Man I’ve said this many times but lance could start a RUclips and it’d explode the man is a massive wealth of machine rebuilding knowledge not to mention the vet knowledge and big business. Plus his personality seems easy to take and he would be able to teach in a manner allot of teachers these days just can’t simply because they don’t have the passion for it
This video is very interesting to me because given the timeframe of when I ordered my 6" set and when I received them I'm pretty sure my set is somewhere in that stack of boxes.
Ran one of those ProtoTraks for several years in a tool room for machine maintenance. Simply awesome machines, very capable, easy to program on the fly.
Always nice to see Lance and the work he does in his shop. I've been wanting to get some precision stones from him for a while and I'll probably order some soon. Once you start using stones (precision ground), you'll realize what you've been missing and won't want to continue without them. They're a must have for machinists but not only, they're a great tool even for metal fabricators or also woodworkers and hobbyists. Passing them on the mill table every now and then makes a big difference and even stoning parts off the mill can give you a very nice finish if you don't have a surface grinder and will also improve precision in your parts.
Lance is an exceptionally generous person. In the early days of his creating the precision flat stones, I tried to buy a set, but he sent them to me for free. He didn't know me from Adam (pun intended), but gave them to me anyway. I really cherish the gift.
Always lots of fun to work in / see other folks' shops! Keep showing us that new shop progress! Thanks Adam. Loved those photos in the restaurant! Great family I'm sure.
haven't watched the videos in a while, glad you're doing well Adam. this was fascinating both the machining and the teaching aspect... take it easy everyone, be nice, have fun
Happy to have found you guys , watching for some time now . Another channel to add to the list 26 Acer . I found Rob Rense some yrs. ago , through some electrical test gear he custom made , too late to get in on the 10 he made ;( My experience 1st 9th grade shop class [ do know of any place doing now ;( , then auto repair , next gunsmithing with shooting competition , no longer have space --- so you guys make me miss / but enjoy ;) Thanks
for all those wondering what these are for, they are called precision ground flat stones. they are used to grind flat a surface that had been machined very flat since machining sometimes leaves behind burrs. grinding it with these stones leaves it as close to perfect as you can get
Great video, I appreciate the generous spirit. I did have a few notes that could be constructive though. It only takes a second with a squeege on the chuck, maybe that's why the extra time "sparking" out was needed because the stones would be flexing a bit if sitting on even the smallest piece of grit. I flip them twice because there's likely to be flex on the first side, and on the second flip it's just a fine cut, so both stones can be done at the same height setting and will be virtually matched in thickness too which could come in handy.. Grinding the sides square is nice too. I realize tuning new machines is a process and maybe you're aware of this but that chuck looks like it was ground with the wheel either out of round or out of balance... Rock on!
I understand from the comments, specifically @mazur under @Ian Furlong's comment, that these stones are used to, "flaten the high spots on the tables for a mill or any other flat metal surface." That being said, what is added to the stones' capacity as shown in this video? Why are Norton ~ $25 stones cut in two, machined, and then sold for $230? I am not a machinist, plead ignorance, but am here to listen, watch, and learn.
Robin Renzetti has a good video describing them: ruclips.net/video/DVLXsq7pi9Y/видео.html The short version is that the original stones aren't very flat, and the grit in them will scratch flat surfaces they're used on. After precision grinding they're very flat, and the grit won't scratch another flat surface they're used on. They'll only remove high spots, but because they're so flat when used on another flat surface they won't cut the main surface, and they therefore won't distort the shape. You're paying for time on a surface grinder with a diamond wheel. If you have a surface grinder, it's cheaper to make your own, but *lots* of machinists don't have surface grinders, they're quite expensive. And anyone working to high precision (mostly toolmakers) needs a precision ground flat stone, and usually such people make good money and can afford a good precision-ground stone set. They're also always made in pairs, so that they can be used against one another to even their surfaces out before use, thus cutting the Norton stones in half.
I've been waiting for this video!! It's a nice coincidence seeing as I just ordered a set of these last week or so, can't wait to receive them. Maybe mine were in that pile on the table :) lol. love seeing lances shop, and Adam's videos!
Man I use a 12" level daily for my work. Leveling a TV on a wall with is easy, but these levels that exist for the accuracy you are trying to acheive are just crazy. I wonder how "off" I am with my level. Normally if a tv or a 3gang switch plate look level with the naked eye they are level, but if you put one of these precision levels on them they would be way off in the precision machinist world. thanks
The absolute precision never ceases to amaze me Adam. I do have a few question's though. 1-> "How often do you need to check the 'machines' for proper alignment?". 2-> "Do 'machines' come with a installed bubble level sensor, that can 'activate an alarm of sorts', if it goes out of a certain pre-set range?". The reason I ask, is because, I also have an OCD (LOL) watching the USGS earthquake map. For example if you're away on the Big Haul, and something happens back home, that you were not aware of. I can say for certain now, I'm over the worry of metal chips miss aliening things from watching Kurtis (CEEA)😅. It's really fascinating to watch you guys work. I caught this bug back in the day when NASA was repairing the Hubble Telescope, and the precision that took. Cheers, Blessings! ....ps: One final question, for something completely different that I do, "Do you treat any 'sliding' surfaces with graphite?" Because under a microscope, metal looks like the Rocky Mountains🤔🤫.
