I carry both, at the end of the day If I'm sitting in a courtroom I want that jury to know I did everything I could before I took that person's life. Great video!
You are correct my friend, I really wish we can dispense with the "less lethal aren't viable" position. Yes they clearly are. We have seen them used to deter and thwart criminal activity all the time. Just like any tool there's a time and place when it should be used, and less lethals should be a part of every gun enthusiasts arsenal of tools
I enjoyed your take on this difficult subject. I advocate for less lethal options (pepper spray, pepperballs, or kinetic impact projectiles in the 30-50 Joule range) as long as they don't compromise your physical safety for the sake of legal safety. Using the right tool for the right situation isn't an exact science so I agree with you that's easier said than done. Civilians also don't have the benefit of an armed well-equipped back-up team so having a firearm still becomes absolutely necessary.
Your point that anyone who is morally adverse to killing another human being, should not carry lethal or less lethal devices is a significant one. You would think, therefore, that anyone trying to defend themselves or others from an extremely dangerous assailant, should carry a firearm, instead of a less lethal. Not necessarily. There are many everyday confrontational situations where using lethal force will caused the user to be arrested and likely incarcerated. A few examples are as follows: Road Rage, dealing with belligerent drunks both know and unknown, personal brawls, threatening animals, prowlers, etc. Various less lethal devices could be used in those situations as long as the user was not the aggressor. We probably all agree that being threaten with a firearm yielding assailant requires a firearm response if you morally roll like that and can legally own and operate the firearm. There are more variables and latitude when confronting a edge weapon yielding assailant with less than lethal, although a firearm is the best response. In the real world many situations are such that unless you have a 1.5 second draw and shoot or less, your only two options are compliance or death.
While I agree that what you're talking about as less lethal is probably not enough. However what is out there now in the not so general public space will stop someone no matter what an aggressors intent is.
Pain is a great deterant and the intent of a rapidly closing subject can always be argued. However, I must disagree with any premise that their is no place for less lethal. Any action that hinders or delays the mindset of an aggressor is a positive for the one being attacked. Seconds become options. One need only look at the animal kingdom for answers to this question. Think about it...
But in fairness, most criminals flea at the sign of first resistance. Yes, I realize there are exceptions to that, but it is true that criminals are essentially cowards and that they generally do not want a lot of attention or a lot of fight.
You are correct in that most bad guys just run. HOWEVER, given all of the videos that I've see of actual engagements, they run AFTER either taking or receiving the first shots. They also are usually trying to return fire while running.
Why in the world would someone use less lethal ? well maybe they can't own a real gun or they don't want the responsibility of taking a life that's why almost anyone with any common science would agree if you can own and carry a canceled weapon that's a good option but not all threats warrant deadly force
This guy is a moron don't carry anything else but a firearm. A lot of people can't or don't want to carry a firearm and pepper spray or gel is a good option I had to use it and it's better than having to pull my knife Pepper spray or gel has helped stop a lot of attacks.
he maybe the type of person who shoots the threat in the back while the threat is now running away and is no longer a threat. prosecutor will burn him. and if your aim is off you are highly likely to kill the wrong person.
There's PCP airguns out there that are just as lethal as a firearm. The AEA HP SS .25/.30 and up can penetrate right through a car door from 25+ yards away and their semi auto. Very lethal with H&N hornet pellets. No way a person can withstand these type of airguns even from possibly 30 yards away. I only bring this up because of the title,, less than lethal tools.
Excellent video and content Sir. I think many ponder the questions you pose. I guess my honest answer is, I 'd like to get through this life without getting killed but also not having to kill anyone . The less lethal seems like a compromise, but as I grow older and less able I'm strongly considering a gun for all the reasons you state.
