Thank you for watching. If you found this valuable - would you take a moment to like & subscribe... then share this with someone you think would enjoy this conversation. Thanks. 🙂
I love what Dr. Nardi says about spiraling upward or downward. I find that having gratitude for the simple things in my life really helps me spiral up!!🤩
I used to think I was INFJ. Do I have narcissists in my life? Yeah, but that’s more a reflection of my lack of boundaries. I also think people mix up fawning with Fe, and CPTSD with Ni, which I did for quite some time. The more I heal the less I relate to the type as it is represented in online groups, and the less I am around abusive people. Who knows what I am, but thank you for addressing this phenomenon. You explained it so, so well, Antonia.
not sure why but both fawning and CPTSD is very common in INFJs. They were often times abused in childhood by parents and used fawn to protect themselves. Sometimes just bad family energy and they had to be parents for their parents so to speak, INFJs often define themselves as "parentified". They often wear armor and protection mechanisms to not appear weak, they also do not like when others appear weak, probably because they themselves were not allowed to appear as such for their parents? Now lets look into your assumptions.. is Fe, Fawn?, is Ni, CPTSD? Tbh there is probably correlation, though my theory is that the INFJ (or many INFJs) were forced to learn Fe and Ni through less ideal forms of motivation I suppose. Fawn probably did make INFJs skilled in Fe, and on focusing on others emotion and how to influence it. And trauma, imo, makes us disassociate with our senses and body and sense of self. What is left? Imo it's actually our soul body or intuitive body. Sense the INFJ is disconnected with own body, they paradoxically get more of a clear view on what their metaphysical body is and how to use it. Aka explains their more esotheric abilities, as only the metaphysical body has been reliable. The sensory body has not been reliable because of trauma. However sometimes when INFJs think they use Ni, they actually are influenced by trauma in Si and their insight was either distorted or mistaken for insight when in actuality it was trauma thoughts. This is probably especially true in one to one relationships in which they struggle to trust the heart of the other person. Also stemming from childhood. Fi critic also, imo is probably linked to a closed heart, because they were not loved by their parent when they needed it the most. The sad part is that Fi critic will attract abusive people, and repell those who are nonabusive - but in the mind of the INFJ, she/he thinks he successfully see red flags as they should be seen. However, secretly, the INFJ trauma system doesn't want a person to be close to them. Their spiritual heart might want it, but not their physically closed heart (note: is possible to heal and improve) About boundaries, Si seems to be best for this, and the best way for INFJs to develop Si is probably somatic experiencing
We are basically talking about healthy versus unhealthy expression of type and being mature or immature in your type. Age isn’t necessarily correlative. It’s true that any type can be toxic or exhibit toxic traits, but certain types are more predisposed to certain traits or falling into those traits than others. Your example of an infj with a whole bunch of narcs around them is someone who is likely both immature and unhealthy in their type.
I appreciate the reminder to not confuse a particular person's toxic behavior with that person's type in general. I have a toxic ISFJ (reasonably sure) in my family and noticed I was starting to look down on the MBTI type so I tried to imagine how a healthy ISFJ might be and realized what a gift they could be to us all. One of the things that clued me in to this person's toxicity was the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" or lose/lose that Dario mentioned. I noticed it decades ago and have been placing boundaries and practicing Grey Rocking ever since . . . very helpful. Thank you for your insightful work.
As an INTJ, i always checkout when I see the thinking pattern (paradigm). The loops, the cycles, the churn, seeing their brain push from/to the unconscious around the fear or insecurity. This conversation is just about this person wanting to re-live their past or force a future outcome. Kill me please. BUT I’ve grown to have better listening skills and specially understanding some people don’t look for closure (I’m looking at you xNTPs) which is flabbergasting to me. Seeing people look for validation in the outside world and providing it correct…
Wow. That was so informative it requires a rewatch. As an intp, it can be very difficult to not be nitpicky when the flaws in the person's argument are glaring and prevent us (the friend and I) from moving forward to achieve harmony. Blind to my arrogance. To my mind, I'm being helpful because I want to end the conflict, but, of course, it riles them instead. I've had to work on staying silent and pausing after they present all their arguments. The pause is critical because it prevents me from instantly correcting everything that I consider inaccurate allowing Ne to express itself, "What is the bigger picture here? What is he really trying to say?" Then I'm more open to asking questions about the parts that were confusing or contradictory to me with a sense of curiosity rather than correction.
