I just finished building an ale deck within the last couple of days. This list is relevant. For example, I did indeed choose both moxes, mind twist and sol ring over black lotus. I had to cut 3 cards and lotus was one. It’s for a 2v2 tournament. I have a team mate to think about. And no, I’m not playing loa in this build.
Yeah, that's the main purpose of all my lists. I make a lot of them because I hope they can eventually help making some clarity when building decks or simply buying cards.
Good list. Loa and ancestral recall are my top 2. I’ve always enjoyed drawing cards and as we all know there is not many ways of drawing cards in 93-94. Library turn 1 unanswered is usually gg.
Yeah, I mentioned that in the description because I'm fully aware that Library at 15 is the weak link in my list. It's pretty much silent late in the game, but it can steal games and giving up on a land that produces colored mana is a very reasonable cost. So, it's the dark horse for high ranks. I think, however, that Mind Twist is better and so is Demonic Tutor. Also because I like to play my spells, I'm not a control player.
@@furrys.1304 Yeah, it can be pretty much useless if you don't have spells with X in their cost. Enabling turn 1 Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune or a big Mind Twist is disgusting though. Very hard to judge.
That's a brutal combo! Would you consider using it in The Deck? With Maze of Ith as well. Yeah, Library is the weak link of this list. I mentioned it in the description. However I think that Sol Ring is at least #10 and Mind Twist (and possibly Demonic Tutor) are also better. Hard to tell. P9 should be at least power 10 indeed! Top 16 cards are THAT good.
I like your perspective on the list. I would rank differently but it doesn’t mean I disagree with you. Playing style has allot to do with preferences. I do believe the moxen are stronger but I think they need to be played together. Having 1 in a deck bs having 1 lotus or 1 library of Alexandra for me diminishes the power of each card… however if you have multiple in the deck and draw 1… then yes, that 1 card on the board state is better but it is a factor of 6 fold better because anyone playing all 5 moxen is playing a sol ring too… make sense? For me… the one card that absolutely finishes a game is mindtwist. People splash black just for that card and there is a “gentleman’s format” just to eliminate mindtwist and LOA. If that card gets played, someone is going to lost most of the time… it sucks to get out of that hole!!!
It's amazing how I can 100% agree on everything you just said. I always say: Mind Twist is the best card in the game, and Demonic Tutor is the second best card in the game because that's the one that puts Mind Twist in your hand. Well, if it's not the best it' at least the most unfair. Yeah I know about gentleman, but I don't like them. LoA is okaish when 4 Strip Mines are allowed and Wheel, Timetwister and Balance are just as bad as Mind Twist. So my gentlemen rules would be that you can't play these 4 cards on turn 1.
@ yep… for sure. The formats I grew up with don’t allow 4 strip mines so I generally don’t play with it but I board in plenty of land destruction because that’s generally what my play group was like and I’m a mono black player at heart so… sinkhole is in most of my decks anyways. We never played with chaos orbs growing up either. This has been an entirely new thing for me in this last few years seeing that card be played. When I was a kid you would get made fun of for playing that card… it was considered stupid… and the rules that are used now are not the rules that were used then. I don’t dislike it… it’s just different
Cool, thanks for the response. I never thought OS included Fallen Empires (probably because there aren't really any playable cards in the set. besides maybe hymn to tourach) Yeah I knew mana crypt was an old promo but didn't know what year it was "released"
@@furrys.1304 You're welcome! Yeah, Fallen Empires aren't groundbreaking but there are actually some cards. HTT really makes Mono Black and Order of The Ebon Hand is a significant upgrade for Black Knight because it can attack into Mishra's Factory. Order of Leitbur is not as important because white has more ways to get over Factory. Derelor and Aeolipile sometimes see play. Goblin Grenade is also a good card and Deep Spawn is a good choice for reanimator decks. Initiates of the Ebon Hand can make an appearance in Monoblack.
I used to run order of ebon hand in my old mono black necro deck way back in the days of "type 2" I really like Mindstab Thrull too. I think it's kind of overlooked sometimes but I don't think it would really be useful in OS.
