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This! I was telling my friends about how you have to pick army rule or detachment rule and they just weren't getting it. I personally think you hit the nail on the head across the board. It was honestly really gratifying to hear my own opinions validated on every single point. Means my understanding of sisters has grown. Making those units always righteous, making it so the first few strats could actually be used/considered for non righteous units. The comparisons to army of faith or hallowed martyrs were pretty rough. The consolidate and fall back/shoot/charge very good. It being really hard to justify taking Celestians over Battle Sisters or Repentia. Great vid, concise, amusing, informative.
Celestians should have gotten Righteous all the time automatically. That would have made the detachment more thematic and would fix the Miracle Dice drought.
If celestians were always righteous, I would never play a different detachment. This detachment would have been great if that were the case. Instead, we got a detachment that only ever affects at most a third of our army with terrible enhancements and unplayable strategems.
@@dudemcfurgusson7179 yeah, it would have great but hardly broken considering the cost of Celestians plus them only having pistols and melee weapons for their offensive output.
Ooh epic! So, for Grotmas I got: - A terrible Aeldari Detachment that is a downgrade in pretty much every way from the index detachment, even in the very narrow niche it aims for. - An interesting, but nigh impossible to play around Drukhari detachment, which requires me to run models of a different faction I only have a handful of currently. - A Sisters detachment that would have been great before they gutted the MD generation, and made absolutely no effort to rework after said MD change. Coal... I got coal...
I’m in the same boat, sisters obviously, votann’s detachment ignores their army rule for like the first 2 or 3 turns, death guard looks good but they’re my newest army and I just don’t have the infantry models to play it effectively
I got a guard detachment that buffs two units I don't play. A sisters detachment that is perhaps even more hungry in miracle dive than the one I stopped playing because I lack MD. And a tyranide detachment that allow me to buff my six warriors..... Grotmas is not the same for everyone XD
I got a guard detachment that buffs two units I don't play. A sisters detachment that is perhaps even more hungry in miracle dive than the one I stopped playing because I lack MD. And a tyranide detachment that allow me to buff my six warriors..... Grotmas is not the same for everyone XD
There already are ways to spend low dice. What this is is a detachment that demands 1 die minimum to get the rule after a rule update that halved the number of dice you get.
Between Vahl, Hospitallers, Palatine, and the righteous rage enhancement, I literally already didn't have enough MD, even before the changes knocked out 60-70% of them.
Ok, lets do a little bit of a rant... Please keep in mind, I'm a Sisters player and I'm a little bit pissed at this point... And please keep also in mind before any of you comments something like "You can put in a 6 from a miracle dice", you have to have a 6 in your miracle dice pool in the first place, That is not always the chase. It began with 10th edition, big nerf to melters... Melters being the main way Sisters could deal with Armour. Range reduced by 6 inches, strength reduced, ant at the same time buffed every single tank in the game in regards to toughness. With their dedicated anti-tank shooting attack, Sister could damage a Tank only on a wound roll of a 5+. Sisters are (at least as far as I know) the ONLY army that has a max strength on shooting of a 10 (and that only on the Exorcist, and the Castigator). The Retributor squad, the dedicated anti-tank unit has melters with a strength of 9, and can wound a Rhino only on a 5+. The only way to somehow reliable kill a tank is Paragon Wetsuits with Maces. Have you ever wondered why you never see a Battlereport "Sisters vs Knights" ??? Nobody wants so see an army who cannot take anti tank against a pure Tankforce. Then came the Bringers of Flame... we got +1 Str within 12 inches... Melters with Str 10... it began to make sense to shoot at a Rhino... NICE... Then came the (im)balance Dataslate... 6 Inches... I ask myself: why didnt the make melters into pistols with the special rule "you can only fire melters in engagement range"??? Oh and did I mention... they reduced the range for the +1 from 12 to 6 inches only for the Sisters... Salamanders still get the full 12 inches... I'm not exactly sure, but I believe, it has something to do with the fact have a counterpart to the Retributors... the Devastator Squad, where you get double the wounds, higher toughness, better weapons, and a better unit rule for 5 points less... and btw. you get also a better leadership... The Sisters of Battle, the army who has a martyr themed detachment, the army who wants to die in battle has the same leadership as a Imperial Guardsmen... Half of the Space Marine Legions fell to chaos... including their Primarchs... How many Traitor Sororitas Orders are known in the lore??? Who is more easily corrupted??? And who has the better leadership??? That is lorewise on the same level as female Custodes... I'm just massively pissed atm.. Not because the rules got worse, and Sisters got nerfed, but because i feel I'm not treated equal.
It started way before that. In 8th, we went from "A flamer might hit every model in a unit. If they want to bunch up so they can all charge into close combat, you'll hit heaps of them with a template" to "1d6 hits, so it's just good for layering hits onto characters" and we went from "a melta can blast a vehicle to pieces in one shot" to "a melta can't one-shot even the weakest tanks".
@@MGPW I'm sorry, i dont know that, i started at the end of 8th Edition. But if they change flamers in general, then its a thing that changes for all armys equaly. If sisters had access to lascannons, or grav-cannons i would not complain. My Problem is, I dont want to win every match while im Drunk and asleep because my army is overpowered, but i want the feeling that i have a chance. And right now, i dont have that feeling...
I so badly wanted a all footslogging Sister in power armour Detachment, and this is what we got.. *insert we were on the verge of greatness, we were this close meme*. Negativity aside this detachment can be made decent with some tweaks, remove the MD requirement for righteous, tweak the strats to be at least on par with the Army of Faith without the MD generation and the enhancements and you know give us back our gun Celestians. Ok these aren't a few tweaks.
