+Leo Jerez Putting lands in front used to be okay. After a recent rule change, everyone on camera must play creatures in front. Luis likes forcing Marshal to rearrange his cards as a joke (they know each other and record a podcast together.)
man on that last game of shota vs mackl the judge misjudged really bad, the judge made a mistake both players paid with a warning and shota likely paid with the game that could have been(it is even likely to have been) a win for him, and the evidence is at 48:43 when shota(at least it looks a lot like he does) asks the judge if the archangel avacyn would transform with kalitas on board, and given the way the game proceeded and the reaction of the judge to the question, it looks like he said sure avacyn flips, and afterwards at 53:35 the SAME judge comes by and gives warning to the guys for triggering improperly and letting the other trigger improperly that's just unfortunate for the tournment, really big mistake in my opinion.
+ZakanaHachihaCBC yeah could have been a language barrier i know but the judge picked up avacyn and read so if he wasnt aware of how kalitas worked he should look it up too and he should have stoped the trigger expecially consisering that doubt on that matter has already been expressed,he took the card in hand and read and let it trigger improperly, i believe shota did what he could to do an informed decision and the judge did not ser the mistake in time and this is not an fnm where those things aren't a big deal this is bigger than a GP this is just shy of the world championship they should have been more prepared for people from other countries and this was in spain english isnt even the official language there that was in any way you cut it a mistake by the judge and both players paid for it
+Matheus BC well the only thing we can hear is 'Change', so it could be a misinterpretation. Shota could have been misheard as asking 'does Avacyn Flip?' as if asking if she is a DFC or something like that. If the Plant had been hit with Dead Weight though, this never would have happened.
48:46 - it looks like Yasooka is asking the bald judge what happens to Avacyn if something dies, while Kalidas is in play, and he confirms it will flip....Then like 10 minuts later, that same bald Judge comes and gives both players a warning, for a play he had already called ruling on?!?! Dafuq, srsly...
+martinrosschou Do you speak japanese? Are you 100% sure that's what shota was asking? You're randomly assuming shady business going on when you have no clue what shota actually said. Dafuq, srsly.....
+evoluti0n09 Check your attitude. He is not ata ll speaking Japanese at that point. It sounds like he asks "[if?] these die [unintelligeble change?" Valentin Mackl answers "change." and the judge says "yes."
+martinrosschou But it is not at all clear that he is asking about the interaction with Kalitas. I think the judge interpreted the question to be about whether tokens dying triggers Avacyn. He points to the tokens and then to Avacyn. He never points to Kalitas. I agree that the overall outcome is odd though.
This was very odd and always stuck with me. Finally spoke to a Japanese player a few months back and got this. Shota asked for a clarification on the Kalitas / Angel interaction. Valentin / Judge agreed that it would flip. Later same judge came back for the warnings - and it amazes me how Shota didn’t flip / get frustrated. Shota appealed to head judge to remove warning after the match. This judge said Shota was unclear when he asked - claiming that Shota asked if Angel flips if X dies (e.g. if the other creature was an Angel / what is the wording on Angel). Judge believes that Shota did not specifically asked for the interaction between Kalitas and Angel. Looks to me like he FU and didn’t want to look bad and came up w BS excuses.
At 7:50-9:00 why did dragon survive? it blocked the 2/1 then the Angel fliped doing 3 more points to all other creatures and players... thats 5 damage, right? what did i miss?
+Matt Murphey I see thanks.. I knew i was missing something in that.. Vals seems a bit dodgie with his hands and it drew my eye... OK thanks for that, be well
Hmm interesting, we all know you can't have two of the same legendary creature in play but it sort of seems like having a transformed Avacyn and one that's not at 5:00 is questionable.
+Ivan Carrazco The rule only applies when you have two legendary creatures with the same name. If you had two "Archangel Avacyn", then you'd have to choose one and sacrifice the rest. If you have an "Archangel Avacyn" and "Avacyn the Purifier" - they have different names. You can have a "Braids, Conjurer Adept" and a "Braids, Cabal Minion" on the battlefield at the same time, for example, because they do not share the same name. Kytheon is a creature that turns into a planeswalker with Type "gideon". Kytheon is a creature, Gideon is a planeswalker, so there's no rules conflict. Similarly, you can have Jace, Vryn's prodigy and Jace, Telepath Unbound. You can't, however, have a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and a Gideon, Battle-forged - they both have Planeswalker type Gideon.
