Or take a flash image at various RPMs. The flash is super short, so the shutter speed won't really matter as long as it's not shorter than the camera's flash sync speed. Manual flashes lets you adjust the duration of the flash too for more or less light, so it won't be video, but you get to see how the angle is at least.
@@Alexandra-Rex nah, use a strobe and get it adjusted so the moving part stops moving to your eyes, then just video the whole process. Take photos from the video
I think most of us just want to see the best and most interesting fans. While it's valuable to limit submissions to let more people participate, if someone submits another deserving fan then we'd like to see it. The way you're already doing it seems right. I'd also be okay if designers got a second chance with a fan that needed design improvements, such as the multi-stage fan here.
My dad owns a 993 and I immediately noticed that the fan sounds so similar to the real thing. Although I don't think it sounds annoying at all at least in the car and in your recording but I could just be used to it :)
@@TimsVideoArchief exactly, and the fan noise when revving up mixed with engine is just pure pleasure for most car folks :) and you get noticed more :D but not when gaming ;)
@@Llohr Came here to say the same thing. Since the car fan is larger with larger holes on the front, which I'm sure help contribute to the unique sound, the pitch should be lower. The lower pitch should be far less annoying.
@@MajorHardware I am curious if the fans that are being tested are RPM throttled or if they are allowed to go full out? Basically wondering if any of the sub 48dBA fans running at less than 2k RPM could be pushed to 2K RPM and then what their sound profile would be as well as the FPM/CFM statistics. Seeing as how some of those fans still have quite a bit of RPM distance to gain on the Noctua if they would end up being better or worse than it or their current standings on the leader board.
@@dracconis69 they're running at 100% except fans like the the jet engine where if they're contacting any shroud he'll try to limit the speed so they're actually useful in testing. only limitation on rpm is the fan it's self(weight, drag, etc). think it was season 2 he tried limiting them to a specific db but to many people whined about it so he's just kept it at 100%.
@@sirmonkey1985 Basic fan controllers only let you adjust the percentage of the fan's own max speed, they don't take specific RPM goals. So for most people there is no realistic meaning to RPM-throttling, because that would be different percentage for each tested fan.
@@KimonFrousios it would be cool if he built a teststand that was configured to constant RPM. that would give new design requirements for a new season.
All impressive fans with good patterns. but the Angel just felt like it pulled air remarkably well, I always say if there's fog on the other side they probably didn't do well. while they all did well the Angel moved the air the furthest in my opinion and looked like an early winner.
Theres also the way how the smoke look almost linear on how they flow. Its not going up like the 993, and its not going down like the Variable. Just a straight vortex.
I feel like the essence of the show is showing off cool and efficient designs. If someone sends a second submission different than the previous one and also interesting enough to be feature, they definitely deserve to be featured.
Congrats Andy on nailing on your first try, I did expect a store attached to the design but anyway congrats, also i loved the jet engine one , i think had the blades been thicker and the shroud big enough to compensate for the deflection it would have been really cool.
the way i noticed i could see fan blades while they were spinning is with a bunch of light from flashlights/spotlights and having shutter speed set really low (even on a phone) with whatever ISO needed to compensate for light
I would say it's fine to allow a secondary or third submission from a person if they happen to make something so unique, that it's worth showing anyways despite them having already had a fan run in the season.
Awesome line up of fans, kudos to everyone! Great episode to, love your editing, always on point, always a few lols. Oh, IMO if someone submits more than one design worth testing, by all means test them!
Dang, I already felt like the eddies in the Angel exhaust were indicative of something, but seeing those results... it manages amazing numbers with less RPM than the Noctua. I actually was very much impressed!
Yes the fans in 911s do sound like that, the earlier ones with strait blades are even louder than swept blade variants, to be fair they are pretty quiet on idle, and at high rpm you can hear them but the engine does a pretty good job drowning the fan out, it's very noticeable when you get off the throttle though.
I think the next season should have rpm limitations to reach decibel criteria so like slowly increase rpm until it reaches a certain sound level then measure the airflow. We've done airflow so how about sound for the next season?
I'm fine with you using your discretion to show multiple fans from one designer. As long as they are innovative in some way or updated to resolve critical issues that could have major impacts to performance.
Yeah the 993 does sound like that, but only at high rpm and usually you move through that frequency as the berries have been dispensed to the engine. It’s an incredibly sonorous noise that comes from behind, its felt viscerally and for the most part gives a huge dopamine dump, but you 100% notice those bizarre and uncomfortable frequencies that are like fingers on a chalk board visceral.