NICE, this is much easier, and I am sure more accurate than hand lapping. why only2? I have always used sets of 3 so I can keep them flat between jobs by lapping them.
Now I know why my stones were "delayed". I have a pair on order from Lance and he just shipped them this week. I guess his "guest" delayed his schedule somewhat. Just kidding guys, it's nice to be able to see what's potentially "your stuff" going through the process. Thanks to Lance and Adam. Greetings from Canada's banana belt. 👍🇨🇦🇺🇦🕊️🇺🇲🤞
I see those are Norton stones. I live 16 miles from one of their 'Arkansas Stone' manufactures (and there are others in my area also).....and there are no shortage of small arkansas stones available....if that is what you're looking for.
So, am I the only one that keeps hearing "Can't Grinder"? I know it's Kent but it's funny to hear you guys talking about precision grinding precision stones with the "Can't Grinder"... lol
The grinding hold downs in the thumbnail. One thing we used to do in the shaper was to use sections of power hacksaw blades to hold the stock more securely in the vise. And when grinding bench stones. The surfaces really do not need to be parallel. A grinding vise will do. Or two sided tape. Just put some card stock between the jaws and the work. Used to use computer punch cards or something similiar.
I like Lance's shop update. I've been looking at getting some of those stones for a while. Just placed my order. But you need to put a mic on Lance when you have him in these videos. He's too quiet.
They're not that difficult to learn however once you learn it it's like riding a bike you'll never forget how to run it plus there's a lot of information out there for those prototrak machines
CLEANING PRECISION GROUND STONES: You should buy 2000 ml of stoko kresto hand cleaner. I have used it for over 20 years and it was great to get my hands clean for work. About 3 years ago I made some precision ground stones for myself and free for 4 friends after listening to Robin. (you need to buy a $500 diamond wheel which makes Lances stones a bargain unless you are doing a bunch of them) Robin talked about using an ultrasonic cleaner to clean them which I have done but it is slow and I don’t regularly have solution in the ultrasonic cleaner. One day, I had the idea that this hand cleaner has ground up walnut shells and a soap in it that should not harm the stones so: Put a marble size glob of this hand cleaner on the face of one stone and smear it around to cover it, then rub the two stones together like you usually do and then rinse in warm water. Repeat a second time if needed. You will be absolutely amazed at how clean and degreased they get. Tell your buddies.
Effectively what you are doing is lapping them since that hand cleanser has an abrasive in it anyway. If you add a third stone in the mix and a ton of time you could theoretically not only clean but reflatten your stones at the same time .. or you could make them significantly less precise just as easily. Lance and Adam did another couple videos a while back talking about lapping large surface plates and Tom at oxtools has shown how to do the same thing on his channel on a smaller scale. It would be interesting to see how effective hand cleanser can be as a lapping compound ..
@@andarkelorin8797 if the abrasive in the cleaner was close to the hardness of the stones your analysis would be correct. However, walnut shells are so much softer than the stones they’d only scrub not abrade the stones. If the abrasive was let’s say pumice it would be a problem. Try it you will love it and the hand cleaner is super for your hands also.
@@soldier715 try the stoko kresto to de grease and clean precision ground stones. You will never go back to WD40 for precision ground flat stones. If you have never used precision ground stones you won’t understand why you don’t want any oil on them. All other stones without the ground surface may work well with WD40 but the precision ground stones get really oily-dirty fast as they remove all oil on the surface of the metal and this interferes with there use. Other unground stones don’t have the squeegee effect.
I really like Lance, i think he's a really cool guy. But i'm bummed he got rid of some of his machines. I was really hoping to see that planer he was rebuilding running. Not the Rockford openside but the other one he had.
I am kind of interested in testing my naniwa water stones compared to these stock oil stones for flatness. Then testing for flatness a waterstone that had the traditional japanese way of flattening. Obviously Lance's ground stones are precision grounded to so they far flatter, just wondering how much of a difference in flatness.
Why is it so critical to have these machine so level? I can see that having the ways parallel to the spindle and tailstock, (lathe) or the blade perpendicular to the table (table saw) or the bed in line with the head. (Mill.) If all the parts of the machine are aligned to each other, you should be able to jack up one side, a few inches, and it would STILL be "dead nuts on." Take a surface plate. If one of the 3 feet was 3 inches off, would it not be flat? (Not level, but flat.) steve
as far as I know, it doesnt have to be level, but due to twisting and stuff, it is a good baseline to set things to although im not a machinist, I just watch for fun
He's just unnecessarily anal. There's no need to use a 199 level on a machine that's 3-pointed. Just like there's no need to have the stones' lengths, widths, and heights ground to match. As long as the faces are flat, obsessing over the other things has zero effect on the stones' performance.
