6:43 "David Brent's lack of self awareness, hunger for fame, and tendency towards being inappropriate made him--" Ricky Gervais. It made him Ricky Gervais.
Very unfair comment lol. Just because he makes a few trans jokes that don't land with you, that doesn't make him David brent. Only an acutely self-aware actor could possibly have played David Brent as well as Ricky did. And David Brent's whole thing is his lack of self-awareness. So Ricky categorically CANNOT be David brent.
@@bigoltits1880he can be considering his character was a parody of bosses he had and his view of their lack of self awareness, the very same kind of person he’s now become with no self awareness at all.
@@StuartM62 Oh i must have missed it when Ricky gervais embarrassed himself and tried dancing on an episode of So You Think You Can Dance, or when he released an entire music album to showcase his bad, yet confident music-making. Oh wait: Ricky gervais has done nothing of the sort. He has stuck to his lane of delivering solid dark comedy/melodrama TV shows and incredibly popular standup specials - that's all. Oh, and he made a few anti-trans jokes which you didn't like...He is still self-aware. No one who could have invented David Brent has it in them to NOT be self-aware.
You’ve misunderstood the Tim and Gareth dynamic. Tim doesn’t think being gay is bad or that it’s something a man should be mocked for. He knows Gareth thinks that though. So when you say it’s not nice to see Tim engaging in it, he isn’t engaging in it. He is playing on Gareth’s feelings on being seen as gay.
@@seanmccafferty2296 To me this is the most watered down version of say something like Harry Enfield used to do. The point always was that we're laughing AT the person who is deeply ashamed of being gay, or hates it due to lack of education/insight. The funny bit here, as the original commentor said, is that Tim isn't homophobic, nor is Dawn, Gareth is. So as a way to to not only reflect how literally stupid that point of view is AND to get one over on Gareth, Tim makes him out to be 'gay'. That's the point. You can't be as emotionally intelligent as Tim is and not get that.
Should've mentioned how Gevais doesn't acknowledge Merchant anymore as the co-creator of the office. It's bizarre and can't be a coincidence. It happened so many times.
@@samx2222 to be fair watching early interviews so often Merchant is there EXPLAINING the deeper aspects of the humour, plot, and adding often further complexity and depth to ricky that just... wasn't there.
One point to note is that in British culture, Brent as a middle class 'management' character would act differently around the blue collar guys in the warehouse, seeking acceptance that he will never get. This is how the warehouse manager seems to get away with things... ie. it isn't a commentary on his societal status from the writers' point of view, but rather from David's. Ricky (in IRL) even had a joke about how you instantly become more working class when asked to help a truck driver back up (ie. put on the affectation as this is seen as a 'manly' thing to do). David cannot scold them in any way as he fears their rejection, but this is a crowd who barely tolerate him, never mind accept him.
I was working in a shop in Bristol in the UK at that time. The boss was exactly like David Brent. *EXACTLY*. He had a management style just like Brent and fancied himself a comedian. He even looked just like him. A new woman started one day and my boss and I were giving her the tour of the shop and getting her situated in her job. She said, laughing at yet another of his stupid jokes, and completely unironically finding him funny, “oh my god, you’re just like David Brent!”. I almost died! I didn’t know what to do, because even though she seemed to think it was a compliment, I didn’t know how he would take it. Thankfully he hadn’t seen it at that point, though thinking back on it, I don’t know he would have been self aware enough to see David Brent isn’t a good character and probably would have taken it as the compliment she meant it as. 😅
The subtext of the kissing joke isn’t that Gareth is hiding he’s gay it’s more that Gareth is uncomfortable being called gay in the same way a child would kick off at being called it
Ye it doesn't seem the kind of joke that would land as well with Americans, but when you've been to English public school and dealt with several Gareth's the intent is far more clear.
a child is afraid of being outed as gay because they grow up in a world where it is constantly reinforced as a vulnerability for others to exploit and be framed heroically for it.
The thing with Gervais is he's way more like David Brent than he realised. And I think his response to fame, would have been Brent's reaction to fame. And the more famous he became the more and more it showed how Ricky was that boss who thought he was funny and thought he deserved the world when he just didn't and it comes across as ridiculous
@RancorousSea nothing hilarious about the David Brent movie; other than the sad comedy of how far Gervais had fallen without Merchant and how far his ego has been out of control for the last 15 years.
At first he had that humblebrag joke about his awards, "Ooh, eh? Look at all these BAFTAs! Innit?", but then it became clear that the humblebrags were all there was and they weren't even that humble any more.
@RancorousSea yes. You realize it but the guy who spends his life thinking about and writing comedy doesn't. I love coming to youtube comments threads to find the true unheralded geniuses of the arts and sciences.
This is my confusion with Ricky Gervais too, and why I can disassociate Office-era Gervais with present day Gervais, because The Office was entirely mocking people who behave like Gervais does now. He is always saying stuff that unintentionally sounds like Brent, especially when defending things he says that may cause offence.
@notmyproblem88 "you're not annoyed to criticise people because they're a professional and you're not" discounts 99% of criticism about 99% of things and shouldn't be treated as a valid point ngl
I do find it bizarre that Ricky Gervais says the office couldn't be made today. Keep in mind the same year the office came out the Brass Eye special called Paedogeddon, yes Paedogeddon which had the most complaints of any TV show in UK history came out. An epsiode with so many jokes removed by the producers Chris Morris, Shane Allen & Peter Baynham the writers put a subliminal message in the episode that called the producer a w*nker, uncensored of course. And Ricky is claiming his show that goes "ha gay" and "look how fat he is" is at all something people would cancel. At most people will say that's not funny, which isn't canceling it's their personal taste. Chris Morris however says it's no harder now than back then for him to get his actual pushing the boundary comedy projects off the ground.
@@zetsubou9780 If the person who made the most controversial TV shows in UK history says it's not any harder now than back then, I think that gives you a much better indication. Than Ricky who tells people on his netflix special that he's been cancelled and they couldn't make the office today a relatively Benign for UK standards comedy.
Ricky Gervais is just one of those redpilled comedians who complain about being canceled all the time now. So I take most of what he says with a grain of salt, especially about this kind of stuff.
I think The Office being a case study in how we conceptualise bullying, bullies, and the relationship between the two, bears real scrutiny. This is because Ricky Gervais has aspired to be a bully his whole life, but also craves approval, so he only acts as a bully when he thinks it is 'okay' to do so. This may be him making a series of crude, demeaning and sexist insults to a whole room, which he thinks is okay because it is the golden globes and it is just puncturing egos. He flaunts his education and sneers at those who do not have it all the time, as seen in any interaction he has with Karl Pilkington. He sets up Karl to go on a roadtrip with Warwick Davies, knowing Karl is curious but also often socially and insensitive, and arranges it so they happen to pass by a bunch of attractions and locales that exploit or marginalise those with dwarfism, so he can get hilarious content out of the inevitable animosity. People sometimes look at David Brent as an act of modesty on Gervais part, a self-depreciating element of his own worst aspects, but I now view it as something more sinister. He wants people to believe he is Brent, so they don't realise he is actually Finch.
I've always read him as the opposite. Watch Gervais closely and he'll only bully when he's feeling bad or thinks his ego is being threatened. I think it's a defensive compulsion rather than his norm.
This was my favorite series of all time when it first came out and I’ve had trouble figuring out my relationship with it and Ricky Gervais in the 20+n years since it’s aired. Thanks for putting such thoughtful words to it. I always enjoy your work.
same... i watched it in the US, just found it in a video store my junior year of college, when virtually nobody here had seen it, and I didn't know wtf I was watching at first, it was such a sea change from anything that had come before it, at least that i'd seen. and by the 3rd episode i was so enthralled. i mean a friend and i binged it the first day we watched it. and i liked some of his earlier specials well enough, tho having gone back and listened to some of them, or should i say tried to, they've aged incredibly poorly. haven't watched this yet but i think it was a groundbreaking series and sad as Gervais has become he's still capable of making affecting and original TV, it just happens one or 2 episodes over the span of a show. i'll at least owe to this my exploration of 90s and 00s Britcoms... from Darkplace to Nathan Barley to Snuff Box to the Day Today/Brass Eye to Mitchell & Webb, Boosh, i could go on... what an amazingly fecund time for such a small nation, industry (& budgets afforded)
José i LOVE your retrospectives. It's cozy to experience a sitcom in its abridged entirety, while also having insight into the production, and your commentary addressing the underlying culture of the time it came out (that would otherwise be offputting to me trying to watch a series like this on my own).❤
2 things: - For non-Brits, Quality Street is a long existing brand of cheap assorted chocolate boxes/tins, hence Equality Street. - David Brent IS Ricky Gervais. If you watch enough of Gervais, you can see that he embodies much of Brent in intermittent bursts (the same symptom that I believe compels his more distasteful jabs). He's a failed pop singer, so turned to radio before stumbling into TV. He's chased fame the same way Brent has, albeit with some actual talent and success, all for the promise of recognition. This is made strikingly obvious in conversations he's had with his perceived heroes (see Talking Funny). The real difference between Brent and Gervais is that when his demons aren't controlling him, Gervais is secretly and silently very aware of them and their detrimental effect on him and those around him. This is why he can write and perform Brent so well along with other shows like Extras and After Life.
