Bart Ehrman Exposes New Testament Errors
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- Опубликовано: 15 июн 2023
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This clip is taken from a forthcoming episode of Within Reason with Bart Ehrman.
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Favorite guest so far
More Bart Ehrman, please! He's one of my favorite people to listen to.
A fellow Chapel Hill-ian!
He has his own youtube series. He has a new episode every week
While I appreciate some of the information from this this effort, the exchange doesn’t whet one’s appetite for “nothing but the truth, the whole truth” here on this issue. Both are not stretching their horizons seriously enough to gain a satisfactory answer. It’s apparent neither have tapped into videos, books, commentaries, and a circuit of appearances and debates by the following: Rabbi Tovia Singer (Tanakh Talk, Let’s Get Biblical, Outreach Judaism); Rabbi Michael Skobac (Jews for Judaism, A Rabbi Cross-Examines Christianity); and Rabbi Yisroel C. Blumenthal (1000 Verses a project of Judaism Resources). My observation is those three (so far in my findings on my journey) provide a Hebrew/Jewish Bible (Tanakh) scriptural base for citation in bolstering their informative material.
@@deevine1818 crap
@@zapkvr0101 yup, I know. I'll take all I can get! :)
This is great, Alex. Thanks for posting shorter clips from the whole podcast.
I'm so excited for the full episode. Great job getting Dr. Ehrman on the podcast.
It's not that hard to get him on a podcast. He has lectures & books to promote.
Loving the consistent uploads❤
Looking forward to the full episode!
YES!! I've been hoping you two would collab at some point!!
I specifically asked for this interview a month back ❤❤❤❤Thanks
I always enjoy listening to Bart Ehrman. Thanks Alex.
Within Reason may be my favorite podcast these days. Itll continue to get the recognition it deserves and honestly i think you may reach 1M subs within the next 12 months. I will stand by that prediction
I would like to express my gratitude, Alex, for this interview.
What a stimulating, intellectual conversation. Thank you, gentlemen.
It's crazy how many core Christian beliefs seem to be the results of word play or translation errors. The diversity of early Christianity is an incredibly interesting topic that Bart has covered very well elsewhere.
It was about the first book no photo copiers most people couldn't read waiting would have not helped as without the Christian culture no photo copiers would exist etc
@@davidevans3223 Photocopiers in their current form may not have existed but the printing press would have, it was invented in China.
As for photocopiers though, they came from scientific advancement in Europe. And do you know what culture caused the scientific explosion in Europe? It wasn't Christianity, it was the printing press as well as Graeco-Roman scripts being obtained in Europe because of trade between the Islamic Caliphates and European countries. Christianity had nothing to do with it. In fact, scientific advancement in Europe had halted once Christianity became the dominant religion, and the churches continued to oppress and prevent scientific progress long after scientific advancement was restarted by Graeco-Roman culture.
@@moth5799 you're wrong the church didn't hold anything back lot's of older advanced civilisations didn't make it pyramids around the world etc the simple fact is no bible no free world and free thinking advanced science cause and effect or determinism Google it it's not my opinion it's science.
As for China they stayed primative the bible was copied by hand buy the few who could write
@@moth5799 China was later than the bible
@@jaraman1267 Bi Sheng made the first progress towards creating a printing press in the late 10th / early 11th century. Wang Chen made further advancements in the late 13th century and created what could recognisably be called a printing press, along with the world's first mass produced book. Gutenberg's contributions were very important too, yes, and made the printing press even better. But it was not "purely a Christian invention". Christianity had nothing to do with it. Gutenberg was only able to create such an amazing machine because of Graeco-Roman values, not the primitive, Jewish values that destroy society.
Europe is built off *Rome.* We were the greatest continent in the world because of Rome until Christianity destroyed it. America is the same. It became the greatest nation to ever grace this earth through the Graeco-Roman values of the founding fathers. What is the architecture of the Capitol and the White House based off? Not gothic churches, but *Roman* architecture. Christianity is a disease and we need a strong leader to re-implement Nero's policies so that we can avoid the defeat that Rome faced.
Bart!! Awesome combo of thinkers, thanks Alex!! I’ve been a fan of Bart for a long time and he has answered many questions for me!