Love the fan show down! Ever thought of remaking the Noctua and using that as a reference? A storebought vs a 3d printed fan might give a significant difference in results. This might be a better reference point as all others are printed as well.
I have a question or a thought. Have you tried printing the Noctua fan, just to see what the 3d print artifacts do to the performance? I feel like while the imperfections may cause a little extra drag we are not sure what a "Finalized" or casted blade would change. But with a 3D-printed version of the Noctua, we could try and calculate the differences. I know it's all just for fun but I think that would be a good bit of info to have. I also kinda feel like I am not the first person to say this, but I am too lazy to go through all the videos and comments.
I think if someone has already submitted a design they should be de-prioritized (so that they don't block new people from getting in), but still accepted if there's space. Basically give first-time entries slots first, then fill in the empty spaces with follow-up entries.
So before you said anything, I said to myself that it sounded like a Porsche but higher pitched. The cooling fan is not pleasant sounding but it's also at the very far back of the car and you don't really hear it inside the car so it's not an issue.... So it's the "same sound" but a higher pitch.
Yeah, whether it is a stiffer material, or thicker blades, or clipped blades that won't contact the sides when at full RPMs, the multistaged fan from this episode needs another go. I don't think it got a fair shot at all. The angel was nice either way.
The variable pitch fan seems like a good idea but, I do not think the blades are not reacting to airflow in this configuration. I believe they are reacting to speed. The pitch of the blades will tend to flatten out due to CTM, centrifugal twisting moment. If the pitch of the blades were designed to give the optimal airflow at certain RPMs this would be a great design but I don't think that was the intention.
Rhino is amazing. I can not, no matter how I try, understand any other cad program after using rhinoceros. Rhino is so easy and has endless options for drawing shapes. Every cad program should work the same way Rhino does
I would love to see the Jet engine inspired Fan to be redone with thicker blades and more clearance, so that you can actually run it at RPMs at around 1750, because the results of it werent bad at all considering that it ran at just below 1000 RPM.
Hey this is not really related to the video but its fan-related the Lincoln Laboratory at MIT has designed a toroidal fan blade propeller which is much quieter than standard 2-bladed propellers originally meant for drones, but I wonder if the design can be adapted somehow for computer fans
I am torn, on one hand... Unique is good! On the other hand... there's probably someone else in the thousands of submissions who has something else interesting, and if not, then at least for the sake of competition it is not really fair. That said... I think if someone has a bunch of really unique fans we could do some sort of preliminary episode to demo a couple options, then enter one into the competition. Or do an adjacent/special episode like with the gear fans.
That multi- piece fan looks really cool though. it reminds me of those huge slow crossflow(?) fans for ventilation (you know, the ones that kind of look like a trippy screen saver, or vizualization for windows media player).
Before I finish the video, I'm going on record to say that the variable pitch blade fan that is "allowed to find it's own optimal angle" will flatten out (if the blades turn at all). I was wrong. Anyways, notice how some of the fan blades have an airfoil shape to them? What if there were bumps instead of the typical airfoil shape? The airfoil shape is designed to have the air move over the top of the wing faster than the air under it...so if there were aerodynamically shaped bumps replacing the typical shape, wouldn't that make the air move even faster?
I think it's perfectly acceptable to have the same people on fan showdown. I just would prefer it to not be iterations of a fan, seeing "cheater v2, cheater v7 etc" would be boring, however if the same person who made cheater made flyer I don't see a reason to exclude them.
@Major Hardware, out of curiosity, does your SPL meter also tell you what frequency the highest peak(s) sits at? Asking bc it's kinda difficult to tell with the scale being so small on my phone, but it would be another good metric to chart IMO, as witnessed with the 993. Many of the fans /look/ to peak in the sub-60 Hz range if I'm reading that right, which is often much more tolerable than a peak (or set of them) much closer to the range of human speech...
You'd need a bigger motor or to make it lighter to accomplish that. Using a bigger motor defeats the point of the series, and to make it lighter you'd have to redesign seeing as everything is using the same materials.
i dont like the idea of arbitrarily stifling creativity and innovation so if someone has something cool i dont care if they already had one fan on the show what if that second fan is amazing and revolutionizes the future of fan blade technology but because maybe he sent in a meme fan and you used it first it just doesnt get to see the light of day
The design would need to have a slightly tighter curve in - tip of blade closer to hub - vs shortening. Shortening wont do good, but keeping same thinness and accounting for the flex (like real turbines...though combination of material is what they do).
