It's largely because the only people left PvPing, especially arenas, are people who play all day for a living on Twitch or have played since a time when it was more active. There's no influx of new players and hasn't been for some time. And there's virtually no chance of it being fixed anytime soon. All they can do is start making changes for the next major patch or expansion. The barrier to entry for World of Warcraft PvP is staggering, compared to most games out there. If they want to get new players playing, they're going to have to allow a tournament-like style game mode on the live servers that any player can access; literally straight into max-level and have all the gear options. Legion templates were as close as we got, but kind of limited customization. In essence, retire gear-farming and eliminate the gear excuse; more important for starts of seasons rather than later. As for `training`. New accounts are all put into the same training bracket based on honor level of the account. This already exists for Random Battlegrounds. For those that don't know, accounts between 1-50 honor level are placed into their own bracket unless they queue with someone higher; ie, premade. War Mode: For those that say they'd like to keep gearing in PvP, why not keep it for War Mode? And make War Mode more competitive for outdoor item-level. Providing that sense of power progression. Rated brackets: Retire gear progression entirely. Overhaul MMR system to also take into account honor level up to honor level 500. Many new players will never even touch a veteran arena player regardless of the character they're playing on that battle.net account, for quite some time, but should one become some sort of prodigy, an exceptional rank in rated should bypass it. After 500, arena ranking acts on its own. There's a lot solutions to this, what I'd consider a pretty basic problem: The entire system is outdated.
so all this is correct. not to mention that there is a pool of mid players. who are above causals and new players yet below gladiators and streamers. the system in season 4 of dragonflight was way more linient. so was in season 3. but than the super players, Gladiators, they complained how their queue times are 40 mins + and how they always play the same 1000 players. some come TWW, blizzard fixed it in a way. the queues became better. But at what cost? exactly those glad playes are now being thrown into the mix of 1500-1800 MMR player pool. how i knows this. i pvped every season last expack and got multiple 1800 and pushed 2100 a few times. after initial few weeks in start of the season, and especially after conquest cap was lifted. playing in 1500-1800 was very easy, almost joyful and you NEVER was a glad/pro player, except for an occasional booster. in TWW, we're like 12-13 weeks into the season. im pushing my shaman for elite set, im at 1700, every lobby i see a glad player, and i OFTEN see super good players who literally trash on everyone in the lobby and go 6/6. not to mention that the queue times did get better, but not for people in 1500-1800 MMR. im at 1920 on feral right now, my queues are about the same as of 1500. meanwhile all 4 seasons of last xpack, on my toons i pushed 2100, queue times past 1800, were 30-40 mins.
I totally agree. Guildwars 2 did a good job with PvP gear templates/pvp only servers - it would be great for wow. I also think that having some kind of AI arena training option would be great too - kind of like the AI dungeon thing they have now but with different degrees of difficulty
100%. A month into the season (so after all the pros had time to climb higher ranking), a friend and I did some 2s. We got trashed at 1500-1700 range by multi-glad or multi-elite 'alts' in legit half the games we played. It was misery and my friend quit trying. I got my 1800 in SS =( And yeah some will say 2s isn't a real bracket but the reality is high-ranking players have such long ass queues for matches that they come troll in low ratings to get some games going. Or at least it's what it feels like
you know i had a free day i thought maybe why not q up some shuffle in my disc at 10 in the morning - huge mistakes fought 2 rank 1 palyers in a row which made me only win 2 rounds lost like 70 rating in 20 mins :D
Just not true at all. There aren't r1s or good players at the 1500 or 1800 range, unless they are carrying a friend. Most people will win their ways out of the rat leagues. You're just not good at the game. Which is funny because this game is about as easy as operating a fisher price toy.
@@Zetherior Idk, I'm not a rat who's hardstuck at the bottom of the barrel. But good players don't get stuck at 1500 or 1800 because if they were good, the mmr + inflation would put them where they belong. So I find it highly unlikely that every player at rat league levels has a glad mount. If they did then their playing a new character in which case you should be able to beat them anyway because of a gear advantage. Just get good.
@@prod7906 Missing the point man, the volume of glad players who are just passing through on ladder represents a portion of regular players matches, lets say 10% of their games have a glad who's just passing through on their way to 2.5k+.. well thats taking the normal players winrate and knocking it down by 10% assuming the glads passing through were winning as they should.. so if you take a normal players winrate at any rating and auto-lose 10% of their games, well now they will plateau at a lower rating than if those glad players were not passing through. Glads passing through = lower plateau rating for everyone else. That's the point. It's like being stuck in the slow lane of a highway because there's an endless stream of racers coming down the fast lane, you have to give way because they're faster than you.
How are you struggling to get a 1800 set when your mmr starts at 1800? If your jumping into solo shuffle in green there's more of an issue there then just skill.
I was always trying the entire season to get 1950+ every expansion until I tried solo rbgs, got the rating first week easy and fun and left pvp for good it’s wasted I’m trying raiding now much more fun
@@JB-rb3jkyou start at 1800mmr but 0 rating. You have to get 1800 rating by going 3:3 up till 1,400 rating and then going 4:2 at least to get to 1,800 rating. If you’re starting in green honor gear, you can for sure struggle, especially if you’re new
Good job identifying the problem, ruki! You are making lemonade from rotten lemons. I tried with all my heart, but after 19 years of only playing wow pvp, I see very clearly that Blizzard really doesn't appreciate our time and money. I have moved on for now with the hope that things will get better. However, I think I'm just optimistic that they will
I am at 2.1 rating in solo shuffle and EVERYONE in my lobbies have dragonflight 3s glad mount which was already quite hard to get then. It is really crazy…
Sad but true. Leveling alts via bgs used to be fun now it's a total shit show with twinks everywhere & gear gaps. Max level pvp is overly bloated & complicated. If they don't cater to casuals & new players even more (@ least tww is better than SL for gearing etc) the pvp population will keep dwindling.. clearly they don't care about pvp lol. Ugh.
I decided to play a new healer and was learning the class, after getting full honor gear i decided to do solo que - obviously i wasnt fully aware of the class but people were so nasty to me and told me they were at 2k mmr.. i literally JUST started
this is another problem blizzard created. back in older expacks you started at the bottom (starter) MMR and than had to climb. now you start with high mmr and lose till you reach MMR where you win rate is about 50%, after you reach that stage, mmr starts to function properly and you "supposedly" get players of your skill. except, when you get matched with players of your level, you barely get any points, and when you lose, you lose about double, making it impossible to climb. but this blizzard did, so the pros and boosters wouldnt just go into arena with fresh, starter MMR" and stop on casuals all the way to 2k. which still happens.
@@Asmodeiusmy boy you wrote that very eloquently . Way better than my novel above. You're absolutely right. It's also funny seeing folks at 2k+ mmr starting or even the r1s at like 2400-2500 mmr go 3-3 winning 80-150 pts to 2500 . Meanwhile ur mmr starting at 1700 if you have ONE game worse than 3-3 getting to your mmr it really sets you back 😂 cuz now ur stuck with the 1600s
my problem is.. creating a glad mount and only 0,0018% are able to obtain it. I hope it will change in a way that MultiR1 will play at 3,2-3,4 k for the titel and not at 2,4 for the mount. Thanks for the videos!
I played casually during BFA and got 2200+, but TWW feels like 2200+ at 1800ish, which is wild. One day of arena and I'm already fighting the top players on the ladder? Being gated from rewards sucks, but I also don't have the time (or care) to play this old washed game 24/7 to comepete at the level of a small group of turbo nerds. I canceled my sub, much rather play new games than be pvp fodder to the 1%. I have 0 faith in Blizzard fixing anything ever, especially now that they're owned by Microsoft.
This post is so true. I hit 1800 in the first 2 weeks of the season starting, and my god it was fun seeing some bigger names in my shuffles. Then I took a break. Just came back and starting to pvp with alts and I find it fun to face players who are at a higher skill. You can learn a lot from their positioning and more. Though I do find it frustrating. Just recently started to heal (first time) and play a caster (first time) and damn... I have never had to work so hard to get a win.
The rating system must be scrapped entirely, along with the rewards system. I can go farm old Mythics to get transmog, so it's obvious I should be able to do the same in PvP, even if it means a lot of grinding. Every single player should be able to get the rewards-not the 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% that play this game 12 hours a day for the last 15 years.
I hate how they nuked WPvP in TWW. In DF you had so much more how to spend you Bloodtokens and that PvP World set was awesome. In TWW you can even use blood tokens for Bloodstones. It would be cool if you could buy some moutns or special WPVP cometics outside that one set. They really need to focus more on this.