Oh man I can't wait for the full podcast
Thanks Alex and Bart - excellent video.
I just finished this guys great courses plus and immediately started his book on heaven and hell. I’m 90% of the way through it and you happened to interview him. Very interesting perspective given his personal experience.
You're on a roll lately Alex! AND I LOVE IT! Blessings.
Who from?
Hell yeah I’ve been wanting to hear this!
Plz keep posting regularly !!
We love Bart! Looking forward to this episode.
To Bart Ehrman's credit he does give existing explanations regarding his Matthew example. To my understanding, which has also been determined by scholars, Matthew was writing to Jews, which is obvious due to the over arching saying, "to fulfill what was written." Matthew is also using (sparingly) word play that was part of 1st century Judah, which to Bart's credit he just explained. By his own explanation it does not mean that it is an error, unless you have an agenda of your own. There is a tendency to complicate simple things. The overwhelming quotes of Matthew saying, "to fulfill what was written" are easily found in the OT. This example is a exception rather than the rule. Why not say that? Why try to build a tower who's foundation is an exception, which by the way has an very viable explanation?
One thing I find interesting about Bart Ehrman are his credentials. Beginning with his story that he was a saved fundamentalist Christian who went to academia so that he could know the "inerrant" word of God in its original language and lost his faith. As I hear Bart (in my opinion) he lost it because he keep the fundamentalist "word for word literal" meaning of the Greek. I do not worship at the altar of academia. Bob Dylan's lyric comes to mind:
Twenty years of schoolin' and they put you on the day shift.
Look out kid, you're gonna get hit
By losers, cheaters, six-time users
Hanging 'round the theaters
Girl by the whirlpool's looking for a new fool
Don't follow leaders, a-watch the parking meters
For me, anyone who's credentials begin with "I used to be, but now I'm not" places self-importance or self magnification on the person rather than the subject. Who cares if you used to be? Who are you? Jesus, now there's a person worth listening to, He changed the world in an unfathomable way. A change that is so profound that for some, it becomes easier to believe that Jesus didn't exist, in spite of the fact that we are living in that change. A change that manifested, in order to "fulfill what was written." Unto such people, the saying is true, "like father like son" meaning they do the same to Jesus as they did to his Father.
I do not believe or disbelieve because of Bart Ehrman. His lack of faith has no bearing on the subject, except to fulfill what was written. He has his 20 years of schooling and he deserves the "day shift." BTAIM, he seems to have vestigial fundamental tendencies, that is, he is taking any and all original greek, according to its inerrant literal meaning. As if no one ever used word play. This in spite if the fact that the Bible is full of metaphor and word play.
Solid comment. I agree. I feel like this video is an echo chamber, because it amplifies the “errors” that really aren’t errors and makes them seem like Christianity is silly. Like yeah… I guess all of us Christian’s are just idiots! Lol.
@@jadehart2257 Christianity is silly, and errors are errors. But it's easier to attack Ehrman than it is to defend contradictory nonsense, which is why you two clowns have targeted Ehrman. And the fact that Ehrman went to seminary as an evangelical Christian instead of as an atheist with confirmation bias is relevant to anybody who is isn't a Christian apologist looking to discredit him.
@@jadehart2257 You are correct. One thing I have noticed that is used against us, is the constant attempt to shame us into looking like we have no brains.
They love to worship at the altar of academia. ln spite of the fact that Bart, a renowned scholar, says that Jesus is a real historical person, there are myriads of other so called Phd scholars that say Jesus is a myth or made up by the Romans. What is it? They can't agree. Then they have the gall to point out how many denominations there are. Too much irony.
Thanks for reading my comment.
There is a huge difference between Nazarite and Nazarene. 😂 the first comes from the oath, the second comes from a location and it has also nothing to with the Hebrew word of branch. It has also no connection to the word in pslam 22 6. Isaiah 11 1 also doesnt say he will be called like that. The author says NAZARENE. There is no such prophecy at all
And the unknown author did not write for Jews but for Gentiles. Jewish Christians had their own gospel in Hebrew or Aramaic. And simple Jews spoke Aramaic. The Scripture was read in Hebrew. The author even explained the Reader the meaning of "Eli eli". You don't have to explain a Jew his own language. But you have to explain it to a Gentile.
