I absolutely love my GX80 especially when paired with the Pana Leica 15mm f1.7 which is the lens you should've bought instead of the 20mm. Really fast and sharp........superb lens!
Thank you George for this comparison. I own the GX85/9 and have no intention to purchase the S9. The S9 is being marketed for context creators. I am not in that market. From my perspective as a street photographer, the S9 is a suboptimal body. Glad you purchased a cheap 35mm plastic view finder. I’m sure that substantially improved your experience. The GX85 is a lovely camera for street photography. Small and lightweight. Very nice image quality. The Hd video is nice but of course LUMIX for some reason disabled the body by not including an audio jac. Why LUMIX did you do that? As you point out, there is a large selection of nice M43 glass available. The L mount doesn’t have a wide choice of lenses for the S9. The price comparison between these bodies is crazy. The GX85 plus lens is bout 1/4 the price of the S9 without the lens. I’m not convinced the full frame sensor is worth anywhere near the price premium for the S9. To be fair, the S9 isn’t designed with street photography in mind. In this comparison the GX85 is the clear winner. So will LUMIX put the G9ii guts in the S9 body? I hope so. Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)
The lumix GX series is very good value. I picked up a GX9, 12-32 kit lens (in originalbox), plus 25mm F1.7, 14mm F2.5, and Oly 40-150 F4.0 to 5.6 for just £500. Everything works, and it works well with my existing Olympus M4/3 lenses. As for street photgraphy, shallow depth of field is a disadvantage, in my opinion as it might as well be studio work if the depth of field doesn’t give a clue to the location.
S9 for me. I can buy a single good zoom lens and be done with it due to the hybrid zoom. That in itself is a good value knowing how expensive lenses are.
Can't agree more, George. I had the GX80 for a few years now, and it is a fantastic camera, and with EVF!!! Never seen the need for a FF camera too. I've taken it on many holidays over the years, with the 12-32mm lens and that's all I need to get great images. As I've said before the Panasonic S9 is a still born camera. A camera desperately looking for someone to buy it.
I have GX9 for this exact purpose, and for some years I've been ignoring 12-32mm lens. Recently I took it out... and now I feel like a doofus for ignoring it for so long. It's amazing.
Hello, I also own the DMC-GX80. An excellent camera... ...However, I would recommend the Leica 15mm F/1.7 lens. I have had the Lumix 20mm in the past. The sharpness is superb, but it has 3 major flaws for me: - Pumping during focusing. - Latency during focusing. - Audible pumping noise during focusing, recordable in video mode. Best regrards,
True, the gx80 has no special video specifications, no microphone input, but the 4k 25/30p combined with the stabilized sensor also allows you to shoot beautiful footage. Obviously, if you work with video it can't be your only camera, but it can be a second camera or a travel camera for video too.
I have both GX85 (GX80) and S9 (also GX1 and G9). Only thing I don't like about S9 is missing EVF. I'll look for "OVF" on this video. Thank you! I paired GX85 with Lumix 14mm f2.5 pancake lens but my favorite lens is Lumix Leica 15mm f1.7 - probably the best lens for M43 body. For S9 I ordered Voitlander Ultron 35mm f1.7 (with m39 to L adapter). Both are fantastic cameras. Both takes 4K video as well, but open gate 6K on S9 and LUT function is awesome.
Aaah the gx80 🫶🫶🫶🫶 my second biggest selling regret after the Pen F. (Now I juat hoard everything to be on the safe side 😂) Now, if we could just have a new gx80 🤷♀️🤞
A tip for those shooting with the gx80 for autofocus: use point focus! Just tap on the screen to choose the area and focus. It's pretty quick and snappy (probably nothing close to the top end these days) but I actually prefer it to full autofocus cuz I can be more specific about what is actually in focus. No focus on the tip of the nose!
I loved the GX85 when I owned it. A big regret getting rid of it. If they come out with the same form factor with their new autofocus system it would be my forever camera.
I used the GX80 for four years, a fab camera. I now use the GX9, even better! I bought mine a few years ago, new, for less than you paid for your second hand GX80! This is how crazy the second hand market is now. Pany should release a new GX camera, it makes much more sense. By the way, I mostly use the electronic shutter, it works well. The 4K video on the GX80 and GX9 is good in my opinion. The AF is also pretty good, at least I find it fast!
@@garethbragdon5714 I don't see a difference between 16 and 20mpx. Both cameras take great photos. I would not have upgraded but there was a great deal on the GX9. I do prefer the GX9 for the little tweaks that are the differences.
GX80 has an EVF which the S9 lacking is just wild to me. I can't fathom how LUMIX saw the S9 and the demand for rangefinder style cameras and didn't add an EVF. I have an S5ii and really love it but would've instantly traded it for an S9 with an EVF.
Panasonic has explained why there is no EVF - one of the reasons is to prioritise certain elements like IBIS and keeping the size down, and who they are targeting. That won’t work out for all but personally, it’s not an issue for me - I use a viewfinder only 90% of the time and with street, virtually none of the time.
@@ignatiussloane if it had a tilt screen it would be less egregious. Panasonic can say what they want about design but it seems genuinely pretty lacking in terms of direction.
@@GrainOnTheGo an articulated screen makes more sense for vlogging, selfies etc which suit the SNS market that Panasonic have said it’s for. How well that does, we’ll see - it’s certainly not pitched at the traditional experience and from what I’ve seen from comments in Asia, it seems to resonate with that SNS usage. Although I like tilt screens in some usage particularly street shooting (although I should say that most of the time I compose by eye), I find an articulated one more useful more generally, particularly when travelling. The GX9 was marketed in the UK (where I’m based) and I think it Europe as a ‘premier street and travel camera’ and personally, I think it was a great choice (although I did love the GX80). Would love a new GX camera but my understanding is that the range has never sold well.
@ignatiussloane Over in China I know the s9 was ruthlessly mocked by people online. The reps at the Panasonic flagship store in Shanghai are ashamed to even show it to people.
