It's honestly miraculous that Mon Mothma's throwaway deleted scene actress from all the way back in the prequels turned out to be INSANELY CAPABLE AT HER JOB.
The weird thing is ... this explanation works for nearly all actors in Andor. None of them sounded promissing if someone told you about it in advance, but they all just nailed it in the end. Even side characters like Mon Mothmas ISB chauffeur act believable and precise.
@@arneczool6614Andor was filmed in England during Covid when everything was shut down, so even side characters with only a couple of lines are played by out-of-work top English theater actors.
Yup, having Luthen pick apart how Andor exaggerates his life, then rewatching Rogue One and the "I'VE BEEN IN THIS FIGHT SINCE I WAS SIX YEARS OLD" tells me it was Andor stretching the truth for shock value, since it did work on Jyn who didn't know he was lying XD
@@terrified057t4 I actually think the 6 year old comment refers to his real parents apparent death. We see him as a kid without any adults. So something happened prior.
I've noticed that we're seeing a lot of "Andor" vs "Ashoka" after we saw "Andor" vs "Kenobi" and "Andor" vs "Mando saeason 3". To me that clearly shows where the benchmark is.
Ngl andor was good but I didn’t vibe with it as much as kenobi and Ahsoka. Maybe I just like force sensitive action and legends references? Idk probably. Andor wasn’t my favorite but it was still good.
If we all liked the same thing. Life would be unbearable. No need to apologise for what u enjoy. From what I see Ashoka was a cool animated character with cool weird snaky head, hair thing. But in the live action it looks like a plastic helmet and she is slow in fighting, wooden and dull speaking. The fault is not the actors. Filoni writes worse dialogue than George Lucas on a bad day. George’s films had a few poor lines each. Filoni’s shows have the occasional good lines. Andor is flawless.
Eh, I think filoni’s done well in maintaining lore and incorporating Star Wars legends. Andor was good but it felt kinda like a “common man in Star Wars” sort of thing. It’s Star Wars without the fantasy element which is one of the things I enjoy the most about Star Wars (especially ancient Sith lore). Though I did still like Andor and will be watching the next season.@@ZanderFoulner
Luthen has so much depth to his character. And or was such a pleasant surprise that really boosts the Original Trilogy and shows how competent the Empire is supposed to be.
Ahsoka: written by an animator turned writer used to writing 25min episodes of a kid friendly cartoon. Andor: written by award winning dramatists the Gilroy bros.,(Tony- Bourne series, Dan - Nightcrawler)Beau Willimon (House of Cards, Ides of March) Stephen Schiff (The Americans) all of whom know how to write political and espionage thrillers with deep character development. It's glaringly obvious why Andor is better.
To be fair, Filoni actually did a good job with Ahsoka towards the end of the Clone Wars. He was also involved with writing Baylan Skoll. However, these accomplishments have nothing against the skill of Tony Gilroy. 😂
Filoni has the same issue as George Lucas. Both are good writers and proven themselves to write great characters and stories, but give them too much creative control and it starts failing apart
Thrawn's tactics were so cool in the Thrawn Trilogy books. I was kinda disappointed by how his strategy in Ahsoka was "I know about my enemies" "Lets put mines where they are coming from"
Her entire character was assassinated as soon as she spoke in mandalorian season 2. She was a character who saw the flaws of the jedi and walked away from them...Having her return to those very same values that almost executed her for a crime she didn't commit is INSANE. And what's even more insane is that this could've been a compelling arc connected to her experience with fighting Anakin/Vader in rebels. But they don't tackle these layers and complexity at all. Ahsoka was once such a colorful and significant character and now she's lost all her depth.
Didn’t help that Thrawn’s tactical genius was “fire all the canons at this open field they need to cross to get to us” and to overcome his tactical genius our heroes just needed to… run across said field.
I think part of the problem with Ahsoka is that Dawson plays her the exact same way as she does in The Mandalorian. Which works for that show as when she shows up, she's basically the Yoda of the story-- the wise mentor/guide that helps the protagonist on their way. That kind of portrayal works for a show where she's not the focus, but when your main character is just a flat board that crosses her arms and occasionally does something that looks cool, it really just sucks the life out of the show.
The issue is with Mando (s2-3) and Ahsoka are they push the season to be 1 long movie so you have episodes where they are just walking in a forest and nothing happens. In a feature that’s 3 hours long… no problem but a tv needs peaks and valleys in every episode. If you watch andor, every episode plays out this way. Every episode or block or episodes have a self contained story arc. Then the episodes push the season arc forward.
I always felt that a lot of the issue with Mando seasons 2-3, Ahsoka, and even BoBF was that they tried to fit what could have been multiple seasons of television into one season that didn't give enough time to properly set up and tell it. It felt like they only had one season to tell their story or, like in Mando season 3, needed to speedrun the plot to prepare for a future movie.
Ahsoka takes its time slowly, to ONLY to build up to big moments. Whereas Andor has slow parts, but they serve a much stronger presence. with ahsoka a majority of the characters when we see them is merely on a surface level, like they're just being flatly acted. Baylan, shin and huyang were some of the only performances that felt like the actors got more invested in their portrayal. Another major problem I have is when Ahsoka goes gangbusters on those big events, it all ends up feeling underwhelming, empty and unfinished. It also sucks there's a missing half to the story. Single seasons of a show should strive to be self sufficient, where there’s never a guaranteed continuation. this felt like no matter what, it’d end abruptly with an unsatisfying cliffhanger Andor treats me well every time I watch it, always finding something new to like. Ahsoka doesn't have the same weight
Yeah, Andor could just not have a second season and generally it would serve as a good prequel/origin story to Cassian in Rogue One. We see how he went from a hustler to a rebel willing to die for the cause. Thank god we at least got a second season confirmed...
The whole "Ahsoka is just stoic now" thing just twists nickers raw because i thought so myself for a long time. However when she's - as far as she can tell - face to face with Anakin again, she has the most bafflingly inappropraite reaction possible. This man shaped and guided SO much of her life and worldviews, and became _such_ a trusted figure, and eventually she was hit with the shocking revelation that he now stood not only in opposition to everything she valued, but he was the _leader_ of this opposition and *actively trying to kill her!* I don't give a fuck how many times you've been in dangerous situations before, a betrayal on that level that you can only even live to process because you were plucked by means you don't understand, away from certain death at the hands of your betrayer... That would leave DEEP scars. And not only that, the last time she saw him was when she was pulled away from him to the seeming safety of that strange place, but now suddenly she is pulled back there to the very man who nearly killed her! And we don't even so much as see the confusion, let alone the powerful mix of emotions we would see from this. In fact she just regards him _kindly_ and the characters both not just act, but _behave entirely_ as if that whole betrayal and nearly killing her thing never happened. If Ahsoka can't be bothered to care about _that_ I cannot _possibly_ bring myself to care about anything she says, does, reacts to, or even happens to her. Not that anything of consequence ever _would_ because we've seen people survive impalement by weapons that cut through blast doors meant to hold off artillery. Fuck this show. I was watching the show brain completely off trying to enjoy it because my buddy is such a diehard fan of all the stuff, and it took until episode 6 or so for me to finally realize why I was bored out of my skull, and its because it shows you unequivocally that the writing will shield these characters from _everything._ No physical, emotional, or psychological consequence will ever befall them no matter what. This was further compounded by that mildly pleased reaction Sabine and Ezra had to finally seeing one another. As if it was just a chance meeting of a friend you hadn't seen in a couple years, meanwhile she put the entire galaxy and everything she _ever fought for_ at risk just for the _chance_ to see this man again. I cannot fathom why anyone cares about this show. But if anyone feels like explaining to me, i genuinely would love to hear. Especially if you're the kind of person to finish reading a comment like this.
To be clear she betrayed him first. He always stood up for her and went out of his way to clear her name. You seem to forget all the times he rescued her from some bad situations. Why should she have a negative reaction to seeing him? She had all the similar criticisms of the Jedi that he did...the only difference he actually did something about. Now of course the methods might have been excessive but the end result was what a lot of people wanted...a reformed Jedi Order. Also Vader was not responsible for Imperial policy, his area of responsibility was the military. He didn't come up with the Tarkin doctrine which was at it's heart a set of political beliefs one man developed on his home planet at 16.
@@JustTheFacts45 When did she betray him? All I remember is her leaving the order, which I absolutely cannot consider a betrayal considering the context. If she left the order in the midst of a battle she was supposed to participate in and endangered others or led to their deaths, then yes that kind of desertion is a betrayal. Aside from that I have to say that saving someone at prior points in time means nothing when you suddenly fully intend to be the one to end their life. Actually that's a lie. The prior saving in fact serves to make the betrayal so much more shocking and cut so much deeper. Proving that even someone you could at not just one but SEVERAL points save your life can now suddenly turn against you with full intent to kill and won't even do you the most _basic_ of courtesies of showing you who they are. In the context it went down in, it clearly displayed that their relationship to you meant absolutely nothing _or_ they at least have A LOT of explaining to do. However, Ahsoka just didn't care. No explanation was given nor asked for. They didn't even try to catch up on anything important that it seems like they should have cared about due to their extensive history with one another.
