Thanks for the intro into HTMX. I guess it is not hot topic for me now but really good to get what it is about. Next time (year) will find some short tutorial with code example to get in touch with it.
Max this sounds amazing. As a poor developer trying to make small companies/ideas I think putting as much logic/data on the client side (or static data) helps with costs (cost/performance) and I try to do it as much as possible although this is limited in many cases. However, I am very excited to learn this technology in your course when I have some extra time.
I like HTMX. I've been using it for over a year now for small projects and it's saved me a lot of hassle writing JS. However, my workplace is switching to React from (PHP) Smarty and Vanilla JS. I tried to promote HTMX to them, but since there will be quite a lot of UI that requires JS, this is why we are using React. And if we are going all in with React, I'm not sure if mixing the pot with HTML and HTMX is suitable, especially if there's a templating language involved in making the returning HTML.
HTMX is awesome, you don't need the bloat of the a JS framework, but you'll still need to write some JavaScript to make your UI more refined, but not as much as before,
The big question is how do HTMX projects scale? Angular has always been a joy to work with because it was so clearly structured, but now we're entering a feee for all again where we have to figure out how to build large projects and keep track of these templates that we're generating. So we'll see how this pans out
I would just like to add that React Server Components are quite similar to HTMX. But, instead of returning HTML, server components return JSX. Also, RSC content is not being sent across the wire as JSON. This is what Dan Abramov said: "we include initial RSC content inline into the HTML payload (chunked up into pieces so that we don’t block paint and so that they’re sent as they become available). this is needed both to provide the initial data to the client components, and to have non-destructive Back nav."
But yeah, it was Dan that also said RSCs work similar to HTMX. " rsc is htmx with components on both sides." I would post links but you can't on RUclips.
What percentage of the web-sites can be written in HTMX(+js when needed) and be as simple as React or more simple? 40% 60% 80% more? If i had to guess i would probably say 80% of websites can be made avoiding React without making the project too hard to write, but i dont know.
Thank you max ! with the discount it was instant buy for me on udemy :D. I always loved your courses, you are the best ! Just a question about tailwindCSS, will you do in the future a course on that topic ?
I have to use HTMX at work and hate it. HTMX is only good for very trivial UIs, try build slightly more modern UIs and see how quickly things turn into a spaghetti mess, but the biggest eye twitch is the amount of round trips to the server for every state change, query the database again, validate the request again, prepare all additional data again, render the template again and again - the problem HTMX tries to solve ultimately ends up creating more problems especially on medium-large applications.
It seems like you chose bad tech for your project. Highly interactive apps without data fetching aren't for HTMX. Additionally maybe your backend tech isn't good fit for project or isn't working well with HTMX. I don't know the details, but you cannot blame tech for being wrongly used. For me HTMX solves problem with state synchronization, but makes network traffic bigger, so highly interactive apps aren't good fit for it. You can mix some od your js with it. I didn't try, but I heard AlpineJS is a complementory soluction for interactivity for HTMX.
@@fsharplove What kind of rendering are you using? Cause making SSR or SSG is almost the same as HTMX. All of them involve asking server for some data to render. Additionally when your SPA application have spinners for loading data after the page is loaded is exactly what HTMX does under the hood, but in first case you have json and in second pure html being sent. This tech isn't that scary, if you know how and when to use it. If you need a lot of reactivity, which doesn't need anything from server HTMX isn't for you. But when you need just to fetch some data and dispay it and navigate through it, then HTMX is perfect for you.
@@Quxer0721 I started with pure WASM SPA AOT (plus a WEB API for data) before .NET 8 was released. Now, I am considering SSR + WASM AOT. I use a lot of CPU and don't want to rely heavy on network connection. I want to use the CPU of the client instead of some cloud services that will cost me a lot of money. I have never ever considered what is called today Interactive mode Server.
@@Quxer0721 I was using Blazor WASM AOT SPA with a minimal WEB API and SQLite for data. I was reluctant to use the new .NET8 stuff but now I plan to go to the route SSR + Blazor WASM AOT. The application I am building using a lot of CPU, and reactivity, I feel it's the best combo. I tend to prefer client side execution and avoid network dependencies. AOT is used for two purposes: enhance performance. Avoid code decompilation. But I have to test this (especially the AOT aspect) because for now I have released nothing, 😁. And you have Blazor MAUI as a bonus for "native" apps with better performance than WASM.😁😁
Well releasing course on HTMX is great but Max you also that technologies like these are never going to be use in industry level projects. Tech like HTMX, svelte are great for personal projects but not great when it comes to real world client projects, that's what I think, you guys may disagree with me, so I was thinking maybe you should re-record the Angular course as nowadays it's very in demand and also I wanted to learn it from yu just like I learned React and Node from you, but the outdated sections of the course is stopping me from buying it and starting learning Angular 2.
I learned VueJS from this guy years ago. Best decision I ever made.
You mean to tell me I don't need to have a 37000 package NextJS project for my static personal blog? I feel personally attacked and disturbed by this.
Thanks for the intro into HTMX. I guess it is not hot topic for me now but really good to get what it is about. Next time (year) will find some short tutorial with code example to get in touch with it.
Max one course is missing the Microservices course with Golang or Nodejs can't wait to see that. Thank you!
+1
Yup, and I feel like the go course is lacking some stuff and node course is kinda chaotic and not as simple as go.
Just my thought
Max this sounds amazing. As a poor developer trying to make small companies/ideas I think putting as much logic/data on the client side (or static data) helps with costs (cost/performance) and I try to do it as much as possible although this is limited in many cases. However, I am very excited to learn this technology in your course when I have some extra time.