If I was going to replace my GX85 with a full frame I would go with the Sony A7C. I just can't live without an EVF. And you're right about the lens options and price difference between Lumix L and Sony. Back to MFT, the Olympus 45mm is a great prime in a tiny package for "across the street" photography and portraits. I always carry it with the 20mm and a Laowa 7.5mm in a small bag.
Depth of field between different sensor sizes isn't really a consideration if you're doing street photography IMHO. If you're shooting street, quite often you're zone focusing, or at east shooting narrower apertures to ensure you nail acceptable focus. At that point, the benefits of one sensor size over another is negated.
Great! I just did the same, bought an old Yashica wide/tele accessory OVF for the vintage Yaschica GSN rangefinder film camera, and plan to use it with one of my adapted 35mm M Mount lenses and plan to take it out for a shoot this weekend. I keep the S9 on aperture priority, keep the lens at F8, and limit the shutter to 1/60 and ISO on AUTO. Will also try with the Sigma 45mm F2.8 AF, which I bought. I bought the S9 after years of using the Leica Q and Q2, which, while both very good, had a lens that was still too wide for me, and the overall size was still too bulky. That aside, good comparison between these two cameras, I had the LUMIX GM-1 several years ago and actually took a lot of very good photos just with the back LCD, which gave me the confidence to go ahead and try out the S9. Thanks for the video.
Actually the autofocus issues you might be facing with the GX80 might be due to the Lumix 20mm F1.7, my EM5 is also a lot slower with the Lumix 20mm F1.7, but it is fast with the Olympus 14-42mm Kit lens. The Lumix 20mm F1.7 is quite a slow focusing lens in the micro four thirds space.
@@GeorgeHolden Yep, that's something to take note of. So that's why the Lumix 20mm F1.7 is probably not the lens for your street uses.... the autofocus is too slow and manual focus is clunky to be honest. I think the Olympus 17mm F1.8 or the Lumix leica 15mm F1.7 would suit that better.
Yep the 20mm is notorious for it's AF speed. Stunning images from it, though... I am torn between the 20 and leica 15mm for a gx85 I just bought to replace my stolen gx7.
Leica 15mm f1.7 is a little pricey but wonderful. There is a dji version of the same lens which have same quality and design but cheap. Check it out if anyone is interested
@@ryanchai8371the 20mm focussing speed also depends on your camera - with newer models, its considerably faster but with something like the GX80 totally agree with comments that someone is better off with another lens.
I don't own any of these cameras, but in looking at sample shots from the S9 on Flickr, it (to me) looks lackluster. I'm not seeing the detail and clean look of full frame sensors like the Nikon Zf or Sony Alpha 7. Typically, with a full frame, there's more details captured (without artificial in-camera sharpening), and the light is more nuanced. It should look clean and detailed. I'm not seeing that on the S9. There are some amazing cameras with cropped sensors... I think the X-T line up on Fuji is great, and I looked at the GX80 and was impressed with photographers like "benberes" on Flickr. Sometimes a camera ticks all the "upgrades" on whitepaper (i.e. S9, or the Fuji X100VI), but it lacks a certain something that makes images feel cinematic, alive or fun.
when you're comparing the depth of field, you should use equivalent photos. the focal lengths are similar but the distance to the subject is different. of course you will get more 'bokeh' with the S9 if you're closer to the subject. I know you will get it anyway, it's a feature of a larger sensor, but to compare a head and shoulders portrait to a half body shot isn't a fair comparison.
The 20mm is slower to focus. It is actually faster on my GX80 than on my G80 and Olympus EM5ii, and my GX1. And it actually feels pretty fast on my G9ii. I guess Panasonic found ways to control it better and firmware updates for lenses and bodies could help. The 12-32mm is a fantastic little lens. To me, even though m43 bodies have grown and the fast lenses are pretty big as well, the fact that we have those tiny and cheap lenses as well still makes it the most affordable and portable system, if you want to bring lenses for every kind of photography.
Love it. Also, I've really been enjoying Portrait Mode since you recommended it, great to have an app JUST for street photography ❤ Definitely helping me grow my style!
nobody wanted to buy that gx80(85 here) when it was new .. as a result they still had stock going after they discontinued both the 7, 8 and 9. That lack of interest continued until they stopped making it, at which point, suddenly people started to pay more for them used than they had been sold for new .... ??
Panasonic Full frame model's continue to tempt me but you are right about the lens prices, would limit me as an amateur. And I really do love FMT. GX80 was the first interchangeable lens camera I ever bought, and the 20mm was the first lens I picked up for it. And I still use it all the time five years later despite adding another two MFT cameras to the collection and multiple lenses. Its not a fully pocketable combo but very close and fits nicely in the Uniqlo shoulder bag. Not sure I'd ever sell either the camera or lens, even if Lumix launched a GX80/GX9 successor.
I bought an s5ii and 3 of the 1.8 primes. It was cheaper than buying a g9ii and three weathersealed m43 primes of similar focal lengths....by about 1000 usd. I bought it because my gh6 and 3 voigtlanders where stolen. Really miss those voigtlanders though.
@georgeholden How do you structure your file storage when using so many different cameras and using multiple cameras on the same day? Would love to see you do a Lightroom workflow and photo storage structure video !
They complain about s9 but love Sony camera with basically same features removed and worst IBIS and crop on stab but they still won’t complain but lumix made a full frame zv competitors for cheap with better stab and autofocus just as good but they still complain
The GX80 (or GX85 as it's called in some markets) is actually the direct successor of the GX7. Hence, in Japan it's actually called the GX7 Mark II. Also, there is a third camera in that series, the GX9 (which is called GX7 Mark III in Japan). It seems Panasonic reserves logical naming conventions for Japan only, at least during that confusing time period when those came out.
ya the naming is so crazy! bc they also had the gx8 (which was a much larger camera than the 7/85/9, which are the "direct successors" here). and the 850. and 880. all of which had different numbers depending on the market. what. on. earth. anyway i second the 85/80 as a real nice camera. currently selling for over the price i paid new, now used ... craziness
The gx80 was the first camera with an evf for me and I have to say, I don’t like enough to question if I even need one that small and low quality. Since I wear glasses it is not very comfortable or good looking cause my eyes are too far away from the screen which clearly looks like a screen…
I don't know if someone else has already pointed it out. But the iris on the m43 has a cropfactor of 2. So e.g. if you use f2.8 on the m43, you would have to stop down to. f5.6 on the fullframe. Might I suggest a short video where you try them out again with the correct aperture?
