In order of likelihood: 1. Putin getting rid of an opponent. 2. Prigozhin faking his own death to outsmart Putin. 3. A general who wants to whip up support against Putin. 4. Aliens. 5. Jewish Space Lasers. 6. Accident.
forgive me if this sounds LARPy... but if you had just tried to pull off a coup with your paramilitary group, it seems like terrible Opsec to put 10 of your high command on one plane leaving the capital.
The fact that 8 other people, not counting Utkin, also had to die to send this message. 3 crew members who, as far as we know, were just innocent people doing their job.
Makes me think of that scene in Clerks 2 where they were debating the innocent contractors aboard the death star that was half way under construction... also, you know, we can say 'just doing their jobs' but their employer was a private military contractor wanted for multiple war crimes... so... you know. Limited sympathy because they weren't what I'd called "valid targets" per say but it's not like they were just working at Mc Donalds.
I'm gonna wait until we have a corpse with matching dentals. There's something a little too "Cold-War-Era Spy-Movie Plot" about this, but I'm really not all that fond of the idea of taking much of what Russia says at face value at this point.
Yeah it sucks for them. But they knew who they’re working for. It was Pujotsjin private jet. Its like working for specter and then be surprised that James Bond kills you in the progress. The guy was literally a mercenary the go to bad guy in movies when they don’t want to be political
Progozhin fell out of a plane's window, not surprising. Dmitry Utkin also on that flight, wow. Wagner was beheaded. Maybe they delayed to give enough time to secure some other leadership to keep track of operations.
I was so curious what you guys would think about this! I thought it might be fake like he wasn't on the plane but it seems like he was. Glad you felt like bonus content.
The message here is "you come at the king, you best not hang around for two months after you miss." I don't think this undoes the initial embarrassment of that mutiny. Putin was still weak enough to need to negotiate even if he couldn't be trusted to honor said negotiations.
Even 6 month ago, I would not have been surprised, in a strong mans world there is always the potential for challanges of different players and Wagner has become already quite prominent at that stage.
Thank you for the great insight, as always! I was very much hoping you would do a bonus episode on this. I was wondering if you might consider inviting philosopher @VladVexler on the show? With his videos and conversations about Putin and the war in Ukraine he offers a unique and thoughtful perspective on things. Would be happy if you’d consider it!
Not sure if this was out yesterday, but there's alleged video of the plane falling out of the sky, and witnesses saying it was shot down. It's literally just tumbling out of the sky with a hole in the side on fire.
I blame you all for this - Putin watched your most recent episode where you talked about how Prigozhin was still alive because he knew all the Africa deets and his response to your celebrating Prigozhin's strength / knowledge was quick and decisive : No more Prigozhin. Ka-pow!
Tommy's persistent mispronunciation of "Wagner" makes me question the fact- checking that goes on (or not) behind the scenes for this show. I wanted to like PSW, but all credibility vanished when I realized how skimpy the research is.
Poison that rarely gets the job done. Windows that always get the job done. Now he's switching it up with exploding airplanes. I guess he was getting bored.
So true at the end how you can never assume consequences for actions when it comes to world events, that's what keeps me glued to this pod! And a tech guy at the diplomatic controls is a bad idea 😂
Prigozhin had multiple passports, different names and at least one body double. It's possible he was not in that plane. No DNA confirmation of the identity of anyone on that plane
Re why putin used a missile over moscow: That might be the only way he could get to Prigozhin. I'm sure he was aware of the threat to his life and was taking every precaution around all the usual methods.
As I can understand, he was exiled to Belarus, but he went to St. Petersburg(African summit) now Moscow. Not much respect for the agreement. Putin said a few years in an interview, he never could forgive betrayal.
Not lying, a part of me wondered if the US wanted him dealt with for fucking around in Africa, the chaos he's been creating has probably cost some money/resources, as well as lives. It'd be a nice pat way to deal with him, and everyone would be quick to blame putin (for obvious reasons), but if it was putin shouldn't he have died of eating too much polonium or something else staggeringly obvious? He doesn't want people to doubt that he had the hit done.
Yay, bonus content! Hope next debate y'all can do a live stream with commentary, or a recap! Suffering through it by yourself is not fun... Trump's interview with Tucker was way worse though. I have no idea what even the point was as it had no relevant questions regarding him running for president. Biden's feet in the sand... Etc. Jesus.