The 30 min que simulator is killing the game. I mean, i get home from work, playing with my kids, putting them to sleep, now time is at 8. I que for solo que, 2400 on my lock and it takes 30 min.. so in 1 hour i get to play 1 round of arena.. i mean, why would i do this?
this is because they added solo q to the game. before, in bfa and slands you would just que with ur team and within 1 hour you'd have 10-20 games played maybe even more. solo q ruined the game while people like venruki and others praise solo q. solo q is only good if ques are less than 5 minutes. gg wow
You have to also recognize your own limitations. You chose to have kids and limit your time. That and at 2400 you are a great pvper and there's less people for you to fight.
@2:10 honestly none of what I've heard makes any sense. This is how ELO works, and it has to work that way. Also, ELO works really well. Go start a new chess account on lichess. Win your first game. Watch your ELO go from 1500 to 1750. Your K-value is still high though, if you lose your next game you're going to drop quite a bit. As your play more games your K-value drops and the wins and losses are less impactful. You want the system to be this way. If instead you started with low K-values, at this time, we probably still wouldn't see a 2500 rated player in any bracket. If you lowered the K-value, you really would start seeing high levels players getting stuck for periods of time in low brackets. Absolutely. There's just too much variance in solo shuffle. Starting with a high K-value is important for the system to stabilize everyone as close to their true rating as quickly as possible.
Also, many high-ranked players just smurf to beat noobs or lower their ranks to sell carries. I tried to do some 2s with a friend a few week ago and about 35% of our matches were against smurfs and carries. This has to go before new players start coming in.
the inflation part. if anything, it helps the glad players more than anybody else. because without MMR inflation, the pool of players in 2100-2400 bracket would be insanely small and all the glad players would have like 2-3 hour long queues. Now inflation puts some casuals and semi pro players there so the glads could leech the rating off of them and carry over from 2380 to 2400 and get their reward. Without inflation, once you play enough games and placed into your rightful skill MMR, the game is over for you. because at that point climbing is impossible, you would to be literally walking on thread mill, winning 2 lobbies, getting 5 and 4 points, than losing a lobby, losing 20 points. this is how system is designed. and the higher in rating you climb, the less points you get for the win and more you lose for the loss, to the point where winning 5/6 lobby gives you like 3 points .
Retail pvp design is dogshit and class designs are so bad it's not even funny. You can be a multi glad/r1 and lose 1v1 to someone that is drooling on keyboard just because they pressed 123 and out pve'd. There is so little play and outplay on retail now.
Its not awful for new players @Venruki. Its awful for anyone who isn't capable of getting in the top few percentage of players. The gulf of skill and knowledge is so massive and unlikely to improve because the game feels completely different going from average player to experienced to high performaning player that you don't get enough games against the better players to learn from them.
QUESTION! did anyone even notice how, or rather at what cost did blizzard reduced the queue times for DPS in solo shuffle? that was one of biggest complains in dragonflight. cause i did and i'll explain what they did, because i pvped like a mad man last 4 seasons. queue times were about the same all dragonflight, so we'll take just season 4 as example. the queue times at 1500 mmr, were about 15 mins on average and didn't really go up too high until 1800 (rating at which most people dropped off after taking their set) after 1800, queue times were like 30-40 mins and at 2000+ over a hour, no idea how bad it was at 2400, never reached it. now fast forward to TWW, season 1. 1500 rating, queue times about 11mins, 1800 about 20 mins and 2000, about 40 mins. the reduction happened in 2 steps/stages. Stage 1: the reduction at high rating, because glad players were waiting 1-2 hours for a match, blizzard literally lowered MMR requirement for their brackets, so now you often see glads in lobbies of as low as 1800 mmr. Stage 2: they literally made matches faster. so if before the fight would start with 20-30 sec window of people finding a good moment to have a GO (burst), they exchanged bursts, this is where they would burn their 2 min cds. Usually easy stage, and than no one dies, 2nd time the CDs are up at about minute 4 of the fight, the 2nd GO happens and one team ends up losing. the 3 min CDs if Used right off the bat, you would get them 2nd time before fight is over. So fights on average were 4 about mins, sometimes 5. Now, in TWW, the 3 min CDs, if you use it right of the bat, you wont get it back 2nd time before match ends. most matches end before 3 minute mark. your 2 min CDs, you get them back 50% of the time, only if you figure out your GO in first 10 seconds of the match and healer makes good trades. average fight time is about 2 minutes 30 seconds. They gave people more damage and now fights are way shorter. so this speeds up the rate at which healers come out of the lobby and ready to again. speeding up the queue.
btw, if anyone says that blizzard improved queue times in dragonflight by introducing extra rewards for healers. that didn't help, no one wanted extra conquest, people wanted extra rating for cosmetic rewards. at first it looked like a good idea, but at the end of the day, you just realized that you hit conquest cap much faster and end up stopping, and when cap unlocked, you didnt even care for extra conquest you got by playing a healer. if anything, it only made healers queue less, because they reached cap faster. And right now playing a healer is just a shit show.
Hey Ven, respectfully for you to say we don't get paid for solutions is a bit of a cop out. You're one of the most successful WoW PvP streamers, you do commentary for AWC: you can absolutely provide feedback and suggestions - like you literally did as well as bring up other points you agree with - to Blizzard to try and at least get a dialogue going.
I just started playing shuffle with my war. Got in there full honor gear. Had to wait 20-30 min to get grouped with full conq players. Ended 4th or less in 4 games. But still climbed from 1000 to 1700 rating. Shows how broken the system is.
Playing as a healer is even worse these days. You’re constantly blamed by DPS for their bad positioning or poor defensive usage. On top of that, you’re up against Gladiators on their 10th alt because they need to stream and can’t do that with hour-long queues at 2400+ rating. Meanwhile, you lose 40 rating for going 2-4. It’s just rinse and repeat. No thank you, I’ll play other games. Same with the lottery of battlegrounds blitz if you are not a good FC that can carry games on your own. The grind is just too much without fun games.
I truly believe they need to get rid of mmr and make a flat rate increase/decrease. Currently, you don't lose rating under 1200 unless you really bomb. I play RBGs, so I'll use those numbers as an example. Under 1200, if you win, you get 192 rating. So that should be the flat rate under 1200. From 1200-1400 cut that in half (96) 1400-1600 cut that in half (48) 1600-1800 cut that in half (24). 1800+ would be the ball park you generally get if you win.. 12-15. A loss would be almost equal to that flat rate rating. Maybe a few points off + or - so it gives rating variance. As you raise and drop between those ratings, flat rate adjusts to what ever bracket you are in. AND, the real win is, if you lose several games in a row, when you finally win, you actually get rating and not just 0 cause your mmr is below your cr! This is especially for blitz. I hit 2462 then kept getting crappy lobbies. Cr went to 2200, mmr went to 2000. I finally won, and zero rating. Lost the next game, lost 15 more. Why play at that point? This may not be a fix all, but it's better than the current one.
I guess i'm all for the 2400 in my 1800 games. idk. I enjoy learning from my defeats especially at THE HIGEST LEVEL which is what we all sort of dream of. We've played wow for way too long and even endured The Maw. PvP has always had issues because its a PVE game. We are the minority. Suck it up. It wont change. PvE players out match us by like 15 to 1. This is a business and they will cater to the deepest pockets they can. Idk, wow PvP is fun as hell now more than ever imo. Group up with friends and it's a blast.
I'm newish to pvp. I've gotten duelist in the past. But this season is the first time I've really focused on learning and tried to join the ranks of gladiator. I'm hard stuck 2.1 SS. Every single game above 2k I'm the only gut out of the 6 players without a glad mount. I have maybe 5k rounds played in all brackets. Most gladiator players have 50k+ games. We want a new ranking system!
I have two warriors and an hunter.... Started playing shuffle and got 1800-1900 lobbies at literally 0cr. Even after some wins and about 1000cr i got like 2100-2200 lobbies... It's crazy
Possibly stating the obvious here but you can't have good matchmaking if there are no players to choose from. Instead of reinventing the matchmaking system the real question that should be asked is: "why is no one participating in pvp?" Poor matchmaking is a symptom, not the cause.
need more incentives for pvp. better elite sets, better weapon illusions, more and better looking mounts. in shadowlands pvers were forced to pvp for their bis trinket and the game had tons of people playing. i dont mind a system that forced pvers and pvpers to get 1 bis item from the respective area of the game.
We have this problem because of alts but Blizz wants to encourage this so I don't have a solution, but could be better if every player is allowed to create 1 char for every spec (3-4 max every class) and only the best for every class is calculated in a competitive ladder. In this case one player can't be the n1, n2, n3, n4 and so on, in a specific class/spec. We need to realize that some players bring 20 alts in the first 25 position in the ladder... this happens also at lower cr.