We have Quality Street in Canada. And boy oh boy, they aren't "cheap" here lol. Grossly overpriced and marketed as a "staple" of Christmases here. Not sure what a 600-750g tin goes for in the UK, but we'll get charged $16-$22 Canadian buying it at the grocery store or drug store in stock, not even "imported". And that isn't "inflation" related, been that way for at least a decade now.
49:05 one note here is that it is very common in British Sitcoms for the main character to lose and for weighty dramatic scenes. Yes compared to US sitcoms, as you said it's unsual. However for a british one it's pretty normal, that isn't to say it was less impactful, just pretty standard. I.e. Only Fools and Horses the most popular british sitcom of all time, had an episode about the funeral for one of the main characters who had also died in real life, in fact the show did that not once but twice. It is hilarious yet puts a lump in your throat and moves you to tears, with a focus on how individuals go through the grieving process. The show also had 3, 1 hr and half long chrsitmas specials in which the first Rodney and his Wife Cassandra get pregnant, in the second they are all excited to have a baby, until the end where she has a miscarriage (played seriously) keep in mind this is a christmas special. In the third it explores coming to terms with loss. All very serious and at the same time hilarious, somehow even from just one line to the next you go from crying to laughing. And that is a family friendly british sitcom watched by a third to a half of the British public at the time. And if you point that out to a British person they wouldn't have even thought that was unusal.
What I’ve always preferred that about the way British sitcoms deal with serious and sad storylines. They just let them speak for themselves. I’ve always hated that US comedies tend to use them for moralising.
Couldn't agree more, John Sullivan was a better, smarter, kinder, and vastly more talented person than RG could ever dream of being. Now to find a good Only Fools retrospective... And hey, if you like to hatewatch terrible adaptions as I sometimes do, go find "The King of Van Nuys" and be equal parts alarmed/deeply confused.
I grew up in Teddington where The Office was shot. The studio has been bulldozed now and rebuilt as luxury riverside flats. So much stuff was filmed there that even after ten years it’s still hard to believe that it’s actually gone.
@@itsMrNoble How towns go through this revitalisation an rebranding to become more 'modern' but doing so they remove buildings that are key to their identity. Slough is doing this at the moment (though its put on hold since they've gone bankrupt) and a lot of old buildings and pubs that have been there for decades have been wiped. Highly recommend watching the vid!
You came very close to making a point about Gervais himself that I think of every time I see him. He "pretended" to be "David Brent" but, just like David Brent, he didn't really get the joke he was making. Every project he does reveals more of his bullying tendency and less of his humanity. The Office (UK) is still my favorite Office, but Steve Carrell as Michael Scott is a much better performance, simply because SC has genuine empathy and curiosity for the characters he portrays. His Michael Scott performance is funnier, more painful, and more realistic than RG's David Brent because he isn't doing an ironic impression of a smarmy boss; he's embodying the state of desperation for validation that many of us have felt in some part of our lives 😭
I heard an interview with Steve Carrell where he said Gervais had told him something like "Everyone knows someone like David Brent, and if you don't know one you are them." I've always felt like that was a bit of a self-report
It really baffles me the amount of people who have never once thought that maybe the guy who is always cast to play/is so good at playing a smarmy, cruel, self-absorbed prick might actually just be a smarmy, cruel, self-absorbed prick.
Lol this is such bullshit. Dumb people have been making this lame pseudo-observation since the show aired. Gervais was very funny and self aware at the time. This feeling that some people had about Gervais seems more true now because he's so shit and cringe. But it's not.
Some of my favorite content on the platform. The one he did on dinosaurs was especially cool because I had no idea how interesting and subversive that show was. But he had a bunch of other great ones too from Frasier, Cheers to the fresh Prince, The Golden girls
Jordan Peele, when transitioning to horror writing, made a a statement in an interview about how horror and comedy really aren’t that different. I didn’t really understand what he meant, until you made the roller coaster analogy. Cringe comedy is painful in real life, just like being in actual danger is literally horrifying. But the power of media is that you get to experience this while knowing that you are actually emotionally (or physically) safe.
Great observation, I think that’s also why horror-comedies work so well: if you have the brain for one, you can have the brain for the other. And they go together like peanut butter and jelly.
I think he always was. I saw him in those old Channel 4 countdowns and he kept making the most childish observations. (E.g. Going on about how the Shake 'n' Vac lady was 'definitely a dirty woman')
Fantastic work as always! Would love to see you cover more British sitcoms. I'm absolutely crying out for a Blackadder or Peep Show retrospective now 🤞
@@DanKeatisNothing would ever match the surreal energy of the alternate universe where the American pilot of IT Crowd caught on, with Joel McHale as Roy and Richard Ayoade still playing Moss.
Looking at this and thinking of some of Gervais more recent comments/humor I feel like his character may have been fundamentally more honest to himself than he may have known
Gervais says a show like "The Office" (UK) couldn't get made today. Meanwhile: "Broad City" aired recently; "Veep" ran until 2019; "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia" and "South Park" are *_still running._* Not to mention, plenty of similarly "offensive" (in the way Gervais means) comedians are still getting paid millions of dollars to produce stand up specials: Chappelle, Roseanne Barr, Rob Schneider, hell, *_Gervais himself._* Rich celebrities *_do not get "cancelled"!_* They get *_criticised,_* possibly dropped from a gig or two, and then just make the pivot to more right-wing-friendly material and rake in the dough.
personally I think when older comedians say their work couldn't get made today they're revealing their own thin skinned nature and inability to deal with backlash on a more personal level
@@redactedredacted6656 100% Agree. Comedians can still make all the offensive jokes they want, they're just a lot more likely to be aware of the criticism directed at them for homophobia, sexism, racism, etc... due to social media these days.
Sorry but you can't compare American TV shows shown on private TV networks to British public broadcasting. Not saying your point about it running now is wrong but the examples you have used don't actually add anything to your point because you aren't talking about the same countries let alone companies.
@@maxb148 Yeah, the Beeb is a state owned public broadcaster funded by public money, so it has more restrictions than private companies like Channel 4 and is more subject to the beliefs of the general public. The BBC also will never run any programme that even vaguely critcises the utter embarrassment that is our royal family. *_Believe_* me, I am fully on board with hating on the BBC's restrictive broadcasting guidelines. However, the fact still remains that Gervais loves saying dumb shit like "The world's gone woke, you could never make it these days", and that is patently ridiculous.
@@LoganBluthGenuinely curious how you think any of the programs you mentioned are anything like the office? The mean streak in the office is pretty much gone from television. South Park comes the closest but it’s a cartoon and at no point does it feel as mean. Always sunny especially only mocks the main characters it doesn’t have any particularly cruel elements.
Fantastic video - the office is one of my favourite series of all time. I think you missed the mark on the section about Tim making Gareth say “gay” stuff. I don’t agree that there is an implication that Gareth struggling with being homosexual, he’s only ever shown as interested in women, and is horrified by the proposal of a threesome with a woman and her husband. Gareth is repeatedly shown to be homophobic, and that’s why Tim finds it funny to make Gareth “appear” as saying “gay” things. I agree the kiss was crossing a line, but his teasing is not rooted in trying to make Gareth confront his inner homosexuality, it’s rooted in making Gareth speak/act in conflict with his overt homophobia.
I don't disagree with you, but I felt the need to respond to this: "he’s only ever shown as interested in women, and is horrified by the proposal of a threesome with a woman and her husband" This is actually a trope in and of itself, the overcompensating "straight guy" who turns out to be gay. The guy who acts so repulsed by the idea of two men grazing skin with each other because they're trying to throw other people off the trail, so to speak. I think this is the difference in reading between you and Jose.
I just wanted to mention how much I appreciate your videos, the professional tone stands out on this platform and makes me feel like I’m watching a documentary.
Funny, that description of Slough really fits the entire Northeast Pennsylvania area, especially the stretch from Allentown, through Stroudsburg and the Poconos, and all the way up to, you guessed it: Scranton. It's not quite New York. It's not quite Philly. Hell, it doesn't even have a beach like the Jersey towns. It's just a place. Not a place to be. Just. A place.
That's what I was thinking with Scranton in the US version. Any time a character has to go to a major city on the show, it's usually either Philly or New York
I think you missed the mark on Tim’s “antagonism of Gareth’s sexuality.” Tim’s point is not to mock Gareth for being closeted but to mock his homophobia.
@@guybarritt8632 Being homophobic and making fun of people more homophobic than you is also not mutually exclusive. I knew plenty of guys who were quite clearly homophobic who thought they could get away with it because they made fun of people who were more blatant about it (i.e. directly using slurs rather than making veiled jokes). I've always found the "let's make fun of the homophobic guy by pretending he's gay" to be homophobic in itself, presenting being gay as some sort of shameful thing. Obviously the intention is to make fun of how ridiculous that position is but it can come across that way and it's something I saw growing up.
Quick notes: Lucy Davis' father is Jasper Carrott, a huge uk stand up comic. The theme tune Handbags and Gladrags may have been arranged by Big George, but mention should be made of vocalist Fin Muir, a heavy metal singer best known for his tenure in Waysted.
It’s quite typical of British humour really. American humour tend to turn that sadness into moralising. British humour just lets it hang there to speak for itself.
The American Office is a more optimistic and idealised vision of working life than the UK version. Even if the job is boring, there is an ensemble of zany personalities around so that no two days are ever the same. The UK version is a slightly exaggerated reflection of the pessimistic outlook Brits have towards work.