The sun also rises. When someone exclaims a beautiful sunrise you can choose to point out the inaccuracy of that word or you can choose to share in their joy understanding what they mean . . . because you do.
😮I am just speechless- it’s like you literally read my mind 🏧!!!! It’s like a ‘free therapy’, it is priceless! Thanks so much 😢❤You are all so awesome 👏
I’m so glad you brought up that part at 37:30 about labeling being an intention of using Ti - and that you took it a step further with it being about integration. ❤
Yep, helpful to hear from the 3 of you on type and narcissism. INFP-N here; father as ESTJ-D with narcissistic traits and mother as INFJ-C. Divorced after 15 years being married; realized she couldn’t do her “Christian duty” anymore
Antonia, you have the right to end the show differently every time if thats challenge a bit more your Ne and makes you felling more peaceful and fulfill :) Second tought, question, a bit random from the podcast but im struggling these days to understand what kind of help should i look for if i wanna do and individuation process / or /and integrating my inferior functions. Should i look for a jungian analyst, a mbti coach etc...anways thanks a lot for everything you provide , its magic for me . This particular deep talks / ''all over the places conversations'' you had in this podcast where very interesting ,intense and enlighting on the quest of discovering humans! Good fall to you!
To all the XXFJ's, Labeling isn't as useful as problem-solving and it never will be. True narcissists are very rare, only about 0.00006% of the US population are reported to be clinical narcissists. I have an ENTP friend who hates to be called aggressive, he prefers the term passionate. Ti seems to have a tendency to label things according to what's convenient. The labels you create are not a reality for others. Narcissist may be a convenient term to refer to those who've hurt you, but more often than not the person might've just been a general piece of shit. Using the incorrect (or personally convenient) label may get you the reaction that you desire from others, but it's morally deceiving and it's emotionally manipulative behavior. When people see this type of behavior repeated, they'll stop taking you seriously. It's as if you're the boy who cried wolf but you actually saw a dog. (From some random guy with INTJ preferences.)
51-year-old INFJ here. I can appreciate this and agree that there are so many people, not just those who identify as INFJ, who are very quick to label people with negative labels when oftentimes it is relationship/communication issues and/or differences that they just don't like. True we can find ourselves in some horrible situations, but labeling people narcs (not common as you point out.) I personally don't even like the label "toxic" even though I can appreciate the distinctions made in this video using "toxic traits" just due to the huge amount of people labeling people "toxic" in general or saying they have "toxic energy" when in reality, energy is energy and it is often more about personality/relationship issues that need to be addressed in some way. I find the labeling even more problematic when it is thrown on to people who they don't know as it could be that someone is just going through a tough/rough time. As Joel stated, if an adult is surrounded by people they are labeling "narcs" or "toxic," that is a call for them to go in and try to figure out what the heck is going on or get some other perspectives from others as well. Just saying "I'm an INFJ" is not an answer that is going to deal with the issue. It can take time. Compassion for ourselves and others while we figure our "stuff" out, even if that means getting some outside help.
Thank you for watching. If you found this valuable - would you take a moment to like & subscribe... then share this with someone you think would enjoy this conversation. Thanks. 🙂
I love what Dr. Nardi says about spiraling upward or downward. I find that having gratitude for the simple things in my life really helps me spiral up!!🤩
I used to think I was INFJ. Do I have narcissists in my life? Yeah, but that’s more a reflection of my lack of boundaries. I also think people mix up fawning with Fe, and CPTSD with Ni, which I did for quite some time. The more I heal the less I relate to the type as it is represented in online groups, and the less I am around abusive people. Who knows what I am, but thank you for addressing this phenomenon. You explained it so, so well, Antonia.