This guy is a complete moron. He stopped carrying pepper spray because it could affect other people around. Not every self defense situation requires the use of a firearm. Pepper spray or pepper gel has saved many from being another victim. Don't carry anything but a firearm. He doesn't know anything about pepper ball guns and the calibers they are available in 43 50 68. I carry pepper gel myself Saber aim and fire pepper gel gun I used it and it works Pull out a gun and shoot someone for a simple assault is basically what he's saying
I look at it like this. I'm in California even if you have a concealed carry permit nearly no place you want to carry are you legally allowed to (malls, public parks, schools, restaurants, etc etc). So if I can legally carry a less than lethal everywhere it's a whole lot better than nothing. The exception is an active shooter intent on killing me or other innocent life at that point in the absence of a firearm I have few choices anyways. For home defense I have an HDP50 with significantly more joules than a Berna and I can assure you getting hit with a jawbreaker would do just that break your jaw or rib. This thing is not a toy. Now most people breaking into your home will be detered by pain not all but again better than nothing. All this said, there is an argument be made that less than lethal have a presumed safety that lend them to be more likely readily available for firing especially in those with small children. Like it or not some people don't feel connectable with lethal firearms loaded anywhere in there house but are willing to keep a loaded less lethal near by because in the event of a horrible accident they are just that less than lethal. I am a RN all the gun shot patients I have ever cared for where accident most often by them and one that was presumed to be a neighbors stray bullet. Only one person did i ever care for that was intentionally shot by someone else.
If a citizen is facing Lethal Event, I agree. If not lethal, someone about to or is pushing, shoving you, punch you then OC is way to go, IMO. I agree, if threat no deterred, then I don´t know. I cannot say, Ï´ll break contact b-c my family will not be able to break contact, they would stand there, deer in headlights. So, I don´t know what I would do, if OC does not work, if person dodges etc.No issue if facing lethal threat, but look at Kyle Rittenhouse and Zimmerman, cost was 100´s of thousands of dollars I´d think.
@@inyourdefense0 Exactly. It might not stop the threat, also, it might just piss them off more. Civilians can get away with more than Police, we're not to as high a standard as they are.
A firearm is always better, but firearms is heavily regulated. For us living in europe we must be happy if we can have even there less lethal stuff. I think anything is better than nothing...
I guess you guys have not seen the penetration of the aluminum rounds at 465 fps. They will kill you at 20 ft most in home attacks. Right in the eye will end in the brain.
I think You made the case to carry a less lethal ….You stated…’ It’s some kind of a deterrent..that’s key….whether U plan to kill or subdue a jurisdiction will ultimately decide on that matter, however One must access the conflict rather quickly n coherently…I’ve now begun to carry both… I would regret to take a life feeling justifiable when a damn court ruled my actions were in violation of a penile code system….and it all could be avoided with a another means of SELF DEFENSE!
I think it's just responsible practice to at least incorporate pepper spray somewhere in your carry if you are going to carry a gun. HOWEVER, the choice to use a less lethal instead of a firearm is EXTREMELY situational. By all means, if the threat is obvious, imminent, clearly determined, or already engaging in potentially lethal violence, drop the sumbitch. But, if it's someone who is very clearly just mentally ill and they are advancing slowly with a knife or some other blade and still have a ways to go, pepper spray will definitely slow the guy down, probably won't kill him, and you can just immediately run away. No one had to die in that situation. Pepper spray is much smaller and more easily concealed than a firearm. If I'm carrying a firearm, it ain't too much trouble to find room in a pocket for pepper spray.
I may be missing something. If and individual threatens me,loved ones or innocent bystanders with grave bodily harm. That's the only reason to employ a firearm in self defense. I should draw out a non leathal weapon? I consider that crying wolf and also puts you at a disadvantage. The bad guy sees you go to draw and pulls out a real weapon and its game over. Ican draw from numerous character witnesses that can prove that o am the type to avoid confrontation and am not an emotional type. For me its clear,carry non lethal but don't depend on it.
I’d go for having less-lethal as first line, then firearm as second and last line. Too many people shoot first without looking at what they’re shooting at. That technically violates one of the four rules for handling firearms.
Less-lethal as designed for LEO, because they have a duty to de-escalate. If a civilian needs to use a less-lethal device, it's because they have no other option to try and stop the threat. We are NOT in the de-escalation business.
