Fun fact: APTN, Canada's Indigenous broadcasting service, literally plays Avatar on their national TV channel every single week. Why? Because Avatar is the most potent anti-colonial call to revolution in modern cinematic history. Seriously though, the movie's message of resistance and Indigenous sovereignty is incredibly powerful. I fucking love Avatar.
Listening to this right after seeing the second movie, and I feel like this nailed the whole direction of the franchise. James Cameron was like "okay, time to make a sequel that'll be about a blended human-Na'vi family accepting their roles as revolutionaries and community members instead of running away from collective action like 21st-century American society conditions us to do", and so much of it aligns with everything this episode brings up
your description of the friendzoned navi jumping into the back of the helicopt er scene made me cry like i was watchin it all over again in all its glory
Bill Hicks is funny in that reactionaries will point to him as a guy who says it like it is and doesn’t care about offending people and then his act is like “go read Chomsky”
"We will see if his insanity can be cured." Probably the best line in the whole damn movie. Perfectly captures how an outsider would view our military-industrial complex: An insane system that is spreading through our species.
It’s also kinda comforting... you’re not crazy for feeling miserable in this society. You’re not weird for thinking it all has to be torn down and rebuilt.
And we should take it seriously, I think. It's not "insane", like just a poetic way of saying bad and dysfunctional; it's insane as in what we have collectively convinced ourselves is normal and the attitude and form of psychology and ideology which goes with it and posture towards the world and each other and everything, basically what we call late capitalist culture, is, to them, literally a form of clinical insanity.
@@stabbinfresh If you look up the review by Mark Fisher ("Avatar as Ideological Symptom") he makes the point that the mechs look like they've come from the MYST games, seemingly anchored in a past view of a fantasy, not a future humanity.
This might be lame, but when this and the couple episodes before came out I was in a really shitty hopeless place. And those episodes really helped me get through it. It felt like the chapo before Bernie lost, the chapo that opened my eyes to politics and made me care about shit. Anyways thanks :)
Col Miles Quaritch, pinned under the wreckage of his mech: “You traitorous son of a bitch! You sided with these alien savages over your own species!” Jake Sully: “Sorry, Colonel...but Blue Lives Matter.”
Hearing Felix, one of the most irony-poisoned, least-genuine-while-broadcasting people I've ever listened to earnestly say "I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding" is some fantastic advertising for this movie.
I keep listening to this episode, which makes sense, because I was the psycho that went in 6 times when it was in theatres. It always feels like opening a septic wound in hopes of healing it. Since hope is scarce rn I'll take it where I can find it
You should watch the extended edition of the film. It has extra scenes like an abortive attempt at a school for the navi that eventually got shot up by the soldiers, and a scene at the beginning where jake is slumming it in a Blade Runner city on earth.
The directors cut of the movie is a must. It starts on earth and is even more anti imperialist imo. Also on your guys point of having to die for the revolution, every one of our main human characters dies in someway in service to the Na'vi. Grace dies for real, Michelle Rodriguez dies for real, the scientists guys avatar dies meaning he will never really be one of the people, and can due to the rebellion he can also not go home, jakes human body dies.
This was a wild ride lmao, it's always such a cool feeling when you hear someone point out things you couldn't yourself back then... call me a loser but this was probably the second time i felt hopeful about the future after Bernie crushing Nevada lmao...
Big theme in the 80s, i read a Jungian essay about how the Berlin Wall was a schizoid symptom. Reunification and globalism were seen as a great cohesive change for the better, but they were just breaking down protective barriers (nation, region, locality, family) between the consumer and the marketplace.
@@xyaeiounn Oh wow. That does make the idea of reunification seem a potential disaster as well. A new con based on an old model. Perhaps I can seek solace in the fact that everything is always breaking apart and uniting again in a different form. The difference gives me some solace.
@@landryprichard6778 Sure! For better or worse, i think the world is going to become one giant place. The usual suspects will twist that to serve them if they're allowed. With China, I'm concerned there's real links between the pragmatic and the totalitarian, the decency in the human spirit will always be an obstacle and a catalyst though.
@@xyaeiounn Amen, friend. I guess all true change does have to occur on the individual layer first...and only then can we make a collective difference. It's exhausting, but I guess it's because I'm still looking for the massive collective difference to occur in my lifetime. Selfish on my part. It's the loooooong game I should have trust in. ❤️
"The world is nearly all parcelled out, and what there is left of it is being divided up, conquered and colonised. To think of these stars that you see overhead at night, these vast worlds which we can never reach. I would annex the planets if I could; I often think of that. It makes me sad to see them so clear and yet so far." - Cecil Rhodes, shithead
Aww. Thanks guys. As a mother I definitely don't get the recognition I need to keep feeling like it's a worthwhile endeavor. But you n James Cameron have helped me on this day. It's a nice change from Bill Burr's jokes. Idky that still irks me but it does.
