I was with a friend in June, 1972 who looked at and purchased a used gray frame, 1971 Lightning in the bronze color. There was no yellow stripe on the tank, the stripe was the same bronze color as the rest of the tank. This was in the Great Lakes area of the USA. It was a very nice bike, just needed a general tune up and cleaning. We used to trade off bikes and this was what lured me into British bikes. Thanks for the memories.
Thanks Lori for the interest, comment and anecdote. There were a number of deviations from the official the paint scheme that have come to light so not surprised at what you describe.
Thank you for the explanation of dove grey frames - US only and small 1971 window of manufacture - I rescued mine (June '71 b25SS) from a grain shed in Wisconsin - fortunately the mixture of grain dust coating the bike preserved the colour to allow restoration...
Thanks Andrew. FYI the dove grey frames were not US only - they were across what was termed the Home/General Export market as well. However, a grey framed Rocket Three with the original bread bin tank is very very rare to see now but they did exist. Similarly the A65 twins had a larger tank for the home market which spoiled the lean look of the bike - a view held by Brad Jones in his books too. You might notice on my A70 that the front reflectors under the headstok are mounted on an extension bracket - this was to clear the larger tank if fitted, which it never was on the A70, but certainly was on the A65.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 Actually the P50 Norton or BSA was in a Fury/Bandit frame but as you say, fitted with the Isolastics from the Commando. It’s a very pretty bike, and you can only wonder about what if...... Especially when you think about the success Yamaha would get only a few years later with the SR 500 single.
These were my dream bikes! Always just beyond my pocket though. After my moped, I cut my motorcycling teeth on a grey framed '71 B25SS Gold Star. To my eyes it was a thing of beauty, but mechanically it was clapped out so it became my first re-build. It took me ages to stop it breaking down (until I got the rebuild right), but when it did it was a wonderful, simple, rewarding machine to ride. They have a terrible reputation for unreliability, but put together better in the first place they could've been great.
The problems at BSA went very deep. The fact that they were trying to compete with a company obsessed with perfection made matters that much worse. I was a young mechanic at a Triumph/BSA dealer back in the 70s. Build quality was abysmal but what's worse, the components the bikes were built with also suffered from quality control. By the time 1971 rolled around BSA was just struggling under it's own weight. By the way, the Rocket Three is a lovely bike .
Build quality : In the early 70's I heard of someone who bought a new Triumph that constantly wanted to pull to the left. After much to-ing and fro-ing, and resistance from the dealer Triumph said that if he took it to the factory they'd check it over and correct any fault they found. So he rode the bike to the factory, where someone took it out on the road, came back and confirmed that the bike did indeed pull to the left. "Leave it with us and come back tomorrow" he was told, expecting them to replace the frame or at least use their jigs to straighten it. Next day he returned and was told the bike was fine now, but he couldn't see what had been done and was ushered away with no explanation. The bike no longer pulled to the left, but being a little suspicious he went over it thoroughly and found that Triumph's "cure" for the misaligned frame had simply been to lift the left side of the seat with a bit of packing so that *he* leaned to the right ! The opposite: Early 70's. Someone went into the local Honda dealership to order a new crankshaft to replace one that had broken on a bike that was about 5 years old and long out of guarantee. The dealer was surprised as he'd never had to replace a Honda crankshaft, and he warned the customer that it would be *expensive* but duly sent in the order to Honda UK, who promptly insisted on providing one for free because "Our crankshafts don't break !" (I only wish Honda had been equally willing to replace the shock absorbers on my CB400T Super Dream when they began leaking within weeks of my buying it brand new !)
They also had the Edward Turner designed 250 twin 4 stroke scooter engine. All alloy, wet sump and gear primary drive with a duplex final drive in a cast alloy swinging arm which pivoted around the gearbox sprocket so there was no variation in chain tension. It had a number of faults including an inadequate oil pump and puny mainshaft clutch but it could have been developed into a really good engine. BSA's management like the other British manufacturers were appallingly incompetent.
I like that these early classics have full size shiny mudguards! Mudguards which actually keep the mud and crud off the bike and rider. What a novel idea!
BSA at one time the biggest motor cycle producer in the world, and for good reason. Pity the profits weren't ploughed back into the business they might still be with us now. They made some really good bikes.
Back in the 70s I owned a bunch of BSA's B-33-DBD 500 Goldies [several] - 69 Rocket 3- 50's A 10s & A7 -C11-B44-B50-70 Lighting -B34 -C15 -B25 on and on! A friend of mine had one of the A75 twins that I got to try out. I was amazed much smoother the engine was compaired to my A65 or any other A65s I had ridden. And seem to have a very noticeable increase in power particularly in the mid to higher revs. My biggest complaint was the wet frame's taller seating and at 5-11" I am not particularly short. I think a winner with a disk front brake if only they could of held on a few more years. I also owned Ariel SQ 4 -Vincent Black Shadow -Several Velocettes KSS-Venom clubman -MAC -Scrambler- Matchless-Nortons 750& 850 Commandos [Interstate- Fastback-Roadster -P-11 -ES-2 ] and a M120 Panther outfit ! You might say I loved my British bikes!!
These grey frames looked odd but they have grown on me. Have to consider that as a show bike they look great but as a normally used bike getting dirty may have looked differently.
It's just my opinion and as nice as these machines are the BSA management tried to compete with the Japanese and design machines that were sort of look alike! They like Triumph should have stuck to the traditional look of the machines made in the 50s and 60s they are classic British designs and still the most sought after
Sorry, but I completely disagree. The bikes BSA and Triumph SHOULD have produced were street versions of the Rob North race bikes. An article back in the 80's showed that the basic frame geometry of those bikes mirrored those of the most successful Superbike of the late 80's: the GSXR Suzuki. The Rob North frame had that covered in 1970, 15 years earlier. It would have taken BSA ahead almost a decade. Instead, they went with that lousy badly-welded thin steel frame with the same old geometry. The '71 Rocket Three was the most attractive motorcycle BSA had sold since the Firebird Scrambler, but neither bike was anything more than a place holder for later failure. Why should I have to tell "engineers" and "designers" that customers don't want to have their hands smell like gasoline just to start the bike? Or that Americans are accustomed to "electrics" that work ALL the time, correctly? Even the cheapest Japanese bikes got that right.