Just a few tweaks, once printed a quick sanding should be enough to continue… But not having to do post processing work is the goal of the submissions.
@@CharlesGriswold Easier to just add a perimeter ring to the blades, that stops the deflection and should also theoretically be better for sound as well.
I loved the way yours looked too, and it had a tighter exhaust compared to the rest, so it really did some magical airflow tricks lol. Congrats on placing 1st, it must be a thrilling feeling knowing that you were the one to design a fanblade to take number 1 for sure!
I would love it if when a fan like yours took the top spot, he did an episode with a few variations, so we could see what worked and what could still be improved upon. Maybe do 7 and 9 blade versions at the same blade pitch and do another 2 with 11 blades at slightly different pitches or something along those lines.
I recently watched a show on analyzing airflow. there is a neat thing you can do on the cheap that will look cool and reveal a lot. When doing the smoke test, turn out the lights and use a laser level vetically. It will cut a slice of the air and highlight it with the use of less smoke.
I noticed awhile ago that the “best” fans almost always have either 7 or 9 blades, so the 11 blade idea seems legit. Can’t wait to see how these all perform
@@jasonmajere2165 bingo. I’m an engineer for a engine dynamometer manufacturer. Everything we do is tied to prime numbers as well…eg rotor and stator both have a prime number of blades (7 and 11) for efficiency. Since air behaves like a liquid, the same principles apply.
@@JMurph2015 9 is probably chosen as it splits the difference between 7 and 11. There are some situations where 7 is too few, but 11 is too many. The Noctua fan is a great example of this. Their fans are designed around the blade geometry, so altering their shape to fit with a prime number of blades around the hub with the desired blade gaps conflicts with that goal. So instead they find some number that more closely hits their design goals while still avoiding any harmonics with the 4 posts of the fan hub supports.
993 also has 6 horizonally opposed pistons firing.. you hear the fan, but not nearly as loud as you think. at idle hardly audible over the engine. revving it up you hear every other sound but not the much of the fan
It is fine to have multi-submission like MK's. Feel free to decide your rules. Would like to see the Variable in different RPMs and how the blade pitch is affected by it? Thank you.
Hell YEAH been waiting for new fans lol loving your enthusiasm in these videos. "Exception" allow as many as someone can come up with "as long as they are seemingly different. But I would suggest not allowing two+ from one individual on the same show.
It would likely help to use a resin printer instead of the standard 3D printer. Stronger material and it'll turn out much smoother. Also the turbine blades are far too few, the compressor part of a jet engine (which this is based on) has a lot more blades which are always a prime number and offset from each other. (The reason for the prime number is because it stops a resonance from forming)
G'day Major & Andy, Very impressed with Andy's Angel, not only did it perform very well moving air but also doing it without Shouting, very deserving of 🥇1st being very close to the A12 in both performance & volume
Every season I am always simultaneously amused and amazed by the fact that "Eh, I'm just messing about" fans always seem to come out on top meanwhile the carefully engineered ones lag behind.
It definitely was. The speed where it made contact with the housing seemed to be about 2/3 of full whack. That's a lot of fan performance left on the table.
7:40 A cool suggestion, pun intended 😂 I think you should post a bonus episode at the end of each season where you/designer tweak the fans that have print and interference issues so they work correctly to give them a better chance! The turbine design is sick and it would be cool to see it perform its best, I’m sure some of the creators would love to be able to fix tolerances/blade thickness if it means they could improve performance. Plus, each time something like this happens I’m always left wondering what could’ve been 😂 love all your vids, keep it up!
I love the idea of it being a bonus end of season episode. Keeps it from swamping submissions, limits people to one second chance, but still gives us the chance to see the designs "as intended".
@@Ylyrra agree. maybe do a viewer vote for 4 or 5 fans from that season that didn't work as intended to see them corrected and retested in an end of season finale/bonus episode or something. i know he's done it with a few fans per viewer request if the creator resubmitted a fixed design.
8:11 Another takeaway: IF you decide to keep the blades thin, and especially if the blades are curved, make them shorter than they needs to be, because they WILL straighten up & become longer when the fan rotates at some 1'000's revolutions per minute.
It's not just a matter of length (that's what she said), they're pushing air - so they'll deflect along the axis of the fan too, and contact the stators, and that's going to be even more of a problem for even a minor connection.
@@Ylyrra Yes, but I was not referring to this specific design, but designs in general. But it is a good point to bring up, and important to think about if the fan needs to spin in a confined space.