I like HTMX. I've been using it for over a year now for small projects and it's saved me a lot of hassle writing JS. However, my workplace is switching to React from (PHP) Smarty and Vanilla JS. I tried to promote HTMX to them, but since there will be quite a lot of UI that requires JS, this is why we are using React. And if we are going all in with React, I'm not sure if mixing the pot with HTML and HTMX is suitable, especially if there's a templating language involved in making the returning HTML.
HTMX is a breath of fresh air in the world of web development. Great library. Everyone should try it.
Well said, I agree with your views and thank you! I am a backend PHP developer and have found that htmx allows me to use ajax super easy!
HTMX is awesome, you don't need the bloat of the a JS framework, but you'll still need to write some JavaScript to make your UI more refined, but not as much as before,
The big question is how do HTMX projects scale? Angular has always been a joy to work with because it was so clearly structured, but now we're entering a feee for all again where we have to figure out how to build large projects and keep track of these templates that we're generating. So we'll see how this pans out
I would just like to add that React Server Components are quite similar to HTMX. But, instead of returning HTML, server components return JSX. Also, RSC content is not being sent across the wire as JSON. This is what Dan Abramov said: "we include initial RSC content inline into the HTML payload (chunked up into pieces so that we don’t block paint and so that they’re sent as they become available). this is needed both to provide the initial data to the client components, and to have non-destructive Back nav."
But yeah, it was Dan that also said RSCs work similar to HTMX.
" rsc is htmx with components on both sides."
I would post links but you can't on RUclips.
what do you think about the fasthtml project, where htmx is used?
What percentage of the web-sites can be written in HTMX(+js when needed) and be as simple as React or more simple? 40% 60% 80% more?
If i had to guess i would probably say 80% of websites can be made avoiding React without making the project too hard to write, but i dont know.
React is OVER used
I would say 90% of react sites could be migrated to HTMX. And with that simplify code bases by a ton. Amazing technology.
HTMX is excellent.
Thank you max ! with the discount it was instant buy for me on udemy :D. I always loved your courses, you are the best !
Just a question about tailwindCSS, will you do in the future a course on that topic ?
Would HTMX cost more in terms of servers? Since you're sending the whole HTML code with the data.
No, most servers probably have compression turned on, such as gzip,, making any difference negligible
You have to send HTML no matter what
@@technolung You can send JSON, there is nothing stopping you from doing that.
Great, thanks! Btw, how about Astro? Are you also considering creating a course on this piece of technology as well? :)
Im freaking out internally because the light tiles on the wall dont align with the separation of grey and white paint.
I'm sorry - once I got a bit more time (don't know when that will be the case though....) I do plan to improve the video background.
@@maximilian-schwarzmueller all good my friend. Just joking around. Great video btw, thank you.
Awesome Max!
is coupon are not valid anymore?
Hey max , can you teach microservices using golang
Hey max love have an Microservice course with node
A course on Apache Kafka using Golang as microservices architecture, would be amazing!
Hype
Learn 1 first
I have to use HTMX at work and hate it. HTMX is only good for very trivial UIs, try build slightly more modern UIs and see how quickly things turn into a spaghetti mess, but the biggest eye twitch is the amount of round trips to the server for every state change, query the database again, validate the request again, prepare all additional data again, render the template again and again - the problem HTMX tries to solve ultimately ends up creating more problems especially on medium-large applications.
It seems like you chose bad tech for your project. Highly interactive apps without data fetching aren't for HTMX. Additionally maybe your backend tech isn't good fit for project or isn't working well with HTMX. I don't know the details, but you cannot blame tech for being wrongly used. For me HTMX solves problem with state synchronization, but makes network traffic bigger, so highly interactive apps aren't good fit for it. You can mix some od your js with it. I didn't try, but I heard AlpineJS is a complementory soluction for interactivity for HTMX.
The keywords in your comment "round trips to the server". And almost nobody speak about it. It makes this tech not a viable solution for me.
@@fsharplove What kind of rendering are you using? Cause making SSR or SSG is almost the same as HTMX. All of them involve asking server for some data to render.
Additionally when your SPA application have spinners for loading data after the page is loaded is exactly what HTMX does under the hood, but in first case you have json and in second pure html being sent.
This tech isn't that scary, if you know how and when to use it. If you need a lot of reactivity, which doesn't need anything from server HTMX isn't for you. But when you need just to fetch some data and dispay it and navigate through it, then HTMX is perfect for you.
@@Quxer0721 I started with pure WASM SPA AOT (plus a WEB API for data) before .NET 8 was released. Now, I am considering SSR + WASM AOT. I use a lot of CPU and don't want to rely heavy on network connection.
I want to use the CPU of the client instead of some cloud services that will cost me a lot of money.
I have never ever considered what is called today Interactive mode Server.
@@Quxer0721 I was using Blazor WASM AOT SPA with a minimal WEB API and SQLite for data. I was reluctant to use the new .NET8 stuff but now I plan to go to the route SSR + Blazor WASM AOT. The application I am building using a lot of CPU, and reactivity, I feel it's the best combo.
I tend to prefer client side execution and avoid network dependencies.
AOT is used for two purposes: enhance performance. Avoid code decompilation.
But I have to test this (especially the AOT aspect) because for now I have released nothing, 😁.
And you have Blazor MAUI as a bonus for "native" apps with better performance than WASM.😁😁
HTMX lost me at "backend supplies html".
Well releasing course on HTMX is great but Max you also that technologies like these are never going to be use in industry level projects. Tech like HTMX, svelte are great for personal projects but not great when it comes to real world client projects, that's what I think, you guys may disagree with me, so I was thinking maybe you should re-record the Angular course as nowadays it's very in demand and also I wanted to learn it from yu just like I learned React and Node from you, but the outdated sections of the course is stopping me from buying it and starting learning Angular 2.