Lan - Books vs Show In the books - Last Lord of the Seven Towers, True Blade of Malkier, Defender of the Wall of First Fires, Bearer of the Sword of the Thousand Lakes In the show - Moiraine's sidekick and personal punching bag
There is one rule, above all others, for being a man. Whatever comes, face it on your feet. -Lan Mandragoran, The Great Hunt, Chapter 7: Blood Calls Blood Death comes sooner or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only fools are willing to pay that price. -Lan Mandragoran, The Eye of the World, Chapter 7: Out of the Woods Death is light as a feather; duty, heavy as a mountain.
The feeling I continuously have with the 3 ta'veren in the show is that they are passive observers. They don't really do much. Things just happen around them or to them. In the books they are prime movers. Even early on they change things and people around them. I feel like the showwriters misunderstood this part of being ta'veren. By this part in the books. Rand has fought forsaken, realized he's the dragon reborn and is leading the hunt for the horn. Perrin has much more understanding of his abilities and has put them to use. Matt has been possessed by one of the greatest evils in the world and the search for the dagger is life or death for him. The fact that we didn't get the Fain imprisonment and escape was a real miss.
With Matt and the Dagger you gotta remember that had to change things a bit with barney Harris leaving in the middle of production. I think how it is right now is fine. The Dagger is not so relevant to Matt's story as the plot continues
@@stewartkingsley only in this shitty adaptation. OP is referring to the books, where the three ta’veren are Rand, Mat, and Perrin (though Egwene is borderline).
The whole moiraine and Lan storyline I feel like is awful. Cutting her off from the one power and being a jerk to Lan is completely unnecessary. And as you said my number one issue with the show since it started Rand does not get enough screen time. Mat and Rand are my two favorite characters and they get the least amount of screen time of the main 5+L&M. I do think the white tower stuff been good.
Her being a jerk to him is probably the result of her being 'stilled' imo. Even Lan's outbursts are the consequences of that. I dont like it but they made some stupid changes but hopefully they are going back to normal after she gets her powers back. And fyi, Josha still isnt a big name so they have to push the show to non-readers through Rosamund Pike or Kate Fleetwood who are experienced and more popular. Hence, still less screen time for Rand. Hopefully by the end of the season, the show will shift towards Rand being the main character.
@@smol6193 I agree that it is the side effects of being stilled, but stilling in the first place is dumb. And I buy putting Rosamund Pike in the center of season 1. Kind of like Sean bean in game of thrones. But season 2 you have to let the other ones shine. That’s when they started to focus on kit Harrington, Emily Clarke, etc in got.
@@titans1fan93 Agree with your GOT statement. I am still positive they will give Rand more of a center role atleast in the last couple of episodes in this season. Season 1 didnt do much to excite people about characters like Rand, Mat and Perrin so giving them center role straightaway might put viewers off. As a book fan I still want to see all our central characters given more time. Lets see what happens.
She was being a jerk to Lan in these books as well, to be fair. See TGH22. Or how she keeps trying to leave him behind in TDR. And still being a jerk to him all book so much so that Perrin picks up on it.
Moiraine and Lan's relationship here in the show solidifies my thinking that Rafe and Co. should be strictly relegated to CW, (aka young adult), shows. This is the vibe I get with all the relationships they're doing in the show, it's all just so juvenile in how they deal with everything. Lan and Moiraine have been closely nit, working on the same page as far as goals and ambitions go, _for 20 years!_ Two people together for that long, especially when you factor in the Warder Bond, would be insanely close to each other. I would say akin to a "twin siblings" type of relationship. Sure, they'll argue, but ultimately they know each other so well, they respect each other's way of thinking etc. So, yeah, I really think the show is doing them dirty with a very adolescent take on how Moiraine would deal with her situation. I don't mind the storyline of Moiraine thinking she's been Stilled, (I am of the belief she's only been Shielded). But when you think of it, it's been possibly thousands of years since any man has Shielded a woman from the Power, so, with not being able to see the weaves, I can see how she could erroneously thinks she's been cut off from the Source permanently. However, with that said, I don't trust Rafe enough that they won't actually have her as Stilled. And if they restore her by some other means, negating a certain someone's later storyline, Imma gonna be upset! The other relationship: Rand and Selene, again, so juvenile. They think it's aging them up, but really, it's not. The whole thing with Selene is _she can't have Rand!_ His naivety and innocence in not giving in to his attraction to her drives her nuts! This is a driving force behind her character. Her jealousy drives her to do some of the over-the-top things she does, in the books. So yeah, her already having her way with Rand is jarring to me.
Elayne & Egwene actually met for the first time in The White Tower. On TV Show, it’s actually the exact reverse of the timeline presented in the Books. Elayne is the one who has been there for months by the time Egwene (and Nynaeve) arrive in TarValon from Shienar. You’re being very kind calling Mat’s appearances on the Show a ‘Storyline.’ IMO, the best that can be said for this Season after 3 Episodes, is that it’s watchable, even if it makes a logical book reader‘s blood boil. And it would be remiss of me not to make special mention of Liandrin. Brilliant performance from Kate Fleetwood. Also, a rare creative example from the Producers, of how to successfully create a true enigma, that plays on multiple levels, both for those who haven’t read the books and existing book fans. As you said, Lan & Moiraine’s relationship has been mangled, massively expanding a tightly scripted moment of disagreement in the books, into this overwrought soap opera we’re getting on TV. As for this supposed ‘sexualisation’ of the show? None of the boys were actually ‘innocents’ in the books. They just had a strong sense of duty & propriety… which is the dynamic that works well when Selene tries and tries to seduce Rand with things that appeal to her, not least her own self. It is here where I felt Rand distinguished himself as a character in the books. He does not shy away from his attraction (even if Jordan did engage in that tiresome teen trope of ‘does he/she really like me? I’m just a *insert humble occupation here*) but he strongly insists on doing what he feels is right according to his duty, both towards Selene and the developing plot points. Terribly disappointed with most of the choices made so far in Season 2. Unnecessary. Often Stupid. Occasionally productive. Always inferior to what’s in the Source Material.
@@Bookborn It is fairly accurate to the books though, Mats first POV chapter is when he wakes up in TDR from healing. I think Mats story in the Series is about to take off.
@@Harldin Not at all. They've taken elements of Mat waking up from his Healing and corrupted them. Firstly, the Aes Sedai propensity for withholding information, which has been reduced to Liandrin reading selectively from Perrin's letters, to make Mat think his friends have written him off. I think you're right about whatever storyline they have in store for Mat is about to kick off after Episode 4. Will be curious to see if The Dagger plays a part, or if he is really done with that now.
There are so many McGuffins in the books that do little more than justify filler (Bowl of the winds anyone?). They could very well cut this down to 7 books and still have the main key events. It _is_ however very worrying that the boys get so little screen time. Like Mat not having his Old Tongue stuff established by now is bizarre... Anyway... the EF girls storyline is the most interesting at the moment. Maybe because it's the only one that seems to follow book beats somewhat.
Mat's entire plotline is stunted and I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't something Rafe planned this way but is a result of losing him for a quarter of the episodes in season 1. So whereas Perrin's internal thoughts/feelings were "pruned" purposefully and replaced by the wife fridge (like it or not), Mat's was likely far less planned out. I hope BOTH arcs/characters thrive, like a cut back rose bush, once they've had a season to re-establish them properly. So far, so good, imho.
Thank you so much for making these, it’s been a second since I read books 2 & 3. I will say after the end of season 1 went off the rails with stilling Moraine, and then starting season 2 with almost everyone in places they are not supposed to be, I’m having a really hard time watching this season and getting interested in it. I’ll keep trying… but they made some very odd choices. I understand omitting parts of the books, but doing that while also adding in so many elements that aren’t in the books makes me wonder how they’re going to tell the story. I agree with you that the plot doesn’t seem to be moving along very well, but you’re being super kind in these videos and as unbiased as possible lol!
In the bonus content, Rafe says something like “The other characters around Rand drive the story” … Rafe clearly wanted Nynaeve to be the main character not Rand IMO
Orrr hear me out, through the whole story, there are many other characters that help Rand defeat the dark one. He Ultimately is not able to do it by himself. Even at the end in Shayol Gul he needs the help of several people. And that's a big theme in the books. He actually has less reading time than other character through the majority of the books. So the show is just making that more apparent from the get go that it is an ensemble cast which they have already said. He will still get his moments. But the show is doing a good job on budding up on the other main characters so when they become really important it won't be out of nowhere. Rand just sorta of becomes important immediately with all sorts of talent and moods. Obviously he gets some training. But in many ways he is like a Mary sue at times. And we will watch it unfold
@@mrgermanvono35 could be…ultimately until we get the full story as Rafe imagined it (and I do hope we get 8 seasons) we won’t know for sure if the first season and half was a set-up for the second half of the whole series!
4:54 difference was in the books Nynaeve was Egwene's superior. When they get to the Tower Nynaeve is fast tracked to being an accepted, so she stays as Egwene's superior. But Nynaeve suffers from her block while Egwene excels in lessons. In the show they're basically equals from the start (or at least act like it), then they're both novices together. Egwene is jealous of Nynaeve's strength and abilities (when she can channel) while Egwene suffers from being slow to learn lessons (because she sees the problems with requiring gestures, so she *intentionally* does things in a more difficult way - but still whines about it).
The removal of the Purity Culture of the Two Rivers -- crucial to prevent pregnancies in a world without contraceptives -- is one of my biggest complaints with the adaptation. That Purity Culture is essential to the World Building of this alternate world, though it is understandably inserted to draw in viewers, sadly. Perrin's blushes with the Tuatha'An and both Rand's and Perrin's reluctance to share a bath with women in Fal Dara was IMO integral to their characters. Rand and Selene sharing a bed is anathema to Rand's nature and Selene's motivation in the books.
Rand meets Elayne in book one, but only him, and only one scene. She doesn’t show back up until Egwene and nynaeve meet her in the white tower, so that’s actually not that different. She doesn’t start traveling with them until the middle of book two. It’s nbd, but for the sake of what you’re trying to accomplish, I felt I should point that out. Love the content!
If they are at all faithful to the books getting everyone where they need to be should be pretty easy. In the Great Hunt there are multiple ways established to travel quickly from one place to another, I think it is pretty easy to forget just how far they travel in this book and not always using normal means. Also the book has a 100+ day time jump in it somewhere around chapter 38, so that could be used to have a time jump in the show.
"the books sound SO MUCH better than the series" The books _are_ much, much better. There are a couple of extremely misandrist main characters in the books which were somewhat difficult for me to go through, but I think that's part and parcel of the world that Robert Jordan created, one where most of the main levers of power (social and political) are in the hands of women, and have been, for close to 3000 years since male Aes Sedai went insane and broke the world ( _read - caused giant tsunamis and earthquakes that caused continental shifts_ ). And as such, makes sense in the context of that world. Calling this show an adaptation of the books is being generous to a fault. My advice - stop watching the show and go through the books. There are 14 of them, most of them being 700+ page epics. Once you have read them, or at least finished book 7, come back to the show.
Mat will probably need to be healed again after this season. He'll follow the hunt, find Fain, grab the dagger and have to be healed again. This would put him where he needs to be for the big plot points and where he needs to be for the next season and the changes to his character.