This definitely feels like it was written before the balance patch. I'm also surprised that there isn't an enhancement that says "The bearer and their unit is Righteous"!
you summed up my issues with this detachment perfectly. All in all, I don't mind the detachment as a whole, but I don't like 'paying to have a detachment rule'. I very much dislike that.
Yeah, detachment rules should all at least one passive rule for all the game. Like here, it could have been "All your army has +1 to hit against ennemies on an objective. In addition, if you pay a miracle dice, one unit get advance and charge, and get +1 leadership".
What a terrific detachment!! That's automatically dead on Arrival because the balance team and the detatchment team didnt think to communicate at all. It will literally perform at 1/3rd the intent it was designed for. I'd say going back to BoF but thnking I need to just..go back to any other army lol
Its even more apparent when you consider Gene Stealer Cult is at 61% win rate, and they got buffs and a pretty decent detachment. Yet Sororitas were dead nuts 50% and got hit harder than Eldar when that had a 78% win rate. Crazy
I thought about it and came to the conclusion that it isn't hate, but pure laziness. They hate dice substitution, but they couldn't be bothered to scratch Miracle Dice and put different rule they'd be ok with in their stead. Nope, just destroy it and do not bother about any replacement. Similarly, this detachment was clearly written before last nerfs, but GW could't be bothered to coordinate group for nerfs and group for new detachments. Or alternately they knew that last nerfs would make this detachment unplayable before it even got published and just thought "Fuck it! We do not care about them anyway."
Giving us back Celestians with guns would've been a decent "sorry for gutting your army rule" gift. This detachment would've been perfect for them. Sacresants rushing in to take objectives and hold lines. Paragon warsuits as the backbone of the army to deal with troublesome enemy units. Celestians with guns to provide support where needed. I hadn't thought about possibly making the three units righteous by default. With how few MD we get, it would be much more realistic. Here's to hoping the next update gives us anything to latch onto because I have this weird feeling that the MD changes will never be reverted.
Honestly all i really want is for Paragons themselves to be cheaper and to maybe have a generic leader for them... They do not feel like they should cost more than a castigator.
not always. Anything with precision attacks with delete the hospitaller with ease. Everyone has access to it in combat with a character, so chances are, if they charge you (attack first), you wont benefit from that 5FNP at all in combat. Any sniper unit (most are 60 points) will do so from safety.
@@guillercuasticoYou would get 5+++ for that activation even if they precision the character. So that would reduce some damage, but 200 points is a lot if you don't get to maximize the FNP value and also get some damage in
@@danielhughes3758it’s stupidly easy to snipe out a hospitaler. Even if you don’t sacresants just aren’t tough. -1 to wound means they are still wounding you on 3’s. You just always end up with too many saves and even with a 4++ it’s only ten wounds or 15 with a hospitaler to kill the sacresants. That’s really not that hard. And with a hospitaler their hit back is quite weak.
@bensemusx I'm not saying they're super durable. I was just pointing out that they do get the 5+++ for one activation at least even if the opponent attacks with precision since you said you wouldn't get the 5+++ at all. Even so, I agree they seem a bit lackluster
"Tell me your rules writers have never even talked to each other without making it obvious", the detachment. Even if they unscrew miracle dice next update, I really don't see this getting much play unless you have Morvenn Vahl because it feels like most of the strategems are mostly "another detachment does this better". Maybe if you could choose to not gain miracle dice for a battleround in order to make the entire army Righteous (or at Suits, Sacrosancts, and Battle Sisters) for said battleround as a sort of Sisters version of a Waaagh! it would work better. I don't know. This makes me happier that my group elected to ignore the miracle dice generation nerfs for the sake of our Battle Sisters player.
I so badly wanted a elite infantry detachment like a less flying version of AoF and I so desperately want to run the celestial secs, thematically I was the type of person this detachment should have been for but this would have been insulting before the MD nerf. Off to the shelf sisters, I will miss you.
Been using Sacresants a lot in Hallowed Martyr since the last BoF nerf. They're honestly just... alright. I never once charged something and thought "they'll win". They're an adequate Palatine delivery system. Wish they had a 2+ save or a hefty point drop.
Vahl and the palatine already get buffs from “junk” miracles. All they had to do to control miracle dice generation was put restrictions on values of dice generated in certain ways. Like maybe your once per turn dice would be face value but you’re unit-death dice would be capped at 4 or something. That way you’re not overpowered by as often plugging 6’s into melta damage or AP-3 save rolls, but you still have uses for the dice, and there are also plenty of times when a 3 or 4 is all you need to plug into an important roll. There were ways to nerf miracle dice that aren’t completely removing a portion of the dice.
1) The need for miracle dice makes half the strats weak or worthless and the detachment rule itself is nearly non-existent. a) Any strat that confers a bonus to a Righteous unit has a minimum cost of 1 die in addition to the CP. b) Eyes of the Oracle Enhancement refunds 1CP if you kill a unit, not a Miracle Die. c) There is no way to gain additional dice. You just have to wait for sisters to die if you want more or spam the field with simulacra. This is an overall problem with the army and will make it less elite than before, but you still have to pay the BoF tax for the time being despite the nerf. 2) Many rules reference Celestian Sacresants but are in fact better on Paragon Warsuits. a) Fall Back and shoot/charge is far more powerful on Warsuits because their guns are far better. b) Extra str on halberds brings them to str6 which is good and AP 3 is also good, but that AP is far more valuable on Warsuits as they have damage 2 and Vahl refunds a die. Celestians are being led by a Palatine anyway who deals mortals at the cost of 1 die which is superior to the detachment buff for the same cost especially since the Mark of Devotion enhancement gives her another attack. 3) Detachment rule is bad part two. a) +1" move is kind of useless considering how mechanized the army already is plus the Triumph existing. b) Improve leadership by 1. LMAO. The only use for this is Junith to give you 1CP on a 5+ leadership test which costs you a die you are in short supply of. c) +1 to hit is the detachment rule of Hallowed Martyrs if you have lost a single wound. With this you can get that +1 at the cost of a die. Terrible. d) Sacresants have +1OC while battleshocked. LMAO. You aren't point holding with these girls.