@90sTCGgaming my group is quite old and we use FE and the reason is because this is where Magic started to change to the block system afterwards and underwent major changes. Ice age presented major differences in art to established cards and the typeface was changed. Most importantly to us, the sideways and circled “T” tap symbol was removed after fallen empires. For all of these reasons, this is why my group considered FE to be a part of the original sets and everything after it to be fundamentally different.
i think the guide sheds insight but also laughable in some spaces. like how can ball lightning be better than circle of protection: red? and shatterstorm is not on the list? and stasis?
I'd rank Stasis roughly in the post-top 50 area. That's where most combo cards are, but things like Winter Orb see play outside of Prison archetypes. Stasis is one peculiar deck, my top 50 cards in Old School see play across multiple decks. And this is true for most honorable mentions too. This doesn't mean Stasis is a bad card! I think Shatterstorm is heavily featured in this channel! However, it's a sideboard card and it's not a card for every deck. Ball Lightning is a maindeck card, and one unique creature. Circle of Protection: Red is a sideboard card, again. Also, players using red should have counterplays. At the end of the day it's all about having those dual lands and full playsets of everything... but there are counterplays indeed.
I agree that ball lightning is a main deck card but not very used one anymore… it’s a bery specific one that needs help from the green giant growth play to be valuable with kird apes and all that… like as a 2 of in a fantasy zoo deck. The reason is that everyone is pretty much main decking red for bolts or white at this point and there are also allot of first strike creatures in the format being played that simply eat ball lightnings…
@@Leroyantithesis Which format are you playing? That's the mother of all questions! Ball Lightning likes Berserk, that's greedy but it can do great things. Kird Ape wants more forests in the deck. Other than that, Ball Lightning looks like a monored card to me. Monored + dual lands for sideboard cards.
I just finished building an ale deck within the last couple of days. This list is relevant. For example, I did indeed choose both moxes, mind twist and sol ring over black lotus. I had to cut 3 cards and lotus was one. It’s for a 2v2 tournament. I have a team mate to think about. And no, I’m not playing loa in this build.
Yeah, that's the main purpose of all my lists. I make a lot of them because I hope they can eventually help making some clarity when building decks or simply buying cards.
Good list. Loa and ancestral recall are my top 2. I’ve always enjoyed drawing cards and as we all know there is not many ways of drawing cards in 93-94. Library turn 1 unanswered is usually gg.
Yeah, I mentioned that in the description because I'm fully aware that Library at 15 is the weak link in my list. It's pretty much silent late in the game, but it can steal games and giving up on a land that produces colored mana is a very reasonable cost. So, it's the dark horse for high ranks.
I think, however, that Mind Twist is better and so is Demonic Tutor. Also because I like to play my spells, I'm not a control player.
Also forgot to mention 4 Strip Mines etc.
Like black lotus it's effect really depends on the timing you get to play it. Drawing a Lotus late game probably isn't going to do much for you.
@@furrys.1304 Yeah, it can be pretty much useless if you don't have spells with X in their cost. Enabling turn 1 Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune or a big Mind Twist is disgusting though. Very hard to judge.
Library of Alexandria is commonly considered the tenth of the Power Nine. When paired with Candelabra of Tawnos, it is insanely powerful!
That's a brutal combo! Would you consider using it in The Deck? With Maze of Ith as well.
Yeah, Library is the weak link of this list.
I mentioned it in the description.
However I think that Sol Ring is at least #10 and Mind Twist (and possibly Demonic Tutor) are also better. Hard to tell. P9 should be at least power 10 indeed!
Top 16 cards are THAT good.
“this is my list, so i make the rules” 😤🤯🥶
It sounds arrogant at first glance but it couldn't be otherwise!
@ oh no, i’m agree with you. maybe i would switch time walk and sol ring, but your top 10 is right
Awesome
I like your perspective on the list.
I would rank differently but it doesn’t mean I disagree with you. Playing style has allot to do with preferences.
I do believe the moxen are stronger but I think they need to be played together. Having 1 in a deck bs having 1 lotus or 1 library of Alexandra for me diminishes the power of each card… however if you have multiple in the deck and draw 1… then yes, that 1 card on the board state is better but it is a factor of 6 fold better because anyone playing all 5 moxen is playing a sol ring too… make sense?
For me… the one card that absolutely finishes a game is mindtwist. People splash black just for that card and there is a “gentleman’s format” just to eliminate mindtwist and LOA.