+Ivan Carrazco What exception? I mean you can have Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Jace, Telepath Unbound in play at the same time with no issues, so it's not just because Kytheon randomly changes his name to Gideon. We used to see Dragonlord Silumgar alongside Silumgar, the Drifting Death as well.
Didn't avacyn flip because of plants dying as well? As avacyn's ability says non-angel but not non-token. Where as Kalitas exiles non-token creatures. Wasn't it correct for Avacyn to flip? Or has it been too long and I'm too tired that I am complicating two scenario's or I missed something
+Nolan Caldwell Ya, you missed something. 'Avacyn' flipped when Shota 'Dead Weight''d Mackl's 'Den Pro'. But with 'Kalitas' out, Den Pro was exiled, so 'Avacyn' should not have flipped.
+Nolan Caldwell Also, you can see in the corner of the screen that Mackl didn't even put the Den Pro in his graveyard. It isn't in the pile with Reflector Mage et al.
also, in game 3, I thought "Creatures get -4/-4 until the end of turn" included creatures entering the battlefield in that same turn. So the zombie should have died, correct? And does this mean if I play a card that says "creatures I control have life link" then play a creature, it doesn't gain life link?
+CoolTrainer Jojo Languish only affects creatures that are currently on the board so it was correct. Static abilities like "virulent plague" continuously affect the board. Similarly, if the lifelink granting card you play is a permanent, it will affect the board, take "True Conviction" as an example. However a spell like "Tenacity" only gives lifelink to creatures currently in play. Hope that answers your question
+evoluti0n09 How do you know? I've watched the interaction three times now and the camera cuts away to their faces when he indicates what Jace is targeting, and the announcers never mention it. He could have targeted the Silumgar.
+Lee Penrose He targeted the tracker to force the double block with Kalitas at 30:00. We know he didn't target silumgar because shota double blocked the advocate. We know he didn't target kalitas because shota gained 3 life from kalitas.
evoluti0n09 We don't necessarily know that. At the time of the block Tireless Tracker had 2 counters which makes it a 5/4. The Sylvan Advocate being blocked has 1 counter, which makes it a 5/6. So Shota would need to double block no matter what.
+Lee Penrose Oh yeah, that's true, tracker was only 5/4. Still, if mackl didn't shrink tracker, then shota probably would've double blocked with the tracker and the zombie token rather than with tracker and kalitas. It's possible that he shrunk the zombie token, but that doesn't seem likely given that the zombie wouldn't be able to attack through the other sylvan advocate anyway. So I still think it's most likely that the tracker was shrunk, but it did cut away at that moment, so we can't be sure.
Ojutai is a 5/4 so it wouldn't die to the 3 damage. With flipped Avacyn trigger on the stack Valentin played another Avacyn which gave all his creatures indestructible which meant cultivator survived
@@arran2264 No, Mackl had no cards in hand so Languish was definitely the best play. Would've eliminated 3 tokens (which are relevant due to Nissa's -2) as well as Archangel Avacyn. Advocate would have remained but one creature is easy to deal with with Shota's list (Ultimate Price, Anguished Unmaking, Ob Nixilis, Dragonlord Silumgar, Foul Tongue-Invocation).
I know I wouldn't be any better, but Gaby says "take care of", "a copy of" way too much, and also tries to say Shota in an accent. Kind of funny to listen to, but hearing "a copy of" 10 times in 30 seconds gets old.
PauperMages whilst I can't defend her use of phrases (however I can say I don't mind it too much so it is just a preference thing) her apparent accent is because she's part Colombian
Guys. If both of these 2 players for example, both played an identical deck. Doesn't it make it 50/50 who's going to win depending on nothing more than card draw, considering the commentators here are able to tell with 100% accuracy what the next card for each player is gonna be played over and over? Seems like there's no actual decisions being made. They seem to just be playing the patterns the pre planned out deck has been assigned based on the card draw. No one ever goes outside the ordinary and surprises the commentators or the other player by playing 8 completely different cards. It seems like each player, after a few cards knows the exact deck the other player has, and is calling each card he'll play in he's head before the other player drops it. Not very skil bases ?
+Antony Quigley When were the commentators able to tell with 100% accuracy which card would be played? This is almost never the case. Look at the game with Shota Yasooka. (Playing an unexpected archetype, by the way, blue-white-black dragon control when blue seems weak and no new dragons were released.) He paused to think even though he's one of the fastest players in the world, then played Dragonlord Ojutai. The commentators were rightly explaining that Languish is one of the most powerful cards in his deck, but he decided to play a creature that would die if he cast Languish. I'm a fanboy of the game, I admit. But I feel like there are a huge number of decisions made at every point in deck construction and play, far more decisions than can easily be seen if you don't know what to look for.
