Dead Messiahs Who Don't Return
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- This special lecture from 2009 is an expansion an academic paper I gave at the Annual Meeting of the American Academy of Religion in 1997. You can download the notes at my blog: jamestabor.com...
This lecture was part a Biblical Archaeology Society seminar, publishers of the premiere archaeology magazine, Biblical Archaeology Review. It is used with permission.
I encourage viewers to subscribe to the incredible BAS Library, with thousands of articles, books, and videos. There is nothing like this rich archive that covers every major topic and discovery for more than 40 years. Unlimited access to the library is available for a small annual subscription price, see: www.baslibrary....
Dear James. I just want want to say how your knowledge and passion has helped, u tube will reach millions. Your work will not be in vain. Thank you I can listen to you for hours.
Nonsense.
What a foolish, selfishly glorified statement. Is he your God too?
Tabor always manages to capture my respect and admiration. I usually consider that American good old boy approach as an immediate red flag when watching Biblical scholars, but Tabor seems to have an actual hungering for the truth of things which sets him apart!
It is the truth you want to hear.
@@robertbrown7470 No doubt!🙂🙂
Thank you. As a jew, this adds so much context.
@@alphaomega1351 are you a Jew?
At 3:52, "this generation the prophecies WERE fulfilled". Tabor doesn't understand Biblical eschatology or the second coming. His knowledge is the same as a fundamentalist. He's got the second coming and the eschatological end of days WRONG. He's just another average pastor that doesn't understand the Hebraic mindset.
There is no mention of a second coming anywhere in the Old Testament.
This was a fantastic lecture, and the information got more and more exciting as it went on. Thanks, Dr. Tabor!
Reading the comments from Christians about blood and being saved from eternal sin by the death of the son of god and why God had to kill his son is just so weird. Been reading the Bible for decades and marvel at what people believe....and condemn others for not believing.
God didn't have to kill his only Son. That's completely false teaching, something of Luther's doing, among others and shoved down the throats of gullible, well intentioned people. It's completely nuts and not what any sane person would think of in relation to a loving father. For goodness sake, please get it right before you start criticising, best regards, A
So you agree with him but still tried to correct him on what you agree with him with. 🧐
@@subcitizen2012 Sorry, but er..don't understand how you have come to your conclusion. Maybe it's my use of the phrase 'God didn't have to kill His only son' which upon consideration might be assumed to mean He did kill His only son. If so, thanks for the pointing that out. Of course, God neither had to nor did kill His only son. Hope that makes thing clearer, regards, A
At 3:52, "this generation the prophecies WERE fulfilled". Tabor doesn't understand Biblical eschatology or the second coming. His knowledge is the same as a fundamentalist. He's got the second coming and the eschatological end of days WRONG. He's just another average pastor that doesn't understand the Hebraic mindset.
Old Testament Abraham made up from whole cloth and Moses relates to Akhenatun. See book The Secrets of the Exodus. Why are people wasting their time on religions based on myth and made up stories with no corroborated historical foundations. Wake up!! God is real but has no use for linear time.
Damascus document. Paul was persecuting Essene community outside Jerusalem hence Gnostic. Etc. Wake up people! Read the Tao Te Ching or Bhagavad Gita or Dhammapada or Chuang Tzu and put away all these childish things!! 🦎💦
Wow. A lot of apologists who have zero understanding of biblical scholarship commenting here. Why?
They seem to bomb certain videos
Because apologists are afraid of people learning and thinking from unsanctioned sources
@@stewartthorpe2533 a
I'm going to the desert. You see housing? Hell, I've been sober almost five years!!! No more unGodley men or system. You have to be that change. Get offline. How's that?
All day 😂 it's so funny
Dr Tabor is always good.
No he isn't. At 3:52, this generation the prophecies WERE fulfilled. Tabor doesn't understand biblical eschatology or the second coming. He's not interpreting the Scriptures from a Hebraic context but is instead interpreting them from his own world view.
@@70AD-user45Proof or gtfo.
Empty accusations from a nobody.
Jesus never came back. You are wrong. Misguided.
@@70AD-user45 Matthew 24:30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other…….this is the “this generation” prophecy that didn’t happen. verse 34). Almost 2000 years late now so it was a false prophecy. It’s going to be ok. Forgiveness of sins is through repentance, and repentance has nothing to do with Jesus.
@@colinmilton8823
Haven't you figured it out yet? "This generation" in Matthew 24 is referring to the end of the Old Covenant age of Israel, fulfilled in 70 AD, according to the prophets. Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed and salvation arrived for a righteous remnant (all of them were believers in Jesus), at the end of the Old Covenant age, at the judgement of apostate Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Judgement always happens at the same time as salvation. Look back at the Old Testament. The arrival of the New Covenant kingdom age, or the Messianic age, also arrived in 70 AD. Haven't you heard of the 2nd Exodus? From 30 AD (the ministry of the Messiah), to 70 AD (divine judgement of apostate Jerusalem), there was a 40 year transition period. In this 40-year 2nd Exodus, there was a righteous remnant (all of them were believers in Jesus), who were in the process of coming out of the Old Covenant age of Torah and into the Messianic age of the Church. The 2nd coming (the parousia) was spiritual in nature, "on the clouds of heaven" (Matthew 26, 64), just as it was in the Old Testament when God came in judgement of the nations, also "on the clouds of heaven", which is Hebraic apocalyptic language for divine judgement. Jesus kept His promise of His parousia in fulfillment of the prophets, and returned "on the clouds"; to close down the Old Covenant age; to begin the New Covenant kingdom age; to pass judgement on apostate Jerusalem who crucified their Messiah; and the resurrection of the dead was also in 70 AD. The Old Covenant age was known as the "ministration of sin and condemnation". It was a spiritual or covenantal resurrection of the "dead ones", out of the "ministration of sin and condemnation" (the Old Covenant) and into an everlasting New Covenant which gave spiritual life to a righteous remnant. The Old Covenant symbolised spiritual death whilst the New Covenant gives spiritual life. The righteous remnant inherited the New kingdom in 70 AD. Unlike the Old Covenant (they could not obtain righteousness by living under Torah), righteousness was offered as a free gift to all believers in Christ, but only when the New Covenant age arrived in its fullness, in 70 AD.