I do want to say, he mentions he doesn't want to sit in hour q's on his main and that sucks, but qing into people who aren't at your level is just going to keep removing people from the game. I've played against pikaboo multiple times while just trying to get my elite set. I love watching you, pika, and other wow streamers I quit pvp a few seasons back just felt hopeless. I've been 2380 in 3s back in BFA was 2900 in the Wrath classic "I prefer classic style". But, in all brackets there are elite players, "who are on their 4th alt" because they don't want to sit in q's and it's not their fault like Ven said blizzard has it setup like that. However, it does kill people like me who just want to try and push glad and are fighting R1 players at 1800. My buddy has a website he used that would track alt's and one of the games he got into was against a R1 DK on his 8th alt DK not even a new character he just loved playing his DK. Honestly, I think the top end players should be struggling not the lower rank people and what I mean is similar to what Venruki said in one of his videos the 1500-2200 players are the ones that need to be happy for PVP to even exist. They need to lock R1 players to the top q's regardless of if it's an alt or not they should be the ones dealing with inconveniencing problems like q times not the majority of the player base. I like the idea of locking your account to a certain range so if your main is 2500 your alt of a different class should be lock at 2200 or something. I'm sure Ven would agree he goes into a new class with a much higher skill cap than some of the people maining that class for 8 years and stuck at 1800.
Do u ever get tired of repeating this issue over and over for years??? They dont care about pvp. Its a pve game boss. Pvp is a after thought for them. We been complaining about same shit for years and all they did was give us pvp vendor and a new bg lmfao
"I'm not going to sit 1 hour Q's because I want to play the game" He's right, but if they forced locked brackets, any rank 1 that wanted to play the game on any alt would be at the correct rating and the long Q problem would be instantly solved for them. GG
Can confirm, had a new pres evoker I wanted to learn. Did ss, went 6-0. The next 7 ss ques i did ranged from 2k-2.2k. I would win 1/6 and get my 100 cr meanwhile the the other healer who went 5/6 gained less than I did.
its not just pvp. pve is also very difficult to get into. its nothing like vanilla or tbc where everythings straight forward. there's a piece of gear. you go get it. there isn't enormous ilvl inflation between seasons, people in karazhan while other people are in black temple but everyone still feels roughly as powerful, at least you can confidently attack them and not feel like youre 3 tiers behind. i think we just have to accept that Retail is a seasonal experience now. it's not an expansion-wide experience. you log in, do your thing for 5 or 6 weeks and then go play the other 6 versions of WoW.
4:09 to the end is nice, never knew why Ven played so many classes, its the queue times, interesting and the learning ofcourse, and it definately makes the commentating easier i'd imagine, so its a ++, hehe
What about having leagues? You have an entry league and you can't get out of it, or you are pushed out of it, once or until you have a won a certain number of matches. I think getting pushed out is key, otherwise you get twinks. We need training grounds that are worth your time, they must have worthwhile rewards, and we need a mentoring system that incentivizes teaching newer players.. I don't know, something has to happen. Tried to get my wife and her friend to try 3's and we were instantly deleted and I am not good enough to carry the both of them. They don't want anything to do with pvp anymore, that's sad. Back in the day, when we just had battlegrounds and world pvp, everything was better. You won some, you lost some, but it was always fun.
Its a good point i have never played healer in my life, and am 2.5-2.7 in every xpac besides this one and am 2100-2400 on 6 classes currently, i got hpriest gear and am stomping 1800 lobbies with 0 knowledge on how the spec works or how to heal, i win by basic knowledge on how cds work and how to trade cds , im pushing 2k already with 1 week of playing hpriest and a healer
Inflation needs to really get a revamp. The season usually takes 4-6 months , right? The above average player can still not play for the first half of the season. How is that ok?
I agree there is a problem. People don't want to play 3v3 because blizz punishes you for playing with anyone not close enough to your CR. So no one finds team mates in lfg. You already have enough boxes to check, XP, Gear, Composition... Alot of times if you arent within 30 CR, your not getting invited to a group. Thats a huge problem and blizz should stop punishing people who just want to log in and play 3v3.
You have to remember that wow was originally for casual players. The reason PvP is never going to be "good" again is because it's inherently competitive. PvE content is designed to be cleared but the people on the other arena team are trying to make you lose.
I started playing shuffle last night. Full greens with purp weapon. i went 5-1 and my next que was into 2k, went 3-3. next que 2.2k. 1-5. officially turned off pvp. i was up aagainst people in full gear
im an ex PvP fanatic, i would instantly return to this game if que times improved drastically. we finish work come home and dont have time to wait 30 mins for one pop.
Hey, OP here, no flame, your latest video just made me think about the topic, and ended using you as example, Sorry If looked like i flamed u, big fan and WW main
My friends and I are 1800, every other game is against a team of glads. Theyre fun as we win some of them and we're clearly getting better because of it. However it would be nice to get some rating and climb a bit
IMO solution is easy. Blizzard matchmaking system should take into account not only the current rating of the players, but also their experience in previous seasons For example: You are noob and have 0exp - you play against other noobs who have 0 exp (e.g. with other people who hadn't ever reached 1550) You reached 2k in previous season - you play with 2k exp dudes (similar to other brakepoints, like 1550, 1750, etc.) ofc matchmaking system stays - 2k exp 0 cr can't play against 2k exp 2k cr Experience should be taken into account not on the character, but on the chosen spec (one player can have 3-5 characters of same class)
Win traders are the issue as now it’s low population, there’s a massive issue with it a hole community based around it, I que on my resto sham I play at 2.4 mmr in 2s and when I play shuffle you’ve got dps deliberately not pressing their cds or going on the opposite class you as a team decided to kill then when they vs me it’s like the effort is all in it’s so obvious now it’s killing it for me I tried to call them out some just blatantly admit it the others don’t say a word Que syncing is an issue I’m scared to Que on my dps classes as I’ve been dropped to 1800 but then when I don’t get a trader load of lobby’s I got back up to 2200 gatekeeping and traders is an issue
Last week we went some 3s with my partners (all of us stable rival level, we have been duelists three times) we did 9 games, in 6 there were multi gladiator enemy. I checked every enemy after we finished playing, and we faced 3-5 times gladi players. On 1600 rating. If we need to beat 5x gladi players just to reach 1700, next time we need to beat awc champions to get duelist or what?? I'm not crying, but would be much better to face enemies who are on the same level at least on these "low" ratings...
The reason they are playing there is due to the participation being so low. Numbers down big time and so many just turn their heads away as to the reasons why. Every part of pvp is tilted. Randoms, epics, ratedBG, arena, RSS, Blitz it is all bad.
It’s crazy that’s in 3s this season im playing against mglads and double digit r1s for multiple expacs just to gain 2k cr I’ve decided I’m gonna wait till mmr goes up that way I’ll play against them at a rank that matters so I don’t burn myself out by end of season I don’t mind the sweaty games but it feel underwhelming to have those games at such a low bracket
I see former glads at 2k, but glad is meaningless some seasons. Which is why all pvp titles should go back to percentile based. That fixes most of the issues including staring at a meaningless number. No clue why blizzard thought it was a good idea to make titles a static rating in a system with a variable rating spread. ???
blizzard needs to remove all the addons, at least pvp addons... that will make a huge impact, making it, at least, easy for new players. Also making the spells not so flashy visually so you can tell what spells your opponent used or something like that. Another idea could be making the current addons part of the game so everyone have the same features, making the pvp scene equal for all new or old players.
The why: The game sets you up for failure from the start. UI is trash Flaw with design: need addons to even play.. Normal Bg runs different then ranked. Too many buttons and things to track. Solution: simplify buttons, change bgs, create a better default UI and give a tutorial on binds etc.
@@simondinko6687 i enjoyed all of dragonflight. Solo shuffle was really amazing each season. I honestly havent disliked any Xpac until this one. Its anti PvP stance, And i guess “ policing “ of how people behave in PvE with each other ( suspensions for leaving a dungeon lmao ) was too much When they announced player housing it also dawned on me - Oh, Theres something it took them 20 years to do. I feel if you look for the laziness and push towards dripfeeding content to maintain the subs, You will see it
its the same in 3s, im at 2100-2200 fightin multi r1's. Its fun sometimes, but not everytime. specially when you made a group via LFG (randoms)and theyre a proper team and prolly on discord.
ok, for everyone who is interested in getting elite set and was unable to do it prior. i'll explain how to exploit system to your advantage. it works every season because of the MMR system. at start of the season. get your green pvp gear asap and than play enough to cap out conquest and bloody tokens. do so every week, until the week you have full purple PVP gear. make sure prioritize class/spec stats (like resto shaman is very important to stack all mastery). once you're full conquest gear, you can continue pvping (solo shuffle). try to get as high of rating you can, like 1600-1700 (generally doable, unless you're total noob and dont know your rotation). once you reach your max rating. stop playing that character, that spec, in pvp. wait till blizzard starts inflating MMR, pay attention to season's end, about 3-4 weeks before season ends, you come back on that character and that spec and start playing. Play in prime times (M-F it's 5pm-10 pm, on weekends and holidays varies). prime time is when the pool of players is the biggest and you're likely to have better match making. once you do that, you will be getting like 100 rating jumps for 3/6 wins and you will play with higher mmr players and eventually will dip down to people in half greens still getting rating. within 2-3 4 hours play sessions, you will go from 1500-1800 and have you elite set on EZ, just knowing who to focus and knowing your rotation. as long as MMR systems stays as it is, this will work.