@@Fank234 yeah you can definitely tell this guy watched the American version first before he watched the British one. Guys softer than a piece of tissue paper with all the “bullying” talk lol.
What always gets overlooked is that Neil Godwin, the popular, funny and professional area manager, Brent's nemesis - is a far worse character. He laughs and joins in with Finch's jokes, including when Finch refers to Carol as a dog. Brent contantly gets in trouble for making inappropriate and arguably offensive jokes, yet both Finch and Neil seem to get a pass. Much as I am a fan of The Office, the fact that that gets ignored always irks me.
this was really great! i appreciate you leaving the U.S version out for the most part - most i see about the original is how it compares to the one we all know but this gave me a completely new perspective that makes me want to watch it as it's own thing
The Christmas special gives Brent a certain amount of redemption. Towards the end, we see him almost butting in for the attention of Chris Finch from Neil (who shows something of an unpleasant side to himself), yet when he finally dismisses him, he's no longer "Finchy", but just plain "Chris". A relatively minor indication that he is finally getting a grip flashes up for a few seconds when we him actually dancing "normally"
While I've always liked your retrospectives, it's been difficult to fully appreciate them since most of the sitcoms I love are British (due in no small part to being a Brit myself!). The Office was the first sitcom that really made me fall in love with the medium when I first saw it with my parents when I was about 14, you've really done it justice by talking about what makes it so special - I really need to re-watch the full series at some point and I'll have to check out that Ben Walters book. A tragic irony that Gervais these days has lost a lot of the self-awareness that makes Brent work as a character.
I think Tim’s bullying and homophobia is crucial to the show. For one thing it was completely common for his type of person at the time, and it makes his character realistic. But also, yes, we are meant to feel sorry for Gareth and see the small mindedness of Tim who takes his anger at his whole life out on Gareth. The office is making him cruel, he’s not exempt just because he isn’t as bone-headed as Brent or Gareth. The show would lose its essence (become more American) if Tim was a heightened perfectly moral leading man
Great doc, but Gareth and theories of being gay I don’t agree with. The attempt to get Gareth to say ‘gay’ things was Gareth being homophobic. I never once thought they thought he was gay, more wanting to make him say things he wouldn’t say. Later when Gareth’s girlfriend rang him, there was no shock or surprise.
Totally agree. There seems to be a misconception that homophobic people are gay. Sure, plenty of LGBT people have talked about dealing with internalized homophobia, but some people are just bigoted jerks. I’ve noticed that a lot of vocal homophobes here in the US turn out to be pedophiles or predatory ( making unwanted advances at someone of the opposite sex and not respecting boundaries in general). (Ie Catholic Priests, the Duggars, “family values” politicians, Mega Church pastors, edge lords, etc.
Yeah I think a lot of people mistake the target of the joke in Gervais's comedy, including the creator of this video ... but then again getting Americans to understand the nuance of British comedy is often a tough ask.
@@ScouseJazmin it was also funny when Jose showed the clip of David Brent quoting "Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em" and it was clear he didn't get the reference. Honestly tho, it's probably for the best no one outside the UK knows what Michael Crawford did before "Phantom of the Opera". Lol.
I wish you could cover Alan Partridge. I still think he's one of the funniest characters ever invented. He did that one show with two seasons. That one was brilliant. I heard some of his From the Oasthouse podcast and it is freaking fantastic. UK tv is some of the best TV out there
It would be hard to do that without also diving into On The Hour, The Day Today and Brass Eye (which I would love to see covered too), since On The Hour and The Day Today are obviously where the character originates, and you can't really cover those two without covering Brass Eye.
It's testament to the genius of Steve Coogan and Armando Iannucci that Alan Partridge is still with us, thirty years on. That's a decade longer than Only Fools and Horses. And Partridge hasn't remained static, instead he's developed over the years, making him one of the most complex fictional characters seen on screen. He's surely the greatest clown ever invented, and that's coming from someone who grew up with Fawlty Towers.
Stephen Merchant was a guest on the British radio show Desert Island Discs last year and he shared a very funny anecdote about how when negotiating with the BBC, he said something to the effect of "we could be the next Orson Welles" and someone at the BBC responded like "yeah but you might not be", and apparently it never occurred to them they might not be the next Orson Welles. I don't know if I have a point sharing this, I just thought it was funny lol.
Really enjoyed this, great video. I don't think Brent is a bully per say, more that he is so dependent on the approval of those around him and weak from it that he abandons all sense of self-restraint and censorship. For me, the most uncomfortable moment in the show is the Comic Relief episode where a humiliated colleague gets stripped despite his protestations - Brent goes along with it as it's all about fitting in.
I’ve tried to watch the American office and since I’d only seen the British one I just don’t understand the American one at all, it’s just actual jokes instead of melancholic gallows humour
I see the US version more as a comedy-drama done in the style of a sitcom. It's entertaining and engaging but the jokes and funny bits seem to be secondary to the storylines.
@@Lenntill19 yeah it seemed story heavy and just much lighter hearted in general tone, almost no bleakness with a lot of happy endings, the humour felt silly rather than cringe or depressing and bleak
@@phrakture8888 Yeah it took a while - especially with the change from the first season to the 2nd - to get used to a much more upbeat show. I missed the cynicism and, as you say, bleakness.
It's comfy cozy viewing. Happy endings and people learning things and all that... remonds me of how the movie "The Descent " had to change its sad ending to a happy one for the US version. The audience's comfort takes precedence over artistic intent. I'm not American or British but I prefer The Office UK. The faux doc fits better with that tone. Sometimes in the us version it becomes unbelievable that it's a doc and feels so scripted that renders the doc aspect obsolete. I still love American sitcoms like 30 Rock and the Grinder (a very underappreciqted show) and Lady Dynamite and have nothing against sentimentality but office us feels too meandering and comft and ultimately void of any significance or substance.
@@steamedhamlet yes I agree with this, I am British and often enjoy the American take on things, including happy endings, but in my opinion something was lost in the translation of the office, basically everything honestly. Not to disparage the great cast of the US office but the “idea” behind the UK one just isn’t there in the US show and I feel so many people, mostly Americans, have no idea what they missed out on
To be fair plenty of people find Gervais funny, comedy is so subjective you don't really have a right to call someone unfunny. Especially when the person you are calling not funny is an extremely successful comedian.
@@harleyokeefe5193 Check the comment again, I didn’t state that he is objectively unfunny. You can disagree and enjoy your comedian all you want, and I very much have the RIGHT to make a joke at the expense of some loser who doesn’t know what shirts fit him and who thinks that saying god isn’t real is a punchline.
@@levi1929 He isn't my comedian and I never said you don't have the right to make a joke. My point was simply that calling comedians unfunny is a pointless statement as a LOT of people do find him funny.
@@harleyokeefe5193 What you said is that I don’t have the right to call him unfunny. a) Yes, I do b) I didn’t say that c) If all it takes is a large audience, then Jeff Dunham is the funniest comedian of all time. If he’s not “your comedian” then why are you trying to argue with someone who says he sucks? You’re not even stating your opinion, you’re just trying to silence mine. And then you have the nerve to tell me that MY comment is pointless. Wtf?
A small point I'd like to add (as someone who's watched the series through more times than I count) is how "low effort" all the shots, scenes and scripts look but behind the scenes you see how much effort when in to it. Gervais and Merchant would literally place people down to the inch on where they should stand and do 20 takes for a 2 sentence cutaway which they would then rewrite and edit out anyway. The whole show is the saying "looking effortless takes a lot of effort". They put a crazy amount of effort into it and its a testament to what effort and 2 funny blokes can pull off. They reshaped an entire industry, created a whole new category of TV and launched the most successfully international re-adapted show ever.
While I'm glad you talk about this show, because I think it's managed to form some incredible sitcoms off the back of it (such as Parks and Rec). But I'm also glad you mention Ricky's actions because it also reflects very well on him in this show. A few people made some comments about this but I feel like Ricky's actions are overshadowed by his humour - which is more like Finch's rather than Brent's.
In case you haven't seen the Mackenzie Crook sitcom Detectorists, do yourself a favour and look it up. It might not be for everyone, but it's gentle and funny and lovely. An absolute gem. Great video!
So nice to see José be able to watch something enjoyable again. In that spirit, I'd be fascinated to see José cover the life work of Michael Apted, The Up Series documentarian, who started filming a group of British children drawn from varying classes + backgrounds at 7yo then every 7 years he'd film the same children. They did it for decades & you'd see the class differences-outcomes over time. I'd be interested in hearing José explore that series.
David Brent and Gareth made me laugh very, very hard. The central story is Tim and Dawn, and I thought it was shattering. Never expected the level of realism, tenderness, and emotion. Blended with the comedy, the tragedy made my head spin. A wonderful view into UK culture, and sensibilities.
What a lovely video. I hadn't been with these characters for a very long time and it was nice to relive, and to be shown new depths I wasn't able to comprehend back when I last watched it
Excellent video, inspired me to go back and rewatch it. I last saw the show maybe 15 years ago! Out of interest Jose, have you ever seen Peep Show? I feel like it would make for an interesting deep dive of a similar vein.
