If you don't want to do real lamination and are ok with a hackier solution, you can also stick the sheet into a ziploc bag and dry erase on the bag. It doesn't erase as well, but you can clean it with water or replace the bag.
At least errors on the sheet can easily be traced back and fixed (though it will take some time), but it's true, if you place the token in the wrong place, you're screwed. If you manage to bump your "lab" and have all the tokens fall out, the game is pretty much over for you. With that in mind, I'm happy to say that the replacement tokens fit perfectly and aren't at risk of just falling out. The replacement stuff also includes almost all the other tokens (they just send out the punch boards containing the relevant tokens, you get a spare set of almost everything else). My OCD is also please by the fact that while they don't include labs with correctly places color bars, they come with large stickers to correct that issue (this had absolutely no effect on the game, so it's unexpected and appreciated that they still bother fixing it).
Kaja is such a cutie, but asides that, this game looks very intriguing and tons of replayability. I'm sure I'd get wrecked as I'm not very good with deduction, but I would love to play it and try it out! Components are gorgeous also!
I think Joanna is lovely too but what impresses me most is both of their outstanding descriptions and reviews! Well done ladies! And the sound/editing is great too... well done Carla and Kersten!
The only AP side of the game is how many -/+ do I have to cross out or which materials do I need to craft the right potion. Other then that - the game is not a deduction game at all, unless you can remmember which cards your opponents took and still have luck hitting the right ones (since useage is secret). Basically the game is really simple. There is 1/8 chance of taking the right shot with each DIFFERENT POTION you make double the chances of making the right anwser. There is no real deduction aspect here since it's all random (you don't have almost any info what could craft which potion with a certain material until the late-game/game ending). That said: - 0 potion color = 1/8 chance - 1 potion color = 1/4 chance on 2 ingredients - 2 potion colors = 1/2 chance to get the right formula (this is what you're going for) - 3 potion colors = 100% chance to get the right formula Deduction aspect comes when you get info from the thesis and bunking, but why would anyone risk if you can lose more then gain? For such a complex (in rules) game, it's highly luck dependant as also there is not really a lot of deduction here. The AP problem comes from managing which 2 mats give you what. I found this game to be quite dull, since it takes ~2 hours and there's not much to it. In the time you could have played better games and have more fun. You might not agree but I got 43 points on my first game and the same game I could've gotten 50 points if I knew how to gain points early on.
There's more deduction-related strategy there than you're giving it credit for. Your first potion is completely random, but as soon as you have that first potion (say it's made of A and B) recorded, you have a meaningful choice to make, which is whether you go for an AC (to learn more about A, hoping to publish about it) or a CD (to learn more about the puzzle as a whole, hoping to publish about lots of things). These are not equivalent, but at the same time one is not strictly better than the other. This difference broadens as the game goes on. What sucks to me is that there really are possible mixes that are just worse for you, and at least early in the game there is very little you can do to reduce the probability of them occurring. For example, AB = R+ and then CD = R- is just awful, by far and away the worst possible outcome for that second experiment.
Medium to high. The first few games, it'll take a while to figure out how the entire component / potion system works, so making decisions off those is an issue. Also, there are a lot of options on your turn so it can bog down if someone likes to analyse every single step and dithers on their guesses.
There are like 3 things you can do on your turn.. Gather cards / Sell cards for gold / sell a potion (to get info, gold or both) / buy an item (if any is left) / bunk or set a thesis / test a potion (which is worse then selling it). That said you will most likely do gather/sell potion or test it/buy artifact on your turn OR gather/bunk & add a thesis. It's really simple.. Also the things you get for going later an of such help you should only go for being first when you NEED to buy artifact or set a thesis which never happens early.
You can use a game master, there's a component included in the box for doing that. I can't recommend it, though. It would be very boring to the game master, and yet would require them to make checks sufficiently often that they can't *really* go do something else for most of the game. You'd be better off having a device that you just only use when you play app-based board games, rather than actually trying to use a game master.
You mentioned in 7:56 that "the app does a really nice job of demonstrating how technology can be used to enhance the game"... wait until VR is merged in board games and then we can speak of actual technology that enhances board games :) Great review !
IMO less is more sometimes. This game would be fun with the pure deduction part. Unfortunately they created a monster by adding the worker placement part to it.
I love getting a female perspective on all of these games. The industry is so male dominated and I love to pick and research games my wife will enjoy as well. I think you both give a much needed voice to the industry. Thank you for your knowledge and expertise.
This game looks really good. My wife and I played it for the first time yesterday. We didn't enjoy it at all, but at least it looks good. It's over produced, imo. We were disappointed to find out this game is mostly a bluffing game. We were expecting a deduction game and it's just not that. You are not given the time to do a true deduction of everything while still being able to juggle all the other aspects of the game. The game evolves into a bluffing/social deduction game. Social deduction isn't deduction, it's inference. Lame. You spend so much of the game trying to balance your currency and reputation that you lose focus on the deduction as the primary motivator for the game. We didn't like that.