Yesterday i had mage at 900 and im playing around 1900. He did not even use IB first two games. When i told him to start to use it we actually almost got a win. After match i have aked him few things and tried to be polite and friendly he just ignored me lol
Not everything needs to be geared towards casual players. Vanilla and TBC weren't and they were arguably the best versions of the game...from world pvp, to raiding, to leveling, etc.
Let me tell you what happens to me, got my 1950rating in blitz with 43 wins out of 75 games with my dk, playing mmr between 2200/2300, when i lose the game i don't lose rating this help me a lot to work towards my 1950, however my warrior and pally are hardstuck in 1600mmr hell, becausa they always win 1, lose 1. Its impossible to climb because i always lose the same rate that i won. Blizzard should make something like league of legends system
As a 2100 player on 3 toons its funny watching people complain about 1800... but than again I was 2880 in cata snd having trouble at 2k+ now... wierd times Just learn macros and arena 1/2/3 or focus macros... it will boost you 300 rating guarantee
If they brought back faction wars and the competitive attitude it created. Loss of world pvp was a huge hit to part of the pvp player base. Get rid of war mode and the faction love. P V P servers should not have warmode. "Make love not warcraft" direction sucks...
Healing sucks right now because of the mmr constantly going 3-3 dps in greens not using defensive going 0-6 1-5. I run time stop tontry snd save them and do 1mil hps and they still die. Full geared dps and a guy in greens well over his skill cap its a nightmare
Wanted to get my enchant, had some pvp exp but not alot. Won my first shuffle, then went like 5-1 in 2nd and im 2200 now, kekW. Had to lose some ofc, but pretty fast i got my 1950 and went out
got glad every season of bfa/slands and getting 3100cr one season of slands. now i can barely play at 2k. the mmr is non existent partially because of solo shuffle.
The system isnt the issue. The issue is pvp being demanding on new pvp players to the point where you need 50 add ons to track everything that is going on. And then the people that are already good at pvp not helping new players and instead prefering to play with eachother and "collab" to make money off of their constantly shrinking fanbase. The result is new pvp players getting shitstomped because they have no clue what is going on. Mid players being stuck between the bad players who again, have no clue what is going on and the twitch sweatlords that play this game 10 hours a day. High rank players who have no competition and its basically the same people competing for the same ranks all the time be ause nobody else either cares or has a reliable way stay motivated to go from new/bad player to high rank player unless they really really want to be good at pvp. Which is nobody because wow pvp is trash and if you want good pvp experience there is an infinite list of online games that will give you that. With egirls who dm you if you are good as an added bonus We need people with a platform to start building an actual pvp community instead of things like "i reached rank 1 on this spec" where you just go like "yeah ... but would did you even have to compete with ? There's maybe like 2 other players who would care enough about that to compete with you about it"
Protected brackets so healers and now dps can just throw games or dc? No thanks The system already protects these people cuz they can just req or make another alt at 2k. The issue is the folks at that mmr ruining yours, but the real issue is that you yourself are impacted for things out of your control like if one healer decides to go 1-5 or 0-0. You get one 2-4 or 1-5 on the way to your mmr and it sets you back. Vs the 1800-1900-2k mmr will have a way harder time going 1-5 at that mmr cuz they can be carried or bounce back right away without crashing rating
The reverse is horrible to. You're 2300+ and have double 1600 rogs on your team. You get 0 caps 0 kills and 12-20mil damage on a 5 base map from them.. Htf am I suppose to carry these scrubs..
It is time they created divisions linked to SR and bin off MMR. It works for every other game. And if there is like 4 divisions and somebody creates a second MW / there main being top division / maybe they start one tier below.
the, but who is the community.....? the 50 nerd streamers that play this game for a living? what about the million other people who have school, job and etc.... they dont even have time to partake in the community bs. it's was the top 1% of nerds asking for this, they are the loudest minority. and blizz was like, Yeah, makes sense, let's ruing the game for 2 million of the remaining players base that does not partake in community polls
@Asmodeius streamers didnt ask for wow , that millón other people You criying for ,were the ones that wanted pvp to be slow so suck it now , You guys said so many.shit about sl that blizzard deleted that beatiful Game Style
The endless cycle of complaining about queue times and and balance as if these things aren't directly related. Matchmaking systems require time and an active population of players at all ranks to create balanced games. If you don't want to wait in long queues (far long than what they currently are), then you aren't going to see any change in matchmaking balance. If you increase the queue times, people will stop queueing and suddenly you've killed your game. This is a mathematic scheduling problem, not a gameplay or new player problem. The population of people playing PvP is simply too few and too top heavy in terms of experience. Without new players, which there are few, this is an unsolvable problem.
you guys can't see the rootcause here. if blizzard will make any of suggested changes the SS que time will jump up to 30-60 minutes. that will get to 1-2 hours on the high rates. THEN you will cry in comments because you can never q up since it takes way too long and PVP will eventually die. in order to make a good mmr system you need... drum roll...MORE PLAYERS. That's the problem here. Bring more people first, then fix mmr system. right now people prefer to suffer on hardcore classic rather than PVP on the retail, and that has nothing to do with mmr system.
My boy read a post on reddit and made a video that's only 4 minutes long, even he's giving up.
It's largely because the only people left PvPing, especially arenas, are people who play all day for a living on Twitch or have played since a time when it was more active. There's no influx of new players and hasn't been for some time. And there's virtually no chance of it being fixed anytime soon. All they can do is start making changes for the next major patch or expansion.
The barrier to entry for World of Warcraft PvP is staggering, compared to most games out there. If they want to get new players playing, they're going to have to allow a tournament-like style game mode on the live servers that any player can access; literally straight into max-level and have all the gear options. Legion templates were as close as we got, but kind of limited customization. In essence, retire gear-farming and eliminate the gear excuse; more important for starts of seasons rather than later.
As for `training`. New accounts are all put into the same training bracket based on honor level of the account. This already exists for Random Battlegrounds. For those that don't know, accounts between 1-50 honor level are placed into their own bracket unless they queue with someone higher; ie, premade.
War Mode: For those that say they'd like to keep gearing in PvP, why not keep it for War Mode? And make War Mode more competitive for outdoor item-level. Providing that sense of power progression.
Rated brackets: Retire gear progression entirely. Overhaul MMR system to also take into account honor level up to honor level 500. Many new players will never even touch a veteran arena player regardless of the character they're playing on that battle.net account, for quite some time, but should one become some sort of prodigy, an exceptional rank in rated should bypass it. After 500, arena ranking acts on its own.
There's a lot solutions to this, what I'd consider a pretty basic problem: The entire system is outdated.
so all this is correct. not to mention that there is a pool of mid players. who are above causals and new players yet below gladiators and streamers. the system in season 4 of dragonflight was way more linient. so was in season 3. but than the super players, Gladiators, they complained how their queue times are 40 mins + and how they always play the same 1000 players. some come TWW, blizzard fixed it in a way. the queues became better. But at what cost? exactly those glad playes are now being thrown into the mix of 1500-1800 MMR player pool. how i knows this. i pvped every season last expack and got multiple 1800 and pushed 2100 a few times. after initial few weeks in start of the season, and especially after conquest cap was lifted. playing in 1500-1800 was very easy, almost joyful and you NEVER was a glad/pro player, except for an occasional booster. in TWW, we're like 12-13 weeks into the season. im pushing my shaman for elite set, im at 1700, every lobby i see a glad player, and i OFTEN see super good players who literally trash on everyone in the lobby and go 6/6. not to mention that the queue times did get better, but not for people in 1500-1800 MMR. im at 1920 on feral right now, my queues are about the same as of 1500. meanwhile all 4 seasons of last xpack, on my toons i pushed 2100, queue times past 1800, were 30-40 mins.
yes the only fix to this problem is for blizzard to create an arena Only game. gl with that ever happening
This is a problem for the game as a whole. WoW is just not a good game for new players.
