Installing a RARE G4 Upgrade in a PowerBook G3 Pismo... Can It Run SNOW LEOPARD?!
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Thanks PCBWay.com! Today we're doing an upgrade I've always been curious about - a processor swap in a Powerbook Pismo to take it from G3 to G4! As you probably know from my last video on the Pismo, I was never a huge fan of these machines - but this one is growing on me.
So let's push it to the limit! Maybe even far enough to run the IMPOSSIBLE CAT, the beta version Snow Leopard for PowerPC that was never released? 10.6 on a Pismo!
🍎 Dosdude1's amazing video! • Upgrading an Apple Pow...
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#powerbook #pismo #macintosh
Collectors: we try to keep our machines as stock as possible
Action Retro: o_o SSD and processor upgrade on a laptop, RGB and a desktop GPU in a G4 cube
🤣🤣🤣
@@ActionRetro yes
Depends what you are "collecting". For me, the goal has always been "preserve the experience of running as much mac software as possible on an original machine", so it's necessary to pop in a bigger HDD and, if you can find it, a better CPU to optimize the retro software. But if you're in it for hardware and hardware alone, then sure, keep it at stock and enjoy filling that 20GB HDD in short order.
I'm not even a fan of macs, but yet i enjoy these videos.
Thanks!
see back then they were more computer like now aways there some wierd offbrand expensive garbage
@@1NIGHTMAREGAMER I mean i can tell, they ACTUALLY AREN'T CRAP! I don't hate on mac users, nor do i plan to. But lord fix your shit, Apple.
@@HoboVibingToMusic yes and no I'm saying I feel bad for Mac users cause there screwing them outa money
@@1NIGHTMAREGAMER Ah, Understandable!
This is the result of pushing hardware to the absolute Macs
obsolete*
@@VocalOfficial r/woooosh
i see what you did there :)
P U N I N T E N D E D O R N O T ?
Ha very punny
I would like to do this with my 500mhz g3 pismo, i replaced the battery cells in my battery so it lasts an awefull long time on battery now, about 4,5 hours, my screen received a new backlight because it had a pink tint that wouldn't go away, but now the screen is as good as new with no dead pixels, and i had a broken wallstreet (dead mobo) with a functional door on the back, so i took the door off, i sanded it down to fit the pismo and it looks like the original door, only from up close you can tell that the door isn't the original but its good enough for me, my pismo was my dads, it had a rough life, but with all the work i have done on it, it looks actually very good, i am proud of my pismo that will serve me well.
@Action Retro:
The amount is correct, but you shouldn't use conductive (as-in: electrically conductive) thermal paste like that Artic Silver 5, it's very liquid and it can drip on components and short them (ask me how I know), you should use something like Cooler Master's Master Gel Maker, that isn't conductive and it's more thick and won't move from its place. Or some of the thermal pastes meant to be a thermal pad replacement. Just a suggestion.
Awesome video! It’s always cool to see just how modular these systems are, dedicated CPU PCBs are also super convenient and cool to have!
My first Mac laptop was the Pismo. I loved it. I still have it. I put some sort of CPU upgrade in it. I don't remember off the top of my head. I think it was a 1Ghz G3. In fact, I have two of them.
I've been repairing, and building computers since the late 80's when I was a wee lad, and I can say the amount of thermal compound you put on the CPU was just about right, but personally I like to take a thermal compound spludger, and spread it out a bit so it makes full contact, as heatsinks don't always put even pressure on the chip, and some spots don't get covered. 👍
I've used a razor blade to spread it as well. The spludger may be a safer alternative....🤔
I just got my iBook G3 Clamshell and changed the hard drive and now I feel inspired to change it to an SSD instead
It’s a good upgrade. I’ve heard it can really increase the speed
Wow Great UpGrade Sean I Did not Know They Did Processor Upgrades For Those Pismos
I really, really, REALLY miss Snow Leopard. I dropped away from the Mac after Lion. Could never get into the groove after Snow Leopard was done with.
Since, I am not a power user, I still use OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard on my main desktop. Have a 2010, Mac mini (the last model with a built-in DVD super-drive) paired with an Apple 27-inch cinema (none thunderbolt) display. I am still having fun running all my older OS X Power PC programs using Rosetta 1, my media using Front Row, and controlling my system using the white Apple remote control.
id have killed to get osx10.6 on PPC back in the day.
vary cool used to stair at the CPU upgrades in the magazines with eyes of hope as a kid with no money.
nice, I saw Star Trek Voyager in the games folder you got there. I love that game
Neat. Gave this vid the 1337th like.