Fun video, and yes Andor needs to be celebrated. Andor is an achievement, it’s prestige content, and even The Empire Strikes Back can’t claim that designation. News that season 2 is delayed till 2025 is on the one hand painful, but on the other hand, knowing it’s the final season, I’m loving living with the anticipation. Damn, Andor is that good. I like Ashoka as a character, the show was just empty. There’s room for lighter Errol Flynnesque, stand arms akimbo, laugh/yell “Ha HA!” and jump off something entertainment, but Ashoka is just a fail.
Tony gilroy said he used the pandemic extra time to rewrite the script for season 1. Not saying that was the reason for success, but let’s be honest it probably helped a lot to refine the show. Take as much time as you need for season 2 Mr gilroy, please.
I also gotta say I am really impressed that not only were you brave enough to watch all of Ahsoka, you watched it *twice.* I was so bored I stopped after episode six. My husband gave me a recap and I don't regret not finishing it. I also liked Sabine in Rebels, though she was never my favorite. I really hated her in Ahsoka.
When you realise Ahsoka is a live season of the animated Rebels, then it explains all the decisions around story, production, and tone. Through that lens, it is good. Andor, however, is a through a lens we have never experienced in Star Wars films or TV - intelligent, complex, adult writing aimed at adults. It’s real connection to the original trilogy is it’s focus on characters. Something we haven’t really seen since the original trilogy with the exception of, surprise surprise, Rogue One.
first, that edit at the end was hilarious. second, i agree with most everything that you said and i especially want to emphasize the point you made about the collaborative effort of filmmaking. there are many many things that made Andor so good, but the root for those reasons is that the showrunner, Tony Gilroy, truly understands this. he understands that he needs good creative professionals from various backgrounds in order to make something worthwhile. if you’ve read or watched any interviews with him, the man can only ever talk about how your film is only as good as they people who work on it with you and that any ego needs to be deflated and packed away. i also think this is part of the issue with the decline of disney and disney+- true giants of creativity in the industry have no desire to go work for the people that Disney have, or just with Disney in general. It’s a talent brain-drain. Diego Luna said in an interview that he believed that they would not have been able to gather the cast and crew for Andor if both for Tony- not just because he has the hook ups, but because Gilroy’s involvement not only incentivized actors who were initially resistant to being in a SW project, but also because they just wanted to work with him and didn’t need truck loads of money to be convinced. So, yeah, sorry to ramble on but it’s a subject i’ve been pretty interested in ever since Andor premiered. The gulf in quality between Andor and the rest of Disney Star Wars is basically an ocean and the mystery behind that contradiction baffles me. Great video! Subscribed.
Luthen is such a compelling character - Skarsgard was BORN for this role. He really walks the line of being somewhat unbelievable. If you gave those lines to another actor, they could come off as way over the top, but he finds a way to make you believe that he is real, and he really is a ruthless badass.
How does this video not have dozens of times more likes? Totally nailed the struggle of the Star Wars universe now. Andor was transcendent and I'm genuinely excited for a second (and I believe final) season of it, but I couldn't even get excited for Ahsoka after the absolute disaster that was Kenobi.
For the MVP of Ahsoka, I'll say it is Huyang. While Shin is runner up, I feel her appeal is mainly in her potential (much like Baylan). Nothing has ruined her character so far, cause we've seen so little of said character. But Disney could easily squander that in season 2. Meanwhile Huyang repeatedly proves to be wise and knowledgable, and boxes another robot (which I did not realize I wanted in Star Wars till that scene).
Also, even if you may not like his character, I feel like we have to give props to the character who played Ezra. Because he really nailed it. He has the same mannerisms, the same posture and movement and general air of mischief. He even sounded like him somehow. He looked exactly how I'd imagine a real-life, older Ezra Bridger would look. So kudos to the casting director for that pick.
Yeah, Balon and Shin were definitely the best parts of the show. He had this air of dignity about him, like a well-spoken knight. You really get the feeling he grew up with the Jedi and then defected. And it's reflected in his armor, which I loved! He and Shin looked more like medieval than many of the other jedi we see throughout the series, it was a cool look. Also, that one inquisitor that was like, made of gas??? His costume was sick as hell, what a shame he wasn't in the show longer.
They did a big build up for thrawn in Ashoka and the new republic scenes I felt were important as we see how corrupt it is but also how mon mothma is terrified upon his return. And if you’ve seen any of the marvel stuff recently you can see how bad things can be when Disney rushes
Filoni's take to writing dramatic: stuff as many drawn-out action sequences as possible in every episode! (So much suspense!, 🤮) I literally felt no stakes in all the constant over-dramatized action sequences. I lost count how many he crammed in the finale, and the zombie troopers were the most ridiculous thing ever! On a positive note, I agree Ivanna's Shin was the most compelling and sold on performance and character by far! ...and Andor is Shawshank level re-watchable master work!
its the little things that add up, for example. Mons daughter in wishing to annoy her mother by embracing the old ways was the catalyst that allowed Mon to hide her shady activities.
I just binge watched this for the first time this weekend. Wow! Blew me away. You've described it's atmosphere and, well, everything perfectly. I was feeling some real stresses through this!
In a Word: maturity. Andor is a more mature show tackling mature and more complex themes. Ahsoka is all flash and no substance and further proof Filoni needs to stick with directing animation. Ripping off samurai movies is not the way to make a compelling story. Andor is everything I have ever wanted out of Star Wars, it’s grounded, tangible, nuanced, intelligent, and respectful. Just the cinematography sets it apart from all other Star Wars media today.
Maybe Ahsoka and Sabine could’ve been more interesting if Sabine did die and Ahsoka found it rather difficult to mentor people around her and look out for them, rather than it being the other way around, or her just looking after herself.
@@ianalicando3548 Lightsaber continuity has been broken for a long time, unfortunately. As a starting writer myself, I do get attached to my own characters and I have predetermined who will die and who won’t. Sometimes I change my mind a bit on the latter demographic. I think you shouldn’t riddle many stories with death, unless that’s among the main appeals of the genre, but not letting go of your creative children at all can ruin the stakes.
@@cobraglatiator Barely surviving a nearly fatal wound can be a good plot point. Or a character might take a whole season or something to recover properly. (GoT spoiler alert)… Part of what really bugs me about Jon Snow’s resurrection. He should’ve been more shook by the fact that he literally died following betrayal.
Andor reminded me of all the reasons I fell in love with star wars. No Skywalker bs. It was so cool to see all these different planets and places. Star wars has an ENTIRE GALAXY to play with and for the first time we have some new planets and species. I will say I'm glad there's no Skywalker or them but I do still enjoy someone that has force powers or a light saber. Not as a main character, at least in this time period. I really really really wish they would just STOP making content in the Skywalker saga years... it would be soooo cook to see something like a thousand years before Anakin or the very beginning of the sith and the jedi. There is literally millenia, an entire galaxy and trillions of possibilities for planets and species and mysteries. I dream of a stand alone movie depicting the Sith beginnings. That has the ability to be interesting, exciting and legit scary. But of course Disney bought it so now we will never get anything other than child friendly happy stories where no one ever dies. Thats why Andor is so great cause despite it being in the same Era as everything we've already seen, we know how he dies but he is so removed from the galaxy we've seen time and time again that it doesn't matter because there are so many possibilities for what his story can be. While thankfully avoiding anything Skywalker and jedi. Lol P.s. Qui Gon probably went on a youngling massacre after he saw Sabine survive that stab. 😂😂
You might not have hated Ahsoka, but I legitimately did. It was so slow to develop, the writing was awful, the characters were generally stiff, and the actual plot events that DID happen were either contrived or unimportant. One thing I noticed that really got me thinking, though, was the use of long shots. As in, a lot of shots just kinda hung there, and it felt like someone trying to parrot artsy films without understanding why those films are artsy. The idea that a lot of good things are slow, take time to develop, have shots that linger, etc... and then just trying to reverse engineer something "good" by copying those elements without understanding the purposes they serve in their original contexts. The lingering shots and scenes in Ahsoka didn't develop anything, usually didn't even reinforce anything, didn't highlight subtle queues, they were just lingering.
True. A lot of filmmakers don't understand the point of long shots. I've been meaning to make a video about that very subject, but ya know... I'm lazy. Thanks for watching!
Just a small pointer. Outside of the Ahsoka show, Sabine was a character that had a less than average execution of her arc. For those not daunted by the cliche, Sabine is a typical runaway, its why her friendship with the ghost crew and Ezra in particular that helped her complete the arc is so important to her. If wrote correctly it would show her emotional state changing as the chances of reuniting the family, as it were, get higher. Also the while force connection is bullshit, everything else does have genuine connections to her story and character.
I have long stopped watching Star Wars stuff, but a guy said "dude, give Andor a chance!" I did, and it blew me away. To the point where I gave other stuff a chance too, but stopped that mistake quickly. Andor is special. Other stuff is not.
Would be nice to see a story breakdown of The Old Republic Cinematics, not sure if such a thing is really possible since each scene is pretty disconnected from the other scenes, but would be interesting to hear your takes on them.