I totally agree. Guildwars 2 did a good job with PvP gear templates/pvp only servers - it would be great for wow. I also think that having some kind of AI arena training option would be great too - kind of like the AI dungeon thing they have now but with different degrees of difficulty
Bro wrote a novel then said its a simple problem 😂
It's so frustrating to pvp in the 1500-1800 range. Almost every other game is against someone who is 2400
100%. A month into the season (so after all the pros had time to climb higher ranking), a friend and I did some 2s. We got trashed at 1500-1700 range by multi-glad or multi-elite 'alts' in legit half the games we played. It was misery and my friend quit trying. I got my 1800 in SS =(
And yeah some will say 2s isn't a real bracket but the reality is high-ranking players have such long ass queues for matches that they come troll in low ratings to get some games going. Or at least it's what it feels like
you know i had a free day i thought maybe why not q up some shuffle in my disc at 10 in the morning - huge mistakes fought 2 rank 1 palyers in a row which made me only win 2 rounds lost like 70 rating in 20 mins :D
Just not true at all. There aren't r1s or good players at the 1500 or 1800 range, unless they are carrying a friend. Most people will win their ways out of the rat leagues. You're just not good at the game. Which is funny because this game is about as easy as operating a fisher price toy.
@@prod7906pull/20
@@prod7906yeah, and there’s a lot of people carrying their friends
Every match I play theres at least 1 guy with glad mounts xD
Source: Just trust me bro!
@@prod7906 Nah waht he says its true, even if he didnt give a source
@@prod7906 He's right tho..
@@Zetherior Idk, I'm not a rat who's hardstuck at the bottom of the barrel. But good players don't get stuck at 1500 or 1800 because if they were good, the mmr + inflation would put them where they belong. So I find it highly unlikely that every player at rat league levels has a glad mount. If they did then their playing a new character in which case you should be able to beat them anyway because of a gear advantage. Just get good.
@@prod7906 Missing the point man, the volume of glad players who are just passing through on ladder represents a portion of regular players matches, lets say 10% of their games have a glad who's just passing through on their way to 2.5k+.. well thats taking the normal players winrate and knocking it down by 10% assuming the glads passing through were winning as they should.. so if you take a normal players winrate at any rating and auto-lose 10% of their games, well now they will plateau at a lower rating than if those glad players were not passing through.
Glads passing through = lower plateau rating for everyone else.
That's the point.
It's like being stuck in the slow lane of a highway because there's an endless stream of racers coming down the fast lane, you have to give way because they're faster than you.
There is no New Players.
Subscription model has to go
Calm down @@austinstubetv
I'm new
@@jameskim1505 WoW has surpassed peak WoTlK sub numbers in the last year or two. The sub model obviously doesn't hold the game back.
@@jacksonlittle5993 It it hasnt. it peaked at 7 mil this year, which is amazing. Peak was 12m during the first month of Cata.
I was playing SS at around 2050-2100 at the end of Dragonflight and now im stuggling to get my 1800 sets. Feels pretty bad man.
Same here bro, in fact after getting the 2 sets i wanted most i just stopped trying 😂
Let me guess you were dh in dragons flight lol
How are you struggling to get a 1800 set when your mmr starts at 1800? If your jumping into solo shuffle in green there's more of an issue there then just skill.
I was always trying the entire season to get 1950+ every expansion until I tried solo rbgs, got the rating first week easy and fun and left pvp for good it’s wasted I’m trying raiding now much more fun
@@JB-rb3jkyou start at 1800mmr but 0 rating. You have to get 1800 rating by going 3:3 up till 1,400 rating and then going 4:2 at least to get to 1,800 rating. If you’re starting in green honor gear, you can for sure struggle, especially if you’re new
Good job identifying the problem, ruki! You are making lemonade from rotten lemons. I tried with all my heart, but after 19 years of only playing wow pvp, I see very clearly that Blizzard really doesn't appreciate our time and money. I have moved on for now with the hope that things will get better. However, I think I'm just optimistic that they will
I am at 2.1 rating in solo shuffle and EVERYONE in my lobbies have dragonflight 3s glad mount which was already quite hard to get then. It is really crazy…
We've been identifying the problem for years man.. NOBODY is getting paid to fix the problem.
well not to be that guy but... retail wow in general is awful for new players
Sad but true. Leveling alts via bgs used to be fun now it's a total shit show with twinks everywhere & gear gaps. Max level pvp is overly bloated & complicated. If they don't cater to casuals & new players even more (@ least tww is better than SL for gearing etc) the pvp population will keep dwindling.. clearly they don't care about pvp lol. Ugh.
@@EthCepher pve is also overly bloated and complicated. Bloating and complication is how bad game designers imagine they keep their jobs.
I decided to play a new healer and was learning the class, after getting full honor gear i decided to do solo que - obviously i wasnt fully aware of the class but people were so nasty to me and told me they were at 2k mmr.. i literally JUST started
this is another problem blizzard created. back in older expacks you started at the bottom (starter) MMR and than had to climb. now you start with high mmr and lose till you reach MMR where you win rate is about 50%, after you reach that stage, mmr starts to function properly and you "supposedly" get players of your skill. except, when you get matched with players of your level, you barely get any points, and when you lose, you lose about double, making it impossible to climb. but this blizzard did, so the pros and boosters wouldnt just go into arena with fresh, starter MMR" and stop on casuals all the way to 2k. which still happens.
@@Asmodeiusmy boy you wrote that very eloquently . Way better than my novel above. You're absolutely right.
It's also funny seeing folks at 2k+ mmr starting or even the r1s at like 2400-2500 mmr go 3-3 winning 80-150 pts to 2500 . Meanwhile ur mmr starting at 1700 if you have ONE game worse than 3-3 getting to your mmr it really sets you back 😂 cuz now ur stuck with the 1600s
my problem is.. creating a glad mount and only 0,0018% are able to obtain it. I hope it will change in a way that MultiR1 will play at 3,2-3,4 k for the titel and not at 2,4 for the mount. Thanks for the videos!
I played casually during BFA and got 2200+, but TWW feels like 2200+ at 1800ish, which is wild. One day of arena and I'm already fighting the top players on the ladder? Being gated from rewards sucks, but I also don't have the time (or care) to play this old washed game 24/7 to comepete at the level of a small group of turbo nerds. I canceled my sub, much rather play new games than be pvp fodder to the 1%. I have 0 faith in Blizzard fixing anything ever, especially now that they're owned by Microsoft.
This post is so true. I hit 1800 in the first 2 weeks of the season starting, and my god it was fun seeing some bigger names in my shuffles. Then I took a break. Just came back and starting to pvp with alts and I find it fun to face players who are at a higher skill. You can learn a lot from their positioning and more. Though I do find it frustrating. Just recently started to heal (first time) and play a caster (first time) and damn... I have never had to work so hard to get a win.
The rating system must be scrapped entirely, along with the rewards system.
I can go farm old Mythics to get transmog, so it's obvious I should be able to do the same in PvP, even if it means a lot of grinding.
Every single player should be able to get the rewards-not the 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% that play this game 12 hours a day for the last 15 years.
100% agree. they need to ditch e-sports and mindset behind it. everyone should get everything, given they put in time.
Nah this defeats the purpose. As long as the things you get are cosmetic they should be locked afterwards
I hate how they nuked WPvP in TWW. In DF you had so much more how to spend you Bloodtokens and that PvP World set was awesome. In TWW you can even use blood tokens for Bloodstones. It would be cool if you could buy some moutns or special WPVP cometics outside that one set. They really need to focus more on this.
I'm just sad how one sided it is in WPVP. Every chest has gone to alliance outside of maybe 3 instances. Could be my server though.
The 30 min que simulator is killing the game. I mean, i get home from work, playing with my kids, putting them to sleep, now time is at 8. I que for solo que, 2400 on my lock and it takes 30 min.. so in 1 hour i get to play 1 round of arena.. i mean, why would i do this?
this is because they added solo q to the game. before, in bfa and slands you would just que with ur team and within 1 hour you'd have 10-20 games played maybe even more. solo q ruined the game while people like venruki and others praise solo q. solo q is only good if ques are less than 5 minutes. gg wow
Soloq was fine s1 df. It was popular and succeeded the changes after broke it.
they fixed it for you brosky, in dragonflight queues above 2100 were like hour long.
You have to also recognize your own limitations. You chose to have kids and limit your time. That and at 2400 you are a great pvper and there's less people for you to fight.
@Davidhenry1210 so ppl who have kids aren't allowed to have a hobby? 😂
@2:10 honestly none of what I've heard makes any sense. This is how ELO works, and it has to work that way. Also, ELO works really well. Go start a new chess account on lichess. Win your first game. Watch your ELO go from 1500 to 1750. Your K-value is still high though, if you lose your next game you're going to drop quite a bit. As your play more games your K-value drops and the wins and losses are less impactful.