Please consider Moral Orel- would love to see an analysis of that series as it was so prophetic in terms of where we are today. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 bonus: the whole series is only 4-5 hours in total and available on YT. Also- completely agree that the original version was better than the US version (comparing the first two seasons) but the US version evolved into something completely different as it went on. I think I was so annoyed with the US one at first because the first few episodes were almost a carbon copy of the original. Sucks that Gervais is someone I find incredibly irritating now bc I loved Extras and his stand-up when he used to talk about fun animal facts. His current material is whiny and boring at best, and cruel at worst. So bizarre to me that wealthy entertainers can show so much resentment towards the very people whose attention made them wealthy because THEY became people who the audience is no longer interested in… it’s not our fault you can’t hold our attention any longer and being hostile while complaining about ‘cancel culture’ (on a huge platform) might be hilarious- it’s the only funny thing you’ve done in years. Oh well. Shame.
😊 I didn't know they were influenced heavily by this is spinal tap but it makes sense. Maybe my favorite comedy movie ever. Maybe my favorite movie ever.
The Outlaws was great, wasn't it? And how about Martin Freeman? The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, The Responder, The Cornetto Trilogy, Fargo...I love that guy! Detectorists is great too, it has Toby Jones and everything. I still listen to that Johnny Flynn song regularly. Has anyone else ever seen Crusade in Jeans?
P.S. I'm not crazy (-er than anyone else). I wanted to leave a comment for the algorithm gods, so I just wrote down some random, ADD-fueled thoughts that popped into my head while watching as I actually have nothing to say about The Office. I've never found myself able to sit through an entire episode of it. Don't know why. Sure, it could be Gervais but then again, I've never liked the U.S. version either.
The term 'underrated' is bandied around too much on the internet these days, but that's exactly how I would describe The Detectorists. It's a little masterpiece.
Growing up watching the Office: have to confess I found it somewhat depressing and I did secretly want there to episode where there was a revolution and they overthrew the system
My mother couldn't watch The Office. Not because she thought it was bad, but because she had previously had a coworker who was so like David Brent, it was borderline painful to watch the character. And fwiw, as a Brit, I'd love to see you tackle British sitcoms more often!
In The office (and other comedies), Gervais is really telling on himself. He played a person who wanted everyone to like him but who bullied others and had no self-awareness whatsoever. It's crazy how Gervais purposefully made a character without self-awareness, while being completely unaware of his own bad behaviour. Today, he lashes out at critics because his ego got hurt and because his need to be loved was denied. It's never his fault, it's always the "woke SJWs" ... I liked his humour and enjoyed some of his works a lot. But the way he turned out today is just off putting. Like so many others, he replaced his comedy with stupid rants.
I think the character he played initially was a over the top mockery of himself initially when he had more humility as a comic starting out. Then years of being typecast, getting older, getting more ego that over the top character slowly became more and more related to who he is. As you can see with the older interviews and stuff he def was more of a normal down to earth person with a deep understanding of comedy. Now he just tells tired lazy jokes that are purely just attention seeking.
from the interviews at the time (DVD extras etc), Gervis seemed to think Brent was relatable and likeable. no, he was a horrible abusive boss who made life hell for his colleagues
POLITICAL DISSIDENT ALERT. Nothing changed. What happened is you became and butt of about 10% of his jokes, and you don’t like it, because like the rest of you, you’re a spoiled narcisstic child who takes yourself too seriously. He lampooned Hollywood, he’s done a lot of things. The moment it got to your politics, he’s a bad, bad man. You people are the definition of fanatical zealots.
It couldn’t exist in the way it did today. On RUclips it could, but actively cruel and degrading humour that doesn’t mock the characters making the cruel jokes is gone. The same way you don’t get comedians making jokes about Koreans eating dogs on tv today but if you turned on the telly in the 80’s it was a common joke. Some things do become socially passé over time.
Idk how you can say this when there has been a shockingly low amount of any comedy being released nowadays. TV heads and movie producers don't want to risk it - something like the office *wouldn't* be made today, and that is a fact.
its just so fucking funny to me how often descriptions of David Brent fit perfectly onto Ricky Gervais. even descriptions *from* Gervais sound like he's accidentally describing himself. its insane
I've always though Gervais was a prick but I can't help but admire how fearless this show was. It wrestles with some heavy themes and things don't go well for everyone.
The UK office is an incredibly rare work of genius. A generational magnum opus. Lightning in a bottle. I'm a welder by trade and I'm sure I couldn't make one of the greatest comedy works of all...actually I could do what Steve and Ricky did, and I think they knew that even back then. Probably what spurred 'em on.
One of the UK comedies that kind of prepared me for The Office's naturalism was the Royle Family. It demanded an attention to very subtle details that weren't overtly comedic. Mainly things like glances, non-verbal reactions, long moments focused on a character's resting face in anticipation of something happening. It's a very patient kind of comedy that slowly builds the qualities of a character more intimately. I'd also reference the pilot to Curb Your Enthusiasm (1999 I think), which had a similar quality. Very naturalistic and unassuming in its delivery. Yet if you're patient enough with it, it is a reflection of the human condition that, while not laugh out loud every minute, delivers something much deeper in comedic terms. Something was clearly happening around that time in terms of a shift in how we perceive comedy, both in the UK and US. I think it became more subtle and nuanced, with less reliance on a situational punchline followed by canned laughter.
I still think “she said no, by the way” is one of the most gut wrenching moments in sitcom history
The clip alone made me cry watching this video 😭
the whole thing (him getting up from the interview and all) is brilliant tv. they really nailed the subtle stuff
Martin Freeman is such an underrated actor
6:43 "David Brent's lack of self awareness, hunger for fame, and tendency towards being inappropriate made him--" Ricky Gervais. It made him Ricky Gervais.
Gervais wrote and played this character so well because it's who he is and always was.
Very unfair comment lol. Just because he makes a few trans jokes that don't land with you, that doesn't make him David brent. Only an acutely self-aware actor could possibly have played David Brent as well as Ricky did. And David Brent's whole thing is his lack of self-awareness. So Ricky categorically CANNOT be David brent.
@@bigoltits1880he can be considering his character was a parody of bosses he had and his view of their lack of self awareness, the very same kind of person he’s now become with no self awareness at all.
@@StuartM62 Oh i must have missed it when Ricky gervais embarrassed himself and tried dancing on an episode of So You Think You Can Dance, or when he released an entire music album to showcase his bad, yet confident music-making. Oh wait: Ricky gervais has done nothing of the sort. He has stuck to his lane of delivering solid dark comedy/melodrama TV shows and incredibly popular standup specials - that's all. Oh, and he made a few anti-trans jokes which you didn't like...He is still self-aware. No one who could have invented David Brent has it in them to NOT be self-aware.
You’ve misunderstood the Tim and Gareth dynamic. Tim doesn’t think being gay is bad or that it’s something a man should be mocked for. He knows Gareth thinks that though. So when you say it’s not nice to see Tim engaging in it, he isn’t engaging in it. He is playing on Gareth’s feelings on being seen as gay.
V true!
It's still casual homophobia. It reflects life at the time but it's still pretty sad to look back on as acceptable
@@seanmccafferty2296 To me this is the most watered down version of say something like Harry Enfield used to do. The point always was that we're laughing AT the person who is deeply ashamed of being gay, or hates it due to lack of education/insight. The funny bit here, as the original commentor said, is that Tim isn't homophobic, nor is Dawn, Gareth is. So as a way to to not only reflect how literally stupid that point of view is AND to get one over on Gareth, Tim makes him out to be 'gay'. That's the point. You can't be as emotionally intelligent as Tim is and not get that.
Sean grow up
Should've mentioned how Gevais doesn't acknowledge Merchant anymore as the co-creator of the office. It's bizarre and can't be a coincidence. It happened so many times.
Really? Where has he done this?
He addressed a group at Oxford University (May have been Cambridge) talking about The Office and doesn't mention Merchant at all.
@@jaymercer4692I think post - Life On The Road he just omits Stephen from any interview he gives about the office. It's very weird.
@@CapsLock959Which is a belter, when you realize how unfunny Life on The Road is (and almost deffo due to the fact that Merchant isn't involved..)
@@samx2222 to be fair watching early interviews so often Merchant is there EXPLAINING the deeper aspects of the humour, plot, and adding often further complexity and depth to ricky that just... wasn't there.
One point to note is that in British culture, Brent as a middle class 'management' character would act differently around the blue collar guys in the warehouse, seeking acceptance that he will never get. This is how the warehouse manager seems to get away with things... ie. it isn't a commentary on his societal status from the writers' point of view, but rather from David's. Ricky (in IRL) even had a joke about how you instantly become more working class when asked to help a truck driver back up (ie. put on the affectation as this is seen as a 'manly' thing to do). David cannot scold them in any way as he fears their rejection, but this is a crowd who barely tolerate him, never mind accept him.
I was working in a shop in Bristol in the UK at that time. The boss was exactly like David Brent. *EXACTLY*. He had a management style just like Brent and fancied himself a comedian. He even looked just like him. A new woman started one day and my boss and I were giving her the tour of the shop and getting her situated in her job. She said, laughing at yet another of his stupid jokes, and completely unironically finding him funny, “oh my god, you’re just like David Brent!”. I almost died! I didn’t know what to do, because even though she seemed to think it was a compliment, I didn’t know how he would take it. Thankfully he hadn’t seen it at that point, though thinking back on it, I don’t know he would have been self aware enough to see David Brent isn’t a good character and probably would have taken it as the compliment she meant it as. 😅
What the hell? She must've been a feminine version of him too and laughed at his _wacky_ antics all through the series.