Hi - I agree a street Rob North "SS" or even road race replica could have been a winner but bear in mind that the North's appeared in 1970 and by autumn 1971 it was effectively all over for the group. The Fury frame is very much based upon North lines. Also I think it was acknowledged at the time that many of the '71 range models and facelifts were stop gaps pending Hopwood's modular designs on the drawing board but they still had their faults as you have rightly pointed out.
@@BSAPowerSet ...and I wrote as someone who had intended to buy a Rocket 3 in 1970, if not based on name alone. I went over to my BSA dealer - he had one. Red. Beautiful. Dealer got on it. Put the choke lever up. Reached down to the carbs and "primed" them, a/k/a got his thumbs covered with gas. Bike started first kick. And I loved the "space" mufflers", still do. But I wasn't quite ready. Friend says, "Let's stop by the Honda dealer." We go. Dealer puts a leg over. Turns on the ignition. Puts on the choke. Pushes the button, and it starts right up. My friend looks at me sideways. I bought a CB750.
Thank you Jimbo - most kind. I hope the facts are correct but I'm human so not infallible by any means, e.g. the titanium framed works scramblers were 1965/66 -the later ones were nickel plated Reynolds 531 - so a little earlier than I had thought. Always learning.
@@BSAPowerSet Thanks for the reply. as to the "Always Learning" I have a 68 Firebird and its really frustrating to get information on the production and specs. Having said that I do realise if you want an uncomplicated life do not get into old British bikes.
I've long wore out my '75 T160, but I just rode my '72 T100R Daytona Sunday. I was looking for a Norton Commando or 650/750 Bonny 30 years ago and came across it (the 500) at a Kawasaki dealership. It needed rescued. Rings, solid state rectifier, and some plug wires and I haven't had to touch the motor in 25 years. NOTHING sounds like a 360 degree vertical twin. :-) Beautiful bikes, Angus. I have to say I'm a bit jealous. cheers from Oklahoma, USA
Very very very interesting man 👍 he no is stuff British stuff people like him make this country what it great we built the world and then sold it thankyou very much for the history please do more videos about great Britain please I'm from the black country were all these thing were made and my family all work in the factory were all these thing were made thankyou for keeping these bikes for British history for youg people to no God bless you and God bless this England top man
I made the mistake of buying an A65 new in the early 70s. Compared to my 15yr old A10 it was rubbish, the dealer stripped the engine twice with no improvement, so I sold it at a large loss. Now you can make a good bike out of one, with numerous upgrades available eg. oil pumps etc, but of course none of these were available then. The unit Beezers were released without adequate development, by a factory that was going under, I doubt if anything could have saved the company except a complete re-launch.
Funny I had a 1971 oil in the frame 650 lighting, in black. I actually painted it Horse trailer grey, my buddy was painting a horse trailer at the time. I never knew they had grey frames. I am in Canada and wish I still had my old BSA. 47 years later and still riding, unfortunately not a BSA, but a Harley. Thanks for sharing.
How times have changed. I started riding at 14 in 73. Bonnies were the best cornering, Tridents were faster but fragile, Nortons were quite fast but shook themselves to bits. Everything else British was obsolete. Anything Italian was expensive & exotic. BMW were expensive, boring, old man's bikes. Honda CB 750 & 500 was the death sentence for NVT & Kawasaki Z1 the executioner. I love my Hinkley built Street Triple but my next bike will be a Bonnie Scrambler.
Hi Russ - I started at 15 in '72 and my first Brit was a '68 A65L in 1976 so I just missed the final days of BSA. I used to ride that bike to school when in the 6th form - that was a real puller and I don't mean acceleration.
Back in 1971 in Lethbridge, Canada, the BSA Fury was one I'd kind of decided to buy as my first road bike. But, only the sales literature ever arrived. Ah well. Went to a Suzuki T250J instead, and on the story went.
Suzuki T250 J was my first new bike but I already had a Honda CB 175 and a Grey framed BSA rocket 3 with the Orange tank and panels fantastic bike sounded awesome sadly all gone
I have been following Angus' channel for some time, how nice to see the set out in the open and to hear him talk in some detail about them as a collection.
Bikes that changed BSA's history: 1969 Honda CB 350 Twin, 1969 Honda 750 4. After those bikes, BSA history was over and done, except for a brief but futile rocket into the past at a time when bikers were meeting the nicest people on Hondas and riding into the future on them. BSA should have stuck to small arms.
The 350's look amazing, but quick-fade paint, leaking crankcases and a high-maintenance front brake wouldn't have stood up against the Hondas. My current bike has vertically split crankcases and it's the devil's own job keeping the oil on the inside.
The Honda's had similar twin leading shoe drum brakes, which weren't worse than the terrible swing arm single piston caliper design disk brake that came after.
Great explaination of the gray frame. I did not like the styling at the time(1971) and felt it a gimmick, psychedelic culture marketing for an old design. Made my attraction to buy Norton Commando(black roadster) very easy. The gray frame appeared unfinished. Good video 👍 🇺🇲
I had cash in hand in 71, waiting and lusting for a Fury! Was heartbroken when they didn't make them... So I bought a used 66 Lightning.., later a Spitfire MkII.
I am selling my 2 Tridents and 2 Bonis. It is a sad time for me. To old to maintain. At least I am still able to ride. Difficulty in Kick starting. I am keeping my Thunderbolt though. Mounted to a Jawa side car it will be tolerable for an old guy! Fine work you do. I have heartbreak when I think what could of been. I remember lusting over the 350 adds in American mc magazines.
BSA/ Triumph probably spent more money in promotions than engineering on these new models. They were a classy look at the time but would have been mechanical nightmares for owners. The Honda CB /CL 450 predated these twins and was already a far better option.
@@fiveowaf454 I am talking about the 1970s cb500t not the modern CB500T which is a really good bike, My old 500t was a horrible bike to ride compared to my earlier cb450, the useless front disc and vibes between 60-80 mph limited its use, had Honda over bored the 450 instead of stroking the engine it would have been a good bike, I ended up using mine as a sidecar tug.
Well done Angus so good to see that the Old BSA have been kept alive. Here in Aus i owned two of the 650 1 gold flash and then called the Police special. Great to ride and bot with high Miles had never let me down in the Mechanical section. Loved the adjustable swing are so very so yet stable as well. Keep up the great work look forward to your next time. Aussie.
sad to see how far behind the Japanese the Brits were, even as early as '72. The writing was on the wall at the TT races in the mid 60s but instead of paying attention British motorcycle builders arrived here, with appropriately grey framed, slow heavy variations on obsolete. How uninspiring they were in the face of Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki.
