They really went out of their way to design and build these systems back then, without the aid of Microprocessors and all the other Hardware, and most importantly the Software we have today. An Age where Mechanic, Electric, Electronic and Computing Sciences were starting to melt together! Very interesting indeed.
Thanks for uploading this... it's absolutely fascinating and quite amazing that the design and build was done with very little computer technology. I can't work out if the music should belong to a crime thriller or porn movie
Love videos like this showing how control and automation was done decades ago and how different it is today nowadays the whole system could be condensed into a few PLC's and one massive SCADA system how times change
So much of the electronics, racks and cabinets in this film I recognise from GPO (and then BT) SystemX telephone exchanges, which was also converted in the 1970s from analogue to digital - many of which are still in service today. Small world....
What's with the Hammer Horror movie music? I half expected Christopher Lee to start chomping on the technicians! I know progress happens, but I miss the old signalboxes and semaphore gantries. Some of the magic was lost when they were demolished.
Cool to see a Kensington Olympia Motorail running through there at the end, KO ones had open cars where the Euston ones had posh enclosed carriages. Fond memories of the many loco changes on the journey which I seem to remember was London to Crewe, then engine switch, onwards and upwards on electric as far as the overheads allowed then a 47 rest of the journey with Sc region waiting at Carlisle to take up to Carstairs and the motorail split at Carstairs with some coming off for Glasgow, the rest wending its way to Edinburgh then the highlands of Fort William and Inverness with Perth and Stirling engine changes and flats shunted off to the waiting motorail bay. The night my fathers friend was killed at Kensington heralded an absolute nightmare holiday as it turned out my poor father was the ranking railwayman on site so we had to travel to Inverness without me dad who turned up two days later and found BR had unloaded his car at Stirling so had to wait a day whilst he went down and retrieved it. To be fair to BR they did move us 1st class sleeper from Euston and put us all in the railway hotel in Inverness but many rows were had that holiday...
My late father ended his career with BR at London Bridge on the infamous "platforms 1-6" panel. His heart went out with BR when being offered the signalling managers job at Edinburgh Waverley the unions refused to endorse his post claiming demarcation etc so the position offer was withdrawn and my father was fairly fed up with the railways and took early retirement. He returned to lever signalling at Swanage where he was happier doing the thing he loved. I went past Glasgow and Motherwell signalling centres a couple weeks back, was saddened to see the old signalboxes around Carlisle gone and the marshalling yard boxes all boarded up as the plan is to now adopt the American system of centralised signalling from Euston house I seem to remember.
9:35 I think that mains connection would fail a PAT test... :) And no wonder dad was so proud to show me carlisle as a child (circa 1979... he was a BR electrician)
It is fascinating to see just how different that these things had to be before modern computing - the massive relay room filled with individual wires, each one manually laid! And reed switches...
Makes you wonder however they managed it, where ever they started it all off and how did it all to fit in and link up together too! Very complex work indeed
At 26:00 the 50 is moving a full consist without the headlamp (switched on)! You wouldn't get away with that today! Had to edit my comment - it was so dark I couldn't make out the shape properly first time!
I was in the RAF at Lossiemouth at this time and used to travel from Inverness to Carlisle along this line at about the time this film was made and I never knew what went on. I only know there was usually a long delay at Carstairs, normally worse at night time.
Great film. Always preferred these more technical BTF productions compared to those poetic travelogues of Wales and Scotland. I really must buy more of the excellent DVDs. And I'd love to know which music library the music at 27:26 is from, groovy!
Since I commented on this post I went to work for Network Rail and I'm in a signal box with 4 NX panels like those in the film. By 2023 it will be closed and all the signalling controlled via computer screens from a location in Hampshire. Technology marches on.
Train number display with catode tube. I suppose It was very expensive back then. I'm wondering if it was installed on each station or only for some central traffic management.
Amazing, beautiful electro mechanical workmanship, all custom built, which all probably ended up in a skip 10 years or less later. thanks for posting.....DA.