I don't know if I buy the idea that Avatar never entered the cultural consciousness because it was somehow too subversive to be absorbed. The system can absorb anything and commodify it. For gods sake, George Lucas explicitly said that the Empire was inspired by the US and the Rebels were the Viet Cong
You can very easily do a reading of Avatar that IS that subversive, but either Cameron was playing with his cards very close to his chest, or it was partially unintentional. Despite how unsubtle it is, in many ways its anti-imperialist metaphor isn't obvious enough for the average American back in the aughts, and maybe not today. Not to be all "I'm so smart" but rather the idea of what imperialism is hasn't really permeated the American conciousness, and may not be at the forefront of James Cameron's mind either.
@@IndieGinge The concept of making the Pandora and the Na'vi so beautiful that they could be seen as the wholeness missing from the garish sprawl on Earth is lost as long as viewers don't identify with that weakness and the lack of a future.
@@romanticplacebo3693 Which is sad. Like they say "you live on Pandora". As gorgeous as floating mountains are, do they actually have anything on Killamanjo, to just give one example?
Lucas has some good political instincts but he's not an auteur in the same way Cameron is. If the original trilogy had actually been made the way Lucas wanted to it probably would have never had anywhere near the level of cultural hegemony that it shares today. The studios had planned to make it into an assembly line toy factory pretty much from the beginning.
That's what brought me back to this episode for the Nth time. Was watching a retrospective of District 9, and the channel had another retrospective, this time about Avatar. They're similar in some ways, for sure. I'd love a Movie Mindset on District 9.
@Ethan Shone I think it's this one. If I remember right they talk about what they like and don't so you understand their critical perspective. Snowpiercer commentary is very small part. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/frostchristman-episode-2-the-legend-of-curlys-gold&ved=2ahUKEwiInKCGpNDtAhXUtp4KHRLVCNwQjjgwAHoECAEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Q8Y_YmTHpl_C0u1jwpzgM
This ep is the absolute pinnacle of the irony/sincerity dialectic. I don’t know it was possible to be both 100% ironic and 100% sincere at the same time until listening to this.
I think you're projecting all of the irony. They openly talk about how blockbuster films over the past decade are pure irony poisoning and how refresher Avatar, which made nearly $3 billion, is completely sincere.
This was great. I actually felt exhilarated listening to this episode, and you were absolutely convincing. I'm ready to preach your gospel, and I too believe James Cameron will come back to save cinema and engineer us yet another cultural reset
Also happy to announce that accounting for inflation and the re-releases this past year that Avatar is once again the highest grossing film of all time.
The problem with the white savior narrative in the movie is that he becomes a leader. It would have been fine (and perhaps even a little subversive) if he had just become an advisor or a tactician, but he ends up in some kind of chieftain role which is a bit annoying.
Yeah, I get the sense that he was in a leadership position for the one fight because of his familiarity with the humans. He only uses his status as the rider to unify the clams but is still subservient to the chieftain, and then separates from Toruk after the battle.
He was kind of a glorified messenger. Bringing the good news to each Na'vi tribe - that there's a way to fight and win, and we know what it is. I see your point tho, it's not entirely wrong.
You know this kind of why I like Far Cry 3 as a Story ( I know old game but the best Far Cry for a reason). Jason isn't a Savior, he doesn't help anyone who isn't in his circle of Family/Friends, you the player can kill your own allies and face no real consequences, and the typical native love interest is just as crazy as the bad guys and the game's good ending has you leave the island with your friends and go home. Also Jason is some dopey trust fund baby who can only fight because he's hoped up on all kinds of drugs allowing him to hunt and kill without hesitation or remorse. And yet people called that game a white savior narrative. If anything its a deconstruction of a white savior narrative. I know unrelated to the vid but that's immediately where my mind went when discussing Avatar as Subversive.
@@hegaliandialectics4289 Yeah but that's really the point isn't it. Jason has no business being anywhere near that island and wanting to get the hell out of there as fast as possible with your friends/family is the mind set that gets you the best ending. Actually wanting to stay and enjoy yourself gets you the bad ending.
This is the only movie I've seen where I've adored the themes this much while also thinking the script is dogshit. If this one movie had a good screenplay then we'd have achieved socialism by now, I'm seeing the sequel tomorrow.
Something Lucas, Cameron and many other auteurs understand better than marvel-dc producers is that because film is a visual medium if everything else is done correctly, dialogue is the least important; R2D2. It's just really dorky to insist on good dialogue simply because real people don't sound like that unless they are high.
