I’m in agreement, they were too passive with the ISDs and should have pressed the attack. Maybe keep a few TIE squadrons back to cover the ISDs, but this was a winnable battle for the Empire here
Given how much damage the ISD Devastator caused when it arrived, the two ISDs on guard over Scarif should have wiped out the rebels long before Tarkin or Vader arrived. Long live the Empire
I believe by the time Vader and Tarkin arrived that the main rebel ships' shield defense was very low. That impacted how much easier for Vader to bombard the ship imo.
@@Anders_Lund Hatten aber Überraschungsmoment und haben sofort aus recht kurzer Distanz auf beschädigte Schiffe geschossen. Sicher geht es unrealistisch schnell aber muss für den Filmfluss
@@anthonyallen2244 That doesn't play out mathematically though. The Profundity mounts so few weapons that even with the supposed 3 times the number of shield generators, the ISDs many dozens to 1 advantage in firepower means that those shields would have died long before it could ever hope to threaten an ISD. One major thing that most people forget is that the ISD 1 has 2 twin main battery ion cannons, and 60 heavy ion cannons. Just 1/2 of an ISD has 3 times the ion cannons than the Profundity had on its entire hull. The ion cannons that disrupt shields and mess with power systems on a ship. And the shields aren't equal to an ISD, the specific quote is that the MC cruisers mounted 3 times the shield generators of a similar sized ship. Which means for the Profundity, each star destroyer being 1/4 longer is actually facing 4 ships of its own tonnage in the battle. Tonnage, mass, being put into more powerful reactors, weapons, capacitor banks etc etc. So suddenly 3 shields worth of power looks a lot less compared to 4. 12 turbolasers and 4 ion cannons is just woefully inadequate to fend off even a 450m strike cruiser in terms of who's shields will fall first, let alone the combined 120 heavy ion cannons, 240 heavy turbolaser barrels, 24 heavy main battery turbolaser barrels, and 8 heavy main battery ion cannons of the 2 ISDs, not even touching tertiary or smaller weapons on them. You aren't the only one to draw that conclusion though.
To me the two ISDs were caught by surprise and were not at Combat Stations. Contrast that with the Rebel fleet being at Combat stations and expecting to fight as soon as they arrived. So the ISDs might not have been able to press the attack as the ships were simply not ready. Even so, the Mon Cal ship had its shields knocked down to 50% before the Y-Wing bombers fired Ion torpedoes and disabled one of the ISDs. That disabled ISD would then block the firepower of the other ISD, giving the Rebels a small angle they could use to get close without being shot at. At the end of the battle, the Rebel ships were damaged and with low shields, while Vader's ISD is at Combat stations and ready for a fight.
There should had been a squadron of 6 Victory-class Star Destroyers and support ships. And having a more able fleet commander in charge of the space battle, things might have ended differently. It would have enable the unsaid commander to summon reinforcements from any nearby systems while holding off the Rebels long enough until those reinforcements would arrive.
the two star destroyers should have split and target the rebel capital ship from two side in a pincers attack, the side facing the rebel capital should have focused solely on taking it out while the other side attacked the smaller ships destroying them in rapid succession, also have the tie fighters split between defense and taking out rebel fighters, meanwhile the bombers joined the attack on rebel capital ship,
Being a stormtrooper stationed on Scarif before the rebels attacked was like being in the 25th ID at Schofield Barracks Hawaii. Anyway, great video my friend, and if you ever need any video suggestions on Imperials, I always got plenty for you 👍
Plot armor. I broke down the tech and decisions all round on another video to someone who was claiming the MC75 was superior. It was sad. Even assuming that every revel ship had a maxed out fighter compliment the the Empire had a 2:1 advantage. For range, the ISDs had all of their primary weapons in range and in gun barrels alone, not counting heavy vs medium and light, the Empire enjoyed a greater than 12:1 numerical advantage. Raddus was a fool. Openning he went into battle not knowing what he was up against and in terms of capital ships, just 1 ISD I had the whole Rebel fleet outgunned. 2. He desperately needed the shield gate intact to either reinforce or extract the ground forces. He chose to not board the station, sending 1 of his squadrons on an additional suicide run. 3. He didnt immediately send his bombers that were already deployed at the ISDs when they were still coming to battlestations and at their most vulnerable. 4. Raddus chose to keep distance from the ISDs instead of being able to put the bulk of 1 in between his fleet and the other, and potentially the station. 