Compared to modern Apple computers, this thing is impressive, even with a very slowly working OSX 10.6 prerelease.
I have been looking for one of these processor upgrades for years.,
"firewire ssd" just sounds completely wrong..
I just got a Pismo. P-Ram was borked of course. But it runs, even has a whopping. 128mb of ram.
This is like running Big Sur on a 2008 MacBook Air. Very much possible with a patch, albeit very slow.
You should try installing Sorbet on it!
what a weird beast of a machine.
Those g4 upgrades are so hard to find nowadays
You need the Rage Kexts from Tiger
I'd argue Wallstreet has aged better. Last Mac with Apple floppy drive (needed to make 400k/800k disks) and LocalTalk port. No dice for Pismo.
Imagine buying a G3 pismo on ebay and it turns out to be a G4 running snow leopard.
I love it when an eBay "untested" gamble pays off.
Just why don't you EVER notice the spot in the spotlight indexing?
Do you think the G3 1Ghz card would run the 10.6 beta better?
were can i buy the ram and proccsier
Yes yes yes but what about a G5
Point! Point gesture point point!!!
Does it still run the original OS for the pismo
Snow leopard needs an intel processor to run. A G4 will need an emulator.
hopefully no one actually chucks there old machine in the trash these days, i think back in the day, people didn’t know any better, but the toxic stuff in the old computers have done a some damage to the environment.
if u have something u don’t need anymore that works best to sell or donate to a poor school or community centre.
Thermal compound? Why not a pad?!?!? REEEEE?!?!
😂
Two decades ago, we didn't have thermal pads or heatspeaders on on desktop CPUs. One wrong move when installing your CPU heatsink with your trusty flathead screwdriver and it's curtains for the CPU die! 😬
the time skipped 9:41
What you can do on a G4 that you cannot do on a G3 is run Gaston, a 100% Altivec optimized gfx demo from Leo Fink! ;-)
as a cryptocurrency miner, I can tell you: the only important thing when applying paste is completely covering the die with enough paste to contact the heatsink.. and that is more of application than amount, usually. You put plenty of paste on it but just using a pea-sized blob without using the spludger that comes with most pastes isn't enough for bare-dies. modern x86 CPUs include a big chunk of nickel plated copper on them so you can do whatever you want so long as there's any paste, but GPUs and those old CPUs without an IHS matter a bit more. edit: I put care into using just the right amount because I repaste my GPUs with expensive paste. I want my GPUs to last a decade reliably, I'm much more liberal with Arctic Silver 5 when I'm using it, only thing that matters is coverage and AS5 isn't conductive, so who cares if there's a small mess under the heatsink outside of the die?
can you run mac fan control ?
Oh good idea
This laptop is quite strange for me
Bullshit, you just installed 10.5 and changed the version from 10.5 to 10.6 with a text editor. I've done it before it's not hard. It's bullshit because snow leopard is intel only
forums.macrumors.com/threads/snow-leopard-on-unsupported-ppc-machines.2232031/
That amount of thermal compound was perfectly acceptable.
Prob but hopefully that covers the whole dye if it isn't then the cpu could die
It's probably fine. Back before heatspeaders were common on desktop CPUs I would put a small grain of thermal paste and spread it over the due with a razor blade. In retrospect it seems overkill...🤔
@@alexdhall yea i know since the ihs is missing or never came with one that means the CPU dye is exposed where the silicon is (The hot part of the cpu) so it vital that the dye has an even coat of thermal paste. Some time the temps will say it is fine but there could be no sensor on the small part that is hot. tho that is rare
Honestly i think it needed a smidge more to completely cover the silicon, it is crucial it gets covered and no hot spots the fact the fan was running constanly on that higher end chip confirms it was too hot, probably why it ran so slow. Not enough thermal compound.
@@youtubeaccount7544 def
I expected this dude to have at least 100k subs. Now I am feeling a bit sad.
Oh yeah, that dreaded "untested" description...sigh.