Rico Cordova A friend of mine found the same issue. For me, as someone who doesn't enjoy pure deduction games this game was a revelation. I enjoy the puzzle but I like the fact the bluffing becomes important. it's a weird niche. But yes, if you want pure deduction this is going to feel like a missed opportunity because the deduction part is very clever and fairly challenging. It is possible to play this with just cards and app as deduction only I believe.
I dunno, I didn't find bluffing to be that useful in this game. If you publish a bad theory, best case is that no one else has enough information and you hedged correctly, so you get 1 point for publishing and lose 0 at the end of the game for a +1 total... that's not a lot. On the other hand, if someone debunks you, they get 2 points and you either get 0 (if hedged correctly) or lose 4 points (if not). Plus, they could then publish the correct theory for even more points - a HUGE swing in their favor. So basically, if you knowingly publish a bad theory, best case is you get 1 point from it, worst case is you lose 4 points and your opponent gets 8 (2 for debunk, 1 for re-publishing the correct one, 5 for the most they can get from the seal at the end) for a 12 point swing... doesn't seem worth it. To me, it's more a race to be the first to solve as much as possible, and publish as fast as possible. If you solve one of the ingredients and publish it correctly, the best anyone else can do about that is endorse you, which gives you extra gold (and takes it away from them) so that you can hopefully stay in the lead. And I like that they prevented a "run-away leader" with the seals. That's probably the best touch - you need to try to be as sure as possible when you publish, because even if you are right, your opponents could actually get more points off your own research than you got if you were unsure and hedged or only used a 3 star seal.
Matt Julson - you forgot to add that it's NOT DEDUCTION that could lead to fast solving the formula but PURE LUCK. My friend did so many potions and every single time he got a BLUE POTION +/-. He had no info whatsoever to be able to set up a thesis.. He ended up having 11 points, another person 14 point and me 40.. that was really a lame match up..
@@loki665zx9It is possible to systematically avoid that "always get the same color" problem. Once you know four ingredients are, say, blue+, then you should now pair ingredients from those four with the other four, so that you get a chance of getting green potions. This is why I really dislike the big+little explanation, it's technically correct but it doesn't explain how the big/little is assigned. A more convenient way to think about it is: to make a red, the greens must be different; to make a blue, the reds must be different; to make a green, the blues must be different.
I want to say something about the 'makeup & hair's part in the description. But at the same time, I don't want to! The video is nice, you look nice, but looks are irrelevant to a review. But it helps the video! aargh!
I dislike this app nonsense. Not every has a smart device. What happens when app support goes away? You are SOL with this game. Just let board games be board games.
@Severian Wintermute If you have a smartphone, you can download the app and as long as you have the charger, you can keep using the same app (until the phone breaks down) without updating it to use the app to play the game. The app doesn't need to be updated once downloaded. Also, in the situation that the makers of the game decide not to provide an updated app for future versions of smartphones (which is highly unlikely), the people at BGG and fans of the game will create one. I understand that you may not wish to mix technology with board games and you are entitled to your opinion, and there will be many board games that will be created in the future that will not need the use of an app so you will never have to soil your hands on games that require electronic devices. Ironically, one of the first board games I've played is Nightmare which is a classic example of a game that utilizes the technology at the time to create a fun experience. Back then, people used the argument that what if VHS became obsolete, we can't play Nightmare again. Now, even though VHS is no longer a viable technology to have, you can still use the uploaded videos on youtube to play the game; if history has taught us anything, if there's a will, there's a way. Additionally, please don't begrudge games like Nightmare, Operation and now Alchemists for being innovative with technology as they will attract and introduce young audiences to a genre of games they would have never played if it was not for the gimmick. If it was not for that game or games like Operation, I wouldn't have over $8000 worth of board games in my collection today. Games like Alchemists, although not your style of games, is healthy for the industry and will help it grow. Thank you for listening.
Also, they have an option for Game Master, where can have a player play the role of the app. Which is a great way for someone who knows the game to act as while teaching other players (Perfect for conventions), or someone who doesn't really want to play but still learn the rules / participate with hanging out.
@@ryanw9123 By the way, fans have reverse-engineered the algorithm for encoding Alchemists worlds into the four letter string, so it indeed would be possible for fans to reconstruct the app if CGE discontinued it.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
We laminated the note pages and use dry erase markers.
If you don't want to do real lamination and are ok with a hackier solution, you can also stick the sheet into a ziploc bag and dry erase on the bag. It doesn't erase as well, but you can clean it with water or replace the bag.
Don't ever quit making this show
Another great review!
I miss this show so much.
