The book is fictional. Philipa is not a professional BUT she is the one person that pushed it. SHE did all the research and pushed for it. Sometimes a non professional will discover something that has been missed by professionals. If you have someone that LOVES research and lives for it, becomes single minded and if you find someone like that then use their help. I am a genealogist and have stayed up entire nights when I am on a good thread and able to prove my work. It bothered me when I watched Richards burial and didnt see Philipa thanked or prominent in the entire thing. She pushed for it. Without her they would not have found him....oh and btw he is my family. He lived at my family castle Middleham
She didn't do all the research. There were two papers published that pinpointed the site of the burial long before she appeared on the scene. Phlipa was thanked and included in every press conference. His burial would not have been the right place to thank people. She'll be lucky if she finds another archaeological department willing to work with her again. Her latest venture uncovered two documents of interest to anyone concerned with the Princes in the Tower, but there's a lot of work left to be done on that before anything can be proved or attested. So maybe she'll be busy doing that for a while.
In the actual documentary of them finding Richard the third the woman digging in the hole was wearing a white suit to prevent DNA contamination. Nobody else was because they weren’t around the body.
Ah ok that makes sense, I've not workked on a site where that was a concern and DNA is not my realm of specialty so I wasn't aware. Good to know, thanks for watching!
Leicester University is a centre of excellence for DNA research. It actually helped the police identify a murderer who was the first person to be convicted on DNA evidence.
Having met not met her I can't say whether or not I like her. I don't like that the film seems incredibly one sided and contributes to the narrative that archaeologists are bad, secretive and look down on amateurs. This not true in my experience and I think it hurts the relationship between us and the wider public. I agree that she deserves a lot of credit for this discovery but it's also true that she couldn't have made it without the contributions and efforts of archaeologists.
@@Inside_Archaeology in my opinion the narrative of the film did not lean me to believe that archaeologists are bad, secretive or look down on amateurs. In any profession, there will be individuals who for whatever reason may dismiss or not seriously consider a perspective. Meaning there will be archaeologists who uphold credibility and there will be some that don't. In this situation it seems there was a lack of honor for Phillipa. So maybe this story is a human story to help expand perspective, not to denigrate. I certainly didn't come away with that view.
Well it looks like the defamation case is won. Now Richard Taylor can sue the film makers and writers. There's a link in this article for the actual case results.
The Richard III find was fascinating. Henry I of England is also rumoured to be buried under a car park at the former site of Reading Prison, Reading, UK. I wonder if the film you talk about might prompt more interest ....
Yes, I mention this project at the end of my video. I must say that is some kind of luck to have this happen twice but I'm sure stranger things have happened. Thanks for watching!
Richard the third dna was haplo G2a3 belonging to a rare PF3359 group same dna as Henri and Louis of France, Richard the third ancestor Robert I (1011 - 21 March 1076) House of Capet.
I liked the treatment the tv people did where they got some one with a curved spine and put him on a horse. They also went into the tremendous other avenues this skeleton could have been someone else. The movie sounds depressing
Yeah I think I saw clips of that documentary. The overall conclusion was that even though his spine looked bad it wouldn't have been that noticable in person and he could have worn padded clothes to conceal it, not nearly the hunchback Shakespeare claims he was. I wouldn't say the movie was depressing but I also don't think it was a great movie. Thanks for watching!
Good information, but you do come off a bit snarky toward Phillipa. It’s no small feat Phillipa researched King Richard for more than a decade and eventually convinced people in powerful positions to rip up the car park/parKING lot, especially with such a debilitating ailment like chronic fatigue syndrome. She’s to be greatly admired imho.
I never said she wasn't? I think she definitely deserves credit for what she achieved, I just don't think she needs to trample on the archaeologists because of it. The film is very clearly her side of the story, and there are always two sides. To be fair, as an archaeologist you definitely have people come to you with some really bizarre theories or stories of hidden treasure that they need your help finding. After a while you get desensitized to it, because you can't take everything seriously and the vast majority of the time these things never pan out. Them being skeptical is them being scientists, and I don't think that should be held against them as much as it was in the film.
she could have just looked at the papers already published on the position of his tomb, which were readily available. That would have saved her a lot of time.
The lady who found the kings bones said in this movie that she doesnt beleive he killed the Princes because there were more family that would of inherit the throne but i say if that was the case why did he get to become king??