I think that actually negates the point, if you were to shoot full frame then shoot at the equivalent aperture to four thirds then why shoot full frame?
@@GeorgeHolden I mention it because you shot them using the correct cropfactor on the focal length but forgot to use the cropfactor on the f number. So when you used f5.6 on the gx80 so you should had been using f11.6 on the S9. The reason for getting a fullframe is ofcourse of the lightgathering cababilities of the sensor and bigger and faster glass. To get a DOF of a ff f1.2, you would need a m43 f0.6 lens. Sadly that doesn't exist.
@@Kalua85 I wish people would try to think of this differently. A 50mm f/1.2 lens projects an image of the subject with the exact same DOF onto a FF sensor, a M43 sensor, or a piece of paper taped to a wall. Your aperture doesn't have to change when you switch from a FF to a M43 sensor. Your composition does. If you switch to a 25mm lens on M43 to get the equivalent FOV and you have the magic f/0.6 lens, your composition is still going to change because you are closer to the subject now, and the perspective and subject compression is different. But that's because the lens has half the focal length, not because the M43 sensor has a crop factor of 2. People seem to get the cause and effect mixed up. The DOF changes because the lens changes. The lens changes because you want a similar composition to the 50mm on a FF. Compose differently and you can keep the same lens and DOF on a M43 sensor as on a FF sensor.
@@MikeC2K10That's an idiotic way of thinking about it. The vast majority of shooting locations don't give you that ability to dramatically reframe to do that. Portraits and still life aren't the only two types of photography that exists. It's a stupid viewpoint.
@@GeorgeHoldenNobody buys a camera to shoot at any specific aperture. I shoot at f8-f16 on my gull frame s5iix all the time. I mostly shoot portraits at about f5.6-f8 while occasionally opening it up to f1.8 or 2.8 when I want a shot in a location where the background is more distracting. It's like saying someone buys an f1.2 lens lens to shoot at f1.2. It's just wrong. You buy a lens to shoot at every aperture it is capable of shooting at which fits a need in any given circumstance. If you are drawing comparisons and equalizing everything else, then equalizing the DOF only makes sense. Otherwise WTF is the reason you are choosing your apertures? Randomness? The aperture should be selected to achieve the desired dof and light gathering necessary for a shot. If you aren't equalizing this when shooting between m43 and FF then it means you aren't actually taking your dof into account at all.
The GX9 is a fantastic camera - I used to shoot with the GX80 and owned both for a while. The GX80 is a great camera but the GX9 had lots of little refinements that worked out better for me - one big one is the improved image processor. The 15mm is also a really good lens and would pair with either camera beautifully.
I sold my 20mm lens years ago because of the horrible autofocus. It is a shame because otherwise it was a great lens. It was just too frustrating to use.
God i hope the S9ii is more point shoot focused. I know they were targeting content creators but damn they really should of made a fast pancake lens at 24,28, or 35. Like a mechanical shutter and evf would of been nice too but the lack of a nice lens just sucks the most.
I can't remember the shots in this video but I imagine there were some street photos for comparisons, they're never great shots when you're comparing cameras
The GX80 and even the GX9 with its 1.25x crop has better detail rendering than the S5II and S9 in 4k. Sure the GX80 and GX9 are much noisier but at least fine details are very close to a raw picture, the difference is impressive when cropping a bit in 4k, both the S5II and S9 have an oversharpened look with details filtering. Of course, DR, IBIS and AF are so much better on these cameras, but I still prefer the detail rendering from the old Panasonic cameras like the GX9, GH5, S1, S5 etc.
I got so much flack for pointing out in my ‘why not to buy the S5ii’ video when I pointed out the LACK of L mount lenses. Yes, there’s everything you need. But damn it’s expensive! One of my favourite lenses when I was a Sony boy was a Tamron 17-28mm f2.8. Where is that lens for L mount? I know there’s sigma, but Tamron is cheaper lol. Lumix are working on it but the third party peeps need to speed up for sure
I just don’t understand. Can’t Lumix (or any other manufacturer) see the MASSIVE opening in the market for an interchangeable lens X100 rangefinder style camera. These camera sell over market value on the used market because they’re so stylish. Like seriously, S9 would have been a home run w a viewfinder and shutter. That doesn’t at all take away from its “content creator” ethos.
With respect, going into ‘horse pose’ to get the precise height needed for good composition is far more difficult than just using a screen, shielded from light by being close to my body. I don’t think we need a new FF camera but m4/3 are, for me, really only useful for wildlife, macro or landscape photography. I much preferred the obvious subject separation with FF cameras (I use 3 sensor sizes every week).
Yeah I wouldn’t waste your money on the S9. It’s far far too crippled at such a high price to make it a worthwhile investment. You’re better off looking into a S5ii or even a Gx9. Even if the S5ii is a little more expensive it’s a far greater value
You will get the same depth of field if you have F1.7 (mft) VS F3.4 (FF). To get a compact setup for FF, you will need F2.8 or slower F anyway. With the fast aperture on MFT you might be limited in bright light with your shutter speed though to get the FF look.
Any other camera brands offer something close to Nikon 28-400mm f4-8 usability? Even M43 doesn't offer something similar right hence the smaller size doesn't offer much other than lighter? Does M43 able to shoot full person in frame with blurred background with or without compression?
It can't exist without having extra glass elements. Since I haven't seen an adapter from one mount to another with added glass elements I don't think it exists.
