Nice video and good job, I just got back from my first trip a week ago. It’s big water and the GoPro flattens it out. You can’t appreciate how big it is w/o rowing it. Several rapids have flipping potential, glad you were able to recover and have a good line at Lava. SYOTR!
Some commenters are saying you shoulda split the horns, but at water that low I'm not sure you can. I've heard its a not great idea below ~8000 cfs. The right to left run in The Horns is easily the hardest line in the canyon at low water in my opinion.
Yeah man in hindsight I’d just split them and skip the scout. The R->L move is there I just didn’t pull through. Talking with other groups there was a lot of carnage there. Newer videos show a lot of people splitting them at that 5-9k level and being fine. Live and learn. I learned my lesson and when Bedrock came…I PULLED!
Insta 360. Mounted with a clamp mount I got from Amazon. Worked great, would bring loctite with you though because the screw that makes the clamp work slipped a bit. I also had a metal shell case I got on Amazon so I could tether the camera back to the boat. Which was critical in this instance since it tweaked the selfie stick a bit. Have fun! www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BGBQJZX7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Nice video. I think it's funny you randomly put in 234. Having flipped in Killer Fang I found your line to be very unintuitive and interesting. I'm going to contemplated that line next time I'm there.
Cool video, nice and to the point for each rapid! That rotation into the rock at the end of Horn was so fast! If it was like 45 degrees less you might have just stern bounced. Are you sure the first one was House though? I didn't see any of the key features of that rapid. Like, the house sized rock near the end. Nor the ledge drop in the middle left. Nor the scouting perch at the start. Maybe it just looked way different than when we did it.
Yeah it happened fast. Should have split the horns as that wasn't a great result. Yeah that is house rock, we scouted from right so that's probably what makes it seem different.
I'm not a pro, but it's primarily based around the fact that you get most propulsion power in the rearward trajectory when rowing. Pulling is more powerful than pushing in rowing. Back muscles are bigger for sustained effort. Also try to keep in mind, with rowing you're either slowing down relative to current under you or speeding over it. So a sideways position is a "ferry" position for enabling lateral movement usually in backwards direction for rowing. If you expect to need to adjust to the left, you'll come in facing right. Backwards in reference to current (downstream usually) allows to best increase downstream velocity. You are then moving faster than current. This is important for speed over standing waves or holes. Powering over suction dynamics. For paddlers it's when they dig in. A Forward position in rowing, you can be ready to turn left or right as needed, deal head on with standing waves to prevent side flip and the best view to judge maneuvers. It's a neutral default position setup. You don't ever want to fall in sideways into a strong hole or standing wave, because you present a large surface area for the rearward forces and lose momentum over the obstacle. So while it seems that they are just entering the rapids in a certain position and being passive.. there is a navigation path they try to achieve and change angles to both change lateral position to hit the desired paths, as well as facing the challenges head on for stability.
Just my opinion but going into these rapids backwards rowing as fast as you can is setting you up for failure. Read the water. You can’t read it with your back to it. All of us will flip, but you should learn from every rapid.
Don't sell yourself short. You did great in a bunch of tough ones. Certainly Bedrock, Upset, Lava, and others. Just split the horns next time at Horn Creek and you'll be golden!
I think your title was too hard on yourself and your runs. Overall most of your runs were pretty good. You had the right concepts most of the time. It takes the learning of several trips to be able to keep your raft in the position you want. The currents are so complex and the so wide at the rapids entryways that it can be quite challenging to judge your trajectory. I’ve done 63 rowing trips through the Canyon (both as a commercial guide and on private trips) and appreciate the challenges of the rapids there. I’ve a suggestion born of my experience that you may find helpful if you have future trips there. Being very aware of your momentum and the direction of your momentum and aligning your momentum with the pathway you want to take is key to Grand Canyon rapids. For example, I’ve missed many a beautiful set of waves in long rapids with sweet wave trains with mild bends to them because of the momentum I had generated in positioning the raft exactly where I wanted. Failing to neutralize that directional momentum meant that although I hit the first 3-6 waves, my I’ll-aligned momentum carried me across and out of the center of the long train and off to the side. If you neutralize your positional momentum when you’re centered in the line you want and lock you position in there, then you can stay centered use the energy of the laterals to adjust your position as the wave train bends. Of course sustained directional momentum is key to a number of the big rapids there like House Rock, Hance, Bedrock, Duebendorf, and Upset for example. It looked to me like your entry into Hance was fouled simply by the difficulty in knowing your position in the currents relative to your desired path, because of their breadth and complexity. Even after scouting, the view on the river is vastly different than from shore as I’m sure you know. Paying deep attention to the subtleties of the currents well above and following them all the way to your entry point could help you with recognizing your position and staying oriented and keeping aligned in the path that you want. It looked to me like you’ve good skills and understanding overall and just need a little more time on the river there. I hope that you may find these ideas helpful and forgive the unsolicited advice.