Funny story: We were supposed to do a podcast with another RUclipsr to talk about KOTOR, but it never worked out. Maybe a video essay is the way to go? 🤔
Great video - couldn't get through Ahsoka but hadn't analysed why. Agree that Andor is the GOAT TV series. Now going to search your channel for other Star Wars goodness
Well, Andor is a masterpiece, Ahsoka is a wasted oportunity that ended up as random mediocricy, and BookOfBobba and Kenoby are crap ^^ (And also just a wasted oportunity)
I think your observations on both shows and the franchise in general are spot on. Disney clearly doesn't have a clue what to do with Star Wars. There are too many "fans" in command positions to produce anything fresh or interesting, it seems. Ahsoka had so much potential but just died a slow death by 1000 inexplicably poor creative choices. And Andor is, for me as well, the only worthwhile Star Wars show on Disney Plus.
I enjoyed ahsoka. But one thing i will say is that i missed a week of the show here and there and had to catch up. Andor i was counting the days between episodes.
Dear Disney, if you brought in Tony Gilroy to fix Rogue One (and he added Vader in the end) and he also made this amazing show then maybe why not give him a TRILOGY???!!! Doh! Disney: nah, we’ll give Falloni a movie instead. Star Wars fans: uggghh!!!
It is quite rare and refreshing to find someone with negative criticism of star wars and the like without it devolving into some current trend ideological projectionism, just honest opinions and carefully thought out critique. Also like that even though you set up a comparison between 2 shows (which are rather different in execution) you didn't end up pointing the finger at separate scenes and goinngg ; "This good, This bad!" Keep it up.
What a fun video! Loved Andor, didn't care much for Ahsoka. They needed to bring everyone up to speed with the show, not just continue from Rebels. Sabine dying would have been that moment in Andor where he shoots the dude in the face. Then we wouldn't have to put up with any other stupid stuff Sabine does.
I'm not particularly excited about Dave Filoni taking over, he just seems to want to make everything an extension of the Clone Wars, which most people haven't watched and I personally didn't get into. Every show he's been involved in has just been 'look it's Cad Bane', 'look it's Ezra Whathisname', 'look it's Ahsoka' instead of making something good and original. A lot like Marvel, Star Wars seem to be going down the trend of shoehorning in fan service as a crutch for uninteresting story, and just like Marvel there are a very vocal group who eat this shit up and encourage the situation to get worse.
Great video! I agree with you for the most part but I found the series The Clone Wars more visually appealing than the pilot. Yeah the characters were kinda weird looking sometimes but it has a unique aesthetic, I don't find it ugly and I loved the series. Also the political element was explored a lot in that show considering it was mainly made for kids haha
“No one cared what Mon Mothma was doing before sh*t kicked off”. I did! I wanted to know more about Mon Mothma after her appearance in ROTJ because she seemed interesting even in that one brief scene she had in the movie. BTW, do we ever find out about those poor Bothans who died getting intel for the rebellion? Why didn’t they make a “Star Wars: Bothans” movie?
So glad it was pointed out tje the treatment of the Sabine character. It littaraly stalled the series from the very first episode. It felt like the writers wanted it all to littaraly be about Sabine but realized that was the least interesting backstory of the Rebels, so they titled it Ahsoka to draw in the fans then did a bait a switch. Sad.
It's a shake-your-head-in-wonder concept that the animated reunion between Ahsoka and Rex in Rebels conveyed far more emotion than any of the reunions in Ahsoka. And let's not dare to compare those to the reunion of Cassian and Brasso in Andor.
Just tangenting into Willow for a sec, Gradon Hastur was actually my favorite character. He started out as a typical weedy nebbish, but revealed a lot of depth and heart as the series went on. The only reason I was at all upset there would be no season two was because I would never find out what happened to him.
Fair enough. I just thought his arc to becoming a sorcerer cheapened Alora's journey. If the show just followed Alora, Willow, Ruby Cruz and Erin Kellyman (I forget their character names) I would've been satisfied. A few too many characters and storylines for my liking. Thanks fee watching, btw
@@drunkbanthas Hard agree on too many characters! God only knows what they thought they were doing with that. I get what you're saying about Hastur's magic cheapening Alora's journey, but I have to admit I never felt that. I just thought it was really neat that this sweet weirdo actually had so much potential. I also loved the idea that Elora was a natural but too anxious to allow herself her real power, whereas Hastur was working his ass off to get to the same place. I thought they were really compatible that way. And hey, you're welcome! Good channel.
Stellen, Serkis, Mon mothma lady. What more can I say The scene that made andor for me, was when the empire laid out their plan on aldani, and how they systematically crush a culture. Not through violence but just homogenization. Cutting them off from their customs
I'm 51. I saw A new hope in a Drive in with my parents. I lived the Star Wars consuming life. It always amused me when people say "Andor doesn't look like Star Wars." Because to people who lived the original trilogy in real time Andor looks EXACTLY like Star Wars. The glossy green naboo prequels and the Cantoby...whatever it's called...new trilogy didn't feel like Star Wars. It was all too glossy, too shiny. Too, pastel mopeds in Fat Book of Boba Fettt. A new hope and Empire were gritty, dirty, industrial, stark, an utilitaian. The color palate was black, white, brown and grey. We didnt't get any green the back half of Jedi on endor. Even Dagobah was mostly brown. Andor is gritty, dirty, industrial, stark, utilitarian. The andor palette is mostly, black, white, brown, grey. Yes there is green too but no pastels. the closest is i the city and house of Mon. but even that is stark and white mostly. Rogue One felt like original Star Wars. Andor actually felt like original Star Wars. I think to younger viewers they lived through bad, glossy, disney star wars. That's what they think it is. So Andor doesn't look like their association. But their association is flawed cause it's not the original. It's not what made Star Wars a household name for more than a decade. If you lived more than a decade fixated on the original trilogy, having it in the new, having it's toys in stores, have it be what made star wars, Andor and Rogue One feel like a trip back to real Star Wars as opposed to younger viewers that think it doesn't feel like Star Wars.
Agreed. Cinematography of Andor is comparable to ESB. I will say that Andor and Rogue One feel a bit more mature than the original trilogy -- which I dig.
Couldn't agree more, good sir. Same thing applies for the writing - people say "Andor just doesn't feel like Star Wars" because it doesn't revolve around cameos and is "too slow" with "too much talking" (god forbid there not be a pew pew every two seconds... god forbid you have to look up from your phone to pay attention to the screen) News flash: Watch a movie from the 70s-80s. It's slower. Lotta "talky talky". That's what makes the action scenes so good. That's why you care. That's Star Wars. Andor feels more like Star Wars than any other show because, above all, original Star Wars was just good filmmaking and character-building. That's it. Doesn't have to be tied down by everything that came before it, or have to set up everything after it. The best form of "Star Wars" that a Star Wars show can be is just to be a good show.. I don't care if it represents "the fandom" (who gives a shit?). Speaking *AS A MASSIVE FAN* the fandom has become an insular cult of mediocre, marketing-driven storytelling. Andor is the best thing to happen to Star Wars since Empire. Remembering that we're here to have a good story told to us, and that's all that bloody matters.
Oh, hell yes! The keen bureaucratic blade of Mon Mothma that we see in Andor is totally missing from Ahsoka. She's played for a fool in Ahsoka. I yearned for a B-plot showing Mon Mothma and maybe even Leia dealing with Empire sympathizers behind the scenes in the senate.
I didn't like Ashokha, but I did like Thrawn - in that he seemed to have good plans, and good contingencies, and then back-up plans for those plans, but all of those failed in the face of perfect plot armor for the heroes. There were some scenes where you could almost feel Thrawn staring through the fourth wall and sighing.
Yep. He looked and sounded the part, so I'm sad he ended up ahsoka instead of another show... A little more serious... Oh well. I'll just pretend the books are canon.
all you kids keep saying andor doesn't look or feel like star wars and my 43 year old ass is over here like. Andor is most like star wars since empire strikes back and theatrical release return of the jedi! Rogue one was close except donny yen photo bombing the whole movie. All these young folk grew up with star wars not being star wars. starting with the special editions. Jedi especially has a completely different tone compared to the theatrical. then the prequels, the remalke/sequels. most of the tv shows.
Yeah, when people say Andor doesn't feel like Star Wars and that it's "boring," I feel like Inigo Montoya. "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."
@@drunkbanthasfacts 😂😂 I’m reading the comments and people are like “I like the flashy” “I like the light sabers” what are they doing the other 60% of the time when their ain’t flash and light sabers they just sleeping thru the rest of it? Andor does such a good job in exploring the rest of the time and diving into the good bad and ugly side of being a rebel
There are a few Disney Star Wars Shows that I've seen more than once and plan to watch again (Mandalorian, Visions) - Andor is included in this circle. Ahsoka isn't. That may change, but as it is now ... with the circle shows the characters intrigued me, in Ahsoka most of them bored or annoyed me.