You'd likely get much better scores, especially graphics and disk scores, if you did a clean install of the latest G4 supported version of OSX (leopard?). The machine might select more appropriate KEXTs etc. I'm not saying that the install you've got isn't running well etc, but nothing beats a clean install for the hardware you've got.
Interesting upgrade, don't think Minecraft took too kindly to the Rage Mobility 128 though, and neither did Quartz Extreme on 10.6. Quite likely the fan in this Pismo has never powered on until you did this upgrade - with the stock 400MHz G3 in mine at least it never has run. Don't think it is speed controlled so it's either off or full blast, the latter is very noisy!
Looks like QuartzExtreme just ain’t having it
Their is a software patch for quartzextreme
@@Ironapple09 To make it run well on a Pismo!?
@@askhowiknow5527 Prob not
Just FYI, I've done a bunch of tests with Xbench on my PPC Macs (including my 550Mhz Pismo G4). I have found Xbench to not be particularly reliable. I made a thread about it on macrumors.
I can guarantee you that your graphics performance is much higher regardless of what xbench tells you. I have two other G4 upgraded G3 macs, and the graphics difference is huge. Your numbers were close enough to be in the margin of error anyways.
Disk tests are where I found the most discrepancies with the app. I basically got random numbers with disk tests. I could swap to an SSD and score lower. Or have a TiBook score as much as my G5. My G5 actually scores lower in just about everything than my 1.67Ghz PBG4, and my 1.5Ghz PBG4 which is indentical except for it as 128MB vram vs 64MB, and 2GB of ram vs 1GB on the 1.67. Yet the 1.67 beats it like its a C2D? Okay xbench.
Also, you should have networking in SL beta. That version of safari is too old to load anything. Open TenFourFox, it'll work and load pages.
If I remember correctly .. You can move or remove a resistor somewhere on the daughter card and clock it to 800MHz.
I have some G43/G4 PPC junk bagged up from years ago that would work in this and the cube.
next week's video " Can we stuff a Dual 1GHz in the cube?!?! "😆
This is the sort of awesome content that I read in articles on LowEndMac years back, and I'm super happy to see someone doing high-quality RUclips videos on it!
I remember running this OS on a DELL latitude d505. It was my first hackintosh, went perfectly great and I even discovered I could upgrade it to 10.5 leopard. Awesome
I think the artifacting was a feature of early builds of 10.6. I distinctly remember the issue (and its resolving when redrawing a selection box or something over it) occurring on officially supported hardware.
It would have been hilarious if you dumped the entire tube of thermal compound just to get comments lol
I bought a Pismo in 2000 and used it for design work (QuarkXpress) and light video editing (FCP 1.0 - 3.0) . In May 2007 I bought the Daystar G4 550 upgrade. And yep -- they sent you a nice padded box and you had to send the computer to them in it. I still have the receipt in my email -- $639 for the XLR8 Machspeed G4 550 upgrade + 1GB Ram upgrade. That heatsink got HOT under load and I became accustomed to popping the keyboard off with the latches to "air it out" to avoid crashes. I gave it to my niece in 2010 when I went with a hacktosh laptop .... and I never saw the Pismo again :)
Is really impressive to see this machine handle MacOS 10.6, i thought that was impossible.
Amazing video,
He doesn't call it "Impossible cat" for nothing
Dude u r my tech support when you did the g4 cube I did the exact thing and got it to run Minecraft with optifine mod thanks for the amazing content you make keep up the good work
Haha that's amazing to hear man!!
Greetings from Poland! Nice test! I am tempted to look for such an Upgrade. I have only one (but very important for me) question. ... did it start MacOS 9.2.1 after changing the processor?
Not sure Minecraft wouldn’t run correctly on that, I remember running Minecraft on an iBook G3 Snow on Tiger. Java 5 of course but that’s because Java 6 DP was kind of iffy sometimes for me. 1.5.2 with Optifine on a G3 ran alright in multiplayer. Lowering the resolution a bit, little surprised it performed close to that iMac G4 I have despite being probably the lowest end model for CPU.
Interesting, I wonder why it wouldn't launch for me
Wonder what speed your snow G3 is? Later ones came with the faster Radeon graphics chips, though those are prone to failing due to inadequate cooling.
@@ActionRetro Maybe it's because the video card is too old. I'd try it under SL because it looks like that's using software rendering. Software rendering will be slow af but it will probably be more likely to run.