All things written in the law and prophets were fulfilled in 70 AD, which was "this generation" Matthew 24 was referring to. There is no salvation without Jesus. Without Jesus in your life, you will be cast into the lake of fire in fulfillment of Revelation.
Your work is so important. Thank you 🙏🏼
This is fascinating. You have such an easy teaching style, your students should count themselves lucky...
I am very lucky accessing a teacher who is relaxed and willing to teach me in the comfort of my own chosen time. ❤
I so enjoyed this, Dr Tabor. Thank you!
I wouldn’t want to be him in front of Jesus Christ at WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT, Go o shepherds chapel GEn, 1 - Rev. 22 . EVERY WORD TAUGHT FROM A SCHOLAR,
Dr. Tabor was easily my favorite professor. This guy's knowledge is incredible.
Anyone who had this man has a professor is very unlucky!!! Nobody can force anybody to go to Heaven. He who is unrighteous, let him remain unrighteous- The Savior- Master Jesus- the Son of God is coming soon.
@@hezecomp you think you’re going to heaven with that graven image of a man God dying on a wooden idol cross as your profile picture? Lmao! That’s not even Jesus!!
@Pharisee Spot you seem completely esoteric with that response...
@@hezecomp Who cares Tabor has a gift he makes everything interesting & explains things clearly. Let's be honest this whole religion thing could be stuff & nonsense yet he makes the viewer involved & fascinated.
At 3:52, "this generation the prophecies WERE fulfilled". Tabor doesn't understand Biblical eschatology or the second coming. His knowledge is the same as a fundamentalist. He's got the second coming and the eschatological end of days WRONG. He's just another average pastor that doesn't understand the Hebraic mindset.
Heard of this channel from MythVision
Me too
Same.
Me bush.
@@stevenv6463 🤣
I got it through Gnostic inormant.. so cool 😎 so much clear understanding information.
Brilliant. You are my favorite NT scholar. Thanks for this Dr Tabor!
one of the few speakers to ever mention albert schwitzer.
At 3:52, this generation the prophecies WERE fulfilled. Tabor doesn't understand biblical eschatology or the second coming.
Very good stuff, thank you very much,
Very interesting lecture. Recommended by Mythvision
Mythvision...🤭...👍
Thank you for these amazing videos Dr Tabor. On the off chance that you read these comments, I hope you won't mind if I ask a question:
The Habakkuk Pesher mentions someone called "Absalom". Josephus also uses that name when describing "Menachem The Essene". Are they the same person?
Thank you so much.
This was very, very good.
Interesting timing in watching this. I bought olive oil soap this morning made in Palestine. I never made that connection with the woman's anointing of Yeshua.
Excellent, I wondered how to pronounce it in today’s Torah Portion
What about 1 Thess? Paul says Jesus will return in a time of peace when no one is looking for him. And that was written long before 70 AD. I think all the violent prophecies are about the fall of Jerusalem. I think what you’re talking about is what the first believers *thought.* Not what Jesus actually said.
EXCELLENT!!! Thank you. 🔥🔥🔥
Verse >James 1:27 KJV( Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To Visit the fatherless and widows in their Affliction, and to Keep himself unspotted from the world.) The religious leaders keep us confused 😂
@@erinmeggik391 Unfortunate, but very true! 😔
Fascinating!
This artwork ischemic first I’ve seen that is likely accurate of the naked state of those being crucified.
Great 👍
What a heart rending scene it is.! A prophet of God is presented naked on cross. God cannot be so cruel to punish an innocent that too a messenger He sent to implement His commandments especially when he fulfilled His oder letter and spirit.
Jesus is the king 🤴 of king's
It's a high priest
He is a wise teacher
He is A hiller
He is the promise savior
He is the right hand of God
He is the Son of man
He is the water of life
He is the good Shepard
He is the door
He is the way
He is the life and resurrection
He is the lamb of God
He is the light of the world
We is the word of God
He is the bread of life
He is the refuge in the storm.
Jesus the mesiah.....mesiahnic
Christ ===== Christians ✝️
@@jesusisgod3318 With all these wonderful epithets you like to see him die a disgraceful death on cross like a hard core criminal.God is merciful to His sincere dedicated and humble worshippers. Don't you see in Torah how He saved Abraham Noah Lut and so on? .
@@abdullakuthyala6476 you must se the plan of God like a big picture, photo.
Here is God Master plan 🙌 🙏 ❤
ruclips.net/video/pryw_8HiBCw/видео.html
The soul that sins has to die. And no remission of sins without Blood., as the life of the flesh is in the blood. All born of Adam have the sin nature, and bound to the grave, our good works have no life in itself to help us conquer death, that’s why Life Himself steps in to take our death upon Himself and redeem us back to eternal life.
@@seekthetruthandthetruthwil2388 The soul whether it sins or not has to die
The remission of sin is repenting and continue doing good. The burden of the sin has to be borne by the person who sins.No soul shall bear burden for another." For each one should carry his own load" Gelatians 6:5 Bible
Remove the Charity status of American churches and fund Education. End the cults of ignorance, gullibility, violence, and hate.
Thank you 👁️
Dead messiahs who don't return -- you mean, like, all of them?
You should change your name to no intelligence...why would you feel the need to say that? Did daddy whoop you to much was mom a crackhead...I'm betting yes on both ma'am
JESUS is the MESSIAH we are looking for, The Son of Man has returned in the flesh once again, Promises made, Promises kept . All Praise,Power and Glory straight to the Almighty God af All,( all inclusive ) 🪶
@@georgebrake8065 Recently? I must have missed it. I would think that might make the nightly news.
@@georgebrake8065 .
@@machintelligence have you never read the Bible? You should try it. It is very interesting.
One of my favorite games, like waiting to spot Hitchcock in a film, is waiting for Dr. Tabor to mention that he's been to Israel recently...😅
Mount Tabor, Portland, Oregon
If your thoughts are sinful the same as actions.how can you stop the thought before it even comes? You can stop the thought once it starts but it's already to late.how do you be holy if you can't stop thought right away?
You are neurotic. Forget about it!