You nailed a lot of points I would have too. Why is everybody split up? Are they trying to correct what they did to Mat’s personality in the first season and make him more like he’s actually written in the books? Since it has been so long, since I read the first six books, I am enjoying your recaps.
I agree, I remember a much more jovial and light hearted Mat for sure. I liked the actor from season 1 but i didn't feel like the personality was quite right. Mat had the merry prankster vibe not the brooding woe is me guy, at least that's how i remember it.
I was only halfway paying attention to the Perrin scene, but I was thinking maybe Perrin “seeing” the past was him being able to smell what had happened there
It's possible that's what they were going for. Sadly given the history of the show to this point, it feels like just another Rand moment given to other characters.
7:43 It isn't bizarre considering how they treated Rand in Season 1. Also, Rafe in the post-episode "extras" said he doesn't want to focus much on Rand. Which is stupid imo considering he is literally the Main Character and has some of the best and most complex and fleshed out arc in the story.
Thank you for making these breakdowns, your insights truly add so much to the story, specially because I have not read the books yet. Please consider making a spoiler heavy review in the future, I love your videos and look forward to the future episodes breakdowns.
I read it as Liandrin was visiting her son yes, i think they are combining Elaida and Liandrin. They need to simplify and combine characters as there are simply too many characters for 8 seasons. I agree we need more of rand. I really hope they can get mat on track, he is the favourite of so many people. I think the weakest plot is the Lan/Moiraine interaction as well, i completely agree. As for the other changes, overall i don't mind but i think i am unusual for an RJ fan. There are many beautiful moments in the series which i have read 20+ times, Perrins letter to Faile (in the two rivers) flat out made me cry as did the final fate of Jain and there were dozens of fist pumping moments. But the books weren't perfect for me and i would be quite happy if they dropped the whole tylin storyline and half the andor politics storyline :). So i am not too stressed about changes as long as they work. Overall i liked the first 2 episodes, and loved the third... the 3rd really got to me.
With Elaida Rafe has said they're going to use her as a character. Though if I didn't know he'd said that I'd 100% agree that it seems like they're combining them. I think they might be combining Liandren with Galina or Alviarin though since she seems to be so prominent, I'd assume they're just going to keep her that way.
@@tadious9415 combining her with alviarin would make sense. I spotted a lie to mat in E3. An outright lie so they aren't changing one thing (I am wary of spoiling non readers)
Lots of good thoughts, definitely agree with your final comment about having to follow five different groupings is really messing with the pacing. We have Rand, Perrin, L&M, Mat, then the White Tower group...and it just means we're stretched so thin and not really able to connect with any of the characters. Ok I have so many thoughts and could write a book, will try not to. I definitely think these episodes (only seen first two so far) are better than last season's. Higher quality, more self-assured. But I still don't think this is a good show, and I still feel confused by their choices. Why did they decide to start everyone off in separate, new places and not really introduce people? I had no idea that was Verin until I pulled up X-ray. "Oh that's Verin!?!" And with Selene..."wait, Rand's sleeping with a random woman? Who is that...??? Didn't realize until a bit later it was supposed to be Selene." I just don't understand the dropping us in the middle of scenes and expecting us to know what's going on. I'm a book fan, and I'm still confused! Actually maybe it's better to not know the books, hence no expectations? I really didn't think the Lan/Fades fight was that great, so dimly lit and I was kinda of annoyed that him and Moiraine had to be rescued by Verin and Tomas haha. Also I know this shouldn't bother me, but I'm still annoyed about characters that don't look right. I'm sorry, that is NOT Sheriam!!! Seriously!??? Oh and definitely agree that Perrin/Mat/Rand are getting short shrift. I did like that we got the abandoned house/flies scene, but Perrin really hasn't had much else to do. Mat is...I don't know, not sure what his character motivations are or what he's trying to do? Rand I kind of get, they're setting up his empathy for men who can channel as he realizes its his own fate to go insane...and getting him some time with Logain to get trained up in saidin. Cool I guess. But why does he have to be sleeping with Selene... And that is another thing, the first few books are supposed to be the books that are a little lighter, a little more carefree before things get really dark. But show is already so dark and dour, it's not exactly fun to watch mostly. I'm watching it because I'm a curious book-nerd who is wondering where they're going with all this!! Curious to know how non-book readers like this. End with a praise. I really do like the Super Girls storyline in the Tower...by far the best part of this season so far is Egwene & Nynaeve...and Elayne!! Elayne is fantastic and such a perfect Elayne...aw bless. She made me smile. Loved seeing Egwene and Elayne bond.
I cant help thinking we need 10 seasons of 10 episodes, they clearly felt there wasnt time to introduce selene properly. I will be interested to see what you think of E3, that felt closest to the books for me.
As far as Matt goes I don't think they are "Ta'veren" enough right now, none of them have a pull towards Rand at least, they all think he's dead still. Matt's luck should come through probably in the second half of the season wherever he ends up going with Min. I wonder if he still has a draw to the dagger and so ends up following the horn, crossing paths with Rand again eventually.
@@Bookborn Nynaeve is on track, I still think she was casted terribly, but the larger beats are there. Liandrin is being oddly humanized and focused on far more then we should, considering the lack of screen time Rand has gotten. His storyline is actually the biggest departure from the source, in terms of characterization, I think he might actually be evil.
@@Bookborn I think you can count on one thing - every male character arc will suffer, in service of building up the female characters. Rafe Judkins already did this for Season One, where it's easy to see he had an agenda and the agenda didn't have an adaptation anywhere on the cards. For example, didn't Judkins state that he doesn't view Rand as central to the WoT storyline? What could be clearer than that? About the only thing Rafe Judkins has in common with Robert Jordan are his initials.
@Bookborn What you mentioned about Rand being innocent in the books is especially relevant - in the books - because Rand develops later into a tortured soul who feels the weight of the world on his shoulders as he tries in vain to slog towards The Last Battle while trying to keep as many people as possible alive, particularly women ( _a character trait that I felt was a silly example of chivalry on Rand's part, especially when it robs women that would willingly give up their lives for him of agency - I was referring to the Far Dareis Mei_ ). One who will use people without a second thought and hate himself at every step for doing it. It would have been so interesting to see that character develop over the series. Pity that Rafe Judkins will do no such thing as he gives any empowering thing that happens to the male characters from the book series to his favorite female characters, in a useless attempt to emulate The Strong Female Character™ , not realizing that turning characters into Mary and John Sues robs them of any interesting aspects whatsoever. As an example, take Nynaeve training with the Warders. I'm guessing that that will be used later to demonstrate that the Strong Female Character™ does not need help from any silly little Warder.
So many, many new plot lines and so many missing from the books. They might introduce most characters and get them all together and ready for Tear and Callandor (or Falme) at the end of the season, but the characters and the road there is so different that it seems to be a completely different story. I think they have to change it to very loosely based on RJ's WoT.
Idk whose idea it was to give Rafe Judkins this property but they need to be punished. Why? I get adapting when need be, but not only are their changes unneeded, they’re BAD.
In fairness Mat doesn’t have much going on in the first two books other than “dagger”. His storyline doesn’t really start in earnest until 3, so I think they can recover it
Yeah, the heal on Mat was so quick we could forget it even happened. And IIRC Moiraine alone performed the heal. The book required more...a lot more. But yeah, he's healed of the knife.
Rand getting a job at a mental hospital kinda lost me for a bit. The shienarans were great and i thought the fight scene with the seanchen was really good. Sad to lose Uno but i hope the decide to give Ragan more of a storyline. I always thought RJ did the shienarans dirty in the books
It was later than book 3. There's a doorway. after that, Moiraine's relationship with Lan changes dramatically and basically becomes what they're showing it to be now. But she has a concrete reason for this there. Right now, she has no reason whatsoever to be pushing him away. If anything, she needs him more now than ever. and I think a sane show runner would see this.
I think mat’s the most concerning, but that also makes sense with the real world stuff. But with min’s vision in this ep, I think the dagger is still around somehow. Idk how they’re gonna do it, but it seems like they’re setting it up, however slowly. Perrin, I think is gonna be developed quite a bit in this season and get us caught up to where he should be. And Rand just seems like we’ve fast forwarded a bit, passing over his doubt about his fate. It’s sort already resolved into an acceptance of what he has to do, so that feels about right since we have less time to do all of this. I’ve just got to zoom out enough to see it from high level character motivations and traits and I can accept it, but the plot is never going to match up 1:1 at this point. Maybe in season 4 or 5, but enough has already been changed that it will ripple down. I just want them to get that far, honestly. I love seeing these characters I love on screen, even if some of the metaphysics and other stuff seems wonky.
Thanks for doing these - the combining of characters and the new plots are really messing with my book memory - or lack there of. And I think I blocked out a lot of the first season :)
The Lan Moiraine relationship does very much feel like that antagonism from later, but exaggerated for TV. I'd be interested to hear / read show only people's opinions on it. On Perrin, I'm actually kind of happy because it feels like we are getting the things we missed on Perrin S1, but also they have a lot of trauma for him to overcome considering how dirty they done him in S1. I'm still sad our Seanchan don't have Texas southern drawl like in the books! But so far nothing has broken the story (Aside from S1 Egwene's healing and Loial's Stabbing that we are moving on from!) Probably the thing I'm worried the most on is the 8 episode thing. I really really think we just need more episodes to cover ground that we need to cover and I'm worried we won't get where we need to go (Unless some people learn some stuff WAY EARLIER THAN THEY DO IN THE BOOKS).
// But so far nothing has broken the story (Aside from S1 Egwene's healing and Loial's Stabbing that we are moving on from!) There have been so many changes and I question whether they thought those things through. * S1: Siuan and Moiraine talk about the Prophecies of the Dragon and establish that they are unreliable. Like there are so many versions and they contradict each other and can't be trusted. Which I get: the showrunner grew up as a closeted gay man in the middle of conservative Mormon country. The last thing he'd be friendly to is the idea of any sort of religious seeming prophecy. But the knock on effects are that now using the Karaethon Cycle as foreshadowing doesn't work when they've been undermined like that. Plus all sorts of engagement is built by people theorizing about what this or that bit of prophecy could mean. Instead, they're all worthless. * S1: Moiraine's voiceover in E1 clearly establishes that men caused the current bad status quo because they sought to "cage the Darkness" because of hubris. Further elaborating on this issue in E8's cold open, there was no need to do this: the men were portrayed as making trouble when they did not need to. There was no urgency of humanity about to lose the War of the Shadow, which *necessitated* action, as in the source material. The whole point was that men and women couldn't work together. The women all refused to help men in their plan, which led to them going off alone and possibly contributed to Saidin being tainted. wot.fandom.com/wiki/Fateful_Concord The series theme of Saidin being a metaphor for toxic masculinity and healing the world by men and women working together, has been turned into theming of: men arrogant + men do bad things. * The Emond's Fielders in the source material start out naive, innocent, ignorant of the world. A lot of emotional punch comes from watching their idealism run smack into reality as they go from an isolated, racially homogenous village, out into the cosmopolitan world where they have to open their minds and grow to accept things beyond their little provincial town. Making Emond's Field as cosmopolitan and diverse as a big city was a HUGE change that completely undermines all that. Like if the writers really WANTED to push open-mindedness, it would be more effective to have close minded people discover the real world in all its diversity and grow as a result. Instead, they already live in that world so there's nowhere for them to go. * So many men in the series have been rewritten to be a++holes. Book Lord Agelmar greets Moiraine respectfully, as if she were a member of the family. TV Agelmar acts like a pompous douche nozzle, presumably to give his sister and Moiraine an excuse to dunk on stupid men. Mat Cauthon is inexplicably changed from an irresponsible kid who learns to grow and accept responsibility, to a walking addiction metaphor that steals from people in a "small town." Abell Cauthon goes from being a respected/respectable member of the community that Mat wants to live up to, to a good-for-nothing abusive waste of space. * Women in a circle. cannot. burn. out. There's a natural buffer against it, which the show's writers choose to ignore so they can have drama in Episode 8. * Nyneave mass heals the entire room full wounded people with a nova burst of energy that also knocks out someone who's supposed to be more powerful than her, and all before she even knows how to channel. In the books, with the exception of Rand with his past-life knowledge, there is narrative set-up before channelers do awesome things. They train and fail repeatedly before earning the right to be awesome. Even Rand fails to be consistent in his magic use and hits a wall until Asmodean tutors him. In the show, people do whatever the writers need them to do with the Power, regardless of whether it has been narratively set-up before hand. This is far from an exhaustive list of things they've done differently that have already created narrative problems and will continue to do so moving forward. Whether the story is "broken" or not is wildly subjective.