@@nitrax8629 nope mine was a rage 128 mobility
No QE/CI on Tiger at all
@@ActionRetro Try reinstalling Java, start with Java 5, and then the DP Java 6. Minecraft had Java 5 support until 1.6 so 1.5.2 and lower should run
I AM YELLING AT YOU IN THE COMMENTS!
You would enable QuartzGL in Snow Leopard, it’ll boost your performance quite a bit!
I had two of these laptops in middle school and I loved them. To me, these were the epitome of classic Macintosh. Keep up the awesome videos!
It's blowing my mind how much upgradability all these macs of this vintage seem to posess.
I never used apple products, especially then; but that's when they were enticing to me, and I now realize processed a lot of design philosophy I really respect and desire.
I'd be real upset if I were a fan then, with the landscape now.
Nice video!
I only have 1 PPC Mac
iMac G5 Rev A, 2GB RAM, PowerPC G5 1.8 GHz,Nvidia GeForce MX 5200 Ultra.
I would love if you did a thing with any G5 Mac.
He's done a video where he tried to upgrade the hard drive in a Power Mac G5 to an SSD. I'm not gonna spoil that one, though
I upgraded my Pismo to a G4 using NewerTech back in 2002, but it was a bit of a nightmare. You just sent in the processor card and not the entire machine, but I ended up have two faulty cards and was made to wait for literally months to finally get a fully working one. On the bright side, I still have the upgraded machine and it is still working fine.
I tried to buy one of the 900 MHz G3’s for the Pismo. They kept putting me off. I got the sense that they never actually shipped.
Aw man, that sucks!
As a long time Pismo owner yes, a third party vendor did sell a 900 MHz G3 upgrade card. However, according to people who tested it back in the day, it was an over clocked G3 which, worked fine but did make the bottom of the laptop very hot. In addition, there was both a upgrade G4 at 500 MHz version from one vendor and another upgrade G4 at 550 MHz version from a different vendor. According to the Fast Mac web site their upgrade G4 550 MHz card did not use an over clocked processor.
I guess those scores do kinda show how the G4s real party trick was the Velocity Engine. The raw scores in floating point and GCD show less of an improvement, albeit still a good one when you look at them as a percentage increase.
The 7400 (and 10) were basically just G3s with AltiVec. But at the same time, vector math really is an improvement.
Can you go into more detail about why Apple released a beta version of Snow Leopard for PowerPC? I never knew about that. It’s crazy
Basically just because there was no reason not to, everyone was testing it on Intel hardware by then anyway, and knew it would be Intel only, so nobody really bothered caring about PPC Snow Leopard. They only worked on so many things at a time, and eventually enough components would be x86 only that it would fail to boot on PPC anyway, so... why spend the time explicitly turning off PowerPC compilation on builds nobody would ever see? By 10A190 it was an unstable, buggy mess on PPC with few working components, and that was long before release.
Whenever I apply thermal paste, I don’t rely on the heat sink to squish it to a nice even coverage. I spread it myself, first. Honestly, people getting their panties in a twist over thermal paste application are ignoring one thing: as long as you have ENOUGH thermal paste, you’re fine. I go by the rule “spread it like Vegemite, not like Nutella”, which should mean nothing to anyone outside of Australia, but honestly, the inefficiencies of using too much thermal paste are tiny, and the consequences far better than using not enough.
Wow never expected the G4 Chip in the PowerBook G3 To run OS X 10.6 Beta on it that's just mind blowing O_O
*YOU USED THE PERFECT AMOUNT OF THERMAL COMPOUND!!!!!!*
No snow leopard ! Regular Leopard... Because intel needed...
Loved it I saved a pismo from the recycling center it is a rarer 500ms g3 with 256 mg of ram and I live it and uses it almost every day
That’s so cool!
@@MaxOakland thank you
Nice, but I am surprised that no 3rd party created an "Intel" upgrade CPU board for the pismo, given the RAM, CPU, and possibly what appears to be the BIOS and/or even other key components located on the same board, it should't be a too monumental task to, lets say, create an Intel i5 board with two DDR4 SODIMM slots. The Pismo laptop would only be limited by the performance of the 90's integrated GPU, unless that too happens to be included in the same board, if that's the case, then doing a total upgrade would be possible on the very same hardware.