Yes indeed, the Fury would never have stood a chance against the sophisticated Honda 350, even with those who were British fans. Honda had been building multi-cylinder quad-cam racers 5 years before these bikes were conceived, and trickling the know-how down to production...
Sad thing is I still see and hear the same stupid ideas and attitudes that killed the bike industry going on in British and American firms to this day and I have worked in quite a range of things over the last 3 and a bit decades. It's not good.
@@tombryan1 I bought a 750 Bonnie this spring, just couldn't stand it any longer. I take it out for a ride most every day. I think I paid 700 for my 650 back in 76, and almost six grand this year for my 78, but that's all right, in the wind is beautiful.
Once again Angus you have done a stunning job with these power set bikes. But I have often wondered where and why the Fury and Bandit was going to fit into BSA's new range of bikes that where under development at Umberslade Hall. These bikes starting with the 200/250 model and rising all the way 1000/1250 would share many parts, did the Fury share any parts with the new range? Also most people including myself up until recently don't understand what happened in 1971 when BSA missed the all import but very shout USA selling season resulting in a major cash flow problem, and the subsequent and bizarre chain of events that would lead to BSA's demise in 73
Many thanks for the interest. The Fury/Bandit were I think intended to be a stop gap until Bert Hopwood's modular designs on the drawing board at the time in '71 came to fruition. The short term goal I think was to: a) demonstrate that BSA/Triumph could compete with the Japanese re modern design approaches; and, b) capture some share of the huge 350 market in North America. It's reported that Honda sold 2 million or so CB/CL 350s and derivatives in the end - definitely worth trying to take a slice.
I had actually heard about the Bandit/Fury bikes back in the '70's when they were first announced, and would love to have seen them. It was a shame that the industry collapsed as it did, seemingly from poor management. I ended up buying a Yamaha TX500 new, and I liked it, but sold it to a friend after only a year to buy a house. Shortly after that I was lucky enough to buy a BMW R25 250 Barn Find, which I had for many years, and I have ridden BMW's ever since. Currently I have a 1974 R75/5. I was very pleased to see Triumph making a comeback with the Hinckley bikes, very good machines from all accounts.
Local Trenton n.j. brake shop trued my front wheel,then radiused drum & shoes,moment of truth week later,woman pulled out in front of me and stopped as I was going 40,panic stop,back wheel in air,front howled & smoked,dead stop in 20 feet,3/4 inch from ladies door ...thas a goood brake !
Apologies George - my mother was English so that's where I was raised. You'll see where my father was raised and still lives in my latest video from earlier today.
I started biking in the early 1970s. For a learner, there were no new British motorcycles for sale. The smallest bike was a Triumph Daytona 500. Attracting new, young riders to a brand is important to develope brand loyalty. I went down the Suzuki road....
My story is similar to yours, early 70s dirt bike. I remember all the Ossas and Pentons and Bultacos and even a few Montessas but no BSAs. I started on Honda XRs and found them to be bulletproof. My current project bike is a Yamaha XS650b 75 vintage. It was designed to better the British twin and did so very well!
I suppose that's what Meriden tried to do .... 10 years later .... Also NVT took the B50 motor tried isolastic with that and with a Fury frame. A couple of those exist - one at Sammy Miller's museum as far as I know.
Our BSA/Suzuki/Kawasaki shop in the suburbs of N.Y.C. was eagerly waiting for the 350 twins. We did sell several gray framed 650 twins and the owner took a new Rocket III which looked identical to the one in this video. He did later repaint the tank a dark metallic blue, not sure why, perhaps it was already fading.
Yes that's correct. All marketing material had been published but they never made it to the market. Even some parts books and owners manuals were also published.
A family friend owned a triumph trident version of the rocket three 750 when I was about 13 yrs old. I remember sitting on it and the stiff feeling of the clutch and other controls. It seemed massive to me. Couldn’t imagine ever being able to ride something like that. Wanted an AJS or Norton. Ended up riding Japanese dirt bikes instead. If I had been 3 or 4 years older when I got the urge to ride, I may have had each of those, but before waiting to being licensed I chose to ride dirt bikes and, though I like flat track, motocross was easier to participate in for me, a city boy at the time. A fond memory. I still ride, still on the dirt, and I still want each of the them.
I remember seeing a couple of Bandits at Vale-Onslow's half a century ago. I was intrigued but I was interested in buying a very expensive Bell full-face helmet (which was new at the time). Very narrow opening in that helmet and so snug that I had to get my head sized (7 1/4" UK, 7 3/8" US).
When bsa finally closed the doors and American company of auctioneers came in to sell all the machinery. They looked about and said they have invited the wrong customers. They should have invited museums.
I immigrated to Colombia in 2018 and I tried to find a British bike to ride. There were none but there are tens of thousands of small capacity bikes here (
My friend went to Small Heath school. She was 16 when these were made. She did A levels so was there at that age. My dad had an A65. Colleen remembers the bikes leaving the factory.
I had a 1971 BSA Firebird Scrambler 650 CC with the high pipes in 1972. The first thing I did was paint the frame black. The second thing I did was sell it & buy a new 1973 Honda 4. I always thought BSA was copying the looks of Honda. They ran good & handled well but I wasn't keen on the looks.
Many of my older friends who are now in their 80's, did not believe me when I told them that the 250/350 Fury's/Bandits existed, I'm now as a 63 year old, proved to be correct and I am over the moon, my friends are amazed and very happy with my discovery/proof of the models honesty and eveidence.
british monopoly leyland could have just let them build good stuff that might have worked or maybe loucus made a good ignition system i mean i dont know point is that no matter how good the prototype corpoate wouldnt let them build
The guys in the race shops r and d as such had the ideas but no support from bosses and shareholders. They pulled the plug on the bandit and fury. The weak crank oiling was never fixed on the a65s. But everyone knew of the problem and was simple to fix. I had a grey framed a65s. Three engine rebuilds one new engine in a period of three years
There was a motorcycle show here in NZ in 1971 where they had the whole new range of both BSA and Triumph, including the Bandit and the Fury. Shortly after that of course, we heard the news about the financial trouble. I don't know if the Bandit and Fury stayed out here or went home, or whether they had any works inside the cases or not. They also had the Triumph 250 Blazer SS, a rebadged version of the BSA 250, and a couple of years afterwards I ended up owning one. Quite possibly the same one that had been at the show as there never were many here. The only other one I ever saw here much later had been imported from the USA. Mine was a nice bike to ride but not terribly reliable.