Great summary of the film and your thoughts of both the film and the actual events. I do feel that there is some snobbery in archeology when it comes to amateurs/less educated wading in, but I do fully understand and respect that there are rules and processes that need and rightfully should be followed. I would love to hear your thoughts on how Lee Berger shared the discovery of Homo naledi with the wider community, rather than restricting access to a favoured few - which seems to be the norm with new discoveries, thus delaying the announcement of information (for better or worse). This subsequently gained the ire of the mainstream archaeological community, with many attempts to undermine his professionalism… I will step back from claiming a full character assassination.
There are definitely some people who are snobs/rude about it but also I think anyone has a bit of a natural reaction like that when you've studied something extensively, spent quite a bit of money and time on studying it and then someone comes in who hasn't and tries to tell you what to do or implies they should also be considered an expert/on the same level. There is definitely lots of gatekeeping, particularly in older generation archaeologists, but personally I think you see a lot more of open collaboration now than you did a few decades ago. People also misunderstand why some disocveries are held back form being announced as soon as they're disocvered; a lot of the time it's due to security concerns especially in a day and age where everyone fancies themselves a reporter with their cameraphone. So you have risks of looting and then people coming onto sites and trampling all over your hard work or disturbing the site to get a selfie. And sometimes we don't know something is a big discovery until we've left the field or we want to confirm it before announcing and then having to retract a statement, which makes us look stupid. That doesn't mean there can't be collaboration however; in my best archaeology of January 2023 video I talk about the cave paintings discovery which was a project started by an amateur but then done in collaboration with academics to confirm his results. I haven't heard of Lee Berger but I will look into it. Thanks for watching!
Not just a little snobbery in this woman’s case, but a TON of snarky and in my opinion jealous comments. This woman will never come close to Phillipas accomplishment and she knows it. For crying out loud, Phillipa put in more than a decade of her life researching Richard. Her dedication should be applauded, not subjected to snarky comments.
Archaeology wouldn't be as successful without the work of the amateurs and volunteers who work with them. Some archaeologists got their qualifications after working on a site as a volunteer.
I think she did some great research and obviously has some great instincts. I'm interested to see if she is also correct about Henry I being udner a car park in Reading. Thanks for watching!
While the films main purpose seems to be an exercise in Self aggrandizement, while portraying dowsing rod archaeology, it is still fun that they found the old pretender under the 'R' parking space. 😂
I have always found academic's flock together to cover each others backs even if they are wrong. They love to belittle the amitor because they feel threatened. MS Langley was treated very badly.
no she wasn't. The courts have just found so. She wasn't the first person to identify his burial site. She was included in every media panel concerning the discovery. Her contribution was welcomed by the university. The university paid 80% of the costs. There is proof of all that.
If I remember right Richard basically had scoliosis. I made the mistake of watching just the first part of the movie. It's garbage.I'd rather watch Indiana Jones.
I really want to like this channel, but was hoping you would get to the substance of the story right away. Perhaps shortening your background story at the beginning at the start or blending your background story throughout the the 14 + minutes. Hope you read this as a feedback and not trolling. Keep going though!
Hey so there's a few different reasons I give backgrounds I'm not sure which particular part you're referring to though, Richard's bio, the movie summary or my intro? Either way RUclips usually does automatic chapters for me so people can skip ahead to the parts they're interested in, I can see they've not done it here and I don't know how to add them so sorry about that. I give backgrounds to all my videos because that's something I've just been taught to do as an archaeologist to make sure everyone can have the whole story. I can't assume that everyone knows about Richard III or his story because that will exclude some of my audience who don't know much about English history. Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching!
The book is fictional. Philipa is not a professional BUT she is the one person that pushed it. SHE did all the research and pushed for it. Sometimes a non professional will discover something that has been missed by professionals. If you have someone that LOVES research and lives for it, becomes single minded and if you find someone like that then use their help. I am a genealogist and have stayed up entire nights when I am on a good thread and able to prove my work.
It bothered me when I watched Richards burial and didnt see Philipa thanked or prominent in the entire thing. She pushed for it. Without her they would not have found him....oh and btw he is my family. He lived at my family castle Middleham
She didn't do all the research. There were two papers published that pinpointed the site of the burial long before she appeared on the scene. Phlipa was thanked and included in every press conference. His burial would not have been the right place to thank people. She'll be lucky if she finds another archaeological department willing to work with her again. Her latest venture uncovered two documents of interest to anyone concerned with the Princes in the Tower, but there's a lot of work left to be done on that before anything can be proved or attested. So maybe she'll be busy doing that for a while.