17:00 LSV see's Marshall is by the table, puts his lands in front :)
+Leo Jerez Putting lands in front used to be okay. After a recent rule change, everyone on camera must play creatures in front. Luis likes forcing Marshal to rearrange his cards as a joke (they know each other and record a podcast together.)
DScrubsRocks4Ever
man on that last game of shota vs mackl the judge misjudged really bad, the judge made a mistake both players paid with a warning and shota likely paid with the game that could have been(it is even likely to have been) a win for him, and the evidence is at 48:43 when shota(at least it looks a lot like he does) asks the judge if the archangel avacyn would transform with kalitas on board, and given the way the game proceeded and the reaction of the judge to the question, it looks like he said sure avacyn flips, and afterwards at 53:35 the SAME judge comes by and gives warning to the guys for triggering improperly and letting the other trigger improperly that's just unfortunate for the tournment, really big mistake in my opinion.
That question though could have also been a language barrier issue, or just a miscommunication between Mackl and Shota through accents.
Though really this could have been avoided if it was a many that had been Dead Weighted.
+ZakanaHachihaCBC yeah could have been a language barrier i know but the judge picked up avacyn and read so if he wasnt aware of how kalitas worked he should look it up too and he should have stoped the trigger expecially consisering that doubt on that matter has already been expressed,he took the card in hand and read and let it trigger improperly, i believe shota did what he could to do an informed decision and the judge did not ser the mistake in time and this is not an fnm where those things aren't a big deal this is bigger than a GP this is just shy of the world championship they should have been more prepared for people from other countries and this was in spain english isnt even the official language there that was in any way you cut it a mistake by the judge and both players paid for it
+Matheus BC well the only thing we can hear is 'Change', so it could be a misinterpretation. Shota could have been misheard as asking 'does Avacyn Flip?' as if asking if she is a DFC or something like that. If the Plant had been hit with Dead Weight though, this never would have happened.
I think it still would have been even either way
48:46 - it looks like Yasooka is asking the bald judge what happens to Avacyn if something dies, while Kalidas is in play, and he confirms it will flip....Then like 10 minuts later, that same bald Judge comes and gives both players a warning, for a play he had already called ruling on?!?! Dafuq, srsly...
+martinrosschou Do you speak japanese? Are you 100% sure that's what shota was asking? You're randomly assuming shady business going on when you have no clue what shota actually said. Dafuq, srsly.....
No I speak "Point your fingers at Kalitas then Avacyn and wait for Judge", and also I can hear Valentin confirms that it will change.
+evoluti0n09 Check your attitude. He is not ata ll speaking Japanese at that point. It sounds like he asks "[if?] these die [unintelligeble change?" Valentin Mackl answers "change." and the judge says "yes."
+martinrosschou But it is not at all clear that he is asking about the interaction with Kalitas. I think the judge interpreted the question to be about whether tokens dying triggers Avacyn. He points to the tokens and then to Avacyn. He never points to Kalitas. I agree that the overall outcome is odd though.
This was very odd and always stuck with me. Finally spoke to a Japanese player a few months back and got this. Shota asked for a clarification on the Kalitas / Angel interaction. Valentin / Judge agreed that it would flip. Later same judge came back for the warnings - and it amazes me how Shota didn’t flip / get frustrated. Shota appealed to head judge to remove warning after the match. This judge said Shota was unclear when he asked - claiming that Shota asked if Angel flips if X dies (e.g. if the other creature was an Angel / what is the wording on Angel). Judge believes that Shota did not specifically asked for the interaction between Kalitas and Angel. Looks to me like he FU and didn’t want to look bad and came up w BS excuses.
8:25 shouldn't ojitai die their from the flip and block?
@ 4m45s, why didn't the first flipped Avacyn kill the Deathcap Cultivator?
The second Avacyn came down in response to the 3-damage trigger, giving Deathcap Cultivator Indestructible.
Love how Gaby says Shota's name with a Japanese accent. LOL.
At 7:50-9:00 why did dragon survive? it blocked the 2/1 then the Angel fliped doing 3 more points to all other creatures and players... thats 5 damage, right? what did i miss?
+Rodney Smith Avacyn flips on the next upkeep, and by that time the 2 damage had worn off.