We await on the living one who is yet to come
Heard some of his views I definitely agree on!
Re: Habakkuk 2:4... The part about "If any man draw back..." only appears in one of the six versions extant in Greek. It is not part of the Hebrew, DSS or the majority of extant texts. Also, the LXX I have has, "the just shall live by MY faith"! Hab 2:4 is a faith-killing verse re: reliable transmission.
Neal brought me here. But Derek brought me to Neal 🤔
I am your fan sir
Why are you his fan.
At 3:52, "this generation the prophecies WERE fulfilled". Tabor doesn't understand Biblical eschatology or the second coming. His knowledge is the same as a fundamentalist. He's got the second coming and the eschatological end of days WRONG. He's just another average pastor that doesn't understand the Hebraic mindset.
He may have?,I have seen much strange stuff that cannot be explained by logic or science.
In the first centuries BC and AD, how many Jewish and Israelite groups believed that a messiah had died and would return?
Many. You’re welcome.
Air as a source of life and existence (Anaximenes) was pretty close ...Maybe the omnipresence of magnetism which permeates the whole universe manifesting itself in different patterns of vibration (including light) is the source of everything...
It’s worth pointing out that he points to the “timeline” of preceding historical documents to cast shade on the validity of Christianity, but fails to point out in his acceptance of Islam that it came about some 653 years after Christianity.
@9:00 I do believe they were also "partying it up ", as compared to those you speak of.
Someone said truth was bitter and hard to accept and it is so ,if people have a lot of hard time beliebe the scientific method atleast to predict the working of the material world ,how will they even have the ability to judge a truth like morality etc which are slippery but yet important to humans
Might not "gathering" be referring to raising up an army? What is the Hebrew/Aramaic word being used? Strong's number would be very helpful. Thanks.
As a Catalan, I can see a parallel with our always waiting for liberation of our nation, generation after generation, the teacher being killed and so on. Maybe Judaism is more entrenched in our society and culture than we ourselves think. No signs either.
No where in Deuteronomy 22 is divorcing and remarrying permitted, even conditionally, but rather it focuses on marriage violations.
Tomāto, tomàto.
It's all just a huge millennias' long example of why religion is generally a bad idea. It gets people arguing about nothing and making shit up about how to deal with the "other" people.
Dr Tabor, do you think that "Jesus" could have had a different name, or was Paul just making something up about being given the name above all names?
Actually 'Saul' was now 'Paul' disassociating his old persecuting role of Jesus followers to now become Christs greatest preacher suffering so much indeed filling up the sufferings of Christ because of his preaching efforts 😊
Please see christadelphian bible study and Christadelphian videos for great learning worldwide speakers from Australia New Zealand and Europe and North America
In my comment i intend to refute your statement about Mathew 24 concerning "this generation". But before I do, I would like to add your credentials and experience are both respectable and impressive. Thank you for this content. Now to the pressing matter; Your statement would be true about "This generation" (Genea:Gevec) if Jesus didn't allude to Jeremiah. We know that Jesus and the gospel writters often times alluded to the Neviim indirectly without the use of key phrases such as "In the scriptures". Once you find such indirect pharaphrased instances of the OT, then we can confidently stablish this was the common practice of the gospel authors. This generation refers to Israel as a whole, as a race, Genea in greek, as you already know, can mean group of people, social class, race. In its immidiate context translated to english the intent of genea is lost. By extension, Jesus essentially was echoing the promise made that israel would not dissapear or cease to be a race keeping in mind he mentioned death and destruction in the previous verses.
I can give you many examples were idioms lose their original intent when traslated to another language. Example in spanish is this; El artista lanza su disco pronto. When translated in a literal fashion the word "Lanza" would literally be translated to english as spear. So its english redering would read like this. The artist spear his new album. Please note that words in the translation aren't present in its spanish original counterpart. Yet I had to add words to convey the same message with the exception of the word "lanza" which in its literal sense means spear, yet the message conveyed in spanish is "release". If we translate the word "release" back to spanish assuming we dont have the original in spanish it would not be translated back to "lanza" but probably to "suelta". In this brief example we can see some idioms or phrases cannot be translated literally from their original counterpart.Jesus uses keyphrases such as "seas roaring" Stars "falling to give light". Since the end will come when he shows up, the very heavens will be shaken, but in the meantime israel will not cease to exist only until the end when the heavens are shaken out of place. He echoes a promise made in Jeremiah 31 that israel will exist until the end of time, since he mentioned death and destruction he is assuring that thought these things will come upon the nation it will not disapear, cease exist. "My words will not pass away" is to reinforce the promise.
"This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar- the Lord Almighty is his name: “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the Lord, “will Israel ever cease being a nation before me.” This is what the Lord says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” declares the Lord."
Jeremiah 31:35-37 NIV
bible.com/bible/111/jer.31.35-37.NIV
If this was something they all knew, then why did Jesus' audience receive the code words literally? And why did they change their story as the movement kept going? Jesus also said in Matthew that only the father knows the time, so Jesus was inherently speaking about something he knew nothing about anyway.
Jesus died for the sin of your ignorance so you might be free to live without its burden on yourself and others.
I'm 3 min into this video and you left us hanging wondering who anointed Jesus.
Unnamed woman in Mark! Possibly Mary Magdalene. See jamestabor.com/was-mary-magdalene-the-same-person-as-mary-of-bethany-a-guest-post-from-jeffrey-butz/
@@JamesTaborVideos thank you for that. Its plausible. Although I see that as a more of a burial ceremony and body preparation. The messiah figure would need for the anointing to be done prior to his ministry. An official declaration act performed by the prophet of his time. John the Baptist maybe. John baptized in water and Jesus then after performed a separate baptism. Gospel of John states this.
I don't like to reference the gospel of Phillip but it fits when describing Jesus baptized w olive oil and its referred to as baptism by fire. Olive oil is somewhat flammable.The act was called the chrism. Therefore the Christ was the anointer* performing that act. Paul confirms this by calling the baptism of Jesus the baptism by fire. The 🔥 probably was metaphorical rather than literal.