Interesting video, I’ve owned the GX7 (a long time ago) and now have the S9. Couple of things, setting the monitor to +3 makes a huge difference to outdoor visibility and the enjoyment of it (not sure if you tried?). As for lenses, the Sigma I series is pretty compact, I picked up the 45mm f2.8, pretty close to my preferred street focal length (50mm). It is much more compact than the lenses you were using. If I was only shooting street photography I’d agree it’s not the best option for the money. But as a hybrid camera I love it.
I had three GX7 too! Yeah I had the S9 monitor maxed brightness but found it difficult to use in bright sun which is unfortunate. And I considered borrowing some sigma lenses but couldn't find any easily!
U do get a feedback with s9 when shooting unless u have a bad copy of s9 you complaining too much the s9 is for creators it’s not for people who want s5iiX and all features or fx9 Sony then get an fx 9 a lot of people hate on s9 but they give the same crappy deleted features excuses from Sony it’s insane zv series of Sony also have worst removed features I don’t use cold shoe I don’t use evf either 😂 neither features exist on smartphones and u still can create with your fon just use the screen as view finder you can compose good shorts with it people just like complaining If that camera is not what u need and u must nerd off from evf then get a camera with it this is like tesla car drivers buying it and expecting it to behave like ICE cars 😂
Where is the mechanical shutter, where is the electronic viewfinder, where is the microphone input, where is the external flash connection, where are the convenient controls in the S9? No? 1500$? S9 goodbye.
As of today, artificial intelligence is already capable of offering completely realistic images from accurate prompts. How long will it take for digital cameras to have AI incorporated? In such a scenario, the shots we take would be nothing more than highly refined prompts for our AI-equipped camera to give us the "perfect image". Or, even worse, several trendy versions of the "perfect image". That’s when digital photography will become so boring that I’ll only take photos with my analogue cameras. I just hope that amateurs around the world do the same, and more manufacturers of analogue cameras and, above all, photographic film, emerge… I want to take my photos myself!!
If one is happy with a mft camera, one can be happy with the latest iphones, which anyway one would need to buy. But if one likes the look from a full frame, that is still haed to get. Or course I am talking the DR and the DOF renderinf differences. z6 with its 40mm is not much bigger than the gx80 with 20mm. MFT can be very useful for bird photography. Other than that FF nowadays have pretty small primes, which one can crop too. All the reasons why a Leica Q2 or Q3 has a huge following, even with fixed focal length and FF sensor. Cellphones have negated the need to buy a MFT.
S9 with its mediocre rolling shutter perfomance ( and no mech shutter ) is terrible for dynamic street photography ( which is core of impressive street shots )
The S9 has some terrible rolling shutter especially indoors or with fast moving subjects, a terrible oversite of a slow readout speed and no mechanical shutter. As someone that does street you know that things are pretty dynamic and you can go from shooting someone chilling on a bench to a guy doing wheelies on a bike.
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I absolutely love my GX80 especially when paired with the Pana Leica 15mm f1.7 which is the lens you should've bought instead of the 20mm. Really fast and sharp........superb lens!
Thank you George for this comparison.
I own the GX85/9 and have no intention to purchase the S9. The S9 is being marketed for context creators. I am not in that market. From my perspective as a street photographer, the S9 is a suboptimal body. Glad you purchased a cheap 35mm plastic view finder. I’m sure that substantially improved your experience.
The GX85 is a lovely camera for street photography. Small and lightweight. Very nice image quality. The Hd video is nice but of course LUMIX for some reason disabled the body by not including an audio jac. Why LUMIX did you do that? As you point out, there is a large selection of nice M43 glass available. The L mount doesn’t have a wide choice of lenses for the S9.
The price comparison between these bodies is crazy. The GX85 plus lens is bout 1/4 the price of the S9 without the lens. I’m not convinced the full frame sensor is worth anywhere near the price premium for the S9. To be fair, the S9 isn’t designed with street photography in mind.
In this comparison the GX85 is the clear winner. So will LUMIX put the G9ii guts in the S9 body? I hope so.
Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)
The lumix GX series is very good value. I picked up a GX9, 12-32 kit lens (in originalbox), plus 25mm F1.7, 14mm F2.5, and Oly 40-150 F4.0 to 5.6 for just £500. Everything works, and it works well with my existing Olympus M4/3 lenses.
As for street photgraphy, shallow depth of field is a disadvantage, in my opinion as it might as well be studio work if the depth of field doesn’t give a clue to the location.
That's a killer deal!! I got my gx80 with 12-32 and 45-150 kit lens bundle barely used for 580 USD
S9 for me. I can buy a single good zoom lens and be done with it due to the hybrid zoom. That in itself is a good value knowing how expensive lenses are.
Can't agree more, George. I had the GX80 for a few years now, and it is a fantastic camera, and with EVF!!! Never seen the need for a FF camera too. I've taken it on many holidays over the years, with the 12-32mm lens and that's all I need to get great images. As I've said before the Panasonic S9 is a still born camera. A camera desperately looking for someone to buy it.
Thanks for sharing! I'm excited to spend some weeks exclusively with the GX80 and 20mm, it's a no brainer to even carry in a pocket which is fantastic
Hahahaha @ stillborn
I have GX9 for this exact purpose, and for some years I've been ignoring 12-32mm lens. Recently I took it out... and now I feel like a doofus for ignoring it for so long. It's amazing.
Having a full frame mirror less is great if you like using vintage 35mm lenses.
The Lumix S9 is selling very well. Apparently many people think very differently than you.
Hello,
I also own the DMC-GX80. An excellent camera...
...However, I would recommend the Leica 15mm F/1.7 lens. I have had the Lumix 20mm in the past. The sharpness is superb, but it has 3 major flaws for me:
- Pumping during focusing.
- Latency during focusing.
- Audible pumping noise during focusing, recordable in video mode.
Best regrards,
True, the gx80 has no special video specifications, no microphone input, but the 4k 25/30p combined with the stabilized sensor also allows you to shoot beautiful footage. Obviously, if you work with video it can't be your only camera, but it can be a second camera or a travel camera for video too.