@@FeebleAntelope Think about an infinite replaying cycle. Every decision makes a small probability ripple across the pattern. Major nodes for major events have to occur but even the books say there are cycles where things go the other way. The Aes Sedai narrative is as flawed as the gleemans over a long enough time period. Obviously the women who think they are in control of the world, will warp it's histories to match their narratives. I 100% expect to get some sick bombshell moments in Rhuidean with all the characters, probably next season. My point is, consider the unreliable narrator.
Now considering that the Seanchan came to Falme which is on the SHORELINE, and then started to spread outward into Toman Head and Almoth Plain which is the closest places to Falme, HOW THE F do they expect people to think they just showed up near the borderlands which is completely landlocked and presumably, based on the size of the map, hundreds of miles from the shoreline at the very least? Where are their Grolm and other exotic beasts of warfare?
By this time, Rand should be an established Dragon reborn looking for the horn of Valere, Perrin should be an established wolf sensing and communicating ax man even if he disliked violence and preferred smith work. Mat should have never been that dark or cowardly. More of a jovial youth with a dagger that made him hyper suspicious. I don't remember his old tongue and dice truly being established until late book 2 or early book 3, but the first season ruined his arc by chickening out at the way gate. It's not a bad show, but this isn't even coming close to following the books.
"Rand... they're just not giving them any screen time." Honestly from being partway through the books that seems extremely accurate lol. There's a MASSIVE stretch where almost no characters aside from Nynaeve and Elayne get enough time on the page, and those two get WAY too much. Like I was desperately hoping Egwene chapters wouldn't end because I knew it would mean I would have to read for like 6 hours straight before even MAYBE seeing her again. And it doesn't help that Nynaeve and Elayne are very deliberately written to be horrible people to everyone around them. In Elayne's case it's a lot more nuanced (she's incapable of discarding her mental complex as a princess and her new one as an Aes Sedai, and therefore incapable of recognising other people as equals and rather as 'subjects' and so constantly disregards advice from others around her). But both of them repeatedly endanger other people's lives unnecessarily and get mad at anyone who points it out. Both of them 100% would have gotten themselves killed through their own stupidity on multiple occasions but other people bailed them out, and they show absolutely no gratitude. If anything, they become even more aggressive. Both eventually promise to stop this behaviour and then IMMEDIATELY revert. Again, it's deliberate (since other characters call them out), so I get the feeling they might be among my favourites by the end of the series when they actually do learn from their mistakes, but the two most hateable characters become the main characters, and this has gone on for like 3 books straight. Rand, Matt, Perrin and Egwene feel like they're part of a different book series and are only brought in for cameos to push the story from one book to the next once Nynaeve and Elayne drag out enough pages. And honestly the only thing that's making me consider pushing through this is people saying Season 2 of the show is actually getting decent. So I'd prefer to read the books before the show catches up because the books will be the better experience.
Two videos in one day! Nothing here sounds like the books. It really is a "new turning of the wheel" and this time the Dark One has won having already turned Rand. Or I should say Rent Boy Rand who it seems is selling sex for lodgings. My only consolation is that given Selene's tendency towards jealousy she will jump straight to the Tower and kill Egwene. It should be pointed out too that Rand was petrified of staying too long in one place and yet here we are spending months doing nothing. Oops what am I saying, he's already shacked up with the Forsaken so why does he need to worry about them any more 🤷♂
Yeah I rant about this in the video going up right now (episode 3 lol) but I really hate Rand/Selene right now. But they got rid of "on the run" in season 1, so I finally got over that lol
I just watched this episode, I feel like I have to pace myself because I end up hating them so much. The Moiraine/Lan stuff is horrible, I don't know why they decided to make Moiraine so nasty and why they stilled her or shielded her, whatever. The books had an amazing storyline for all of the characters and they have changed it so much and made it into something so different they might as well just change the name of the show and rename all of the characters and treat it like an entirely separate fantasy show.
Never read, only watched. Mat was one of my favorites in season one, season two it feels like the show writers didn't trust their audience to follow along. The line from the show that had me laughing with ridiculousness: I think it was when Neuneive was in the arches and her vision daughter was on the farm and a man rides up on a horse and the daughters line is literally, "Look it's Mat!"
To paraphrase Logain, the writers are trying to figuratively castrate the male characters. This is girl boss ensemble series first and foremost. The boys are supporting characters at best.
after watching it all, I really really strongly feel that this is a story written in the 6th age or later by a red, based upon fragments she found of verins and loials writings and other writings in the tower archives that might have survived... Seriously, if you watch this whole s1-s2 series, through the eyes of a red; this is kinda like how the story might've been rewritten. perhaps with a browns assistance, in case the red would get too far off track, but yeah... xD That also kinda explains the 'importance' of liandrin in guiding nynaeve in this story, how the warder-aes sedai bond became more of a love/pleasure bond than it should and also why we spend less time with rand and the other (male) emondsfielders. Also, after such a long time, people may very well have misconstrued how mins gift works, so in that regard it would also make sense.. kinda.. Kinda, really wish, that the showrunners had told us upfront that they would reframe the story through the eyes of a red after ages had come and gone after the last battle during the fourth age... xD; Then everything would make a heck of a lot more sense, to me at least xD
also, saw on twitter a while back that rafe had a red sister over for dinner or something like that, which got me thinking about the series being written from the pov of a red xD
It’s my understanding that due to scheduling when a lot of Covid restrictions lightened up, a lot of the actors probably had other commitments so getting everyone together at the same time probably wasn’t possible. I don’t think the show really came together well until episode five. Personally, I can’t get used to the new actor for Matt and I do think all of the various plot lines are disproportionate. LAN and M‘s relationship probably bothers me the most. I’m a show only watcher, but I feel like I wanted more time with them as the dynamic duo before this happened.
This seems like they don't know what to do with the male characters in the series. And that they don't understand how the magic works, why it works that way, the changes they made that fundamentally change what would be the main motivations behind using it. Resurrection, etc. ugh. The relationship between warders/Aes Sedai is completely misunderstood/misrepresented. Logain being where he is, instead of where he should be, is also kind of a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work. Even more troubling is the pacing, the fact they can't cover 2 books in 8 episodes? I just don't understand what the point is, and how they are going to coherently tell a story, because, they just aren't.
I feel like they are thinking about Rand healing moiraine's Severing. But i would be so disappointed if that actually happens. Because it was a huge part of Nynaeve's journey and discovery which Rand did copy eventually but it wasn't something rand originally discovered. But if they instead they go a different root where moiriane isn't actually severed from the source but instead shielded from the source and the shield is tie off which rand can untie. But that raises another question even if the shield is tied off it will eventually be untie and i think 6 month is more than enough time. Then again if Ishamael used one power to tie off her shield then maybe it's possible. I would be fine with this storyline. I hate so many choices they made with the storyline
Someone brought up that they’ve shown Suian untying knots so she may untie moiraines shield. Which will be annoying because, like you, I absolutely love nynaeves healing storyline. If they have Rand do it I’ll be less annoyed only because they haven’t let Rand do anything yet 😭
I think she is really stilled. I think they are nixing the fox and snakes realm idea and using Moiraines stilling in place of it. Rand may heal it, or they may do her like siuan and have her healed by a woman as Siuan's keeper seems to be a pretty minor character right now.
I'm a book reader. I'm worried about Mat. It's been SIX MONTHS! And I imagine from stills we got that Mat will be tempted to grab it again. Hello? No he wouldn't? Mat knows now what that will do to him. They're making him stupid imo. I also hate Lan and Moraine's relationship. It feels like thhey overcorrected. A big gripe in season 1 was the pacing. It feels like they responded by slowing everything WAY down.
Also a book reader and i am not sure how they get back the mat we all love to be honest. Not all the issues are their fault of course but he has had barely any screen time this season.
Oh they were saying CHACHIN that finally makes sense. I figured they wouldn’t have changed the location but I just for the life of me could not parse what they were saying
This is where I’ve watched up to so far, and I have no clue what they’re doing with all the character arcs either. Agree on not loving this mean Moiraine. One of my main disconnects is that I have no sense of geography with the show, where anything is taking place, how far away places are-it all seems so random.
Egwene and Nynaeve do havw this kind of dynamic and similar issues in these two books. It isn't exactly the same and its absolutely not just about jealousy, or the other issues she airs to Elayne, but we do have that memorable trip to Tear where even Elayne is losing hwr patience with them. Also, i loved Elayne's introduction here. Their neeting with Egwene is backwards (in the books Elaybe greeted Egwene) but this is so her, and we have some strong character building right from the start. And it's fun to see her arriving with her maids. I totally headcannon that it went down very much like this in the books too :)
Except Elaynes mother was also tower trained and she had Elaida as a mentor growing up. She would know better than to think she can have maids and all that luxury in the White Tower
These videos are getting futile with how different the show has gotten. I kept saying to my wife "That's not in the book" And she finally said "is any of this in the books?! And I had to say "Actually no!"
Thank you for talking about the really weird relationship between Moraine and Lan... I haven't heard anyone else mention it but it's soooooo bad, Moraine is being incredibly rude and Lan so wishy-washy... it's just WRONG!!! I really don't like it 🙁
They just hired a hack with too-little experience and a personal ax to grind against the source material, as showrunner. The only interest I have had in the series since the FIRST episode, is watching the episodes indirectly through video essays like Bookborn's Nothing has changed for me. I have zero interest in spending my time watching episodes all the way through. The people doing the writing seem to actively hate the characters in the story and/or see them as templates to project their own sh+tty ideas.
After watching all 3 episode the most honest and sad thing i can say is that i genuinely don't care about any of the characters. My emotional investment is basically zero and that makes me incredibly unhappy. So far it's a heavily mid show.
I'm surprised episode 3 didn't make you care for nynaeve! I really like how they portrayed her acceptance test. But I would agree that nothing other than that has blown me away yet.
@@Bookborngreat point. I wasn't too enamored by the test until they caught me with the swerve on the third one which was really well done. That said, she annoyed me in the books up until she went through her own arc of self discovery and stop trying to mother everyone so she's heavily in the stubborn Ny phase on my emotional spectrum.