I'm honestly really glad about the point he made about thrawn. According to the lore he's supposed to be some sort of super tactician, but I honestly can't think of anything remarkable he did in this show or Rebels. The whole studying of a people's art to " learn how they think" ( whole groups of people and their art are monolithic apparently, cuz star wars logic) goes to show just how pretentious, and half baked the character really is. He got his ass kicked by a ragtag group of rebels, then 9 years later failed to do anything impressive once more. Same can be said about the filoniverse as a whole.
Without Andor, Ashoka would probably being praised as an improvement by some people after the lackluster of The Book of Boba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi shows. Even though it didn't reached the level of greatness of The Mandalorian, at least it treated fan favorite characters not as bad as the other two shows. But Andor spoiled many of us and made us realized that Lucasfilm is actually capable of making a spectacular Star Wars show. Which feels more grounded and real while still respecting George Lucas' original vision. The existence of Andor also exposed so many flaws in other Star Wars shows, including The Mandalorian. Now we can't see the same Star Wars anymore if it doesn't have the same treatment like Andor does.
I wonder if some of the difference between Andor and the other live action Star Wars show is due to merchandising expectations. I don't see any cute aliens or droids pushed into Andor, but there are scenes in Mandalorian, Boba Fett, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ahsoka and Acolyte that I assume are only there to sell merch.
Selling merchandise has definitely been always been a priority for Star Wars and you're right: there isn't really any cute stuff in Andor you can sell to 5 year olds
Ahsoka story just dragged on too long without much happening. Dialogue was often wooden between Ahsoka and Sabine. Actors are better than the writing given them. Not Filoni's best work. Animated Rebels is much better in general.
Yes. It's a shake-your-head-in-wonder concept that the animated reunion between Ahsoka and Rex in Rebels conveyed far more emotion than any of the reunions in Ahsoka. And let's not dare to compare those to the reunion of Cassian and Brasso in Andor.
Oh cool. Mon Mothma os interesting but I never thought where she came from any more than Grand Admiral Tarkin. Maybe we need a Tarkin series? Ian McKellen fancast?
Andor did mention Emperor Palpatine and showed clone and stormtroopers, but that’s just about it for nostalgic callbacks. Ahsoka on the other hand, is riddled with them - Hayden’s appearance as Anakin takes the prize. I’ll give Lucasfilm a tip, stop giving Dave Filoni big projects.
Those weren't so much nostalgic callbacks as they were plot necessities (although did you realize that was Wullf Yularen who mentioned Palpatine...the only cameo of a known figure in the show, a figure from A New Hope, at that). How could there be a story about rebellion against the Empire with no mention of the Emperor or the primary shock troops of the Empire? That would be too much of an _obvious_ effort to leave them out. OTOH, the galaxy is big, so it's not at all difficult for a story of ordinary people not to include Jedi.
Mr D. Banthas, I lov your analysis of "Andor" and found it very instructive but some of the shots flicker on screen and off again so fast that even a Jedi's reflexes cannot keep up with [like at 4:53 there's a split second text box about 'The Internet Reacts to The Weeknd Mispronouncing 'Carte Blanche' on The Idol']. it took me 3 attempts to pause on this graphic before I could actually read the text. For us oldies who watched Star Wars as 8 year olds, who are now mid 50 ish, we need a bit more time to be able to read such stuff - otherwise we feel like we are missing the points you are making. btw what was the point you were making? Never mind. anyway thanks again and glad you liked Andor as much as we do.
Thanks for watching 👀. A little inside baseball: The RUclips algorithm likes it when there are moments in your video that people rewatch. In this video there were a few spots where I wanted to create some moments where people stop and say "Wait. What was that?!" "Carte Blanche" was an inside joke for anyone who has had the misfortune of seeing The Idol (2022). My other videos aren't quite as jumpy. There are also some quick clips of Mary Elizabeth Winstead's butt from Ahsoka every once in a while when I say "But..." just cause -- ya know. Butt jokes are funny. lol Thanks again for watching.
22:52 that's actually kinda wrong. Leigh Brackett received credits for ESB only due to George's decision to honor her after she died. In fact, pretty much none of what she wrote made it into the movie, as it was all rewritten by George.
@@drunkbanthas Her original script is available online. It's an interesting read. There are some things taken from it. It does start on a snow planet, though Hoth is the name of another planet they go to.
We're in the prequels situation again where an imaginative guy with a lot of passion for star wars but very obvious limitations in some of the disciplines that go into making good cinema is having an auteur like influence to the detriment of the work. Except that guy isn't the brain behind the most iconic fictional universe outside of middle earth, it's his cowboy hat wearing intern who made some decent cartoons. I'm sure the ideas guys and canon nerds at LucasFilm had their say in making sure Andor fit the continuity, but it was written by someone who is first and foremost an expert in their craft.
The fight scenes in Ahsoka were good for the most part, but I wish Sabine had used her mando gadgets more (and didn't become a jedi, and didn't completely lose her growth from rebels). And while I like both Sabine and Ahsoka in Rebels and The Clone Wars, I agree Ahsoka was not very good
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
It's honestly miraculous that Mon Mothma's throwaway deleted scene actress from all the way back in the prequels turned out to be INSANELY CAPABLE AT HER JOB.
Right?! Such unexpectedly great casting.
Video is great, good charisma, funny. New favorite ytber rn @@drunkbanthas
Aww shucks. Thanks for the kind words. 😁
The weird thing is ... this explanation works for nearly all actors in Andor. None of them sounded promissing if someone told you about it in advance, but they all just nailed it in the end. Even side characters like Mon Mothmas ISB chauffeur act believable and precise.
@@arneczool6614Andor was filmed in England during Covid when everything was shut down, so even side characters with only a couple of lines are played by out-of-work top English theater actors.
… also … Andor even makes Rogue One BETTER. If you rewatch it now, you suddenly recognise so much more depth in many places, its just amazing.
Now when Melshi dies it’s more devastating than some random named Rebel.
Yup, having Luthen pick apart how Andor exaggerates his life, then rewatching Rogue One and the "I'VE BEEN IN THIS FIGHT SINCE I WAS SIX YEARS OLD" tells me it was Andor stretching the truth for shock value, since it did work on Jyn who didn't know he was lying XD
@@terrified057t4 I actually think the 6 year old comment refers to his real parents apparent death. We see him as a kid without any adults. So something happened prior.
Andor in S1 E9: “Nobody’s listening!”
Andor in Rogue one after sending the plans, to Jyn, “Do you think, anybody is listening?”
☺
I've noticed that we're seeing a lot of "Andor" vs "Ashoka" after we saw "Andor" vs "Kenobi" and "Andor" vs "Mando saeason 3".
To me that clearly shows where the benchmark is.
Ngl andor was good but I didn’t vibe with it as much as kenobi and Ahsoka. Maybe I just like force sensitive action and legends references? Idk probably. Andor wasn’t my favorite but it was still good.
@@Darth_Iblis_Goetiapotato brain cant handle no dopamine glow sticks on screen
I didn’t dislike Andor I just didn’t rank it as top 1 show…
If we all liked the same thing. Life would be unbearable. No need to apologise for what u enjoy.
From what I see Ashoka was a cool animated character with cool weird snaky head, hair thing. But in the live action it looks like a plastic helmet and she is slow in fighting, wooden and dull speaking. The fault is not the actors. Filoni writes worse dialogue than George Lucas on a bad day.
George’s films had a few poor lines each. Filoni’s shows have the occasional good lines.
Andor is flawless.
Eh, I think filoni’s done well in maintaining lore and incorporating Star Wars legends. Andor was good but it felt kinda like a “common man in Star Wars” sort of thing. It’s Star Wars without the fantasy element which is one of the things I enjoy the most about Star Wars (especially ancient Sith lore). Though I did still like Andor and will be watching the next season.@@ZanderFoulner
Luthen is in my top 5 favorite SW characters, he really puts the war in Star Wars
Oh yeah, he' s a great character.
Luthen is amazing.
@@mrcat3493
Luthen has so much depth to his character. And or was such a pleasant surprise that really boosts the Original Trilogy and shows how competent the Empire is supposed to be.
Ahsoka: written by an animator turned writer used to writing 25min episodes of a kid friendly cartoon.
Andor: written by award winning dramatists the Gilroy bros.,(Tony- Bourne series, Dan - Nightcrawler)Beau Willimon (House of Cards, Ides of March) Stephen Schiff (The Americans) all of whom know how to write political and espionage thrillers with deep character development.
It's glaringly obvious why Andor is better.
🙌🙌 just lots of fact dropping right here!
Yeah, Andor has some serious heavy hitters on their roster Fer sure
To be fair, Filoni actually did a good job with Ahsoka towards the end of the Clone Wars. He was also involved with writing Baylan Skoll. However, these accomplishments have nothing against the skill of Tony Gilroy. 😂
Filoni has the same issue as George Lucas. Both are good writers and proven themselves to write great characters and stories, but give them too much creative control and it starts failing apart
rebels is actually solid though. Very nice as long you as you go into understanding it's designed for kids, and even then. Very underrated.
Thrawn's tactics were so cool in the Thrawn Trilogy books. I was kinda disappointed by how his strategy in Ahsoka was "I know about my enemies" "Lets put mines where they are coming from"
Haha Yeah, I heard Thrawn was a G in the books.