@@WoodCutr1, I agree! I assemble high priced woodworking tools fora living. (I've got a brand new SawStop 3 HP Pro in my shop, that came in with a cracked trunnion, that I will fix tomorrow.) I KNOW the difference between aligned and level. Aligned NEEDS to be as close as you can make it. Level, well the bubble on a cheap combination square should be fine. (Although 1/2 inch off will NOT hurt a thing.) steve
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila, I disagree. If someone is buying a set of matched stones, they need to match. (And, they will, even if matched on a non level machine.) steve
Steve Skouson: No, it’s not critical at all to precision level heavy milling machines and surface grinders. I’ve ground thousands of extremely hard CPM-10 parts to + - .0002 tolerance over the last 25 years without checking the machine level once. What matters for this type of work is the correct grade of balanced grinding wheel properly dressed and a very flat magnetic chuck surface ground on the same machine.
REALLY dumb question time. If the whole machine is on the same feet, why be soooo precise with levelling? Won’t all the attachments move together? i.e. the precision is inherent within the machine not dependant on the bed being level? 😳
I take this back. Someone else has asked the same question. And was answered brilliantly. 👍 When dealing with the tolerances requirements of these units, any and all induced errors, must be minimised if not eliminated. This is an aspect of life that, although not previously exposed to, I find endlessly interesting. Keep educating us, for some, it’s worth it. 👍
These machines, lathes etc, remember are extremely heavy. So while its not so super critical for most people, having it as level as possible means the machine is not twisting under its own weight. High precision machines can be sensitive to even you walking around it unless they are on very thick concrete slabs.
He's just unnecessarily anal. There's no need to use a 199 level on a machine that's 3-pointed. Just like there's no need to have the stones' lengths, widths, and heights ground to match. As long as the faces are flat, obsessing over the other things has zero effect on the stones' performance.
Enjoyed the video. Why does a set need to be dimension matched if all you are doing is deburring surfaces? Is there some other purpose or something I'm missing?
Very good Kinematic observation and in absolute terms the best approach. Having said that the first 500 or so stones I ground were done that way. Now I have found it makes absolutely no difference in the final result. We make sure the stone is stable in the set up for the first side, don't care one bit about parallelism....
@@climberjb in use no, But for the price of them over 200usd a set I would think he should try to get them as close to Parallel as possible. wiping down the plate does not take very long or cost much.
I initially thought that too, but after thinking about it I'm not sure. Even if he did clean the mag chuck between each stone, it would have no functional impact on the final product, and I won't begrudge someone for eliminating an unnecessary step from a fab process, especially with the volume he is trying to achieve. Do I think it is worth $200 per? I dunno, but I do know that I can't do this myself at any price.
IMHO they should be sold in sets of 3 so they can wear off of each other with the 3 plate method. I own 3 norton flattening stones that i keep flat in that way. I used to only own one Norton flattening stone but then i noticed it would mate with my sharpening stones as matched pairs in spherical arcs. After buying 2 extra flattening stones i realized how big a problem it is to rely on 2 plates mating. 2 plates mating makes an arc(one concave one convex), and 3 plates mating makes a flat surface. 3 plate method is critical.
@@lukeb3930 they won't flatten each other, so it's futile. Rubbing the stones together doesn't lap them in. It only knocks any dust or debris or metal particles off (or into the pores of the stone) so the surface is smooth, but doesn't affect global flatness. The whole point of the stones is that they won't affect any other flat surface. They'll only cut another sausage if there are raised areas from a ding or dent.
You level to eliminate twists and bends in the machines ways. You are correct that the machine doesn't actually have to be level to be straight, but leveling is easy and gets you most of the way there. If the machine is not straight after leveling that's when you need to start pulling out shims and whatnot.
@@kal5169 What they don't show in this, to your point, is verifying the "level" at multiple points to make sure that it is consistent across the entire table and ways. However, with only three feet on that particular grinder there really isn't a good way to get twist out in this setup without shimming the ways themselves. With this grinder though, since it only really matters that the bed is parallel with the spindle where the wheel makes contact with the work, leveling is really only important for coolant drainage.
With enough use, the stones will wear down and not be as flat. This minimized by trying to use the full surface of the stone instead of just the middle or edge. These are really intended for light use on surfaces that are already quite flat. Also, most of these are sold in pairs and you are meant to rub the stones together a little before you use them in order to even out any wear. If they do become to worn to be used as precision surfaces, they could re-ground. The thickness will change, but the exact thickness isn't important.
@Ian Furlong mazur is correct. The stone is slid over the table surfaces gently to ensure there is no debris, that cannot be seen or felt. Its another 'Machinists tool' used to verify precision of the working machine they use. Cheers.
When I flatten my stones I stick a piece of waterproof sand paper to float glass with water. Put a grid of pencil lines on the stone and wet it then rub it across the sandpaper. It flattens very quickly. If there are any pencil marks on the stone it indicates low points and I have keep flattening it. Far quicker and cheaper than using a machine
That methoud will get you reasonably close within plus or minus a few thousand if your lucky, I use sets of three stones and hand lap them this gets me within a few ten thousand but takes forever. his stones are true to 50 millionths of an inch. so while you are not wrong. what you do, and what he does are not even close to the same thing.
That's the equivalent of people saying, "it's not a clip, it's a magazine." They say it because they heard it before, and they want to act like they know what they're talking about.