The Bandit certainly stayed in NZ for some time and ended up in a transport museum there until purchased by Sammy Miller and brought back to the UK for his museum. It has no internals. I wasn't aware of the Fury over there though. That might be worth some research. Thanks for the interest and comment.
@@BSAPowerSet Well, it is some time ago and my memory could be faulty, but I do seem to recall that the full range of both marques was there. The show I recall was in Masterton, a few of us rode up from Wellington for the day to see it. Masterton is a small town so I suppose they would have been shown in other places too. I think really they should have been releasing the Bandit and Fury about ten years earlier. That conical twin leading shoe brake was excellent on my 250, but I suspect it might not really have been enough for the 750's. The frame on the 250 was excellent, with needle rollers in the swing arm and tapered rollers in the steering head plus snail cam type adjusters for the chain.
wonderful doco about these bikes I'm a BSA fan. From what he showed of the Bandit series whether or not it was produced is irrelevant, vertically split cases is a recipe for oil leaks, they should've known better and an optional electric start whereas the Honda's is standard and Honda has a solid reputation to get around it was very much a proven product
A management team from Britt Industry went on a fact finding visit to Honda. While on a tour of a very large factory complex, they asked to visit the R&D dept, only to be told, This is R&D. In their UK factory R&D was a few blokes in a corner, probably discussing new paint schemes 😢. It was the same in the Car and Aircraft industries, I recàll a Mgr at BAe Filton telling me that it wasnt necessary to know anything about Aircraft to be a Mgr 😢
Nice enduro bike from the early 70s, BSA got it right with the styling of both the B25 and B50. They could have sold well throughout the 70s and 80s if the crisis 0f 71 had never happened.
Hello. I need a cluch endcover assembly #19-7801 or 57-3705 do you have this part, what is the price? or do you hnow who can sell it to me? Thank you very much. I live in Spain.
I had a 64 triumph 650, and a BSA 441 in the seventies, sold them, and really miss them. I had a Yamaha 650 in the 80's, that was very nice, sold it, and now drool over the ones I see and don't have. Still have a nice Harley chopper, but miss the great handling and comfort of these bikes. Never paid more than a few hundred, had seven basket case Yami 650's, and sold them all. Now I really miss them because they were so easy to find, and keep running for a song. Those are some real beauties, I really enjoyed this video, except for the pain, lol. Must be getting old!
The worst part of my 1973 Triumph Bonney was the 5 speed transmissions, clutch hub always breaking the key, gear failures, loved the bike but wished it had the 4 speed.
I've got an ex vale onslow fury frame that had been modded to carry a triumph 500 unit twin engine. It's now fitted with a Honda cb 400 four engine.Sorry too the purists.😁
The American Market was BAD news for British Bikes The Rocket 3 desperately needs the old raygun Exhaust not only does is sound better it looks far better
I was with a friend in June, 1972 who looked at and purchased a used gray frame, 1971 Lightning in the bronze color. There was no yellow stripe on the tank, the stripe was the same bronze color as the rest of the tank. This was in the Great Lakes area of the USA. It was a very nice bike, just needed a general tune up and cleaning. We used to trade off bikes and this was what lured me into British bikes. Thanks for the memories.
Thanks Lori for the interest, comment and anecdote. There were a number of deviations from the official the paint scheme that have come to light so not surprised at what you describe.
Nice to see some recognition for Angus's many many years of efforts!
Thank you for the explanation of dove grey frames - US only and small 1971 window of manufacture - I rescued mine (June '71 b25SS) from a grain shed in Wisconsin - fortunately the mixture of grain dust coating the bike preserved the colour to allow restoration...
Thanks Andrew. FYI the dove grey frames were not US only - they were across what was termed the Home/General Export market as well. However, a grey framed Rocket Three with the original bread bin tank is very very rare to see now but they did exist. Similarly the A65 twins had a larger tank for the home market which spoiled the lean look of the bike - a view held by Brad Jones in his books too. You might notice on my A70 that the front reflectors under the headstok are mounted on an extension bracket - this was to clear the larger tank if fitted, which it never was on the A70, but certainly was on the A65.
Good for you ! Ride it,don't hide it !
@@frankmarkovcijr5459
Actually the P50 Norton or BSA was in a Fury/Bandit frame but as you say, fitted with the Isolastics from the Commando. It’s a very pretty bike, and you can only wonder about what if......
Especially when you think about the success Yamaha would get only a few years later with the SR 500 single.
These were my dream bikes! Always just beyond my pocket though. After my moped, I cut my motorcycling teeth on a grey framed '71 B25SS Gold Star. To my eyes it was a thing of beauty, but mechanically it was clapped out so it became my first re-build. It took me ages to stop it breaking down (until I got the rebuild right), but when it did it was a wonderful, simple, rewarding machine to ride. They have a terrible reputation for unreliability, but put together better in the first place they could've been great.
A superb collection of motor cycles
The grey frame story really sums up the whole of British manufacturing in the 70s....they do look fine tho....
The problems at BSA went very deep. The fact that they were trying to compete with a company obsessed with perfection made matters that much worse. I was a young mechanic at a Triumph/BSA dealer back in the 70s. Build quality was abysmal but what's worse, the components the bikes were built with also suffered from quality control. By the time 1971 rolled around BSA was just struggling under it's own weight. By the way, the Rocket Three is a lovely bike .
Arrogant Management sent them down. Thought they knew everything and didn’t listen to engineers, tradesman or salesmen.
Build quality : In the early 70's I heard of someone who bought a new Triumph that constantly wanted to pull to the left. After much to-ing and fro-ing, and resistance from the dealer Triumph said that if he took it to the factory they'd check it over and correct any fault they found.
So he rode the bike to the factory, where someone took it out on the road, came back and confirmed that the bike did indeed pull to the left. "Leave it with us and come back tomorrow" he was told, expecting them to replace the frame or at least use their jigs to straighten it.