Shorter and with more curvature. That way when the fan reaches max speed and the blades deflect out, they deflect into optimal position instead of deflecting into a less efficient position.
It would be interesting to do the jet thing and sand the tips of the blades so much that at full speed they didn't touch, to see how it performed then. Kind of like the SR71 that won't stop leaking until it's at a certain height. The blades won't work properly until they're at the full speed.
Might be worth looking in to the effect of torque induced friction on any future “self-correcting” fans, namely how over tightening can provide additional friction to somewhat control how quickly the blades react to their motion, or reduce the amount of movement
I think if you run across particularly noteworthy fans like you've done here it's good to include them, even if they are from a designer that's already had a fan appear in the season.
I think the Angel's 11 blades work well for the same reasons gear sets are made with teeth in prime numbers. The first harmonic would be the product of both the pinion and gear. The higher that number the less frequently the same 2 teeth make contact, thus making the wear across all teeth even. Also fewer reinforcing harmonic frequencies.
You can probably use a strobe light on that variable-pitch fan to capture the images
That is an excellent idea, cyclical stuff can be stroboscoped to "slow" it down.
Or take a flash image at various RPMs. The flash is super short, so the shutter speed won't really matter as long as it's not shorter than the camera's flash sync speed. Manual flashes lets you adjust the duration of the flash too for more or less light, so it won't be video, but you get to see how the angle is at least.
came here to say just that. stroboscope + slowmo cam would probably get the job done good enough
@@Alexandra-Rex nah, use a strobe and get it adjusted so the moving part stops moving to your eyes, then just video the whole process. Take photos from the video
Props to Harold Edgerton.
I think most of us just want to see the best and most interesting fans. While it's valuable to limit submissions to let more people participate, if someone submits another deserving fan then we'd like to see it. The way you're already doing it seems right. I'd also be okay if designers got a second chance with a fan that needed design improvements, such as the multi-stage fan here.
My dad owns a 993 and I immediately noticed that the fan sounds so similar to the real thing. Although I don't think it sounds annoying at all at least in the car and in your recording but I could just be used to it :)
Dont forget the fact that in a car there is also a engine making noise
@@TimsVideoArchief true but listening to the running car with the hood open I think the fan is actually "very" loud and noticeable
@@TimsVideoArchief exactly, and the fan noise when revving up mixed with engine is just pure pleasure for most car folks :) and you get noticed more :D but not when gaming ;)
The bigger one will be lower in pitch, which helps a lot.
@@Llohr Came here to say the same thing. Since the car fan is larger with larger holes on the front, which I'm sure help contribute to the unique sound, the pitch should be lower. The lower pitch should be far less annoying.
993 designer here. Wow that's a lot louder than I expected 🤣maybe forcing air through those small openings caused it.
still love that design
@@MajorHardware I am curious if the fans that are being tested are RPM throttled or if they are allowed to go full out? Basically wondering if any of the sub 48dBA fans running at less than 2k RPM could be pushed to 2K RPM and then what their sound profile would be as well as the FPM/CFM statistics. Seeing as how some of those fans still have quite a bit of RPM distance to gain on the Noctua if they would end up being better or worse than it or their current standings on the leader board.
@@dracconis69 they're running at 100% except fans like the the jet engine where if they're contacting any shroud he'll try to limit the speed so they're actually useful in testing. only limitation on rpm is the fan it's self(weight, drag, etc). think it was season 2 he tried limiting them to a specific db but to many people whined about it so he's just kept it at 100%.
@@sirmonkey1985 Basic fan controllers only let you adjust the percentage of the fan's own max speed, they don't take specific RPM goals. So for most people there is no realistic meaning to RPM-throttling, because that would be different percentage for each tested fan.
@@KimonFrousios it would be cool if he built a teststand that was configured to constant RPM.
that would give new design requirements for a new season.
Someone needs to let @RealCivilEngineerGaming know that an architect has taken the top spot in an engineering design challenge.
Don't tell him. He'll have an aneurism.
@@kasai7272 Maybe he will need to make a fan using the strongest shape.
@@n1elkyfan Someone has already done that if I am remembering correctly.. It completely sucked at sucking.
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And today, and faaaaan review.
The two stage needs a redesign and revisit!!
Also you should do some cleanup on the fans little bits of filament can make a quiet fan really loud.
All impressive fans with good patterns. but the Angel just felt like it pulled air remarkably well, I always say if there's fog on the other side they probably didn't do well. while they all did well the Angel moved the air the furthest in my opinion and looked like an early winner.