I think my adjustment to this would be maybe either 2 units per dice or maybe they give you a set amount of dice at the beginning, otherwise you are using all units for making miracle dices and simulacrums. Not impossible to build around but eh, I'll probably run it on a 1k list as less units to think about making righteous but 2k might be more linear. I also think maybe just give Sister an amount of dice at the beginning of the game, like 1 for 1k, 2 for 2k, 3 for 3k. just a bit more dice to play with. I like Paragon war suits so yes, Vahl and Melta Paragon Warsuits to just delete things. And maybe some sacrescants with a imagifyer for a back point holder as maybe just a distraction. I will probably lose.
The detachment rule is basically replacing the army rule. The codex already added a bunch of extra things you can spend miracle dice on, and with the number you generate now being around 3 per round. With rounds where you take a heavy beating be capped at 2 extra instead of 1 for each lost unit. Even with the old numbers this would be hard to make work, with the new numbers I just don't see it. The detachment rule needs to not be based on discarding miracle dice...
A part from wanting us to buy Paragons (duh) do you think GW is testing the mechanic of consuming Miracle Dice (hopefully Miracle Points in the future) to gain bonuses and see if players like it?
@@krankarvolund7771 yep but it was not so spread across the army. I'm seeing this (but probably I'm hallucinating) as the GW testing out if we would prefere to sacrifice a dice to a fixed bonus than to hope for a 6
@DDaffodil That depends on the dice. I keep my 4 5 6, discard the others simple. Well that was pré nerf. The obly time I played post nerf, I had to discard a 4 to buff Vahl XD
2 of my 3 armies whiffed on grotmus T^T. Sisters get nerfed then a detachment that focuses on the nerf, votann get a detachment that ignores their army rule, at least death guard got a decent one but I don’t have enough infantry to try it yet
When I first read the detachment rule, I thought the upgrade was permanent/lasted until the end of battle, not next command phase. I honestly think a change to that might help a bit for the miracle dice drought. Idk tho, I’m not the one who plays the army, my friend does.
I got into sisters of battle as an army because of miracle dice. I love the idea and control it gives me in important roles. I don't mind the changes to BoF, go ahead if it truly was broken. But the absolute gutting of our miracle dice generation has completely killed my interest in playing the game all together. I don't like the penitent units, with the exception of mortifiers... since those are technically still sister under there. So that rules out the penitent host as a detachment. With the new miracle dice changes both the army of faith and this new one are pretty much ruled out as we don't have enough miracle dice to even really used the rule. That leaves the detachment form the index which I don't feel like playing more of since we played all throughout the beginning of the detachment.
Feels like the army took a Biiiiiiit to much of a hit in the miracle dice? I don't think anyone would argue that the SoB didn't have too many before, but they've had their total miracle dice cut like... cut down 60% between once per battleround rather than once per turn and then only once per phase in which a unit died. Either/or might have been enough.
I feel so sorry for the guy who wrote this detachment. Absolutely cut off at the knees by the MD changes. You can't even fuel your detachment rule even if you devoted every single MD you got to it. It's a very thematic detachment, and I approve of the direction - a foot slogging elite infantry detachment, that doesn't spam tanks, and tries to make paragons without vahl viable. But the MD changes cripple it. If sacresants were always righteous, for free, that would make it possibly viable? But sacresant's arent very good. The strats are ok, but not as good as in Army of Faith, which generally does the same things, but generates MD instead of consuming them. The detachment rule is much less good than in Martyr, which is kind of like +1 WS/BS, but across the whole army, for free, as soon as you start taking losses. And gets even better the more losses you take. I love the theme, but this would have been a less good alternative to army of faith before the MD nerf. After the MD nerf it's just really struggling. It's a shame, because I'm totally down for running a slightly worse army of faith that has three units of righteous sacresants as core, because I LOVE the models.
I had similar feelings when I saw the detachment.. meh. If we got something similar to the Grey knight Grotmas detachment with the sacesants, it would be cool. But an Idea you could try is a ministorum priest with either Tritych of Judgement or Eyes of the Oracle with and 10man Arco squad running around causing problems. I think, Eyes of the Oracle, may be better for an assassin squad since the Priest has the Once per battle ability 'Zealot'.
I might just run the detachment with the home brew rules of the three listed units automatically get righteous. Save the MD for acts of faith. Never actually played a game yet but have been collecting sacresants ans warsuits cus they are too damn cool
then it should be the detachment for you! If you haven't played a game yet, Hallowed Martyrs is good practice. Then try running this detachment straight before modifying it
I think it'd be better if the Righteousness lasted for the rest of the game, especially with current miracle dice generation. Even if your entire army was Paragons, Sacresants, and BSSs, I don't think letting the buff last all game makes it op.