@@Yohannson Yes, historically, I have no idea, I was thinking more of Mark's theological idea--of Jesus being "anointed" as a suffering Moshiach...not a triumphant one...and by an unnamed woman...so you anoint a "dead" Messiah, just as the Centurion in Mark confesses Jesus only at the end--when he is dead!
@@JamesTaborVideos extreme altruism to the point of death before dishonor. Seems legit only if the supernatural dividend pays off.
The most important question is, is Jesus a prophet, the son of God, or God?
I watched Sheikh Othman bin Al-Farouq's discussions with priests and missionaries, and I see his argument is strong
Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. "
Which was written after Mark... and well after the scrolls... that verse is a revision for a failed prophecy.
Jesus also said he'd be back before the generation passed...
Better repent and sort yourself out, brother.
@@subcitizen2012 do not judge, or you shall be judged.
Evo won against intelligent design in court
That's the first time that I have seen a real depiction of the crucified Christ completely naked on a cross.
Great video! Thanks for helping me in my deconstruction process
Thank you for mentioning the Branch Dravidian’s. I had imagined they would present a new martyrdom that has not, apparently, happened. “They didn’t have a Paul” explained it for me
Thank you for this! That's a great price for digital access to the BAR.
Zechariah 13:7 "Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones." This is the reason why the Lord states in Matthew 12:30 "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters." Also relating to "smite the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered" is Matthew 24:43 "But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into." Sounds like the Peter falling asleep incident. My point is Christ the real Christ would have left before judas returned, why? John 14:30-31 "I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise let us go from here." This is eternal Life referring to death by saying "he has no hold on me" Christ never died however did ascend. This is the true meaning for the phrase "the old king is dead, long live the King." the "King of kings."
If one places no value on the bible these words are basically moot.
@@billybobwombat2231 your thesis holds no weight due to the fact. "You can teach a monkey, to behave and act like a human, but at the end of the day it's still a monkey."
I’ve read the Babylonian Talmud’s account of Jesus bar Panthera. To the oddest part of it, it seemed to me, was that it placed Jesus a century too early. Has anyone investigated whether the writer of that story was confusing Jesus with the teacher of righteousness?
Yes. Someone has investigated.
@@busterbiloxi3833 Who?
These comments are gold
Maybe the resurrection of the dead messiah is in the raising up of the next?
The Day of the Gathering refers to the return of the Dwellers of the Cave who led the Essene rebellion of Simone Bar Kokhba as referred to in the 18th chapter of The Quran and The Prophet like Moses was Prophet Muhammad who became a prophet to this community who were living in the deserts of Hijaz.
Moses said the Prophet would arise from among their people, not Arabs. God picked Israel alone to deliver the covenants and prophesies to the families of mankind fulfilled in Christ as the light to the nations, with the Levites alone vested with the authority to canonize holy writ (the New Testament follows this Torah instruction with St John and converted Levites as corroborated by internal and external information including western and eastern Christian traditions and the Talmud of all places, despite what modern mainline western academia would have us believe).
Muhammed and the Quran are simply and completely tone deaf to the God of the bible’s plans and instructions and is an immense satanic diversion from His divine operation on a level rivaling Darwinism.
I find your picture disrespectful of the crusfiction
Maybe the Son of Man did return in 79 AD. What Christian would have been there to report on it. There seems to be a lot of missing history in those days.
Maybe, just maybe the earth is flat.
It's spot on! Goliath had for brothers too. But David had a sling and 5 smooth Stones.
Sorry it was David and not Daniel who fought Goliath.
@@TheTemen9 I always get them confused. Kinda doesn't matter what name you attach to it tho. The stories are all the same narrative. Kinda adds to the point I'm making. Some people can quote the bible verbatim but miss the entire lesson.
At 3:50, "this generation the prophecies WERE fulfilled". Tabor doesn't understand Biblical eschatology or the second coming. His knowledge is the same as a fundamentalist. He's got the second coming and the eschatological end of days WRONG. He's just another average pastor that doesn't understand the Hebraic mindset.
@@70AD-user45😂😂😂😂😂
Can one suggest challenging the translation of 'speedily' to mean instead 'lively/enthusiastically' , ie not running hurriedly, but steadfastly, in it's non-immobile rendering?
I don't think "lively/enthusiastically" go with "steadfastly"
Being lively & enthusiastic is demarcated (given meaning) by there being an oppositional phase. So you would expect a waxing and waning cycle ... where as steadfast is oppositional to there being a cycle . And moving fast / hurriedly would be characteristics found in a lively disposition vs a slow methodical steadfastness .
So maybe you want to re-think what you meant to imply with the steadfast portion ?
But doesn't speedily just mean to come to the understanding quickly ?
So the teacher created a "Staples" button for the followers so to speak ?
Err IDK ... maybe I had i wrong ?
At 3:52, "this generation the prophecies WERE fulfilled". Tabor doesn't understand Biblical eschatology or the second coming. His knowledge is the same as a fundamentalist. He's got the second coming and the eschatological end of days WRONG. He's just another average pastor that doesn't understand the Hebraic mindset.
ANSWER to TABOR'S CONFUSION:
Jesus returned spiritually, "on the clouds of heaven", in 70 AD, Matthew 26, 64.
Many Christians reject the Jewishness of Jesus, because of Paul. "...and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ..." Philippians 3:8
@@xyz.9140 wrong
@@mihailgae-draghici4864 deut 32:8 cnt lie..
@@xyz.9140 '' deut 32:8 '' is 100% True! What worries you??
I’m right here and been “out” since 2/22/22. I suggest you contact me Mr. Tabor.
I'll contact you...is everything ok?
God bless,
I still believe Jesus rised from the dead and He is coming back fiscally with a glorious body . Is about faith . This world is a hot mess .
“This world is a mess” is a pagan Greek concept adopted by the church. Aristotle popularized this 350 years BCE.
The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob disagrees with you and Aristotle:
Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
@@Room-gf7vy Yes but man sinned and Earth was cursed and damned.
@@inzenjerduje9391 you just invented that it is not at all biblical.
When God calls something good he does not change his mind.
Numbers 23:19
“God is not a man, that He should lie; Neither the son of man, that He should change his mind. “
A man who sins (the Hebrew means “miss the mark”) does not damn the earth that God calls good or any other man.