At least errors on the sheet can easily be traced back and fixed (though it will take some time), but it's true, if you place the token in the wrong place, you're screwed. If you manage to bump your "lab" and have all the tokens fall out, the game is pretty much over for you.
With that in mind, I'm happy to say that the replacement tokens fit perfectly and aren't at risk of just falling out. The replacement stuff also includes almost all the other tokens (they just send out the punch boards containing the relevant tokens, you get a spare set of almost everything else). My OCD is also please by the fact that while they don't include labs with correctly places color bars, they come with large stickers to correct that issue (this had absolutely no effect on the game, so it's unexpected and appreciated that they still bother fixing it).
Kaja is such a cutie, but asides that, this game looks very intriguing and tons of replayability. I'm sure I'd get wrecked as I'm not very good with deduction, but I would love to play it and try it out! Components are gorgeous also!
I think Joanna is lovely too but what impresses me most is both of their outstanding descriptions and reviews! Well done ladies! And the sound/editing is great too... well done Carla and Kersten!
The only AP side of the game is how many -/+ do I have to cross out or which materials do I need to craft the right potion.
Other then that - the game is not a deduction game at all, unless you can remmember which cards your opponents took and still have luck hitting the right ones (since useage is secret).
Basically the game is really simple. There is 1/8 chance of taking the right shot with each DIFFERENT POTION you make double the chances of making the right anwser.
There is no real deduction aspect here since it's all random (you don't have almost any info what could craft which potion with a certain material until the late-game/game ending).
That said:
- 0 potion color = 1/8 chance
- 1 potion color = 1/4 chance on 2 ingredients
- 2 potion colors = 1/2 chance to get the right formula (this is what you're going for)
- 3 potion colors = 100% chance to get the right formula
Deduction aspect comes when you get info from the thesis and bunking, but why would anyone risk if you can lose more then gain?
For such a complex (in rules) game, it's highly luck dependant as also there is not really a lot of deduction here. The AP problem comes from managing which 2 mats give you what.
I found this game to be quite dull, since it takes ~2 hours and there's not much to it. In the time you could have played better games and have more fun.
You might not agree but I got 43 points on my first game and the same game I could've gotten 50 points if I knew how to gain points early on.
There's more deduction-related strategy there than you're giving it credit for. Your first potion is completely random, but as soon as you have that first potion (say it's made of A and B) recorded, you have a meaningful choice to make, which is whether you go for an AC (to learn more about A, hoping to publish about it) or a CD (to learn more about the puzzle as a whole, hoping to publish about lots of things). These are not equivalent, but at the same time one is not strictly better than the other. This difference broadens as the game goes on.
What sucks to me is that there really are possible mixes that are just worse for you, and at least early in the game there is very little you can do to reduce the probability of them occurring. For example, AB = R+ and then CD = R- is just awful, by far and away the worst possible outcome for that second experiment.
Time for a comeback!
Great review! One question: How susceptible is this game to AP?
Medium to high. The first few games, it'll take a while to figure out how the entire component / potion system works, so making decisions off those is an issue. Also, there are a lot of options on your turn so it can bog down if someone likes to analyse every single step and dithers on their guesses.
+George “Crazy Spaniard” Morgan It's a lot heavier than I had expected!
There are like 3 things you can do on your turn..
Gather cards / Sell cards for gold / sell a potion (to get info, gold or both) / buy an item (if any is left) / bunk or set a thesis / test a potion (which is worse then selling it).
That said you will most likely do gather/sell potion or test it/buy artifact on your turn OR gather/bunk & add a thesis.
It's really simple.. Also the things you get for going later an of such help you should only go for being first when you NEED to buy artifact or set a thesis which never happens early.
Do you need the phone app or can you use a moderator or something along those lines instead of the phone?
You can use a game master, there's a component included in the box for doing that. I can't recommend it, though. It would be very boring to the game master, and yet would require them to make checks sufficiently often that they can't *really* go do something else for most of the game. You'd be better off having a device that you just only use when you play app-based board games, rather than actually trying to use a game master.
You mentioned in 7:56 that "the app does a really nice job of demonstrating how technology can be used to enhance the game"... wait until VR is merged in board games and then we can speak of actual technology that enhances board games :) Great review !
Want want want!
this game tops my want list... i've preorderd it already :)
does it come with the Philosopher's Stone? if not, i'm not interested. too thinky.
IMO less is more sometimes. This game would be fun with the pure deduction part. Unfortunately they created a monster by adding the worker placement part to it.
i love monsters =)
Worker placement improve replayablity and adapt strategy so the game doesn't get board after a few plays
I love getting a female perspective on all of these games. The industry is so male dominated and I love to pick and research games my wife will enjoy as well. I think you both give a much needed voice to the industry. Thank you for your knowledge and expertise.