How do I feel as a book reader? This show is weird. Totally apocryphal. It doesn't have nothing to do with the book, but it's not at all like it. They can't get a consistent tone or atmosphere. It's just weird.
I do worry to give Moraine more screen time, they'll separate her from Lan and develop a non-book story arc. I also think Mat still has the potential to go too dark.
At this point I'm hoping that in my life time someone who actually likes the Wheel of Time and likes the source material will get to adapt it in some format. Even if its animated or whatever I don't care. This isn't the Wheel of Time. It is Wheel of Timey or at least more so then season 1. So I will keep watching it for now. But yeah its just not the wheel of time. I think a lot of it has to do with Rafe's fake feminism. Like I'm a feminist, theres no reason not to be. But Rafe's idea of feminism seems to be like a parody of non feminist think feminism is. Like according to Rafe Moiraine being totally rude to Lan is feminism. Cutting the boys screen time is feminism. Mocking or deriding men is feminism. Its just silly. I hope someday someone who actually likes the Wheel of Time does something with it. That would be cool.
So to summarise, Rand is not where he needs to be and is not doing what he is supposed to be doing, so is Liandrin, Moarein, Lan, Perin, Mat, The Seanchan and Verin. Nothing to do with the books besides some names. I am disgusted.
in the Books Matt was my favorite and this is not Matt, we dont see his synical hate aes sedai attitude that will earn him his "token" and we dont see his cunning, remeber even before his " inside upgrade" he was always cunning
Here's the thing, I forgot they killed Uno in season 1. I was so focused on Loial that I legit forgot! I'm DYING. Can't believe they killed him twice. Absolutely sloppy 😭
@@Bookborn don't apologise , you aren't wrong , I'd watched your episode 3 video then it autoplayed episode 2 ..... Without me realising I'd made the comment thinking this was the episode 3 review ......my bad 😭😭😭
I agree with you. I haven’t read the books but I felt like this show had so much potential to be sooo good but the start of S2 is just like you said … SLOW and in my opinion boring and hard to rewatch. I found myself skipping through a lot of when rewatching it. I feel like a lot of the changes they made from the book that you mentioned some are OK like you say, but some seem like it shows that that change wasn’t good because I’v never have even read the book but Do not like Maureen and lands relationship, and how rude she is being and the lost of the one power . I don’t like Matt storyline it’s awful. It doesn’t make sense. They are jumping around so much like you said I’m not really getting a sense of what’s going on or like you said, where are we even trying to go? Who is the main character? Rand ? He gets so little time and his story about what’s really going on with him I’m not really even sure what his journey is or what he’s doing. They lost me with S2 ep 1-3. 😢 S1 start I thought was strong and this reallly disappointing
Matt’s role in the books is so essential but are we really going to have a show that does all that the books (15 of them) accomplish? Not with all the cup-de-sacs…
I'm highly confused with how they are going to explain Mat's luck going forward....also, the cinematography and editing gets really wonky at times. A lot of really corny speed ramps. And how many cuts did we get of Perrin being dragged by his legs? It got comical with how long he was being dragged by the Seanchan.
I'm not a fan of the Perrin wife fridge from season 1, but aside from that choice I'm most critical of the Moiraine/Lan dealing with her being cut off plotline. I REALLY want it resolved. And if this is a way of dealing with not having the Finn, then just kill her off. I adore Moiraine, and Rosamund is a blessing to the entire WoT franchise, but they need to end this asap. I'm still holding out hope they have the FInn/doorways though. Without that a lot of Mat gets super clunky and may even take his cool factor and ruin it. We'll see... I do, however, love the Rand sanatorium plotline. We get to see the gentleness that Rand has. I think it's a good example of a scene that isn't in the books, but how the book character would be if put in that scene. If that makes sense...
It was alright... be honest, I found it a bit boring. Again, building for the next episode without really capturing me. I thought Elayne was good. Might watch episode 3 tomorrow, or not see how it goes
Idk what this would do to the timeline, but I wonder if they’ve slowed down Perrin’s plot because he’s not in book 5 and they don’t want to have a gap in the show.
Spoilers ahead My prediction for Episode 4 . . . Matrim and Min meet up with Nynaeve, Egwene, Elayne, Lan and are secreted from the Tower by Liandrin, who uses the WayGate in the field not the Ogier Grove to escort them rapidly to Falme, where Elaine and Min get captured by the Seanchan further revealing their brutality. Rand comes upon Thom Merrillin in the Foregate and they both encounter Moiraine at Barthanes party when they realize that the poem Moiraine received from Battle Simon meant they had to go to Toman Head. When they emerge from the Portal Stone -- maybe Selene tricks Rand to utilize that method of travel -- they encounter Loial, Perrin and the Sheinaran's who had previously rejoined Nynaeve, Lan and company hiding from the Seanchan and on a reconnaissance mission into Flame feel the pull of the dagger on Matrim which inspires Rand to duel with Turin and battle Ishmael in the sky to confirm Verin's prophecy from Episode 1.
i think this whole moiraine being rude thing is the show fast forwarding what happens when moiraine falls through the door to season 2. i think moiraine falls through the door in like book 5 i think? i see what they are doing with moiraine and lan, but i didn't think they'd do it this fast.
Your audio is too low? You could use a good 10-15 more decibels? If you aim for a Lufs-i as close as you can get to -14 without going over, that is ideal for RUclips? Other platforms have other ideal levels? If you go over -14 Lufs-i, RUclips automatically lowers your levels, and that actually may be what is happening, so check on that? Hope that helps?
I don’t know how old Liandrin is in the books but it would be possible she is old enough to have had a child that is aging except for the fact that Reds don’t seem to go there in general and her attitude towards men does not seem amorous. The show runner seems to have a an unerring instinct for expanding “themes” at the expense of plot and the creation of plots that don’t align with the Jordan magic system and the role of the dragon reborn
As an editor, Literature Major, and long time fan of the series, my opinion is the show is hot garbage. The showrunners are on record talking about how they find Robert Jordan and his material problematic, and saying that they think they can do better. That's the problem with all the recent screen adaptations; they stand on the shoulders of giants, and completely disrespect the source material. Without respect, we reject - get woke, go broke.
If I remove myself from the books, then based on what I've heard from other people and my own ideas, I'd say the show is mid. I know very few non-book readers who are super invested, but I do have many friends that just generally enjoyed it as entertainment, but nothing they feel extremely strong about. As a book reader, it's tough. They've changed a lot I don't understand.
The Lan / Moiraine stuff is pretty much unbearable. Ridiculous on it's face but I expected that - i did not expect them to turn Moiraine into an absolute piece of shit, and it's flabbergasting. Thats the word, flabbergasting. Ok fine, you want to give her more stuff to do coz she's not really in TGH and you've got a gun actress plus Henney, gun actor - Ok. Um, this is not it. They had a great arc in TDR they could have used tbh, chasing down darkhounds, trying to find Rand - anything other than this fucking nonsense. Again, the girls stuff is close enough and fine. The stuff they add, and anything related to the boys is worse than just wrong. Its deliberate sabotage in my view.
So i just started watching season 2. There's is a sadistic side of me that just wants to see you slowly lose it as the changes accumulate more and more and the show goes off the rails
i like this season better, partially because i gave up on it being a faithful adaptation and went with the flow a little more..with that being said though ...they arent going anywhere or doing much of anything, its a 8 episode season that supposed to cover book 2 and 3...and we not done anything really, i have a feeling though that things that happen earlier in book 2 are going to be done as season final in season 2, like couple people get captured that gunna be a episode, people finding out and searching for them gunna be a episode, than someone playing a instrument and a battle happens is gunna be the final, which is a weird reworking of story lines if we combining the two books, but really think thats what they going to do
why give Rand screentime when you have to give all of it to Moiraine, Egwene, Nyaneve. i thought they were the heroes of the show. Isnt Rand just an extra^
Sure seems like it. Let's just call it _The Women Of The Third Age_ and be done with it. It's more of an annoyance for me because I just started reading the books about 2 months ago, am on Book 8, everything is fresh and current in my mind, and am realizing just how badly they have mutilated this.
Matt has always been my favorite character... I have been crushed by how poorly they have portrayed him. They have made him far darker in the show. He was always the jovial trickster that didn't ever want responsibility but always ended up doing it with aplomb... the show turned him into a gambling lecher that runs out on his friends. I can hope they lean into his luck story and make him more along those lines... "Shielding" Moraine was a hugely bad decision for the show at the end of season 1. Of course, she and Lan are not huge parts of Book 2 and 3, so they had to write SOMETHING to get their biggest star on the screen...
Ishy’s words come to mind when I think about what this show could have been:
“I win again Lews Therin”
I said this last season. The only way to recover would be to flicker and realize this was a lost world.
Lan - Books vs Show
In the books - Last Lord of the Seven Towers, True Blade of Malkier, Defender of the Wall of First Fires, Bearer of the Sword of the Thousand Lakes
In the show - Moiraine's sidekick and personal punching bag
There is one rule, above all others, for being a man. Whatever comes, face it on your feet.
-Lan Mandragoran, The Great Hunt, Chapter 7: Blood Calls Blood
Death comes sooner or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only fools are willing to pay that price.
-Lan Mandragoran, The Eye of the World, Chapter 7: Out of the Woods
Death is light as a feather; duty, heavy as a mountain.
You missed the shot of him pissing against a tree.
The feeling I continuously have with the 3 ta'veren in the show is that they are passive observers. They don't really do much. Things just happen around them or to them. In the books they are prime movers. Even early on they change things and people around them. I feel like the showwriters misunderstood this part of being ta'veren. By this part in the books. Rand has fought forsaken, realized he's the dragon reborn and is leading the hunt for the horn. Perrin has much more understanding of his abilities and has put them to use. Matt has been possessed by one of the greatest evils in the world and the search for the dagger is life or death for him. The fact that we didn't get the Fain imprisonment and escape was a real miss.
With Matt and the Dagger you gotta remember that had to change things a bit with barney Harris leaving in the middle of production. I think how it is right now is fine. The Dagger is not so relevant to Matt's story as the plot continues
THIS. I need heroes who ACT, not wallflowers who wait to be backed into a corner.
There are 5 ta'varen.
@@stewartkingsley only in this shitty adaptation. OP is referring to the books, where the three ta’veren are Rand, Mat, and Perrin (though Egwene is borderline).
@@stewartkingsleyonly three. The other two are pretenders from the show runners
The whole moiraine and Lan storyline I feel like is awful. Cutting her off from the one power and being a jerk to Lan is completely unnecessary. And as you said my number one issue with the show since it started Rand does not get enough screen time. Mat and Rand are my two favorite characters and they get the least amount of screen time of the main 5+L&M. I do think the white tower stuff been good.
Totally agree with the Moaraine/Lan storyline, reminds me of season 7 Sansa and Arya Game of Thrones vibes
Her being a jerk to him is probably the result of her being 'stilled' imo. Even Lan's outbursts are the consequences of that. I dont like it but they made some stupid changes but hopefully they are going back to normal after she gets her powers back.
And fyi, Josha still isnt a big name so they have to push the show to non-readers through Rosamund Pike or Kate Fleetwood who are experienced and more popular.
Hence, still less screen time for Rand. Hopefully by the end of the season, the show will shift towards Rand being the main character.