Adam doing wrong cannot damn another man.
Ezekiel 18:20-23
20”The soul that sinneth, it shall die; the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father with him, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son with him; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21But if the wicked turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all My statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22None of his transgressions that he hath committed shall be remembered against him; for his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith Hashem your God; and not rather that he should return from his ways, and live?”
@@Room-gf7vy So Yahawashai(Jesus Christ ) will not destroy Earth in the end(few years from now)?
@@inzenjerduje9391 correct. The Jesus did not fulfill any messianic prophecies and that is why the “second coming” was invented. It is found nowhere in tanahk. The idea that a messiah is God is also nowhere in tanahk.
How can one compare the anointing of the Ruach HaKodesh on the incarnate Son of Man just after His tevilah on Chag Tirosh in 34 CE with that of mere anointing oil reserved specifically for human male priests and kings? That’s why the incarnate Yehoshu’a HaMashiach will return at the beginning of the third age in 5881 AM-immediately AFTER the Tribulation as He prophesied-to establish His Millennial Reign ON EARTH. But, the story doesn’t end there… #QuestionEverything
BTW, it was three literal yomim (15-17 Abib) after His crucifixion and burial on Pesach (14 Abib) in 36 CE-before the annual Sabbath which was the first day of Chag HaMatzot (15 Abib)-when He was resurrected as Lord of the weekly Sabbath on 18 Abib. You know nothing about Torah nor the Enochian calendar employed by the “sect” called THE WAY (Gr. tēn Hodon/Heb. HaDerech) mentioned throughout Acts as well as the sectarian manuscripts of the DSS. The Maccabees/Hasmoneans usurped the Levitical priesthood from the sons of Zadok, who considered Jerusalem and the Second Temple to be defiled. They founded Qumran in the desert wilderness of Judea (i.e., the prophesied “voices crying out in the wilderness” and true “wise mean of the east”). Yochanan went there to study; see Luke 1:80. The married members of this “sect” resided in Damascus. Where was Sha’ul going to persecute the men and women of THE WAY?
ALL modern churches and synagogues (as well as schools of “higher education”) are chock full of false traditions (embellishments not in Scripture), precepts of men (manufactured theology), and doctrines of demons (assimilated paganism) as was prophesied. Tabor is just another false teacher!
Do you want to get crucified? Because this is how you get crucified.
@@subcitizen2012 If you actually knew the Scriptures, then you’d know what my end game is… to be beheaded for Joshua the Anointed during the Tribulation so that I can partake in the first of two future resurrections and serve as a priest of the order of Malki-tsedeq during His Millennial Reign on Earth.
BTW, there was no Roman crucifixion… Joshua the Anointed was hung on a tree PER TORAH for the false crime of blasphemy. So, such a term means nothing to me… even figuratively.
Matthew 12:8 "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
9 Departing from there, He went into their synagogue. 10 And a man was there whose hand was withered. And they questioned Jesus (lit. Joshua), asking, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”-so that they might accuse Him. 11 And He said to them, “What man is there among you who has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand!” He stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other. 14 But the Pharisees went out and conspired against Him, as to how they might destroy Him. (NASB 1995)
John 19:4 Pilate came out again and said to them, “Behold, I am bringing Him out to you so that you may know that I find no guilt in Him.” 5 Jesus (lit. Joshua) then came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, “Behold, the Man!” 6 So when the chief priests and the officers saw Him, they cried out saying, “Crucify, crucify!” Pilate said to them, “Take Him yourselves and crucify Him, for I find no guilt in Him.” 7 The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God.” (NASB 1995)
Deuteronomy 21:22 “If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23 his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance." (NASB 1995)
Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”- 14 in order that in Christ Jesus (lit. Joshua) the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (NASB 1995)
#QuestionEverything
James, I accept that the term 'gathering in' IS used in biblical useage to refer to the gathering of the soul back to the Universal Spirit on High (or back to God); BUT the same term 'gathering in' is used in parables of Jesus in relation to gathering/garnering believers into the community as well; so could the useage in the documents also refer to the re-gathering of the community back after the scattering in physical life as well as souls into spiritual life? Indeed, the parallels in two meanings may have been a key understanding in setting the text down for remembering. It still follows the standard that there is one superficial understanding for those who 'do not hear/see', and a different and deeper one for those who do?
Look at the Hebrew Matthew - the kingdom parables - he went away on a long trip - not to pretend otherwise as Paul did.
Does anyone know if the area around the caves has been surveyed with ground penetrating radar?
Go there and make a thorough study yourself. They might have missed something.
What is he trying to prove or disprove??
There seems to be an inherent danger in connecting the Jewish writings with the later New Testament writings. The Christian teacher Paul probably had the most extensive formal Jewish training in the Torah than any of the disciples of Jesus BUT it is clear that his understanding of the deeper QBLH of the Torah (like most jews) was not complete or he would not have switched sects to the Jesus sect. It would seem Paul switched for egoic reasons as he would have been viewed as an intellectual powerhouse compared to the other members of this text.
LOL, I was reading that Torah bit you told us about and the researchers used psychedelic mushrooms to read it. LOL, what a good joke. Is it true that "religious" researchers are allowed to use magic mushrooms but the rest of us are not? Hypocrisy.
Maybe Joseph Smith REALLY DID read the "golden tablets"?!
So many fanatics commenting here...
God spoke to my right ear from Heaven above. My thoughts did not make my right ear drum tickle nor did my thoughts create a burning Spiderweb that did not burn 8.4.2015 when God spoke to me.
It is my birthday 3.11.
@eBrian when I heard God's voice it didn't sound like my own voice. He also taught me things I never thought about or new. Additionally I didn't think God would speak to me. You never know when. I asked God His name. He answered, Fundamentally E. I answered, energy of consciousness that suffuses everything. Every proton, neutron, electron, quark, spark of light and black hole. He answered, don't forget the science.
At 3:52, "this generation the prophecies WERE fulfilled". Tabor doesn't understand Biblical eschatology or the second coming. His knowledge is the same as a fundamentalist. He's got the second coming and the eschatological end of days WRONG. He's just another average pastor that doesn't understand the Hebraic mindset.