Heck yes! Two of my favorite intellectuals.
FASCINNATING about the Isaiah passage! Just WOW! Thanks.
Bart Ehrman is a BEAST! Thank you so much for bring him to the show!
He is a beast indeed.
A nefarious beast.
@@voxpopuli8132is he lying?
@@eprd313 he is wrong.
@@voxpopuli8132 what lie did he say? It's not a difficult question.
@@eprd313 He is dead wrong when he says, "if they meant virgin, they would have used bethulah instead of almah" , for bethulah at that time could also mean simply "young girl", it only attained the exclusive meaning "virgin" hundreds of years later. This shows how utterly ignorant he is without any credibility as an old testament scholar whatsoever.
BTW, what actually happened here is that the translators of the Greek Septuagint text, who were jewish learned elders themselves, far before christianity ever existed knew what "almah" wanted to convey, that is why they translated it as "parthenos" (virgin). that is the most natural and simplest explanation.
He is also dead wrong when he says "someone made something up" immediately after say "yeah its a mistranslation". making something up usually involves the intention to deceive.
Yes! Love Ehrman, love Alex, this is going to be awesome!
dw02 But, even if very ancient, even the original texts, could be recovered or reconstructed, the ambiguity of the definitive text would not be at an end.Even though many historical questions would be answered, our interest in the history of the text would not cease. Theologically, there would be no resolution of the central problem.the heart of the matter is that the definitive text is not essential to Christianity,bc the presence of the Spirit is not limited to the inspiration of the written word.We have already approached this from the point of view of a false distinction between Scripture and tradition.Examining it in the present context, one is struck by the fact that a belief in single authoritative texts accords to the Spirit a large role in the formation of Scripture, and almost none at all in the growth of th
they will open the new elevated rail here in Oahu june 30
YES I've been hoping this episode would exist for a long time now! Can't wait!
I can't wait to hear more
Bart Ehrman is amazing.
One thing here got under my skin a little. At around 7:05 you say "the New Testament is written in Greek, the Old Testament is written in Hebrew, which means that the New Testament writers were reading a Greek translation of the Old Testament when they wrote the New Testament."
Maybe they were reading a Greek translation. Seems likely since the statement goes uncorrected. But it's certainly possible that they were fluent in both Greek and Hebrew, just like the guy sitting across from you, and didn't need a Greek translation of the Old Testament.
The New Testament was written in Hebrew and translated into Greek, and the Jewish historian Josephus states in his book that writing or learning Greek was an abomination for a Hebrew.
@@That_one_introvert. Some of the books were, not all of ‘em. Some were written in Greek.
But it’s idiotic to think that John (a Jew!) was not fluent in Hebrew and was reading the Old Testament in Greek! 😂 It’s more than obvious he was fluent in both, as he wrote his Gospel in perfect Greek! And don’t even start about his Gospel been written by someone else, 300 years later or some similar rubbish …
Erhman is a plain eejit.
ALL were written in Greek@@danielculpepper9258
I got “saved” largely by reading Strobel’s “Case For Christ” in highschool (2002), and my confidence in the gospels and Christianity grew from reading other apologetic works from CS Lewis, McDowell, GK Chesterton, Alister McGrath, Habermas, etc.
Over the following decade, I started to pile up more questions than answers when it came to my faith, due to a growing understanding of philosophy, science, and history, but it wasn’t really until I read Ehrman’s “Forged” and “How Jesus Became God” that I considered myself truly unable to believe anymore.
Seek and you shall find. Bart does not offer answers, only confusion, scepticism and lack of wisdom.
@@Colthrone Bart offers more answers than any fundamentalist scholars do. He looks at the bible through a historical lens, not a rose tinted one.
@@Colthrone Hah! Oh the irony.
@@moth5799 He offers answers through a historical lens and seemingly ONLY through a historical lens, then proceeds to fill in the inevitable resulting gaps with confusion, scepticism and lack of wisdom. The Bible must be looked at comprehensively through the multiple necessary lenses (Eph. 3:10, 3:18-20), the most important of these being revelation from God himself.