@@smol6193 I agree that it is the side effects of being stilled, but stilling in the first place is dumb. And I buy putting Rosamund Pike in the center of season 1. Kind of like Sean bean in game of thrones. But season 2 you have to let the other ones shine. That’s when they started to focus on kit Harrington, Emily Clarke, etc in got.
@@titans1fan93 Agree with your GOT statement. I am still positive they will give Rand more of a center role atleast in the last couple of episodes in this season. Season 1 didnt do much to excite people about characters like Rand, Mat and Perrin so giving them center role straightaway might put viewers off.
As a book fan I still want to see all our central characters given more time. Lets see what happens.
She was being a jerk to Lan in these books as well, to be fair. See TGH22. Or how she keeps trying to leave him behind in TDR. And still being a jerk to him all book so much so that Perrin picks up on it.
I was very torn if i wanted to give this season a chance. Ty for your review so i dont need to waste my time.
Glad I could help 😅
Moiraine and Lan's relationship here in the show solidifies my thinking that Rafe and Co. should be strictly relegated to CW, (aka young adult), shows. This is the vibe I get with all the relationships they're doing in the show, it's all just so juvenile in how they deal with everything.
Lan and Moiraine have been closely nit, working on the same page as far as goals and ambitions go, _for 20 years!_ Two people together for that long, especially when you factor in the Warder Bond, would be insanely close to each other. I would say akin to a "twin siblings" type of relationship. Sure, they'll argue, but ultimately they know each other so well, they respect each other's way of thinking etc. So, yeah, I really think the show is doing them dirty with a very adolescent take on how Moiraine would deal with her situation.
I don't mind the storyline of Moiraine thinking she's been Stilled, (I am of the belief she's only been Shielded). But when you think of it, it's been possibly thousands of years since any man has Shielded a woman from the Power, so, with not being able to see the weaves, I can see how she could erroneously thinks she's been cut off from the Source permanently. However, with that said, I don't trust Rafe enough that they won't actually have her as Stilled. And if they restore her by some other means, negating a certain someone's later storyline, Imma gonna be upset!
The other relationship: Rand and Selene, again, so juvenile. They think it's aging them up, but really, it's not. The whole thing with Selene is _she can't have Rand!_ His naivety and innocence in not giving in to his attraction to her drives her nuts! This is a driving force behind her character. Her jealousy drives her to do some of the over-the-top things she does, in the books. So yeah, her already having her way with Rand is jarring to me.
Elayne & Egwene actually met for the first time in The White Tower.
On TV Show, it’s actually the exact reverse of the timeline presented in the Books.
Elayne is the one who has been there for months by the time Egwene (and Nynaeve) arrive in TarValon from Shienar.
You’re being very kind calling Mat’s appearances on the Show a ‘Storyline.’
IMO, the best that can be said for this Season after 3 Episodes, is that it’s watchable, even if it makes a logical book reader‘s blood boil.
And it would be remiss of me not to make special mention of Liandrin.
Brilliant performance from Kate Fleetwood.
Also, a rare creative example from the Producers, of how to successfully create a true enigma, that plays on multiple levels, both for those who haven’t read the books and existing book fans.
As you said, Lan & Moiraine’s relationship has been mangled, massively expanding a tightly scripted moment of disagreement in the books, into this overwrought soap opera we’re getting on TV.
As for this supposed ‘sexualisation’ of the show?
None of the boys were actually ‘innocents’ in the books. They just had a strong sense of duty & propriety… which is the dynamic that works well when Selene tries and tries to seduce Rand with things that appeal to her, not least her own self.
It is here where I felt Rand distinguished himself as a character in the books. He does not shy away from his attraction (even if Jordan did engage in that tiresome teen trope of ‘does he/she really like me? I’m just a *insert humble occupation here*) but he strongly insists on doing what he feels is right according to his duty, both towards Selene and the developing plot points.
Terribly disappointed with most of the choices made so far in Season 2.
Unnecessary.
Often Stupid.
Occasionally productive.
Always inferior to what’s in the Source Material.
"You’re being very kind calling Mat’s appearances on the Show a ‘Storyline.’" LMAOOO 😭 so sad but true
@@Bookborn It is fairly accurate to the books though, Mats first POV chapter is when he wakes up in TDR from healing. I think Mats story in the Series is about to take off.
@@Harldin Not at all.
They've taken elements of Mat waking up from his Healing and corrupted them.
Firstly, the Aes Sedai propensity for withholding information, which has been reduced to Liandrin reading selectively from Perrin's letters, to make Mat think his friends have written him off.
I think you're right about whatever storyline they have in store for Mat is about to kick off after Episode 4.
Will be curious to see if The Dagger plays a part, or if he is really done with that now.
@@gearomkologenas5458 It does, there is a scene in the trailer that shows Mat with the Dagger.
Yall have a lot of faith in something that has continued to fail... But here's hoping
Imagine you got cast as Rand al'Thor in The Wheel of Time and then the role turned into a tertiary character less significant than Liandrin
They should have called it The Dragon Replaced
@@ChadWinters
"They should have called it The Dragon Replaced"
😂😂 Well done, you!
There are so many McGuffins in the books that do little more than justify filler (Bowl of the winds anyone?). They could very well cut this down to 7 books and still have the main key events. It _is_ however very worrying that the boys get so little screen time. Like Mat not having his Old Tongue stuff established by now is bizarre...
Anyway... the EF girls storyline is the most interesting at the moment. Maybe because it's the only one that seems to follow book beats somewhat.
Mat's entire plotline is stunted and I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't something Rafe planned this way but is a result of losing him for a quarter of the episodes in season 1. So whereas Perrin's internal thoughts/feelings were "pruned" purposefully and replaced by the wife fridge (like it or not), Mat's was likely far less planned out. I hope BOTH arcs/characters thrive, like a cut back rose bush, once they've had a season to re-establish them properly. So far, so good, imho.
@@thane9 Here's to hoping!
Thank you so much for making these, it’s been a second since I read books 2 & 3. I will say after the end of season 1 went off the rails with stilling Moraine, and then starting season 2 with almost everyone in places they are not supposed to be, I’m having a really hard time watching this season and getting interested in it. I’ll keep trying… but they made some very odd choices. I understand omitting parts of the books, but doing that while also adding in so many elements that aren’t in the books makes me wonder how they’re going to tell the story. I agree with you that the plot doesn’t seem to be moving along very well, but you’re being super kind in these videos and as unbiased as possible lol!
In the bonus content, Rafe says something like “The other characters around Rand drive the story” … Rafe clearly wanted Nynaeve to be the main character not Rand IMO
Orrr hear me out, through the whole story, there are many other characters that help Rand defeat the dark one. He Ultimately is not able to do it by himself. Even at the end in Shayol Gul he needs the help of several people. And that's a big theme in the books. He actually has less reading time than other character through the majority of the books. So the show is just making that more apparent from the get go that it is an ensemble cast which they have already said.
He will still get his moments. But the show is doing a good job on budding up on the other main characters so when they become really important it won't be out of nowhere. Rand just sorta of becomes important immediately with all sorts of talent and moods. Obviously he gets some training. But in many ways he is like a Mary sue at times. And we will watch it unfold
@@mrgermanvono35 could be…ultimately until we get the full story as Rafe imagined it (and I do hope we get 8 seasons) we won’t know for sure if the first season and half was a set-up for the second half of the whole series!
4:54 difference was in the books Nynaeve was Egwene's superior. When they get to the Tower Nynaeve is fast tracked to being an accepted, so she stays as Egwene's superior. But Nynaeve suffers from her block while Egwene excels in lessons.
In the show they're basically equals from the start (or at least act like it), then they're both novices together. Egwene is jealous of Nynaeve's strength and abilities (when she can channel) while Egwene suffers from being slow to learn lessons (because she sees the problems with requiring gestures, so she *intentionally* does things in a more difficult way - but still whines about it).
The removal of the Purity Culture of the Two Rivers -- crucial to prevent pregnancies in a world without contraceptives -- is one of my biggest complaints with the adaptation. That Purity Culture is essential to the World Building of this alternate world, though it is understandably inserted to draw in viewers, sadly. Perrin's blushes with the Tuatha'An and both Rand's and Perrin's reluctance to share a bath with women in Fal Dara was IMO integral to their characters. Rand and Selene sharing a bed is anathema to Rand's nature and Selene's motivation in the books.
Rand meets Elayne in book one, but only him, and only one scene. She doesn’t show back up until Egwene and nynaeve meet her in the white tower, so that’s actually not that different. She doesn’t start traveling with them until the middle of book two. It’s nbd, but for the sake of what you’re trying to accomplish, I felt I should point that out. Love the content!
I'm starting to feel like by the time we get to season 3, it will be easier to point out what hasn't changed from the books.
If they are at all faithful to the books getting everyone where they need to be should be pretty easy. In the Great Hunt there are multiple ways established to travel quickly from one place to another, I think it is pretty easy to forget just how far they travel in this book and not always using normal means.
Also the book has a 100+ day time jump in it somewhere around chapter 38, so that could be used to have a time jump in the show.
Yeah, I really hope we get to see a portal stone!
What a gem this channel is. Great content!! 📚
I like these comparison videos. They're thoughtful and nuanced.
Thank you for these excellent book vs series, the books sound SO MUCH better than the series, which they would actually keep true to the books!!!
"the books sound SO MUCH better than the series"
The books _are_ much, much better.
There are a couple of extremely misandrist main characters in the books which were somewhat difficult for me to go through, but I think that's part and parcel of the world that Robert Jordan created, one where most of the main levers of power (social and political) are in the hands of women, and have been, for close to 3000 years since male Aes Sedai went insane and broke the world ( _read - caused giant tsunamis and earthquakes that caused continental shifts_ ). And as such, makes sense in the context of that world.
Calling this show an adaptation of the books is being generous to a fault.
My advice - stop watching the show and go through the books. There are 14 of them, most of them being 700+ page epics. Once you have read them, or at least finished book 7, come back to the show.
Mat will probably need to be healed again after this season. He'll follow the hunt, find Fain, grab the dagger and have to be healed again. This would put him where he needs to be for the big plot points and where he needs to be for the next season and the changes to his character.
You're 100% spot on! A lot of weird choices. Hoping it pays off in the end.
The Rand/Loial/Hurin adventure in book 2 is one of my top 3 favorite storylines in the books, I am so sad to see it completely gutted here.
You nailed a lot of points I would have too. Why is everybody split up? Are they trying to correct what they did to Mat’s personality in the first season and make him more like he’s actually written in the books? Since it has been so long, since I read the first six books, I am enjoying your recaps.
I agree, I remember a much more jovial and light hearted Mat for sure. I liked the actor from season 1 but i didn't feel like the personality was quite right. Mat had the merry prankster vibe not the brooding woe is me guy, at least that's how i remember it.
@@Saerwen_Celeste you remember correctly. Not clear why they made his backstory so dark. I really question changes like that.
I was only halfway paying attention to the Perrin scene, but I was thinking maybe Perrin “seeing” the past was him being able to smell what had happened there
Ohhh that’s a good interpretation!
It's possible that's what they were going for. Sadly given the history of the show to this point, it feels like just another Rand moment given to other characters.
No one can smell interactions, just who was there.
7:43 It isn't bizarre considering how they treated Rand in Season 1. Also, Rafe in the post-episode "extras" said he doesn't want to focus much on Rand. Which is stupid imo considering he is literally the Main Character and has some of the best and most complex and fleshed out arc in the story.