@@70AD-user45 there are many people who mis interpret the Bible. Everyday people ascend to Heaven. It is God that put Prophetic visions behind my eyes. 8 heard His voice 20 times in my 61 years. One of the smartest things He said, when you notice something there is a reason. Most times He said one sentence. 11.11 2015 morning. I lived in Honolulu, Nimitz highway. I woke that morning and God said, you are rain. I walked out to the balcony. Stretched my arms to the sky and said, it's time for a rainbow. Immediately a double rainbow appeared beside the building and reached out to the Pacific Ocean. I was astounded. 11.17.2015. Ewa aka Eve Beach early evening. I couldn't find a book reading so I sat under the stars alone. I asked God His name. He answered, Fundamentally E. I answered, energy of consciousness that suffuses Everything. Every proton, neutron, electron, quark, spark of light and black hole. He answered, don't forget the science. Then He asked me, what side of the blade are you on. I answered, on the side of the righteous my words are my sword. Then He showed me my ascension to Heaven in a beam of white light. And then my baby self beamed to earth in an egg of white light. Then He said, make Israel one. You are Anchor. Behind my eyes appeared my birth last name Wernett. A t spun around and made an Anchor. I didn't know what that meant. I asked people but no one knew. I Googled. It's the symbol of Christianity before the crucifix. The world is not ending. The first time God spoke to me was 8.4.2016 morning. I was getting ready to do a crossword puzzle in the newspaper behind my mother's house. There's a woodland preserve, a pond and a 8 foot hedge between the houses. I was sitting in the grass next to the hedge. God said, I'm sorry. You are the one. Take a leap. People have worked very hard. People earn what they learn. When you notice something there is a reason. Don't give anything away. In the hedge was a burning spiderweb that did not burn. I never saw anything like that before. When God said, don't give anything away He was testing my heart. Yeshu of Nazareth when he fed thousands with 2 fishes and 5 loaves they multiplied when the basket was passed. I went to Easter service alone 2016 and told no one. During service God spoke to my right ear from above. He said, where is your Mary Magdelene. I walked outside and immediately got a text asking where is your Mary Magdelene. I was stunned.
More to the point in practical terms: I think "jesus meek and mild" and being a dead messiah were, from a life-in-the-streets point of view a necessary marketing decision. Why? By at least 117 C.E. you I doubt you could SELL a warrior messiah (the traditional motif) because far too many had already in the last century and a quarter had been ending up on crosses and taking thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of their fellow Jews with them to the crosses, death in the mines or arena or simply lifelong slavery. Whether they were followers or not. The stomach for rebellion was seriously wounded by the 66 revolt, deeply soured by the Kitos war and retribution (115-117) and completely sick of by the time Bar-Kokhba's revolt was put down. Many of the revolt leaders messiahs, whether self proclaimed, claimed by the populace or just believed by their armies. And all of them brought devastation and misery to Judaism itself. Because: Just because you were a Jew not living in Judea in 66 you were still far from safe. Namely when a province revolted ethnic enclaves in Roman cities stood a very good chance of getting a visit from the "torch and pitchfork brigade." Mob violence against ethnicities for the actions of a far-flung province was common and often state sanctioned. The Gauls for example were frequent recipients of pogrom violence and mass death. The motif for a Jew to deny Judaism and/or start a new branch to avoid direct association was never higher in their history.
It’s surprising to me that Dr. Tabor seems to treat the biblical Mary and Joseph as historical figures and Jesus being born to them in 5 BCE as an historical event. Did I misinterpret what he said?
Jesus' historicity, while still debated, is consensus. It's the mythy bits that will forever remain a matter of faith.
70 ce - 1967 ce "The times of the Gentiles". Now what?
James Tabor I challenge any claim that Jesus is like Moses. I don't even understand how this comparison came into existence since the two are completely unlike each other
In what way?
@@yosiah1
LIFETIME:
Moses:
Assuming Hyksos and Israelites were the same, Moses entered the equation around 1400BCE during a period when the israelites were reduced to brutal slavery and the Egyptian Empire was one of the most powerful in the world. Raised in the royal household he was then divinely sent to the Pharoah, one of the most powerful people on the planet and someone who declared himself God.
After failing to convince the Pharoah to release the Israelites, divine acts eventually resulted in splitting the sea which formed the Israelite escape route.
After reaching a point of safety Moses then left his brother Aaron in charge of the israelites whilst he went to receive further divine instruction. THAT is when he received the 10 commandments. meanwhile the israelites went a bit nuts and forced aaron to build a pagan image that resulted in Moses experiencing a pretty impressive meltdown.
Anyway once Moses and the Israelites sorted themselves out they started on the long trek back to their ancestral homelands which were by now ruled by the canaanites. A military report resulted in the israelites rebelling which caused the, to suffer a divine punishment. For 40 years they wandered in the wilderness until the last of that generation finally died leaving the children to prepare for the next stage. Once they reached the Jordan river Moses had to bid the israelites farewell afterwhich they went on to establishe israelite rule after defeating various armies
Jesus:
According to the new testament God "made" a virgin girl Mary conceive she birthed Jesus in a stable in Judea, a minor but highly rebellious state under roman rule. Jesus grew up, claimed to be "son of god" and tried to teach the israelites. He was subsequently rejected by the israelites and crucified by the romans for his efforts.
Nothing is known about any law Jesus came to deliver, we only have "gospel according to XYZ", there is no equivalent to leviticus, so we're not really sure why Jesus was crucified other than possibly his "give onto caeser" commandment. The only other possible Jesus reference was by Roman historian Tacitus whose words suggested an anti-establishment rebel called Jesus was eventually caught and crucified by the Romans for various acts of terrorism (crucifixion was the standard roman punishment for acts of terrorism).
LEGACY:
Moses' work would establish the israelite kingdom that lasted until 500BCE when a persian attack finally destroyed jerusalem.
Jesus was rejected by the israelites but his words would eventually spread amongst the pagans of judea and then throughout the roman empire
That leaves us with the third scripture: The Quran (yes I know both jews and christians reject the Quran but jews reject the new testament and until the last few decades christians rejected the old testament so rejecting the Quran is irrelevant).