Ah it feels like playing sisters in the old days all over again.... Anyways, this detachment is just so head scratching. Like it will have some use case I am sure, but considering so many enhancements/stratagems are just slightly different versions from the detachments that already exist, but more expensive its like why? I was trying to just math it out earlier, but assuming that you lose a unit from turn two onwards, using only the standard means of generating miracle dice, you can make a unit righteous three times in a 5 turn game. That is assuming you arent subbing in dice or discarding them for character abilities. And its frustrating, because I am way more interested in using miracle dice as a resource to have effects or abilities rather than just subbing in a number. Its why I was interested in sisters in the first place back when Witch Hunters dropped back in the day, but its just... not like this GW come on.... v_v (and obligatory still missing my shooty celestians until gw gives them back. Like at least put them in legends or something????)
1:00 okay, so are they (GeeDub) just avoiding the celestians because they “don’t have a bespoke kit for it”? Because that’s stupid. I know and feel it in my bones, if they update grey knights to Primaris scale, you’re gonna have to buy a bespoke character box, and like three other boxes, because they’re the poorest sad bois in the world next to Kroger who is the poorest multibillion dollar company in the world (just ask them for a raise).
Think my 2 big problems with this EXTREMEELY FLUFFY AND CANON TO MY ORDER OF MOSTLY CELESTIANS are: 1) My available pool of 1s-3s has been cut by at least 50% 2) It's a bit too fighty. And a bonus 3) I only have 4 Mace Sacresants and 9 Halberds, and Spears of the Faithful STILL don't get a keyword.
Just me being negative here. With how they have been treating the sisters im suprised they didn't get the gsc detachment. Just replace gsc with sisters and the nids with grey knights.
I play pretty casually would have been pretty happy with this detachment before the MD change or let me tag 1-3 units as righteous every round for free it is a pretty meh ability in the first place,for the cost of a MD it should be a bit more impressive Otherwise its exactly the flavor i wanted
worst part about this video... You reminded me of all the extra "discard a MD to gain this effect". GW really came out and was "you can have an army rule, a detachments rule, or a datasheet rule. Only one of them."
I’m rather bummed that literally my first ever army is Sisters of Battle and they are getting nerfed to oblivion for honestly no reason? I’m at a loss for what the best detachment would be for us overall and units now
Man this sucks! I finally decided to join the hobby buying a bunch of SoB minis thinking how cool they were and how fun they seemed to play and then I see this video… feels bad man. Hopefully by the time I’m done assembling and painting my army the rules will change for the better
I can say a lot of thing about why this detachment is garbage. But the main is that I am a strong believer that if only a couple units from your list get a buss and all other get nothing it's a bad detachment. HM, AoF an BoF all give buff to ALL units in the army. So what is this bs with "up to 3" and you need to buy these buffs for MD? Why can't ALL army have +1" move and +1 leadership and on top of that IF you spend a MD on bss\ paragon\ sacresants they are blessed (with no cap of 3 units, it's cringe)? Like it's not even strong by any means. Look at worldeaters - they can buy a bunch of buffs to whole army every battle round and nobody complains. Ehhh, at this point I already gave up. Looks like 10th is simply not our edition.
I think the detachment is too niche, taking up miracle dice in an already miracle dice hungry army that has been nerfed in the amount of dice it can generate.
Only picked up sisters towards the end of 9th so I'm pretty new to the army. However, I've already learned that playing sisters means a life of disappointing GW releases 😅
I fear this is just GW trying out how a Sisters army would do with Miracle buffs, instead of miracle dice, just like you predicted. I would really not like this.
I think this detachment is better than looks on first glance. The tools here are good and plays to a different style. The old sisters of killing everything are a thing of the past, this is more about objective play and playing a trading game I reckon.
Yeah, no. This is a trash detachment. Requiring spending Miracle Dice just to make *every rule in the detachment* not suck is batshit design. Even if Miracle Dice generation hadn't been nerfed into the ground, this would be bad rules design. And they made a total nonbo by making Paragons one of the units since they won't be valid targets for any relics.
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To the shelf my sisters! There is an important objective to control there for next 3 month! Move in! Go go go...
Yea . . . I just pulled them off the shelf too
This! I was telling my friends about how you have to pick army rule or detachment rule and they just weren't getting it. I personally think you hit the nail on the head across the board. It was honestly really gratifying to hear my own opinions validated on every single point. Means my understanding of sisters has grown.
Making those units always righteous, making it so the first few strats could actually be used/considered for non righteous units. The comparisons to army of faith or hallowed martyrs were pretty rough. The consolidate and fall back/shoot/charge very good. It being really hard to justify taking Celestians over Battle Sisters or Repentia.
Great vid, concise, amusing, informative.
Celestians should have gotten Righteous all the time automatically. That would have made the detachment more thematic and would fix the Miracle Dice drought.
This is actually a fantastic and simple adjustment.
If celestians were always righteous, I would never play a different detachment.
This detachment would have been great if that were the case.
Instead, we got a detachment that only ever affects at most a third of our army with terrible enhancements and unplayable strategems.
@@dudemcfurgusson7179 yeah, it would have great but hardly broken considering the cost of Celestians plus them only having pistols and melee weapons for their offensive output.
@@chibizion they don't have to be busted, they're my favorite unit.
@dudemcfurgusson7179 I really dig them too. Probably the unit that feels the most "paladin" to boot
glad someone elses spotted the OS typo. QA at its best
I'm gonna make my own detachment. With black jack, and retributors.
a vehicle detachment would be nice. They definitely have enough.
Ooh epic! So, for Grotmas I got:
- A terrible Aeldari Detachment that is a downgrade in pretty much every way from the index detachment, even in the very narrow niche it aims for.
- An interesting, but nigh impossible to play around Drukhari detachment, which requires me to run models of a different faction I only have a handful of currently.
- A Sisters detachment that would have been great before they gutted the MD generation, and made absolutely no effort to rework after said MD change.
Coal... I got coal...