So Uncivilized being unabashedly in the tank for Lucas, especially the Prequels, helped bring me around on that 'wooden dialogue' stuff too. It's not just 'forgivable', it's a specific style thing and it's good. It's sincerity. It's a way out of the forest of Marvel Movie Whedonism Soybantz, as the Chapos would put it.
52:25 According to the book i got my kid from 2010 the navi have an anatomy similar to humans in that they have genitals between their legs. Joining neural tendrils is just an added layer of intimacy. Navi girls don't have to fake it.
The thing about Amazon editing the film is not true. The Chapo guys actually are mis-remembering. The original/theatrical version of the film has a shortened sex scene that does not show them connecting their braids, the full sex scene is included in one of the extended versions, and you can see it if you have the blu-ray set which includes 3 different cuts of the film. Or, if the braid connecting actually was shown in the original theatrical run and was subsequently edited out, it was done by Cameron himself and/or 20th Century Fox, because it now isn't shown in the theatrical edition on any platform, including blu-ray. Either way, it wasn't Amazon/Bezos that edited it, the was done by Cameron/Fox.
This is definitely not a bit. Do you really think the Chapo guys would have the mental fortitude to spend an hour and half breaking down the minutiae of a movie about blue space cats for a bit?
I literally only saw this movie because my friend was raving to me about how cool the 3D effects in it were. Not to take anything away from the film or its message, but I don't think we can overlook how many other simpletons like me just wanted to see the cool alien planet in the nifty 3D film.
I used to just think of avatar as grown up Ferngully, buuuuuuut I see what they’re saying, it’s very anti colonial and there isn’t enough of that in our culture
One thing to point out, the scene in wicker man with the bees is an alternate ending included in its dvd release. The version of wicker man on Amazon is most likely the theatrical release unless they fucked w/ it further
I don't think you can compare Avatar to the Avengers. Avengers is a milk toast movie aimed at everyone, while Avatar is aimed at older audiences. Not to say you can't sh*t on Dinsey the Boys do it all the time.
great ep. not a regular listener but this one really made me think a lot. I thought Avatar was cool when I first saw it but tbh I just saw it as dances with wolves. My one problem I guess with this interpretation is you could just as easily see the humans as the 'good guys' doing 'necessary evil' to survive a harsh world and I think thats how a lot of people would see it. IRL colonialism wasn't necessary for survival itself it provided luxury and wealth to the colonists, but in avatar, from what I remember, basically the whole economy now depends on Pandora and the loss of the colony there would probably result in collapse of human civilization itself. In a way I think this sort of defends colonialism, not that Cameron meant to but by portraying it in such a way it could be seen as an existential conflict in which case its less immoral to side with the colonists. IRL of course this was not the case, belgians didnt cut off peoples hands as a matter of survival but to get more chocolate.
That doesn't actually hold water. Humans aren't strip mining Pandora in order to survive on Earth, they're using it to fuel the industry that's actively destroying it. There is no action being done to fix the ecology on Earth whatsoever. The RDA want Unobtanium because it's a room temperature super conductor, which is just pure candy for the insane energy consumption of Earth nations and corporations. The loss of a human presence on Pandora essentially puts the Earth nations/corporations in a spot where their capitalistic structure will implode on itself due to the unsustainable infrastructure they've created around Unobtanium. Any ending to the glut they've created on Earth returns them to a state in which communities and individuals regain purpose in society. It's a happy ending all around, unless you're a corporate pig.
They weren't mining unobtainium to ensure their planet's survival. As Giovanni Ribisi specifically says at one point "we're doing it because this rock is worth $20 million a kilo".
is Avatar like Dune - these stories seem very similar to me, though i havent read the Dune books, just so far the lynch film though i wonder if the books are different at all also i find it hard to believe that the capitalist drives pushing the pillage of Pandora would wait 6 years for someone else to use to the clone, - would they just be going in guns blazing from the start, they could be like the nazis put in charge of running Poland, being allowed free reign to carry out all their sadistic extra-judicial fantasies
So it sounds like the bois call for duel power building; I do it, more are doing it; meanwhile, wtching and depending on the system and national political news, followed by the remaining PNC (which include friends and family) can make you fall into the failing left. I feel pretty powerless right now, only up against the totality I guess. not the small things, but the problems are growing bigger...
The aliens do treat the main character like he is the most important individual than their own leader in their community Writters had to make him important even though In the movie world's reality the leader would lead the community not the white guy
They don't treat him as more important than everyone else. They assign him to a leadership role only after he had proven himself to be a worthy warrior.
Fun fact: APTN, Canada's Indigenous broadcasting service, literally plays Avatar on their national TV channel every single week. Why? Because Avatar is the most potent anti-colonial call to revolution in modern cinematic history. Seriously though, the movie's message of resistance and Indigenous sovereignty is incredibly powerful. I fucking love Avatar.