I have both GX85 (GX80) and S9 (also GX1 and G9). Only thing I don't like about S9 is missing EVF. I'll look for "OVF" on this video. Thank you! I paired GX85 with Lumix 14mm f2.5 pancake lens but my favorite lens is Lumix Leica 15mm f1.7 - probably the best lens for M43 body. For S9 I ordered Voitlander Ultron 35mm f1.7 (with m39 to L adapter). Both are fantastic cameras. Both takes 4K video as well, but open gate 6K on S9 and LUT function is awesome.
I am still happy with my gx80 12-32 for travel, camping etc. Would love an update with stacked sony sensor, better evf.
Aaah the gx80 🫶🫶🫶🫶 my second biggest selling regret after the Pen F. (Now I juat hoard everything to be on the safe side 😂)
Now, if we could just have a new gx80 🤷♀️🤞
A tip for those shooting with the gx80 for autofocus: use point focus! Just tap on the screen to choose the area and focus. It's pretty quick and snappy (probably nothing close to the top end these days) but I actually prefer it to full autofocus cuz I can be more specific about what is actually in focus. No focus on the tip of the nose!
Yeah very good idea! Sometimes when using the EVF my nose would set the single point for me
Why are people allergic to the focus-recompose technique nowadays? It’s a faster way.
I loved the GX85 when I owned it. A big regret getting rid of it. If they come out with the same form factor with their new autofocus system it would be my forever camera.
I used the GX80 for four years, a fab camera. I now use the GX9, even better! I bought mine a few years ago, new, for less than you paid for your second hand GX80! This is how crazy the second hand market is now. Pany should release a new GX camera, it makes much more sense.
By the way, I mostly use the electronic shutter, it works well. The 4K video on the GX80 and GX9 is good in my opinion. The AF is also pretty good, at least I find it fast!
Do you find much of a difference in image quality between the GX80 and GX9?
Do you find much of a difference in image quality between the GX80 and GX9?
@@garethbragdon5714 I don't see a difference between 16 and 20mpx. Both cameras take great photos. I would not have upgraded but there was a great deal on the GX9. I do prefer the GX9 for the little tweaks that are the differences.
The GX80 was my first mirrorless camera… so many memories 🥺😭😭
Me too! I miss it
What happen now? You sell it?
Mine too. It was stolen, sadly. I purchased a GX9 to replace it. But, good memories with it.
I got mine few month ago im lovin it
GX80 has an EVF which the S9 lacking is just wild to me. I can't fathom how LUMIX saw the S9 and the demand for rangefinder style cameras and didn't add an EVF. I have an S5ii and really love it but would've instantly traded it for an S9 with an EVF.
Panasonic has explained why there is no EVF - one of the reasons is to prioritise certain elements like IBIS and keeping the size down, and who they are targeting. That won’t work out for all but personally, it’s not an issue for me - I use a viewfinder only 90% of the time and with street, virtually none of the time.
@@ignatiussloane if it had a tilt screen it would be less egregious. Panasonic can say what they want about design but it seems genuinely pretty lacking in terms of direction.
@@GrainOnTheGo an articulated screen makes more sense for vlogging, selfies etc which suit the SNS market that Panasonic have said it’s for. How well that does, we’ll see - it’s certainly not pitched at the traditional experience and from what I’ve seen from comments in Asia, it seems to resonate with that SNS usage.
Although I like tilt screens in some usage particularly street shooting (although I should say that most of the time I compose by eye), I find an articulated one more useful more generally, particularly when travelling. The GX9 was marketed in the UK (where I’m based) and I think it Europe as a ‘premier street and travel camera’ and personally, I think it was a great choice (although I did love the GX80). Would love a new GX camera but my understanding is that the range has never sold well.
And a FUCKING SHUTTER
@ignatiussloane Over in China I know the s9 was ruthlessly mocked by people online. The reps at the Panasonic flagship store in Shanghai are ashamed to even show it to people.
Great video! The GX80 appeals to me so much recently, but the camera stores in my city don't sell it anymore, so I keep looking for similar options.
If I was going to replace my GX85 with a full frame I would go with the Sony A7C. I just can't live without an EVF. And you're right about the lens options and price difference between Lumix L and Sony.
Back to MFT, the Olympus 45mm is a great prime in a tiny package for "across the street" photography and portraits. I always carry it with the 20mm and a Laowa 7.5mm in a small bag.
Depth of field between different sensor sizes isn't really a consideration if you're doing street photography IMHO. If you're shooting street, quite often you're zone focusing, or at east shooting narrower apertures to ensure you nail acceptable focus. At that point, the benefits of one sensor size over another is negated.
I tend to agree, but wanted to include as I know for many people that is a consideration
It seems that you love a "standard" lens (28 or 35mm) for street, like me ❤ but you know, someone take streetphotos with 85mm or 135mm 😢
@@hieppt they do in deed, and that’s perfectly fine too :)
5:38 i’m not a camera guy, even though, impressed with how a pricey camera makes difference.
Great! I just did the same, bought an old Yashica wide/tele accessory OVF for the vintage Yaschica GSN rangefinder film camera, and plan to use it with one of my adapted 35mm M Mount lenses and plan to take it out for a shoot this weekend. I keep the S9 on aperture priority, keep the lens at F8, and limit the shutter to 1/60 and ISO on AUTO. Will also try with the Sigma 45mm F2.8 AF, which I bought. I bought the S9 after years of using the Leica Q and Q2, which, while both very good, had a lens that was still too wide for me, and the overall size was still too bulky. That aside, good comparison between these two cameras, I had the LUMIX GM-1 several years ago and actually took a lot of very good photos just with the back LCD, which gave me the confidence to go ahead and try out the S9. Thanks for the video.
Actually the autofocus issues you might be facing with the GX80 might be due to the Lumix 20mm F1.7, my EM5 is also a lot slower with the Lumix 20mm F1.7, but it is fast with the Olympus 14-42mm Kit lens. The Lumix 20mm F1.7 is quite a slow focusing lens in the micro four thirds space.