I’m in the same boat, sisters obviously, votann’s detachment ignores their army rule for like the first 2 or 3 turns, death guard looks good but they’re my newest army and I just don’t have the infantry models to play it effectively
I got a guard detachment that buffs two units I don't play.
A sisters detachment that is perhaps even more hungry in miracle dive than the one I stopped playing because I lack MD.
And a tyranide detachment that allow me to buff my six warriors.....
Grotmas is not the same for everyone XD
I got a guard detachment that buffs two units I don't play.
A sisters detachment that is perhaps even more hungry in miracle dive than the one I stopped playing because I lack MD.
And a tyranide detachment that allow me to buff my six warriors.....
Grotmas is not the same for everyone XD
Still over here waiting for World Eaters, and that’s my only army other than Sisters.
Waiting the whole month for this…
Let's be fair, this detachment would only have been okay-at-best before they gutted miracle dice. :P
I’m so glad you came
To your senses
This feels like what was supposed to the be the solution for what to do with poorly rolled M dice
Yeah, more uses for low dice, especially if you don’t have a dialogus, would be great!
…. If e we had more dice
But we already have things to do with those, between Palatines, Hospitallers, Vahl
There already are ways to spend low dice. What this is is a detachment that demands 1 die minimum to get the rule after a rule update that halved the number of dice you get.
Between Vahl, Hospitallers, Palatine, and the righteous rage enhancement, I literally already didn't have enough MD, even before the changes knocked out 60-70% of them.
Ok, lets do a little bit of a rant...
Please keep in mind, I'm a Sisters player and I'm a little bit pissed at this point...
And please keep also in mind before any of you comments something like "You can put in a 6 from a miracle dice", you have to have a 6 in your miracle dice pool in the first place, That is not always the chase.
It began with 10th edition, big nerf to melters... Melters being the main way Sisters could deal with Armour. Range reduced by 6 inches, strength reduced, ant at the same time buffed every single tank in the game in regards to toughness. With their dedicated anti-tank shooting attack, Sister could damage a Tank only on a wound roll of a 5+. Sisters are (at least as far as I know) the ONLY army that has a max strength on shooting of a 10 (and that only on the Exorcist, and the Castigator). The Retributor squad, the dedicated anti-tank unit has melters with a strength of 9, and can wound a Rhino only on a 5+. The only way to somehow reliable kill a tank is Paragon Wetsuits with Maces.
Have you ever wondered why you never see a Battlereport "Sisters vs Knights" ??? Nobody wants so see an army who cannot take anti tank against a pure Tankforce.
Then came the Bringers of Flame...
we got +1 Str within 12 inches... Melters with Str 10... it began to make sense to shoot at a Rhino... NICE...
Then came the (im)balance Dataslate... 6 Inches... I ask myself: why didnt the make melters into pistols with the special rule "you can only fire melters in engagement range"???
Oh and did I mention... they reduced the range for the +1 from 12 to 6 inches only for the Sisters... Salamanders still get the full 12 inches... I'm not exactly sure, but I believe, it has something to do with the fact have a counterpart to the Retributors... the Devastator Squad, where you get double the wounds, higher toughness, better weapons, and a better unit rule for 5 points less... and btw. you get also a better leadership... The Sisters of Battle, the army who has a martyr themed detachment, the army who wants to die in battle has the same leadership as a Imperial Guardsmen...
Half of the Space Marine Legions fell to chaos... including their Primarchs... How many Traitor Sororitas Orders are known in the lore??? Who is more easily corrupted??? And who has the better leadership??? That is lorewise on the same level as female Custodes...
I'm just massively pissed atm.. Not because the rules got worse, and Sisters got nerfed, but because i feel I'm not treated equal.
Sorry, but it almost seems like you think GW gives a shit or knows what it is doing.
It started way before that. In 8th, we went from "A flamer might hit every model in a unit. If they want to bunch up so they can all charge into close combat, you'll hit heaps of them with a template" to "1d6 hits, so it's just good for layering hits onto characters" and we went from "a melta can blast a vehicle to pieces in one shot" to "a melta can't one-shot even the weakest tanks".
Don't forget the melta pistols with a range of 6, when you can't deep strike closer to 9 XD
@@MGPW
I'm sorry, i dont know that, i started at the end of 8th Edition. But if they change flamers in general, then its a thing that changes for all armys equaly. If sisters had access to lascannons, or grav-cannons i would not complain. My Problem is, I dont want to win every match while im Drunk and asleep because my army is overpowered, but i want the feeling that i have a chance. And right now, i dont have that feeling...
@@DDaffodil
If they want me to give money, they should give at least a shit :P
costs miracle dice...
sadly it seems we no longer get miracle dice. they pretty much deleted the entire army rule.
I so badly wanted a all footslogging Sister in power armour Detachment, and this is what we got.. *insert we were on the verge of greatness, we were this close meme*.
Negativity aside this detachment can be made decent with some tweaks, remove the MD requirement for righteous, tweak the strats to be at least on par with the Army of Faith without the MD generation and the enhancements and you know give us back our gun Celestians.
Ok these aren't a few tweaks.
This detachment was a blatant insult to us Sororitas Players after they nerfed the army to hell and back.
I now need to make a Sororitas army with surfboards, skateboards, and 90s style clothes and gear so that they can be "Totally, righteous man!"
Gnarly dude.
This definitely feels like it was written before the balance patch.
I'm also surprised that there isn't an enhancement that says "The bearer and their unit is Righteous"!
But you can be the rebellious vampire that insists on staying up during the day to be different!
These new detachments honestly feel more like its for crusade than pure matchplay.
I don’t see a huge problem with that. It’s fun to have fluff detachments that are just for fun.