This game looks really good. My wife and I played it for the first time yesterday. We didn't enjoy it at all, but at least it looks good. It's over produced, imo.
We were disappointed to find out this game is mostly a bluffing game. We were expecting a deduction game and it's just not that. You are not given the time to do a true deduction of everything while still being able to juggle all the other aspects of the game. The game evolves into a bluffing/social deduction game. Social deduction isn't deduction, it's inference. Lame.
You spend so much of the game trying to balance your currency and reputation that you lose focus on the deduction as the primary motivator for the game. We didn't like that.
Rico Cordova A friend of mine found the same issue. For me, as someone who doesn't enjoy pure deduction games this game was a revelation. I enjoy the puzzle but I like the fact the bluffing becomes important. it's a weird niche. But yes, if you want pure deduction this is going to feel like a missed opportunity because the deduction part is very clever and fairly challenging. It is possible to play this with just cards and app as deduction only I believe.
I dunno, I didn't find bluffing to be that useful in this game. If you publish a bad theory, best case is that no one else has enough information and you hedged correctly, so you get 1 point for publishing and lose 0 at the end of the game for a +1 total... that's not a lot.
On the other hand, if someone debunks you, they get 2 points and you either get 0 (if hedged correctly) or lose 4 points (if not). Plus, they could then publish the correct theory for even more points - a HUGE swing in their favor. So basically, if you knowingly publish a bad theory, best case is you get 1 point from it, worst case is you lose 4 points and your opponent gets 8 (2 for debunk, 1 for re-publishing the correct one, 5 for the most they can get from the seal at the end) for a 12 point swing... doesn't seem worth it.
To me, it's more a race to be the first to solve as much as possible, and publish as fast as possible. If you solve one of the ingredients and publish it correctly, the best anyone else can do about that is endorse you, which gives you extra gold (and takes it away from them) so that you can hopefully stay in the lead.
And I like that they prevented a "run-away leader" with the seals. That's probably the best touch - you need to try to be as sure as possible when you publish, because even if you are right, your opponents could actually get more points off your own research than you got if you were unsure and hedged or only used a 3 star seal.
Matt Julson - you forgot to add that it's NOT DEDUCTION that could lead to fast solving the formula but PURE LUCK.
My friend did so many potions and every single time he got a BLUE POTION +/-. He had no info whatsoever to be able to set up a thesis..
He ended up having 11 points, another person 14 point and me 40.. that was really a lame match up..
@@loki665zx9It is possible to systematically avoid that "always get the same color" problem. Once you know four ingredients are, say, blue+, then you should now pair ingredients from those four with the other four, so that you get a chance of getting green potions. This is why I really dislike the big+little explanation, it's technically correct but it doesn't explain how the big/little is assigned. A more convenient way to think about it is: to make a red, the greens must be different; to make a blue, the reds must be different; to make a green, the blues must be different.
I want to say something about the 'makeup & hair's part in the description. But at the same time, I don't want to! The video is nice, you look nice, but looks are irrelevant to a review. But it helps the video! aargh!
I dislike this app nonsense. Not every has a smart device. What happens when app support goes away? You are SOL with this game. Just let board games be board games.
@Severian Wintermute If you have a smartphone, you can download the app and as long as you have the charger, you can keep using the same app (until the phone breaks down) without updating it to use the app to play the game. The app doesn't need to be updated once downloaded. Also, in the situation that the makers of the game decide not to provide an updated app for future versions of smartphones (which is highly unlikely), the people at BGG and fans of the game will create one. I understand that you may not wish to mix technology with board games and you are entitled to your opinion, and there will be many board games that will be created in the future that will not need the use of an app so you will never have to soil your hands on games that require electronic devices. Ironically, one of the first board games I've played is Nightmare which is a classic example of a game that utilizes the technology at the time to create a fun experience. Back then, people used the argument that what if VHS became obsolete, we can't play Nightmare again. Now, even though VHS is no longer a viable technology to have, you can still use the uploaded videos on youtube to play the game; if history has taught us anything, if there's a will, there's a way. Additionally, please don't begrudge games like Nightmare, Operation and now Alchemists for being innovative with technology as they will attract and introduce young audiences to a genre of games they would have never played if it was not for the gimmick. If it was not for that game or games like Operation, I wouldn't have over $8000 worth of board games in my collection today. Games like Alchemists, although not your style of games, is healthy for the industry and will help it grow. Thank you for listening.
Also, they have an option for Game Master, where can have a player play the role of the app. Which is a great way for someone who knows the game to act as while teaching other players (Perfect for conventions), or someone who doesn't really want to play but still learn the rules / participate with hanging out.
@@ryanw9123 By the way, fans have reverse-engineered the algorithm for encoding Alchemists worlds into the four letter string, so it indeed would be possible for fans to reconstruct the app if CGE discontinued it.
Another great review!