This play/incident will likely be used or referenced in USAU Observer training every year for the next decade or so. The Observer on the goal line was in a good position and should have been watching the receiver/goal line as his responsibility. I wonder if the sunlight had any effect on visibility, or what was going on there. Kinda a perfect storm in terms of how significant that call was and without the benefit of instant reply/multiple angles, this is the result.
I personally think they should be able to go back and adjust the call if the video evidence is 100% conclusive. Similar to what the NFL does, except unfortunately in Ultimate not every game is filmed and that wasn't available in the heat of the moment.
@@kurtegibson Right now, club ultimate doesn't really have the resources to have videographers covering both ends of the endzone for every elimination game (all divisions too) to make this feasible. So if Observers are going to be given authority to review video/photos, its going to have to come from fans/teams themselves and I think that's a situation fraught with difficulties. Plus, teams are going to petition for video review whenever they think they can, which could really slow the game down. Its just an unfortunate situation that we have to accept some calls are going to be wrong and in this case, really changed the outcome of the entire tournament.
I enjoyed the thoroughness of this analysis. I think that play was too close to tell, and I wouldn't want an elimination game decided on that one way or the other. Did Peter touch the disc first? Yes. Did he stop rotation before A.J. snatched it? No one will ever know. I've been in A.J.'s shoes on this play, where I catch a disc and I don't feel any resistance, so I assume the opponent hadn't clamped down and secured possession. And I've also been in Peter's shoes, where I caught a disc gently first, and a more aggressive opponent ripped it out of my hand a millisecond later and was sure I never had it. And I've also been involved in plays where the first player to touch the disc definitely did *not* secure possession. IMO the observers should know all this, and should send it back. I think the fact that this play will be remembered is asterisk enough, just like the Royals winning the 1985 World Series after a blown call at first base. It's not like Truck lied or cheated to win; they just benefited from a bad call. If the video was super obvious, then fine, wanting them to forfeit is reasonable, but this is just "probably a strip" not "definitely a strip".
Yeah but in Slowmo you can definetely tell that it was a clear strip. Never shouldve gone to the observers imo. But i get what youre saying not Trucks fault at all.
If you can only tell in slo-mo, then people should act like the refs did something wrong. Or mature up a little bit and accept this is something we've collectively allowed by disallowing self-officiating with Observers.
I agree that there is usually no such thing as a deciding play, a game is not defined by just one play. That being said i think is important to remember that this would have been the last play of the game if it had been called correctly. In retrospect, with the slowmo even after the game had gone trucks way, they should have given it up i think. Its not like is the middle of the game where other stuff happens afterwards. For me is clear that even if you finish the game the way it did, the game had already ended with that strip.
Because in play it absolutely does not look like a strip. It's even arguable in slow mo whether or not he demonstrates sustained control. I think he does, but it's close enough to the line you can't blame the Observers for what they saw real time. If you don't like self-officiating (after all, no one has a better perspective on this than the person calling strip) then you've gotta accept this kind of call going this way.
The observers get involved if the player(s) go to them. In this case I know Mac went to the observer but looking back it would have been better if they just sent it back (if Truck would have agreed).
I never actually spoke to him directly about it but I think it’s clear he thought he had it given he didn’t relinquish the call and it went to the observer
I think the point is more, yes the call was bad but the game isn’t decided by just that one call. it is decided by multiple mistakes, one of which a bad call.
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This play/incident will likely be used or referenced in USAU Observer training every year for the next decade or so. The Observer on the goal line was in a good position and should have been watching the receiver/goal line as his responsibility. I wonder if the sunlight had any effect on visibility, or what was going on there. Kinda a perfect storm in terms of how significant that call was and without the benefit of instant reply/multiple angles, this is the result.
I personally think they should be able to go back and adjust the call if the video evidence is 100% conclusive. Similar to what the NFL does, except unfortunately in Ultimate not every game is filmed and that wasn't available in the heat of the moment.
@@kurtegibson Right now, club ultimate doesn't really have the resources to have videographers covering both ends of the endzone for every elimination game (all divisions too) to make this feasible. So if Observers are going to be given authority to review video/photos, its going to have to come from fans/teams themselves and I think that's a situation fraught with difficulties. Plus, teams are going to petition for video review whenever they think they can, which could really slow the game down. Its just an unfortunate situation that we have to accept some calls are going to be wrong and in this case, really changed the outcome of the entire tournament.
I enjoyed the thoroughness of this analysis.
I think that play was too close to tell, and I wouldn't want an elimination game decided on that one way or the other. Did Peter touch the disc first? Yes. Did he stop rotation before A.J. snatched it? No one will ever know.
I've been in A.J.'s shoes on this play, where I catch a disc and I don't feel any resistance, so I assume the opponent hadn't clamped down and secured possession. And I've also been in Peter's shoes, where I caught a disc gently first, and a more aggressive opponent ripped it out of my hand a millisecond later and was sure I never had it. And I've also been involved in plays where the first player to touch the disc definitely did *not* secure possession.
IMO the observers should know all this, and should send it back.
I think the fact that this play will be remembered is asterisk enough, just like the Royals winning the 1985 World Series after a blown call at first base. It's not like Truck lied or cheated to win; they just benefited from a bad call. If the video was super obvious, then fine, wanting them to forfeit is reasonable, but this is just "probably a strip" not "definitely a strip".
Yeah but in Slowmo you can definetely tell that it was a clear strip. Never shouldve gone to the observers imo. But i get what youre saying not Trucks fault at all.
If you can only tell in slo-mo, then people should act like the refs did something wrong. Or mature up a little bit and accept this is something we've collectively allowed by disallowing self-officiating with Observers.
I agree that there is usually no such thing as a deciding play, a game is not defined by just one play. That being said i think is important to remember that this would have been the last play of the game if it had been called correctly. In retrospect, with the slowmo even after the game had gone trucks way, they should have given it up i think. Its not like is the middle of the game where other stuff happens afterwards. For me is clear that even if you finish the game the way it did, the game had already ended with that strip.
But why didn’t the observers send it back? I don’t think it’s Truck stops or Digs fault just bad observers
Bc all 4 of them were 90% sure it wasn’t a strip from what they saw. (It still was tho)
Because in play it absolutely does not look like a strip. It's even arguable in slow mo whether or not he demonstrates sustained control. I think he does, but it's close enough to the line you can't blame the Observers for what they saw real time. If you don't like self-officiating (after all, no one has a better perspective on this than the person calling strip) then you've gotta accept this kind of call going this way.
The observers get involved if the player(s) go to them. In this case I know Mac went to the observer but looking back it would have been better if they just sent it back (if Truck would have agreed).
What did AJ say about it? Did he say he actually had the disc?
I never actually spoke to him directly about it but I think it’s clear he thought he had it given he didn’t relinquish the call and it went to the observer
#bringbackIronside
Victim blaming masterclass 💯💯
I think the point is more, yes the call was bad but the game isn’t decided by just that one call. it is decided by multiple mistakes, one of which a bad call.
Victim blaming is about SA? This is frisbee?
Frisbee needs refs and instant replay
I don’t believe in strips. You want to score a game winner? Hold on to the disc.
What sport do you play then 😭
The good thing about the rules is they apply no matter what dumb beliefs you have 😃
Yup, this is victim blaming garbage. Guess what, Kurt? Ur too late hahahaha! Truck *already* has the asterisk!
Did truck get given a physical asterisk? Or do you mean just in the people's minds.
Just in people's minds
@@erezkassirer7131no they were given a literal asterisk. It was made out of plastic