This is actually based. I never paid it much thought after watching it when I was a wee lad.
Avatar is inoffensive, but Battle of Algiers is the real film to show. It is gorgeous and brutal in comparison
ever heard of quantum blood, its kinda like that but with zombies and actual indigenous canadians
This is so based
@@IndieGinge idk if it’s inoffensive, they literally fight american marines in the movie compared to most hollywood blockbusters that’s insane
“You can’t be a cog in the machine and feel bad about it and that’s enough”
Also holy shit, new fav chapo episode
@@chumbucket6989 - The trajectory of their rabble-rousing dialogues is bound to get them in trouble eventually; I agree, best episode yet.
sounds like a quote from...the Sad Horse show
Got todd from bojack horseman flashbacks with that quote. Only now it's societal
Cool comment. Anyone want anything from burger king?
Listening to this right after seeing the second movie, and I feel like this nailed the whole direction of the franchise. James Cameron was like "okay, time to make a sequel that'll be about a blended human-Na'vi family accepting their roles as revolutionaries and community members instead of running away from collective action like 21st-century American society conditions us to do", and so much of it aligns with everything this episode brings up
your description of the friendzoned navi jumping into the back of the helicopt er scene made me cry like i was watchin it all over again in all its glory
I've recounted this part of the review/episode to my friends at least three times..."this completely actualised human being..."
"If you want a simple explanation of what's happening in America, watch Avatar again."
-Marianne Williamson
But was she wrong tho?
We stan
She was ahead of the curve
Thst woman is totally unhinged but, like a female Alex Jones, occasionally has some gems
Crystal Queen
Bill Hicks pretty much nailed it: We can take care of each other, and THEN explore the universe together. Forever.
But unfortunately he was murdered at the end of that bit
@@skeletorpfunk6342 Because he wanted Reagan to be shot.
Bill Hicks is funny in that reactionaries will point to him as a guy who says it like it is and doesn’t care about offending people and then his act is like “go read Chomsky”
If you're waiting for people to be nice, we'll never get there
@@williamchamberlain2263 Well, I only meant that we need to do way more in terms of kindness WHILE ALSO exploring the universe.
"We will see if his insanity can be cured."
Probably the best line in the whole damn movie. Perfectly captures how an outsider would view our military-industrial complex: An insane system that is spreading through our species.
It’s also kinda comforting... you’re not crazy for feeling miserable in this society. You’re not weird for thinking it all has to be torn down and rebuilt.
And we should take it seriously, I think.
It's not "insane", like just a poetic way of saying bad and dysfunctional; it's insane as in what we have collectively convinced ourselves is normal and the attitude and form of psychology and ideology which goes with it and posture towards the world and each other and everything, basically what we call late capitalist culture, is, to them, literally a form of clinical insanity.
“ITS ABOUT LOVE”
YEAH, YEAH IT IS YOURE RIGHT FELIX’S DAD!
Ok but they never got into the design of the mech.
listened to this episode again and thought the same thing lol
@@stabbinfresh If you look up the review by Mark Fisher ("Avatar as Ideological Symptom") he makes the point that the mechs look like they've come from the MYST games, seemingly anchored in a past view of a fantasy, not a future humanity.
Sincerity is the new irony.
DaDa!
Sadly.
(that's right voice) that's right
Irony gets tiring after too long
How ironic
This might be lame, but when this and the couple episodes before came out I was in a really shitty hopeless place. And those episodes really helped me get through it. It felt like the chapo before Bernie lost, the chapo that opened my eyes to politics and made me care about shit. Anyways thanks :)
This is one of the GOAT Chapo episodes.
Col Miles Quaritch, pinned under the wreckage of his mech: “You traitorous son of a bitch! You sided with these alien savages over your own species!”
Jake Sully: “Sorry, Colonel...but Blue Lives Matter.”
Hearing Felix, one of the most irony-poisoned, least-genuine-while-broadcasting people I've ever listened to earnestly say "I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding" is some fantastic advertising for this movie.
This episode is my comfort Chapo
Same
I keep listening to this episode, which makes sense, because I was the psycho that went in 6 times when it was in theatres. It always feels like opening a septic wound in hopes of healing it. Since hope is scarce rn I'll take it where I can find it
ruclips.net/video/m4c8avw6qo8/видео.html
Yeah I'm back again ...4th time here now
I just watched the theatrical re-release, and the Chapo guys are absolutely right about this movie. It’s a masterpiece.
You should watch the extended edition of the film. It has extra scenes like an abortive attempt at a school for the navi that eventually got shot up by the soldiers, and a scene at the beginning where jake is slumming it in a Blade Runner city on earth.