You can't write a character smarter than their writer.
Ahsoka was filoni and favreau, plus we haven’t seen his full tactics yet ik this era as he hasn’t had a proper naval engagement with another fleet
The problem with Ahsoka is that the Ahsoka in Ahsoka is not the same Ahsoka that was in The Clone Wars or even in Rebels.
I felt the same way
Yup, exactly. Filoni took the Kurosawa wise samurai type of character and painted Ahsoka over it. Bro forgot his OC's entire character...
Her entire character was assassinated as soon as she spoke in mandalorian season 2. She was a character who saw the flaws of the jedi and walked away from them...Having her return to those very same values that almost executed her for a crime she didn't commit is INSANE.
And what's even more insane is that this could've been a compelling arc connected to her experience with fighting Anakin/Vader in rebels. But they don't tackle these layers and complexity at all.
Ahsoka was once such a colorful and significant character and now she's lost all her depth.
@@Irose_YTBE Yeah insanely surprising Dave did this to his OC lol, bro became a weeaboo and slaughtered his girl in the process XD
@@terrified057t4 Probably because ahsoka isn't his OC and he just took credit from a story made by someone better than him
Didn’t help that Thrawn’s tactical genius was “fire all the canons at this open field they need to cross to get to us” and to overcome his tactical genius our heroes just needed to… run across said field.
To be honest, Andor is the only reason why I still do care about new SW releases
100%. When I watched Andor and discovered who Gilroy was, I was like please give this guy the keys to the Star Wars universe. He could fix it all.
Yeah. Forget Dave Filonious and his Ahsoka wank.
Imagine if Tony Gilroy made Boba Fett-
I think part of the problem with Ahsoka is that Dawson plays her the exact same way as she does in The Mandalorian. Which works for that show as when she shows up, she's basically the Yoda of the story-- the wise mentor/guide that helps the protagonist on their way. That kind of portrayal works for a show where she's not the focus, but when your main character is just a flat board that crosses her arms and occasionally does something that looks cool, it really just sucks the life out of the show.
After watching Andor all of the other star wars shows felt like live action cartoons.
The issue is with Mando (s2-3) and Ahsoka are they push the season to be 1 long movie so you have episodes where they are just walking in a forest and nothing happens. In a feature that’s 3 hours long… no problem but a tv needs peaks and valleys in every episode. If you watch andor, every episode plays out this way. Every episode or block or episodes have a self contained story arc. Then the episodes push the season arc forward.
I always felt that a lot of the issue with Mando seasons 2-3, Ahsoka, and even BoBF was that they tried to fit what could have been multiple seasons of television into one season that didn't give enough time to properly set up and tell it. It felt like they only had one season to tell their story or, like in Mando season 3, needed to speedrun the plot to prepare for a future movie.
Ahsoka takes its time slowly, to ONLY to build up to big moments. Whereas Andor has slow parts, but they serve a much stronger presence. with ahsoka a majority of the characters when we see them is merely on a surface level, like they're just being flatly acted. Baylan, shin and huyang were some of the only performances that felt like the actors got more invested in their portrayal.
Another major problem I have is when Ahsoka goes gangbusters on those big events, it all ends up feeling underwhelming, empty and unfinished. It also sucks there's a missing half to the story. Single seasons of a show should strive to be self sufficient, where there’s never a guaranteed continuation. this felt like no matter what, it’d end abruptly with an unsatisfying cliffhanger
Andor treats me well every time I watch it, always finding something new to like. Ahsoka doesn't have the same weight
🔥🔥🔥 love this analysis
Andor does a slow burn then explodes into action, and pulls that off four times.
Yeah, Andor could just not have a second season and generally it would serve as a good prequel/origin story to Cassian in Rogue One. We see how he went from a hustler to a rebel willing to die for the cause. Thank god we at least got a second season confirmed...
The whole "Ahsoka is just stoic now" thing just twists nickers raw because i thought so myself for a long time. However when she's - as far as she can tell - face to face with Anakin again, she has the most bafflingly inappropraite reaction possible.
This man shaped and guided SO much of her life and worldviews, and became _such_ a trusted figure, and eventually she was hit with the shocking revelation that he now stood not only in opposition to everything she valued, but he was the _leader_ of this opposition and *actively trying to kill her!*
I don't give a fuck how many times you've been in dangerous situations before, a betrayal on that level that you can only even live to process because you were plucked by means you don't understand, away from certain death at the hands of your betrayer... That would leave DEEP scars. And not only that, the last time she saw him was when she was pulled away from him to the seeming safety of that strange place, but now suddenly she is pulled back there to the very man who nearly killed her! And we don't even so much as see the confusion, let alone the powerful mix of emotions we would see from this. In fact she just regards him _kindly_ and the characters both not just act, but _behave entirely_ as if that whole betrayal and nearly killing her thing never happened.
If Ahsoka can't be bothered to care about _that_ I cannot _possibly_ bring myself to care about anything she says, does, reacts to, or even happens to her. Not that anything of consequence ever _would_ because we've seen people survive impalement by weapons that cut through blast doors meant to hold off artillery. Fuck this show.
I was watching the show brain completely off trying to enjoy it because my buddy is such a diehard fan of all the stuff, and it took until episode 6 or so for me to finally realize why I was bored out of my skull, and its because it shows you unequivocally that the writing will shield these characters from _everything._ No physical, emotional, or psychological consequence will ever befall them no matter what.
This was further compounded by that mildly pleased reaction Sabine and Ezra had to finally seeing one another. As if it was just a chance meeting of a friend you hadn't seen in a couple years, meanwhile she put the entire galaxy and everything she _ever fought for_ at risk just for the _chance_ to see this man again.
I cannot fathom why anyone cares about this show. But if anyone feels like explaining to me, i genuinely would love to hear. Especially if you're the kind of person to finish reading a comment like this.
To be clear she betrayed him first. He always stood up for her and went out of his way to clear her name. You seem to forget all the times he rescued her from some bad situations.
Why should she have a negative reaction to seeing him? She had all the similar criticisms of the Jedi that he did...the only difference he actually did something about. Now of course the methods might have been excessive but the end result was what a lot of people wanted...a reformed Jedi Order.
Also Vader was not responsible for Imperial policy, his area of responsibility was the military. He didn't come up with the Tarkin doctrine which was at it's heart a set of political beliefs one man developed on his home planet at 16.
Preach!
@@JustTheFacts45 When did she betray him? All I remember is her leaving the order, which I absolutely cannot consider a betrayal considering the context. If she left the order in the midst of a battle she was supposed to participate in and endangered others or led to their deaths, then yes that kind of desertion is a betrayal.
Aside from that I have to say that saving someone at prior points in time means nothing when you suddenly fully intend to be the one to end their life. Actually that's a lie. The prior saving in fact serves to make the betrayal so much more shocking and cut so much deeper. Proving that even someone you could at not just one but SEVERAL points save your life can now suddenly turn against you with full intent to kill and won't even do you the most _basic_ of courtesies of showing you who they are. In the context it went down in, it clearly displayed that their relationship to you meant absolutely nothing _or_ they at least have A LOT of explaining to do.
However, Ahsoka just didn't care. No explanation was given nor asked for. They didn't even try to catch up on anything important that it seems like they should have cared about due to their extensive history with one another.
Fun video, and yes Andor needs to be celebrated. Andor is an achievement, it’s prestige content, and even The Empire Strikes Back can’t claim that designation. News that season 2 is delayed till 2025 is on the one hand painful, but on the other hand, knowing it’s the final season, I’m loving living with the anticipation. Damn, Andor is that good.
I like Ashoka as a character, the show was just empty. There’s room for lighter Errol Flynnesque, stand arms akimbo, laugh/yell “Ha HA!” and jump off something entertainment, but Ashoka is just a fail.
Tony gilroy said he used the pandemic extra time to rewrite the script for season 1. Not saying that was the reason for success, but let’s be honest it probably helped a lot to refine the show.
Take as much time as you need for season 2 Mr gilroy, please.
"Sabine Wren Season 1" vs "Andor Season 1"
That's the actual title.
Facts 😂😂
I also gotta say I am really impressed that not only were you brave enough to watch all of Ahsoka, you watched it *twice.* I was so bored I stopped after episode six. My husband gave me a recap and I don't regret not finishing it. I also liked Sabine in Rebels, though she was never my favorite. I really hated her in Ahsoka.
Despite my hangup regarding Sabine in the little I saw of Rebels, she did have potential to be a good character in this, but... nah.
When you realise Ahsoka is a live season of the animated Rebels, then it explains all the decisions around story, production, and tone. Through that lens, it is good. Andor, however, is a through a lens we have never experienced in Star Wars films or TV - intelligent, complex, adult writing aimed at adults. It’s real connection to the original trilogy is it’s focus on characters. Something we haven’t really seen since the original trilogy with the exception of, surprise surprise, Rogue One.