If that card gets played, someone is going to lost most of the time… it sucks to get out of that hole!!!
It's amazing how I can 100% agree on everything you just said.
I always say: Mind Twist is the best card in the game, and Demonic Tutor is the second best card in the game because that's the one that puts Mind Twist in your hand.
Well, if it's not the best it' at least the most unfair.
Yeah I know about gentleman, but I don't like them. LoA is okaish when 4 Strip Mines are allowed and Wheel, Timetwister and Balance are just as bad as Mind Twist.
So my gentlemen rules would be that you can't play these 4 cards on turn 1.
@ yep… for sure. The formats I grew up with don’t allow 4 strip mines so I generally don’t play with it but I board in plenty of land destruction because that’s generally what my play group was like and I’m a mono black player at heart so… sinkhole is in most of my decks anyways.
We never played with chaos orbs growing up either. This has been an entirely new thing for me in this last few years seeing that card be played. When I was a kid you would get made fun of for playing that card… it was considered stupid… and the rules that are used now are not the rules that were used then.
I don’t dislike it… it’s just different
@@Leroyantithesis Yeah, I don't like the idea of flipping orbs in tournament environment.
Is Mana Crypt legal in the OS format?
It's not. Mana Crypt was first printed in 1995 as a promo, Old School is 93/94: from Alpha to Fallen Empires (Swedish is Alpha-The Dark).
Cool, thanks for the response. I never thought OS included Fallen Empires (probably because there aren't really any playable cards in the set. besides maybe hymn to tourach) Yeah I knew mana crypt was an old promo but didn't know what year it was "released"
@@furrys.1304 You're welcome!
Yeah, Fallen Empires aren't groundbreaking but there are actually some cards. HTT really makes Mono Black and Order of The Ebon Hand is a significant upgrade for Black Knight because it can attack into Mishra's Factory. Order of Leitbur is not as important because white has more ways to get over Factory.
Derelor and Aeolipile sometimes see play. Goblin Grenade is also a good card and Deep Spawn is a good choice for reanimator decks. Initiates of the Ebon Hand can make an appearance in Monoblack.
I used to run order of ebon hand in my old mono black necro deck way back in the days of "type 2" I really like Mindstab Thrull too. I think it's kind of overlooked sometimes but I don't think it would really be useful in OS.
@90sTCGgaming my group is quite old and we use FE and the reason is because this is where Magic started to change to the block system afterwards and underwent major changes. Ice age presented major differences in art to established cards and the typeface was changed. Most importantly to us, the sideways and circled “T” tap symbol was removed after fallen empires.
For all of these reasons, this is why my group considered FE to be a part of the original sets and everything after it to be fundamentally different.
i think the guide sheds insight but also laughable in some spaces. like how can ball lightning be better than circle of protection: red? and shatterstorm is not on the list? and stasis?
I'd rank Stasis roughly in the post-top 50 area.
That's where most combo cards are, but things like Winter Orb see play outside of Prison archetypes.
Stasis is one peculiar deck, my top 50 cards in Old School see play across multiple decks. And this is true for most honorable mentions too.
This doesn't mean Stasis is a bad card!
I think Shatterstorm is heavily featured in this channel! However, it's a sideboard card and it's not a card for every deck.
Ball Lightning is a maindeck card, and one unique creature. Circle of Protection: Red is a sideboard card, again.
Also, players using red should have counterplays. At the end of the day it's all about having those dual lands and full playsets of everything... but there are counterplays indeed.
I agree that ball lightning is a main deck card but not very used one anymore… it’s a bery specific one that needs help from the green giant growth play to be valuable with kird apes and all that… like as a 2 of in a fantasy zoo deck.
The reason is that everyone is pretty much main decking red for bolts or white at this point and there are also allot of first strike creatures in the format being played that simply eat ball lightnings…
@@Leroyantithesis Which format are you playing? That's the mother of all questions!
Ball Lightning likes Berserk, that's greedy but it can do great things.
Kird Ape wants more forests in the deck.
Other than that, Ball Lightning looks like a monored card to me. Monored + dual lands for sideboard cards.
@90sTCGgaming I play a format called Type 0. It has been around since the early 2000’s. There is a really big old school scene in my city