I like how they keep mispronouncing the Marvel movies. You know they do that on purpose.
yeah duh. Felix has been saying Thandos for over a year now
Revengers, Adventures, Adventurers...
GOATed episode holy shit
this is fucking true
no joke it kinda changed the way I think about being a citizen of the empire
Listening to this after watching the remaster in theaters, so great
Come back to this every few months, great episode
The directors cut of the movie is a must. It starts on earth and is even more anti imperialist imo.
Also on your guys point of having to die for the revolution, every one of our main human characters dies in someway in service to the Na'vi. Grace dies for real, Michelle Rodriguez dies for real, the scientists guys avatar dies meaning he will never really be one of the people, and can due to the rebellion he can also not go home, jakes human body dies.
"The left of this country wants beautiful defeat."
Just a heads up that I'm going to print that on a T-shirt.
This was a wild ride lmao, it's always such a cool feeling when you hear someone point out things you couldn't yourself back then... call me a loser but this was probably the second time i felt hopeful about the future after Bernie crushing Nevada lmao...
Its not your fault you live in hopeless times
Fuck I love Felix popping off at the end. We are them. Destroy the empire. Destroy the frontier. We are them.
This is the best Chapo episode
For my money, The Dark Crystal spoke to me even deeper. The splitting has caused the pain and destruction. The rejoining will heal the crystal.
Big theme in the 80s, i read a Jungian essay about how the Berlin Wall was a schizoid symptom. Reunification and globalism were seen as a great cohesive change for the better, but they were just breaking down protective barriers (nation, region, locality, family) between the consumer and the marketplace.
@@xyaeiounn Oh wow. That does make the idea of reunification seem a potential disaster as well. A new con based on an old model. Perhaps I can seek solace in the fact that everything is always breaking apart and uniting again in a different form. The difference gives me some solace.
@@landryprichard6778 Sure! For better or worse, i think the world is going to become one giant place. The usual suspects will twist that to serve them if they're allowed. With China, I'm concerned there's real links between the pragmatic and the totalitarian, the decency in the human spirit will always be an obstacle and a catalyst though.
@@xyaeiounn Amen, friend. I guess all true change does have to occur on the individual layer first...and only then can we make a collective difference. It's exhausting, but I guess it's because I'm still looking for the massive collective difference to occur in my lifetime. Selfish on my part. It's the loooooong game I should have trust in. ❤️
@@xyaeiounnhey do you have the name of the essay or the author? I’d love to check it out
Just rewatched in Imax 3D and you were 100% right about every word.
"The world is nearly all parcelled out, and what there is left of it is being divided up, conquered and colonised. To think of these stars that you see overhead at night, these vast worlds which we can never reach. I would annex the planets if I could; I often think of that. It makes me sad to see them so clear and yet so far."
- Cecil Rhodes, shithead
kind of sad tbh. to have a thirst so strong not even the universe itself could quench it
Watching the troops die in this movie was awesome.
Frankly my dear, I love you, lets remarry,..
Moleman: Didn't that movie use to have a war in it?
You’ve been warned.
For context, Avatar is likely an unacknowledged adaptation of the influential 1912 novel A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs.
Aww. Thanks guys. As a mother I definitely don't get the recognition I need to keep feeling like it's a worthwhile endeavor. But you n James Cameron have helped me on this day. It's a nice change from Bill Burr's jokes. Idky that still irks me but it does.
I knew there was a reason I liked this movie. I'm baby and, finally, I feel seen.
I can’t believe you guys are making me reevaluate avatar and it’s working
People should listen to Marianne Williamson’s interview with James Cameron from March ‘21. It should be titled “Felix was right”.
this was a good call
Never listened to Chapo before or watched Avatar, but this was very interesting
nice dude
Glad you enjoyed it
How did you end up here? Lol
It took me 2 listens to realize that Felix is not saying "Adventures" but "Avengers".
Are you guys talking about the revengers?
Jake Sully is the Avatar of us. That is why dudes got irritated with him. This wasn’t the droid they were looking for.
Thank you for validating my love for this movie
The spore tree is a collective unconscious
Mushrooms will clearly solve all of our problems make them legal
I had never considered Avatar to be a revolutionary text before. I might consider watching it now…
Dew it, and the new movie too, if you haven't.
I don't know if I buy the idea that Avatar never entered the cultural consciousness because it was somehow too subversive to be absorbed. The system can absorb anything and commodify it. For gods sake, George Lucas explicitly said that the Empire was inspired by the US and the Rebels were the Viet Cong
You can very easily do a reading of Avatar that IS that subversive, but either Cameron was playing with his cards very close to his chest, or it was partially unintentional. Despite how unsubtle it is, in many ways its anti-imperialist metaphor isn't obvious enough for the average American back in the aughts, and maybe not today. Not to be all "I'm so smart" but rather the idea of what imperialism is hasn't really permeated the American conciousness, and may not be at the forefront of James Cameron's mind either.