5. Every starfighter he sent against the shield gate left other starfighters to get swarmed by Imperial fighters. These are just the openning screw ups of Raddus. The plot armor. The imperials should have taken out the smaller fighter defense frigates and gunships first, and with as much damage as you see the TIEs deliver to the Profundity and all of its extra shields, the main battery turbolasers putting out about 6 rounds per minute should have shredded the escorts right quick and in a hurry, which would have decreased the amount of defensive fire against the TIEs. But again its the plot armor. The starfighters from either side are always written and portrayed as a massive threat to capital ships...and capital ships NEVER fire on incoming starfighters that seem to get away with flying straight and level at them. Honestly the starfighter vs Star Destroyer has become the Stormtrooper effect. In all of the movies, 1-9, i can only think of 2 fighters being downed by capital ships. 1 was an N-1 at Naboo, and the other was the X-wing flying behind Green 1, and i say only 2 becuase we dont see on screen why Green 1 was spinning, he could have clipped some equipment which caused the spin, or taken fire. The number of Capital ships taken out by starfighters is just silly. The Lucrehulk in Episode 1, Death Star I in Episode 4, Death Star 2 and Executor in Episode 6 (and maybe another ISD which isnt clear who caused the damage), Episode 7...the fricking planet...Episode 8 we have the Mandator 4, and then we have the hundreds of Xyston in Episode 9. My opinion is that Episodes 7-9 arent real and should just all be burned. There is my extremely brief synopsis on the Scarrif space battle. Raddus was an idiot and deserved to die before he got more people killed, and the power of the Plot Armor cant be beat as another person pointed out.
I figure it is the ISDs were not at Combat stations when the Rebels arrived, vs the Rebels ready to fight as soon as they arrived. So the ISDs were getting shot at while unshielded, causing critical items to get damaged early. Even so, the Rebel Capital ship was still reduced to 50% shields before the Y-Wing bombers used Ion torpedoes to disable one ISD.
@toddkes5890 I made the same assumption, but the ships never showed any damage before the starfighter runs. I also went back and watched the whole sequence several times, and could see no outgoing fire from the Rebel fleet towards the ISDs. Only green fire going from the ISDs towards the Rebels. The ISDs not being at combat stations at the outset would be the best time for the starfighter attack, but regardless the shield station would have been attended on the bridge. So shields would have been one of the first, if not the first of the systems to come online and run to full power. And as the ISDs came to full combat readiness, despite there being at least some crews "on duty" the ever escalating amount of fire would see Rebel ships starting to die at a faster rate as a result. Even at even say 30% shields, being generous, when Profundity goes to exit, Avenger still shredded it in mere seconds, along with everything else.
The Space and Ground Battle of Scarif is my favorite Battle shown in a movie (through i admit, there are not even that many) but its always sad, how those Star Destroyers were totally wasted. We do not even see them fire that much. They should have destroyed at least some ships.
I dont care if the battle tactics of the empire were flawed. The battle of scariff is my favorite battle on star wars for combining ground, sky and space with the shield and the way they destroyed it being brilliant choices imo. And while watching, the average fan wont be bothered by this minor flaw since they keep showing us that the rebels are struggling. We see x wings getting shot down quickly, their initial plan not working at all and hordes of Ties shooting down the shields of the command ship to a dangerous degree. They got me hooked to the screen for like 40 minutes on Scariff
Considering that the Death Star plans were literally on Scariff, why did The Galactic Empire never considered to give Krennic more ISDs and and a few frigates? No wonder why getting Project Stardust felt a bit easy. The only best thing that Krennic did was at least having great soldiers on ground, like Death Troopers. Still, no wonder why getting Project Stardust was easier than expected 💀
Ah yes, the ever present theme in Star Wars media. "The authors want the Rebels to win." Or is it, "The Empire, despite its overwhelming military might and firepower, was soundly defeated."? Either way, same result.
I somewhat disagree. While for better storytelling overall the Empire (and the CIS) should definitely be shown winning more major battles. But this battle had to go to the rebels for everything to fall into place. What is questionable tho is this battle was the full rebel doctrine on display. Throughout the entire civil war, the empire mostly never adapts and loses Endor in a very similar fashion. I would like the see the “bad guys” not always taking Ls
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Director Krennic got shot in the face by the Death Star.
IN THE FACE!
I’m in agreement, they were too passive with the ISDs and should have pressed the attack. Maybe keep a few TIE squadrons back to cover the ISDs, but this was a winnable battle for the Empire here
Given how much damage the ISD Devastator caused when it arrived, the two ISDs on guard over Scarif should have wiped out the rebels long before Tarkin or Vader arrived. Long live the Empire
@@Anders_Lund Agreed 👍
I believe by the time Vader and Tarkin arrived that the main rebel ships' shield defense was very low. That impacted how much easier for Vader to bombard the ship imo.