As far as I’m aware whilst Motherwell panels are away they’re still running the GEC Geographical Interlocking! Happy to be corrected but it was really made to last that stuff!
Wow, this is the craziest wiring porn I have ever come across. Being a computer scientist since the nineties makes me feel lazy and stupid using IT nowadays.
I'm about half way thru this video,, I would just like to comment that back when this was all thought up, built and installed with attention to detail, strong hardy solid state electronic, boards, relays, et all,, I'm sure it had a long life window and cost a huge bundle. I keep asking myself if it's still being used or if smaller and smaller computers have been retrofitted to replace the old tech? I hope not, I understand new systems are faster and can be expanded upon with a minimum of trouble but this old stuff should hold up,,, I won't be holding my breath tho , ha ha.
Glasgow and Motherwell have all but moved to a state of the art signalling centre in Springburn. Only panel 6 at msc remains which is Gretna to Carstairs and this will move dec 2019
A number of my Colleagues are in this. I am ex Westinghouse Brake and Signal Company. I started in 1978. Mike Donald ex WB&S Co and Ian Worthington ex British Railways LMR and WBSA are in this.
The good ol days when stuff was repeated redesigned everytine it was installed allowing someone to come up with better ideas. Nowdays, Some programmer who has never seen a train comes in on a limited, and insufficient contract and makes changes that affect the whole network. In Sydney, AUS, some bright spark has programmed General otehr, or Trackwork announcements, to simultaneously talk over the station stopping pattern announcements, instead of wait until one has finished.. They haven't fixed it for years.
The 'overtalking' problem happens pretty much everywhere I've ever seen a PA system. It's *SO* annoying yet no-one can be bothered to come up with a fix. It's particularly bad in airports in the US.
It's bad Contract Procedures design process. They City Rail probably Contract one system (Train Destinations), and then Contract thru someone else to do ( Trackwork Announcements). Both separated by the Contract so it never get integrated properly.. In the old days, they'd have internal programmers / i.t. staff to produce all that. Not too far back either.. early 2000's. Now they outsource, do not specify what they want properly because a non-techo, non design Manager does the Contract.
Sydney imported a lot from the U.K. A lot of Sydney Trans Staff are Brits, so the ongoing design is effectively taking a bit from this country - mostly U.K. - and a bit from the Swiss etc.
It still is in use! starting to replace these route relay systems now with computer based systems but there still is an awful lot of relay stuff out there!
Love these vids. My wife is making High end Hifi systems, still with these same methods. Women arent just for washing, cooking, and making babies. Apparently lol. Dont tell her I said that 😂 Another great vid, please keep them coming. Thanks again. 😎👍
Still not sure why the British went with such pricy centralized interlocking schemes instead of more flexible CTC systems. Not only is CTC cheaper, it allows for bi-directional operation as well.
This IS what we in the United States would call CTC. The Brits like to do things on smaller scale, which is why they have a localized "signal box" controlling a much smaller area than a 100+ mile CTC'd Subdivision in the U.S. But the relay logic and comm systems are exactly like the CTC boards of old in the U.S.
+Ross Church Some people people might call it that, but when you look in a western rulebook and the method of operation is CTC, that means the direction of the track can be set one way or the other. A majority of the ail lines in the UK, even to this day, operate under ABS rules.
The creation of this system is awsome but the destruction of the system which came before it was criminally wasteful. Some of it should have been left standing if only as a testiment to the fantastic engineers who spent there lives developing it.
Just pull those old semiphore signals down, don't save em. Mind you, I went to Collectors Corner (BR surplus) in the late seventies...but that's another story!!
Um, no! But to be fair, back then they were not a desirable fashion accessory. My guess would be that including that edit was somewhat risque. In those times we saw hand tats on: bikers, ex-cons, gypsies, a few assorted gangs - skinheads in particular and seamen. The crude tats all the way up my left arm, from hand to shoulder, were inspired by my exposure to bikie culture. I made them with a sewing needle bound to a matchstick using cotton, and Indian Ink in 1973. I was 13.