Thank you for sharing your story and honesty, Savannah! 😎 🤘🏽 💜 🙏🏽
I had narsasists in my life I was testing their overal morality they aren’t in my life now either it’s ok . Everyone’s different .☺️
not sure why but both fawning and CPTSD is very common in INFJs.
They were often times abused in childhood by parents and used fawn to protect themselves.
Sometimes just bad family energy and they had to be parents for their parents so to speak, INFJs often define themselves as "parentified".
They often wear armor and protection mechanisms to not appear weak, they also do not like when others appear weak, probably because they themselves were not allowed to appear as such for their parents?
Now lets look into your assumptions.. is Fe, Fawn?, is Ni, CPTSD?
Tbh there is probably correlation, though my theory is that the INFJ (or many INFJs) were forced to learn Fe and Ni through less ideal forms of motivation I suppose.
Fawn probably did make INFJs skilled in Fe, and on focusing on others emotion and how to influence it.
And trauma, imo, makes us disassociate with our senses and body and sense of self. What is left? Imo it's actually our soul body or intuitive body.
Sense the INFJ is disconnected with own body, they paradoxically get more of a clear view on what their metaphysical body is and how to use it. Aka explains their more esotheric abilities, as only the metaphysical body has been reliable.
The sensory body has not been reliable because of trauma. However sometimes when INFJs think they use Ni, they actually are influenced by trauma in Si and their insight was either distorted or mistaken for insight when in actuality it was trauma thoughts. This is probably especially true in one to one relationships in which they struggle to trust the heart of the other person. Also stemming from childhood.
Fi critic also, imo is probably linked to a closed heart, because they were not loved by their parent when they needed it the most.
The sad part is that Fi critic will attract abusive people, and repell those who are nonabusive - but in the mind of the INFJ, she/he thinks he successfully see red flags as they should be seen. However, secretly, the INFJ trauma system doesn't want a person to be close to them. Their spiritual heart might want it, but not their physically closed heart (note: is possible to heal and improve)
About boundaries, Si seems to be best for this, and the best way for INFJs to develop Si is probably somatic experiencing
We are basically talking about healthy versus unhealthy expression of type and being mature or immature in your type. Age isn’t necessarily correlative.
It’s true that any type can be toxic or exhibit toxic traits, but certain types are more predisposed to certain traits or falling into those traits than others.
Your example of an infj with a whole bunch of narcs around them is someone who is likely both immature and unhealthy in their type.
I appreciate the reminder to not confuse a particular person's toxic behavior with that person's type in general. I have a toxic ISFJ (reasonably sure) in my family and noticed I was starting to look down on the MBTI type so I tried to imagine how a healthy ISFJ might be and realized what a gift they could be to us all. One of the things that clued me in to this person's toxicity was the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" or lose/lose that Dario mentioned. I noticed it decades ago and have been placing boundaries and practicing Grey Rocking ever since . . . very helpful.
Thank you for your insightful work.
As an INTJ, i always checkout when I see the thinking pattern (paradigm). The loops, the cycles, the churn, seeing their brain push from/to the unconscious around the fear or insecurity. This conversation is just about this person wanting to re-live their past or force a future outcome.
Kill me please.
BUT I’ve grown to have better listening skills and specially understanding some people don’t look for closure (I’m looking at you xNTPs) which is flabbergasting to me. Seeing people look for validation in the outside world and providing it correct…
Wow. That was so informative it requires a rewatch. As an intp, it can be very difficult to not be nitpicky when the flaws in the person's argument are glaring and prevent us (the friend and I) from moving forward to achieve harmony. Blind to my arrogance. To my mind, I'm being helpful because I want to end the conflict, but, of course, it riles them instead. I've had to work on staying silent and pausing after they present all their arguments. The pause is critical because it prevents me from instantly correcting everything that I consider inaccurate allowing Ne to express itself, "What is the bigger picture here? What is he really trying to say?" Then I'm more open to asking questions about the parts that were confusing or contradictory to me with a sense of curiosity rather than correction.