You want the system to be this way. If instead you started with low K-values, at this time, we probably still wouldn't see a 2500 rated player in any bracket. If you lowered the K-value, you really would start seeing high levels players getting stuck for periods of time in low brackets. Absolutely. There's just too much variance in solo shuffle.
Starting with a high K-value is important for the system to stabilize everyone as close to their true rating as quickly as possible.
Also, many high-ranked players just smurf to beat noobs or lower their ranks to sell carries. I tried to do some 2s with a friend a few week ago and about 35% of our matches were against smurfs and carries. This has to go before new players start coming in.
the inflation part. if anything, it helps the glad players more than anybody else. because without MMR inflation, the pool of players in 2100-2400 bracket would be insanely small and all the glad players would have like 2-3 hour long queues. Now inflation puts some casuals and semi pro players there so the glads could leech the rating off of them and carry over from 2380 to 2400 and get their reward. Without inflation, once you play enough games and placed into your rightful skill MMR, the game is over for you. because at that point climbing is impossible, you would to be literally walking on thread mill, winning 2 lobbies, getting 5 and 4 points, than losing a lobby, losing 20 points. this is how system is designed. and the higher in rating you climb, the less points you get for the win and more you lose for the loss, to the point where winning 5/6 lobby gives you like 3 points .
Retail needs a pvp server.. just 1.. just a single pvp server.. for pvpers.
And free server transfers to escape the pve prisons.
it would be istant full with 20 min ques time only to enter, but i get what u mean, playerbase too splitted in different version of the game
@@T.A.O-f9v Being full proves my point that we need one.. to show blizzard that the demand exists and that they were wrong about warmode.
i dont think that would address arena problems whatsoever
Retail pvp design is dogshit and class designs are so bad it's not even funny. You can be a multi glad/r1 and lose 1v1 to someone that is drooling on keyboard just because they pressed 123 and out pve'd. There is so little play and outplay on retail now.
@@wowwt yep
Its not awful for new players @Venruki. Its awful for anyone who isn't capable of getting in the top few percentage of players. The gulf of skill and knowledge is so massive and unlikely to improve because the game feels completely different going from average player to experienced to high performaning player that you don't get enough games against the better players to learn from them.
QUESTION! did anyone even notice how, or rather at what cost did blizzard reduced the queue times for DPS in solo shuffle? that was one of biggest complains in dragonflight. cause i did and i'll explain what they did, because i pvped like a mad man last 4 seasons. queue times were about the same all dragonflight, so we'll take just season 4 as example. the queue times at 1500 mmr, were about 15 mins on average and didn't really go up too high until 1800 (rating at which most people dropped off after taking their set) after 1800, queue times were like 30-40 mins and at 2000+ over a hour, no idea how bad it was at 2400, never reached it. now fast forward to TWW, season 1. 1500 rating, queue times about 11mins, 1800 about 20 mins and 2000, about 40 mins. the reduction happened in 2 steps/stages. Stage 1: the reduction at high rating, because glad players were waiting 1-2 hours for a match, blizzard literally lowered MMR requirement for their brackets, so now you often see glads in lobbies of as low as 1800 mmr. Stage 2: they literally made matches faster. so if before the fight would start with 20-30 sec window of people finding a good moment to have a GO (burst), they exchanged bursts, this is where they would burn their 2 min cds. Usually easy stage, and than no one dies, 2nd time the CDs are up at about minute 4 of the fight, the 2nd GO happens and one team ends up losing. the 3 min CDs if Used right off the bat, you would get them 2nd time before fight is over. So fights on average were 4 about mins, sometimes 5. Now, in TWW, the 3 min CDs, if you use it right of the bat, you wont get it back 2nd time before match ends. most matches end before 3 minute mark. your 2 min CDs, you get them back 50% of the time, only if you figure out your GO in first 10 seconds of the match and healer makes good trades. average fight time is about 2 minutes 30 seconds. They gave people more damage and now fights are way shorter. so this speeds up the rate at which healers come out of the lobby and ready to again. speeding up the queue.
btw, if anyone says that blizzard improved queue times in dragonflight by introducing extra rewards for healers. that didn't help, no one wanted extra conquest, people wanted extra rating for cosmetic rewards. at first it looked like a good idea, but at the end of the day, you just realized that you hit conquest cap much faster and end up stopping, and when cap unlocked, you didnt even care for extra conquest you got by playing a healer. if anything, it only made healers queue less, because they reached cap faster. And right now playing a healer is just a shit show.
Hey Ven, respectfully for you to say we don't get paid for solutions is a bit of a cop out. You're one of the most successful WoW PvP streamers, you do commentary for AWC: you can absolutely provide feedback and suggestions - like you literally did as well as bring up other points you agree with - to Blizzard to try and at least get a dialogue going.
I just started playing shuffle with my war. Got in there full honor gear. Had to wait 20-30 min to get grouped with full conq players. Ended 4th or less in 4 games. But still climbed from 1000 to 1700 rating. Shows how broken the system is.
Playing as a healer is even worse these days. You’re constantly blamed by DPS for their bad positioning or poor defensive usage. On top of that, you’re up against Gladiators on their 10th alt because they need to stream and can’t do that with hour-long queues at 2400+ rating. Meanwhile, you lose 40 rating for going 2-4. It’s just rinse and repeat.
No thank you, I’ll play other games.
Same with the lottery of battlegrounds blitz if you are not a good FC that can carry games on your own. The grind is just too much without fun games.
I truly believe they need to get rid of mmr and make a flat rate increase/decrease. Currently, you don't lose rating under 1200 unless you really bomb. I play RBGs, so I'll use those numbers as an example. Under 1200, if you win, you get 192 rating. So that should be the flat rate under 1200. From 1200-1400 cut that in half (96) 1400-1600 cut that in half (48) 1600-1800 cut that in half (24). 1800+ would be the ball park you generally get if you win.. 12-15. A loss would be almost equal to that flat rate rating. Maybe a few points off + or - so it gives rating variance.
As you raise and drop between those ratings, flat rate adjusts to what ever bracket you are in. AND, the real win is, if you lose several games in a row, when you finally win, you actually get rating and not just 0 cause your mmr is below your cr! This is especially for blitz. I hit 2462 then kept getting crappy lobbies. Cr went to 2200, mmr went to 2000. I finally won, and zero rating. Lost the next game, lost 15 more. Why play at that point? This may not be a fix all, but it's better than the current one.
I guess i'm all for the 2400 in my 1800 games. idk. I enjoy learning from my defeats especially at THE HIGEST LEVEL which is what we all sort of dream of. We've played wow for way too long and even endured The Maw. PvP has always had issues because its a PVE game. We are the minority. Suck it up. It wont change. PvE players out match us by like 15 to 1. This is a business and they will cater to the deepest pockets they can.
Idk, wow PvP is fun as hell now more than ever imo. Group up with friends and it's a blast.
I'm newish to pvp. I've gotten duelist in the past. But this season is the first time I've really focused on learning and tried to join the ranks of gladiator. I'm hard stuck 2.1 SS. Every single game above 2k I'm the only gut out of the 6 players without a glad mount. I have maybe 5k rounds played in all brackets. Most gladiator players have 50k+ games. We want a new ranking system!
I have two warriors and an hunter.... Started playing shuffle and got 1800-1900 lobbies at literally 0cr.
Even after some wins and about 1000cr i got like 2100-2200 lobbies... It's crazy
I had a bizarre anomaly this week, jumped on my warrior and queued as prot, got in the shuffle at 1525 MMR? Could tanks not be getting inflation?
Possibly stating the obvious here but you can't have good matchmaking if there are no players to choose from. Instead of reinventing the matchmaking system the real question that should be asked is: "why is no one participating in pvp?"
Poor matchmaking is a symptom, not the cause.
need more incentives for pvp. better elite sets, better weapon illusions, more and better looking mounts. in shadowlands pvers were forced to pvp for their bis trinket and the game had tons of people playing. i dont mind a system that forced pvers and pvpers to get 1 bis item from the respective area of the game.
We have this problem because of alts but Blizz wants to encourage this so I don't have a solution, but could be better if every player is allowed to create 1 char for every spec (3-4 max every class) and only the best for every class is calculated in a competitive ladder. In this case one player can't be the n1, n2, n3, n4 and so on, in a specific class/spec. We need to realize that some players bring 20 alts in the first 25 position in the ladder... this happens also at lower cr.
Completely agree. 1500-1800 is HELL right now. Its a lottery of frustration.
it's awful for everybody, or for 99% of people. it should be like a battle pass, you play, you get shit, no skip tier. should not be a ladder.
Should have account wide ratings or something, the gap in the top and bottom is ridiculously big.
