@TumorWarrior67 and @AngrywolverineMTB are right. No entrances/exits and no name dropping. I get why you want to though because we’ve all been there, me included. But over the years, you see the cycle of trails getting too hot and then getting policed/destroyed repeat over and over like clockwork. It sucks, but it’s the game we play. The whole no name dropping thing isn’t so much of a rule as it is an understanding that keeping a low profile out here is how we have the best chance at keeping these trails alive. I don’t blame you at all for wanting to share that you’re able to ride some of the gnarliest trails around and stoke people out to do the same, and name dropping is naturally a part of that process. At the end of the day, you posting the name of these trails won’t do anything for our access to these trails, but everyone here is just trying to give you a reminder that staying low key is in everyone’s best interest. I’m always open to discussion though because it’s important to me to understand current perspectives and feelings towards the area.
At least you seem to be more civil than @tumor. I agree and been in agreement from the beginning that we want our trails to remain "secret" so to speak. Not showing entries is obvious. Not showing exit, eh, that depends if it's obvious or not, but obviously not pointing it out. There is no hard rule about it, just as you say, thus nobody has the right to come on like @tumor and declare it so. Absolutely silly, and to continue on about it, wheeew! As for no name dropping? Ya, to each their own. Pretty much every secret trail you, I or most other routine riders are aware of are still there, still functional, still "secret". Even with all the name dropping, all the tons of videos, etc. So the notion of no name dropping does nothing, and really doesn't expose the trail anymore than somebody simply coming across it. Any rider that's pretty confident in their riding skills are the ones that are seeking out these trails. And those riders will pretty much be the ones that will also respect them and keep it's (the trails) anonymity. Ain't no joe blow who's fresh off a beach cruiser gonna get out searching for such trails. Let's be realistic. And Rangers? As I mentioned earlier, it takes alot to make them move in the direction to shut down a trail. Just as you say, "at the end of the day, you posting the name of these trails won’t do anything for our access", rings absolute truth. I just don't get why some folks are so hung up over it. Bong Drop has probably the most vids on yt than any, including entry, exit, sessioning, etc. Yet where's the fuss? O, and it's still around.... been around for years and probably someday will become an official Aliso trail. How many videos do you see of Telonics, including entry and exit. And yes, that's still an illegal trail. We just don't call it a "secret" trail, the magic word. How about Silver Surfur, entries, exit. We all know where that is, the rangers know where that is. Let's not fool ourselves in believing it's some secret. Poopchute, ya, the rangers know that one too. Lastly, no offense, but I don't need reminders. I have respectifully kept a "low profile" on any "secret" trail I've done. I just don't prescribe to the silly notion of no name dropping. Regardless, thanks for your feedback :)
@@TumorWarrior67 listen "bud", if there is any ignorance, it's coming from you and you alone. I'm gonna lay this out as carefuly as I can and after that, I'm done. If you want to talk further we can have a discussion by other means. 1. Apparently you're not fully understanding and have not read my words which I've repeated a number of times. All you keep running your mouth about is name dropping. Stop pounding a dead horse bro, relax, breath. There's more to life than dropped names. AGAIN, from the beginning, I agree and respect maintaining the "secrecy" of such trails. What I DO NOT agree with is "not" name dropping. Pure and simple, repeated now I don't know how many times. 2. I dont' give a rat's rear end if I'm not "local", but if some "local" unspoken rule is to ride only a trek session on a 29'r on xyz trail, then screw that, I ain't listening. The whole "no name dropping" notion is equivelant to that, but you don't somehow understand that view and refuse that view. I gaurantee you that I've been riding aliso and laguna areas faaaar longer than you have. I'm a freakin' 47 year old rider bro and I have no time for petty exchanges. @angrywoverine at least said his mind and was done. WTF are you doing? You remind me of a child that just has to get the last word in.... especially ending with that silly "Ignorance at it's finest". Did you notice I didn't respond? I got thick skin man, I let you have that last petty word. You can own it. 3. Why the convo continued? Because you kept at it man! I dunno how many times I attempted to finish off the discussion with "Ride on", "thanks for watching...", "... enjoy our riding sessions", etc. Go re-read my freakin' comments for goodness gracious. 4. I have indeed "kept a low profile" in terms of certain expectations. And yes, I have posted a handful of "secret" trails and will do more when I can. I'll repeat this again, I have respected unspoken rules time after time and will continue to do so EXCEPT the name dropping crap. I'm done on this topic bro, stopping banging a broken drum. Now that I've answered your questions, most likely not to your satsifaction, this is squashed. Ping me on my instagram if you want to discuss further.