I can see where a young man and his buddies could have fun at the paintball range with one of these 'fireball launchers'...yes indeed. For EDC for serious situations, I'm with you. Better than a sharp stick.😎
I carry the TASER PULSE + It is a NOT a Stun gun. That just hurts. But a TASER that shoots a 15ft - 50,000v taser cartridge That completely immobilizes the attacker. They nervous system shuts down Police Taser only go for 5 seconds - Civilian Taser Pulse + models. Got for a FULL ** 30 SECOND ** TAZE. they offer this feature. So that your Able to SHOOT THE ATTACKER - DROP THE TASER AND RUN AWAY The. TASER SENDS YOUR A FREE ONE the next day Taser PULSE + also offers a feature called NOONLIGHT -. You shoot the taser and the police are Automatically sent to the GPS.of your.last shot. They get an alert that JOHNS TASER went off on 4th street and 20th ave. At house number 65. And they don't call my phone. They just Show up It's a great feature I'f your outnumbered and can't call for help. Just use the taser. And help is on the way I was in court for my taser a few months ago They said All TASERS MUST BE ON A LEG RIG or Shoulders holster on outside of jacket or have jacket around hip holster All TASERS just be OPEN CARRY. Not concealed carry. Open carry or it's a crime And they dropped my charge and told me even in a confrontation. If I pull it. I MUST USE IT. New York doesn't want you holding it saying GET BACK GET BACK -; The want it Open carry. So attackers or POLCIE CAN see you have it. Before you have to pull it. Otherwise it's just brandishing a weapon during a confrontation So they drop my charge but said This is why the law is Tasers are legal but just be open carry. Since it's NOT a firearm and we don't have a CONCEALED weapon permit. All less lethal Must be OPEN CARRY
Im sorry but you’re just wrong not every self defense situation calls for lethal force most don’t if you shoot someone because they punched you in the face I promise you’re going to jail & 29/30 times pointing your gun ends the situation so good luck with your mindset buddy less lethal tools like kubaton tactical pen is something I highly recommend you can’t use lethal force if the level of threat doesn’t call for lethal force also I don’t think you’ve ever seen someone get stabbed b4 they get out the fight immediately unless they’re already fighting & adrenaline has kicked in give in 5 seconds tops again delete this video you’re gonna get someone put in prison
I carry both, at the end of the day If I'm sitting in a courtroom I want that jury to know I did everything I could before I took that person's life. Great video!
You are correct my friend, I really wish we can dispense with the "less lethal aren't viable" position. Yes they clearly are. We have seen them used to deter and thwart criminal activity all the time. Just like any tool there's a time and place when it should be used, and less lethals should be a part of every gun enthusiasts arsenal of tools
I enjoyed your take on this difficult subject. I advocate for less lethal options (pepper spray, pepperballs, or kinetic impact projectiles in the 30-50 Joule range) as long as they don't compromise your physical safety for the sake of legal safety. Using the right tool for the right situation isn't an exact science so I agree with you that's easier said than done. Civilians also don't have the benefit of an armed well-equipped back-up team so having a firearm still becomes absolutely necessary.
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion! The pepperball devices I'm referring to are set to 280Joules.
@@inyourdefense0 Yes with 3g projectiles they hit up to about 28 Joules.
Your point that anyone who is morally adverse to killing another human being, should not carry lethal or less lethal devices is a significant one. You would think, therefore, that anyone trying to defend themselves or others from an extremely dangerous assailant, should carry a firearm, instead of a less lethal. Not necessarily. There are many everyday confrontational situations where using lethal force will caused the user to be arrested and likely incarcerated. A few examples are as follows: Road Rage, dealing with belligerent drunks both know and unknown, personal brawls, threatening animals, prowlers, etc. Various less lethal devices could be used in those situations as long as the user was not the aggressor. We probably all agree that being threaten with a firearm yielding assailant requires a firearm response if you morally roll like that and can legally own and operate the firearm. There are more variables and latitude when confronting a edge weapon yielding assailant with less than lethal, although a firearm is the best response. In the real world many situations are such that unless you have a 1.5 second draw and shoot or less, your only two options are compliance or death.
While I agree that what you're talking about as less lethal is probably not enough. However what is out there now in the not so general public space will stop someone no matter what an aggressors intent is.
Pain is a great deterant and the intent of a rapidly closing subject can always be argued. However, I must disagree with any premise that their is no place for less lethal. Any action that hinders or delays the mindset of an aggressor is a positive for the one being attacked. Seconds become options. One need only look at the animal kingdom for answers to this question. Think about it...
Thanks for your contribution to this discussion!
Thank you for this comment, saved me from essentially writing the same sentiment
But in fairness, most criminals flea at the sign of first resistance. Yes, I realize there are exceptions to that, but it is true that criminals are essentially cowards and that they generally do not want a lot of attention or a lot of fight.
You are correct in that most bad guys just run. HOWEVER, given all of the videos that I've see of actual engagements, they run AFTER either taking or receiving the first shots. They also are usually trying to return fire while running.