This was filmed and produced in 1974. No wonder all the technology and details look just so damn dated. I hope they replaced all this stuff since 1974. 😫😫
Parts of the UK didn't even get this, and are still on the lever frame system at 0:50 today. They just released a report today about a signaler failing to verify the levers, causing a train to derail at Bognor Regis, a station that moves 1 million passengers per year.
Saw some semaphore signals still in use at Deal station on the south coast the other day. Have also seen them up in Holyhead area. It all fits very much in the "ain't broke, don't fix it" category. Very complex and pricey to swap out, and only necessary to do so if there is cause for it.
Still not sure why the British went with such pricy centralized interlocking schemes instead of more flexible CTC systems. Not only is CTC cheaper, it allows for bi-directional operation as well.
Tell us how great your American railroads are. In the UK I could get from the furthest point in the North East to the furthest point in the South West all (pretty much) by train. Can you do that in America?
This is one of my favorite old BR films.
every single aspect of this video blows my mind
My goodness such a lot of information both technical and sociological of the time. Takes me back.
Indeed, it makes so many good points! ;)
Hahaha... 'aspects'... 'good points'! Very witty.
They really went out of their way to design and build these systems back then, without the aid of Microprocessors and all the other Hardware, and most importantly the Software we have today.
An Age where Mechanic, Electric, Electronic and Computing Sciences were starting to melt together!
Very interesting indeed.
Designed by Engineers with slide rules and paper drawings, amazing
Excellent!
It's heartening for an old analogue technician to see good reliable electromechanical and proper purpose designed circuitry at work.
this is fabulous...how they mapped out and planned it is amazing...thanks for putting up!
Thanks for uploading this... it's absolutely fascinating and quite amazing that the design and build was done with very little computer technology. I can't work out if the music should belong to a crime thriller or porn movie
The basics of route relay interlocking is similar to the architecture of a modern PC today. It could be said that this was the "daddy" of it all LOL
How much pornography do you watch to recognize different types of suitable music. 👍👍
As it’s library music there is a good chance it was used for both! :)
@@incrediblesimilarity5858 😂
He tunes the reeds with a metal file! Oh the good ol days!
Love videos like this showing how control and automation was done decades ago and how different it is today nowadays the whole system could be condensed into a few PLC's and one massive SCADA system how times change
So much of the electronics, racks and cabinets in this film I recognise from GPO (and then BT) SystemX telephone exchanges, which was also converted in the 1970s from analogue to digital - many of which are still in service today. Small world....
What's with the Hammer Horror movie music? I half expected Christopher Lee to start chomping on the technicians!
I know progress happens, but I miss the old signalboxes and semaphore gantries. Some of the magic was lost when they were demolished.
Cool to see a Kensington Olympia Motorail running through there at the end, KO ones had open cars where the Euston ones had posh enclosed carriages. Fond memories of the many loco changes on the journey which I seem to remember was London to Crewe, then engine switch, onwards and upwards on electric as far as the overheads allowed then a 47 rest of the journey with Sc region waiting at Carlisle to take up to Carstairs and the motorail split at Carstairs with some coming off for Glasgow, the rest wending its way to Edinburgh then the highlands of Fort William and Inverness with Perth and Stirling engine changes and flats shunted off to the waiting motorail bay. The night my fathers friend was killed at Kensington heralded an absolute nightmare holiday as it turned out my poor father was the ranking railwayman on site so we had to travel to Inverness without me dad who turned up two days later and found BR had unloaded his car at Stirling so had to wait a day whilst he went down and retrieved it. To be fair to BR they did move us 1st class sleeper from Euston and put us all in the railway hotel in Inverness but many rows were had that holiday...