Thank you for taking the time to write from your breadth of experience. I agree with everything you said (now) and appreciate your kind words. Your comment on Hance is spot on. Something that was rather unique to me there were all the horizon lines, and the lack of visible markings at water level. I had to learn to read other landmarks, like teacup boils etc and reference my position in relation to them when on the water. Was very tricky but over time I believe I improved and learned skills that I can continue to develop and become more competent. Wish I could share a fire and hear some of what must 1,000s of stories you must have been a part of so far in your career! Thanks again for taking the time to comment and give some learned perspective.
You’re welcome. I noticed your improvement as the trip went on. You’re absolutely right about the horizon lines and learning to read and notice those often ignored movements of current and use them as orientation. I’ll just reiterate the importance of the concept of momentum. It took me years to refine the understanding of it. It really is the key to refined runs in the Canyon and worthy of contemplation amidst your next adventure there. I’m sure you’d be fun to share stories with too. Best of luck and joy in your future boating.
Nice job - don’t be too hard on yourself! You’ll ace Horn next time I’m sure. You won back your honor with that move at bedrock. Hitting the eddy RR below bedrock is a move that not many can make (and I reckon you clearly could’ve made it if’n you’d wanted) - trick is to row like a mad bastard and don’t relax for a moment until you’re past the rock itself. Job done. Plus you nailed the entry at Lava, so you my friend get a definite passing grade! First time on the Grand?
Horn: "you ready?" "not really!" proceeds to flip. haha, awesome.
Nice video and good job, I just got back from my first trip a week ago. It’s big water and the GoPro flattens it out. You can’t appreciate how big it is w/o rowing it. Several rapids have flipping potential, glad you were able to recover and have a good line at Lava. SYOTR!
I just did my 3rd trip! This past one was the end of September 2023. This is fantastic footage!! Thanks for sharing!! ❤😊
Right on! Was my first and I’ll be going back!
Some commenters are saying you shoulda split the horns, but at water that low I'm not sure you can. I've heard its a not great idea below ~8000 cfs. The right to left run in The Horns is easily the hardest line in the canyon at low water in my opinion.
Yeah man in hindsight I’d just split them and skip the scout. The R->L move is there I just didn’t pull through. Talking with other groups there was a lot of carnage there. Newer videos show a lot of people splitting them at that 5-9k level and being fine. Live and learn. I learned my lesson and when Bedrock came…I PULLED!
Wouldn't the rating also be based on the most difficult runnable water level?
Such a beaautiful run at Bedrock!
you actually set horn up perfect just missed getting behind that horn closer and sooner. Sh*t happens fast out there, good rowing!
Thank you for sharing your trip. I can see the shadow in a few shots… Insta360 or another? Curious about your mount system too? Neat perspective
Insta 360. Mounted with a clamp mount I got from Amazon. Worked great, would bring loctite with you though because the screw that makes the clamp work slipped a bit. I also had a metal shell case I got on Amazon so I could tether the camera back to the boat. Which was critical in this instance since it tweaked the selfie stick a bit. Have fun! www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BGBQJZX7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
@@nateotaylor Btw thank you!! Much appreciated. Sorry for the delayed reply.
Good footage, nice editing
Nice video. I think it's funny you randomly put in 234. Having flipped in Killer Fang I found your line to be very unintuitive and interesting. I'm going to contemplated that line next time I'm there.
Cool video, nice and to the point for each rapid! That rotation into the rock at the end of Horn was so fast! If it was like 45 degrees less you might have just stern bounced.
Are you sure the first one was House though? I didn't see any of the key features of that rapid. Like, the house sized rock near the end. Nor the ledge drop in the middle left. Nor the scouting perch at the start. Maybe it just looked way different than when we did it.
Yeah it happened fast. Should have split the horns as that wasn't a great result. Yeah that is house rock, we scouted from right so that's probably what makes it seem different.
I'm so curious (as a non-rafter) - why do you enter some rapids backwards, or sideways, instead of nose first?
I'm not a pro, but it's primarily based around the fact that you get most propulsion power in the rearward trajectory when rowing. Pulling is more powerful than pushing in rowing. Back muscles are bigger for sustained effort. Also try to keep in mind, with rowing you're either slowing down relative to current under you or speeding over it.
So a sideways position is a "ferry" position for enabling lateral movement usually in backwards direction for rowing. If you expect to need to adjust to the left, you'll come in facing right. Backwards in reference to current (downstream usually) allows to best increase downstream velocity. You are then moving faster than current. This is important for speed over standing waves or holes. Powering over suction dynamics. For paddlers it's when they dig in.
A Forward position in rowing, you can be ready to turn left or right as needed, deal head on with standing waves to prevent side flip and the best view to judge maneuvers. It's a neutral default position setup. You don't ever want to fall in sideways into a strong hole or standing wave, because you present a large surface area for the rearward forces and lose momentum over the obstacle.