Alright, my take would be that it has never been done because there would probably be some roadblocks that would make something like this not work, otherwise, some 3rd party manufacturer would have created plenty of Intel CPU board upgrades for the Pismo by now.
Bus speed.
A little notice: i saw something horrifying when you installed the cpu card back into the machine, you only want to put pressure on the bottom right corner where the card connects to the main board, if you push on the top right, you actually can cause some serious problems, my dad did this once with my mom's pismo after a ram upgrade, he pushed on both sides, and when the machine was back together and my mom turned it on, smoke came out of the laptop, because the ram got dislodged from the slot due to the pressure he putted where it wasn't needed and that caused the cpu board to die, he found a replacement module pretty quickly, but in modern times, it could be quite the opposite.
I saved for months from my first real job to get a pismo, loved that laptop!
They look so classy
Plenty of good games "could" run on this :) Quake 3 / Warcraft 3 / ONI ! they would at least run great on the souped up cube :D
idk what this stuff is but look guys numbers
Now we need Crysis on a G4 Cube, with all those upgrades it should work right? Oh and you can only use Os9.
Na man it's gotta be Crysis Warhead 😉
Intalls on mac os leopardo for mac os Mavericks
i've said it before but I'll say it again: God I wish I had a Pismo
I kinda wish you had a second, broken one of those, so that you could have
a) used gallons
b) of toothpaste or mayonnaise,
c) spread it around with a butterknife (maybe with some jelly on it to make it look used for comedic effect)
d) and then hit it with a hammer.
🤣🤣🤣
Please boot back into the SL image and hit cmd fn F5 to enable VoiceOver and let us hear how long it takes to start lol
oh god
You should do a video of Linux running on a PPC Mac, I'd be quite interested in that!
You should try installing Debian PowerPC to REALLY bring that old PPC macbook up to date; well at least around circa 2010 where Debian stopped PPC development, but anyway, you probably could surf the web with Firefox 2010-version 500% better than with Safari under macos
There's a modern distro, Adelie, that I really want to try on here. I have it on my G3 iMac already and it's pretty fast even there!
@@ActionRetro Great, it's based on Debian and it took off from Jessie's ending
I actually had one of the G3s that dosdude1 himself modded up. T'was a 550MHz G4 and him or someone else grafted a SuperDrive into one of the expansion bays. Looked like garbage, but it worked!
Thing did run stupid hot though. In fact if you actually removed the keyboard and touched the heat sink while it was running you'd definitely burn yourself. I never liked to run it for extended periods of time because of that.
Passed it off to a friend of mine because while I had grandiose plans for it (battery rebuild maybe?) it was one of those things I felt I was never going to get around to.
Pi-slow is more like it, it did NOT like having snow leopard on it. xD
I just found mine to be in perfect condition so, I am determined to use this computer for music playing in the future with some DAC amp and studio monitors. I just need a new RAM HDD cable, and power adapter to have it work. Thank you for letting me know that SSDs can be used with the machine, I know the maximum HDD it can support is 128GB so I`m gonna go with that. The 500MHZ factory CPU board is in mine already.
By the way, how did you pump up the results? The new one shows 1024GB of RAM while the old one has 512MB. So, you know more ram means unleashed power.
This might quite possibly be my favorite Mac of any I've ever owned.
Own this model and, I feel it is the best designed laptop Apple Computer ever made. With dual “hot changeable” right and left side expansion bays, upgradable RAM, upgradable Hard Drive, and upgradable Power PC processor, plus two USB ports and two Fire-wire 400 ports it had it all for a system built 20-years ago. Even today, whenever I am using mine it always brings a smile to my face.
congrats! i have a powerbook pismo upgraded with a 867mhz g4 upgrade and a radion 9200 64mb GPU and 1gb of ram and a dvd drive and even a floppy drive os x sees the floppy as a 1.44mb external hdd! lol! i dual boot mac os lepord 10.5.7 and ubuntu 12.10 on my pismo. i think all that laggyness in SL 10.6 beta was that 16mb ati mobilty rage 128 i ran that thing in lepord oce and it has all of those artifacts also so its gpu wise and also nice job i didnt even think that it could boot the SL10.6 PPC beta! oh also i ran lepord on a old 450 poermac g4 quicksilver with a 8mb ati Xpernt 98 8mb and it was like 10 times worse! anyway congrats! great vid! (im commenting now on the pismo it does 720p youtube fine in icewesaal PPC)
The thermal paste liked perfect.