My late father ended his career with BR at London Bridge on the infamous "platforms 1-6" panel. His heart went out with BR when being offered the signalling managers job at Edinburgh Waverley the unions refused to endorse his post claiming demarcation etc so the position offer was withdrawn and my father was fairly fed up with the railways and took early retirement. He returned to lever signalling at Swanage where he was happier doing the thing he loved. I went past Glasgow and Motherwell signalling centres a couple weeks back, was saddened to see the old signalboxes around Carlisle gone and the marshalling yard boxes all boarded up as the plan is to now adopt the American system of centralised signalling from Euston house I seem to remember.
9:35 I think that mains connection would fail a PAT test... :)
And no wonder dad was so proud to show me carlisle as a child (circa 1979... he was a BR electrician)
No it wouldn’t- a PAT test is only for portable electrical appliances
Back when we still made our own stuff, instead of ordering it from overseas.
Love it........ also feels like I am watching an episode of the sweeney.
It is fascinating to see just how different that these things had to be before modern computing - the massive relay room filled with individual wires, each one manually laid! And reed switches...
James Petts the relay rooms are basically the as the micro-chips.
This is a very well put together film, I especially love the music.
I also love the music especially the bit that begins at 22:00
My uncle was a cable layer back in the 70s.I used to run around my nan's garden wearing his hi-viz vest!!
As long as it wasn’t his underwear.
Makes you wonder however they managed it, where ever they started it all off and how did it all to fit in and link up together too! Very complex work indeed
Engineers will do any amount of work if it means doing as little work as possible in the future!
At 26:00 the 50 is moving a full consist without the headlamp (switched on)! You wouldn't get away with that today!
Had to edit my comment - it was so dark I couldn't make out the shape properly first time!
Might not have been fitted with one at that point, would have to check when high intensity headlamps became a thing.
Love the old CAD, pencil and ruler.
I'm amazed at 8:00, angling huge bobbins to get the sector shaped cables to line up.
That’s always mind blowing to me as well
Loved the Hymek music at 0:27!
Bloody hell that cable laying job looked cold!
I was in the RAF at Lossiemouth at this time and used to travel from Inverness to Carlisle along this line at about the time this film was made and I never knew what went on. I only know there was usually a long delay at Carstairs, normally worse at night time.
Whoever knew the manufacture of cables was so fascinating
Listening to the soundtrack reminds me of Captain Scarlet! I was expecting the green Mysteron rings to appear at any moment!
Great film. Always preferred these more technical BTF productions compared to those poetic travelogues of Wales and Scotland. I really must buy more of the excellent DVDs.
And I'd love to know which music library the music at 27:26 is from, groovy!
The music is 'Race of Champions' by Steve Gray from KPM 1120 Daybreak (1973)
lovely wow & flutter too!
Sound effects library couldn't find Class 20 sound effects for 20:30 and settled for a tractor (not a Class 37) idling?
Absolutely amazing. I wonder how much of it is still in use. Someone may tell us.
Ah yes "Arklone P" 3:10 Happy memories.
Awesome hand tattoos 15:43
where?
@@ericwilliams2122 15:43 mate!
Since I commented on this post I went to work for Network Rail and I'm in a signal box with 4 NX panels like those in the film. By 2023 it will be closed and all the signalling controlled via computer screens from a location in Hampshire. Technology marches on.
Train number display with catode tube. I suppose It was very expensive back then. I'm wondering if it was installed on each station or only for some central traffic management.
Amazing, beautiful electro mechanical workmanship, all custom built, which all probably ended up in a skip 10 years or less later. thanks for posting.....DA.
Actually most of it's still in use, except for Motherwell PSB, but Carlisle and Preston are still in use with the original equipment
@@AndreiTupolev yes and Motherwell lasted until 2019
As far as I’m aware whilst Motherwell panels are away they’re still running the GEC Geographical Interlocking! Happy to be corrected but it was really made to last that stuff!
Really fascinating movie on building signal equipment and layout.