That's the first I've heard this, thank you! I did think the 12-32 was quick so that makes sense, cheers!
@@GeorgeHolden Yep, that's something to take note of. So that's why the Lumix 20mm F1.7 is probably not the lens for your street uses.... the autofocus is too slow and manual focus is clunky to be honest. I think the Olympus 17mm F1.8 or the Lumix leica 15mm F1.7 would suit that better.
Yep the 20mm is notorious for it's AF speed.
Stunning images from it, though... I am torn between the 20 and leica 15mm for a gx85 I just bought to replace my stolen gx7.
Leica 15mm f1.7 is a little pricey but wonderful. There is a dji version of the same lens which have same quality and design but cheap. Check it out if anyone is interested
@@ryanchai8371the 20mm focussing speed also depends on your camera - with newer models, its considerably faster but with something like the GX80 totally agree with comments that someone is better off with another lens.
I don't own any of these cameras, but in looking at sample shots from the S9 on Flickr, it (to me) looks lackluster. I'm not seeing the detail and clean look of full frame sensors like the Nikon Zf or Sony Alpha 7. Typically, with a full frame, there's more details captured (without artificial in-camera sharpening), and the light is more nuanced. It should look clean and detailed. I'm not seeing that on the S9. There are some amazing cameras with cropped sensors... I think the X-T line up on Fuji is great, and I looked at the GX80 and was impressed with photographers like "benberes" on Flickr. Sometimes a camera ticks all the "upgrades" on whitepaper (i.e. S9, or the Fuji X100VI), but it lacks a certain something that makes images feel cinematic, alive or fun.
Great video! What are you using for the POV camera while taking photos?
when you're comparing the depth of field, you should use equivalent photos. the focal lengths are similar but the distance to the subject is different. of course you will get more 'bokeh' with the S9 if you're closer to the subject. I know you will get it anyway, it's a feature of a larger sensor, but to compare a head and shoulders portrait to a half body shot isn't a fair comparison.
The 20mm is slower to focus. It is actually faster on my GX80 than on my G80 and Olympus EM5ii, and my GX1. And it actually feels pretty fast on my G9ii. I guess Panasonic found ways to control it better and firmware updates for lenses and bodies could help.
The 12-32mm is a fantastic little lens.
To me, even though m43 bodies have grown and the fast lenses are pretty big as well, the fact that we have those tiny and cheap lenses as well still makes it the most affordable and portable system, if you want to bring lenses for every kind of photography.
Nice video. I'm half expecting to see myself in the background in some of your shots as I'm always out and about in town 👀
Thanks! Come say hi if you see me!
It’s also a great argument against the GR III that cost 1.2k. Thanks
Love it. Also, I've really been enjoying Portrait Mode since you recommended it, great to have an app JUST for street photography ❤ Definitely helping me grow my style!
nobody wanted to buy that gx80(85 here) when it was new .. as a result they still had stock going after they discontinued both the 7, 8 and 9. That lack of interest continued until they stopped making it, at which point, suddenly people started to pay more for them used than they had been sold for new .... ??
Panasonic Full frame model's continue to tempt me but you are right about the lens prices, would limit me as an amateur. And I really do love FMT. GX80 was the first interchangeable lens camera I ever bought, and the 20mm was the first lens I picked up for it. And I still use it all the time five years later despite adding another two MFT cameras to the collection and multiple lenses. Its not a fully pocketable combo but very close and fits nicely in the Uniqlo shoulder bag. Not sure I'd ever sell either the camera or lens, even if Lumix launched a GX80/GX9 successor.
I bought an s5ii and 3 of the 1.8 primes. It was cheaper than buying a g9ii and three weathersealed m43 primes of similar focal lengths....by about 1000 usd. I bought it because my gh6 and 3 voigtlanders where stolen. Really miss those voigtlanders though.
@@Whatsup_Abroad that's interesting and sounds like a great deal. The S5 models really look like a perfect entry to full frame.
You can run effectively canon full FRAME EF Glass on the S9 for cheap and it works well….
@georgeholden How do you structure your file storage when using so many different cameras and using multiple cameras on the same day? Would love to see you do a Lightroom workflow and photo storage structure video !
They complain about s9 but love Sony camera with basically same features removed and worst IBIS and crop on stab but they still won’t complain but lumix made a full frame zv competitors for cheap with better stab and autofocus just as good but they still complain
The GX80 (or GX85 as it's called in some markets) is actually the direct successor of the GX7. Hence, in Japan it's actually called the GX7 Mark II.
Also, there is a third camera in that series, the GX9 (which is called GX7 Mark III in Japan). It seems Panasonic reserves logical naming conventions for Japan only, at least during that confusing time period when those came out.
I'm aware!
How does the GX8 fit into that naming scheme?
ya the naming is so crazy! bc they also had the gx8 (which was a much larger camera than the 7/85/9, which are the "direct successors" here). and the 850. and 880. all of which had different numbers depending on the market. what. on. earth.
anyway i second the 85/80 as a real nice camera. currently selling for over the price i paid new, now used ... craziness
@@busydadscooking001that gx8 was just ridiculously huge. Thing was MASSIVE
The gx80 was the first camera with an evf for me and I have to say, I don’t like enough to question if I even need one that small and low quality. Since I wear glasses it is not very comfortable or good looking cause my eyes are too far away from the screen which clearly looks like a screen…
What if Viltrox made an L-mount version of the 28mm f4.5? It seems like a natural combo to me.
Very informative video as usual George and I've been looking at the GX80 to add to my collection of m 4/3rds cameras .
I don't know if someone else has already pointed it out. But the iris on the m43 has a cropfactor of 2. So e.g. if you use f2.8 on the m43, you would have to stop down to. f5.6 on the fullframe. Might I suggest a short video where you try them out again with the correct aperture?
I think that actually negates the point, if you were to shoot full frame then shoot at the equivalent aperture to four thirds then why shoot full frame?