@@michaelkoch2109 I've seen just a small chuck key from a drillpress flying like a bullet , it stuck half an inch deep in a concrete wall. Don't want to know what such a chuck key does, with this walls it'll probably get right through it and stuck in your customers new truck if you're lucky. Ist es nicht der "Backenfutterschlüssel" ? bin kein Metaller außer musikalisch 😉
@@FabFunty"Backenfutterschlüssel" kann man auch sagen. Sagt aber kaum jemand so. Ich höre zwar gerne Musik (auch Metal), Aber ich bin musikalisch vollkommen untalentiert. Wenn ich singe, dann rennen die Leute in den Luftschutzbunker ... :-))
I understand the stones are flat and everything but a pair of 1x2x6 stones is about $40 before grinding. What justifies adding nearly $200 to the cost of the stones?
It is well worth $200 to not have to do it by hand. (many hours worth of hand lapping.) The diamond wheels and grinder are not cheap as well as other shop expenses. I am sure he makes a profit but not as much as you might think.
Buy the machinery and spend the time perfecting the craft in order to get these things flat within 50 millionths of an inch and I’m sure it’ll make a little more sense
@@Hoodedhorn You honestly think it’s that difficult to grind a stone flat? People do it by hand with lapping compound, having the grinder is easy compared to that 🤣
@@justinl.3587 Key words there are “50 millionths of an inch.” If you’re able to do that by hand I would love to see n in depth explanation of how you got it done.
Shop looks so much better since Lance has thinned out the equipment. Love his property there. Beautiful.
Thanks very much for sharing.
Ahhh, a chuck key sticking out of a chuck ! (at 2:42)
I do like Lance. Fun to be with. And a great friend for Adam
Man I’ve said this many times but lance could start a RUclips and it’d explode the man is a massive wealth of machine rebuilding knowledge not to mention the vet knowledge and big business. Plus his personality seems easy to take and he would be able to teach in a manner allot of teachers these days just can’t simply because they don’t have the passion for it
He maybe doesn't like the limelight or doesn't have the time or patience to be recording and editing videos, I agree though, I'd watch his videos
I humbled by your comments Jeremy, Thank you for your kindness....
Two wireless mike's really improves the quality of the video. Great job Adam and Lance.
Who's that Mike and how is he helping?
@@BloodyJMF Mike Rayfone puts alot of hard work and hours into these videos. The quality of his work is great
Love the friendship you guys display.
Always love seeing you and Lance together doing things in the shop. Its such a treat.
This video is very interesting to me because given the timeframe of when I ordered my 6" set and when I received them I'm pretty sure my set is somewhere in that stack of boxes.
Ran one of those ProtoTraks for several years in a tool room for machine maintenance. Simply awesome machines, very capable, easy to program on the fly.
Rob Renz is very sharp and knows a ton, among people who are no slouches themselves.
Thanks guys!
I love seeing Lance! The precission in his work is just astounding! I have a weird facination to precission 🤣 but really, awesome work, as always!
you can learn a lot listening to you guys, no arrogance about learning or teaching or instruction. i really enjoy the content. glad i found you 2
Jesus loves you🐠🕸🐝🐟🐊🪲🦖🐆🦙🐎🐚🦜🦚🐄🐕🐖🐈⬛🐃🐈🦓🐂🕷🦗🦭
The sound of two precision groud flat stones rubbing against each other is amazing.
Really relaxing when you two get together!
Its grate to see U and Lance. But next time please give one mic to him so we can hear him talking as good as we hearing you.
You can see him wearing one @6:10
He has a mic. LOL. You may need your ears checked.
Always nice to see Lance and the work he does in his shop. I've been wanting to get some precision stones from him for a while and I'll probably order some soon.
Once you start using stones (precision ground), you'll realize what you've been missing and won't want to continue without them. They're a must have for machinists but not only, they're a great tool even for metal fabricators or also woodworkers and hobbyists.
Passing them on the mill table every now and then makes a big difference and even stoning parts off the mill can give you a very nice finish if you don't have a surface grinder and will also improve precision in your parts.
Lance is an exceptionally generous person. In the early days of his creating the precision flat stones, I tried to buy a set, but he sent them to me for free. He didn't know me from Adam (pun intended), but gave them to me anyway. I really cherish the gift.
I love the visits you show with Lance. He knows stuff. That's what I'm here for.
Good afternoon from central Florida! Have a good one!
Always lots of fun to work in / see other folks' shops! Keep showing us that new shop progress! Thanks Adam. Loved those photos in the restaurant! Great family I'm sure.
Lance's precision ground stones are great. I bet I use them every third time I walk into the garage. Probably in my top 20 used tools.
About 15 years out of the machine shop jargon but still understand. Proud to say I still know every nut and bolt of a Hardinge Hlvh.
haven't watched the videos in a while, glad you're doing well Adam.
this was fascinating both the machining and the teaching aspect...
take it easy everyone, be nice, have fun
It's always a treat when you go visit lance! Thanks for taking us along !
Happy to have found you guys , watching for some time now .
Another channel to add to the list 26 Acer .