+Matt Murphey I see thanks.. I knew i was missing something in that.. Vals seems a bit dodgie with his hands and it drew my eye... OK thanks for that, be well
Hmm interesting, we all know you can't have two of the same legendary creature in play but it sort of seems like having a transformed Avacyn and one that's not at 5:00 is questionable.
Considering her name is different transformed and untransformed it doesn't go against the rules
+MathKasz even though the name Avacyn is on both sides? I thought that was why Kytheon is the exception to the rule..
+Ivan Carrazco well it is considered 2 different creatures so I guess? But I didn't know about the Kytheon rule?
+Ivan Carrazco The rule only applies when you have two legendary creatures with the same name. If you had two "Archangel Avacyn", then you'd have to choose one and sacrifice the rest. If you have an "Archangel Avacyn" and "Avacyn the Purifier" - they have different names. You can have a "Braids, Conjurer Adept" and a "Braids, Cabal Minion" on the battlefield at the same time, for example, because they do not share the same name.
Kytheon is a creature that turns into a planeswalker with Type "gideon". Kytheon is a creature, Gideon is a planeswalker, so there's no rules conflict. Similarly, you can have Jace, Vryn's prodigy and Jace, Telepath Unbound. You can't, however, have a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and a Gideon, Battle-forged - they both have Planeswalker type Gideon.
+Ivan Carrazco What exception? I mean you can have Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Jace, Telepath Unbound in play at the same time with no issues, so it's not just because Kytheon randomly changes his name to Gideon. We used to see Dragonlord Silumgar alongside Silumgar, the Drifting Death as well.
Didn't avacyn flip because of plants dying as well? As avacyn's ability says non-angel but not non-token. Where as Kalitas exiles non-token creatures. Wasn't it correct for Avacyn to flip? Or has it been too long and I'm too tired that I am complicating two scenario's or I missed something
+Nolan Caldwell Ya, you missed something. 'Avacyn' flipped when Shota 'Dead Weight''d Mackl's 'Den Pro'. But with 'Kalitas' out, Den Pro was exiled, so 'Avacyn' should not have flipped.
+Nolan Caldwell And that was HUGE mistake that wasn't caught by the judges or the players. It totally changed the rest of the game in a huge way.
+Nolan Caldwell Also, you can see in the corner of the screen that Mackl didn't even put the Den Pro in his graveyard. It isn't in the pile with Reflector Mage et al.
+Nolan Caldwell So many avacyn misplays this match
steven Claessen yeah that's so true. hopefully everyone knows how it works by now lol
Why didn't Yasooka play the Languish in G1? I feel like whipimg the field could help you come back. is there something I wasn't seeing?
also, in game 3, I thought "Creatures get -4/-4 until the end of turn" included creatures entering the battlefield in that same turn. So the zombie should have died, correct? And does this mean if I play a card that says "creatures I control have life link" then play a creature, it doesn't gain life link?
+CoolTrainer Jojo Languish only affects creatures that are currently on the board so it was correct. Static abilities like "virulent plague" continuously affect the board. Similarly, if the lifelink granting card you play is a permanent, it will affect the board, take "True Conviction" as an example. However a spell like "Tenacity" only gives lifelink to creatures currently in play. Hope that answers your question
shota got fucked with that missed trigger and he got a warning too. Didn't seem fair
That girl commentary is so sweet, i hope she do more.
It was terrible. See my comment above.
Valentin Mackl seemed very nervous in this match.
id be nervous too
jqxok he’s up against one of the consistently best players in the world. There’s good reason to be
31:10 Mackl's jace shouldn't have died - tracker was shrunk by jace (4/5).
+evoluti0n09 How do you know? I've watched the interaction three times now and the camera cuts away to their faces when he indicates what Jace is targeting, and the announcers never mention it. He could have targeted the Silumgar.
+Lee Penrose He targeted the tracker to force the double block with Kalitas at 30:00. We know he didn't target silumgar because shota double blocked the advocate. We know he didn't target kalitas because shota gained 3 life from kalitas.
evoluti0n09 We don't necessarily know that. At the time of the block Tireless Tracker had 2 counters which makes it a 5/4. The Sylvan Advocate being blocked has 1 counter, which makes it a 5/6. So Shota would need to double block no matter what.