@@GeorgeHolden I mention it because you shot them using the correct cropfactor on the focal length but forgot to use the cropfactor on the f number. So when you used f5.6 on the gx80 so you should had been using f11.6 on the S9.
The reason for getting a fullframe is ofcourse of the lightgathering cababilities of the sensor and bigger and faster glass. To get a DOF of a ff f1.2, you would need a m43 f0.6 lens. Sadly that doesn't exist.
@@Kalua85 I wish people would try to think of this differently. A 50mm f/1.2 lens projects an image of the subject with the exact same DOF onto a FF sensor, a M43 sensor, or a piece of paper taped to a wall. Your aperture doesn't have to change when you switch from a FF to a M43 sensor. Your composition does. If you switch to a 25mm lens on M43 to get the equivalent FOV and you have the magic f/0.6 lens, your composition is still going to change because you are closer to the subject now, and the perspective and subject compression is different. But that's because the lens has half the focal length, not because the M43 sensor has a crop factor of 2. People seem to get the cause and effect mixed up. The DOF changes because the lens changes. The lens changes because you want a similar composition to the 50mm on a FF. Compose differently and you can keep the same lens and DOF on a M43 sensor as on a FF sensor.
@@MikeC2K10That's an idiotic way of thinking about it. The vast majority of shooting locations don't give you that ability to dramatically reframe to do that. Portraits and still life aren't the only two types of photography that exists. It's a stupid viewpoint.
@@GeorgeHoldenNobody buys a camera to shoot at any specific aperture. I shoot at f8-f16 on my gull frame s5iix all the time. I mostly shoot portraits at about f5.6-f8 while occasionally opening it up to f1.8 or 2.8 when I want a shot in a location where the background is more distracting.
It's like saying someone buys an f1.2 lens lens to shoot at f1.2. It's just wrong. You buy a lens to shoot at every aperture it is capable of shooting at which fits a need in any given circumstance.
If you are drawing comparisons and equalizing everything else, then equalizing the DOF only makes sense. Otherwise WTF is the reason you are choosing your apertures? Randomness?
The aperture should be selected to achieve the desired dof and light gathering necessary for a shot. If you aren't equalizing this when shooting between m43 and FF then it means you aren't actually taking your dof into account at all.
Lovely video thank you
Have you used the gx9?
Also I hear good things about Lumix 15mm for street?
The GX9 is a fantastic camera - I used to shoot with the GX80 and owned both for a while. The GX80 is a great camera but the GX9 had lots of little refinements that worked out better for me - one big one is the improved image processor.
The 15mm is also a really good lens and would pair with either camera beautifully.
@@ignatiussloaneIs the image quality much better on the gx9
I sold my 20mm lens years ago because of the horrible autofocus. It is a shame because otherwise it was a great lens. It was just too frustrating to use.
I've been taking the photos from my GX85 and using the Lumix Lab to apply LUTs.
But transferring manually to Lumix Lab?
@@GeorgeHolden Yes I transfer using the WiFi in the camera to my phone.
God i hope the S9ii is more point shoot focused. I know they were targeting content creators but damn they really should of made a fast pancake lens at 24,28, or 35. Like a mechanical shutter and evf would of been nice too but the lack of a nice lens just sucks the most.
Appreciate the review- excellent points. But wtf are shooting? Just clicking random peeps as you walk?
I can't remember the shots in this video but I imagine there were some street photos for comparisons, they're never great shots when you're comparing cameras
The GX80 and even the GX9 with its 1.25x crop has better detail rendering than the S5II and S9 in 4k. Sure the GX80 and GX9 are much noisier but at least fine details are very close to a raw picture, the difference is impressive when cropping a bit in 4k, both the S5II and S9 have an oversharpened look with details filtering. Of course, DR, IBIS and AF are so much better on these cameras, but I still prefer the detail rendering from the old Panasonic cameras like the GX9, GH5, S1, S5 etc.
I got so much flack for pointing out in my ‘why not to buy the S5ii’ video when I pointed out the LACK of L mount lenses. Yes, there’s everything you need. But damn it’s expensive! One of my favourite lenses when I was a Sony boy was a Tamron 17-28mm f2.8. Where is that lens for L mount? I know there’s sigma, but Tamron is cheaper lol. Lumix are working on it but the third party peeps need to speed up for sure
Yeah agreed!
Excellent Video I have a GX8 with some lenses and I love it !
I m not doing any video so I do not care about the S9 and I do have other FF camera.
Where can I get the Kodak Gold LUT that you used in this video?
Whats the price for those upgrades
Finally an honest take of todays market - worst than previous generations, cheaping out covered up by software changes and endless youtube hype...
I got a $70 gx7 on fb marketplace, does the job on an even smaller budget.
what is viewfinder that you have mounted on your S9 camera ?
I just don’t understand. Can’t Lumix (or any other manufacturer) see the MASSIVE opening in the market for an interchangeable lens X100 rangefinder style camera.
These camera sell over market value on the used market because they’re so stylish. Like seriously, S9 would have been a home run w a viewfinder and shutter. That doesn’t at all take away from its “content creator” ethos.
Nice. I also had the thought also setting it up as a ghetto Mcgyver Leica. They do make bodies for them.
6:17 - GBP* what kind of Englishman am I when I can't write my own currency 🤦🏼♂️
Do not worry my man, I don't understand your currency so I hope it's even it out 🗿
Shoot from the hip looking down at the monitor. It gets you better pictures. Especially when you’re tall.
Disagree! I crouch instead
With respect, going into ‘horse pose’ to get the precise height needed for good composition is far more difficult than just using a screen, shielded from light by being close to my body. I don’t think we need a new FF camera but m4/3 are, for me, really only useful for wildlife, macro or landscape photography. I much preferred the obvious subject separation with FF cameras (I use 3 sensor sizes every week).
Im a gx85 owner and its a fun camera but I want upgrade to the s9
I would strongly consider other cameras over the S9, the S5II is better and cheaper 👍
@@GeorgeHolden I don’t see it cheaper camera alone same price as the s9 w lens on Adorama and bhphotovideo 😭 you meant the s5 not s5ii?