Addictive stuff !......excellent!
i was 16 or 17 when this was made, i feel old..............i AM old!!!
So was I. Haven't the yrs flown by?
How did they do all of this in the 1970s is beyond me and what an army of people that were involved in making all of this on time? Martin. (Thailand)
18:20 that looks nice and easy to understand 🥺
On the cusp of digital, the manufacture of the components seems pretty labour intensive.
Worked for the ( lazy W ) Westinghouse at Chippenham on train describes and mass transit.
Wow, this is the craziest wiring porn I have ever come across. Being a computer scientist since the nineties makes me feel lazy and stupid using IT nowadays.
The chase car is doing well to keep up with the train at the end.....
all... those... wires...
Spaghetti!
and now we can put it into a can-bus line, needing only 2 wires!!!
Where would you get any of the music like the stuff on this video?
Try Laurie Spiegel, Delia Derbyshire, Tangerine Dream
Way over my head but still very interesting.
I'm about half way thru this video,, I would just like to comment that back when this was all thought up, built and installed with attention to detail, strong hardy solid state electronic, boards, relays, et all,, I'm sure it had a long life window and cost a huge bundle.
I keep asking myself if it's still being used or if smaller and smaller computers have been retrofitted to replace the old tech? I hope not, I understand new systems are faster and can be expanded upon with a minimum of trouble but this old stuff should hold up,,, I won't be holding my breath tho , ha ha.
. . . and all we have to do is buy a train ticket.
Great video, very Britsh.
Good heavens this is complicated stuff, All this is no doubt gone or replaced?
Very interesting documentary. Is this system still in use or upgraded to digital ?
Glasgow and Motherwell have all but moved to a state of the art signalling centre in Springburn. Only panel 6 at msc remains which is Gretna to Carstairs and this will move dec 2019
A number of my Colleagues are in this. I am ex Westinghouse Brake and Signal Company. I started in 1978. Mike Donald ex WB&S Co and Ian Worthington ex British Railways LMR and WBSA are in this.
20:42 goodbye old friend 😢
The good ol days when stuff was repeated redesigned everytine it was installed allowing someone to come up with better ideas.
Nowdays, Some programmer who has never seen a train comes in on a limited, and insufficient contract and makes changes that affect the whole network.
In Sydney, AUS, some bright spark has programmed General otehr, or Trackwork announcements, to simultaneously talk over the station stopping pattern announcements, instead of wait until one has finished.. They haven't fixed it for years.
The 'overtalking' problem happens pretty much everywhere I've ever seen a PA system. It's *SO* annoying yet no-one can be bothered to come up with a fix. It's particularly bad in airports in the US.
It's bad Contract Procedures design process.
They City Rail probably Contract one system (Train Destinations), and then Contract thru someone else to do ( Trackwork Announcements).
Both separated by the Contract so it never get integrated properly..
In the old days, they'd have internal programmers / i.t. staff to produce all that.
Not too far back either.. early 2000's.
Now they outsource, do not specify what they want properly because a non-techo, non design Manager does the Contract.
Sydney imported a lot from the U.K. A lot of Sydney Trans Staff are Brits, so the ongoing design is effectively taking a bit from this country - mostly U.K. - and a bit from the Swiss etc.
Thanks!!!
beautiful!
The tune at the end is ace! Anybody know what it is?
Click the more button next to the title, full music details are there....
I wonder how long this system was in use.
It still is in use! starting to replace these route relay systems now with computer based systems but there still is an awful lot of relay stuff out there!
Motherwell closes for good Dec 2019 when the final panel moves to the WSSC 😩😩
Crikey! Paging Health & Safety inspector 20:43!
BICC Cables.. prescot and melling .
“Skilfully carried out by machines”. ??
Love these vids. My wife is making High end Hifi systems, still with these same methods. Women arent just for washing, cooking, and making babies. Apparently lol.
Dont tell her I said that 😂
Another great vid, please keep them coming. Thanks again. 😎👍
I had forgotten quite how awful 1970s background music could be. Thanks for the reminder!