Unfortunately it's a shitty season of Rebels then. It completely destroys all of the character growth of two of the main characters.
first, that edit at the end was hilarious.
second, i agree with most everything that you said and i especially want to emphasize the point you made about the collaborative effort of filmmaking. there are many many things that made Andor so good, but the root for those reasons is that the showrunner, Tony Gilroy, truly understands this. he understands that he needs good creative professionals from various backgrounds in order to make something worthwhile. if you’ve read or watched any interviews with him, the man can only ever talk about how your film is only as good as they people who work on it with you and that any ego needs to be deflated and packed away. i also think this is part of the issue with the decline of disney and disney+- true giants of creativity in the industry have no desire to go work for the people that Disney have, or just with Disney in general. It’s a talent brain-drain. Diego Luna said in an interview that he believed that they would not have been able to gather the cast and crew for Andor if both for Tony- not just because he has the hook ups, but because Gilroy’s involvement not only incentivized actors who were initially resistant to being in a SW project, but also because they just wanted to work with him and didn’t need truck loads of money to be convinced.
So, yeah, sorry to ramble on but it’s a subject i’ve been pretty interested in ever since Andor premiered. The gulf in quality between Andor and the rest of Disney Star Wars is basically an ocean and the mystery behind that contradiction baffles me. Great video! Subscribed.
Wow, thanks a lot for the kind words. Yeah, Tony Gilroy is a class act. Love to hear that he plays well with others
I CANT STOP LAUGHTING AT THE "CRUSH ON MON MOTHMA THING".
I'm glad someone finally acknowledged it
Mon Mothma more like Mom Mothma
Luthen is such a compelling character - Skarsgard was BORN for this role. He really walks the line of being somewhat unbelievable. If you gave those lines to another actor, they could come off as way over the top, but he finds a way to make you believe that he is real, and he really is a ruthless badass.
How does this video not have dozens of times more likes? Totally nailed the struggle of the Star Wars universe now. Andor was transcendent and I'm genuinely excited for a second (and I believe final) season of it, but I couldn't even get excited for Ahsoka after the absolute disaster that was Kenobi.
Thanks for watching 👀
For the MVP of Ahsoka, I'll say it is Huyang. While Shin is runner up, I feel her appeal is mainly in her potential (much like Baylan). Nothing has ruined her character so far, cause we've seen so little of said character. But Disney could easily squander that in season 2. Meanwhile Huyang repeatedly proves to be wise and knowledgable, and boxes another robot (which I did not realize I wanted in Star Wars till that scene).
I was so delighted every time he appeared on screen
Also, even if you may not like his character, I feel like we have to give props to the character who played Ezra. Because he really nailed it. He has the same mannerisms, the same posture and movement and general air of mischief. He even sounded like him somehow. He looked exactly how I'd imagine a real-life, older Ezra Bridger would look. So kudos to the casting director for that pick.
Yeah, Balon and Shin were definitely the best parts of the show. He had this air of dignity about him, like a well-spoken knight. You really get the feeling he grew up with the Jedi and then defected. And it's reflected in his armor, which I loved! He and Shin looked more like medieval than many of the other jedi we see throughout the series, it was a cool look. Also, that one inquisitor that was like, made of gas??? His costume was sick as hell, what a shame he wasn't in the show longer.
really sucks to stick with a character like ahsoka through her whole life on screen only for her own dedicated show to be so disappointing
Yeah, this show could've been very different and very... better.
They did a big build up for thrawn in Ashoka and the new republic scenes I felt were important as we see how corrupt it is but also how mon mothma is terrified upon his return. And if you’ve seen any of the marvel stuff recently you can see how bad things can be when Disney rushes
Filoni's take to writing dramatic: stuff as many drawn-out action sequences as possible in every episode! (So much suspense!, 🤮) I literally felt no stakes in all the constant over-dramatized action sequences. I lost count how many he crammed in the finale, and the zombie troopers were the most ridiculous thing ever! On a positive note, I agree Ivanna's Shin was the most compelling and sold on performance and character by far!
...and Andor is Shawshank level re-watchable master work!
Agreed on all points! Shin is the only character I'm excited to see again and that shouldn't be the case. Thanks for watching!
its the little things that add up, for example. Mons daughter in wishing to annoy her mother by embracing the old ways was the catalyst that allowed Mon to hide her shady activities.
I just binge watched this for the first time this weekend. Wow! Blew me away. You've described it's atmosphere and, well, everything perfectly. I was feeling some real stresses through this!
i will never get tired of saying this, they should disregard anything that isn't andor and rebuild star wars on andor's image
In a Word: maturity. Andor is a more mature show tackling mature and more complex themes. Ahsoka is all flash and no substance and further proof Filoni needs to stick with directing animation. Ripping off samurai movies is not the way to make a compelling story. Andor is everything I have ever wanted out of Star Wars, it’s grounded, tangible, nuanced, intelligent, and respectful. Just the cinematography sets it apart from all other Star Wars media today.
So weird that the one show fans have been asking for was meh, and the one no one wanted ended up being one of the best star wars shows made
Maybe Ahsoka and Sabine could’ve been more interesting if Sabine did die and Ahsoka found it rather difficult to mentor people around her and look out for them, rather than it being the other way around, or her just looking after herself.
Too bad Sabine is also Filoni's oc that he can't let go of. Her fakeout death says it all and breaks the rules of how lightsabers work
@@ianalicando3548 Lightsaber continuity has been broken for a long time, unfortunately.
As a starting writer myself, I do get attached to my own characters and I have predetermined who will die and who won’t. Sometimes I change my mind a bit on the latter demographic.
I think you shouldn’t riddle many stories with death, unless that’s among the main appeals of the genre, but not letting go of your creative children at all can ruin the stakes.
at least make it a close call that shakes her. seemingly from the way she recovered there was no point in here getting stabbed at all.
@@cobraglatiator Barely surviving a nearly fatal wound can be a good plot point. Or a character might take a whole season or something to recover properly. (GoT spoiler alert)… Part of what really bugs me about Jon Snow’s resurrection. He should’ve been more shook by the fact that he literally died following betrayal.
@@jarmoliebrand2005 agreed wholly!
Andor reminded me of all the reasons I fell in love with star wars. No Skywalker bs. It was so cool to see all these different planets and places. Star wars has an ENTIRE GALAXY to play with and for the first time we have some new planets and species. I will say I'm glad there's no Skywalker or them but I do still enjoy someone that has force powers or a light saber. Not as a main character, at least in this time period.
I really really really wish they would just STOP making content in the Skywalker saga years... it would be soooo cook to see something like a thousand years before Anakin or the very beginning of the sith and the jedi. There is literally millenia, an entire galaxy and trillions of possibilities for planets and species and mysteries. I dream of a stand alone movie depicting the Sith beginnings. That has the ability to be interesting, exciting and legit scary. But of course Disney bought it so now we will never get anything other than child friendly happy stories where no one ever dies. Thats why Andor is so great cause despite it being in the same Era as everything we've already seen, we know how he dies but he is so removed from the galaxy we've seen time and time again that it doesn't matter because there are so many possibilities for what his story can be. While thankfully avoiding anything Skywalker and jedi. Lol
P.s. Qui Gon probably went on a youngling massacre after he saw Sabine survive that stab. 😂😂
Shin Hottie is the best. saved Ashoka for me.
Ditto. Saw a LOT of people with Shin Hati cosplay at LA Comic Con. Definitely made an impression
You might not have hated Ahsoka, but I legitimately did. It was so slow to develop, the writing was awful, the characters were generally stiff, and the actual plot events that DID happen were either contrived or unimportant. One thing I noticed that really got me thinking, though, was the use of long shots. As in, a lot of shots just kinda hung there, and it felt like someone trying to parrot artsy films without understanding why those films are artsy. The idea that a lot of good things are slow, take time to develop, have shots that linger, etc... and then just trying to reverse engineer something "good" by copying those elements without understanding the purposes they serve in their original contexts. The lingering shots and scenes in Ahsoka didn't develop anything, usually didn't even reinforce anything, didn't highlight subtle queues, they were just lingering.
True. A lot of filmmakers don't understand the point of long shots. I've been meaning to make a video about that very subject, but ya know... I'm lazy. Thanks for watching!
Just a small pointer. Outside of the Ahsoka show, Sabine was a character that had a less than average execution of her arc. For those not daunted by the cliche, Sabine is a typical runaway, its why her friendship with the ghost crew and Ezra in particular that helped her complete the arc is so important to her. If wrote correctly it would show her emotional state changing as the chances of reuniting the family, as it were, get higher. Also the while force connection is bullshit, everything else does have genuine connections to her story and character.
I have long stopped watching Star Wars stuff, but a guy said "dude, give Andor a chance!"
I did, and it blew me away.
To the point where I gave other stuff a chance too, but stopped that mistake quickly.
Andor is special. Other stuff is not.
If the show was just about Shin and Baylan then it could have been something.
I agree, they were the only good thing about the show
@@valley_robot Kinda really sucks that we’ll never get that now.
Excellent video! My first time seeing your channel, but instant sub. Can't wait to wade into the back catalogue.
Aww shucks! I told myself i wouldnt cry. 😭Thanks a lot for watching. Genuinely appreciated 🙏🏿😁
I think for Thrawn, it was more or less that they chose a Purgatory path, he's not the real main villain, but he's present.