@@MTBr-of-SoCal Respectfully, plastering the trail name all over a clickbait-style RUclips thumbnail is the opposite of “low profile”. Just because there’s like 10 other people that do it, doesn’t mean you should. It has nothing to do with keeping these trails secret or hidden from rangers. That ship sailed decades ago. In fact, I have personally looked over a map, with a ranger, of every illegal trail to have ever existed in laguna in their HQ that they had made while we talked about why the issue was complicated. And that was back in 2014. You can see every one of these trails in satellite images. Doesn’t matter. What does matter is being low key. Why would you want to draw attention to the fact that you break the law? You are publicly and permanently announcing to the world that you break the law. That’s the kind of stuff that forces rangers to do their job. How do I know? Because I’ve talked to rangers and gone to city council meetings. They can and will act due to things like RUclips videos. Does the Tex Haines incident ring any bells? It’s like posting videos of you doing 115mph on the 5 and then being surprised when there’s more cops on the road doing speed traps or even looking for you specifically. We’ve given you plenty of reasons not to name drop and video entrances/exits. Why so adamant about posting them? To get views? Do you really need that validation? Post all you want about Telonics, it’s basically legal, but everything else should be discrete. Also, I know it seems like we’re picking on you specifically, but I just happened to come across your vid.
@iainmorgan1598 you quoted: "It has nothing to do with keeping these trails secret or hidden from rangers." So there we have it. It has nothing to do with keeping trails secret. Wow! In any event, I'm commenting to at least owe you some answers to your question... - don't need validation. - adamant about posting, that's what I do, post vids on my rides, nothing more. Not sure why people like you are so adamant about forcing your wills and beliefs. - You can't have it both ways bro. An illegal trails is an illegal trail. There's no "but..." in regards to Telonics or similar. - No, you haven't given any good reason. You negated your whole theory of secret trails and also admitted the rangers are plenty aware (which I pointed out much earlier). It really boils down to your idea of keeping a trail low-key vs my idea of low-key. So there you have it, a difference of opinion. - Breaking the law comment? OMG that just came out from left field. LOL, please stop reaching there. Anyhow, as I mentioned to @tumor, topic is done here, way overdue. So if you wish to chat further, hit me up on my instagram and I'll be glad to discuss more. It's been great having this discussion, but I'll be locking down the comments as it's getting quite long and overdue. Again, hit me up on instagram if you wish to discuss further.
Sorry for not being part of your elitist group, but you can't expect everyone to prescribe to your belief. As long as riders are being respectful, not revealing details in how to get there, not showing obvious entries, then all's good. This whole notion of "no name dropping" is silly. In fact, it reveals less of trails than some youtuber showing their out-of-town buddies or riding group off menu trails, who then tells their buddies of those trails, who then... you get the picture. No harm, no foul :)
@@MTBr-of-SoCal first off, I’m not an elitist, nor am I part of an elitist group, there’s already enuff scrutiny on the trails, I’m just sayin in the future don’t mention the trail names, I know you’re not the first or last person to mention names of trails it’s just about keep in the rangers from destroying them
@AngrywolverineMTB rangers are far smarter than we give them credit for. I'm willing to bet you a beer or two that they know all of such trails and probably more than we routine riders know of ourselves. They don't drive around or hike around without discovering them. It's their freakin' job lol. They also don't shut them down unless they have very good reasons to do so, and more times than not, it's due to an over zealous Karin resident or the trail encroaches on a divided parcel. Telonics to this day is still an unsanctioned trail, name dropped by every Tom, Dick & Harry but still exists and rangers don't give a crap. Lizard trail over on Laguna side was illegally built by MTB'rs but over time, circa 1993, became a sanctioned trail.
@@TumorWarrior67 do you own the land the trail is on? Do you have the rights to that trail? If so, then my full apologies. Otherwise, you have no standing in declaring "no name dropping", "no showing entries", "no showing exits". Such statements are the biggest forms of elitism that exists in the mtb community, and to do it blatantly on somebody else's vid, whom you don't even know! And if calling you and other guy out on it makes you feel uncomfortable, perhaps you should think twice. As mentioned, I get and respect the notion of not showing exactly how to get to these trails and entries but that's it. #1 is understandable to a degree. #2 is an absolute silly gate-keeping endeavor, but whatever. In any event, thanks for watching regardless your sentiment on the vid :)
@TumorWarrior67 yes, I'm not "local" to Laguna but been riding there for years and pretty much know what's going on, thank you. Your analogy is also pretty far off from the topic at hand lol. But now I see where this is going... and it seems to be really a territorial thing and it seems you represent and speak for all of your "local" area. So you do you and I do me and we both enjoy our riding sessions.