Still not sure why the British went with such pricy centralized interlocking schemes instead of more flexible CTC systems. Not only is CTC cheaper, it allows for bi-directional operation as well.
This IS what we in the United States would call CTC. The Brits like to do things on smaller scale, which is why they have a localized "signal box" controlling a much smaller area than a 100+ mile CTC'd Subdivision in the U.S. But the relay logic and comm systems are exactly like the CTC boards of old in the U.S.
But there's no traffic control. The TC part of CTC.
+Ross Church Maybe because it is on a smaller scale
+Ross Church Some people people might call it that, but when you look in a western rulebook and the method of operation is CTC, that means the direction of the track can be set one way or the other. A majority of the ail lines in the UK, even to this day, operate under ABS rules.
+Jersey Mike's Rail Videos
Agreed, the Brits love their "Up and Down" mains (single direction)...
The creation of this system is awsome but the destruction of the system which came before it was criminally wasteful. Some of it should have been left standing if only as a testiment to the fantastic engineers who spent there lives developing it.
11:47 THAT GUY LOOKS LIKE HARRY HILL WITH HAIR, RESEARCHER TED EGGS FRIED? HARD BOILED? SOFT BOILED? POACHED?
High-tech back then, obsolete now. Much more interesting though.
Just pull those old semiphore signals down, don't save em. Mind you, I went to Collectors Corner (BR surplus) in the late seventies...but that's another story!!
Modern S&T equals the 'Dark Arts', god knows what it's like now (probably darker).
My brain hurts
Oooh..dark tunes.
11:21 tune, nip
I saw hand tattoos at 15:50. so theses arent new :-D
Um, no! But to be fair, back then they were not a desirable fashion accessory. My guess would be that including that edit was somewhat risque. In those times we saw hand tats on: bikers, ex-cons, gypsies, a few assorted gangs - skinheads in particular and seamen. The crude tats all the way up my left arm, from hand to shoulder, were inspired by my exposure to bikie culture. I made them with a sewing needle bound to a matchstick using cotton, and Indian Ink in 1973. I was 13.
wow god jobb done by men & wemen
Notice they play down the jobs losses. It’s just the ‘closure of hundreds of boxes’ - a total un emotive term.
Is it just me, or has England got massively *worse* in every possible way compared to 1974?
LOOK British Railways then when it worked before £££££ Privatisation. How have we gone so sodding WRONG ?????
This was filmed and produced in 1974. No wonder all the technology and details look just so damn dated. I hope they replaced all this stuff since 1974. 😫😫
Parts of the UK didn't even get this, and are still on the lever frame system at 0:50 today. They just released a report today about a signaler failing to verify the levers, causing a train to derail at Bognor Regis, a station that moves 1 million passengers per year.
Nope, good robust technology, much of it still in use
Saw some semaphore signals still in use at Deal station on the south coast the other day. Have also seen them up in Holyhead area.
It all fits very much in the "ain't broke, don't fix it" category. Very complex and pricey to swap out, and only necessary to do so if there is cause for it.
The women soldering with theses fumes wouldn’t be a loud now
You're correct workers aren't allowed to do fuck all without box ticking, harness, goggles,ear protection, gloves,and a team of jobs worth pricks. 😁
Track Ciruits are not something that terrorist should know about.
As far as I know, I DON'T CARE
Take a softly spoken guy and play lousy music over him.
Still not sure why the British went with such pricy centralized interlocking schemes instead of more flexible CTC systems. Not only is CTC cheaper, it allows for bi-directional operation as well.
Jersey Mike's Rail Videos CTC?
Centralized Traffic Control. Emphasis on the "Traffic Control".
Tell us how great your American railroads are. In the UK I could get from the furthest point in the North East to the furthest point in the South West all (pretty much) by train. Can you do that in America?
Could the answer be that we have more, faster trains running more frequently?