Theres also the way how the smoke look almost linear on how they flow. Its not going up like the 993, and its not going down like the Variable. Just a straight vortex.
I feel like the essence of the show is showing off cool and efficient designs. If someone sends a second submission different than the previous one and also interesting enough to be feature, they definitely deserve to be featured.
Congrats Andy on nailing on your first try, I did expect a store attached to the design but anyway congrats,
also i loved the jet engine one , i think had the blades been thicker and the shroud big enough to compensate for the deflection it would have been really cool.
the way i noticed i could see fan blades while they were spinning is with a bunch of light from flashlights/spotlights and having shutter speed set really low (even on a phone) with whatever ISO needed to compensate for light
I would say it's fine to allow a secondary or third submission from a person if they happen to make something so unique, that it's worth showing anyways despite them having already had a fan run in the season.
Awesome line up of fans, kudos to everyone! Great episode to, love your editing, always on point, always a few lols. Oh, IMO if someone submits more than one design worth testing, by all means test them!
Its cool how similar the fans that are just scaled down car fans really sound similar to just a car with its fan running while it's idle.
Dang, I already felt like the eddies in the Angel exhaust were indicative of something, but seeing those results... it manages amazing numbers with less RPM than the Noctua. I actually was very much impressed!
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Yes the fans in 911s do sound like that, the earlier ones with strait blades are even louder than swept blade variants, to be fair they are pretty quiet on idle, and at high rpm you can hear them but the engine does a pretty good job drowning the fan out, it's very noticeable when you get off the throttle though.
The one frame of the jet engine exploding before the ads was great lmao
I think the next season should have rpm limitations to reach decibel criteria so like slowly increase rpm until it reaches a certain sound level then measure the airflow. We've done airflow so how about sound for the next season?
Yep. Next season should be sound test.
One 1000rpm normalised, and one at full rpm.
I'm fine with you using your discretion to show multiple fans from one designer. As long as they are innovative in some way or updated to resolve critical issues that could have major impacts to performance.
This season has been amazing in the leaderboard, now we have a new leader on the board and a good idea of what makes a good fan
How about including voltage operated and overall power usage? 💪 Love the show 😁
Yeah the 993 does sound like that, but only at high rpm and usually you move through that frequency as the berries have been dispensed to the engine. It’s an incredibly sonorous noise that comes from behind, its felt viscerally and for the most part gives a huge dopamine dump, but you 100% notice those bizarre and uncomfortable frequencies that are like fingers on a chalk board visceral.
Love the fan show down! Ever thought of remaking the Noctua and using that as a reference? A storebought vs a 3d printed fan might give a significant difference in results. This might be a better reference point as all others are printed as well.
I would recommend keeping the 1 submission per show but creating a special episode that would allow/forgo the 1 fan submission.
membrane cantilever flexing is a wonderful thing, even in photon momentum membrane cantilever transistors (ie photon activated bending flex switches)
subliminal suggestions
I have a question or a thought. Have you tried printing the Noctua fan, just to see what the 3d print artifacts do to the performance? I feel like while the imperfections may cause a little extra drag we are not sure what a "Finalized" or casted blade would change. But with a 3D-printed version of the Noctua, we could try and calculate the differences. I know it's all just for fun but I think that would be a good bit of info to have. I also kinda feel like I am not the first person to say this, but I am too lazy to go through all the videos and comments.
I think if someone has already submitted a design they should be de-prioritized (so that they don't block new people from getting in), but still accepted if there's space.
Basically give first-time entries slots first, then fill in the empty spaces with follow-up entries.
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variable pitch fan blade would be neat
idk why but the jet engine exploding was golden
So before you said anything, I said to myself that it sounded like a Porsche but higher pitched. The cooling fan is not pleasant sounding but it's also at the very far back of the car and you don't really hear it inside the car so it's not an issue.... So it's the "same sound" but a higher pitch.
About the one vs. several submissions, "Rule of cool" should always apply.
I.E. if its cool/unique, I have zero objections to mulpile entries.
just started, but how bout a top 10 showdown. and they have to make a smaller fan like a 60mm or something. love the channel keep it up buddy!
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Very interesting content! Curious how much smoothing out the rough surfaces from the print process would make a difference aerodynamically.