@cpt.s.seiden oh I totally agree, personally I think this detachment will work for those that actually build fluffy thematic lists and not meta #1
you summed up my issues with this detachment perfectly. All in all, I don't mind the detachment as a whole, but I don't like 'paying to have a detachment rule'. I very much dislike that.
Yeah, detachment rules should all at least one passive rule for all the game.
Like here, it could have been "All your army has +1 to hit against ennemies on an objective. In addition, if you pay a miracle dice, one unit get advance and charge, and get +1 leadership".
What a terrific detachment!! That's automatically dead on Arrival because the balance team and the detatchment team didnt think to communicate at all. It will literally perform at 1/3rd the intent it was designed for. I'd say going back to BoF but thnking I need to just..go back to any other army lol
Ok seriously whats with gw's sisters hate recently? i mean they aren't even subtle about it.
Its even more apparent when you consider Gene Stealer Cult is at 61% win rate, and they got buffs and a pretty decent detachment. Yet Sororitas were dead nuts 50% and got hit harder than Eldar when that had a 78% win rate. Crazy
I thought about it and came to the conclusion that it isn't hate, but pure laziness.
They hate dice substitution, but they couldn't be bothered to scratch Miracle Dice and put different rule they'd be ok with in their stead. Nope, just destroy it and do not bother about any replacement.
Similarly, this detachment was clearly written before last nerfs, but GW could't be bothered to coordinate group for nerfs and group for new detachments. Or alternately they knew that last nerfs would make this detachment unplayable before it even got published and just thought "Fuck it! We do not care about them anyway."
Giving us back Celestians with guns would've been a decent "sorry for gutting your army rule" gift. This detachment would've been perfect for them. Sacresants rushing in to take objectives and hold lines. Paragon warsuits as the backbone of the army to deal with troublesome enemy units. Celestians with guns to provide support where needed. I hadn't thought about possibly making the three units righteous by default. With how few MD we get, it would be much more realistic. Here's to hoping the next update gives us anything to latch onto because I have this weird feeling that the MD changes will never be reverted.
Honestly all i really want is for Paragons themselves to be cheaper and to maybe have a generic leader for them... They do not feel like they should cost more than a castigator.
Paragons are just too fragile for their points. That’s always been their issue.
"...TO MY SENSES!" xDDD
A hospitalier with celestians is -1 wound always, 3+ 4++ 5+++ with resurrecting D3+1 models in your command phase. Now at OC 2. They're good.
not always. Anything with precision attacks with delete the hospitaller with ease. Everyone has access to it in combat with a character, so chances are, if they charge you (attack first), you wont benefit from that 5FNP at all in combat. Any sniper unit (most are 60 points) will do so from safety.
@@guillercuasticoYou would get 5+++ for that activation even if they precision the character. So that would reduce some damage, but 200 points is a lot if you don't get to maximize the FNP value and also get some damage in
@@danielhughes3758it’s stupidly easy to snipe out a hospitaler. Even if you don’t sacresants just aren’t tough. -1 to wound means they are still wounding you on 3’s. You just always end up with too many saves and even with a 4++ it’s only ten wounds or 15 with a hospitaler to kill the sacresants. That’s really not that hard. And with a hospitaler their hit back is quite weak.
@bensemusx I'm not saying they're super durable. I was just pointing out that they do get the 5+++ for one activation at least even if the opponent attacks with precision since you said you wouldn't get the 5+++ at all. Even so, I agree they seem a bit lackluster
@@guillercuastico If they precision shots, just hide your hospi behind a wall. Can't precision what they can't see.
"Tell me your rules writers have never even talked to each other without making it obvious", the detachment. Even if they unscrew miracle dice next update, I really don't see this getting much play unless you have Morvenn Vahl because it feels like most of the strategems are mostly "another detachment does this better".
Maybe if you could choose to not gain miracle dice for a battleround in order to make the entire army Righteous (or at Suits, Sacrosancts, and Battle Sisters) for said battleround as a sort of Sisters version of a Waaagh! it would work better. I don't know.
This makes me happier that my group elected to ignore the miracle dice generation nerfs for the sake of our Battle Sisters player.
I so badly wanted a elite infantry detachment like a less flying version of AoF and I so desperately want to run the celestial secs, thematically I was the type of person this detachment should have been for but this would have been insulting before the MD nerf. Off to the shelf sisters, I will miss you.
Wow, if the battle sisters, sacresants, and warsuits all got to be righteous permanently for free, this detachment might have actually been good.
Been using Sacresants a lot in Hallowed Martyr since the last BoF nerf. They're honestly just... alright. I never once charged something and thought "they'll win". They're an adequate Palatine delivery system. Wish they had a 2+ save or a hefty point drop.
Vahl and the palatine already get buffs from “junk” miracles. All they had to do to control miracle dice generation was put restrictions on values of dice generated in certain ways. Like maybe your once per turn dice would be face value but you’re unit-death dice would be capped at 4 or something.
That way you’re not overpowered by as often plugging 6’s into melta damage or AP-3 save rolls, but you still have uses for the dice, and there are also plenty of times when a 3 or 4 is all you need to plug into an important roll.
There were ways to nerf miracle dice that aren’t completely removing a portion of the dice.
That’s a terrible idea.
1) The need for miracle dice makes half the strats weak or worthless and the detachment rule itself is nearly non-existent.
a) Any strat that confers a bonus to a Righteous unit has a minimum cost of 1 die in addition to the CP.
b) Eyes of the Oracle Enhancement refunds 1CP if you kill a unit, not a Miracle Die.
c) There is no way to gain additional dice. You just have to wait for sisters to die if you want more or spam the field with simulacra. This is an overall problem with the army and will make it less elite than before, but you still have to pay the BoF tax for the time being despite the nerf.
