John's careful dissection of jazz drumming is such a treasure. got to hear him with the Village Vanguard Monday night big band in 2020. i also saw the Ellington band around 1967. i always remember Sam Woodyard's bombs off that 22 inch bass. wow! boom!! single depth charges out of nowhere. very exciting accents.
John has really figured out how to make his money. By talking slowly and intentionally, he makes his information accessible to a wide variety of people. So everybody walks away feeling like they were actually taught something, versus being thrown a bunch of technical terms at a rapid pace. Anyone hoping to be a clinician or an instructor would do well to follow Mr. Riley's lead and train themselves to speak slowly and clearly.
Great video:) I learnt a lot of coordination skills based on John's books along withn a lot of other concept books. But I would recommend to listen to a lot of bigband music Duke and Count B. Because if you listen to a good piano players left hand or a guitarist syncopated combing style it would somehow relate to the horns and brass of a big band. And then you just need to have a fast responds time to make your comping sound together with the pianoplayer´s left hand as a condensed bigbiand. - Thereby taking the secrets out of comping and what to play:)
I'd guess 20 and 22 K. Con Renaissance rides or Philly Joe Jones, hi hats look like some unlathed Ks, maybe some dry variation, or potentially prototypes.
I think he's wrong about bass players. I think the heavy four on the floor was because the bass was often drowned out by the brass sections and was needed to keep the tempo together.
Riley does state that Chapin said that not all bass players were "trusted" by band leaders until they played better and had better amplification. Both statements are quite accurate. My grandfather was a musician and instructor starting back in the early 1920s, and my father was a bassist and instructor who did his first professional gig in 1941. They were both highly sought-after musicians and teachers in the New England area. The electric bass had not yet been invented, nor had upright bass pickups, and bass amps had not yet been developed either. As a result, many bassists went unheard in the large big bands as you contend, and as a result of being inaudible, many bassists could tend to be someone who simply "thumped," in a percussive way, on a muddy-sounding instrument. Oftentimes, they were hired because they could sing or were good "frontmen/MCs." They were often known as "wall-kickers," "strap-hangers," or "Johnny-One-Note." It really wasn't until amplification arrived and improved, that many of these bassists had to improve (because now their bad notes could be heard!), and drummers then lightened up on the bass drum. In addition, "Swing Era" music was the "pop" dance music of the day, so that a steady, loud, four-in-the-floor bass drum volume was important in driving the band in those large dance halls since the bass player could not be heard (also remember that the upright bass was replacing the tuba back then). With the advent of the Bebop era, the music was being played by much smaller combos in much smaller, more intimate venues. I am a drummer who is old enough to have played gigs with guys from that era who were indeed "wall-kickers." Mind you, my father was from that era, and he developed into an excellent musician, but there were so many gigs back then that bassists were in short supply (they always have been), that poor/mediocre players could also get gigs (especially if they could sing) and many, not all, were not really "trusted" by band leaders.
huh I allways thought it was just lack of amplification but stand up bass being a new instrument from jazz and people being new to it makes sense like they could play but wouldn't have been able to master it like piano or the wind instruments
John wasn't saying they 'all' not great time keeper's.. I've played bass all my life - 60 now and play drum's. I think my bass playing has taught me to keep great time.
John's careful dissection of jazz drumming is such a treasure. got to hear him with the Village Vanguard Monday night big band in 2020. i also saw the Ellington band around 1967. i always remember Sam Woodyard's bombs off that 22 inch bass. wow! boom!! single depth charges out of nowhere. very exciting accents.
John has really figured out how to make his money. By talking slowly and intentionally, he makes his information accessible to a wide variety of people. So everybody walks away feeling like they were actually taught something, versus being thrown a bunch of technical terms at a rapid pace. Anyone hoping to be a clinician or an instructor would do well to follow Mr. Riley's lead and train themselves to speak slowly and clearly.
And no jump cuts.
John Riley is not only an extraordinary drummer and musician but a superb educator as well. He's done so much for the drum community.
Love John Riley. Loved his old columns in Moderm Drummer.
Love all John Riley’s books and video demonstrations👍
Sorry to echo what others have said but this series is absolutely awesome John - Thank you Sir.
Great video:) I learnt a lot of coordination skills based on John's books along withn a lot of other concept books. But I would recommend to listen to a lot of bigband music Duke and Count B. Because if you listen to a good piano players left hand or a guitarist syncopated combing style it would somehow relate to the horns and brass of a big band. And then you just need to have a fast responds time to make your comping sound together with the pianoplayer´s left hand as a condensed bigbiand. - Thereby taking the secrets out of comping and what to play:)
so glad this guy's still alive ngl
Great lesson and wonderful sounds !!
GOAT of Bop EDU
Beautiful sound
Can you tell me what your cymbal set up is here…?
They sound like Ks with no definition.
I'd guess 20 and 22 K. Con Renaissance rides or Philly Joe Jones, hi hats look like some unlathed Ks, maybe some dry variation, or potentially prototypes.
What ride cymbal is that?
Nucleotilder
TY
I think he's wrong about bass players. I think the heavy four on the floor was because the bass was often drowned out by the brass sections and was needed to keep the tempo together.
Was taught the same in college
Riley does state that Chapin said that not all bass players were "trusted" by band leaders until they played better and had better amplification. Both statements are quite accurate. My grandfather was a musician and instructor starting back in the early 1920s, and my father was a bassist and instructor who did his first professional gig in 1941. They were both highly sought-after musicians and teachers in the New England area. The electric bass had not yet been invented, nor had upright bass pickups, and bass amps had not yet been developed either. As a result, many bassists went unheard in the large big bands as you contend, and as a result of being inaudible, many bassists could tend to be someone who simply "thumped," in a percussive way, on a muddy-sounding instrument. Oftentimes, they were hired because they could sing or were good "frontmen/MCs." They were often known as "wall-kickers," "strap-hangers," or "Johnny-One-Note." It really wasn't until amplification arrived and improved, that many of these bassists had to improve (because now their bad notes could be heard!), and drummers then lightened up on the bass drum. In addition, "Swing Era" music was the "pop" dance music of the day, so that a steady, loud, four-in-the-floor bass drum volume was important in driving the band in those large dance halls since the bass player could not be heard (also remember that the upright bass was replacing the tuba back then). With the advent of the Bebop era, the music was being played by much smaller combos in much smaller, more intimate venues. I am a drummer who is old enough to have played gigs with guys from that era who were indeed "wall-kickers." Mind you, my father was from that era, and he developed into an excellent musician, but there were so many gigs back then that bassists were in short supply (they always have been), that poor/mediocre players could also get gigs (especially if they could sing) and many, not all, were not really "trusted" by band leaders.
talking bout the bass drum and no cam on the foot!
huh I allways thought it was just lack of amplification but stand up bass being a new instrument from jazz and people being new to it makes sense like they could play but wouldn't have been able to master it like piano or the wind instruments
Jim Riley
Jim Lahey
John lohanne @@QuueenGalaxy
TALK MYSTIFY TALK MAKE MORE OUT OF IT THAN THERE IS KEEP TALKING
NO MYSTERY TO JAZZ DRUMMING
USE FOUR BAR PHRASES
If bass players were that bad, why did the band leaders use them at all if the bass drum drove the band so much
John wasn't saying they 'all' not great time keeper's.. I've played bass all my life - 60 now and play drum's. I think my bass playing has taught me to keep great time.