@@Anders_Lund Hatten aber Überraschungsmoment und haben sofort aus recht kurzer Distanz auf beschädigte Schiffe geschossen. Sicher geht es unrealistisch schnell aber muss für den Filmfluss
@@anthonyallen2244 That doesn't play out mathematically though. The Profundity mounts so few weapons that even with the supposed 3 times the number of shield generators, the ISDs many dozens to 1 advantage in firepower means that those shields would have died long before it could ever hope to threaten an ISD.
One major thing that most people forget is that the ISD 1 has 2 twin main battery ion cannons, and 60 heavy ion cannons. Just 1/2 of an ISD has 3 times the ion cannons than the Profundity had on its entire hull.
The ion cannons that disrupt shields and mess with power systems on a ship.
And the shields aren't equal to an ISD, the specific quote is that the MC cruisers mounted 3 times the shield generators of a similar sized ship. Which means for the Profundity, each star destroyer being 1/4 longer is actually facing 4 ships of its own tonnage in the battle. Tonnage, mass, being put into more powerful reactors, weapons, capacitor banks etc etc.
So suddenly 3 shields worth of power looks a lot less compared to 4.
12 turbolasers and 4 ion cannons is just woefully inadequate to fend off even a 450m strike cruiser in terms of who's shields will fall first, let alone the combined 120 heavy ion cannons, 240 heavy turbolaser barrels, 24 heavy main battery turbolaser barrels, and 8 heavy main battery ion cannons of the 2 ISDs, not even touching tertiary or smaller weapons on them.
You aren't the only one to draw that conclusion though.
To me the two ISDs were caught by surprise and were not at Combat Stations. Contrast that with the Rebel fleet being at Combat stations and expecting to fight as soon as they arrived. So the ISDs might not have been able to press the attack as the ships were simply not ready.
Even so, the Mon Cal ship had its shields knocked down to 50% before the Y-Wing bombers fired Ion torpedoes and disabled one of the ISDs. That disabled ISD would then block the firepower of the other ISD, giving the Rebels a small angle they could use to get close without being shot at.
At the end of the battle, the Rebel ships were damaged and with low shields, while Vader's ISD is at Combat stations and ready for a fight.
There should had been a squadron of 6 Victory-class Star Destroyers and support ships. And having a more able fleet commander in charge of the space battle, things might have ended differently. It would have enable the unsaid commander to summon reinforcements from any nearby systems while holding off the Rebels long enough until those reinforcements would arrive.
The Imperials were caught off guard, hence their defeat.
Here's to hoping Andor S2 shows some brutal Imperial victories to further escalate tensions between both factions
the two star destroyers should have split and target the rebel capital ship from two side in a pincers attack, the side facing the rebel capital should have focused solely on taking it out while the other side attacked the smaller ships destroying them in rapid succession, also have the tie fighters split between defense and taking out rebel fighters, meanwhile the bombers joined the attack on rebel capital ship,
Being a stormtrooper stationed on Scarif before the rebels attacked was like being in the 25th ID at Schofield Barracks Hawaii. Anyway, great video my friend, and if you ever need any video suggestions on Imperials, I always got plenty for you 👍
@indianajones4321 Thanks, my friend 👍 😊
Plot armor. I broke down the tech and decisions all round on another video to someone who was claiming the MC75 was superior. It was sad.
Even assuming that every revel ship had a maxed out fighter compliment the the Empire had a 2:1 advantage.
For range, the ISDs had all of their primary weapons in range and in gun barrels alone, not counting heavy vs medium and light, the Empire enjoyed a greater than 12:1 numerical advantage.
Raddus was a fool.
Openning he went into battle not knowing what he was up against and in terms of capital ships, just 1 ISD I had the whole Rebel fleet outgunned.
2. He desperately needed the shield gate intact to either reinforce or extract the ground forces. He chose to not board the station, sending 1 of his squadrons on an additional suicide run.
3. He didnt immediately send his bombers that were already deployed at the ISDs when they were still coming to battlestations and at their most vulnerable.
4. Raddus chose to keep distance from the ISDs instead of being able to put the bulk of 1 in between his fleet and the other, and potentially the station.
5. Every starfighter he sent against the shield gate left other starfighters to get swarmed by Imperial fighters.
These are just the openning screw ups of Raddus.
The plot armor.