I wonder if the test results were due to having to reset the machine to defaults.... Did it perform better after another restart or two?
Doppelgänger: My sister was a teacher for the San Diego school district and she introduced me to a 128k. I invested several years learning about computers by purchasing over 60+ retro Apple-Macintosh computers; Centra, Performa, Wallstreet, ColorClassics, Duo Docs, printers and a lot of their accessories. I spent a lot of hours downloading Apple PDFs. Years ago, I did a catch-and-release and took most of these CPUs to goodwill so others could continue the Evangelism. Please support Mr Action Retro and other retro gurus. Today, I still have some of the older ram chips. Now I have to get this Thinkpad monkey off my back. I wish I had joined some of these cool-kids back-in the-day but your never to old to have fun.
Had a Pismo until selling it in 2008. Threw a ‘Fast Mac’ G4/550 CPU daughter card in and it worked really well with optimized apps. But the Intel Mac Book Pros were just too good to pass over and I needed the extra green.
It's insane that this machine can support 1GB of RAM. A LAPTOP from the year 2000. The Pentium III was the contemporary Intel equivalent at the time, and most chipsets (such as the i810/i815) could support a maximum of 512MB RAM. So for a mobile device to support 1GB is bonkers.
11:30 It is funny that you didnt look into details. Because just like in Geekbench 2/3/4/5, the "Combined score" simply doesnt matter because it is based on the individual results but combined together. That is not accurate for comparison purposes.
Anyways, 500mhz vs 400mhz is not an upgrade at all, while there is like 20% increase in raw performance, that is not enough to justify the upgrade. I was hoping for 1GHz :(
you know, I got purchased this computer in almost mint condition, max ram and already ssd mod. I'm in search of the G4 mod now, apparently not only is hard to find, but very expensive, regardless of who made it. You channel and videos are sick, a motivation for guys like me that love old hardware, please keep at it. Do you have any G3 clamshell videos ?
Wow, Snow Leopard? More like SLOW Leopard! 😆 Speaking of making Mac OS run on machines it was never supposed to, I just installed Big Sur on my NUC! Have you ever built a hackintosh? I'm guessing it's a little out of scope for your channel though, since it seems like you're mostly focused on classic and PPC Macs.
12:16 I wonder if the rendering test slowdowns are from the amount of RAM? On PCs of that vintage, it wasn't always possible to cache 100% of the max RAM you could install in a motherboard, so lower-RAM configurations would outperform higher-RAM configurations, all other components being the same.
Software graphics rendering depends heavily on RAM being cached; maybe the same thing is happening here?
The compound application could have been a little better centered, and I would have used just a tiny bit more, and I’d have used a different paste entirely (I’m partial to Noctua’s NT-H1) but A. It’s not my machine and B. It pretty much doesn’t matter for this application, it probably doesn’t run hot enough for minute details like that to matter just as long as you have *something* there. I also believe that you cleaned off the remnants of an old thermal pad, not paste, which bolsters my assertion.
Another thing, some tests were probably slower because your G4 doesn’t appear to have any level 2 cache. I might have missed it in the listing but for your G3 it said it had 1024K, but no such line in your test on the G4.
Stuff like this makes me want to get ahold of a cheap iBook to kick around OS X, but then I got one, and I kind of went, “Okay, this is cool... so, what now?” Because as a Windows/Linux guy myself, I find the software library of PPC Macs in particular to be a big limit.
Leopard would run better on it any day, it would have basic GPU acceleration even if QE/CI wouldn’t be supported, it would have acceleration to the point where some 2D and some 2D stuff is rendered by GPU
It’s difficult to explain but right now Impossible Cat is the equivalent to macOS without GPU
I still use my Pismo daily for writing books, screenplays, lyrics to my music, making slide shows, editing jpgs, and on and on. The G4 processor I have is ill and I would love to get another G4 processor. Reward for finding one for me. Thanks
Damm, well build, upgradable computer with nice expandability, all what the mac is not anymore......
It reminds me the Amiga where the CPU are on cards and allow it to expand on PPC from 68000 easily.