Thank you for making these breakdowns, your insights truly add so much to the story, specially because I have not read the books yet. Please consider making a spoiler heavy review in the future, I love your videos and look forward to the future episodes breakdowns.
Thank you! I will probably go much more into spoilers in the final breakdown of the season!
Agreed , lol I want the spoilers , it might help to keep watching this hot mess if I can have some hope of where it could go
Why would you watch the review before the episode? Lol
I read it as Liandrin was visiting her son yes, i think they are combining Elaida and Liandrin. They need to simplify and combine characters as there are simply too many characters for 8 seasons. I agree we need more of rand. I really hope they can get mat on track, he is the favourite of so many people.
I think the weakest plot is the Lan/Moiraine interaction as well, i completely agree. As for the other changes, overall i don't mind but i think i am unusual for an RJ fan. There are many beautiful moments in the series which i have read 20+ times, Perrins letter to Faile (in the two rivers) flat out made me cry as did the final fate of Jain and there were dozens of fist pumping moments. But the books weren't perfect for me and i would be quite happy if they dropped the whole tylin storyline and half the andor politics storyline :). So i am not too stressed about changes as long as they work.
Overall i liked the first 2 episodes, and loved the third... the 3rd really got to me.
With Elaida Rafe has said they're going to use her as a character. Though if I didn't know he'd said that I'd 100% agree that it seems like they're combining them. I think they might be combining Liandren with Galina or Alviarin though since she seems to be so prominent, I'd assume they're just going to keep her that way.
@@tadious9415 combining her with alviarin would make sense. I spotted a lie to mat in E3. An outright lie so they aren't changing one thing (I am wary of spoiling non readers)
@tw7998 are you sure about that? Did you post it in the episode three video.
@@csarmii sorry, you have lost me- am i sure of what?
Lots of good thoughts, definitely agree with your final comment about having to follow five different groupings is really messing with the pacing. We have Rand, Perrin, L&M, Mat, then the White Tower group...and it just means we're stretched so thin and not really able to connect with any of the characters.
Ok I have so many thoughts and could write a book, will try not to. I definitely think these episodes (only seen first two so far) are better than last season's. Higher quality, more self-assured. But I still don't think this is a good show, and I still feel confused by their choices. Why did they decide to start everyone off in separate, new places and not really introduce people? I had no idea that was Verin until I pulled up X-ray. "Oh that's Verin!?!" And with Selene..."wait, Rand's sleeping with a random woman? Who is that...??? Didn't realize until a bit later it was supposed to be Selene." I just don't understand the dropping us in the middle of scenes and expecting us to know what's going on. I'm a book fan, and I'm still confused! Actually maybe it's better to not know the books, hence no expectations? I really didn't think the Lan/Fades fight was that great, so dimly lit and I was kinda of annoyed that him and Moiraine had to be rescued by Verin and Tomas haha.
Also I know this shouldn't bother me, but I'm still annoyed about characters that don't look right. I'm sorry, that is NOT Sheriam!!! Seriously!???
Oh and definitely agree that Perrin/Mat/Rand are getting short shrift. I did like that we got the abandoned house/flies scene, but Perrin really hasn't had much else to do. Mat is...I don't know, not sure what his character motivations are or what he's trying to do? Rand I kind of get, they're setting up his empathy for men who can channel as he realizes its his own fate to go insane...and getting him some time with Logain to get trained up in saidin. Cool I guess. But why does he have to be sleeping with Selene...
And that is another thing, the first few books are supposed to be the books that are a little lighter, a little more carefree before things get really dark. But show is already so dark and dour, it's not exactly fun to watch mostly. I'm watching it because I'm a curious book-nerd who is wondering where they're going with all this!! Curious to know how non-book readers like this.
End with a praise. I really do like the Super Girls storyline in the Tower...by far the best part of this season so far is Egwene & Nynaeve...and Elayne!! Elayne is fantastic and such a perfect Elayne...aw bless. She made me smile. Loved seeing Egwene and Elayne bond.
I cant help thinking we need 10 seasons of 10 episodes, they clearly felt there wasnt time to introduce selene properly. I will be interested to see what you think of E3, that felt closest to the books for me.
@@tw7998 I'm excited to watch E3, heard good things about it from several friends. not spoiled yet so going in blind and going to hopefully enjoy!
@@JamanMosil i look forward to hearing your opinion on the episode!.
As far as Matt goes I don't think they are "Ta'veren" enough right now, none of them have a pull towards Rand at least, they all think he's dead still. Matt's luck should come through probably in the second half of the season wherever he ends up going with Min. I wonder if he still has a draw to the dagger and so ends up following the horn, crossing paths with Rand again eventually.
Every arc is deep in pure fan fiction. The only thing I like in this entire series is Elayne.
I wouldn't say every arc, I think by episode 3 Nynaeve's arc is pretty good, but I think Mat is def suffering the most from it
@@Bookborn Nynaeve is on track, I still think she was casted terribly, but the larger beats are there. Liandrin is being oddly humanized and focused on far more then we should, considering the lack of screen time Rand has gotten. His storyline is actually the biggest departure from the source, in terms of characterization, I think he might actually be evil.
@@Bookborn
I think you can count on one thing - every male character arc will suffer, in service of building up the female characters. Rafe Judkins already did this for Season One, where it's easy to see he had an agenda and the agenda didn't have an adaptation anywhere on the cards.
For example, didn't Judkins state that he doesn't view Rand as central to the WoT storyline? What could be clearer than that?
About the only thing Rafe Judkins has in common with Robert Jordan are his initials.
Moraine from the show is absolutely written by the people who wrote Galadriel from Rings of power....its not the same Moraine from the books at all
It seems like the showrunner and writers hate the books and want to "correct" it. I hate HATE what they are doing to the amazing original story.
@Bookborn
What you mentioned about Rand being innocent in the books is especially relevant - in the books - because Rand develops later into a tortured soul who feels the weight of the world on his shoulders as he tries in vain to slog towards The Last Battle while trying to keep as many people as possible alive, particularly women ( _a character trait that I felt was a silly example of chivalry on Rand's part, especially when it robs women that would willingly give up their lives for him of agency - I was referring to the Far Dareis Mei_ ). One who will use people without a second thought and hate himself at every step for doing it. It would have been so interesting to see that character develop over the series.
Pity that Rafe Judkins will do no such thing as he gives any empowering thing that happens to the male characters from the book series to his favorite female characters, in a useless attempt to emulate The Strong Female Character™ , not realizing that turning characters into Mary and John Sues robs them of any interesting aspects whatsoever.
As an example, take Nynaeve training with the Warders. I'm guessing that that will be used later to demonstrate that the Strong Female Character™ does not need help from any silly little Warder.
Rosamund Pike is a producer on the show, so any changes to Moiraine and Lan's relationship are probably coming from her.
So many, many new plot lines and so many missing from the books. They might introduce most characters and get them all together and ready for Tear and Callandor (or Falme) at the end of the season, but the characters and the road there is so different that it seems to be a completely different story. I think they have to change it to very loosely based on RJ's WoT.
Idk whose idea it was to give Rafe Judkins this property but they need to be punished. Why? I get adapting when need be, but not only are their changes unneeded, they’re BAD.
Rafe Judkin's _Wheel Of Time_ series is an "adaptation" the same way Quentin Tarantino's _Inglorious Basterds_ was a documentary about World War II.
I feel we haven’t gotten to know Matt at all compared to the books because we missed the entire Thom and Bayle Domon storyline.
In fairness Mat doesn’t have much going on in the first two books other than “dagger”. His storyline doesn’t really start in earnest until 3, so I think they can recover it
Yeah, the heal on Mat was so quick we could forget it even happened. And IIRC Moiraine alone performed the heal. The book required more...a lot more. But yeah, he's healed of the knife.
Rand getting a job at a mental hospital kinda lost me for a bit. The shienarans were great and i thought the fight scene with the seanchen was really good. Sad to lose Uno but i hope the decide to give Ragan more of a storyline. I always thought RJ did the shienarans dirty in the books
It was later than book 3. There's a doorway. after that, Moiraine's relationship with Lan changes dramatically and basically becomes what they're showing it to be now. But she has a concrete reason for this there. Right now, she has no reason whatsoever to be pushing him away. If anything, she needs him more now than ever. and I think a sane show runner would see this.
I think mat’s the most concerning, but that also makes sense with the real world stuff. But with min’s vision in this ep, I think the dagger is still around somehow. Idk how they’re gonna do it, but it seems like they’re setting it up, however slowly. Perrin, I think is gonna be developed quite a bit in this season and get us caught up to where he should be. And Rand just seems like we’ve fast forwarded a bit, passing over his doubt about his fate. It’s sort already resolved into an acceptance of what he has to do, so that feels about right since we have less time to do all of this. I’ve just got to zoom out enough to see it from high level character motivations and traits and I can accept it, but the plot is never going to match up 1:1 at this point. Maybe in season 4 or 5, but enough has already been changed that it will ripple down. I just want them to get that far, honestly. I love seeing these characters I love on screen, even if some of the metaphysics and other stuff seems wonky.
As someone who has never read the books this is objectively one of the best fantasy series ever.
Ooohhh interesting! Glad you’re loving it. Do you watch a lot of fantasy shows?
Thanks for doing these - the combining of characters and the new plots are really messing with my book memory - or lack there of. And I think I blocked out a lot of the first season :)
It's sad because his innocence plays a huge part of his interpersonal journey
The Lan Moiraine relationship does very much feel like that antagonism from later, but exaggerated for TV. I'd be interested to hear / read show only people's opinions on it. On Perrin, I'm actually kind of happy because it feels like we are getting the things we missed on Perrin S1, but also they have a lot of trauma for him to overcome considering how dirty they done him in S1. I'm still sad our Seanchan don't have Texas southern drawl like in the books! But so far nothing has broken the story (Aside from S1 Egwene's healing and Loial's Stabbing that we are moving on from!) Probably the thing I'm worried the most on is the 8 episode thing. I really really think we just need more episodes to cover ground that we need to cover and I'm worried we won't get where we need to go (Unless some people learn some stuff WAY EARLIER THAN THEY DO IN THE BOOKS).
// But so far nothing has broken the story (Aside from S1 Egwene's healing and Loial's Stabbing that we are moving on from!)
There have been so many changes and I question whether they thought those things through.
* S1: Siuan and Moiraine talk about the Prophecies of the Dragon and establish that they are unreliable. Like there are so many versions and they contradict each other and can't be trusted. Which I get: the showrunner grew up as a closeted gay man in the middle of conservative Mormon country. The last thing he'd be friendly to is the idea of any sort of religious seeming prophecy. But the knock on effects are that now using the Karaethon Cycle as foreshadowing doesn't work when they've been undermined like that. Plus all sorts of engagement is built by people theorizing about what this or that bit of prophecy could mean. Instead, they're all worthless.
* S1: Moiraine's voiceover in E1 clearly establishes that men caused the current bad status quo because they sought to "cage the Darkness" because of hubris. Further elaborating on this issue in E8's cold open, there was no need to do this: the men were portrayed as making trouble when they did not need to. There was no urgency of humanity about to lose the War of the Shadow, which *necessitated* action, as in the source material. The whole point was that men and women couldn't work together. The women all refused to help men in their plan, which led to them going off alone and possibly contributed to Saidin being tainted. wot.fandom.com/wiki/Fateful_Concord
The series theme of Saidin being a metaphor for toxic masculinity and healing the world by men and women working together, has been turned into theming of: men arrogant + men do bad things.