To be honest it sounds like the only person with a problem here was you
The subtext of the kissing joke isn’t that Gareth is hiding he’s gay it’s more that Gareth is uncomfortable being called gay in the same way a child would kick off at being called it
Well said
Ye it doesn't seem the kind of joke that would land as well with Americans, but when you've been to English public school and dealt with several Gareth's the intent is far more clear.
Yeah there was a couple of things this guy seems to have not fully understood about the Tim and Gareth dynamic.
Are you stupid @@frenchguitarguy1091
a child is afraid of being outed as gay because they grow up in a world where it is constantly reinforced as a vulnerability for others to exploit and be framed heroically for it.
The thing with Gervais is he's way more like David Brent than he realised. And I think his response to fame, would have been Brent's reaction to fame. And the more famous he became the more and more it showed how Ricky was that boss who thought he was funny and thought he deserved the world when he just didn't and it comes across as ridiculous
@RancorousSea nothing hilarious about the David Brent movie; other than the sad comedy of how far Gervais had fallen without Merchant and how far his ego has been out of control for the last 15 years.
At first he had that humblebrag joke about his awards, "Ooh, eh? Look at all these BAFTAs! Innit?", but then it became clear that the humblebrags were all there was and they weren't even that humble any more.
@RancorousSea yes. You realize it but the guy who spends his life thinking about and writing comedy doesn't. I love coming to youtube comments threads to find the true unheralded geniuses of the arts and sciences.
This is my confusion with Ricky Gervais too, and why I can disassociate Office-era Gervais with present day Gervais, because The Office was entirely mocking people who behave like Gervais does now. He is always saying stuff that unintentionally sounds like Brent, especially when defending things he says that may cause offence.
@notmyproblem88 "you're not annoyed to criticise people because they're a professional and you're not" discounts 99% of criticism about 99% of things and shouldn't be treated as a valid point ngl
RIP Ewen MacIntosh, who played Keith.
One of my favorites. Kevin did him justice in the American version
He ain’t dead
@@creyag981he dieeeeeed
@@creyag981He died in February you fool
I do find it bizarre that Ricky Gervais says the office couldn't be made today. Keep in mind the same year the office came out the Brass Eye special called Paedogeddon, yes Paedogeddon which had the most complaints of any TV show in UK history came out. An epsiode with so many jokes removed by the producers Chris Morris, Shane Allen & Peter Baynham the writers put a subliminal message in the episode that called the producer a w*nker, uncensored of course. And Ricky is claiming his show that goes "ha gay" and "look how fat he is" is at all something people would cancel. At most people will say that's not funny, which isn't canceling it's their personal taste. Chris Morris however says it's no harder now than back then for him to get his actual pushing the boundary comedy projects off the ground.
Just because Morris says that doesn't make it true.
@@zetsubou9780 If the person who made the most controversial TV shows in UK history says it's not any harder now than back then, I think that gives you a much better indication. Than Ricky who tells people on his netflix special that he's been cancelled and they couldn't make the office today a relatively Benign for UK standards comedy.
Yeah it’s silly considering the Office has never been more popular than it is now lol
Chris Morris is a treasure
Ricky Gervais is just one of those redpilled comedians who complain about being canceled all the time now. So I take most of what he says with a grain of salt, especially about this kind of stuff.
I think The Office being a case study in how we conceptualise bullying, bullies, and the relationship between the two, bears real scrutiny. This is because Ricky Gervais has aspired to be a bully his whole life, but also craves approval, so he only acts as a bully when he thinks it is 'okay' to do so. This may be him making a series of crude, demeaning and sexist insults to a whole room, which he thinks is okay because it is the golden globes and it is just puncturing egos. He flaunts his education and sneers at those who do not have it all the time, as seen in any interaction he has with Karl Pilkington. He sets up Karl to go on a roadtrip with Warwick Davies, knowing Karl is curious but also often socially and insensitive, and arranges it so they happen to pass by a bunch of attractions and locales that exploit or marginalise those with dwarfism, so he can get hilarious content out of the inevitable animosity.
People sometimes look at David Brent as an act of modesty on Gervais part, a self-depreciating element of his own worst aspects, but I now view it as something more sinister. He wants people to believe he is Brent, so they don't realise he is actually Finch.
I've always read him as the opposite. Watch Gervais closely and he'll only bully when he's feeling bad or thinks his ego is being threatened. I think it's a defensive compulsion rather than his norm.
I'm reminded of how William Shatner will often play arrogant blowhards, while actually being an arrogant blowhard in real life.
Incredible comment.
@@Crispman_777 Given the infamous size of his ego and how fragile it is, defensive compulsion to be a bully is the norm for Gervais.
@@godofpencils01"Norm" being neutral, calm state here, not average state.
This was my favorite series of all time when it first came out and I’ve had trouble figuring out my relationship with it and Ricky Gervais in the 20+n years since it’s aired. Thanks for putting such thoughtful words to it. I always enjoy your work.
same... i watched it in the US, just found it in a video store my junior year of college, when virtually nobody here had seen it, and I didn't know wtf I was watching at first, it was such a sea change from anything that had come before it, at least that i'd seen. and by the 3rd episode i was so enthralled. i mean a friend and i binged it the first day we watched it.
and i liked some of his earlier specials well enough, tho having gone back and listened to some of them, or should i say tried to, they've aged incredibly poorly.
haven't watched this yet but i think it was a groundbreaking series and sad as Gervais has become he's still capable of making affecting and original TV, it just happens one or 2 episodes over the span of a show.
i'll at least owe to this my exploration of 90s and 00s Britcoms... from Darkplace to Nathan Barley to Snuff Box to the Day Today/Brass Eye to Mitchell & Webb, Boosh, i could go on... what an amazingly fecund time for such a small nation, industry (& budgets afforded)
Much appreciated!
Same with me and Extras. He (Ricky) almost seemed to realise what sort of person he had the potential to be... and then ended up being it.
R.I.P Ewen MacIntosh
José i LOVE your retrospectives. It's cozy to experience a sitcom in its abridged entirety, while also having insight into the production, and your commentary addressing the underlying culture of the time it came out (that would otherwise be offputting to me trying to watch a series like this on my own).❤
2 things:
- For non-Brits, Quality Street is a long existing brand of cheap assorted chocolate boxes/tins, hence Equality Street.
- David Brent IS Ricky Gervais. If you watch enough of Gervais, you can see that he embodies much of Brent in intermittent bursts (the same symptom that I believe compels his more distasteful jabs). He's a failed pop singer, so turned to radio before stumbling into TV. He's chased fame the same way Brent has, albeit with some actual talent and success, all for the promise of recognition. This is made strikingly obvious in conversations he's had with his perceived heroes (see Talking Funny). The real difference between Brent and Gervais is that when his demons aren't controlling him, Gervais is secretly and silently very aware of them and their detrimental effect on him and those around him. This is why he can write and perform Brent so well along with other shows like Extras and After Life.
We have Quality Street in Canada. And boy oh boy, they aren't "cheap" here lol. Grossly overpriced and marketed as a "staple" of Christmases here. Not sure what a 600-750g tin goes for in the UK, but we'll get charged $16-$22 Canadian buying it at the grocery store or drug store in stock, not even "imported". And that isn't "inflation" related, been that way for at least a decade now.
@@maxmoore3204 Just looked. A 813g tin from a upper-mid range supermarket is £8.40. Your prices are CRAZY!
You would probably get a 600g tub at Christmas here for ~£5, in fact there on offer right now in my local store for £3.75
@@s4shade64 813g tin for £8.50 at Ocado. I did write this already but apparently YT didn't like it?
@@s4shade64 Hmm... the mysterious self deleting reply. I'll try again: £8.50 for 800g here in the UK.
49:05 one note here is that it is very common in British Sitcoms for the main character to lose and for weighty dramatic scenes. Yes compared to US sitcoms, as you said it's unsual. However for a british one it's pretty normal, that isn't to say it was less impactful, just pretty standard. I.e. Only Fools and Horses the most popular british sitcom of all time, had an episode about the funeral for one of the main characters who had also died in real life, in fact the show did that not once but twice. It is hilarious yet puts a lump in your throat and moves you to tears, with a focus on how individuals go through the grieving process. The show also had 3, 1 hr and half long chrsitmas specials in which the first Rodney and his Wife Cassandra get pregnant, in the second they are all excited to have a baby, until the end where she has a miscarriage (played seriously) keep in mind this is a christmas special. In the third it explores coming to terms with loss. All very serious and at the same time hilarious, somehow even from just one line to the next you go from crying to laughing. And that is a family friendly british sitcom watched by a third to a half of the British public at the time. And if you point that out to a British person they wouldn't have even thought that was unusal.
What I’ve always preferred that about the way British sitcoms deal with serious and sad storylines. They just let them speak for themselves. I’ve always hated that US comedies tend to use them for moralising.
@@loadishstone same although I understand that he would be unfamiliar with British TV
Couldn't agree more, John Sullivan was a better, smarter, kinder, and vastly more talented person than RG could ever dream of being. Now to find a good Only Fools retrospective... And hey, if you like to hatewatch terrible adaptions as I sometimes do, go find "The King of Van Nuys" and be equal parts alarmed/deeply confused.
John Sullivan was great at pulling at the heart strings on Only Fools. So many moments that make me well up.
But Jose’s comments still stand, because here it was not delivered in such a subtle and emotional way (btw i still remember crying about it as a kid)
I grew up in Teddington where The Office was shot. The studio has been bulldozed now and rebuilt as luxury riverside flats. So much stuff was filmed there that even after ten years it’s still hard to believe that it’s actually gone.