Yeah, whether it is a stiffer material, or thicker blades, or clipped blades that won't contact the sides when at full RPMs, the multistaged fan from this episode needs another go. I don't think it got a fair shot at all. The angel was nice either way.
ill keep saying it. you should include the 3d printed replica of the a12x25 on the leader-board to make the results more fair
Just submitted an update to my design to optimize it for season 5 (it was designed for season 4). Here's to hoping I make it in this season!
have you heard about the propeler revolution: torroidal propeler. makes drones silent, and fly longer
The variable pitch fan seems like a good idea but, I do not think the blades are not reacting to airflow in this configuration. I believe they are reacting to speed. The pitch of the blades will tend to flatten out due to CTM, centrifugal twisting moment. If the pitch of the blades were designed to give the optimal airflow at certain RPMs this would be a great design but I don't think that was the intention.
Rhino is amazing. I can not, no matter how I try, understand any other cad program after using rhinoceros. Rhino is so easy and has endless options for drawing shapes. Every cad program should work the same way Rhino does
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blade deflection can be negated or at least one directional by constructing a outer ring for the blades
@Major_Hardware.1 well...youtube cant fix shit there are still bots...a lot.of them..
I would love some be quiet! tests. I've had very good experiences with them
have you considered doing a comparison of the winners of each season printed on FDM vs SLA?
You called the 993 a "new 1911" @1:02
LIKE THE OL' DAYS ON THE BASKETBALL COURT: WINNER stays on court. [meaning: winners can keep submitting. ]
I would love to see the Jet engine inspired Fan to be redone with thicker blades and more clearance, so that you can actually run it at RPMs at around 1750, because the results of it werent bad at all considering that it ran at just below 1000 RPM.
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you should print and test the angel in resin
Hey this is not really related to the video but its fan-related
the Lincoln Laboratory at MIT has designed a toroidal fan blade propeller which is much quieter than standard 2-bladed propellers originally meant for drones, but I wonder if the design can be adapted somehow for computer fans
The 993’s fan is belt driven, it’s not electric, so it’s not going to ramp up with the speed of the engine and therefore it’s barely audible at idle
I am torn, on one hand... Unique is good! On the other hand... there's probably someone else in the thousands of submissions who has something else interesting, and if not, then at least for the sake of competition it is not really fair.
That said... I think if someone has a bunch of really unique fans we could do some sort of preliminary episode to demo a couple options, then enter one into the competition. Or do an adjacent/special episode like with the gear fans.
That multi- piece fan looks really cool though. it reminds me of those huge slow crossflow(?) fans for ventilation (you know, the ones that kind of look like a trippy screen saver, or vizualization for windows media player).
I could imagine a less fancy show, just print and test and that's it. less yap. just chew through the pile
Before I finish the video, I'm going on record to say that the variable pitch blade fan that is "allowed to find it's own optimal angle" will flatten out (if the blades turn at all).
I was wrong.
Anyways, notice how some of the fan blades have an airfoil shape to them? What if there were bumps instead of the typical airfoil shape? The airfoil shape is designed to have the air move over the top of the wing faster than the air under it...so if there were aerodynamically shaped bumps replacing the typical shape, wouldn't that make the air move even faster?
Need to make the blades as smooth as possible to make then sound better, build the blades to have a small excess amount to sand down and maybe polish.
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I think the multi stage one needs a second chance with a slightly updated design.
If the blades of the multistage were shaped like jet wings that would give it the thickness without hindering airflow.
Just add a thin ring to stop the blades from hitting the sides right?
Never notice any loud sound from my 993 fan.
for people who submit more than 1 fan, could you do like a round 2, where its only people who've submitted a second time?
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I think it's perfectly acceptable to have the same people on fan showdown. I just would prefer it to not be iterations of a fan, seeing "cheater v2, cheater v7 etc" would be boring, however if the same person who made cheater made flyer I don't see a reason to exclude them.
one vote for exceptions made for exceptional designs
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The beard is glorious
So . . . if the Angel was resin printed, could it go over the top?
Creative designs should be showcased, no matter the amount of submissions. Maybe have a person's submissions compete againist each other?
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I'd say set the limit to 3 fans per season per person
Can't the blades be reinforced with a bar from tip of one blade to the next?
Angel was so good that I think the designer should leave architect job and go only fans.
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@Major Hardware, out of curiosity, does your SPL meter also tell you what frequency the highest peak(s) sits at? Asking bc it's kinda difficult to tell with the scale being so small on my phone, but it would be another good metric to chart IMO, as witnessed with the 993. Many of the fans /look/ to peak in the sub-60 Hz range if I'm reading that right, which is often much more tolerable than a peak (or set of them) much closer to the range of human speech...
We have a 993 turbo engine in our 1974 911
Is that an alternator or just the fan clutch?