Although the idea of rating brackets is nice (2:55), the queue times would be astronomical so I don't think that'd work.
I do want to say, he mentions he doesn't want to sit in hour q's on his main and that sucks, but qing into people who aren't at your level is just going to keep removing people from the game. I've played against pikaboo multiple times while just trying to get my elite set. I love watching you, pika, and other wow streamers I quit pvp a few seasons back just felt hopeless. I've been 2380 in 3s back in BFA was 2900 in the Wrath classic "I prefer classic style". But, in all brackets there are elite players, "who are on their 4th alt" because they don't want to sit in q's and it's not their fault like Ven said blizzard has it setup like that. However, it does kill people like me who just want to try and push glad and are fighting R1 players at 1800. My buddy has a website he used that would track alt's and one of the games he got into was against a R1 DK on his 8th alt DK not even a new character he just loved playing his DK. Honestly, I think the top end players should be struggling not the lower rank people and what I mean is similar to what Venruki said in one of his videos the 1500-2200 players are the ones that need to be happy for PVP to even exist. They need to lock R1 players to the top q's regardless of if it's an alt or not they should be the ones dealing with inconveniencing problems like q times not the majority of the player base. I like the idea of locking your account to a certain range so if your main is 2500 your alt of a different class should be lock at 2200 or something. I'm sure Ven would agree he goes into a new class with a much higher skill cap than some of the people maining that class for 8 years and stuck at 1800.
Unrated pvp is AWFUL for new and casual players. That's the real issue imho. Pvp is bloated & way too complicated. These arena streamers don’t get it.
Do u ever get tired of repeating this issue over and over for years??? They dont care about pvp. Its a pve game boss. Pvp is a after thought for them. We been complaining about same shit for years and all they did was give us pvp vendor and a new bg lmfao
"I'm not going to sit 1 hour Q's because I want to play the game"
He's right, but if they forced locked brackets, any rank 1 that wanted to play the game on any alt would be at the correct rating and the long Q problem would be instantly solved for them. GG
Can confirm, had a new pres evoker I wanted to learn. Did ss, went 6-0. The next 7 ss ques i did ranged from 2k-2.2k. I would win 1/6 and get my 100 cr meanwhile the the other healer who went 5/6 gained less than I did.
As an old 2.2k+ player i stopped playing because pvp raiting etc is such trash +(balancing)
its not just pvp. pve is also very difficult to get into.
its nothing like vanilla or tbc where everythings straight forward. there's a piece of gear. you go get it. there isn't enormous ilvl inflation between seasons, people in karazhan while other people are in black temple but everyone still feels roughly as powerful, at least you can confidently attack them and not feel like youre 3 tiers behind.
i think we just have to accept that Retail is a seasonal experience now. it's not an expansion-wide experience. you log in, do your thing for 5 or 6 weeks and then go play the other 6 versions of WoW.
4:09 to the end is nice, never knew why Ven played so many classes, its the queue times, interesting and the learning ofcourse, and it definately makes the commentating easier i'd imagine, so its a ++, hehe
What about having leagues? You have an entry league and you can't get out of it, or you are pushed out of it, once or until you have a won a certain number of matches. I think getting pushed out is key, otherwise you get twinks. We need training grounds that are worth your time, they must have worthwhile rewards, and we need a mentoring system that incentivizes teaching newer players.. I don't know, something has to happen. Tried to get my wife and her friend to try 3's and we were instantly deleted and I am not good enough to carry the both of them. They don't want anything to do with pvp anymore, that's sad. Back in the day, when we just had battlegrounds and world pvp, everything was better. You won some, you lost some, but it was always fun.
Its a good point i have never played healer in my life, and am 2.5-2.7 in every xpac besides this one and am 2100-2400 on 6 classes currently, i got hpriest gear and am stomping 1800 lobbies with 0 knowledge on how the spec works or how to heal, i win by basic knowledge on how cds work and how to trade cds , im pushing 2k already with 1 week of playing hpriest and a healer
Inflation needs to really get a revamp. The season usually takes 4-6 months , right? The above average player can still not play for the first half of the season. How is that ok?
Me and almost half of Greek pvp community are out, can't deal with this shit mmr anymore, gg!
I agree there is a problem. People don't want to play 3v3 because blizz punishes you for playing with anyone not close enough to your CR. So no one finds team mates in lfg. You already have enough boxes to check, XP, Gear, Composition... Alot of times if you arent within 30 CR, your not getting invited to a group. Thats a huge problem and blizz should stop punishing people who just want to log in and play 3v3.
You have to remember that wow was originally for casual players. The reason PvP is never going to be "good" again is because it's inherently competitive. PvE content is designed to be cleared but the people on the other arena team are trying to make you lose.
Who's more important... the person who has to identify the problem... or the person who has to solve the problem?
I started playing shuffle last night. Full greens with purp weapon. i went 5-1 and my next que was into 2k, went 3-3. next que 2.2k. 1-5. officially turned off pvp. i was up aagainst people in full gear
im an ex PvP fanatic, i would instantly return to this game if que times improved drastically. we finish work come home and dont have time to wait 30 mins for one pop.
Hey, OP here, no flame, your latest video just made me think about the topic, and ended using you as example, Sorry If looked like i flamed u, big fan and WW main
My friends and I are 1800, every other game is against a team of glads. Theyre fun as we win some of them and we're clearly getting better because of it. However it would be nice to get some rating and climb a bit
IMO solution is easy. Blizzard matchmaking system should take into account not only the current rating of the players, but also their experience in previous seasons
For example:
You are noob and have 0exp - you play against other noobs who have 0 exp (e.g. with other people who hadn't ever reached 1550)
You reached 2k in previous season - you play with 2k exp dudes (similar to other brakepoints, like 1550, 1750, etc.)
ofc matchmaking system stays - 2k exp 0 cr can't play against 2k exp 2k cr
Experience should be taken into account not on the character, but on the chosen spec (one player can have 3-5 characters of same class)
Win traders are the issue as now it’s low population, there’s a massive issue with it a hole community based around it, I que on my resto sham I play at 2.4 mmr in 2s and when I play shuffle you’ve got dps deliberately not pressing their cds or going on the opposite class you as a team decided to kill then when they vs me it’s like the effort is all in it’s so obvious now it’s killing it for me I tried to call them out some just blatantly admit it the others don’t say a word Que syncing is an issue I’m scared to Que on my dps classes as I’ve been dropped to 1800 but then when I don’t get a trader load of lobby’s I got back up to 2200 gatekeeping and traders is an issue
Last week we went some 3s with my partners (all of us stable rival level, we have been duelists three times) we did 9 games, in 6 there were multi gladiator enemy. I checked every enemy after we finished playing, and we faced 3-5 times gladi players. On 1600 rating. If we need to beat 5x gladi players just to reach 1700, next time we need to beat awc champions to get duelist or what?? I'm not crying, but would be much better to face enemies who are on the same level at least on these "low" ratings...
The reason they are playing there is due to the participation being so low.
Numbers down big time and so many just turn their heads away as to the reasons why.
Every part of pvp is tilted. Randoms, epics, ratedBG, arena, RSS, Blitz it is all bad.
Ven. The state of this game is terrible right now
It’s crazy that’s in 3s this season im playing against mglads and double digit r1s for multiple expacs just to gain 2k cr I’ve decided I’m gonna wait till mmr goes up that way I’ll play against them at a rank that matters so I don’t burn myself out by end of season I don’t mind the sweaty games but it feel underwhelming to have those games at such a low bracket
BRO PLS DONT STOP MAKING VIDEOS ABOUT RETAIL PVP , I LOVE YOU SO MUCH THAT YOU GIVE RETAIL PVP THE ATTENTION THAT HOPEFULLY THEY DO SOMTH ABOUT IT!!!
I see former glads at 2k, but glad is meaningless some seasons. Which is why all pvp titles should go back to percentile based. That fixes most of the issues including staring at a meaningless number. No clue why blizzard thought it was a good idea to make titles a static rating in a system with a variable rating spread. ???
blizzard needs to remove all the addons, at least pvp addons... that will make a huge impact, making it, at least, easy for new players. Also making the spells not so flashy visually so you can tell what spells your opponent used or something like that.
Another idea could be making the current addons part of the game so everyone have the same features, making the pvp scene equal for all new or old players.
The why: The game sets you up for failure from the start.
UI is trash
Flaw with design: need addons to even play..
Normal Bg runs different then ranked.
Too many buttons and things to track.
Solution: simplify buttons, change bgs, create a better default UI and give a tutorial on binds etc.
70k hours in and i quit in WW - If you're reading this, consider doing the same
It doesn't get better
yeah wows time is done, after the introduction of solo q, rbgs and 3v3 has completely died. rip wow 2004-2022 (dragonflight)
I mean dragonflight was bad at start and got better every season
70k bro?
no way
70k hours ? nah you must be joking that's almost 8 years of time played.