@@IndieGinge The concept of making the Pandora and the Na'vi so beautiful that they could be seen as the wholeness missing from the garish sprawl on Earth is lost as long as viewers don't identify with that weakness and the lack of a future.
@@romanticplacebo3693 Which is sad. Like they say "you live on Pandora".
As gorgeous as floating mountains are, do they actually have anything on Killamanjo, to just give one example?
Speaking of Lucas let me plug my favorite meme page showcasing how explicitly anti-imperial Lucas is ruclips.net/video/T9Bn-Mxz5SI/видео.html
Lucas has some good political instincts but he's not an auteur in the same way Cameron is. If the original trilogy had actually been made the way Lucas wanted to it probably would have never had anywhere near the level of cultural hegemony that it shares today. The studios had planned to make it into an assembly line toy factory pretty much from the beginning.
Lol, yall should look up the home tree destruction scene and read the comments underneath. . .
Thanks for reinvigorating my misanthropy!
The Navi need to wage war on Weyland Yutani next and face down xenomorphs. I want an Aliens Avatar crossover make it happen.
Xenomorphs from Navi facehuggers would be pretty amazing!
1000%
Aliens versus Predator versus Marines versus Na’vi
And it's also blade runner
That's a manichean conflict right there according to Aliens canon. Life that exists for itself vs. Life corrupted into an unstoppable weapon.
I did not watch avatar, and never will. This was a great review!
Excellent episode. Would love an episode on District 9, as well!
Just found out there's a real District 9 in slovakia..
Check out bald and broke on YT
Or Elysium
Will wrote a review of District 9 when he was a freelance writer for the Huffington Post in 2009 and it's actually quite good.
That's what brought me back to this episode for the Nth time. Was watching a retrospective of District 9, and the channel had another retrospective, this time about Avatar. They're similar in some ways, for sure. I'd love a Movie Mindset on District 9.
talk about snowpiercer
They already did on Frost/Christman. Matt and Amber like it despite it having the subtlety of a MOAB
@Ethan Shone I think it's this one. If I remember right they talk about what they like and don't so you understand their critical perspective. Snowpiercer commentary is very small part. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/frostchristman-episode-2-the-legend-of-curlys-gold&ved=2ahUKEwiInKCGpNDtAhXUtp4KHRLVCNwQjjgwAHoECAEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Q8Y_YmTHpl_C0u1jwpzgM
There's a bunch of people on a train and some have it better than others. This really says a lot about our society.
"we'll see if his insanity can be cured" 🔥✏📖🔥🔥
This ep is the absolute pinnacle of the irony/sincerity dialectic. I don’t know it was possible to be both 100% ironic and 100% sincere at the same time until listening to this.
I think you're projecting all of the irony. They openly talk about how blockbuster films over the past decade are pure irony poisoning and how refresher Avatar, which made nearly $3 billion, is completely sincere.
I just don’t know other blockbusters that made America the bad guy that hard.
They aren’t being ironic
@@FinneySP Escape from New York?
@@ince55ant Escape from New York made crime the bad guy, that's completely different
This was great. I actually felt exhilarated listening to this episode, and you were absolutely convincing. I'm ready to preach your gospel, and I too believe James Cameron will come back to save cinema and engineer us yet another cultural reset
yep, life affirming ep
Agree, this episode has had me doing a bit of impromptu soapbox preaching from time to time. I even got through to one guy.
Also happy to announce that accounting for inflation and the re-releases this past year that Avatar is once again the highest grossing film of all time.
must listen before the sequel
“He is not a white savior, he is a 12 foot tall Blue man”
Best episode on the best movie
best episode ever, of any podcast
Still love the reaper couch better. Good episode.
Holy Shit is Will wasted here Lol
Actually he's just high
We can't keep to convention forever... Something something beauty and death
Twisted Operator Sounds like he’s plugging his nose while he talks. It’s wild haha.
pandora go to the polls
I unironically loved this film when it came out. I had no idea that was an uncommon opinion.
Well it was the highest grossing film in history
It's only an uncommon among bitter nerds on the internet. Everyone I've ever talked to about the film in real life loved it.
The problem with the white savior narrative in the movie is that he becomes a leader. It would have been fine (and perhaps even a little subversive) if he had just become an advisor or a tactician, but he ends up in some kind of chieftain role which is a bit annoying.