So if the angel spun at noctuas 2000rpm its gonna come close to its performance or maybe outperform it!? I wanna see the angel spinning at 2000rpm !
You'd need a bigger motor or to make it lighter to accomplish that.
Using a bigger motor defeats the point of the series, and to make it lighter you'd have to redesign seeing as everything is using the same materials.
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Is Fran, from the multi-stage, Fran Blanche?
why are the blades backwards on the 1st one????
i dont like the idea of arbitrarily stifling creativity and innovation so if someone has something cool i dont care if they already had one fan on the show what if that second fan is amazing and revolutionizes the future of fan blade technology but because maybe he sent in a meme fan and you used it first it just doesnt get to see the light of day
As long as your not the one guy who sent in like 53
Yes. But also there's always someone who ruins everything. So maybe some rules should apply.
Now I wish I would have put my comment underneath your comment to give it more clout
Agree 100%
@@_sticks_ No more than 3 seems reasonable.
I really liked the shot of all 4 fans doing the smoke test was really cool to see them all.
With the multi running at half the RPM, it'd be interesting for a redesign to run at full speed.
If you shortened the blades slightly so they were the proper length at speed, that would probably do the trick.
@@CharlesGriswold that would help with interference, but as the blades deflect that would also drastically alter their pitch.
The design would need to have a slightly tighter curve in - tip of blade closer to hub - vs shortening. Shortening wont do good, but keeping same thinness and accounting for the flex (like real turbines...though combination of material is what they do).
Just a few tweaks, once printed a quick sanding should be enough to continue…
But not having to do post processing work is the goal of the submissions.
@@CharlesGriswold Easier to just add a perimeter ring to the blades, that stops the deflection and should also theoretically be better for sound as well.
My mind is blown! I'm so thrilled to call myself a fan showdown number one!!!
I loved the way yours looked too, and it had a tighter exhaust compared to the rest, so it really did some magical airflow tricks lol. Congrats on placing 1st, it must be a thrilling feeling knowing that you were the one to design a fanblade to take number 1 for sure!
@@morpheon_xyz thank you so much! "Cool looking" is one of my top design criteria. I was also pretty impressed with the tightness of spiral
@@avanmater If it was cool with 11 blades... imagine how much cooler it would be with 13! At least 18%
@@clintonsavage4018 if only it we're that simple. It would be neat to graph the difference between 5,7,9,11, 13... Blades.
I would love it if when a fan like yours took the top spot, he did an episode with a few variations, so we could see what worked and what could still be improved upon. Maybe do 7 and 9 blade versions at the same blade pitch and do another 2 with 11 blades at slightly different pitches or something along those lines.
I wonder how well the angel could do if the build quality and tolerance were as tight as the noctua
Edited for spelling
I recently watched a show on analyzing airflow. there is a neat thing you can do on the cheap that will look cool and reveal a lot. When doing the smoke test, turn out the lights and use a laser level vetically. It will cut a slice of the air and highlight it with the use of less smoke.
Solid suggestion!
That's a really cool idea.
I noticed awhile ago that the “best” fans almost always have either 7 or 9 blades, so the 11 blade idea seems legit. Can’t wait to see how these all perform
Same with hydraulic pumps. Odd numbers
Not just odd numbers, prime numbers. 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17... It avoids resonance when in use.
@@jasonmajere2165 bingo. I’m an engineer for a engine dynamometer manufacturer. Everything we do is tied to prime numbers as well…eg rotor and stator both have a prime number of blades (7 and 11) for efficiency.
Since air behaves like a liquid, the same principles apply.
@@Extmajor prime numbers reduce harmonics. 9 blades is a bit of an anomaly.
@@JMurph2015 9 is probably chosen as it splits the difference between 7 and 11. There are some situations where 7 is too few, but 11 is too many. The Noctua fan is a great example of this. Their fans are designed around the blade geometry, so altering their shape to fit with a prime number of blades around the hub with the desired blade gaps conflicts with that goal. So instead they find some number that more closely hits their design goals while still avoiding any harmonics with the 4 posts of the fan hub supports.
993 also has 6 horizonally opposed pistons firing.. you hear the fan, but not nearly as loud as you think. at idle hardly audible over the engine. revving it up you hear every other sound but not the much of the fan
thanks for the update one day i'll own a porsche ...one day
It is fine to have multi-submission like MK's. Feel free to decide your rules. Would like to see the Variable in different RPMs and how the blade pitch is affected by it? Thank you.
Yeah! All we want is cool creative fans, if one person has several good ideas, show'em!
Hell YEAH been waiting for new fans lol loving your enthusiasm in these videos.