* The Emond's Fielders in the source material start out naive, innocent, ignorant of the world. A lot of emotional punch comes from watching their idealism run smack into reality as they go from an isolated, racially homogenous village, out into the cosmopolitan world where they have to open their minds and grow to accept things beyond their little provincial town. Making Emond's Field as cosmopolitan and diverse as a big city was a HUGE change that completely undermines all that. Like if the writers really WANTED to push open-mindedness, it would be more effective to have close minded people discover the real world in all its diversity and grow as a result. Instead, they already live in that world so there's nowhere for them to go.
* So many men in the series have been rewritten to be a++holes. Book Lord Agelmar greets Moiraine respectfully, as if she were a member of the family. TV Agelmar acts like a pompous douche nozzle, presumably to give his sister and Moiraine an excuse to dunk on stupid men.
Mat Cauthon is inexplicably changed from an irresponsible kid who learns to grow and accept responsibility, to a walking addiction metaphor that steals from people in a "small town."
Abell Cauthon goes from being a respected/respectable member of the community that Mat wants to live up to, to a good-for-nothing abusive waste of space.
* Women in a circle. cannot. burn. out. There's a natural buffer against it, which the show's writers choose to ignore so they can have drama in Episode 8.
* Nyneave mass heals the entire room full wounded people with a nova burst of energy that also knocks out someone who's supposed to be more powerful than her, and all before she even knows how to channel. In the books, with the exception of Rand with his past-life knowledge, there is narrative set-up before channelers do awesome things. They train and fail repeatedly before earning the right to be awesome. Even Rand fails to be consistent in his magic use and hits a wall until Asmodean tutors him. In the show, people do whatever the writers need them to do with the Power, regardless of whether it has been narratively set-up before hand.
This is far from an exhaustive list of things they've done differently that have already created narrative problems and will continue to do so moving forward.
Whether the story is "broken" or not is wildly subjective.
@@FeebleAntelope
Think about an infinite replaying cycle. Every decision makes a small probability ripple across the pattern. Major nodes for major events have to occur but even the books say there are cycles where things go the other way.
The Aes Sedai narrative is as flawed as the gleemans over a long enough time period. Obviously the women who think they are in control of the world, will warp it's histories to match their narratives. I 100% expect to get some sick bombshell moments in Rhuidean with all the characters, probably next season.
My point is, consider the unreliable narrator.
Now considering that the Seanchan came to Falme which is on the SHORELINE, and then started to spread outward into Toman Head and Almoth Plain which is the closest places to Falme, HOW THE F do they expect people to think they just showed up near the borderlands which is completely landlocked and presumably, based on the size of the map, hundreds of miles from the shoreline at the very least? Where are their Grolm and other exotic beasts of warfare?
By this time, Rand should be an established Dragon reborn looking for the horn of Valere, Perrin should be an established wolf sensing and communicating ax man even if he disliked violence and preferred smith work. Mat should have never been that dark or cowardly. More of a jovial youth with a dagger that made him hyper suspicious. I don't remember his old tongue and dice truly being established until late book 2 or early book 3, but the first season ruined his arc by chickening out at the way gate. It's not a bad show, but this isn't even coming close to following the books.
"Rand... they're just not giving them any screen time."
Honestly from being partway through the books that seems extremely accurate lol. There's a MASSIVE stretch where almost no characters aside from Nynaeve and Elayne get enough time on the page, and those two get WAY too much. Like I was desperately hoping Egwene chapters wouldn't end because I knew it would mean I would have to read for like 6 hours straight before even MAYBE seeing her again. And it doesn't help that Nynaeve and Elayne are very deliberately written to be horrible people to everyone around them. In Elayne's case it's a lot more nuanced (she's incapable of discarding her mental complex as a princess and her new one as an Aes Sedai, and therefore incapable of recognising other people as equals and rather as 'subjects' and so constantly disregards advice from others around her).
But both of them repeatedly endanger other people's lives unnecessarily and get mad at anyone who points it out. Both of them 100% would have gotten themselves killed through their own stupidity on multiple occasions but other people bailed them out, and they show absolutely no gratitude. If anything, they become even more aggressive. Both eventually promise to stop this behaviour and then IMMEDIATELY revert. Again, it's deliberate (since other characters call them out), so I get the feeling they might be among my favourites by the end of the series when they actually do learn from their mistakes, but the two most hateable characters become the main characters, and this has gone on for like 3 books straight. Rand, Matt, Perrin and Egwene feel like they're part of a different book series and are only brought in for cameos to push the story from one book to the next once Nynaeve and Elayne drag out enough pages.
And honestly the only thing that's making me consider pushing through this is people saying Season 2 of the show is actually getting decent. So I'd prefer to read the books before the show catches up because the books will be the better experience.
Two videos in one day!
Nothing here sounds like the books. It really is a "new turning of the wheel" and this time the Dark One has won having already turned Rand. Or I should say Rent Boy Rand who it seems is selling sex for lodgings. My only consolation is that given Selene's tendency towards jealousy she will jump straight to the Tower and kill Egwene. It should be pointed out too that Rand was petrified of staying too long in one place and yet here we are spending months doing nothing. Oops what am I saying, he's already shacked up with the Forsaken so why does he need to worry about them any more 🤷♂
Yeah I rant about this in the video going up right now (episode 3 lol) but I really hate Rand/Selene right now. But they got rid of "on the run" in season 1, so I finally got over that lol
I just watched this episode, I feel like I have to pace myself because I end up hating them so much. The Moiraine/Lan stuff is horrible, I don't know why they decided to make Moiraine so nasty and why they stilled her or shielded her, whatever. The books had an amazing storyline for all of the characters and they have changed it so much and made it into something so different they might as well just change the name of the show and rename all of the characters and treat it like an entirely separate fantasy show.
Never read, only watched. Mat was one of my favorites in season one, season two it feels like the show writers didn't trust their audience to follow along. The line from the show that had me laughing with ridiculousness: I think it was when Neuneive was in the arches and her vision daughter was on the farm and a man rides up on a horse and the daughters line is literally, "Look it's Mat!"
To paraphrase Logain, the writers are trying to figuratively castrate the male characters.
This is girl boss ensemble series first and foremost. The boys are supporting characters at best.
I think you’re right that we need more screen time with Rand.
I'm still sticking to my prediction, Matt turns bad in this adaptation... Min's vision? I think we really are seeing a future there.
I can’t accept that 😭😭 please no!
after watching it all, I really really strongly feel that this is a story written in the 6th age or later by a red, based upon fragments she found of verins and loials writings and other writings in the tower archives that might have survived... Seriously, if you watch this whole s1-s2 series, through the eyes of a red; this is kinda like how the story might've been rewritten. perhaps with a browns assistance, in case the red would get too far off track, but yeah... xD
That also kinda explains the 'importance' of liandrin in guiding nynaeve in this story, how the warder-aes sedai bond became more of a love/pleasure bond than it should and also why we spend less time with rand and the other (male) emondsfielders. Also, after such a long time, people may very well have misconstrued how mins gift works, so in that regard it would also make sense.. kinda..
Kinda, really wish, that the showrunners had told us upfront that they would reframe the story through the eyes of a red after ages had come and gone after the last battle during the fourth age... xD; Then everything would make a heck of a lot more sense, to me at least xD
also, saw on twitter a while back that rafe had a red sister over for dinner or something like that, which got me thinking about the series being written from the pov of a red xD
It’s my understanding that due to scheduling when a lot of Covid restrictions lightened up, a lot of the actors probably had other commitments so getting everyone together at the same time probably wasn’t possible. I don’t think the show really came together well until episode five. Personally, I can’t get used to the new actor for Matt and I do think all of the various plot lines are disproportionate. LAN and M‘s relationship probably bothers me the most. I’m a show only watcher, but I feel like I wanted more time with them as the dynamic duo before this happened.
Sul'dam wear ankle length dark blue dresses with panels of red and silver forks of lightning bolts.
This seems like they don't know what to do with the male characters in the series. And that they don't understand how the magic works, why it works that way, the changes they made that fundamentally change what would be the main motivations behind using it. Resurrection, etc. ugh. The relationship between warders/Aes Sedai is completely misunderstood/misrepresented. Logain being where he is, instead of where he should be, is also kind of a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work. Even more troubling is the pacing, the fact they can't cover 2 books in 8 episodes? I just don't understand what the point is, and how they are going to coherently tell a story, because, they just aren't.
I agree that they are not covering much material in the 8 episodes for an entire book.
I feel like they are thinking about Rand healing moiraine's Severing. But i would be so disappointed if that actually happens. Because it was a huge part of Nynaeve's journey and discovery which Rand did copy eventually but it wasn't something rand originally discovered. But if they instead they go a different root where moiriane isn't actually severed from the source but instead shielded from the source and the shield is tie off which rand can untie. But that raises another question even if the shield is tied off it will eventually be untie and i think 6 month is more than enough time. Then again if Ishamael used one power to tie off her shield then maybe it's possible.
I would be fine with this storyline.
I hate so many choices they made with the storyline
Someone brought up that they’ve shown Suian untying knots so she may untie moiraines shield. Which will be annoying because, like you, I absolutely love nynaeves healing storyline. If they have Rand do it I’ll be less annoyed only because they haven’t let Rand do anything yet 😭
I think she is really stilled. I think they are nixing the fox and snakes realm idea and using Moiraines stilling in place of it. Rand may heal it, or they may do her like siuan and have her healed by a woman as Siuan's keeper seems to be a pretty minor character right now.
@@Bookborn
Rand? Who's that? 😉
As someone on these threads commented, they should call him The Dragon Replaced.
I'm a book reader. I'm worried about Mat. It's been SIX MONTHS! And I imagine from stills we got that Mat will be tempted to grab it again. Hello? No he wouldn't? Mat knows now what that will do to him. They're making him stupid imo. I also hate Lan and Moraine's relationship. It feels like thhey overcorrected. A big gripe in season 1 was the pacing. It feels like they responded by slowing everything WAY down.
Also a book reader and i am not sure how they get back the mat we all love to be honest. Not all the issues are their fault of course but he has had barely any screen time this season.
To be fair I kinda expected Selene to call Rand , Lews Therin 😁
Chachin which is in Kandor.
Oh they were saying CHACHIN that finally makes sense. I figured they wouldn’t have changed the location but I just for the life of me could not parse what they were saying
I am also trying to be generous with my favor but, S,2 was pretty jarring for me to get my head set in terms of differences between book & film
I think they said they met in Chachin, the capitol of Kandor
This is where I’ve watched up to so far, and I have no clue what they’re doing with all the character arcs either. Agree on not loving this mean Moiraine.
One of my main disconnects is that I have no sense of geography with the show, where anything is taking place, how far away places are-it all seems so random.
Egwene and Nynaeve do havw this kind of dynamic and similar issues in these two books. It isn't exactly the same and its absolutely not just about jealousy, or the other issues she airs to Elayne, but we do have that memorable trip to Tear where even Elayne is losing hwr patience with them.