Next day he returned and was told the bike was fine now, but he couldn't see what had been done and was ushered away with no explanation. The bike no longer pulled to the left, but being a little suspicious he went over it thoroughly and found that Triumph's "cure" for the misaligned frame had simply been to lift the left side of the seat with a bit of packing so that *he* leaned to the right !
The opposite: Early 70's. Someone went into the local Honda dealership to order a new crankshaft to replace one that had broken on a bike that was about 5 years old and long out of guarantee. The dealer was surprised as he'd never had to replace a Honda crankshaft, and he warned the customer that it would be *expensive* but duly sent in the order to Honda UK, who promptly insisted on providing one for free because "Our crankshafts don't break !"
(I only wish Honda had been equally willing to replace the shock absorbers on my CB400T Super Dream when they began leaking within weeks of my buying it brand new !)
@@Kevin-mx1vi Honda's obsessive obsession with quality is what killed business as usual bike and car building in the UK and the US.
@@JR-bj3uf Japs are obsessive about literally EVERYTHING,the good AND the bad😁😁
They also had the Edward Turner designed 250 twin 4 stroke scooter engine. All alloy, wet sump and gear primary drive with a duplex final drive in a cast alloy swinging arm which pivoted around the gearbox sprocket so there was no variation in chain tension. It had a number of faults including an inadequate oil pump and puny mainshaft clutch but it could have been developed into a really good engine. BSA's management like the other British manufacturers were appallingly incompetent.
I like that these early classics have full size shiny mudguards! Mudguards which actually keep the mud and crud off the bike and rider. What a novel idea!
BSA at one time the biggest motor cycle producer in the world, and for good reason. Pity the profits weren't ploughed back into the business they might still be with us now. They made some really good bikes.
The new Indian-owned BSA and Royal Enfield bikes are very very good.
Great preservation.
BSA is coming back!!! There's a new spy shots of the bike in testing in india... it could be 650cc single cylinder...
They`re out there right now and very well reviewed,and a 350 too.
The Fury 350 and Fury SS are just stunning looking. What if/if only???
Back in the 70s I owned a bunch of BSA's B-33-DBD 500 Goldies [several] - 69 Rocket 3- 50's A 10s & A7 -C11-B44-B50-70 Lighting -B34 -C15 -B25 on and on! A friend of mine had one of the A75 twins that I got to try out. I was amazed much smoother the engine was compaired to my A65 or any other A65s I had ridden. And seem to have a very noticeable increase in power particularly in the mid to higher revs. My biggest complaint was the wet frame's taller seating and at 5-11" I am not particularly short. I think a winner with a disk front brake if only they could of held on a few more years. I also owned Ariel SQ 4 -Vincent Black Shadow -Several Velocettes KSS-Venom clubman -MAC -Scrambler- Matchless-Nortons 750& 850 Commandos [Interstate-
Fastback-Roadster -P-11 -ES-2 ] and a M120 Panther outfit ! You might say I loved my British bikes!!
Elmwood Place in Ohio, USA had a BSA store in the 1970's..
The Suzuki GS twins alway remined me of the BSA. Just like the SR500 remonded me of the Manx Norton.
These grey frames looked odd but they have grown on me. Have to consider that as a show bike they look great but as a normally used bike getting dirty may have looked differently.
I wonder how the power output on the 350's compared to the Honda CB/CL models?
BSA Fury 350 was 34bhp @ 9000rpm.
@@Coltnz1 would have been competitive on performance then, such a pity we never saw them on the roads!
@@markgreenhow7953 Well the history and demise of the Brit motorbike industry is a sad saga.
It's just my opinion and as nice as these machines are the BSA management tried to compete with the Japanese and design machines that were sort of look alike! They like Triumph should have stuck to the traditional look of the machines made in the 50s and 60s they are classic British designs and still the most sought after
How could a manufacturer offer two bikes with LH gearchange and two with RH gearchange at the same time!!!! They really were in desperate straits.
Sorry, but I completely disagree. The bikes BSA and Triumph SHOULD have produced were street versions of the Rob North race bikes. An article back in the 80's showed that the basic frame geometry of those bikes mirrored those of the most successful Superbike of the late 80's: the GSXR Suzuki. The Rob North frame had that covered in 1970, 15 years earlier. It would have taken BSA ahead almost a decade. Instead, they went with that lousy badly-welded thin steel frame with the same old geometry. The '71 Rocket Three was the most attractive motorcycle BSA had sold since the Firebird Scrambler, but neither bike was anything more than a place holder for later failure. Why should I have to tell "engineers" and "designers" that customers don't want to have their hands smell like gasoline just to start the bike? Or that Americans are accustomed to "electrics" that work ALL the time, correctly? Even the cheapest Japanese bikes got that right.
Hi - I agree a street Rob North "SS" or even road race replica could have been a winner but bear in mind that the North's appeared in 1970 and by autumn 1971 it was effectively all over for the group. The Fury frame is very much based upon North lines. Also I think it was acknowledged at the time that many of the '71 range models and facelifts were stop gaps pending Hopwood's modular designs on the drawing board but they still had their faults as you have rightly pointed out.
@@BSAPowerSet ...and I wrote as someone who had intended to buy a Rocket 3 in 1970, if not based on name alone. I went over to my BSA dealer - he had one. Red. Beautiful. Dealer got on it. Put the choke lever up. Reached down to the carbs and "primed" them, a/k/a got his thumbs covered with gas. Bike started first kick. And I loved the "space" mufflers", still do. But I wasn't quite ready. Friend says, "Let's stop by the Honda dealer." We go. Dealer puts a leg over. Turns on the ignition. Puts on the choke. Pushes the button, and it starts right up. My friend looks at me sideways. I bought a CB750.
@@BSAPowerSet ..and don't get me started on not series producing a "Slippery Sam Replica" for sale in the US....
Such a pleasure to listen to someone who knows what he's talking about.
Thank you Jimbo - most kind. I hope the facts are correct but I'm human so not infallible by any means, e.g. the titanium framed works scramblers were 1965/66 -the later ones were nickel plated Reynolds 531 - so a little earlier than I had thought. Always learning.
Yes agree totally but folks are far more likely to listen to what Guy Martin calls "TV Wankers". Geremy Clarkson being the chief one imo.. 😂
@@BSAPowerSet Thanks for the reply. as to the "Always Learning" I have a 68 Firebird and its really frustrating to get information on the production and specs. Having said that I do realise if you want an uncomplicated life do not get into old British bikes.