Wow, reminds me of philosophy tubes new video
@@TheN00bmonster what’s the video about?
@@itsMrNoble How towns go through this revitalisation an rebranding to become more 'modern' but doing so they remove buildings that are key to their identity. Slough is doing this at the moment (though its put on hold since they've gone bankrupt) and a lot of old buildings and pubs that have been there for decades have been wiped. Highly recommend watching the vid!
You came very close to making a point about Gervais himself that I think of every time I see him. He "pretended" to be "David Brent" but, just like David Brent, he didn't really get the joke he was making. Every project he does reveals more of his bullying tendency and less of his humanity. The Office (UK) is still my favorite Office, but Steve Carrell as Michael Scott is a much better performance, simply because SC has genuine empathy and curiosity for the characters he portrays. His Michael Scott performance is funnier, more painful, and more realistic than RG's David Brent because he isn't doing an ironic impression of a smarmy boss; he's embodying the state of desperation for validation that many of us have felt in some part of our lives 😭
I heard an interview with Steve Carrell where he said Gervais had told him something like "Everyone knows someone like David Brent, and if you don't know one you are them." I've always felt like that was a bit of a self-report
It really baffles me the amount of people who have never once thought that maybe the guy who is always cast to play/is so good at playing a smarmy, cruel, self-absorbed prick might actually just be a smarmy, cruel, self-absorbed prick.
Lol this is such bullshit. Dumb people have been making this lame pseudo-observation since the show aired. Gervais was very funny and self aware at the time. This feeling that some people had about Gervais seems more true now because he's so shit and cringe. But it's not.
So, to oversimplify it, Steve has the better performance because he actually is performing, whereas Ricky just clocked in that day
i was about to comment that gervais is just david brent but 2 or 3 iq points smarter
Baby wake up another José retrospective just dropped.
Some of my favorite content on the platform. The one he did on dinosaurs was especially cool because I had no idea how interesting and subversive that show was. But he had a bunch of other great ones too from Frasier, Cheers to the fresh Prince, The Golden girls
Jordan Peele, when transitioning to horror writing, made a a statement in an interview about how horror and comedy really aren’t that different. I didn’t really understand what he meant, until you made the roller coaster analogy. Cringe comedy is painful in real life, just like being in actual danger is literally horrifying. But the power of media is that you get to experience this while knowing that you are actually emotionally (or physically) safe.
Great observation, I think that’s also why horror-comedies work so well: if you have the brain for one, you can have the brain for the other. And they go together like peanut butter and jelly.
@@DeadCanuck Gallows humor persists for a reason.
It's funny That Ricky has turned into David Brent
Literally.
It makes me sad honestly I was such a fan of a lot of his stuff growing up but he’s just cringe now
I think he always was. I saw him in those old Channel 4 countdowns and he kept making the most childish observations. (E.g. Going on about how the Shake 'n' Vac lady was 'definitely a dirty woman')
100%. Or Andy Millman before the resolution.
Revealed to be. not became
Fantastic work as always! Would love to see you cover more British sitcoms. I'm absolutely crying out for a Blackadder or Peep Show retrospective now 🤞
With all due respect to Americans, I'm so SO glad the US pilot of Peep Show was never picked up.
Yes do Blackaddder (if you dare). Some great actors with ridiculous plots!) Hugh Laurie is in there.
@@DanKeatisNothing would ever match the surreal energy of the alternate universe where the American pilot of IT Crowd caught on, with Joel McHale as Roy and Richard Ayoade still playing Moss.
@@leowilliamson1573 I had no idea that was a thing. They do seem to like Ayoade over there. I remember he was in The Mandalorian of all things
@@DanKeatis Yeah, Ayoade has a funny habit of popping up in random places. He also directed an episode of Community
Looking at this and thinking of some of Gervais more recent comments/humor I feel like his character may have been fundamentally more honest to himself than he may have known
Gervais says a show like "The Office" (UK) couldn't get made today. Meanwhile: "Broad City" aired recently; "Veep" ran until 2019; "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia" and "South Park" are *_still running._*
Not to mention, plenty of similarly "offensive" (in the way Gervais means) comedians are still getting paid millions of dollars to produce stand up specials: Chappelle, Roseanne Barr, Rob Schneider, hell, *_Gervais himself._* Rich celebrities *_do not get "cancelled"!_* They get *_criticised,_* possibly dropped from a gig or two, and then just make the pivot to more right-wing-friendly material and rake in the dough.
personally I think when older comedians say their work couldn't get made today they're revealing their own thin skinned nature and inability to deal with backlash on a more personal level
@@redactedredacted6656 100% Agree. Comedians can still make all the offensive jokes they want, they're just a lot more likely to be aware of the criticism directed at them for homophobia, sexism, racism, etc... due to social media these days.
Sorry but you can't compare American TV shows shown on private TV networks to British public broadcasting.
Not saying your point about it running now is wrong but the examples you have used don't actually add anything to your point because you aren't talking about the same countries let alone companies.
@@maxb148 Yeah, the Beeb is a state owned public broadcaster funded by public money, so it has more restrictions than private companies like Channel 4 and is more subject to the beliefs of the general public. The BBC also will never run any programme that even vaguely critcises the utter embarrassment that is our royal family. *_Believe_* me, I am fully on board with hating on the BBC's restrictive broadcasting guidelines.
However, the fact still remains that Gervais loves saying dumb shit like "The world's gone woke, you could never make it these days", and that is patently ridiculous.
@@LoganBluthGenuinely curious how you think any of the programs you mentioned are anything like the office? The mean streak in the office is pretty much gone from television. South Park comes the closest but it’s a cartoon and at no point does it feel as mean.
Always sunny especially only mocks the main characters it doesn’t have any particularly cruel elements.
nooooooo you've illegally stepped into our British world
No land is safe. As long as their sitcoms are in English.
@@JoseBird👀🇦🇺
huh, a Brit complaining about other people trespassing. i guess that's progress.
@@blacxthornE Somebody hasn't been watching British news for the past 100 years!
Don't step too far, there's very little good to see here right now.
Fantastic video - the office is one of my favourite series of all time.
I think you missed the mark on the section about Tim making Gareth say “gay” stuff. I don’t agree that there is an implication that Gareth struggling with being homosexual, he’s only ever shown as interested in women, and is horrified by the proposal of a threesome with a woman and her husband. Gareth is repeatedly shown to be homophobic, and that’s why Tim finds it funny to make Gareth “appear” as saying “gay” things. I agree the kiss was crossing a line, but his teasing is not rooted in trying to make Gareth confront his inner homosexuality, it’s rooted in making Gareth speak/act in conflict with his overt homophobia.
I don't disagree with you, but I felt the need to respond to this:
"he’s only ever shown as interested in women, and is horrified by the proposal of a threesome with a woman and her husband"
This is actually a trope in and of itself, the overcompensating "straight guy" who turns out to be gay. The guy who acts so repulsed by the idea of two men grazing skin with each other because they're trying to throw other people off the trail, so to speak. I think this is the difference in reading between you and Jose.
I just wanted to mention how much I appreciate your videos, the professional tone stands out on this platform and makes me feel like I’m watching a documentary.
Loving this video, your retrospectives are always the best :) would love to see a video about peep show since you're branching into UK sitcoms
It’s just so solid, front to back. As much as I love the US Office, warts and all, I’m glad we have the UK Office as a complete artistic statement.
Funny, that description of Slough really fits the entire Northeast Pennsylvania area, especially the stretch from Allentown, through Stroudsburg and the Poconos, and all the way up to, you guessed it: Scranton.
It's not quite New York. It's not quite Philly. Hell, it doesn't even have a beach like the Jersey towns.
It's just a place. Not a place to be. Just. A place.
That's what I was thinking with Scranton in the US version. Any time a character has to go to a major city on the show, it's usually either Philly or New York
That’s the first time I’ve ever seen anyone mention Stroudsburg in any context, and I grew up there
Really from Harrisburg to Scranton, quite frankly.
Crazy almost like it was intentional decision by the producers
Billy Joel wrote a whole song about just how shit the area is way back in the 80's
I think you missed the mark on Tim’s “antagonism of Gareth’s sexuality.” Tim’s point is not to mock Gareth for being closeted but to mock his homophobia.
Being homophobic and closeted are not mutually exclusive
Exactly
@@guybarritt8632 Being homophobic and making fun of people more homophobic than you is also not mutually exclusive. I knew plenty of guys who were quite clearly homophobic who thought they could get away with it because they made fun of people who were more blatant about it (i.e. directly using slurs rather than making veiled jokes).
I've always found the "let's make fun of the homophobic guy by pretending he's gay" to be homophobic in itself, presenting being gay as some sort of shameful thing. Obviously the intention is to make fun of how ridiculous that position is but it can come across that way and it's something I saw growing up.
Quick notes: Lucy Davis' father is Jasper Carrott, a huge uk stand up comic.
The theme tune Handbags and Gladrags may have been arranged by Big George, but mention should be made of vocalist Fin Muir, a heavy metal singer best known for his tenure in Waysted.
I just love the original Office version. I find it weridly sad.
It’s quite typical of British humour really. American humour tend to turn that sadness into moralising. British humour just lets it hang there to speak for itself.