He marries into it. That's better then purely ascending on his own in my book
I like to think he became the war leader for the fight against the corporate scum, then a more competant civil leader takes over afterward.
Yeah, I get the sense that he was in a leadership position for the one fight because of his familiarity with the humans. He only uses his status as the rider to unify the clams but is still subservient to the chieftain, and then separates from Toruk after the battle.
He was given a leadership role only after he had proven himself to be a capable warrior. That was the entire point.
He was kind of a glorified messenger. Bringing the good news to each Na'vi tribe - that there's a way to fight and win, and we know what it is. I see your point tho, it's not entirely wrong.
Excellent review and analysis. I need to watch this film again.
Never saw the movie first time around. Now you've got me intrigued.
I hate Amazon. So much.
Gotta search thrift stores for an Avatar DVD now I guess
You know this kind of why I like Far Cry 3 as a Story ( I know old game but the best Far Cry for a reason). Jason isn't a Savior, he doesn't help anyone who isn't in his circle of Family/Friends, you the player can kill your own allies and face no real consequences, and the typical native love interest is just as crazy as the bad guys and the game's good ending has you leave the island with your friends and go home. Also Jason is some dopey trust fund baby who can only fight because he's hoped up on all kinds of drugs allowing him to hunt and kill without hesitation or remorse. And yet people called that game a white savior narrative. If anything its a deconstruction of a white savior narrative. I know unrelated to the vid but that's immediately where my mind went when discussing Avatar as Subversive.
not to mention literally all the factions use the shit out of him and he only follows for 95% of the game
@@hegaliandialectics4289 Yeah but that's really the point isn't it. Jason has no business being anywhere near that island and wanting to get the hell out of there as fast as possible with your friends/family is the mind set that gets you the best ending. Actually wanting to stay and enjoy yourself gets you the bad ending.
This is the only movie I've seen where I've adored the themes this much while also thinking the script is dogshit. If this one movie had a good screenplay then we'd have achieved socialism by now, I'm seeing the sequel tomorrow.
Something Lucas, Cameron and many other auteurs understand better than marvel-dc producers is that because film is a visual medium if everything else is done correctly, dialogue is the least important; R2D2.
It's just really dorky to insist on good dialogue simply because real people don't sound like that unless they are high.
So Uncivilized being unabashedly in the tank for Lucas, especially the Prequels, helped bring me around on that 'wooden dialogue' stuff too. It's not just 'forgivable', it's a specific style thing and it's good. It's sincerity. It's a way out of the forest of Marvel Movie Whedonism Soybantz, as the Chapos would put it.
@@RoyalFusilierBingo. Nailed it.
52:25 According to the book i got my kid from 2010 the navi have an anatomy similar to humans in that they have genitals between their legs. Joining neural tendrils is just an added layer of intimacy. Navi girls don't have to fake it.
I pray the recent booing of Elon Musk presages something a little less non-French-Revolution-esque to come.
Did this ep get taken down or something? I don't see it on the patreon or the rss feed.
This episode rules
Thanks
The Bee scene in Wicker Man was never part of the theatrical cut of the movie btw, its from the unrated DVD edition
I don’t think the “Not the Bees” scene from Wicker Man was even in the theatrical release, I’m pretty sure that was always just a deleted scene.
The thing about Amazon editing the film is not true. The Chapo guys actually are mis-remembering. The original/theatrical version of the film has a shortened sex scene that does not show them connecting their braids, the full sex scene is included in one of the extended versions, and you can see it if you have the blu-ray set which includes 3 different cuts of the film. Or, if the braid connecting actually was shown in the original theatrical run and was subsequently edited out, it was done by Cameron himself and/or 20th Century Fox, because it now isn't shown in the theatrical edition on any platform, including blu-ray. Either way, it wasn't Amazon/Bezos that edited it, the was done by Cameron/Fox.
a really obvious thing they either missed or forgot to mention is that all of the Na'vi are played by Black / Native American people
i never know if theyre serious or doing a bit.
The real dialectic
@@connormehaffey1838 ikr. ilove them for it.
Its a bit. Until the revolution starts, that is.
This is definitely not a bit. Do you really think the Chapo guys would have the mental fortitude to spend an hour and half breaking down the minutiae of a movie about blue space cats for a bit?
I want Cameron to comment on this episode.
I want Cameron to go on chapo.
I want Cameron to direct '20.000 Leagues Beneath The Sea' starring the anti-imperialist techno-aquatic madman Captain Nemo.
They should do a terminator review
Trippy light tree thingies!!! 🤩🤩🤩
I don't want to revolution against the war machine distracted by the pretty colors!
-Average Avatar Enjoyer
You guys like movies way too much
I wish they would have pointed out that these peoples bones had the gold in inside of them which is hilarious
Like a baby
This is very interesting im enjoying this!