He definitely didn't fake his death. If the plane left from somewhere outside of Russia then I'd say maybe. But this took off inside Russia so that's almost zero. The most likely thing is he was slaughtered before the plane even took off or days before and then they just added his name along with his 2nd in charge and downed the plane as a cover.
Wagner was Hitler's favorite composer. But because of it it was utkin's call name. The Wagner group was named after utkin's call name, not the composer himself.
Why will he take a flight in a plane who was not inspect by his pilot andthat a man who knows he is the leader o his people who follow him. Sorry but something is wrong.
It's interesting how much different information has already "come out" about this plane crash. First, it was said that Progoshin was "confirmed dead", how he "was on the passenger list". First, it was said that it was a flight to Moskow, now it - supposedly - was a flight from Moskow to St. Petersburg. Which begs the question: Why was Pregoshin even in Russia ? Wasn't he supposed to be "exiled" to Belarus ? The only explaination I've heard so far was that he was - supposedly - flying to Moskow to discuss Wagner's role in Africa. But we have no confirmation that this actually happened - and why the flight back to St. Petersburg ?
It’ll be interesting in what happens in Africa. Will they just become war lords and if they do should could the west send in special forces and take out what’s left
He would be safer in Russia. Xiden, Hitlery and the Demonrats are much more vicious, violent and murderous than the Russian government. The US is the most corrupt country in the world. Hitlery’s kill list would put Putin’s list to shame.
In order of likelihood:
1. Putin getting rid of an opponent.
2. Prigozhin faking his own death to outsmart Putin.
3. A general who wants to whip up support against Putin.
4. Aliens.
5. Jewish Space Lasers.
6. Accident.
The doc knows what’s going on. Seems a little prosaic for Putin. I reckon 2 or 3.
Jewish space lasers 😂😂😂 guess we all know who will go with that explanation
I mean medium size business have policies against their #1 & #2 travelling together... strange they didn't follow this basic rule??
I think the plane was too woke, so it broke
7. All of the above.
Saw the news the second I finished the new ep, and thought, “I CANNOT wait a whole week to hear Ben and Tommy talk about this…”
Hahaha I had exactly the same thought
Putin: “Man, that plane must’ve had some really bad sushi before falling out of the 10th story window like that 😉.”
Surprise late night bonus episode?? Hell yes!
Oh man I was about to fall asleep after the debate… now this! Thanks guys😂
Thank you guys!!!
forgive me if this sounds LARPy... but if you had just tried to pull off a coup with your paramilitary group, it seems like terrible Opsec to put 10 of your high command on one plane leaving the capital.
Thank you guys! You’re the best ❤
The fact that 8 other people, not counting Utkin, also had to die to send this message. 3 crew members who, as far as we know, were just innocent people doing their job.
They were collateral damage. Wrong place, wrong time lol…😂
@@sj4632 no not lol honestly
@@ToppyTree it is funny…
Makes me think of that scene in Clerks 2 where they were debating the innocent contractors aboard the death star that was half way under construction... also, you know, we can say 'just doing their jobs' but their employer was a private military contractor wanted for multiple war crimes... so... you know. Limited sympathy because they weren't what I'd called "valid targets" per say but it's not like they were just working at Mc Donalds.
It's horrible. But something being horrible has never made Putin hesitate before. Just more of a sign that we should be continuing to defend Ukraine
I'm gonna wait until we have a corpse with matching dentals. There's something a little too "Cold-War-Era Spy-Movie Plot" about this, but I'm really not all that fond of the idea of taking much of what Russia says at face value at this point.
Thank you guys! You’re the best . Thanks so much for the bonus pod, Tommy and Ben..
Thank you Ben and Tommy ☮️💜✨
Thank you Fellows. Was hoping to hear from you tonight. Hugs.
Found the phone but not the body (which is what I'm reading on Friday) sounds like all those thriller movies we've all watched.
My heart goes out to the 3 crew members and their families.
Yeah it sucks for them. But they knew who they’re working for. It was Pujotsjin private jet. Its like working for specter and then be surprised that James Bond kills you in the progress. The guy was literally a mercenary the go to bad guy in movies when they don’t want to be political
Progozhin fell out of a plane's window, not surprising. Dmitry Utkin also on that flight, wow. Wagner was beheaded. Maybe they delayed to give enough time to secure some other leadership to keep track of operations.