So while it seems that they are just entering the rapids in a certain position and being passive.. there is a navigation path they try to achieve and change angles to both change lateral position to hit the desired paths, as well as facing the challenges head on for stability.
Just my opinion but going into these rapids backwards rowing as fast as you can is setting you up for failure. Read the water. You can’t read it with your back to it. All of us will flip, but you should learn from every rapid.
Don't sell yourself short. You did great in a bunch of tough ones. Certainly Bedrock, Upset, Lava, and others. Just split the horns next time at Horn Creek and you'll be golden!
Thanks! Live and learn and I certainly learned some lessons the hard way, and others the river gods were more merciful. Be better next go around
How was the swim?
Harmless. I popped up next to the boat and climbed on top in the pool 50yds downstream.
Don’t see your rider up front much after Horn! Lol! Cool vid.
Hahaha she was smart and hiked out at Phantom!
I think your title was too hard on yourself and your runs. Overall most of your runs were pretty good. You had the right concepts most of the time. It takes the learning of several trips to be able to keep your raft in the position you want. The currents are so complex and the so wide at the rapids entryways that it can be quite challenging to judge your trajectory. I’ve done 63 rowing trips through the Canyon (both as a commercial guide and on private trips) and appreciate the challenges of the rapids there. I’ve a suggestion born of my experience that you may find helpful if you have future trips there. Being very aware of your momentum and the direction of your momentum and aligning your momentum with the pathway you want to take is key to Grand Canyon rapids. For example, I’ve missed many a beautiful set of waves in long rapids with sweet wave trains with mild bends to them because of the momentum I had generated in positioning the raft exactly where I wanted. Failing to neutralize that directional momentum meant that although I hit the first 3-6 waves, my I’ll-aligned momentum carried me across and out of the center of the long train and off to the side. If you neutralize your positional momentum when you’re centered in the line you want and lock you position in there, then you can stay centered use the energy of the laterals to adjust your position as the wave train bends. Of course sustained directional momentum is key to a number of the big rapids there like House Rock, Hance, Bedrock, Duebendorf, and Upset for example. It looked to me like your entry into Hance was fouled simply by the difficulty in knowing your position in the currents relative to your desired path, because of their breadth and complexity. Even after scouting, the view on the river is vastly different than from shore as I’m sure you know. Paying deep attention to the subtleties of the currents well above and following them all the way to your entry point could help you with recognizing your position and staying oriented and keeping aligned in the path that you want. It looked to me like you’ve good skills and understanding overall and just need a little more time on the river there. I hope that you may find these ideas helpful and forgive the unsolicited advice.
Thank you for taking the time to write from your breadth of experience. I agree with everything you said (now) and appreciate your kind words. Your comment on Hance is spot on. Something that was rather unique to me there were all the horizon lines, and the lack of visible markings at water level. I had to learn to read other landmarks, like teacup boils etc and reference my position in relation to them when on the water. Was very tricky but over time I believe I improved and learned skills that I can continue to develop and become more competent. Wish I could share a fire and hear some of what must 1,000s of stories you must have been a part of so far in your career! Thanks again for taking the time to comment and give some learned perspective.
You’re welcome. I noticed your improvement as the trip went on. You’re absolutely right about the horizon lines and learning to read and notice those often ignored movements of current and use them as orientation. I’ll just reiterate the importance of the concept of momentum. It took me years to refine the understanding of it. It really is the key to refined runs in the Canyon and worthy of contemplation amidst your next adventure there.
I’m sure you’d be fun to share stories with too.
Best of luck and joy in your future boating.
Nice job - don’t be too hard on yourself! You’ll ace Horn next time I’m sure.
You won back your honor with that move at bedrock. Hitting the eddy RR below bedrock is a move that not many can make (and I reckon you clearly could’ve made it if’n you’d wanted) - trick is to row like a mad bastard and don’t relax for a moment until you’re past the rock itself. Job done.
Plus you nailed the entry at Lava, so you my friend get a definite passing grade! First time on the Grand?
First time! Learned a lot, some of it the hard way!
you gotta split the horns at horn creek
No doubt. But hey, I’ll never do it that way again!
Handsome fella running point in Sockdolager.
What time of year was this?
October. 5-9k
good job
A few bad lines, but it shows how forgiving the river can be....until its not :)
Clean
aced lava..nice. you flew thru there.
11:25 WOOO!
I'm confused by Class 8 and such. Was that sarcasm or do they rate the Grand Canyon on a different scale? As a kayaker it's a class 5.
GC scale is 1-10. Everywhere else is 1-5 so you’re not crazy!
No helmet? U think this is the 80s, put ur damn helmet on on the river!!!
i do not know how you class but where i am from it look to be about hard 3 all look so ez kid shit