+Lee Penrose Oh yeah, that's true, tracker was only 5/4. Still, if mackl didn't shrink tracker, then shota probably would've double blocked with the tracker and the zombie token rather than with tracker and kalitas. It's possible that he shrunk the zombie token, but that doesn't seem likely given that the zombie wouldn't be able to attack through the other sylvan advocate anyway. So I still think it's most likely that the tracker was shrunk, but it did cut away at that moment, so we can't be sure.
I'm so jealous of Gaby's Farrah Fawcett hair.
When the first Avacyn flipped, shouldn’t the Ojutai and cultivator have both died from the 3 damage
Ojutai is a 5/4 so it wouldn't die to the 3 damage. With flipped Avacyn trigger on the stack Valentin played another Avacyn which gave all his creatures indestructible which meant cultivator survived
@@Miracle-lg7fr Thanks so much
43:00 Should play Languish
The only card of relevance he'd remove is Avacyn. Not really worth it.
I agree that's what i thought too. He probably just figured he'd save it.
Wouldn’t have killed advocate and could have a dromoka’s command in hand that would save avacyn and cause it to flip
Languish was way too risky there
@@arran2264 No, Mackl had no cards in hand so Languish was definitely the best play. Would've eliminated 3 tokens (which are relevant due to Nissa's -2) as well as Archangel Avacyn.
Advocate would have remained but one creature is easy to deal with with Shota's list (Ultimate Price, Anguished Unmaking, Ob Nixilis, Dragonlord Silumgar, Foul Tongue-Invocation).
how was that call on avacyn with her not ment to be flipping but just let him flip her lol
13:45 the werewolf should have flipped... but i guess the game was already over..
This whole ruling issue could have been avoided if Shota had Dead Weighted a Plant and not the Den Pro.
I really wanna make that dragon list but I dont want to buy a playset of Jace. At that point I could just play Bantcoco
+Caleb Thompson i love to play 4 of thing in ice instead jace >_
+Board STOMP! does that really work? Thinking of building esper dragons too but putting more removals instead of Jace
+MickyPlays it prob won't run as well. But is a decent alternative if u don't want to drop the car payment
I hate seeing foils on camera...the glare is real.
That 250$ basic island damn!
+Moe Marino
Yeah, pretty ridiculous those guru lands or whatever they're called.
+Redington931 yeah, guru lands. They look great and they're probably the reason other basic lands are still so boring.
Can Gaby stop saying 'take care of' every time anything is destroyed or exiled XD
R&D didn't know Tireless Tracker would be powerful?? LOL
Gaby says copy a lot but pretty goo comments
Good
Mackl points out guru
Gaby Spartz is really bad at this.
+Acid1789 Its her first time
+James T 2nd, she did PT OGW
+James T or was it GP Detroit?
I know I wouldn't be any better, but Gaby says "take care of", "a copy of" way too much, and also tries to say Shota in an accent. Kind of funny to listen to, but hearing "a copy of" 10 times in 30 seconds gets old.
PauperMages whilst I can't defend her use of phrases (however I can say I don't mind it too much so it is just a preference thing) her apparent accent is because she's part Colombian
Guys. If both of these 2 players for example, both played an identical deck. Doesn't it make it 50/50 who's going to win depending on nothing more than card draw, considering the commentators here are able to tell with 100% accuracy what the next card for each player is gonna be played over and over? Seems like there's no actual decisions being made. They seem to just be playing the patterns the pre planned out deck has been assigned based on the card draw. No one ever goes outside the ordinary and surprises the commentators or the other player by playing 8 completely different cards. It seems like each player, after a few cards knows the exact deck the other player has, and is calling each card he'll play in he's head before the other player drops it. Not very skil bases ?
+Antony Quigley When were the commentators able to tell with 100% accuracy which card would be played? This is almost never the case.
Look at the game with Shota Yasooka. (Playing an unexpected archetype, by the way, blue-white-black dragon control when blue seems weak and no new dragons were released.) He paused to think even though he's one of the fastest players in the world, then played Dragonlord Ojutai. The commentators were rightly explaining that Languish is one of the most powerful cards in his deck, but he decided to play a creature that would die if he cast Languish.
I'm a fanboy of the game, I admit. But I feel like there are a huge number of decisions made at every point in deck construction and play, far more decisions than can easily be seen if you don't know what to look for.
I can't be the only one who finds Gaby's voice annoying right?
Looks like you're alone (at least from the RUclips viewership)
+Pax Man better than buehler. he makes some srsly random comments. dammit buehler stay on topic!!
FIRST!
+Denex Bast bruh stop it