I just like HEADBUTTING people to defend myself against pretty much anything because My head is like that OF A SHARKFiN!!! Good vid capt.i enjoyed it
Why in the world would someone use less lethal ? well maybe they can't own a real gun or they don't want the responsibility of taking a life that's why almost anyone with any common science would agree if you can own and carry a canceled weapon that's a good option but not all threats warrant deadly force
This guy is a moron don't carry anything else but a firearm.
A lot of people can't or don't want to carry a firearm and pepper spray or gel is a good option
I had to use it and it's better than having to pull my knife
Pepper spray or gel has helped stop a lot of attacks.
he maybe the type of person who shoots the threat in the back while the threat is now running away and is no longer a threat. prosecutor will burn him. and if your aim is off you are highly likely to kill the wrong person.
Frfr
There's PCP airguns out there that are just as lethal as a firearm. The AEA HP SS .25/.30 and up can penetrate right through a car door from 25+ yards away and their semi auto. Very lethal with H&N hornet pellets. No way a person can withstand these type of airguns even from possibly 30 yards away. I only bring this up because of the title,, less than lethal tools.
Thank you for the education!!
Excellent video and content Sir. I think many ponder the questions you pose. I guess my honest answer is, I 'd like to get through this life without getting killed but also not having to kill anyone . The less lethal seems like a compromise, but as I grow older and less able I'm strongly considering a gun for all the reasons you state.
This guy is a complete moron.
He stopped carrying pepper spray because it could affect other people around.
Not every self defense situation requires the use of a firearm.
Pepper spray or pepper gel has saved many from being another victim.
Don't carry anything but a firearm.
He doesn't know anything about pepper ball guns and the calibers they are available in
43 50 68.
I carry pepper gel myself
Saber aim and fire pepper gel gun I used it and it works
Pull out a gun and shoot someone for a simple assault is basically what he's saying
Logical breakdown thank you
I look at it like this. I'm in California even if you have a concealed carry permit nearly no place you want to carry are you legally allowed to (malls, public parks, schools, restaurants, etc etc). So if I can legally carry a less than lethal everywhere it's a whole lot better than nothing. The exception is an active shooter intent on killing me or other innocent life at that point in the absence of a firearm I have few choices anyways. For home defense I have an HDP50 with significantly more joules than a Berna and I can assure you getting hit with a jawbreaker would do just that break your jaw or rib. This thing is not a toy. Now most people breaking into your home will be detered by pain not all but again better than nothing. All this said, there is an argument be made that less than lethal have a presumed safety that lend them to be more likely readily available for firing especially in those with small children. Like it or not some people don't feel connectable with lethal firearms loaded anywhere in there house but are willing to keep a loaded less lethal near by because in the event of a horrible accident they are just that less than lethal. I am a RN all the gun shot patients I have ever cared for where accident most often by them and one that was presumed to be a neighbors stray bullet. Only one person did i ever care for that was intentionally shot by someone else.
My S&W 38 Spl. snubnose is an excellent deterrent although we know its disadvantages, I still consider it better than my others semi automatics.
Nice "up-close-and-personal" pistol!
@@inyourdefense0 thanks for the love 💕
Good point about having backup or not.
Sir I couldn't agree more with you.. You have a new sub.
If a citizen is facing Lethal Event, I agree. If not lethal, someone about to or is pushing, shoving you, punch you then OC is way to go, IMO. I agree, if threat no deterred, then I don´t know. I cannot say, Ï´ll break contact b-c my family will not be able to break contact, they would stand there, deer in headlights. So, I don´t know what I would do, if OC does not work, if person dodges etc.No issue if facing lethal threat, but look at Kyle Rittenhouse and Zimmerman, cost was 100´s of thousands of dollars I´d think.
If I ever get a shotgun, I've thought about using less lethal ammo, but a few people have told me not to.
I had similar thoughts. The question still remains . . . what do you do if the "less-lethal" choice is insufficient?
@@inyourdefense0 Exactly. It might not stop the threat, also, it might just piss them off more. Civilians can get away with more than Police, we're not to as high a standard as they are.
A firearm is always better, but firearms is heavily regulated. For us living in europe we must be happy if we can have even there less lethal stuff. I think anything is better than nothing...
Good info. Love the shirt!!!
I guess you guys have not seen the penetration of the aluminum rounds at 465 fps. They will kill you at 20 ft most in home attacks. Right in the eye will end in the brain.