Exactly !!!
Thanks Jimbo. Assume you are referring to my comment. :)
We owe those who preserve our heritage
I was working for the BSA importer in Melbourne in 1973, purchased the second last A65L
My first "big" British bike was a '71 BSA Thunderbolt 650 grey frame. I loved it and rode it for 8 years!
A neighbour had one new and I would watch him go to work every morning with envy. Long after I had two of the OIF Lightnings .
I've long wore out my '75 T160, but I just rode my '72 T100R Daytona Sunday. I was looking for a Norton Commando or 650/750 Bonny 30 years ago and came across it (the 500) at a Kawasaki dealership. It needed rescued. Rings, solid state rectifier, and some plug wires and I haven't had to touch the motor in 25 years. NOTHING sounds like a 360 degree vertical twin. :-)
Beautiful bikes, Angus. I have to say I'm a bit jealous.
cheers from Oklahoma, USA
I can remember seeing the Fury in Vale-Onslow's shop in Birmingham many years ago. A real beauty of a bike.
Very knowledgeable man. Beautiful bikes. Good luck to you Angus. 🍺
I had a 1967 BSA A65S that I converted to a SRM750.. which I think was a copy of the Devimead 750 conversion ?
Very very very interesting man 👍 he no is stuff British stuff people like him make this country what it great we built the world and then sold it thankyou very much for the history please do more videos about great Britain please I'm from the black country were all these thing were made and my family all work in the factory were all these thing were made thankyou for keeping these bikes for British history for youg people to no God bless you and God bless this England top man
I made the mistake of buying an A65 new in the early 70s. Compared to my 15yr old A10 it was rubbish, the dealer stripped the engine twice with no improvement, so I sold it at a large loss. Now you can make a good bike out of one, with numerous upgrades available eg. oil pumps etc, but of course none of these were available then. The unit Beezers were released without adequate development, by a factory that was going under, I doubt if anything could have saved the company except a complete re-launch.
You have to take into account the unions involvement into the demise of the English motorcycle industry in the 1960-1970's.
Na,it wasn't the unions, it was corporate greed & design by committee ...
Funny I had a 1971 oil in the frame 650 lighting, in black. I actually painted it Horse trailer grey, my buddy was painting a horse trailer at the time. I never knew they had grey frames. I am in Canada and wish I still had my old BSA. 47 years later and still riding, unfortunately not a BSA, but a Harley. Thanks for sharing.
How times have changed. I started riding at 14 in 73. Bonnies were the best cornering, Tridents were faster but fragile, Nortons were quite fast but shook themselves to bits. Everything else British was obsolete. Anything Italian was expensive & exotic. BMW were expensive, boring, old man's bikes.
Honda CB 750 & 500 was the death sentence for NVT & Kawasaki Z1 the executioner.
I love my Hinkley built Street Triple but my next bike will be a Bonnie Scrambler.
Hi Russ - I started at 15 in '72 and my first Brit was a '68 A65L in 1976 so I just missed the final days of BSA. I used to ride that bike to school when in the 6th form - that was a real puller and I don't mean acceleration.
I like the scrambler
@@redtobertshateshandles lol l had a Honda 350 scrambler burnt my leg twice
Back in 1971 in Lethbridge, Canada, the BSA Fury was one I'd kind of decided to buy as my first road bike. But, only the sales literature ever arrived. Ah well. Went to a Suzuki T250J instead, and on the story went.
Suzuki T250 J was my first new bike but I already had a Honda CB 175 and a Grey framed BSA rocket 3 with the Orange tank and panels fantastic bike sounded awesome sadly all gone
such a pleasure watching this. I had a small tank 1971 black frame lightning 650 wit oil in frame, such a great nostalgic bike now, thanks so much.
I have been following Angus' channel for some time, how nice to see the set out in the open and to hear him talk in some detail about them as a collection.
Well done Angus lovely to see your rare collection of beautiful BSAs . Really enjoyed the video keep up the good work John looking forward to more..😊👍
Thank you Eddie for the interest and kind comment.
I'm only guessing, but did R&D money go to wages and benefits?
Bikes that changed BSA's history: 1969 Honda CB 350 Twin, 1969 Honda 750 4.
After those bikes, BSA history was over and done, except for a brief but futile rocket into the past at a time when bikers were meeting the nicest people on Hondas and riding into the future on them.
BSA should have stuck to small arms.
They still make fine target .22 rifles,Olympic grade,and inexpensive optics ...
The 350's look amazing, but quick-fade paint, leaking crankcases and a high-maintenance front brake wouldn't have stood up against the Hondas. My current bike has vertically split crankcases and it's the devil's own job keeping the oil on the inside.
The Honda's had similar twin leading shoe drum brakes, which weren't worse than the terrible swing arm single piston caliper design disk brake that came after.
Great explaination of the gray frame. I did not like the styling at the time(1971) and felt it a gimmick, psychedelic culture marketing for an old design. Made my attraction to buy Norton Commando(black roadster) very easy. The gray frame appeared unfinished. Good video 👍
🇺🇲
I had cash in hand in 71, waiting and lusting for a Fury! Was heartbroken when they didn't make them... So I bought a used 66 Lightning.., later a Spitfire MkII.
I am selling my 2 Tridents and 2 Bonis. It is a sad time for me. To old to maintain. At least I am still able to ride. Difficulty in Kick starting. I am keeping my Thunderbolt though. Mounted to a Jawa side car it will be tolerable for an old guy! Fine work you do. I have heartbreak when I think what could of been. I remember lusting over the 350 adds in American mc magazines.
BSA/ Triumph probably spent more money in promotions than engineering on these new models. They were a classy look at the time but would have been mechanical nightmares for owners. The Honda CB /CL 450 predated these twins and was already a far better option.
The Honda 450 twins were fine until they were enlarged to 500cc which was an abortion of a bike, horrible thing to ride.
@@georgebarnes8163 I had a Honda CB500T it was a fantastic bike, for what it was.
@@fiveowaf454 I am talking about the 1970s cb500t not the modern CB500T which is a really good bike, My old 500t was a horrible bike to ride compared to my earlier cb450, the useless front disc and vibes between 60-80 mph limited its use, had Honda over bored the 450 instead of stroking the engine it would have been a good bike, I ended up using mine as a sidecar tug.