I found Rob Rense some yrs. ago , through some electrical test gear he custom made , too late to get in on the 10 he made ;(
My experience 1st 9th grade shop class [ do know of any place doing now ;( , then auto repair , next gunsmithing with shooting competition , no longer have space --- so you guys make me miss / but enjoy ;)
Thanks
Norton Abrasives had a factory here in Brantford Ontario Canada for as long as I can remember and I'm 61
for all those wondering what these are for, they are called precision ground flat stones. they are used to grind flat a surface that had been machined very flat since machining sometimes leaves behind burrs. grinding it with these stones leaves it as close to perfect as you can get
Great video, I appreciate the generous spirit. I did have a few notes that could be constructive though. It only takes a second with a squeege on the chuck, maybe that's why the extra time "sparking" out was needed because the stones would be flexing a bit if sitting on even the smallest piece of grit. I flip them twice because there's likely to be flex on the first side, and on the second flip it's just a fine cut, so both stones can be done at the same height setting and will be virtually matched in thickness too which could come in handy.. Grinding the sides square is nice too. I realize tuning new machines is a process and maybe you're aware of this but that chuck looks like it was ground with the wheel either out of round or out of balance... Rock on!
Nice to watch you learn something new, and stay humble - not everyone can. Always a pleasure watching your videos Mr Booth!
These flat stones are beautiful
Thats a brilliant photo of abbie! Have fun
Lance is the man!
I don't know I'm, I can only talk about his craft, and the love he puts in it is incredible
I got my stones from Lance a couple years ago now I think ....... they've been great and are still in great condition
I understand from the comments, specifically @mazur under @Ian Furlong's comment, that these stones are used to, "flaten the high spots on the tables for a mill or any other flat metal surface." That being said, what is added to the stones' capacity as shown in this video?
Why are Norton ~ $25 stones cut in two, machined, and then sold for $230?
I am not a machinist, plead ignorance, but am here to listen, watch, and learn.
I always wondered the same thing 😂
Robin Renzetti has a good video describing them: ruclips.net/video/DVLXsq7pi9Y/видео.html
The short version is that the original stones aren't very flat, and the grit in them will scratch flat surfaces they're used on. After precision grinding they're very flat, and the grit won't scratch another flat surface they're used on. They'll only remove high spots, but because they're so flat when used on another flat surface they won't cut the main surface, and they therefore won't distort the shape.
You're paying for time on a surface grinder with a diamond wheel. If you have a surface grinder, it's cheaper to make your own, but *lots* of machinists don't have surface grinders, they're quite expensive. And anyone working to high precision (mostly toolmakers) needs a precision ground flat stone, and usually such people make good money and can afford a good precision-ground stone set.
They're also always made in pairs, so that they can be used against one another to even their surfaces out before use, thus cutting the Norton stones in half.
@@PeregrineBF A stone is a stone and has no AI implemented. How should he know what a "dip" is"?
@@raikbusse7697 derp
@@littlejackalo5326 Lern doch mal bitte wenigstens englisch.
So, Adam, will a surface grinder be on your wish list for the new shop?
Thank you for documenting all of this knowledge!
Thanks for sharing Adam, great job by all of you. Love the precision work. Fred.
You never stop learning! Something new every day!
Nice work, Adam. Great call on using the double Røde mics, awesome job. Thanks!
I've been waiting for this video!! It's a nice coincidence seeing as I just ordered a set of these last week or so, can't wait to receive them. Maybe mine were in that pile on the table :) lol. love seeing lances shop, and Adam's videos!
Man I use a 12" level daily for my work. Leveling a TV on a wall with is easy, but these levels that exist for the accuracy you are trying to acheive are just crazy. I wonder how "off" I am with my level. Normally if a tv or a 3gang switch plate look level with the naked eye they are level, but if you put one of these precision levels on them they would be way off in the precision machinist world. thanks
Thanks for the video🤗😎🤗😎
If this is now a dedicated production machine, I'd put a second valve in series on the coolant. One is for adjustments and one for pure on/off.
Very interesting video, I never realized that there was sub industry to make sharpening stones even more true than the way they come from the factory?
Great video, I have the same controller on my Bridgeport. Lance is really going to love it.
The absolute precision never ceases to amaze me Adam. I do have a few question's though. 1-> "How often do you need to check the 'machines' for proper alignment?". 2-> "Do 'machines' come with a installed bubble level sensor, that can 'activate an alarm of sorts', if it goes out of a certain pre-set range?". The reason I ask, is because, I also have an OCD (LOL) watching the USGS earthquake map. For example if you're away on the Big Haul, and something happens back home, that you were not aware of. I can say for certain now, I'm over the worry of metal chips miss aliening things from watching Kurtis (CEEA)😅. It's really fascinating to watch you guys work. I caught this bug back in the day when NASA was repairing the Hubble Telescope, and the precision that took. Cheers, Blessings! ....ps: One final question, for something completely different that I do, "Do you treat any 'sliding' surfaces with graphite?" Because under a microscope, metal looks like the Rocky Mountains🤔🤫.
Yeah those prototrak bed Mills are really great machines
Thanks for sharing!
Right down the road from me (in Gainesville) looks like fun times
NICE, this is much easier, and I am sure more accurate than hand lapping. why only2? I have always used sets of 3 so I can keep them flat between jobs by lapping them.
Now I know why my stones were "delayed".
I have a pair on order from Lance and he just shipped them this week. I guess his "guest" delayed his schedule somewhat.