@TumorWarrior67 and @AngrywolverineMTB are right. No entrances/exits and no name dropping. I get why you want to though because we’ve all been there, me included. But over the years, you see the cycle of trails getting too hot and then getting policed/destroyed repeat over and over like clockwork. It sucks, but it’s the game we play. The whole no name dropping thing isn’t so much of a rule as it is an understanding that keeping a low profile out here is how we have the best chance at keeping these trails alive. I don’t blame you at all for wanting to share that you’re able to ride some of the gnarliest trails around and stoke people out to do the same, and name dropping is naturally a part of that process. At the end of the day, you posting the name of these trails won’t do anything for our access to these trails, but everyone here is just trying to give you a reminder that staying low key is in everyone’s best interest. I’m always open to discussion though because it’s important to me to understand current perspectives and feelings towards the area.
At least you seem to be more civil than @tumor. I agree and been in agreement from the beginning that we want our trails to remain "secret" so to speak. Not showing entries is obvious. Not showing exit, eh, that depends if it's obvious or not, but obviously not pointing it out. There is no hard rule about it, just as you say, thus nobody has the right to come on like @tumor and declare it so. Absolutely silly, and to continue on about it, wheeew! As for no name dropping? Ya, to each their own. Pretty much every secret trail you, I or most other routine riders are aware of are still there, still functional, still "secret". Even with all the name dropping, all the tons of videos, etc. So the notion of no name dropping does nothing, and really doesn't expose the trail anymore than somebody simply coming across it.
Any rider that's pretty confident in their riding skills are the ones that are seeking out these trails. And those riders will pretty much be the ones that will also respect them and keep it's (the trails) anonymity. Ain't no joe blow who's fresh off a beach cruiser gonna get out searching for such trails. Let's be realistic. And Rangers? As I mentioned earlier, it takes alot to make them move in the direction to shut down a trail.
Just as you say, "at the end of the day, you posting the name of these trails won’t do anything for our access", rings absolute truth. I just don't get why some folks are so hung up over it. Bong Drop has probably the most vids on yt than any, including entry, exit, sessioning, etc. Yet where's the fuss? O, and it's still around.... been around for years and probably someday will become an official Aliso trail. How many videos do you see of Telonics, including entry and exit. And yes, that's still an illegal trail. We just don't call it a "secret" trail, the magic word. How about Silver Surfur, entries, exit. We all know where that is, the rangers know where that is. Let's not fool ourselves in believing it's some secret. Poopchute, ya, the rangers know that one too.
Lastly, no offense, but I don't need reminders. I have respectifully kept a "low profile" on any "secret" trail I've done. I just don't prescribe to the silly notion of no name dropping. Regardless, thanks for your feedback :)
@@TumorWarrior67 listen "bud", if there is any ignorance, it's coming from you and you alone. I'm gonna lay this out as carefuly as I can and after that, I'm done. If you want to talk further we can have a discussion by other means.
1. Apparently you're not fully understanding and have not read my words which I've repeated a number of times. All you keep running your mouth about is name dropping. Stop pounding a dead horse bro, relax, breath. There's more to life than dropped names. AGAIN, from the beginning, I agree and respect maintaining the "secrecy" of such trails. What I DO NOT agree with is "not" name dropping. Pure and simple, repeated now I don't know how many times.
2. I dont' give a rat's rear end if I'm not "local", but if some "local" unspoken rule is to ride only a trek session on a 29'r on xyz trail, then screw that, I ain't listening. The whole "no name dropping" notion is equivelant to that, but you don't somehow understand that view and refuse that view. I gaurantee you that I've been riding aliso and laguna areas faaaar longer than you have. I'm a freakin' 47 year old rider bro and I have no time for petty exchanges. @angrywoverine at least said his mind and was done. WTF are you doing? You remind me of a child that just has to get the last word in.... especially ending with that silly "Ignorance at it's finest". Did you notice I didn't respond? I got thick skin man, I let you have that last petty word. You can own it.
3. Why the convo continued? Because you kept at it man! I dunno how many times I attempted to finish off the discussion with "Ride on", "thanks for watching...", "... enjoy our riding sessions", etc. Go re-read my freakin' comments for goodness gracious.
4. I have indeed "kept a low profile" in terms of certain expectations. And yes, I have posted a handful of "secret" trails and will do more when I can. I'll repeat this again, I have respected unspoken rules time after time and will continue to do so EXCEPT the name dropping crap. I'm done on this topic bro, stopping banging a broken drum.
Now that I've answered your questions, most likely not to your satsifaction, this is squashed. Ping me on my instagram if you want to discuss further.