The sun also rises.
When someone exclaims a beautiful sunrise you can choose to point out the inaccuracy of that word or you can choose to share in their joy understanding what they mean . . . because you do.
😮I am just speechless- it’s like you literally read my mind 🏧!!!! It’s like a ‘free therapy’, it is priceless! Thanks so much 😢❤You are all so awesome 👏
I’m so glad you brought up that part at 37:30 about labeling being an intention of using Ti - and that you took it a step further with it being about integration. ❤
Yep, helpful to hear from the 3 of you on type and narcissism. INFP-N here; father as ESTJ-D with narcissistic traits and mother as INFJ-C. Divorced after 15 years being married; realized she couldn’t do her “Christian duty” anymore
Oh my!!! This is over the top so accurate 🎯I’m an infp enneagram 2w3 so have learned the hard way how to navigate thru this!
I have always listened to you guys on Spotify but it's good to see the video, especially with dr Nardi. Hope to see more of that. Love from Poland!
Antonia, you have the right to end the show differently every time if thats challenge a bit more your Ne and makes you felling more peaceful and fulfill :) Second tought, question, a bit random from the podcast but im struggling these days to understand what kind of help should i look for if i wanna do and individuation process / or /and integrating my inferior functions. Should i look for a jungian analyst, a mbti coach etc...anways thanks a lot for everything you provide , its magic for me . This particular deep talks / ''all over the places conversations'' you had in this podcast where very interesting ,intense and enlighting on the quest of discovering humans! Good fall to you!
Which personality spend more money
What movie did Antonia refer to at ~1:21:15?
The TV show is called, "Better Call Saul." It's a prequel to the show "Breaking Bad" and the series just ended this past year.
-A-
@@Personalityhacker thanks!
Hello fellow kids
To all the XXFJ's,
Labeling isn't as useful as problem-solving and it never will be. True narcissists are very rare, only about 0.00006% of the US population are reported to be clinical narcissists.
I have an ENTP friend who hates to be called aggressive, he prefers the term passionate. Ti seems to have a tendency to label things according to what's convenient. The labels you create are not a reality for others. Narcissist may be a convenient term to refer to those who've hurt you, but more often than not the person might've just been a general piece of shit. Using the incorrect (or personally convenient) label may get you the reaction that you desire from others, but it's morally deceiving and it's emotionally manipulative behavior.
When people see this type of behavior repeated, they'll stop taking you seriously. It's as if you're the boy who cried wolf but you actually saw a dog.
(From some random guy with INTJ preferences.)
51-year-old INFJ here. I can appreciate this and agree that there are so many people, not just those who identify as INFJ, who are very quick to label people with negative labels when oftentimes it is relationship/communication issues and/or differences that they just don't like. True we can find ourselves in some horrible situations, but labeling people narcs (not common as you point out.) I personally don't even like the label "toxic" even though I can appreciate the distinctions made in this video using "toxic traits" just due to the huge amount of people labeling people "toxic" in general or saying they have "toxic energy" when in reality, energy is energy and it is often more about personality/relationship issues that need to be addressed in some way. I find the labeling even more problematic when it is thrown on to people who they don't know as it could be that someone is just going through a tough/rough time. As Joel stated, if an adult is surrounded by people they are labeling "narcs" or "toxic," that is a call for them to go in and try to figure out what the heck is going on or get some other perspectives from others as well. Just saying "I'm an INFJ" is not an answer that is going to deal with the issue. It can take time. Compassion for ourselves and others while we figure our "stuff" out, even if that means getting some outside help.