@@simondinko6687 i enjoyed all of dragonflight. Solo shuffle was really amazing each season. I honestly havent disliked any Xpac until this one. Its anti PvP stance, And i guess “ policing “ of how people behave in PvE with each other ( suspensions for leaving a dungeon lmao ) was too much
When they announced player housing it also dawned on me - Oh, Theres something it took them 20 years to do. I feel if you look for the laziness and push towards dripfeeding content to maintain the subs, You will see it
its the same in 3s, im at 2100-2200 fightin multi r1's. Its fun sometimes, but not everytime. specially when you made a group via LFG (randoms)and theyre a proper team and prolly on discord.
ok, for everyone who is interested in getting elite set and was unable to do it prior. i'll explain how to exploit system to your advantage. it works every season because of the MMR system. at start of the season. get your green pvp gear asap and than play enough to cap out conquest and bloody tokens. do so every week, until the week you have full purple PVP gear. make sure prioritize class/spec stats (like resto shaman is very important to stack all mastery). once you're full conquest gear, you can continue pvping (solo shuffle). try to get as high of rating you can, like 1600-1700 (generally doable, unless you're total noob and dont know your rotation). once you reach your max rating. stop playing that character, that spec, in pvp. wait till blizzard starts inflating MMR, pay attention to season's end, about 3-4 weeks before season ends, you come back on that character and that spec and start playing. Play in prime times (M-F it's 5pm-10 pm, on weekends and holidays varies). prime time is when the pool of players is the biggest and you're likely to have better match making. once you do that, you will be getting like 100 rating jumps for 3/6 wins and you will play with higher mmr players and eventually will dip down to people in half greens still getting rating. within 2-3 4 hours play sessions, you will go from 1500-1800 and have you elite set on EZ, just knowing who to focus and knowing your rotation. as long as MMR systems stays as it is, this will work.
source: i made that shit up because im delusional af
second source: trust me bro
Yesterday i had mage at 900 and im playing around 1900. He did not even use IB first two games. When i told him to start to use it we actually almost got a win. After match i have aked him few things and tried to be polite and friendly he just ignored me lol
Not everything needs to be geared towards casual players. Vanilla and TBC weren't and they were arguably the best versions of the game...from world pvp, to raiding, to leveling, etc.
Let me tell you what happens to me, got my 1950rating in blitz with 43 wins out of 75 games with my dk, playing mmr between 2200/2300, when i lose the game i don't lose rating this help me a lot to work towards my 1950, however my warrior and pally are hardstuck in 1600mmr hell, becausa they always win 1, lose 1. Its impossible to climb because i always lose the same rate that i won. Blizzard should make something like league of legends system
"we are not paid to make the solution"
Even worse, we pay them.... so we should have a democratic way to find solutions.
Ah yes as predicted several videos back, the spiral begins.
There aren't new players as much as the kids of original players inherited their parents accounts.
That’s why on all alts I just hit 1800 for the transmog and call it there, back to bgs for me
Even Korraks revenge now has qeue synced premades full of glads. Just a quick update on the non-existence of qeue syncing. EU btw.
As a 2100 player on 3 toons its funny watching people complain about 1800... but than again I was 2880 in cata snd having trouble at 2k+ now... wierd times
Just learn macros and arena 1/2/3 or focus macros... it will boost you 300 rating guarantee
It shouldn’t be difficult to make a curved inflation equation.
If they brought back faction wars and the competitive attitude it created. Loss of world pvp was a huge hit to part of the pvp player base. Get rid of war mode and the faction love. P V P servers should not have warmode. "Make love not warcraft" direction sucks...
Just let that game die
Why are you watching videos about the game? lol
@@maagi1 probably because he recently quit and wants to see what happens with the game so he watchs venrukis videos
@@PeterTheDeleter If he wants game to die, why would he care what happens with it?
Jesus it’s my first season of PvP and I’m 1800 on two characters, nice ego boost 👍
Hi bots 👋
It's like trying to play Chess for the first time against a grand master, unless you can treat this game like a full time job your getting nowhere.
Healing sucks right now because of the mmr constantly going 3-3 dps in greens not using defensive going 0-6 1-5. I run time stop tontry snd save them and do 1mil hps and they still die. Full geared dps and a guy in greens well over his skill cap its a nightmare
Wanted to get my enchant, had some pvp exp but not alot. Won my first shuffle, then went like 5-1 in 2nd and im 2200 now, kekW. Had to lose some ofc, but pretty fast i got my 1950 and went out
Mmr in wow made me quit. The last straw was was at 1800 I got 10 games in a row against multi glads looking at their check pvp in a row.
got glad every season of bfa/slands and getting 3100cr one season of slands. now i can barely play at 2k. the mmr is non existent partially because of solo shuffle.
The system isnt the issue.
The issue is pvp being demanding on new pvp players to the point where you need 50 add ons to track everything that is going on. And then the people that are already good at pvp not helping new players and instead prefering to play with eachother and "collab" to make money off of their constantly shrinking fanbase.
The result is new pvp players getting shitstomped because they have no clue what is going on.
Mid players being stuck between the bad players who again, have no clue what is going on and the twitch sweatlords that play this game 10 hours a day.
High rank players who have no competition and its basically the same people competing for the same ranks all the time be ause nobody else either cares or has a reliable way stay motivated to go from new/bad player to high rank player unless they really really want to be good at pvp. Which is nobody because wow pvp is trash and if you want good pvp experience there is an infinite list of online games that will give you that. With egirls who dm you if you are good as an added bonus
We need people with a platform to start building an actual pvp community instead of things like "i reached rank 1 on this spec" where you just go like "yeah ... but would did you even have to compete with ? There's maybe like 2 other players who would care enough about that to compete with you about it"
Protected brackets so healers and now dps can just throw games or dc? No thanks
The system already protects these people cuz they can just req or make another alt at 2k.
The issue is the folks at that mmr ruining yours, but the real issue is that you yourself are impacted for things out of your control like if one healer decides to go 1-5 or 0-0.
You get one 2-4 or 1-5 on the way to your mmr and it sets you back. Vs the 1800-1900-2k mmr will have a way harder time going 1-5 at that mmr cuz they can be carried or bounce back right away without crashing rating
The reverse is horrible to. You're 2300+ and have double 1600 rogs on your team. You get 0 caps 0 kills and 12-20mil damage on a 5 base map from them.. Htf am I suppose to carry these scrubs..
It is time they created divisions linked to SR and bin off MMR.
It works for every other game.
And if there is like 4 divisions and somebody creates a second MW / there main being top division / maybe they start one tier below.
Haha, funny Snupy is mentioned here. I had him doing this to me and my mate a few months ago.
Ill tell you why blizzard doesn’t do anything. They don’t care, PvP is probably less than 1% of their player base.
The worst thing is that community asked for pvp to be like this lol and now they hate it 😂
the, but who is the community.....? the 50 nerd streamers that play this game for a living? what about the million other people who have school, job and etc.... they dont even have time to partake in the community bs. it's was the top 1% of nerds asking for this, they are the loudest minority. and blizz was like, Yeah, makes sense, let's ruing the game for 2 million of the remaining players base that does not partake in community polls
@Asmodeius streamers didnt ask for wow , that millón other people You criying for ,were the ones that wanted pvp to be slow so suck it now , You guys said so many.shit about sl that blizzard deleted that beatiful Game Style
Going into SS in WPVP gear/greens bc you saw AWC players do it is griefing bc you start at like 1900 now.
The endless cycle of complaining about queue times and and balance as if these things aren't directly related.
Matchmaking systems require time and an active population of players at all ranks to create balanced games. If you don't want to wait in long queues (far long than what they currently are), then you aren't going to see any change in matchmaking balance. If you increase the queue times, people will stop queueing and suddenly you've killed your game.
This is a mathematic scheduling problem, not a gameplay or new player problem. The population of people playing PvP is simply too few and too top heavy in terms of experience. Without new players, which there are few, this is an unsolvable problem.
I ez clapped duelist in solo shuffle this season and I’ve only been playing wow for 11 months
Please blizzard I am desperate for this!
you guys can't see the rootcause here.
if blizzard will make any of suggested changes the SS que time will jump up to 30-60 minutes. that will get to 1-2 hours on the high rates.
THEN you will cry in comments because you can never q up since it takes way too long and PVP will eventually die.
in order to make a good mmr system you need... drum roll...MORE PLAYERS. That's the problem here. Bring more people first, then fix mmr system.
right now people prefer to suffer on hardcore classic rather than PVP on the retail, and that has nothing to do with mmr system.