@@jaybee4118always admired that abt Brits😂 they give zero fxcks abt ur happiness it is what it is
Even the weather don't fxck around 😂
The American Office is a more optimistic and idealised vision of working life than the UK version. Even if the job is boring, there is an ensemble of zany personalities around so that no two days are ever the same.
The UK version is a slightly exaggerated reflection of the pessimistic outlook Brits have towards work.
"Over time, the British version has faded from people's minds in a way the American one hasn't".
Brent voice: "In your country, maybe..."
It's fair to have nostalgia.
And it isn’t the British version - it’s the original one
@@Fank234 yeah you can definitely tell this guy watched the American version first before he watched the British one. Guys softer than a piece of tissue paper with all the “bullying” talk lol.
What always gets overlooked is that Neil Godwin, the popular, funny and professional area manager, Brent's nemesis - is a far worse character. He laughs and joins in with Finch's jokes, including when Finch refers to Carol as a dog. Brent contantly gets in trouble for making inappropriate and arguably offensive jokes, yet both Finch and Neil seem to get a pass. Much as I am a fan of The Office, the fact that that gets ignored always irks me.
this was really great! i appreciate you leaving the U.S version out for the most part - most i see about the original is how it compares to the one we all know but this gave me a completely new perspective that makes me want to watch it as it's own thing
American Office is dumbed down garbage
"the one we all know"
Speak for yourself.
@@wintermute8315get off your high horse
The Christmas special gives Brent a certain amount of redemption. Towards the end, we see him almost butting in for the attention of Chris Finch from Neil (who shows something of an unpleasant side to himself), yet when he finally dismisses him, he's no longer "Finchy", but just plain "Chris". A relatively minor indication that he is finally getting a grip flashes up for a few seconds when we him actually dancing "normally"
While I've always liked your retrospectives, it's been difficult to fully appreciate them since most of the sitcoms I love are British (due in no small part to being a Brit myself!). The Office was the first sitcom that really made me fall in love with the medium when I first saw it with my parents when I was about 14, you've really done it justice by talking about what makes it so special - I really need to re-watch the full series at some point and I'll have to check out that Ben Walters book. A tragic irony that Gervais these days has lost a lot of the self-awareness that makes Brent work as a character.
I think Tim’s bullying and homophobia is crucial to the show. For one thing it was completely common for his type of person at the time, and it makes his character realistic. But also, yes, we are meant to feel sorry for Gareth and see the small mindedness of Tim who takes his anger at his whole life out on Gareth. The office is making him cruel, he’s not exempt just because he isn’t as bone-headed as Brent or Gareth. The show would lose its essence (become more American) if Tim was a heightened perfectly moral leading man
Great doc, but Gareth and theories of being gay I don’t agree with. The attempt to get Gareth to say ‘gay’ things was Gareth being homophobic. I never once thought they thought he was gay, more wanting to make him say things he wouldn’t say.
Later when Gareth’s girlfriend rang him, there was no shock or surprise.
Totally agree. There seems to be a misconception that homophobic people are gay. Sure, plenty of LGBT people have talked about dealing with internalized homophobia, but some people are just bigoted jerks. I’ve noticed that a lot of vocal homophobes here in the US turn out to be pedophiles or predatory ( making unwanted advances at someone of the opposite sex and not respecting boundaries in general). (Ie Catholic Priests, the Duggars, “family values” politicians, Mega Church pastors, edge lords, etc.
Yeah I think a lot of people mistake the target of the joke in Gervais's comedy, including the creator of this video ... but then again getting Americans to understand the nuance of British comedy is often a tough ask.
This is an incredibly well researched and fantastically written video. Every sentence is so clear and easy to follow but says so much. Great job fr
Hearing "the Archers" mentioned in this video is both very fun and strangely surreal in a way I can't quite describe lmao.
Same with Goodness Gracious Me - hearing that show from someone with an american accemt feels like a rip in spacetime
@@ScouseJazmin it was also funny when Jose showed the clip of David Brent quoting "Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em" and it was clear he didn't get the reference.
Honestly tho, it's probably for the best no one outside the UK knows what Michael Crawford did before "Phantom of the Opera". Lol.
It's weird to think the Ricky (Oliver Chris) and Ryan (BJ Novak) are technically the same person, they are so different.
I wish you could cover Alan Partridge. I still think he's one of the funniest characters ever invented. He did that one show with two seasons. That one was brilliant. I heard some of his From the Oasthouse podcast and it is freaking fantastic. UK tv is some of the best TV out there
It would be hard to do that without also diving into On The Hour, The Day Today and Brass Eye (which I would love to see covered too), since On The Hour and The Day Today are obviously where the character originates, and you can't really cover those two without covering Brass Eye.
It's testament to the genius of Steve Coogan and Armando Iannucci that Alan Partridge is still with us, thirty years on. That's a decade longer than Only Fools and Horses. And Partridge hasn't remained static, instead he's developed over the years, making him one of the most complex fictional characters seen on screen. He's surely the greatest clown ever invented, and that's coming from someone who grew up with Fawlty Towers.
Stephen Merchant was a guest on the British radio show Desert Island Discs last year and he shared a very funny anecdote about how when negotiating with the BBC, he said something to the effect of "we could be the next Orson Welles" and someone at the BBC responded like "yeah but you might not be", and apparently it never occurred to them they might not be the next Orson Welles.
I don't know if I have a point sharing this, I just thought it was funny lol.
Really enjoyed this, great video. I don't think Brent is a bully per say, more that he is so dependent on the approval of those around him and weak from it that he abandons all sense of self-restraint and censorship. For me, the most uncomfortable moment in the show is the Comic Relief episode where a humiliated colleague gets stripped despite his protestations - Brent goes along with it as it's all about fitting in.
I hope you cover Spaced, another uk comedy that was a huge hit
Man, Ricky has changed so much he's become the very joke he used to make. Merchant is thankfully still down to earth.
Enjoying this video is as close to liking either version of The Office as Im ever going to get
If you're doing British sitcoms now you should do peepshow. I love peep show
I’ve tried to watch the American office and since I’d only seen the British one I just don’t understand the American one at all, it’s just actual jokes instead of melancholic gallows humour
I see the US version more as a comedy-drama done in the style of a sitcom. It's entertaining and engaging but the jokes and funny bits seem to be secondary to the storylines.
@@Lenntill19 yeah it seemed story heavy and just much lighter hearted in general tone, almost no bleakness with a lot of happy endings, the humour felt silly rather than cringe or depressing and bleak
@@phrakture8888 Yeah it took a while - especially with the change from the first season to the 2nd - to get used to a much more upbeat show. I missed the cynicism and, as you say, bleakness.
It's comfy cozy viewing. Happy endings and people learning things and all that... remonds me of how the movie "The Descent " had to change its sad ending to a happy one for the US version. The audience's comfort takes precedence over artistic intent. I'm not American or British but I prefer The Office UK. The faux doc fits better with that tone. Sometimes in the us version it becomes unbelievable that it's a doc and feels so scripted that renders the doc aspect obsolete. I still love American sitcoms like 30 Rock and the Grinder (a very underappreciqted show) and Lady Dynamite and have nothing against sentimentality but office us feels too meandering and comft and ultimately void of any significance or substance.
@@steamedhamlet yes I agree with this, I am British and often enjoy the American take on things, including happy endings, but in my opinion something was lost in the translation of the office, basically everything honestly. Not to disparage the great cast of the US office but the “idea” behind the UK one just isn’t there in the US show and I feel so many people, mostly Americans, have no idea what they missed out on
Ricky Gervais convincingly plays a person who desperately WANTS to be funny, but is really just a middle manager. I wonder why….
Hmmmm. Whyyyy . Hmmm
To be fair plenty of people find Gervais funny, comedy is so subjective you don't really have a right to call someone unfunny. Especially when the person you are calling not funny is an extremely successful comedian.
@@harleyokeefe5193 Check the comment again, I didn’t state that he is objectively unfunny. You can disagree and enjoy your comedian all you want, and I very much have the RIGHT to make a joke at the expense of some loser who doesn’t know what shirts fit him and who thinks that saying god isn’t real is a punchline.
@@levi1929 He isn't my comedian and I never said you don't have the right to make a joke. My point was simply that calling comedians unfunny is a pointless statement as a LOT of people do find him funny.
@@harleyokeefe5193 What you said is that I don’t have the right to call him unfunny.
a) Yes, I do
b) I didn’t say that
c) If all it takes is a large audience, then Jeff Dunham is the funniest comedian of all time.
If he’s not “your comedian” then why are you trying to argue with someone who says he sucks? You’re not even stating your opinion, you’re just trying to silence mine. And then you have the nerve to tell me that MY comment is pointless. Wtf?
José, your sitcom retrospective videos are always top notch man. i really love your work.
Please consider doing spin city.
love you bro.
Jose continuing to be one of the best creators on youtube, always a delightful and informative watch
A small point I'd like to add (as someone who's watched the series through more times than I count) is how "low effort" all the shots, scenes and scripts look but behind the scenes you see how much effort when in to it. Gervais and Merchant would literally place people down to the inch on where they should stand and do 20 takes for a 2 sentence cutaway which they would then rewrite and edit out anyway. The whole show is the saying "looking effortless takes a lot of effort". They put a crazy amount of effort into it and its a testament to what effort and 2 funny blokes can pull off. They reshaped an entire industry, created a whole new category of TV and launched the most successfully international re-adapted show ever.