I think You made the case to carry a less lethal ….You stated…’ It’s some kind of a deterrent..that’s key….whether U plan to kill or subdue a jurisdiction will ultimately decide on that matter, however One must access the conflict rather quickly n coherently…I’ve now begun to carry both… I would regret to take a life feeling justifiable when a damn court ruled my actions were in violation of a penile code system….and it all could be avoided with a another means of SELF DEFENSE!
I think it's just responsible practice to at least incorporate pepper spray somewhere in your carry if you are going to carry a gun. HOWEVER, the choice to use a less lethal instead of a firearm is EXTREMELY situational. By all means, if the threat is obvious, imminent, clearly determined, or already engaging in potentially lethal violence, drop the sumbitch. But, if it's someone who is very clearly just mentally ill and they are advancing slowly with a knife or some other blade and still have a ways to go, pepper spray will definitely slow the guy down, probably won't kill him, and you can just immediately run away. No one had to die in that situation. Pepper spray is much smaller and more easily concealed than a firearm. If I'm carrying a firearm, it ain't too much trouble to find room in a pocket for pepper spray.
I may be missing something. If and individual threatens me,loved ones or innocent bystanders with grave bodily harm. That's the only reason to employ a firearm in self defense. I should draw out a non leathal weapon? I consider that crying wolf and also puts you at a disadvantage. The bad guy sees you go to draw and pulls out a real weapon and its game over. Ican draw from numerous character witnesses that can prove that o am the type to avoid confrontation and am not an emotional type. For me its clear,carry non lethal but don't depend on it.
I’d go for having less-lethal as first line, then firearm as second and last line. Too many people shoot first without looking at what they’re shooting at. That technically violates one of the four rules for handling firearms.
Less-lethal as designed for LEO, because they have a duty to de-escalate. If a civilian needs to use a less-lethal device, it's because they have no other option to try and stop the threat. We are NOT in the de-escalation business.
I can see where a young man and his buddies could have fun at the paintball range with one of these 'fireball launchers'...yes indeed.
For EDC for serious situations, I'm with you. Better than a sharp stick.😎
Less than
Or buy a polymer 80 in cash where a state where they are not already serializedd
You get ZRam steel 10 gram rounds and get a SMG m17 that shoot close to 1000 fps
I carry the
TASER PULSE +
It is a NOT a Stun gun. That just hurts. But a TASER that shoots a 15ft - 50,000v taser cartridge
That completely immobilizes the attacker. They nervous system shuts down
Police Taser only go for 5 seconds -
Civilian Taser Pulse + models. Got for a
FULL ** 30 SECOND ** TAZE.
they offer this feature. So that your Able to SHOOT THE ATTACKER - DROP THE TASER AND RUN AWAY
The. TASER SENDS YOUR A FREE ONE the next day
Taser PULSE + also offers a feature called NOONLIGHT -. You shoot the taser and the police are Automatically sent to the GPS.of your.last shot. They get an alert that JOHNS TASER went off on 4th street and 20th ave. At house number 65.
And they don't call my phone. They just Show up
It's a great feature I'f your outnumbered and can't call for help. Just use the taser. And help is on the way
I was in court for my taser a few months ago
They said
All TASERS MUST BE ON A LEG RIG or Shoulders holster on outside of jacket or have jacket around hip holster
All TASERS just be OPEN CARRY. Not concealed carry.
Open carry or it's a crime
And they dropped my charge and told me even in a confrontation. If I pull it. I MUST USE IT. New York doesn't want you holding it saying GET BACK GET BACK -;
The want it Open carry. So attackers or POLCIE CAN see you have it. Before you have to pull it.
Otherwise it's just brandishing a weapon during a confrontation
So they drop my charge but said
This is why the law is Tasers are legal but just be open carry. Since it's NOT a firearm and we don't have a CONCEALED weapon permit.
All less lethal Must be OPEN CARRY
Thanks for your contribution to this discussion.
I carry the Saber aim and fire pepper gel gun it has a 12' range very lightweight and compact.
Had to use it and works great
Im sorry but you’re just wrong not every self defense situation calls for lethal force most don’t if you shoot someone because they punched you in the face I promise you’re going to jail & 29/30 times pointing your gun ends the situation so good luck with your mindset buddy less lethal tools like kubaton tactical pen is something I highly recommend you can’t use lethal force if the level of threat doesn’t call for lethal force also I don’t think you’ve ever seen someone get stabbed b4 they get out the fight immediately unless they’re already fighting & adrenaline has kicked in give in 5 seconds tops again delete this video you’re gonna get someone put in prison