In the actual documentary of them finding Richard the third the woman digging in the hole was wearing a white suit to prevent DNA contamination. Nobody else was because they weren’t around the body.
Ah ok that makes sense, I've not workked on a site where that was a concern and DNA is not my realm of specialty so I wasn't aware. Good to know, thanks for watching!
Huh. I actually forgot about the DNA stuff.
Leicester University is a centre of excellence for DNA research. It actually helped the police identify a murderer who was the first person to be convicted on DNA evidence.
I am impressed by Phillipa Langley, I think that she will uncover the truth about the Princes
It would be great for someone, Philippa or otherwise, to discover the truth but personally I don't think it's doable without a time machine.
Phillipa Is the reason they found Richard period, Sounds like you don't like the woman She deserves 99% of credit
Having met not met her I can't say whether or not I like her. I don't like that the film seems incredibly one sided and contributes to the narrative that archaeologists are bad, secretive and look down on amateurs. This not true in my experience and I think it hurts the relationship between us and the wider public. I agree that she deserves a lot of credit for this discovery but it's also true that she couldn't have made it without the contributions and efforts of archaeologists.
@@Inside_Archaeology in my opinion the narrative of the film did not lean me to believe that archaeologists are bad, secretive or look down on amateurs. In any profession, there will be individuals who for whatever reason may dismiss or not seriously consider a perspective. Meaning there will be archaeologists who uphold credibility and there will be some that don't. In this situation it seems there was a lack of honor for Phillipa. So maybe this story is a human story to help expand perspective, not to denigrate. I certainly didn't come away with that view.
This film is not a documentary film. This is “a” story.
Well it looks like the defamation case is won. Now Richard Taylor can sue the film makers and writers. There's a link in this article for the actual case results.
The Richard III find was fascinating. Henry I of England is also rumoured to be buried under a car park at the former site of Reading Prison, Reading, UK. I wonder if the film you talk about might prompt more interest ....
Yes, I mention this project at the end of my video. I must say that is some kind of luck to have this happen twice but I'm sure stranger things have happened. Thanks for watching!
Richard the third dna was haplo G2a3 belonging to a rare PF3359 group
same dna as Henri and Louis of France,
Richard the third ancestor
Robert I (1011 - 21 March 1076) House of Capet.
I liked the treatment the tv people did where they got some one with a curved spine and put him on a horse. They also went into the tremendous other avenues this skeleton could have been someone else. The movie sounds depressing
Yeah I think I saw clips of that documentary. The overall conclusion was that even though his spine looked bad it wouldn't have been that noticable in person and he could have worn padded clothes to conceal it, not nearly the hunchback Shakespeare claims he was. I wouldn't say the movie was depressing but I also don't think it was a great movie. Thanks for watching!
Good information, but you do come off a bit snarky toward Phillipa. It’s no small feat Phillipa researched King Richard for more than a decade and eventually convinced people in powerful positions to rip up the car park/parKING lot, especially with such a debilitating ailment like chronic fatigue syndrome. She’s to be greatly admired imho.
I never said she wasn't? I think she definitely deserves credit for what she achieved, I just don't think she needs to trample on the archaeologists because of it. The film is very clearly her side of the story, and there are always two sides. To be fair, as an archaeologist you definitely have people come to you with some really bizarre theories or stories of hidden treasure that they need your help finding. After a while you get desensitized to it, because you can't take everything seriously and the vast majority of the time these things never pan out. Them being skeptical is them being scientists, and I don't think that should be held against them as much as it was in the film.
she could have just looked at the papers already published on the position of his tomb, which were readily available. That would have saved her a lot of time.
I saw this picture this afternoon across the pond 🇺🇸. It was a great recommendation and very enjoyable film, subscribed this evening.😊😊😊
Thank you very much!
@@Inside_Archaeology you are so welcome Rachel 🤗 ….
I Even know the guy who's parking spot he was found.
Very cool!
It didn't say whether or not they found Grey Friars?
it was never lost.