Amazing video and brilliant analysis. Thank you sincerely
Gone but never forgotten. Fly high Keith.
He deserved better 😢
Was it the eczema
Booyakasha. 😢
Well that's a bit of old news by now, isn't it?
Not for me, hadn't seen it.
I think il watch peak practice in mourning 😢
While I'm glad you talk about this show, because I think it's managed to form some incredible sitcoms off the back of it (such as Parks and Rec). But I'm also glad you mention Ricky's actions because it also reflects very well on him in this show. A few people made some comments about this but I feel like Ricky's actions are overshadowed by his humour - which is more like Finch's rather than Brent's.
Well done, great essay, thoughtfully put together and very well edited, thank you.
In case you haven't seen the Mackenzie Crook sitcom Detectorists, do yourself a favour and look it up. It might not be for everyone, but it's gentle and funny and lovely. An absolute gem.
Great video!
This was a very in-depth, well-researched video. Well done. Thank you!
So nice to see José be able to watch something enjoyable again.
In that spirit, I'd be fascinated to see José cover the life work of Michael Apted, The Up Series documentarian, who started filming a group of British children drawn from varying classes + backgrounds at 7yo then every 7 years he'd film the same children. They did it for decades & you'd see the class differences-outcomes over time. I'd be interested in hearing José explore that series.
David Brent and Gareth made me laugh very, very hard. The central story is Tim and Dawn, and I thought it was shattering. Never expected the level of realism, tenderness, and emotion. Blended with the comedy, the tragedy made my head spin. A wonderful view into UK culture, and sensibilities.
Never seen this show but whenever Jose posts I watch it
What a lovely video. I hadn't been with these characters for a very long time and it was nice to relive, and to be shown new depths I wasn't able to comprehend back when I last watched it
37:00 this is British banter circa 2001/2. Doesn’t make it right but was so common in this era. It’s not meant to be taken seriously.
i was waiting for an analysis this was very insightful thank you
I would love for you to do a deep dive on MASH one of these days.
Great job mate, very well made and enjoyable analysis.
Excellent video, inspired me to go back and rewatch it. I last saw the show maybe 15 years ago! Out of interest Jose, have you ever seen Peep Show? I feel like it would make for an interesting deep dive of a similar vein.
Aw man. I just now noticed how much Carl Pilkington looks like Dim Tool. I'll never unsee that.
Please consider Moral Orel- would love to see an analysis of that series as it was so prophetic in terms of where we are today. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 bonus: the whole series is only 4-5 hours in total and available on YT.
Also- completely agree that the original version was better than the US version (comparing the first two seasons) but the US version evolved into something completely different as it went on. I think I was so annoyed with the US one at first because the first few episodes were almost a carbon copy of the original. Sucks that Gervais is someone I find incredibly irritating now bc I loved Extras and his stand-up when he used to talk about fun animal facts. His current material is whiny and boring at best, and cruel at worst. So bizarre to me that wealthy entertainers can show so much resentment towards the very people whose attention made them wealthy because THEY became people who the audience is no longer interested in… it’s not our fault you can’t hold our attention any longer and being hostile while complaining about ‘cancel culture’ (on a huge platform) might be hilarious- it’s the only funny thing you’ve done in years. Oh well. Shame.
😊 I didn't know they were influenced heavily by this is spinal tap but it makes sense. Maybe my favorite comedy movie ever. Maybe my favorite movie ever.
That was beautiful! so well done❤️
The Outlaws was great, wasn't it? And how about Martin Freeman? The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, The Responder, The Cornetto Trilogy, Fargo...I love that guy! Detectorists is great too, it has Toby Jones and everything. I still listen to that Johnny Flynn song regularly. Has anyone else ever seen Crusade in Jeans?
P.S. I'm not crazy (-er than anyone else). I wanted to leave a comment for the algorithm gods, so I just wrote down some random, ADD-fueled thoughts that popped into my head while watching as I actually have nothing to say about The Office. I've never found myself able to sit through an entire episode of it. Don't know why. Sure, it could be Gervais but then again, I've never liked the U.S. version either.
@@ItcouldbebunniesLOL that’s why they felt like they came from my brain😂 All praise the algo!
I found 'Breeders' to be decent too, a dramedy show with Freeman.
He really blew up, rightfully so
Yes, a well deserved mention of Detectorists, I am not from the UK, but that show is damn impressive and funny as hell
The term 'underrated' is bandied around too much on the internet these days, but that's exactly how I would describe The Detectorists. It's a little masterpiece.
Have you done a retrospective on The Wonder years? I have been rewatching that for the first time since I was a kid then it's pretty goddamn amazing
100%
Growing up watching the Office: have to confess I found it somewhat depressing and I did secretly want there to episode where there was a revolution and they overthrew the system
I just love how much Merchant razzles Gervais in those interviews
My mother couldn't watch The Office. Not because she thought it was bad, but because she had previously had a coworker who was so like David Brent, it was borderline painful to watch the character. And fwiw, as a Brit, I'd love to see you tackle British sitcoms more often!
I was waiting for this vid and take for so long ,my all time fav show hmm maybe on same lvl as Peep show and IT crowd.
ricky went a whole 10 mins without talking about how he doesn't like religion, he probably had an aneurysm
More power to his elbow, when you consider the devastation caused throughout the entire world due to religion.
Ricky Gervais has a gift for brining out the pathos of his characters.... he's also slowly becoming David Brent.
I know it's cool to criticise Gervais or whatever, but he's nothing like Brent if you actually think about it.
David Brent did me a big favor: after watching The Office, I extirpated every management practice I shared with him I could.
I would note that the XFM series alongside this era is legendary..
In The office (and other comedies), Gervais is really telling on himself. He played a person who wanted everyone to like him but who bullied others and had no self-awareness whatsoever. It's crazy how Gervais purposefully made a character without self-awareness, while being completely unaware of his own bad behaviour. Today, he lashes out at critics because his ego got hurt and because his need to be loved was denied. It's never his fault, it's always the "woke SJWs" ...
I liked his humour and enjoyed some of his works a lot. But the way he turned out today is just off putting. Like so many others, he replaced his comedy with stupid rants.
I think the character he played initially was a over the top mockery of himself initially when he had more humility as a comic starting out. Then years of being typecast, getting older, getting more ego that over the top character slowly became more and more related to who he is. As you can see with the older interviews and stuff he def was more of a normal down to earth person with a deep understanding of comedy. Now he just tells tired lazy jokes that are purely just attention seeking.
from the interviews at the time (DVD extras etc), Gervis seemed to think Brent was relatable and likeable. no, he was a horrible abusive boss who made life hell for his colleagues
@@RoamingAdhocrat
Never underestimate how full of himself Gervais is.
POLITICAL DISSIDENT ALERT.
Nothing changed. What happened is you became and butt of about 10% of his jokes, and you don’t like it, because like the rest of you, you’re a spoiled narcisstic child who takes yourself too seriously.
He lampooned Hollywood, he’s done a lot of things. The moment it got to your politics, he’s a bad, bad man.
You people are the definition of fanatical zealots.
Ooh you’re hard
GREAT WORK! Thank you.
Whenever someone says that the office couldn't exist today, you know exactly where they fall on every single social issue.
It couldn’t exist in the way it did today. On RUclips it could, but actively cruel and degrading humour that doesn’t mock the characters making the cruel jokes is gone.
The same way you don’t get comedians making jokes about Koreans eating dogs on tv today but if you turned on the telly in the 80’s it was a common joke. Some things do become socially passé over time.
Idk how you can say this when there has been a shockingly low amount of any comedy being released nowadays. TV heads and movie producers don't want to risk it - something like the office *wouldn't* be made today, and that is a fact.
its just so fucking funny to me how often descriptions of David Brent fit perfectly onto Ricky Gervais. even descriptions *from* Gervais sound like he's accidentally describing himself. its insane
I've always though Gervais was a prick but I can't help but admire how fearless this show was. It wrestles with some heavy themes and things don't go well for everyone.
Absolutely fantastic video Jose - detailed and insightful. Thank you!
You are such an excellent excellent creator man. Bravo 👏🏼
fantastic in-depth critique
Nice to see Jay's dad from the inbetweeners pop up in a Jose video
You're very good at this Jose
Great. Another hour+ Jose video that I'll have to watch every 2-3 months for the rest of my life...
Insane to hear my hometown talked about by José
Small consolation for having to live there lol.
The UK office is an incredibly rare work of genius. A generational magnum opus. Lightning in a bottle. I'm a welder by trade and I'm sure I couldn't make one of the greatest comedy works of all...actually I could do what Steve and Ricky did, and I think they knew that even back then. Probably what spurred 'em on.
Pity about Ricky Jervais.
One of the UK comedies that kind of prepared me for The Office's naturalism was the Royle Family. It demanded an attention to very subtle details that weren't overtly comedic. Mainly things like glances, non-verbal reactions, long moments focused on a character's resting face in anticipation of something happening. It's a very patient kind of comedy that slowly builds the qualities of a character more intimately. I'd also reference the pilot to Curb Your Enthusiasm (1999 I think), which had a similar quality. Very naturalistic and unassuming in its delivery. Yet if you're patient enough with it, it is a reflection of the human condition that, while not laugh out loud every minute, delivers something much deeper in comedic terms.
Something was clearly happening around that time in terms of a shift in how we perceive comedy, both in the UK and US. I think it became more subtle and nuanced, with less reliance on a situational punchline followed by canned laughter.