@GeorgeHolden in addition, I would also say the GX85 is well equipped enough to service a person until a S9ii comes out.
Would you agree?
Yeah I wouldn’t waste your money on the S9. It’s far far too crippled at such a high price to make it a worthwhile investment. You’re better off looking into a S5ii or even a Gx9. Even if the S5ii is a little more expensive it’s a far greater value
@@jockturner1547 gx9 so hard to find I would love to own one!
Real question is if the 500€ crushes any top tier smartphone. Not just a little better, I mean crush it.
I have 3 FF cameras, but GX9 is my favourite.
Beautiful camera❤❤❤
You will get the same depth of field if you have F1.7 (mft) VS F3.4 (FF). To get a compact setup for FF, you will need F2.8 or slower F anyway.
With the fast aperture on MFT you might be limited in bright light with your shutter speed though to get the FF look.
Only waiting for a phase detect GX9 :)
@@ericmuijs1938 since GX9 already exist it must be a GX10. 🥳
Any other camera brands offer something close to Nikon 28-400mm f4-8 usability? Even M43 doesn't offer something similar right hence the smaller size doesn't offer much other than lighter? Does M43 able to shoot full person in frame with blurred background with or without compression?
Hence the depth of field comparison
Lumix should have made the s9 a fixed lens and made a compact mft camera in gx-line with new technology.
Hey George, do you know about adapter using Z Mount Lenses on M43 Camera??
It can't exist without having extra glass elements. Since I haven't seen an adapter from one mount to another with added glass elements I don't think it exists.
Interesting video, I’ve owned the GX7 (a long time ago) and now have the S9.
Couple of things, setting the monitor to +3 makes a huge difference to outdoor visibility and the enjoyment of it (not sure if you tried?).
As for lenses, the Sigma I series is pretty compact, I picked up the 45mm f2.8, pretty close to my preferred street focal length (50mm). It is much more compact than the lenses you were using.
If I was only shooting street photography I’d agree it’s not the best option for the money. But as a hybrid camera I love it.
I had three GX7 too! Yeah I had the S9 monitor maxed brightness but found it difficult to use in bright sun which is unfortunate. And I considered borrowing some sigma lenses but couldn't find any easily!
U do get a feedback with s9 when shooting unless u have a bad copy of s9 you complaining too much the s9 is for creators it’s not for people who want s5iiX and all features or fx9 Sony then get an fx 9 a lot of people hate on s9 but they give the same crappy deleted features excuses from Sony it’s insane zv series of Sony also have worst removed features I don’t use cold shoe I don’t use evf either 😂 neither features exist on smartphones and u still can create with your fon just use the screen as view finder you can compose good shorts with it people just like complaining If that camera is not what u need and u must nerd off from evf then get a camera with it this is like tesla car drivers buying it and expecting it to behave like ICE cars 😂
Hey it’s me! 🎉😂
Hey Adele!
You should buy a used pentax camera next then make it a content
Do you have any recommendations?
@@GeorgeHolden pentax q7 pentax k 01
You really need to alter the FStop too, to get a proper comparison. F5.6 is F11 on 4/3.
F5.6 is F5.6 on any camera, irregardless of format size.
@@TL-xw6fh to get a depth of field comparison…
@@TL-xw6fh a cropped sensor gives an F4 looking image compared to FF F2.8. Trust me. 4/3 is double FF.
@@Vartan297 Street photographers could not care less about depth of field!
@@TL-xw6fh 😂😂😂😂 ridiculous
I'd pick the Canon M6ii+22 pancake.
Where is the mechanical shutter, where is the electronic viewfinder, where is the microphone input, where is the external flash connection, where are the convenient controls in the S9? No? 1500$? S9 goodbye.
You have to try the 20mm 1.7 Lu... oh, wait.
😂
S9 was stripped out dumbed down and still far too big -GX80 is far better
As of today, artificial intelligence is already capable of offering completely realistic images from accurate prompts. How long will it take for digital cameras to have AI incorporated? In such a scenario, the shots we take would be nothing more than highly refined prompts for our AI-equipped camera to give us the "perfect image". Or, even worse, several trendy versions of the "perfect image". That’s when digital photography will become so boring that I’ll only take photos with my analogue cameras. I just hope that amateurs around the world do the same, and more manufacturers of analogue cameras and, above all, photographic film, emerge… I want to take my photos myself!!
1500$ for a camera without a hotshoe? Not for me.
If one is happy with a mft camera, one can be happy with the latest iphones, which anyway one would need to buy.
But if one likes the look from a full frame, that is still haed to get. Or course I am talking the DR and the DOF renderinf differences.
z6 with its 40mm is not much bigger than the gx80 with 20mm.
MFT can be very useful for bird photography. Other than that FF nowadays have pretty small primes, which one can crop too.
All the reasons why a Leica Q2 or Q3 has a huge following, even with fixed focal length and FF sensor.
Cellphones have negated the need to buy a MFT.
S9 with its mediocre rolling shutter perfomance ( and no mech shutter ) is terrible for dynamic street photography ( which is core of impressive street shots )
You've tested it?
The S9 has some terrible rolling shutter especially indoors or with fast moving subjects, a terrible oversite of a slow readout speed and no mechanical shutter. As someone that does street you know that things are pretty dynamic and you can go from shooting someone chilling on a bench to a guy doing wheelies on a bike.
Great videos!! Just need to ask you to speak slower for us international people understand easier :) THANKS AND KEEP POSTING
Apologies! I also have multi-language subtitles, I can add other languages if you need :)
You can choose a slower playback speed if it's too fast, press the cogwheel under the video.
Beach photo
Nothing for 50 dollars?
There are cameras for 50 but not in this video
lol. Panny is gonna cancel you 😂
More micro four thirds plz panny
@@GeorgeHoldenyes. This. A new GX with phase detect please. Love my GX85 though.