@@georgebarnes8163 So am I, I had a 1975 one when I was at university.
Fantastic video in all respects. And yes, the tank on the Rocket Three is simply stunning.
BSA Forever! I miss my 72 Rocket 3 and my 70 Royal Star! Well done!!!
Well done Angus so good to see that the Old BSA have been kept alive. Here in Aus i owned two of the 650 1 gold flash and then called the Police special. Great to ride and bot with high Miles had never let me down in the Mechanical section. Loved the adjustable swing are so very so yet stable as well. Keep up the great work look forward to your next time. Aussie.
sad to see how far behind the Japanese the Brits were, even as early as '72. The writing was on the wall at the TT races in the mid 60s but instead of paying attention British motorcycle builders arrived here, with appropriately grey framed, slow heavy variations on obsolete. How uninspiring they were in the face of Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki.
Yes indeed, the Fury would never have stood a chance against the sophisticated Honda 350, even with those who were British fans. Honda had been building multi-cylinder quad-cam racers 5 years before these bikes were conceived, and trickling the know-how down to production...
@@paulhall170
Five years?
Can you say ten years.
Sad thing is I still see and hear the same stupid ideas and attitudes that killed the bike industry going on in British and American firms to this day and I have worked in quite a range of things over the last 3 and a bit decades. It's not good.
What a great collection, the 750's look so small compared to current day machines.
I look at them and wish I had one, don't much care for the newer, "got everything" bikes. I miss those old ones.
@@johnmcclain3887 I wonder if Anis would sell one.
@@tombryan1 I bought a 750 Bonnie this spring, just couldn't stand it any longer. I take it out for a ride most every day. I think I paid 700 for my 650 back in 76, and almost six grand this year for my 78, but that's all right, in the wind is beautiful.
Once again Angus you have done a stunning job with these power set bikes. But I have often wondered where and why the Fury and Bandit was going to fit into BSA's new range of bikes that where under development at Umberslade Hall. These bikes starting with the 200/250 model and rising all the way 1000/1250 would share many parts, did the Fury share any parts with the new range?
Also most people including myself up until recently don't understand what happened in 1971 when BSA missed the all import but very shout USA selling season resulting in a major cash flow problem, and the subsequent and bizarre chain of events that would lead to BSA's demise in 73
Many thanks for the interest. The Fury/Bandit were I think intended to be a stop gap until Bert Hopwood's modular designs on the drawing board at the time in '71 came to fruition. The short term goal I think was to: a) demonstrate that BSA/Triumph could compete with the Japanese re modern design approaches; and, b) capture some share of the huge 350 market in North America. It's reported that Honda sold 2 million or so CB/CL 350s and derivatives in the end - definitely worth trying to take a slice.
I had actually heard about the Bandit/Fury bikes back in the '70's when they were first announced, and would love to have seen them. It was a shame that the industry collapsed as it did, seemingly from poor management. I ended up buying a Yamaha TX500 new, and I liked it, but sold it to a friend after only a year to buy a house. Shortly after that I was lucky enough to buy a BMW R25 250 Barn Find, which I had for many years, and I have ridden BMW's ever since. Currently I have a 1974 R75/5. I was very pleased to see Triumph making a comeback with the Hinckley bikes, very good machines from all accounts.
A good vid and history on the grey frames. Well done Angus.
Sweet, been on the back of a beeza goldflash in the 70s, always wanted a bantam post office red bike 🛵🇬🇧😎
Very interesting. I'm an old fart and " grey frame " is a new one on me. Truely lovely bikes.
All new to me, heard rumours about 1978 !
Sad that BSA went. I suppose they couldn’t compete with Honda with their electric starts, front disc brakes etc.,
Local Trenton n.j. brake shop trued my front wheel,then radiused drum & shoes,moment of truth week later,woman pulled out in front of me and stopped as I was going 40,panic stop,back wheel in air,front howled & smoked,dead stop in 20 feet,3/4 inch from ladies door ...thas a goood brake !
The first Honda disc brakes were crap
I had a 250cc Goldstar with a grey frame reg GGF 559J
Why was I expecting a Scottish accent ?
Apologies George - my mother was English so that's where I was raised. You'll see where my father was raised and still lives in my latest video from earlier today.
I started biking in the early 1970s. For a learner, there were no new British motorcycles for sale. The smallest bike was a Triumph Daytona 500. Attracting new, young riders to a brand is important to develope brand loyalty. I went down the Suzuki road....
My story is similar to yours, early 70s dirt bike. I remember all the Ossas and Pentons and Bultacos and even a few Montessas but no BSAs. I started on Honda XRs and found them to be bulletproof. My current project bike is a Yamaha XS650b 75 vintage. It was designed to better the British twin and did so very well!
should have just rubber mounted the motor and the Lucas electrics and kept the old classic looks
I suppose that's what Meriden tried to do .... 10 years later .... Also NVT took the B50 motor tried isolastic with that and with a Fury frame. A couple of those exist - one at Sammy Miller's museum as far as I know.
Our BSA/Suzuki/Kawasaki shop in the suburbs of N.Y.C. was eagerly waiting for the 350 twins. We did sell several gray framed 650 twins and the owner took a new Rocket III which looked identical to the one in this video. He did later repaint the tank a dark metallic blue, not sure why, perhaps it was already fading.
They made these Rocket IIIs with blue tanks too.
So no Bandit or Fury's were ever sold?????? I remember seeing ads for them.......
Yes that's correct. All marketing material had been published but they never made it to the market. Even some parts books and owners manuals were also published.
A family friend owned a triumph trident version of the rocket three 750 when I was about 13 yrs old. I remember sitting on it and the stiff feeling of the clutch and other controls. It seemed massive to me. Couldn’t imagine ever being able to ride something like that. Wanted an AJS or Norton. Ended up riding Japanese dirt bikes instead. If I had been 3 or 4 years older when I got the urge to ride, I may have had each of those, but before waiting to being licensed I chose to ride dirt bikes and, though I like flat track, motocross was easier to participate in for me, a city boy at the time. A fond memory. I still ride, still on the dirt, and I still want each of the them.
Remember when I was 13 and going with my father to have a look at the new grey framed 650 lighting at Max Stephens motorcycles in Hobart.