I see that fer sure.
Would be nice to see a story breakdown of The Old Republic Cinematics, not sure if such a thing is really possible since each scene is pretty disconnected from the other scenes, but would be interesting to hear your takes on them.
Funny story: We were supposed to do a podcast with another RUclipsr to talk about KOTOR, but it never worked out. Maybe a video essay is the way to go? 🤔
Great video - couldn't get through Ahsoka but hadn't analysed why. Agree that Andor is the GOAT TV series. Now going to search your channel for other Star Wars goodness
Thanks a lot! Check out the Star Wars playlist on the homepage
ANDOR IS MASTERPIECE, AHSOKA IS CRAP, SIMPLE AS THAT.
Skroll Tide!!!! 😂😂😂
Well, Andor is a masterpiece, Ahsoka is a wasted oportunity that ended up as random mediocricy, and BookOfBobba and Kenoby are crap ^^ (And also just a wasted oportunity)
@arneczool6614 Definitely a lot of wasted opportunities. So much talent yet so much "meh."
Mando?
I still really like Mando. Ahsoka, Kenobi and Fett were dissapointing.
I always heard that 3D clone wars style was an homage to 60s puppet/marionette shows like Thunderbirds and not an attempt to mimic Tartakovsky
Thank you for this vid. (Big, BIG Gennedy fan.)
I'm definitely checking out Andor now.
I think your observations on both shows and the franchise in general are spot on. Disney clearly doesn't have a clue what to do with Star Wars. There are too many "fans" in command positions to produce anything fresh or interesting, it seems. Ahsoka had so much potential but just died a slow death by 1000 inexplicably poor creative choices. And Andor is, for me as well, the only worthwhile Star Wars show on Disney Plus.
i find ashoka hard to watch still havent finished it , its feels like the writing . BUT Andor is a masterpice
I enjoyed ahsoka. But one thing i will say is that i missed a week of the show here and there and had to catch up. Andor i was counting the days between episodes.
Excellent and entertaining analysis! Subscribed!
Thanks a lot! 😁
Dear Disney, if you brought in Tony Gilroy to fix Rogue One (and he added Vader in the end) and he also made this amazing show then maybe why not give him a TRILOGY???!!! Doh!
Disney: nah, we’ll give Falloni a movie instead.
Star Wars fans: uggghh!!!
In an Alex Jones Voice: “We’ve got the documents to prove!…” 📑 📃 😂
@@drunkbanthas 😂😂😂 they exist and we got em
I love the way you present your video, it's hilarious!
🙋🏾♂️ Thank you! Really appreciate it! 😊
It is quite rare and refreshing to find someone with negative criticism of star wars and the like without it devolving into some current trend ideological projectionism, just honest opinions and carefully thought out critique.
Also like that even though you set up a comparison between 2 shows (which are rather different in execution) you didn't end up pointing the finger at separate scenes and goinngg ; "This good, This bad!"
Keep it up.
Much appreciated! Thanks for watching 👀
What a fun video! Loved Andor, didn't care much for Ahsoka. They needed to bring everyone up to speed with the show, not just continue from Rebels. Sabine dying would have been that moment in Andor where he shoots the dude in the face. Then we wouldn't have to put up with any other stupid stuff Sabine does.
killing sabine wren would've been such a huge F you
I loved rebels but ahsoka was underwhelming after that
it needed a lot better writing and pacing
I'm not particularly excited about Dave Filoni taking over, he just seems to want to make everything an extension of the Clone Wars, which most people haven't watched and I personally didn't get into. Every show he's been involved in has just been 'look it's Cad Bane', 'look it's Ezra Whathisname', 'look it's Ahsoka' instead of making something good and original. A lot like Marvel, Star Wars seem to be going down the trend of shoehorning in fan service as a crutch for uninteresting story, and just like Marvel there are a very vocal group who eat this shit up and encourage the situation to get worse.
There is no reason whatsoever for any show Star Wars or otherwise to not have the quality of writing as Andor
Great video! I agree with you for the most part but I found the series The Clone Wars more visually appealing than the pilot. Yeah the characters were kinda weird looking sometimes but it has a unique aesthetic, I don't find it ugly and I loved the series. Also the political element was explored a lot in that show considering it was mainly made for kids haha
“No one cared what Mon Mothma was doing before sh*t kicked off”.
I did! I wanted to know more about Mon Mothma after her appearance in ROTJ because she seemed interesting even in that one brief scene she had in the movie.
BTW, do we ever find out about those poor Bothans who died getting intel for the rebellion? Why didn’t they make a “Star Wars: Bothans” movie?
from what ik about bothans and their spy work, such movie should have cyberpunk-ish tone and I'm all for it
Tbh ahsoka was well received by the fandom, much more than BOBF and Kenobi
Ahsoka is good, Andor is incredible
Agreed! Well said. Thanks for watching! 😃
So glad it was pointed out tje the treatment of the Sabine character. It littaraly stalled the series from the very first episode. It felt like the writers wanted it all to littaraly be about Sabine but realized that was the least interesting backstory of the Rebels, so they titled it Ahsoka to draw in the fans then did a bait a switch. Sad.
It's a shake-your-head-in-wonder concept that the animated reunion between Ahsoka and Rex in Rebels conveyed far more emotion than any of the reunions in Ahsoka. And let's not dare to compare those to the reunion of Cassian and Brasso in Andor.
Just tangenting into Willow for a sec, Gradon Hastur was actually my favorite character. He started out as a typical weedy nebbish, but revealed a lot of depth and heart as the series went on. The only reason I was at all upset there would be no season two was because I would never find out what happened to him.
Fair enough. I just thought his arc to becoming a sorcerer cheapened Alora's journey. If the show just followed Alora, Willow, Ruby Cruz and Erin Kellyman (I forget their character names) I would've been satisfied. A few too many characters and storylines for my liking. Thanks fee watching, btw
@@drunkbanthas Hard agree on too many characters! God only knows what they thought they were doing with that. I get what you're saying about Hastur's magic cheapening Alora's journey, but I have to admit I never felt that. I just thought it was really neat that this sweet weirdo actually had so much potential. I also loved the idea that Elora was a natural but too anxious to allow herself her real power, whereas Hastur was working his ass off to get to the same place. I thought they were really compatible that way.
And hey, you're welcome! Good channel.
Stellen, Serkis, Mon mothma lady. What more can I say
The scene that made andor for me, was when the empire laid out their plan on aldani, and how they systematically crush a culture. Not through violence but just homogenization. Cutting them off from their customs
Yeah, that was some cold blooded sh*t and oddly more disturbing than blowing up a village or something
Great, entertaining and thoughtful review !
Thank you Scuba Steve! That really means a lot! 🥹
I'm 51. I saw A new hope in a Drive in with my parents. I lived the Star Wars consuming life. It always amused me when people say "Andor doesn't look like Star Wars." Because to people who lived the original trilogy in real time Andor looks EXACTLY like Star Wars. The glossy green naboo prequels and the Cantoby...whatever it's called...new trilogy didn't feel like Star Wars. It was all too glossy, too shiny. Too, pastel mopeds in Fat Book of Boba Fettt. A new hope and Empire were gritty, dirty, industrial, stark, an utilitaian. The color palate was black, white, brown and grey. We didnt't get any green the back half of Jedi on endor. Even Dagobah was mostly brown. Andor is gritty, dirty, industrial, stark, utilitarian. The andor palette is mostly, black, white, brown, grey. Yes there is green too but no pastels. the closest is i the city and house of Mon. but even that is stark and white mostly. Rogue One felt like original Star Wars. Andor actually felt like original Star Wars. I think to younger viewers they lived through bad, glossy, disney star wars. That's what they think it is. So Andor doesn't look like their association. But their association is flawed cause it's not the original. It's not what made Star Wars a household name for more than a decade. If you lived more than a decade fixated on the original trilogy, having it in the new, having it's toys in stores, have it be what made star wars, Andor and Rogue One feel like a trip back to real Star Wars as opposed to younger viewers that think it doesn't feel like Star Wars.
Agreed. Cinematography of Andor is comparable to ESB. I will say that Andor and Rogue One feel a bit more mature than the original trilogy -- which I dig.
Couldn't agree more, good sir. Same thing applies for the writing - people say "Andor just doesn't feel like Star Wars" because it doesn't revolve around cameos and is "too slow" with "too much talking" (god forbid there not be a pew pew every two seconds... god forbid you have to look up from your phone to pay attention to the screen)
News flash: Watch a movie from the 70s-80s. It's slower. Lotta "talky talky". That's what makes the action scenes so good. That's why you care. That's Star Wars.
Andor feels more like Star Wars than any other show because, above all, original Star Wars was just good filmmaking and character-building. That's it. Doesn't have to be tied down by everything that came before it, or have to set up everything after it. The best form of "Star Wars" that a Star Wars show can be is just to be a good show.. I don't care if it represents "the fandom" (who gives a shit?). Speaking *AS A MASSIVE FAN* the fandom has become an insular cult of mediocre, marketing-driven storytelling.