@@MTBr-of-SoCal Respectfully, plastering the trail name all over a clickbait-style RUclips thumbnail is the opposite of “low profile”. Just because there’s like 10 other people that do it, doesn’t mean you should. It has nothing to do with keeping these trails secret or hidden from rangers. That ship sailed decades ago. In fact, I have personally looked over a map, with a ranger, of every illegal trail to have ever existed in laguna in their HQ that they had made while we talked about why the issue was complicated. And that was back in 2014. You can see every one of these trails in satellite images. Doesn’t matter. What does matter is being low key. Why would you want to draw attention to the fact that you break the law? You are publicly and permanently announcing to the world that you break the law. That’s the kind of stuff that forces rangers to do their job. How do I know? Because I’ve talked to rangers and gone to city council meetings. They can and will act due to things like RUclips videos. Does the Tex Haines incident ring any bells? It’s like posting videos of you doing 115mph on the 5 and then being surprised when there’s more cops on the road doing speed traps or even looking for you specifically.
We’ve given you plenty of reasons not to name drop and video entrances/exits. Why so adamant about posting them? To get views? Do you really need that validation? Post all you want about Telonics, it’s basically legal, but everything else should be discrete. Also, I know it seems like we’re picking on you specifically, but I just happened to come across your vid.
@iainmorgan1598 you quoted: "It has nothing to do with keeping these trails secret or hidden from rangers." So there we have it. It has nothing to do with keeping trails secret. Wow! In any event, I'm commenting to at least owe you some answers to your question...
- don't need validation.
- adamant about posting, that's what I do, post vids on my rides, nothing more. Not sure why people like you are so adamant about forcing your wills and beliefs.
- You can't have it both ways bro. An illegal trails is an illegal trail. There's no "but..." in regards to Telonics or similar.
- No, you haven't given any good reason. You negated your whole theory of secret trails and also admitted the rangers are plenty aware (which I pointed out much earlier). It really boils down to your idea of keeping a trail low-key vs my idea of low-key. So there you have it, a difference of opinion.
- Breaking the law comment? OMG that just came out from left field. LOL, please stop reaching there.
Anyhow, as I mentioned to @tumor, topic is done here, way overdue. So if you wish to chat further, hit me up on my instagram and I'll be glad to discuss more.
It's been great having this discussion, but I'll be locking down the comments as it's getting quite long and overdue. Again, hit me up on instagram if you wish to discuss further.
So much for NOT naming trails
Sorry for not being part of your elitist group, but you can't expect everyone to prescribe to your belief. As long as riders are being respectful, not revealing details in how to get there, not showing obvious entries, then all's good.
This whole notion of "no name dropping" is silly. In fact, it reveals less of trails than some youtuber showing their out-of-town buddies or riding group off menu trails, who then tells their buddies of those trails, who then... you get the picture.
No harm, no foul :)
@@MTBr-of-SoCal first off, I’m not an elitist, nor am I part of an elitist group, there’s already enuff scrutiny on the trails, I’m just sayin in the future don’t mention the trail names, I know you’re not the first or last person to mention names of trails it’s just about keep in the rangers from destroying them
@AngrywolverineMTB rangers are far smarter than we give them credit for. I'm willing to bet you a beer or two that they know all of such trails and probably more than we routine riders know of ourselves. They don't drive around or hike around without discovering them. It's their freakin' job lol. They also don't shut them down unless they have very good reasons to do so, and more times than not, it's due to an over zealous Karin resident or the trail encroaches on a divided parcel.
Telonics to this day is still an unsanctioned trail, name dropped by every Tom, Dick & Harry but still exists and rangers don't give a crap. Lizard trail over on Laguna side was illegally built by MTB'rs but over time, circa 1993, became a sanctioned trail.
@@TumorWarrior67 do you own the land the trail is on? Do you have the rights to that trail? If so, then my full apologies. Otherwise, you have no standing in declaring "no name dropping", "no showing entries", "no showing exits". Such statements are the biggest forms of elitism that exists in the mtb community, and to do it blatantly on somebody else's vid, whom you don't even know! And if calling you and other guy out on it makes you feel uncomfortable, perhaps you should think twice. As mentioned, I get and respect the notion of not showing exactly how to get to these trails and entries but that's it. #1 is understandable to a degree. #2 is an absolute silly gate-keeping endeavor, but whatever. In any event, thanks for watching regardless your sentiment on the vid :)
@TumorWarrior67 yes, I'm not "local" to Laguna but been riding there for years and pretty much know what's going on, thank you. Your analogy is also pretty far off from the topic at hand lol. But now I see where this is going... and it seems to be really a territorial thing and it seems you represent and speak for all of your "local" area. So you do you and I do me and we both enjoy our riding sessions.
Good stuff...have a Strava to your adventures?
I do but I typically don't use it. Thanks for watching!
For me there is no "secret trail" I know where all these are, I have rode them all.