I remember seeing a couple of Bandits at Vale-Onslow's half a century ago. I was intrigued but I was interested in buying a very expensive Bell full-face helmet (which was new at the time). Very narrow opening in that helmet and so snug that I had to get my head sized (7 1/4" UK, 7 3/8" US).
very good collection and great history lesson
My first bike was a 69 BSA lightning. Mechanically it was Rock Solid. The electrical system was an absolute nightmare.
When bsa finally closed the doors and American company of auctioneers came in to sell all the machinery. They looked about and said they have invited the wrong customers. They should have invited museums.
The fury is a fantastic looking bike, what went wrong
Thank the Lord for knowledgeable nerds. Great little video.
Absolutely beautiful bikes, credit to you
I immigrated to Colombia in 2018 and I tried to find a British bike to ride. There were none but there are tens of thousands of small capacity bikes here (
My friend went to Small Heath school. She was 16 when these were made. She did A levels so was there at that age. My dad had an A65. Colleen remembers the bikes leaving the factory.
I have seen a Fury for sale in the US and it was claimed a running example
Yes Ray there was one on FB Marketplace of all places!
Either these bikes are unique or they are not. You cannot modify unique.
Agree Ward - my two Furys are not unique - rare perhaps, although not as rare as for instance a Healey Square four.
We Had it....Then Lost It!🇬🇧
Very interesting thank you!
Very interesting
I had a 1971 BSA Firebird Scrambler 650 CC with the high pipes in 1972. The first thing I did was paint the frame black. The second thing I did was sell it & buy a new 1973 Honda 4. I always thought BSA was copying the looks of Honda. They ran good & handled well but I wasn't keen on the looks.
Many of my older friends who are now in their 80's, did not believe me when I told them that the 250/350 Fury's/Bandits existed, I'm now as a 63 year old, proved to be correct and I am over the moon, my friends are amazed and very happy with my discovery/proof of the models honesty and eveidence.
british monopoly leyland could have just let them build good stuff
that might have worked
or maybe loucus made a good ignition system
i mean i dont know
point is that no matter how good the prototype
corpoate wouldnt let them build
The guys in the race shops r and d as such had the ideas but no support from bosses and shareholders. They pulled the plug on the bandit and fury. The weak crank oiling was never fixed on the a65s. But everyone knew of the problem and was simple to fix. I had a grey framed a65s. Three engine rebuilds one new engine in a period of three years
Love the Alp d'Huez t shirt and the bikes aren't too shabby either.
There was a motorcycle show here in NZ in 1971 where they had the whole new range of both BSA and Triumph, including the Bandit and the Fury. Shortly after that of course, we heard the news about the financial trouble. I don't know if the Bandit and Fury stayed out here or went home, or whether they had any works inside the cases or not. They also had the Triumph 250 Blazer SS, a rebadged version of the BSA 250, and a couple of years afterwards I ended up owning one. Quite possibly the same one that had been at the show as there never were many here. The only other one I ever saw here much later had been imported from the USA. Mine was a nice bike to ride but not terribly reliable.
The Bandit certainly stayed in NZ for some time and ended up in a transport museum there until purchased by Sammy Miller and brought back to the UK for his museum. It has no internals. I wasn't aware of the Fury over there though. That might be worth some research. Thanks for the interest and comment.
@@BSAPowerSet Well, it is some time ago and my memory could be faulty, but I do seem to recall that the full range of both marques was there. The show I recall was in Masterton, a few of us rode up from Wellington for the day to see it. Masterton is a small town so I suppose they would have been shown in other places too. I think really they should have been releasing the Bandit and Fury about ten years earlier. That conical twin leading shoe brake was excellent on my 250, but I suspect it might not really have been enough for the 750's. The frame on the 250 was excellent, with needle rollers in the swing arm and tapered rollers in the steering head plus snail cam type adjusters for the chain.
wonderful doco about these bikes I'm a BSA fan. From what he showed of the Bandit series whether or not it was produced is irrelevant, vertically split cases is a recipe for oil leaks, they should've known better and an optional electric start whereas the Honda's is standard and Honda has a solid reputation to get around it was very much a proven product
That Rocket 3 is beautiful
A management team from Britt Industry went on a fact finding visit to Honda. While on a tour of a very large factory complex, they asked to visit the R&D dept, only to be told, This is R&D. In their UK factory R&D was a few blokes in a corner, probably discussing new paint schemes 😢. It was the same in the Car and Aircraft industries, I recàll a Mgr at BAe Filton telling me that it wasnt necessary to know anything about Aircraft to be a Mgr 😢
No mistaking the sound of the triple
Nice enduro bike from the early 70s, BSA got it right with the styling of both the B25 and B50. They could have sold well throughout the 70s and 80s if the crisis 0f 71 had never happened.
Hello. I need a cluch endcover assembly #19-7801 or 57-3705 do you have this part, what is the price? or do you hnow who can sell it to me? Thank you very much. I live in Spain.
I had a 64 triumph 650, and a BSA 441 in the seventies, sold them, and really miss them. I had a Yamaha 650 in the 80's, that was very nice, sold it, and now drool over the ones I see and don't have. Still have a nice Harley chopper, but miss the great handling and comfort of these bikes. Never paid more than a few hundred, had seven basket case Yami 650's, and sold them all. Now I really miss them because they were so easy to find, and keep running for a song. Those are some real beauties, I really enjoyed this video, except for the pain, lol. Must be getting old!
The color, vivid, not sure it goes with blue though. Sounds like they were cobbled together from a company bleeding money from lack of sales.
The worst part of my 1973 Triumph Bonney was the 5 speed transmissions, clutch hub always breaking the key, gear failures, loved the bike but wished it had the 4 speed.
I've got an ex vale onslow fury frame that had been modded to carry a triumph 500 unit twin engine.
It's now fitted with a Honda cb 400 four engine.Sorry too the purists.😁
Too bad those 350cc Bandits and Furys weren't produced. Honda was selling a boatload of CB,CL and SL 350s.
I owned a 1969 Lighting back in 1971. I live in America and I never had a BSA shirt, does anyone know where I may purchase one at the present.
The American Market was BAD news for British Bikes The Rocket 3 desperately needs the old raygun Exhaust not only does is sound better it looks far better
Meat and potatoes information on BSA. Every bit was good, especially the Fury.