Love you guys for this
I was so curious what you guys would think about this! I thought it might be fake like he wasn't on the plane but it seems like he was. Glad you felt like bonus content.
Thanks so much for the bonus pod, Tommy and Ben.
Thanks!
Another awesome episode boys, thank you. Look forward (as alway), to the next. Cheers from Sydney Australia 🤘
Ofcourse he was, after the "mutiny" EVERYONE knew his days were numbered. This is the least surprising thing since rain is wet and the sun is hot.
💯
Thank you!
Thanks guys!
The message here is "you come at the king, you best not hang around for two months after you miss." I don't think this undoes the initial embarrassment of that mutiny. Putin was still weak enough to need to negotiate even if he couldn't be trusted to honor said negotiations.
Absolutely!!!
How is that even even at question?
How is this even even a question?
Pat Patriot makes an appearance! Realizing there’s serious crap going on but go Pats Nation
Very informative and spot on
No one should skip their leg day over something like Prigozhin
It makes you wonder if that lunar lander had crossed Putin in some way.
Definitely wouldn't want to be the people working on that little project. Stay away from windows.
BONUS EPS ARE THE BESTEST
“He too will not be at the debate” lmaooooo😂😂😂
Definitely Putin taking old yeller out back😂 the chef should have fed him some poison while he had the chance 🫡🫡🫡
Why would all the top leaders of the Wagner group be on the same plane? Hope it’s true! 🎉🍾
This is crazy bro
2:59 biden called trump and christie fat just by virtue of coming out of a gym lol
Biden has fallen on his ass many times as president, Trump not once…
Insanity! What world are we living in!?
Even 6 month ago, I would not have been surprised, in a strong mans world there is always the potential for challanges of different players and Wagner has become already quite prominent at that stage.
Thank you for the great insight, as always! I was very much hoping you would do a bonus episode on this. I was wondering if you might consider inviting philosopher @VladVexler on the show? With his videos and conversations about Putin and the war in Ukraine he offers a unique and thoughtful perspective on things. Would be happy if you’d consider it!
Tommy's been working overtime this week already. Putin could've waited 'til next week!
Not sure if this was out yesterday, but there's alleged video of the plane falling out of the sky, and witnesses saying it was shot down. It's literally just tumbling out of the sky with a hole in the side on fire.
Illicit Mercenary Empire, problenatic but great band name🤘
If you're committed to something, just finish it.
- NOT Prighozin
I blame you all for this - Putin watched your most recent episode where you talked about how Prigozhin was still alive because he knew all the Africa deets and his response to your celebrating Prigozhin's strength / knowledge was quick and decisive : No more Prigozhin. Ka-pow!
Strange how the passengers all committed suicide with one bullet to the head before they crashed.
Yeah, you rock.
Funny how someone just happened to be filming a passing jet! What’s the odds? 😂🤣😂
YESSSS
I haven’t watched the video yet. Just read the title.
The answer is yes.
Tommy's persistent mispronunciation of "Wagner" makes me question the fact- checking that goes on (or not) behind the scenes for this show. I wanted to like PSW, but all credibility vanished when I realized how skimpy the research is.
I'm sure Vivek Ramaswamy would be startled to learn that the invasion of Ukraine was in violation of several agreements that Putin had made.
Vivek "Chamberlain" Ramaswamy?
Malcolm Nance pointed out that Pirgozhin shot down planes during his mutinous march to Moscow. So tit-for- tat..
Poison that rarely gets the job done. Windows that always get the job done. Now he's switching it up with exploding airplanes. I guess he was getting bored.
Why is their yellow cup on the red floor?
So true at the end how you can never assume consequences for actions when it comes to world events, that's what keeps me glued to this pod! And a tech guy at the diplomatic controls is a bad idea 😂
Prigozhin had multiple passports, different names and at least one body double. It's possible he was not in that plane. No DNA confirmation of the identity of anyone on that plane
It is also possible that Elvis was on the plane.
Is the volume so low so Putin can't hear you?
It was either shot down or there was a bomb in the hold. I'm going with AtA missile as the tail the wing was blown off.
Odd Prigozhin would go near Russia after what he did. He must've known Putin would get him so why return to Russia. Very fishy 🤔
🐟🐠🐡
If we made a deal with Putin I'm sure it would go just about as well as the deal Stalin made with Hitler.
Was he really on the plane or is he hiding and put his name on manifest???