Also, i loved Elayne's introduction here. Their neeting with Egwene is backwards (in the books Elaybe greeted Egwene) but this is so her, and we have some strong character building right from the start. And it's fun to see her arriving with her maids. I totally headcannon that it went down very much like this in the books too :)
Except Elaynes mother was also tower trained and she had Elaida as a mentor growing up. She would know better than to think she can have maids and all that luxury in the White Tower
@@kevinadams5592 she doesn't. So what?
These videos are getting futile with how different the show has gotten. I kept saying to my wife "That's not in the book" And she finally said "is any of this in the books?! And I had to say "Actually no!"
Thank you for talking about the really weird relationship between Moraine and Lan... I haven't heard anyone else mention it but it's soooooo bad, Moraine is being incredibly rude and Lan so wishy-washy... it's just WRONG!!! I really don't like it 🙁
They just hired a hack with too-little experience and a personal ax to grind against the source material, as showrunner.
The only interest I have had in the series since the FIRST episode, is watching the episodes indirectly through video essays like Bookborn's
Nothing has changed for me. I have zero interest in spending my time watching episodes all the way through.
The people doing the writing seem to actively hate the characters in the story and/or see them as templates to project their own sh+tty ideas.
After watching all 3 episode the most honest and sad thing i can say is that i genuinely don't care about any of the characters. My emotional investment is basically zero and that makes me incredibly unhappy. So far it's a heavily mid show.
I'm surprised episode 3 didn't make you care for nynaeve! I really like how they portrayed her acceptance test. But I would agree that nothing other than that has blown me away yet.
@@Bookborngreat point. I wasn't too enamored by the test until they caught me with the swerve on the third one which was really well done. That said, she annoyed me in the books up until she went through her own arc of self discovery and stop trying to mother everyone so she's heavily in the stubborn Ny phase on my emotional spectrum.
How do I feel as a book reader? This show is weird. Totally apocryphal. It doesn't have nothing to do with the book, but it's not at all like it. They can't get a consistent tone or atmosphere. It's just weird.
I do worry to give Moraine more screen time, they'll separate her from Lan and develop a non-book story arc. I also think Mat still has the potential to go too dark.
At this point I'm hoping that in my life time someone who actually likes the Wheel of Time and likes the source material will get to adapt it in some format. Even if its animated or whatever I don't care. This isn't the Wheel of Time. It is Wheel of Timey or at least more so then season 1. So I will keep watching it for now. But yeah its just not the wheel of time. I think a lot of it has to do with Rafe's fake feminism. Like I'm a feminist, theres no reason not to be. But Rafe's idea of feminism seems to be like a parody of non feminist think feminism is. Like according to Rafe Moiraine being totally rude to Lan is feminism. Cutting the boys screen time is feminism. Mocking or deriding men is feminism. Its just silly. I hope someday someone who actually likes the Wheel of Time does something with it. That would be cool.
So to summarise, Rand is not where he needs to be and is not doing what he is supposed to be doing, so is Liandrin, Moarein, Lan, Perin, Mat, The Seanchan and Verin. Nothing to do with the books besides some names. I am disgusted.
in the Books Matt was my favorite and this is not Matt, we dont see his synical hate aes sedai attitude that will earn him his "token" and we dont see his cunning, remeber even before his " inside upgrade" he was always cunning
No mention of Uno and his change .....😭😭😭
Here's the thing, I forgot they killed Uno in season 1. I was so focused on Loial that I legit forgot! I'm DYING. Can't believe they killed him twice. Absolutely sloppy 😭
@@Bookborn don't apologise , you aren't wrong , I'd watched your episode 3 video then it autoplayed episode 2 ..... Without me realising I'd made the comment thinking this was the episode 3 review ......my bad 😭😭😭
@@Bookborn
"Can't believe they killed him twice. Absolutely sloppy 😭"
Wait, what? 😂😂
I agree with you. I haven’t read the books but I felt like this show had so much potential to be sooo good but the start of S2 is just like you said … SLOW and in my opinion boring and hard to rewatch. I found myself skipping through a lot of when rewatching it. I feel like a lot of the changes they made from the book that you mentioned some are OK like you say, but some seem like it shows that that change wasn’t good because I’v never have even read the book but Do not like Maureen and lands relationship, and how rude she is being and the lost of the one power . I don’t like Matt storyline it’s awful. It doesn’t make sense. They are jumping around so much like you said I’m not really getting a sense of what’s going on or like you said, where are we even trying to go? Who is the main character? Rand ? He gets so little time and his story about what’s really going on with him I’m not really even sure what his journey is or what he’s doing. They lost me with S2 ep 1-3. 😢 S1 start I thought was strong and this reallly disappointing
Matt’s role in the books is so essential but are we really going to have a show that does all that the books (15 of them) accomplish? Not with all the cup-de-sacs…
I'm highly confused with how they are going to explain Mat's luck going forward....also, the cinematography and editing gets really wonky at times. A lot of really corny speed ramps. And how many cuts did we get of Perrin being dragged by his legs? It got comical with how long he was being dragged by the Seanchan.
I could live with much of episode 1, the lack of discipline in the tower and Perrin's "visions" apart, but episode 2 was just a big pile of nope.
I'm not a fan of the Perrin wife fridge from season 1, but aside from that choice I'm most critical of the Moiraine/Lan dealing with her being cut off plotline. I REALLY want it resolved. And if this is a way of dealing with not having the Finn, then just kill her off. I adore Moiraine, and Rosamund is a blessing to the entire WoT franchise, but they need to end this asap. I'm still holding out hope they have the FInn/doorways though. Without that a lot of Mat gets super clunky and may even take his cool factor and ruin it. We'll see...
I do, however, love the Rand sanatorium plotline. We get to see the gentleness that Rand has. I think it's a good example of a scene that isn't in the books, but how the book character would be if put in that scene. If that makes sense...
Cant do a comparison until all the episodes are aired, including at the very least season 3.
It was alright... be honest, I found it a bit boring. Again, building for the next episode without really capturing me. I thought Elayne was good.
Might watch episode 3 tomorrow, or not see how it goes
Idk what this would do to the timeline, but I wonder if they’ve slowed down Perrin’s plot because he’s not in book 5 and they don’t want to have a gap in the show.
Well, now she IS that old. Canon? What's that? Rafe, ever heard of that?
This season is not an improvement at all and the writers are continuing to demonstrate their ineptitude and disrespect for Robert Jordan.
Spoilers ahead
My prediction for Episode 4 . . . Matrim and Min meet up with Nynaeve, Egwene, Elayne, Lan and are secreted from the Tower by Liandrin, who uses the WayGate in the field not the Ogier Grove to escort them rapidly to Falme, where Elaine and Min get captured by the Seanchan further revealing their brutality. Rand comes upon Thom Merrillin in the Foregate and they both encounter Moiraine at Barthanes party when they realize that the poem Moiraine received from Battle Simon meant they had to go to Toman Head. When they emerge from the Portal Stone -- maybe Selene tricks Rand to utilize that method of travel -- they encounter Loial, Perrin and the Sheinaran's who had previously rejoined Nynaeve, Lan and company hiding from the Seanchan and on a reconnaissance mission into Flame feel the pull of the dagger on Matrim which inspires Rand to duel with Turin and battle Ishmael in the sky to confirm Verin's prophecy from Episode 1.
i think this whole moiraine being rude thing is the show fast forwarding what happens when moiraine falls through the door to season 2. i think moiraine falls through the door in like book 5 i think? i see what they are doing with moiraine and lan, but i didn't think they'd do it this fast.
Min view Mat stabbing Rand just make super anxious.
Your audio is too low? You could use a good 10-15 more decibels? If you aim for a Lufs-i as close as you can get to -14 without going over, that is ideal for RUclips? Other platforms have other ideal levels? If you go over -14 Lufs-i, RUclips automatically lowers your levels, and that actually may be what is happening, so check on that? Hope that helps?
I don’t know how old Liandrin is in the books but it would be possible she is old enough to have had a child that is aging except for the fact that Reds don’t seem to go there in general and her attitude towards men does not seem amorous. The show runner seems to have a an unerring instinct for expanding “themes” at the expense of plot and the creation of plots that don’t align with the Jordan magic system and the role of the dragon reborn
is the tv show of wheel of time any good? or is it garbage.
As an editor, Literature Major, and long time fan of the series, my opinion is the show is hot garbage. The showrunners are on record talking about how they find Robert Jordan and his material problematic, and saying that they think they can do better. That's the problem with all the recent screen adaptations; they stand on the shoulders of giants, and completely disrespect the source material. Without respect, we reject - get woke, go broke.
If I remove myself from the books, then based on what I've heard from other people and my own ideas, I'd say the show is mid. I know very few non-book readers who are super invested, but I do have many friends that just generally enjoyed it as entertainment, but nothing they feel extremely strong about. As a book reader, it's tough. They've changed a lot I don't understand.
oh ok. got it. sometimes tv show directors can get carried out with the changes.@@Bookborn
The Lan / Moiraine stuff is pretty much unbearable. Ridiculous on it's face but I expected that - i did not expect them to turn Moiraine into an absolute piece of shit, and it's flabbergasting. Thats the word, flabbergasting. Ok fine, you want to give her more stuff to do coz she's not really in TGH and you've got a gun actress plus Henney, gun actor - Ok. Um, this is not it. They had a great arc in TDR they could have used tbh, chasing down darkhounds, trying to find Rand - anything other than this fucking nonsense. Again, the girls stuff is close enough and fine. The stuff they add, and anything related to the boys is worse than just wrong. Its deliberate sabotage in my view.
So i just started watching season 2.
There's is a sadistic side of me that just wants to see you slowly lose it as the changes accumulate more and more and the show goes off the rails
i like this season better, partially because i gave up on it being a faithful adaptation and went with the flow a little more..with that being said though ...they arent going anywhere or doing much of anything, its a 8 episode season that supposed to cover book 2 and 3...and we not done anything really, i have a feeling though that things that happen earlier in book 2 are going to be done as season final in season 2, like couple people get captured that gunna be a episode, people finding out and searching for them gunna be a episode, than someone playing a instrument and a battle happens is gunna be the final, which is a weird reworking of story lines if we combining the two books, but really think thats what they going to do
I agree that they simply aren't using time correctly. We have a lot of ground to cover in 5 episodes, but maybe the other ones will be quickly paced.
why give Rand screentime when you have to give all of it to Moiraine, Egwene, Nyaneve. i thought they were the heroes of the show. Isnt Rand just an extra^
Sure seems like it. Let's just call it _The Women Of The Third Age_ and be done with it.
It's more of an annoyance for me because I just started reading the books about 2 months ago, am on Book 8, everything is fresh and current in my mind, and am realizing just how badly they have mutilated this.
I read the books a long time ago. I don't remember all the details, but the series FEELS different. The overall vibe is just kinda off
Also.... WHERE IS LEWS THERIN???
Matt has always been my favorite character... I have been crushed by how poorly they have portrayed him. They have made him far darker in the show. He was always the jovial trickster that didn't ever want responsibility but always ended up doing it with aplomb... the show turned him into a gambling lecher that runs out on his friends. I can hope they lean into his luck story and make him more along those lines...
"Shielding" Moraine was a hugely bad decision for the show at the end of season 1. Of course, she and Lan are not huge parts of Book 2 and 3, so they had to write SOMETHING to get their biggest star on the screen...