The Quranic story of Moses is broadly similar to the Biblical Moses whilst the only person closely to jesus is Isa Al-Masih. However the stories of jesus and isa diverge so wildly its difficult to justifiy claiming they are the same person. This is a particular problem for christians because multiple prophetic stories are mentioned in the Quran that are broadly similar to their biblical equivalents.
So with all that inmind...how is jesus in anyway similar to Moses?
@@az-wr1lb oh idk i didn't claim they were
I listened carefully and I have concluded that you have never met Jesus' I met him 40 years ago, and have enjoyed a supernatural relationship with him; even though my life for better or worse has mirrored Israel's! Some may understand this.
Depends on how you define GENERATION! I think Jeshua JUST means the genealogical tree of Israel and Jehuda.
If Jesus actually said it, and for his audience to hear it, it was probably how THEY defined a generation. Aka 40 years.
I'm sure you know, Dr. Tabor, that the term "40" means "a long long time." It is used repetitively throughout the Torah. It rained for forty days and forty nights. Moses was exiled in Midian for forty years. The people wandered in the wilderness for forty years. It is not literally forty years.
Maybe Jesus didn't know it because he wouldn't have said he'd be back before the generation passed, hence the forty years. Which it didn't say anyway, it was "about" forty per the jubilee numerology stuff. They were reaching to make sure it was in their time, like Jesus told them too. We can either be Jews and believe in forever, or follow Jesus and believe it's any second now. Any second now... still waiting... oh darn... hmm. Well, I guess we're stuck being Jews then.
Oh, you are so smart!
Do you call Jesus a false messiah
I call him the sheet wearing Jewish Zombie nailed on 2 pieces of wood
Two years ago the last thought on my mind would have been Jesus. All my life I hated Christians, especially when they woke me up Sunday mornings knocking on my door. But in April 2020 I was under heavy spiritual attack and I couldn't do anything against it. I've been trying all my life to fight stuff off and finally gave in. I gave my life to God and accepted Jesus as lord and savior.
That instant I felt chains breaking off of my wrists. I began pacing around my apartment and crying for 24 hours straight. I was sharing my love out to God and telling him how sorry I was. I went to bed and fell asleep for the first time in over ten years without sleeping pills. I slept like a baby it was wonderful.
Upon waking up I grabbed my vape pen and realized "I don't want to poison my body any more". WOW! The spirit of addiction to that nicotine was removed from my life! I also had a serious case of hemorrhoids which I was about to have surgery for, and they were gone! All healed up! I didn't understand what was going on! My mind was set free and I was constantly smiling and happy. I was compelled to tell everyone about Jesus everywhere I went. I couldn't shut up! It was an amazing experience!
You see Jesus is alive much as God is alive, in the spirit. You can't see him or touch him but he is there. And he loves you James. But as long as you preach this kind of word you are on a path straight to hell and you're taking others with you. God doesn't live in a book. He lives in the spirit. And as 1 John 2:14 says, the word of God lives in you. You need to get in touch with God in the supernatural realm. Get your nose out of the books for a little bit.
You really think you can just walk in and debunk an entire New Testament full of eye witnesses who saw Jesus alive after his resurrection? You think you can debunk the entire life of Saul the Jew who became Paul the Christian and began the early churches to the gentiles? Do you REALLY think you are going to accomplish that?
I pray for your soul James that you learn to close your eyes, open your heart and listen to the spiritual things in the world. Pray to God to show you the way out of that stinky hole you're in. God is love and without love you will never see him. I commend you for standing up for something you believe in but unfortunately if you stay on this path, you are going to wind up in a lake of fire in Hell for eternity. And that's not what what want for you.
I will pray for you. God bless.
What an active and impressionable imagination.
If it's your psychedelic experience or the word of God, I'm afraid God gets my vote every time.
Don't you find it surprising that none of those supposed eye witnesses wrote anything about miraculous events when they happened. In fact, as almost all scholars now believe, the gospel stories (which all contradict each other) were concocted decades later by people who never met or knew Jesus.
I wish you good health - open the Hebrew bible some time, you know - the one Jewish Jesus read and adhered to, you may be in for a few surprises
Amazing what the wrong medication does....🤔
@@popeyedish All my life I've never had faith in medications. I don't even take Advil. I don't want to poison my body with foreign chemicals. You people are insanely rude and judgemental. When this happened to me I didn't even understand what was going on. I came to the logical conclusion it had to be God as nothing else made sense. I pray you one day experience the true power and love of God.
@@rebornasdavid god of the gaps..dunno what it was ergo God...🤔
Which ones have come back?
General MacArthur and Arnold Strong.
Didn’t Caesar anoint himself when he was in Egypt 🇪🇬? He had a discourse in a lighthouse, they made a movie 🎥 about it.. every once in a while the people have a leader. There is always a snake 🐍. Good and evil.
Alpha and Omega
Adam and Eve were told they can partake of any tree except the one that has knowledge of good and evil - so we know two things:
1) They had consciousness prior to partaking the forbidden fruit - because they understood what they were told to avoid.
2) They were allowed to obtain knowledge - because the other trees did not bare fruit that contained the mixture of lies and truth.
They were (basically) warned to avoid anything that causes delusion - so we know the creator genuinely cares for His creation.
After Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit: they realised they were naked - which means they became aware they have a defiant attitude toward the creator (with a sense of vulnerability that took effect) and, thus, felt shame.
This caused consciousness, present in man, to become corrupt and allowed him to exploit the opportunity to assert dominion over others he considers inferior.
This is why God told Eve, "Your desire shall be to your husband and he shall 'rule' over you."
She was, after all, the weaker vessel - so she would become subject to the misogynistic attitude of those lacking in understanding.
Therefore, it is attitude that has been evolving or devolving through the ages: and consciousness, being a composite of attitude, has forged institutions that have galvanized class within hierarchical structure.
This situation was exasperated by a class of angels called "the Watchers" who left their eternal estate to found early civilization and establish religions that exalt their own interests.
These interests include the liberation of lust - where they exist as a demonic possession of those who embrace the assertion of authority over others.
Their religions (including paganised Christianity) depend upon a faith in the mystery, rather than Yahshua, to draw the unsuspecting into the delusion of thinking hierarchy is a vital component of civilization.