@@ColthroneSo....historical and rational ignorance then. You're literally saying this whole christian god thing doesn't work unless you turn a blind eye to historical evidence and layer on your mind a healthy dose of emotional pleading and self-delusion.
I mean....you're absolutely correct. It's just not the flex you think it is.
Great list! Since I have limited time to visit parks these channels keep myself and I’m sure many like me connected to the enthusiasts community. Coaster Dash is one of my personal favorites and I also love Parks Bros and was curious if you watch much from them? The Ranked, Rated, Reviewed videos are amazing.
My favorite New Testament scholar! It’s always a pleasure to listen to Dr. Ehrman.
You have to respect his great knowledge of the Hebrew and Greek texts. Ehrman doesn't speak to simply reiterate his own convictions/opinion. Instead, he comes with a massive, life-long immersion (he quotes chapter and verse from memory!) in the comparative Biblical writings. He then makes a scholarly contrast of the nuances of these writings relevant to essential religious concepts. That's why I pay attention to what he is saying.
This just blew my mind open! WOW! Thank you!!! I was lied to in Catholic school. Just read those passages and yeh, it makes way more sense. I was given extra information to fill in their blanks from the priests. Thank you for this!
Congrats on the rebrand!
Excellent content as always
Can’t lie, this actually encouraged my faith 😂
Ha ha I just realized why Bart is doing this interview in person with you. For anyone who watches or listens to Bart's "Misquoting Jesus" podcast, you will know he is vacationing in the UK with his wife and her family over the summer. Looking forward to the full interview!
indeed , had dinner with him and 6 others last week. He's really engaging/learned.
Thank you
looking forward to this ome
This relates to my favorite challenge for Christians: Read or skim through Matthew. Every time it says something like, "this was done to fulfill what was said by the prophets", go back to the Old Testament and read the original passage, in it's full context. It's guaranteed to make any fundamentalist _very_ uncomfortable, at the very least.
No, it does not make us uncomfortable. Prophecies has to be very vague and unclear to keep the outsiders in blindness. Jews for example, cannot believe Jesus is their Messiah because the prophecies about Him are that vague and unclear, yet every born-again Christian knows to the core of their being that those prophecies are about Jesus. This is how it has to be.
@@nikokapanen82 "Knowing to the core" is not evidence. It is pretending to know something you don't know.
@@MaisyDaisy24
When God reveals Himself to you with such clarity, to the core of your being, so that after the incident you are less certain that your own parents existed than the fact that God exists.
@@nikokapanen82If only claiming it would make it so....
@sharpienate Keep denying the existence of God. You want your evidence? Fine then. Wait for it, you will see it :)
Have you considered having Tom Holland (historian) on the podcast? I would love to watch that!
he did spider man right?!
@@armandooliveira3712yes, and also a famous historian
can one of them start using their middle initial to avoid confusion? (assuming either one of them has a middle name)
He wrote Psycho 2😂
About time you had Bart on
good 1!
An important thing to consider is there were a number of prophesies that ancient Jewish people believed in, but were not recorded in scriptural records. Rather, we know about these obscure prophecies because of targums. For example: Jews believed that when the Messiah was to come, one of the signs is that the mana would return. So, when Jesus multiplies the bread in John chapter 6, the people and Jesus talk about the mana sent from heaven, but it seems out of place unless we know about this prophesy that doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible. There are other prophecies too--like the blood of the Messiah falling on Adam's skull bringing Adam back to life. The reason Golgotha is called "The place of the skull" is because Jews thought that Adam's skull was buried there. So, when Jesus is crucified on Golgotha, you'll see in Orthodox Christian crucifixion iconography a skull at the base of the cross with some of Jesus' blood dripping on it. Orthodox Christianity is the original Christianity of the middle east, so it is not surprising lot of this information has been preserved in middle eastern Christian tradition, even though it has been lost in the west. A good example of a non-fundamentalist Christian worldview.
As a side note, ancient commentators mentioned that it was either Matthew or Mark (I forget which one) that the events that took place were considered true events (by the author and Christians), but they were written out of order, and arrange in a purposeful way to make a certain point to its intended audience. This was even known by the Christian audience of that time, who were not necessarily bothered, or required a real time, chronological account of the events.