The imperials should have taken out the smaller fighter defense frigates and gunships first, and with as much damage as you see the TIEs deliver to the Profundity and all of its extra shields, the main battery turbolasers putting out about 6 rounds per minute should have shredded the escorts right quick and in a hurry, which would have decreased the amount of defensive fire against the TIEs.
But again its the plot armor. The starfighters from either side are always written and portrayed as a massive threat to capital ships...and capital ships NEVER fire on incoming starfighters that seem to get away with flying straight and level at them.
Honestly the starfighter vs Star Destroyer has become the Stormtrooper effect.
In all of the movies, 1-9, i can only think of 2 fighters being downed by capital ships. 1 was an N-1 at Naboo, and the other was the X-wing flying behind Green 1, and i say only 2 becuase we dont see on screen why Green 1 was spinning, he could have clipped some equipment which caused the spin, or taken fire.
The number of Capital ships taken out by starfighters is just silly. The Lucrehulk in Episode 1, Death Star I in Episode 4, Death Star 2 and Executor in Episode 6 (and maybe another ISD which isnt clear who caused the damage), Episode 7...the fricking planet...Episode 8 we have the Mandator 4, and then we have the hundreds of Xyston in Episode 9.
My opinion is that Episodes 7-9 arent real and should just all be burned.
There is my extremely brief synopsis on the Scarrif space battle.
Raddus was an idiot and deserved to die before he got more people killed, and the power of the Plot Armor cant be beat as another person pointed out.
I figure it is the ISDs were not at Combat stations when the Rebels arrived, vs the Rebels ready to fight as soon as they arrived. So the ISDs were getting shot at while unshielded, causing critical items to get damaged early. Even so, the Rebel Capital ship was still reduced to 50% shields before the Y-Wing bombers used Ion torpedoes to disable one ISD.
@toddkes5890 I made the same assumption, but the ships never showed any damage before the starfighter runs. I also went back and watched the whole sequence several times, and could see no outgoing fire from the Rebel fleet towards the ISDs. Only green fire going from the ISDs towards the Rebels.
The ISDs not being at combat stations at the outset would be the best time for the starfighter attack, but regardless the shield station would have been attended on the bridge. So shields would have been one of the first, if not the first of the systems to come online and run to full power.
And as the ISDs came to full combat readiness, despite there being at least some crews "on duty" the ever escalating amount of fire would see Rebel ships starting to die at a faster rate as a result.
Even at even say 30% shields, being generous, when Profundity goes to exit, Avenger still shredded it in mere seconds, along with everything else.
The Space and Ground Battle of Scarif is my favorite Battle shown in a movie (through i admit, there are not even that many) but its always sad, how those Star Destroyers were totally wasted. We do not even see them fire that much. They should have destroyed at least some ships.
Sounds like you want something akin to the Torrington battle from Gundam Unicorn. Grunts vs grunts in a surprise ambush.
I dont care if the battle tactics of the empire were flawed. The battle of scariff is my favorite battle on star wars for combining ground, sky and space with the shield and the way they destroyed it being brilliant choices imo. And while watching, the average fan wont be bothered by this minor flaw since they keep showing us that the rebels are struggling. We see x wings getting shot down quickly, their initial plan not working at all and hordes of Ties shooting down the shields of the command ship to a dangerous degree. They got me hooked to the screen for like 40 minutes on Scariff
Considering that the Death Star plans were literally on Scariff, why did The Galactic Empire never considered to give Krennic more ISDs and and a few frigates? No wonder why getting Project Stardust felt a bit easy. The only best thing that Krennic did was at least having great soldiers on ground, like Death Troopers. Still, no wonder why getting Project Stardust was easier than expected 💀
The rebels won not because of Imperial stupidity, but once again because Disney Star Wars treated them as incompetent clowns. 🤨
The Imperials were embarrassingly incompetent in all the movies, even at Hoth.
Ah yes, the ever present theme in Star Wars media. "The authors want the Rebels to win." Or is it, "The Empire, despite its overwhelming military might and firepower, was soundly defeated."? Either way, same result.
Long live the empire
@@philly83 Long live the Empire! 👍
U can’t beat plot armor
That's true lol
A better written story would had made the Empire win.
I somewhat disagree. While for better storytelling overall the Empire (and the CIS) should definitely be shown winning more major battles. But this battle had to go to the rebels for everything to fall into place. What is questionable tho is this battle was the full rebel doctrine on display. Throughout the entire civil war, the empire mostly never adapts and loses Endor in a very similar fashion. I would like the see the “bad guys” not always taking Ls