Andor is the best thing to happen to Star Wars since Empire. Remembering that we're here to have a good story told to us, and that's all that bloody matters.
The worst thing that the Ahsoka show did was spay Mon Mothma.
Oh, hell yes! The keen bureaucratic blade of Mon Mothma that we see in Andor is totally missing from Ahsoka. She's played for a fool in Ahsoka. I yearned for a B-plot showing Mon Mothma and maybe even Leia dealing with Empire sympathizers behind the scenes in the senate.
@@rdkirk3834 that would require forethought and an attention to storytelling and world building that Dave, KK, and the other “creatives” clearly lack.
I didn't like Ashokha, but I did like Thrawn - in that he seemed to have good plans, and good contingencies, and then back-up plans for those plans, but all of those failed in the face of perfect plot armor for the heroes. There were some scenes where you could almost feel Thrawn staring through the fourth wall and sighing.
Yep.
He looked and sounded the part, so I'm sad he ended up ahsoka instead of another show... A little more serious... Oh well. I'll just pretend the books are canon.
Holy shit this review was incredible. I must see more.
Aww shucks. Thanks for watching 😁
Thrawn, Tactical Master Mind. Ignores parking his Star Destroyer away from the tower so his opponents can't literally walk up to it.
3:24 That cereal does exist! It was limited edition Trix
all you kids keep saying andor doesn't look or feel like star wars and my 43 year old ass is over here like. Andor is most like star wars since empire strikes back and theatrical release return of the jedi! Rogue one was close except donny yen photo bombing the whole movie. All these young folk grew up with star wars not being star wars. starting with the special editions. Jedi especially has a completely different tone compared to the theatrical. then the prequels, the remalke/sequels. most of the tv shows.
Yeah, when people say Andor doesn't feel like Star Wars and that it's "boring," I feel like Inigo Montoya. "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."
@@drunkbanthasfacts 😂😂 I’m reading the comments and people are like “I like the flashy” “I like the light sabers” what are they doing the other 60% of the time when their ain’t flash and light sabers they just sleeping thru the rest of it?
Andor does such a good job in exploring the rest of the time and diving into the good bad and ugly side of being a rebel
Andor was not Star Wars. It was something else. It’s was exciting and adult oriented. I hope they can keep up with it like they did with season 1.
Star Wars is anything you want it to be! But of Andor isn't what you want from Star Wars, I get it
Andor is what we want tbh.
Andor, like og clone wars, uplifts the universe and recontextualizes the films to enhance the og films even more.
andor was great. would love to see more
Filoni is bad story writer
There are a few Disney Star Wars Shows that I've seen more than once and plan to watch again (Mandalorian, Visions) - Andor is included in this circle. Ahsoka isn't. That may change, but as it is now ... with the circle shows the characters intrigued me, in Ahsoka most of them bored or annoyed me.
Agreed. Visions and Andor should be way popular considering it's some of the best stuff that Star Wars has produced in a while.
such a fresh take, thxuuu🫶🏻
😁
I'm honestly really glad about the point he made about thrawn. According to the lore he's supposed to be some sort of super tactician, but I honestly can't think of anything remarkable he did in this show or Rebels. The whole studying of a people's art to " learn how they think"
( whole groups of people and their art are monolithic apparently, cuz star wars logic) goes to show just how pretentious, and half baked the character really is.
He got his ass kicked by a ragtag group of rebels, then 9 years later failed to do anything impressive once more.
Same can be said about the filoniverse as a whole.
Without Andor, Ashoka would probably being praised as an improvement by some people after the lackluster of The Book of Boba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi shows.
Even though it didn't reached the level of greatness of The Mandalorian, at least it treated fan favorite characters not as bad as the other two shows.
But Andor spoiled many of us and made us realized that Lucasfilm is actually capable of making a spectacular Star Wars show. Which feels more grounded and real while still respecting George Lucas' original vision.
The existence of Andor also exposed so many flaws in other Star Wars shows, including The Mandalorian. Now we can't see the same Star Wars anymore if it doesn't have the same treatment like Andor does.
Andor was a gift and a curse.
I wonder if some of the difference between Andor and the other live action Star Wars show is due to merchandising expectations. I don't see any cute aliens or droids pushed into Andor, but there are scenes in Mandalorian, Boba Fett, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ahsoka and Acolyte that I assume are only there to sell merch.
Selling merchandise has definitely been always been a priority for Star Wars and you're right: there isn't really any cute stuff in Andor you can sell to 5 year olds
Ahsoka story just dragged on too long without much happening. Dialogue was often wooden between Ahsoka and Sabine. Actors are better than the writing given them. Not Filoni's best work. Animated Rebels is much better in general.
Yes. It's a shake-your-head-in-wonder concept that the animated reunion between Ahsoka and Rex in Rebels conveyed far more emotion than any of the reunions in Ahsoka. And let's not dare to compare those to the reunion of Cassian and Brasso in Andor.
Oh, wau, you watched it a 2nd time? That's dedication.
We do it… so you don’t have to! 😂
Actually, I wondered a lot and cared about Mon Mothma past
Oh cool. Mon Mothma os interesting but I never thought where she came from any more than Grand Admiral Tarkin. Maybe we need a Tarkin series? Ian McKellen fancast?
Correction: ask 3 different Star Wars fans about *any* of the franchise properties, and you'll get *_4_* different answers... at least.
Thank you, simply for the "Pretty darn good" George clip.
I appreciate your appreciation
Andor did mention Emperor Palpatine and showed clone and stormtroopers, but that’s just about it for nostalgic callbacks. Ahsoka on the other hand, is riddled with them - Hayden’s appearance as Anakin takes the prize. I’ll give Lucasfilm a tip, stop giving Dave Filoni big projects.
Those weren't so much nostalgic callbacks as they were plot necessities (although did you realize that was Wullf Yularen who mentioned Palpatine...the only cameo of a known figure in the show, a figure from A New Hope, at that). How could there be a story about rebellion against the Empire with no mention of the Emperor or the primary shock troops of the Empire? That would be too much of an _obvious_ effort to leave them out. OTOH, the galaxy is big, so it's not at all difficult for a story of ordinary people not to include Jedi.
2:36 looks a bit like caspar david friedrichs "der wanderer über dem nebelmeer"
Exactly!
Mr D. Banthas, I lov your analysis of "Andor" and found it very instructive but some of the shots flicker on screen and off again so fast that even a Jedi's reflexes cannot keep up with [like at 4:53 there's a split second text box about 'The Internet Reacts to The Weeknd Mispronouncing 'Carte Blanche' on The Idol']. it took me 3 attempts to pause on this graphic before I could actually read the text. For us oldies who watched Star Wars as 8 year olds, who are now mid 50 ish, we need a bit more time to be able to read such stuff - otherwise we feel like we are missing the points you are making. btw what was the point you were making? Never mind.
anyway thanks again and glad you liked Andor as much as we do.
Thanks for watching 👀. A little inside baseball: The RUclips algorithm likes it when there are moments in your video that people rewatch. In this video there were a few spots where I wanted to create some moments where people stop and say "Wait. What was that?!" "Carte Blanche" was an inside joke for anyone who has had the misfortune of seeing The Idol (2022). My other videos aren't quite as jumpy. There are also some quick clips of Mary Elizabeth Winstead's butt from Ahsoka every once in a while when I say "But..." just cause -- ya know. Butt jokes are funny. lol Thanks again for watching.
22:52 that's actually kinda wrong. Leigh Brackett received credits for ESB only due to George's decision to honor her after she died. In fact, pretty much none of what she wrote made it into the movie, as it was all rewritten by George.
Hmm, I heard different but whatevs. 🤷🏿♂️
@@drunkbanthas Her original script is available online. It's an interesting read. There are some things taken from it. It does start on a snow planet, though Hoth is the name of another planet they go to.
@tFighterPilot I'll have to check it out. Thanks!
Amazing video. New sub. “Nerdiverse”
Thanks for the sub!
Andor is the best star wars ever made since the first trilogy
How Someone I know say" one writter play safe and the other take risk and study the material of all eras (Andor feels like Dark Times redux )"
We need more gendy
We're in the prequels situation again where an imaginative guy with a lot of passion for star wars but very obvious limitations in some of the disciplines that go into making good cinema is having an auteur like influence to the detriment of the work. Except that guy isn't the brain behind the most iconic fictional universe outside of middle earth, it's his cowboy hat wearing intern who made some decent cartoons. I'm sure the ideas guys and canon nerds at LucasFilm had their say in making sure Andor fit the continuity, but it was written by someone who is first and foremost an expert in their craft.
The fight scenes in Ahsoka were good for the most part, but I wish Sabine had used her mando gadgets more (and didn't become a jedi, and didn't completely lose her growth from rebels). And while I like both Sabine and Ahsoka in Rebels and The Clone Wars, I agree Ahsoka was not very good
The Soul Train Awards were tonight!
This guy knows
1:53 Damn Alex said who gives af fuck what Ja Rule thinks
😂😂
"Ja Rule! Please make sense of this!!"
@alexanderlafosta6035 😂😂😂😂
Andor was awesome, Ashoka was crap with the exception of the few moments with Baylon.