2) Many rules reference Celestian Sacresants but are in fact better on Paragon Warsuits.
a) Fall Back and shoot/charge is far more powerful on Warsuits because their guns are far better.
b) Extra str on halberds brings them to str6 which is good and AP 3 is also good, but that AP is far more valuable on Warsuits as they have damage 2 and Vahl refunds a die. Celestians are being led by a Palatine anyway who deals mortals at the cost of 1 die which is superior to the detachment buff for the same cost especially since the Mark of Devotion enhancement gives her another attack.
3) Detachment rule is bad part two.
a) +1" move is kind of useless considering how mechanized the army already is plus the Triumph existing.
b) Improve leadership by 1. LMAO. The only use for this is Junith to give you 1CP on a 5+ leadership test which costs you a die you are in short supply of.
c) +1 to hit is the detachment rule of Hallowed Martyrs if you have lost a single wound. With this you can get that +1 at the cost of a die. Terrible.
d) Sacresants have +1OC while battleshocked. LMAO. You aren't point holding with these girls.
I think my adjustment to this would be maybe either 2 units per dice or maybe they give you a set amount of dice at the beginning, otherwise you are using all units for making miracle dices and simulacrums. Not impossible to build around but eh, I'll probably run it on a 1k list as less units to think about making righteous but 2k might be more linear.
I also think maybe just give Sister an amount of dice at the beginning of the game, like 1 for 1k, 2 for 2k, 3 for 3k. just a bit more dice to play with.
I like Paragon war suits so yes, Vahl and Melta Paragon Warsuits to just delete things. And maybe some sacrescants with a imagifyer for a back point holder as maybe just a distraction. I will probably lose.
The detachment rule is basically replacing the army rule. The codex already added a bunch of extra things you can spend miracle dice on, and with the number you generate now being around 3 per round. With rounds where you take a heavy beating be capped at 2 extra instead of 1 for each lost unit. Even with the old numbers this would be hard to make work, with the new numbers I just don't see it. The detachment rule needs to not be based on discarding miracle dice...
A part from wanting us to buy Paragons (duh) do you think GW is testing the mechanic of consuming Miracle Dice (hopefully Miracle Points in the future) to gain bonuses and see if players like it?
We've already had it, Vahl works like that, the Hospitalier and Palatine too.
We've already had it, Vahl works like that, the Hospitalier and Palatine too.
We've already had it, Vahl works like that, the Hospitalier and Palatine too.
@@krankarvolund7771 yep but it was not so spread across the army. I'm seeing this (but probably I'm hallucinating) as the GW testing out if we would prefere to sacrifice a dice to a fixed bonus than to hope for a 6
@DDaffodil That depends on the dice. I keep my 4 5 6, discard the others simple.
Well that was pré nerf. The obly time I played post nerf, I had to discard a 4 to buff Vahl XD
Im missing 4 months ago, before our sisters darkest nerfs. O' what have we all lost, for such sour balances.
2 of my 3 armies whiffed on grotmus T^T. Sisters get nerfed then a detachment that focuses on the nerf, votann get a detachment that ignores their army rule, at least death guard got a decent one but I don’t have enough infantry to try it yet
Amry of faith i think is still better because it the only.thing that can give us mricqle dice
"sanctified mullet"! I thought most Sisters wore a 'blesséd bob'
Oh look, grotmas and balance patch writers moving totally in different directions 😅
When I first read the detachment rule, I thought the upgrade was permanent/lasted until the end of battle, not next command phase. I honestly think a change to that might help a bit for the miracle dice drought. Idk tho, I’m not the one who plays the army, my friend does.
I got into sisters of battle as an army because of miracle dice. I love the idea and control it gives me in important roles. I don't mind the changes to BoF, go ahead if it truly was broken. But the absolute gutting of our miracle dice generation has completely killed my interest in playing the game all together. I don't like the penitent units, with the exception of mortifiers... since those are technically still sister under there. So that rules out the penitent host as a detachment. With the new miracle dice changes both the army of faith and this new one are pretty much ruled out as we don't have enough miracle dice to even really used the rule. That leaves the detachment form the index which I don't feel like playing more of since we played all throughout the beginning of the detachment.
Feels like the army took a Biiiiiiit to much of a hit in the miracle dice? I don't think anyone would argue that the SoB didn't have too many before, but they've had their total miracle dice cut like... cut down 60% between once per battleround rather than once per turn and then only once per phase in which a unit died. Either/or might have been enough.
I feel so sorry for the guy who wrote this detachment. Absolutely cut off at the knees by the MD changes. You can't even fuel your detachment rule even if you devoted every single MD you got to it.
It's a very thematic detachment, and I approve of the direction - a foot slogging elite infantry detachment, that doesn't spam tanks, and tries to make paragons without vahl viable.
But the MD changes cripple it. If sacresants were always righteous, for free, that would make it possibly viable? But sacresant's arent very good.
The strats are ok, but not as good as in Army of Faith, which generally does the same things, but generates MD instead of consuming them. The detachment rule is much less good than in Martyr, which is kind of like +1 WS/BS, but across the whole army, for free, as soon as you start taking losses. And gets even better the more losses you take.
I love the theme, but this would have been a less good alternative to army of faith before the MD nerf. After the MD nerf it's just really struggling.
It's a shame, because I'm totally down for running a slightly worse army of faith that has three units of righteous sacresants as core, because I LOVE the models.