"Exception" allow as many as someone can come up with "as long as they are seemingly different.
But I would suggest not allowing two+ from one individual on the same show.
I say the angel should be one of those fans that gets picked up by an actual fan company. I would totally buy it!
I would be interested in seeing a corrected version of the multi stage. Maybe a s5e4.5 hehe
Or a season dedicated to improved versions of past designs. Fan Showdown: The Next Iteration
It would likely help to use a resin printer instead of the standard 3D printer. Stronger material and it'll turn out much smoother.
Also the turbine blades are far too few, the compressor part of a jet engine (which this is based on) has a lot more blades which are always a prime number and offset from each other. (The reason for the prime number is because it stops a resonance from forming)
One per season, unless it's a really cool fan
G'day Major & Andy,
Very impressed with Andy's Angel, not only did it perform very well moving air but also doing it without Shouting,
very deserving of 🥇1st being very close to the A12 in both performance & volume
Every season I am always simultaneously amused and amazed by the fact that "Eh, I'm just messing about" fans always seem to come out on top meanwhile the carefully engineered ones lag behind.
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The Multistage one could be interesting with either a ring or meatier blades, just to see if it was held back by the limited fan speed.
It definitely was. The speed where it made contact with the housing seemed to be about 2/3 of full whack. That's a lot of fan performance left on the table.
I am impressed Andy did surprisingly well for the first try despite having zero fan design experience. He indeed have done his homework well.
On one hand, I'm glad Andy's R&D worked out, but on the other, I'm sad the concept behind the variable didn't work out.
The 993 sounds like a typical automotive fan honestly 🤣
Only allow second submission if it is truly something really out there and unique.
Maybe the angel with a better suface finish and balance can overcome the Noctua
My god, an Architect managed to Engineer a good fan! My mind is blown.
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7:40 A cool suggestion, pun intended 😂 I think you should post a bonus episode at the end of each season where you/designer tweak the fans that have print and interference issues so they work correctly to give them a better chance! The turbine design is sick and it would be cool to see it perform its best, I’m sure some of the creators would love to be able to fix tolerances/blade thickness if it means they could improve performance. Plus, each time something like this happens I’m always left wondering what could’ve been 😂 love all your vids, keep it up!
I love the idea of it being a bonus end of season episode. Keeps it from swamping submissions, limits people to one second chance, but still gives us the chance to see the designs "as intended".
@@Ylyrra agree. maybe do a viewer vote for 4 or 5 fans from that season that didn't work as intended to see them corrected and retested in an end of season finale/bonus episode or something. i know he's done it with a few fans per viewer request if the creator resubmitted a fixed design.
I could increase the distance between top of the rotor and the bottom of the stator, and thicken the blades toward the center
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8:11 Another takeaway:
IF you decide to keep the blades thin, and especially if the blades are curved, make them shorter than they needs to be, because they WILL straighten up & become longer when the fan rotates at some 1'000's revolutions per minute.
It's not just a matter of length (that's what she said), they're pushing air - so they'll deflect along the axis of the fan too, and contact the stators, and that's going to be even more of a problem for even a minor connection.
@@Ylyrra Yes, but I was not referring to this specific design, but designs in general.
But it is a good point to bring up, and important to think about if the fan needs to spin in a confined space.
Shorter and with more curvature. That way when the fan reaches max speed and the blades deflect out, they deflect into optimal position instead of deflecting into a less efficient position.
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It would be interesting to do the jet thing and sand the tips of the blades so much that at full speed they didn't touch, to see how it performed then. Kind of like the SR71 that won't stop leaking until it's at a certain height. The blades won't work properly until they're at the full speed.
Architect attempts to be an engineer. RCE would be proud.
Might be worth looking in to the effect of torque induced friction on any future “self-correcting” fans, namely how over tightening can provide additional friction to somewhat control how quickly the blades react to their motion, or reduce the amount of movement
Maybe test a 3d printed A12x25
I bet if the Angel were made like the Noctua, not 3d printed, it would have performed just as well
I love this show.
I was surprised when the cheater was beaten, now the angel? So cool💨
I think if you run across particularly noteworthy fans like you've done here it's good to include them, even if they are from a designer that's already had a fan appear in the season.
I think the Angel's 11 blades work well for the same reasons gear sets are made with teeth in prime numbers. The first harmonic would be the product of both the pinion and gear. The higher that number the less frequently the same 2 teeth make contact, thus making the wear across all teeth even. Also fewer reinforcing harmonic frequencies.