The lady who found the kings bones said in this movie that she doesnt beleive he killed the Princes because there were more family that would of inherit the throne but i say if that was the case why did he get to become king??
I guess until we have a time machine we'll never know! Personally I don't think he's as altruistic as the movie paints him to be.
Enjoyable film, the archeologists came over as reasonable people, Leicester University less so.
Great summary of the film and your thoughts of both the film and the actual events. I do feel that there is some snobbery in archeology when it comes to amateurs/less educated wading in, but I do fully understand and respect that there are rules and processes that need and rightfully should be followed. I would love to hear your thoughts on how Lee Berger shared the discovery of Homo naledi with the wider community, rather than restricting access to a favoured few - which seems to be the norm with new discoveries, thus delaying the announcement of information (for better or worse). This subsequently gained the ire of the mainstream archaeological community, with many attempts to undermine his professionalism… I will step back from claiming a full character assassination.
There are definitely some people who are snobs/rude about it but also I think anyone has a bit of a natural reaction like that when you've studied something extensively, spent quite a bit of money and time on studying it and then someone comes in who hasn't and tries to tell you what to do or implies they should also be considered an expert/on the same level. There is definitely lots of gatekeeping, particularly in older generation archaeologists, but personally I think you see a lot more of open collaboration now than you did a few decades ago. People also misunderstand why some disocveries are held back form being announced as soon as they're disocvered; a lot of the time it's due to security concerns especially in a day and age where everyone fancies themselves a reporter with their cameraphone. So you have risks of looting and then people coming onto sites and trampling all over your hard work or disturbing the site to get a selfie. And sometimes we don't know something is a big discovery until we've left the field or we want to confirm it before announcing and then having to retract a statement, which makes us look stupid.
That doesn't mean there can't be collaboration however; in my best archaeology of January 2023 video I talk about the cave paintings discovery which was a project started by an amateur but then done in collaboration with academics to confirm his results. I haven't heard of Lee Berger but I will look into it. Thanks for watching!
Not just a little snobbery in this woman’s case, but a TON of snarky and in my opinion jealous comments. This woman will never come close to Phillipas accomplishment and she knows it.
For crying out loud, Phillipa put in more than a decade of her life researching Richard. Her dedication should be applauded, not subjected to snarky comments.
Archaeology wouldn't be as successful without the work of the amateurs and volunteers who work with them. Some archaeologists got their qualifications after working on a site as a volunteer.
Hy you can help me archeology course online after p.g in history
Oh, yeah. That map scene chapped my ass.
To what extent do you respect Phillippa Langley?
I think she did some great research and obviously has some great instincts. I'm interested to see if she is also correct about Henry I being udner a car park in Reading. Thanks for watching!
While the films main purpose seems to be an exercise in Self aggrandizement, while portraying dowsing rod archaeology, it is still fun that they found the old pretender under the 'R' parking space. 😂
I have always found academic's flock together to cover each others backs even if they are wrong. They love to belittle the amitor because they feel threatened. MS Langley was treated very badly.
I never belittled her, I think she's made a great accomplishment. Also wouldn't consider myself an academic.
she was not.
Yes she was !!!!!!!
no she wasn't. The courts have just found so. She wasn't the first person to identify his burial site. She was included in every media panel concerning the discovery. Her contribution was welcomed by the university. The university paid 80% of the costs. There is proof of all that.
But we learned he had no hunchback and no withered hand.
If I remember right Richard basically had scoliosis. I made the mistake of watching just the first part of the movie. It's garbage.I'd rather watch Indiana Jones.
I really want to like this channel, but was hoping you would get to the substance of the story right away. Perhaps shortening your background story at the beginning at the start or blending your background story throughout the the 14 + minutes. Hope you read this as a feedback and not trolling. Keep going though!
Hey so there's a few different reasons I give backgrounds I'm not sure which particular part you're referring to though, Richard's bio, the movie summary or my intro? Either way RUclips usually does automatic chapters for me so people can skip ahead to the parts they're interested in, I can see they've not done it here and I don't know how to add them so sorry about that. I give backgrounds to all my videos because that's something I've just been taught to do as an archaeologist to make sure everyone can have the whole story. I can't assume that everyone knows about Richard III or his story because that will exclude some of my audience who don't know much about English history. Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching!
I only read the book and didn’t see it as disparaging archeologists. Maybe she saved that for the movie,