I had similar feelings when I saw the detachment.. meh. If we got something similar to the Grey knight Grotmas detachment with the sacesants, it would be cool. But an Idea you could try is a ministorum priest with either Tritych of Judgement or Eyes of the Oracle with and 10man Arco squad running around causing problems. I think, Eyes of the Oracle, may be better for an assassin squad since the Priest has the Once per battle ability 'Zealot'.
Aestred and Agathae might be a good option for this detachment as well, since it seems to be miracle dice heavy.
Releasing a detachment geared towards consuming miracle dice after the miracle dice nice almost feels antagonistic from GW 😂
I might just run the detachment with the home brew rules of the three listed units automatically get righteous. Save the MD for acts of faith. Never actually played a game yet but have been collecting sacresants ans warsuits cus they are too damn cool
then it should be the detachment for you!
If you haven't played a game yet, Hallowed Martyrs is good practice. Then try running this detachment straight before modifying it
I think it'd be better if the Righteousness lasted for the rest of the game, especially with current miracle dice generation. Even if your entire army was Paragons, Sacresants, and BSSs, I don't think letting the buff last all game makes it op.
I like that idea
Ah it feels like playing sisters in the old days all over again....
Anyways, this detachment is just so head scratching. Like it will have some use case I am sure, but considering so many enhancements/stratagems are just slightly different versions from the detachments that already exist, but more expensive its like why? I was trying to just math it out earlier, but assuming that you lose a unit from turn two onwards, using only the standard means of generating miracle dice, you can make a unit righteous three times in a 5 turn game. That is assuming you arent subbing in dice or discarding them for character abilities.
And its frustrating, because I am way more interested in using miracle dice as a resource to have effects or abilities rather than just subbing in a number. Its why I was interested in sisters in the first place back when Witch Hunters dropped back in the day, but its just... not like this GW come on.... v_v (and obligatory still missing my shooty celestians until gw gives them back. Like at least put them in legends or something????)
1:00 okay, so are they (GeeDub) just avoiding the celestians because they “don’t have a bespoke kit for it”? Because that’s stupid. I know and feel it in my bones, if they update grey knights to Primaris scale, you’re gonna have to buy a bespoke character box, and like three other boxes, because they’re the poorest sad bois in the world next to Kroger who is the poorest multibillion dollar company in the world (just ask them for a raise).
Guess it's time to buy some used meta chasing models on the cheap.
Think my 2 big problems with this EXTREMEELY FLUFFY AND CANON TO MY ORDER OF MOSTLY CELESTIANS are:
1) My available pool of 1s-3s has been cut by at least 50%
2) It's a bit too fighty.
And a bonus 3) I only have 4 Mace Sacresants and 9 Halberds, and Spears of the Faithful STILL don't get a keyword.
Just me being negative here. With how they have been treating the sisters im suprised they didn't get the gsc detachment. Just replace gsc with sisters and the nids with grey knights.
I play pretty casually would have been pretty happy with this detachment before the MD change
or let me tag 1-3 units as righteous every round for free
it is a pretty meh ability in the first place,for the cost of a MD it should be a bit more impressive
Otherwise its exactly the flavor i wanted
worst part about this video... You reminded me of all the extra "discard a MD to gain this effect". GW really came out and was "you can have an army rule, a detachments rule, or a datasheet rule. Only one of them."
I’m rather bummed that literally my first ever army is Sisters of Battle and they are getting nerfed to oblivion for honestly no reason?
I’m at a loss for what the best detachment would be for us overall and units now
Anyone interested in buying a slightly used 2000pt sister army?
I mean, sort of, but only because I want to expand my collection.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Dude you waited 'till now, might as well embrace suffering and sacrifice as a way of life
Man this sucks! I finally decided to join the hobby buying a bunch of SoB minis thinking how cool they were and how fun they seemed to play and then I see this video… feels bad man. Hopefully by the time I’m done assembling and painting my army the rules will change for the better
I can say a lot of thing about why this detachment is garbage. But the main is that I am a strong believer that if only a couple units from your list get a buss and all other get nothing it's a bad detachment. HM, AoF an BoF all give buff to ALL units in the army. So what is this bs with "up to 3" and you need to buy these buffs for MD? Why can't ALL army have +1" move and +1 leadership and on top of that IF you spend a MD on bss\ paragon\ sacresants they are blessed (with no cap of 3 units, it's cringe)? Like it's not even strong by any means. Look at worldeaters - they can buy a bunch of buffs to whole army every battle round and nobody complains.
Ehhh, at this point I already gave up. Looks like 10th is simply not our edition.
Is this Adept Roll thing a paid sponsor?
yes
I think the detachment is too niche, taking up miracle dice in an already miracle dice hungry army that has been nerfed in the amount of dice it can generate.
Only picked up sisters towards the end of 9th so I'm pretty new to the army. However, I've already learned that playing sisters means a life of disappointing GW releases 😅
we will bounce between slightly above average and weak
I fear this is just GW trying out how a Sisters army would do with Miracle buffs, instead of miracle dice, just like you predicted. I would really not like this.
I think this detachment is better than looks on first glance. The tools here are good and plays to a different style. The old sisters of killing everything are a thing of the past, this is more about objective play and playing a trading game I reckon.
Sister have always been a trading army. This detachment is a worse AoF.
Yeah, no. This is a trash detachment. Requiring spending Miracle Dice just to make *every rule in the detachment* not suck is batshit design. Even if Miracle Dice generation hadn't been nerfed into the ground, this would be bad rules design. And they made a total nonbo by making Paragons one of the units since they won't be valid targets for any relics.
No
No
No
Yes
I swear they are on meth at GW
It's not good, but Penatent Host is worse is hardly a ringing endorsement.
0:20 Change your timezone then