For this reason: secular society cannot function without religion: and, as you should have guessed by now, religion is not sanctioned by the creator - so we know civilization, past and present, bares no resemblance to the (prophesied) Kingdom of Heaven.
Yahshua told us not to get angry with another nor lust upon another - because these (attitudes), being sin in the heart, are the manifestation of one's assertion of authority over others.
...and sin (delusion) is when a person seeks to justify wicked behaviour as righteous.
Yahshua showed us the eternal estate is available to those who practice humility - which is to say: the body of flesh, we have, allows us to develop a faith that facilitates a return to perfection.
The correct attitude will facilitate greater understanding: and this can adjust conscious awareness - but salvation comes to those who acknowledge the authority of Yahshua (in faith).
He told us to love one another as He loved us - so the Father in Heaven can see He loves the Father.
Bless 💖 the Name
The Three Pillars
www.scribd.com/document/498419768/The-Three-Pillars
Oh Dear!! You're lost in the weeds my friend
Original sin it's a myth. Invented by Paul
You're gonna need to toggle your factory reset brother.
Get a life.
Were Helenized rabbis the wicked ones?
Our esteemed professor certainly doesn’t waste much money on clothes ! Never seen him wear anything but a T shirt. Maybe he’s always on his way to or from an archaeological dig ...
Or he holds intellectual to a much higher standard than superficially accepted fashion, apparently the jesus guy dressed in very simple and humble clothing , food for thought 🤔
LOVE
The picture shows naked men??
"In the first semester [of my class on Christian origins] I would watch 'I, Claudius' and the HBO series 'Rome'." Tells you all you need to know about James Tabor and how seriously to take him.
Was he your tutor?
Your two sentences tell me absolutely EVERYTHING I would ever be able to know about you and if I should try to take you seriously. Cuz that's how it works.
You would watch an HBO series? Did you make the series? Who did the special series?
I'm supposes to trust and believe HBO?
The Teacher is Yeshua, student of Joshua ben Perachiah! Jesus is 100
Before of AD.
Unless a church or religion is started That is based on common sense, Other religions based on absurdities will continue to Flourish worldwide
How many Messiah's did the Jews expect?
There is so much misunderstanding here I don't even know where to start.
Without ignoring passages, altering punctuation, rearranging scripture, relying on obscure extra-biblical apostates, or imaginary calendar keeping, a plain reading of Dan 9:25, 26 shows that from Artaxerxes I decree to Ezra to take all the volunteers he wanted and return with them to Judah and Jerusalem, and further giving Ezra authority over the region and substantial funds, wasn't just a fact finding trip - it was to restore Jerusalem. From which event, simple addition of 69 weeks of years yields the baptism ("anointing") of Jesus Christ in A.D. 26, all consistent with history and His age, length of ministry and crucifixion ("cutting off") in A.D. 30, the only year in which the gospel accounts of passion week can be harmonized and reconciled with calendars. Daniel 9:25, 26 is in fact fulfilled Messianic prophecy.
if Daniel was written in the 2nd century B.C., that does not explain the supernatural accuracy of Daniel 9's prophecy of the Messiah and it's fulfilment 200 years later by Jesus of Nazareth. If Daniel foretold (in 2nd c. B.C.) that 483 years from a (earlier) decree by Artaxerxes I that the Messiah would appear and be cutoff, and since in A.D. 26 the Messiah in fact appeared 483 years from Artaxerxes I decree in 458 B.C., then, what exactly was "false"? Even if Daniel was written 2nd c. B.C., the appearance of Jesus the Messiah was still accurately foretold 150-200 years in advance, and no amount of dismissive 'vaticinium ex eventu' hand waving can change the irrefutability that Daniel 9 remains authentic prophecy, exactly as written.
The historical and literary evidence all point to Daniel's authentic authorship by someone living in the Babylonian courts in 6th century B.C.
Here's the answer:
ruclips.net/video/SjKLYEo2AMk/видео.html
Jesus tells His disciplines in the verses leading up to Luke 21 they will be persecuted and killed for His sake. Then He says: “They [the Jews] will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken as prisoners to all nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” Did this happen? Yes, 40 years after Jesus was crucified the Temple was destroyed and the Jewish diaspora began. In 1967, following the establishment of Israel in 1948 and the Six Day war, the Jews regained Israel. The words of Jesus were fulfilled, no way around it. Furthermore, in verse 25 Jesus says: “On the Earth nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.” Interesting how, in the years since Israel regained Jerusalem, the world’s nations have been in anguish and perplexed over the rising levels of our roaring seas and climate change. If Jesus was a false prophet He sure was good at getting future predictions spot on correct. Maybe that’s just another coincidence surrounding Him, too.
i would call John the baptist as the messiah from aaron since he is a levite and Yeshua is from from israel.
Do you believe the Qumran community was the ousted Zadokite priests that should have been in the temple?
No.
@@busterbiloxi3833 your wrong
48:24 I wonder if the christian community living in the mid-60s would know about this text. If Mark was written in the 60s or 70s, they almost certainly wouldn't have access to mark... But is it reasonable to assume that they would have had access to this speech of Jesus? (Or, maybe Mark placed the speech in Jesus' mouth right around the time the Jerusalem and the temple were being destroyed?)
You arestarting with the hypothesis that prophecy is not possible .Start with the hypothesis that it is and see where that takes you
@@ptk8451 I said "maybe." I acknowledged that Jesus may have said this.
The believers knew the christology and creed by knowing, utterance, and the hymns before it was given in writing in the Gospels.
Paul knew it from his time of conversion and his time alone in the wilderness communing with Christs Spirit.
He made a few trips up to Jerusalem to find out what Peter, James, and John had to say.
He stayed with them and discussed with them, he gave his gospel message and they had nothing to add.
He tells us in first Corinthians.
So he didn't need to read Mark. He didn't need to read any of their written words later penned and officially released in Greek as the Gospels.
Christ gave him even more.
That's why he wrote and had his secretary type guy write, most of what is in the New testament.
Before being blinded by Christ, he wasn't a believer, he was a Pharisee and a persecutor, even a killer of Christians, or "followers of the Way".