Just kidding guys, it's nice to be able to see what's potentially "your stuff" going through the process.
Thanks to Lance and Adam. Greetings from Canada's banana belt. 👍🇨🇦🇺🇦🕊️🇺🇲🤞
Nice to see you using a surface grinder
Well Said!! Enjoyed!!Cheers!:-)!
I see those are Norton stones. I live 16 miles from one of their 'Arkansas Stone' manufactures (and there are others in my area also).....and there are no shortage of small arkansas stones available....if that is what you're looking for.
I honestly never thought I would finish the barn shop before Lance finished that 10EE but looks like I have a good chance of that happening! LMAO
Did you manage to get it buttoned up for this past winter?
@@Abom79 Nope still needs a ceiling. Been slammed with work and can't seem to get caught up to have time for my own stuff.
Guys try visit CEE Australia very educational solo machinist with tons of tools big machines jaw dropping technique d best
Little rude to be advertising other people's RUclips channels in the comments section.
I love CEE, Big beautiful shop. I love that little dog. Great people. Must see.
So, am I the only one that keeps hearing "Can't Grinder"? I know it's Kent but it's funny to hear you guys talking about precision grinding precision stones with the "Can't Grinder"... lol
The timbre of Lance’s voice reminds me of Vincent Price.
Oh I can see it now, me catching that spinning handle right in the Seeds!!!😭🤬 Beautiful machine
Yah, I'm going to imagine you quickly learn to avoid it.
The grinding hold downs in the thumbnail. One thing we used to do in the shaper was to use sections of power hacksaw blades to hold the stock more securely in the vise. And when grinding bench stones. The surfaces really do not need to be parallel. A grinding vise will do. Or two sided tape. Just put some card stock between the jaws and the work. Used to use computer punch cards or something similiar.
Damn who makes that double axis level!?
Ahh Fell 👍
I love machining!
I like Lance's shop update. I've been looking at getting some of those stones for a while. Just placed my order.
But you need to put a mic on Lance when you have him in these videos. He's too quiet.
All lathes should have T slots on the cross slide. Wish mine did.
I got a get me a pair of those stones!
Lovely video
Thank you all!❤
Well crap I was going to send you some Precision lap stones. that I've been making since losing my job during the whole covid thing.
They're not that difficult to learn however once you learn it it's like riding a bike you'll never forget how to run it plus there's a lot of information out there for those prototrak machines
Am I the only one noticing the key in the chuck?
So much beauty in one video !!!!
Who left the chuck key in the Acra lathe?
tell me all about it being too low. Lathe and also my sand blast cabinet. Back pain the next day.
Why don’t you have a surface grinder, Adam? I use mine all the time.
Did you get a new dog? Abby is smiling so happy with a puppy in her lap.
She wants Gunnar, but he is ours!!
Why did you put Turcite in the leveling pads, is it to make adjusting the leveling screws easier?!
good job
There are quite some compression artefacts recently. Noticed it in your boating video earlier today and in this one too....
CLEANING PRECISION GROUND STONES: You should buy 2000 ml of stoko kresto hand cleaner. I have used it for over 20 years and it was great to get my hands clean for work. About 3 years ago I made some precision ground stones for myself and free for 4 friends after listening to Robin. (you need to buy a $500 diamond wheel which makes Lances stones a bargain unless you are doing a bunch of them) Robin talked about using an ultrasonic cleaner to clean them which I have done but it is slow and I don’t regularly have solution in the ultrasonic cleaner. One day, I had the idea that this hand cleaner has ground up walnut shells and a soap in it that should not harm the stones so: Put a marble size glob of this hand cleaner on the face of one stone and smear it around to cover it, then rub the two stones together like you usually do and then rinse in warm water. Repeat a second time if needed. You will be absolutely amazed at how clean and degreased they get. Tell your buddies.
Effectively what you are doing is lapping them since that hand cleanser has an abrasive in it anyway. If you add a third stone in the mix and a ton of time you could theoretically not only clean but reflatten your stones at the same time .. or you could make them significantly less precise just as easily. Lance and Adam did another couple videos a while back talking about lapping large surface plates and Tom at oxtools has shown how to do the same thing on his channel on a smaller scale. It would be interesting to see how effective hand cleanser can be as a lapping compound ..
@@andarkelorin8797 if the abrasive in the cleaner was close to the hardness of the stones your analysis would be correct. However, walnut shells are so much softer than the stones they’d only scrub not abrade the stones. If the abrasive was let’s say pumice it would be a problem. Try it you will love it and the hand cleaner is super for your hands also.
@@bruceanderson9461 I'll have to look into it. Thanks!
Just spray with WD40 and all fine stones will unclog. Ruby, black Arkansas, fine India as well.
@@soldier715 try the stoko kresto to de grease and clean precision ground stones. You will never go back to WD40 for precision ground flat stones. If you have never used precision ground stones you won’t understand why you don’t want any oil on them. All other stones without the ground surface may work well with WD40 but the precision ground stones get really oily-dirty fast as they remove all oil on the surface of the metal and this interferes with there use. Other unground stones don’t have the squeegee effect.