I literally only saw this movie because my friend was raving to me about how cool the 3D effects in it were. Not to take anything away from the film or its message, but I don't think we can overlook how many other simpletons like me just wanted to see the cool alien planet in the nifty 3D film.
come for the nifty aliens, stay for the communism
Who overlooked this? Did you pay attention to the words?
Will is at peak nasal here
Uh...how about his ex wife winning the Oscar against Avatar for Hurt Locker?
Who then did Zero Dark Thirty....
...
...
@@FirstnameLastname-kn5sw same director
I used to just think of avatar as grown up Ferngully, buuuuuuut I see what they’re saying, it’s very anti colonial and there isn’t enough of that in our culture
Can you please do an episode on the hurt locker? That movie is straight up bullshit propaganda and pathetically unrealistic
i love this fucking background
One thing to point out, the scene in wicker man with the bees is an alternate ending included in its dvd release. The version of wicker man on Amazon is most likely the theatrical release unless they fucked w/ it further
I don't think you can compare Avatar to the Avengers. Avengers is a milk toast movie aimed at everyone, while Avatar is aimed at older audiences. Not to say you can't sh*t on Dinsey the Boys do it all the time.
I liked Avatar a lot more when it was called "Dune".
Avatar was never called Dune, you’re thinking of the movie Dune.
@@countthemoon4956 also dune has the furthest thing from an anti-colonial ending. i guess you could read it as a cautionary tale though
@Righteous no it's not. Herbert was a huge environmentalist. He just thought feudalism was inevitable.
great ep. not a regular listener but this one really made me think a lot. I thought Avatar was cool when I first saw it but tbh I just saw it as dances with wolves. My one problem I guess with this interpretation is you could just as easily see the humans as the 'good guys' doing 'necessary evil' to survive a harsh world and I think thats how a lot of people would see it. IRL colonialism wasn't necessary for survival itself it provided luxury and wealth to the colonists, but in avatar, from what I remember, basically the whole economy now depends on Pandora and the loss of the colony there would probably result in collapse of human civilization itself. In a way I think this sort of defends colonialism, not that Cameron meant to but by portraying it in such a way it could be seen as an existential conflict in which case its less immoral to side with the colonists. IRL of course this was not the case, belgians didnt cut off peoples hands as a matter of survival but to get more chocolate.
That doesn't actually hold water. Humans aren't strip mining Pandora in order to survive on Earth, they're using it to fuel the industry that's actively destroying it. There is no action being done to fix the ecology on Earth whatsoever. The RDA want Unobtanium because it's a room temperature super conductor, which is just pure candy for the insane energy consumption of Earth nations and corporations. The loss of a human presence on Pandora essentially puts the Earth nations/corporations in a spot where their capitalistic structure will implode on itself due to the unsustainable infrastructure they've created around Unobtanium. Any ending to the glut they've created on Earth returns them to a state in which communities and individuals regain purpose in society. It's a happy ending all around, unless you're a corporate pig.
No
They weren't mining unobtainium to ensure their planet's survival. As Giovanni Ribisi specifically says at one point "we're doing it because this rock is worth $20 million a kilo".
is Avatar like Dune - these stories seem very similar to me, though i havent read the Dune books, just so far the lynch film though i wonder if the books are different at all
also i find it hard to believe that the capitalist drives pushing the pillage of Pandora would wait 6 years for someone else to use to the clone, - would they just be going in guns blazing from the start, they could be like the nazis put in charge of running Poland, being allowed free reign to carry out all their sadistic extra-judicial fantasies
omg yes, the books are fucking brilliant. Dune is 100% allegoric to the human race and its history.
They didn't wait 6 years for someone else to start using the clone - Jake was shipped out on the same ride his brother was intended to
District 9 too
Will reviewed it when he was a freelance writer for the Huffington Post in 2009. It's quite good you should check out.
So it sounds like the bois call for duel power building; I do it, more are doing it; meanwhile, wtching and depending on the system and national political news, followed by the remaining PNC (which include friends and family) can make you fall into the failing left. I feel pretty powerless right now, only up against the totality I guess. not the small things, but the problems are growing bigger...
51:15
I had tuned out for the most part but they deleted the hair-sex??? Noooo! The monsters! I did not sign up for this etc
The aliens do treat the main character like he is the most important individual than their own leader in their community
Writters had to make him important even though In the movie world's reality the leader would lead the community not the white guy
They don't treat him as more important than everyone else. They assign him to a leadership role only after he had proven himself to be a worthy warrior.
why does literally everyone on youtube use the same 80s neon palm tree miami tron retrowave aesthetic?
Why is hyperbole the most popular thing in existence?