Get sleuthing
Re why putin used a missile over moscow: That might be the only way he could get to Prigozhin. I'm sure he was aware of the threat to his life and was taking every precaution around all the usual methods.
The conspiracy theorist in me wants to believe he faked his own death.
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks you're a Russian bot.
Prigozhin was not on that plane.
There's also the entertaining though unlikely suggestion that Prigozhin has faked his death.
Nobody ever rates Putin as the forgiving type, or believes he would keep his word to the Lukashenko deal to let Prigozhin live.
As I can understand, he was exiled to Belarus, but he went to St. Petersburg(African summit) now Moscow. Not much respect for the agreement. Putin said a few years in an interview, he never could forgive betrayal.
Bomb was planted not a missile.
DemonDjinn👁👁Dr. Evil is back
Someone tell Ben to get a real mic
Accidents happen, I guess 😂
Shocked😂😂😂😂
Not lying, a part of me wondered if the US wanted him dealt with for fucking around in Africa, the chaos he's been creating has probably cost some money/resources, as well as lives. It'd be a nice pat way to deal with him, and everyone would be quick to blame putin (for obvious reasons), but if it was putin shouldn't he have died of eating too much polonium or something else staggeringly obvious? He doesn't want people to doubt that he had the hit done.
A plane wreck is infinitely preferable to a couple ug of Po-84 in your borscht
This is a thirst comment, I'm not going to apologize for it... but Ben Rhodes is a national security daddy.
Surprised Pikachu face
All these theories! It is simple. He fell out of one of the planes windows
This is Drumph's best buddy who he looks up to.
M
Ultimately, good riddance to the trash.
Yay, bonus content! Hope next debate y'all can do a live stream with commentary, or a recap!
Suffering through it by yourself is not fun... Trump's interview with Tucker was way worse though. I have no idea what even the point was as it had no relevant questions regarding him running for president.
Biden's feet in the sand... Etc. Jesus.
He definitely didn't fake his death. If the plane left from somewhere outside of Russia then I'd say maybe. But this took off inside Russia so that's almost zero. The most likely thing is he was slaughtered before the plane even took off or days before and then they just added his name along with his 2nd in charge and downed the plane as a cover.
Wagner was Hitler's favorite composer. But because of it it was utkin's call name. The Wagner group was named after utkin's call name, not the composer himself.
Still a state funded violent terrorist group basically.
So what?
Why will he take a flight in a plane who was not inspect by his pilot andthat a man who knows he is the leader o his people who follow him. Sorry but something is wrong.
Re: Kursk. Wagner'esque it might be, but it is very unRussian.
not worth listening to. oh well.
Rootin' Tootin" Putin
It's interesting how much different information has already "come out" about this plane crash. First, it was said that Progoshin was "confirmed dead", how he "was on the passenger list". First, it was said that it was a flight to Moskow, now it - supposedly - was a flight from Moskow to St. Petersburg. Which begs the question: Why was Pregoshin even in Russia ? Wasn't he supposed to be "exiled" to Belarus ? The only explaination I've heard so far was that he was - supposedly - flying to Moskow to discuss Wagner's role in Africa. But we have no confirmation that this actually happened - and why the flight back to St. Petersburg ?
Greyzone is largely known as the "Infowars of the left". Please don't quote them.
How many times has Pod Save America been left scrambling after a last minute Trump indictment? I guess this is the equivalent for Pod Save The World.
Hail Hydra!
It’ll be interesting in what happens in Africa. Will they just become war lords and if they do should could the west send in special forces and take out what’s left
R debate, Haily on top no one else showed up. Total dumpster smoldering pop heap.
You dems love you some nicki haley huh lol? She won’t even make it to iowa, neocon trash…
Russian Murder Inc.
The US is worse.
Lucky for DJT that he does not live in Russia.
He would be safer in Russia. Xiden, Hitlery and the Demonrats are much more vicious, violent and murderous than the Russian government.
The US is the most corrupt country in the world. Hitlery’s kill list would put Putin’s list to shame.
#TheBlacklistSeason11:
#AWindowOpensIntoTheRedAbyss....
#TalkAboutRisingToCreativeNewHeightsInDrama... #
Trump, Putin. Russia, USA What's the difference?
"I've been workin' out for the last hour and a half." 😎 Yooooooooooooooooooo lol
What a ridiculous question - of course he was 😅
No. He was accidentally murdered.
It was shot down I thought