I really like Lance, i think he's a really cool guy. But i'm bummed he got rid of some of his machines. I was really hoping to see that planer he was rebuilding running. Not the Rockford openside but the other one he had.
Is that a rat terrier there at the end!!??
Hiya Adam
This Acra lathe looks a lot like a Precision Matthews lathe : same square styling and architecture.
they're rebadged Taiwanese lathe.
same as jet, grizzly, enco etc...
I am kind of interested in testing my naniwa water stones compared to these stock oil stones for flatness. Then testing for flatness a waterstone that had the traditional japanese way of flattening. Obviously Lance's ground stones are precision grounded to so they far flatter, just wondering how much of a difference in flatness.
Why is it so critical to have these
machine so level?
I can see that having the ways parallel
to the spindle and tailstock, (lathe) or
the blade perpendicular to the table
(table saw) or the bed in line with the
head. (Mill.)
If all the parts of the machine are aligned
to each other, you should be able to jack
up one side, a few inches, and it would
STILL be "dead nuts on."
Take a surface plate. If one of the 3
feet was 3 inches off, would it not be
flat? (Not level, but flat.)
steve
as far as I know, it doesnt have to be level, but due to twisting and stuff, it is a good baseline to set things to
although im not a machinist, I just watch for fun
He's just unnecessarily anal. There's no need to use a 199 level on a machine that's 3-pointed. Just like there's no need to have the stones' lengths, widths, and heights ground to match. As long as the faces are flat, obsessing over the other things has zero effect on the stones' performance.
@@WoodCutr1, I agree! I assemble high priced
woodworking tools fora living. (I've got a brand
new SawStop 3 HP Pro in my shop, that came
in with a cracked trunnion, that I will fix tomorrow.)
I KNOW the difference between aligned and level.
Aligned NEEDS to be as close as you can make
it. Level, well the bubble on a cheap combination
square should be fine. (Although 1/2 inch off will
NOT hurt a thing.)
steve
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila, I disagree. If someone is buying a set
of matched stones, they need to match.
(And, they will, even if matched on a non
level machine.)
steve
Steve Skouson: No, it’s not critical at all to precision level heavy milling machines and surface grinders. I’ve ground thousands of extremely hard CPM-10 parts to + - .0002 tolerance over the last 25 years without checking the machine level once. What matters for this type of work is the correct grade of balanced grinding wheel properly dressed and a very flat magnetic chuck surface ground on the same machine.
REALLY dumb question time.
If the whole machine is on the same feet, why be soooo precise with levelling?
Won’t all the attachments move together? i.e. the precision is inherent within the machine not dependant on the bed being level? 😳
I don't think that's a dumb question buddy.
I take this back. Someone else has asked the same question. And was answered brilliantly. 👍
When dealing with the tolerances requirements of these units, any and all induced errors, must be minimised if not eliminated.
This is an aspect of life that, although not previously exposed to, I find endlessly interesting.
Keep educating us, for some, it’s worth it. 👍
These machines, lathes etc, remember are extremely heavy. So while its not so super critical for most people, having it as level as possible means the machine is not twisting under its own weight. High precision machines can be sensitive to even you walking around it unless they are on very thick concrete slabs.
He's just unnecessarily anal. There's no need to use a 199 level on a machine that's 3-pointed. Just like there's no need to have the stones' lengths, widths, and heights ground to match. As long as the faces are flat, obsessing over the other things has zero effect on the stones' performance.
Enjoyed the video. Why does a set need to be dimension matched if all you are doing is deburring surfaces? Is there some other purpose or something I'm missing?
Maybe he could put the stone on 3 points (small bullets) before grinding the first surface? To prevent the stone from tilting...
Very good Kinematic observation and in absolute terms the best approach. Having said that the first 500 or so stones I ground were done that way. Now I have found it makes absolutely no difference in the final result. We make sure the stone is stable in the set up for the first side, don't care one bit about parallelism....
If he doesn’t clean the chuck after grinding one side, there’s no way in hell I’d buy his stones..
Does the sides being parallel doesn't really matter? Each side will be flat either way.
@@climberjb in use no, But for the price of them over 200usd a set I would think he should try to get them as close to Parallel as possible. wiping down the plate does not take very long or cost much.
I initially thought that too, but after thinking about it I'm not sure. Even if he did clean the mag chuck between each stone, it would have no functional impact on the final product, and I won't begrudge someone for eliminating an unnecessary step from a fab process, especially with the volume he is trying to achieve. Do I think it is worth $200 per? I dunno, but I do know that I can't do this myself at any price.
He could just have an air gun blow off all the coolant it would take a few seconds.
What abt leaving the chuck KEY in the Lathe...too busy making TV lol
👍🏻
Theoretically aren't the stones "Precision" until the first time you use them, then they have wear?
IMHO they should be sold in sets of 3 so they can wear off of each other with the 3 plate method. I own 3 norton flattening stones that i keep flat in that way.
I used to only own one Norton flattening stone but then i noticed it would mate with my sharpening stones as matched pairs in spherical arcs. After buying 2 extra flattening stones i realized how big a problem it is to rely on 2 plates mating. 2 plates mating makes an arc(one concave one convex), and 3 plates mating makes a flat surface. 3 plate method is critical.
@@lukeb3930 they won't flatten each other, so it's futile. Rubbing the stones together doesn't lap them in. It only knocks any dust or debris or metal particles off (or into the pores of the stone) so the surface is smooth, but doesn't affect global flatness. The whole point of the stones is that they won't affect any other flat surface. They'll only cut another sausage if there are raised areas from a ding or dent.
What the purpose of leveling a machine tool? The accuracy is based of the ways being flat . These machines are installed in ships.
What am I missing?
You level to eliminate twists and bends in the machines ways. You are correct that the machine doesn't actually have to be level to be straight, but leveling is easy and gets you most of the way there. If the machine is not straight after leveling that's when you need to start pulling out shims and whatnot.
@@kal5169
Aaah
Thank you!
@@kal5169 What they don't show in this, to your point, is verifying the "level" at multiple points to make sure that it is consistent across the entire table and ways. However, with only three feet on that particular grinder there really isn't a good way to get twist out in this setup without shimming the ways themselves. With this grinder though, since it only really matters that the bed is parallel with the spindle where the wheel makes contact with the work, leveling is really only important for coolant drainage.
What grinding wheel does he use?
Why doesn’t the thickness of the stone not decrease with use and affect the finished part? Thanks for going to the trouble of filming this for us 👍👍
With enough use, the stones will wear down and not be as flat. This minimized by trying to use the full surface of the stone instead of just the middle or edge. These are really intended for light use on surfaces that are already quite flat. Also, most of these are sold in pairs and you are meant to rub the stones together a little before you use them in order to even out any wear. If they do become to worn to be used as precision surfaces, they could re-ground. The thickness will change, but the exact thickness isn't important.
@@ElectricGears great, thanks 👍
Adam, could you please send “Good Luck America” channel how to stop the shadows on the videos like you did for your videos?
I think he said he turned the Hz from 60 to 120 if I remember correctly.
I changed the shutter speed to 120.
@@Abom79 thanks
forgive my ignorance, but what are precision stones used for in the machine shop?
They using them to flaten the high spots on the tables for a mill or any other flat metal surface.
@Ian Furlong mazur is correct. The stone is slid over the table surfaces gently to ensure there is no debris, that cannot be seen or felt. Its another 'Machinists tool' used to verify precision of the working machine they use. Cheers.
ruclips.net/video/DVLXsq7pi9Y/видео.html
When I flatten my stones I stick a piece of waterproof sand paper to float glass with water. Put a grid of pencil lines on the stone and wet it then rub it across the sandpaper. It flattens very quickly. If there are any pencil marks on the stone it indicates low points and I have keep flattening it. Far quicker and cheaper than using a machine
That methoud will get you reasonably close within plus or minus a few thousand if your lucky, I use sets of three stones and hand lap them this gets me within a few ten thousand but takes forever. his stones are true to 50 millionths of an inch. so while you are not wrong. what you do, and what he does are not even close to the same thing.
@@karm65 the method I use is good enough for carpentry work.
@@KevinAmatt True, still apples compared to oranges though.
Never leave the key in the chuck of the lathe! (minute 2:41) - I wrote "key" because I don't know the correct word. In german "Futterschlüssel".
key is the correct word!
That's the equivalent of people saying, "it's not a clip, it's a magazine." They say it because they heard it before, and they want to act like they know what they're talking about.
I'm a specialist in metal cutting. I have witnessed a bad accident. It was a real experience! I can tell you it was not a pretty sight!
@@michaelkoch2109 I've seen just a small chuck key from a drillpress flying like a bullet , it stuck half an inch deep in a concrete wall. Don't want to know what such a chuck key does, with this walls it'll probably get right through it and stuck in your customers new truck if you're lucky.
Ist es nicht der "Backenfutterschlüssel" ? bin kein Metaller außer musikalisch 😉
@@FabFunty"Backenfutterschlüssel" kann man auch sagen. Sagt aber kaum jemand so. Ich höre zwar gerne Musik (auch Metal), Aber ich bin musikalisch vollkommen untalentiert. Wenn ich singe, dann rennen die Leute in den Luftschutzbunker ... :-))
How often do you have to re-flatten the stones, if ever? How do you use the stone? Precision surface against precision surface (stone to metal)?
It’s common to regrind them on occasion, depends on the use and how hard they’ve been abused.
I understand the stones are flat and everything but a pair of 1x2x6 stones is about $40 before grinding. What justifies adding nearly $200 to the cost of the stones?
It is well worth $200 to not have to do it by hand. (many hours worth of hand lapping.) The diamond wheels and grinder are not cheap as well as other shop expenses. I am sure he makes a profit but not as much as you might think.
Buy the machinery and spend the time perfecting the craft in order to get these things flat within 50 millionths of an inch and I’m sure it’ll make a little more sense
13:11 That is one reason why $200. The stones you bought are hardly "flat". If you need better, then that's where the $160 goes.
@@Hoodedhorn You honestly think it’s that difficult to grind a stone flat? People do it by hand with lapping compound, having the grinder is easy compared to that 🤣
@@justinl.3587 Key words there are “50 millionths of an inch.” If you’re able to do that by hand I would love to see n in depth explanation of how you got it done.