I appreciate the information because I was not aware of some of the things you mentioned. I'm a Christian believer in Florida.
God bless....
@@johnbrzykcy3076 You're welcome, and I appreciate that people are taking the time to read my comments. As an Orthodox Christian myself, I find it kind of hard to get people to listen to me. I hear all kinds of speculation, debates, and discussions but there are so many other pieces that are known outside of the normal discourse that are really relevant to the conversation. Even here in this discussion they speculate about Jesus being called a Nazarene. The thing we don't understand about names and places, is that there is often specific meanings to those names. For example: Bethlehem in Arabic is Bayt La-hiem, which either means (literally) House of Bread, or House of Meat (depending on the translation, but both are equally true translations). My guess (because I'm not fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Arabic) is that Nazareth has a name-meaning associated with the Messiah that is not obvious to us English speakers. Another good example is the "Show bread" mentioned from time to time in the temple. The name 'show bread' is actually 'Bread of the Face' in the original Hebrew. It has a much deeper theological meaning that is lost, because Moses would break bread and offer it as a sacrifice to God, which has its connection in the later interpretations of the Last Supper and the Eucharist/Communion practices of early Christians.
@@danielcripe25 Thanks again for response. I actually appreciate the Orthodox Christianity although I know little about it.
And I agree with you that many names and places that are mentioned in religious texts ( Judaism and Christianity etc ) probably did have specific meanings in the Ancient Near East which we are unaware of today.
I tried to study biblical Greek but understanding it alluded me. I think language and culture often hold the key to understanding certain phrases and words.
Peace of God to you..
More such interviews with Bart and others, please! 😁👍
Dr. Ehrman, as an ex-protestant, is a historian that takes the sola scriptura doctrine to its ultimate scholar and rational consequence, and that's why I like him. He's saying something very similar that Catholics have been saying for millenia: the Gospels are not the ONLY source for devotion.
Sola scriptura only makes sense if you trust the people who have kept and copied the scripture for a millennium before protestantism was formed. That is, you kinda have to worship the church too.
I felt relieved to hear Bart Erhman talk about the idea of the bible being completely accurate and literal being a weird modern phenomenon. I still go to church but the sermons are hard to get through sometimes. Especially when the pastor is talking about events and stories from the bible as if they actually happened and the people in the bible stories are actually real. And it just comes across as crazy to me.
" we don't have the original, we have copies of copies of copies made centuries later. These copies contain numerous errors. 1000s of mistakes, 10s of thousand mistakes hundred of thousands of mistakes."
~Bart Ehrman.
"If God had the power to give us his word of salvation, why didn't he have the power to preserve his word?"
~Bart Ehrman.
So you basically go to Church for the "community" aspect of it?
@@elmo4672 yeah pretty much. I go maybe once a month, I'm in a men's group that plays basketball on Mondays, and I join when they do community service stuff. Maybe I'll find a more secular outlet for that stuff but I'm happy where I'm at for now.
@@jahcode6132 Ah I see.. are the people in the Church aware of your difference in stance/beliefs? Hope you're not endlessly proselytized in that case.
@@elmo4672 I'm in a similar boat as @jahcode6132. One can be a Christian without subscribing to all the faith claims. There's even a term for it -- Liberal Christianity. Think of it as people who believe in God and are drawn to the ethical teachings of Jesus. Community can be a strong reason as well.
Bart said Isaiah 9 but he meant Isaiah 11. Nevertheless, he left out that "Nazareth" is named after Isaiah 11 and was founded by settlers from Judea (David territory) and this is why Matthew makes the connection. It's not a "misunderstanding," but a recognition that the town's name is rooted in that very Isaianic text. Please Bart, give the whole story!
He'd lose money if he did that
This. In labouring to prove an inaccuracy in the gospel, Bart ignores the significance of the town's name itself.
@@seanedgar9681 It is disappointing to the extent that I'm thinking about making a video on this issue.
There was no Nazareth in the first century. It's a fictional town that was created long after Jesus
@@arriuscalpurniuspiso That was the opinion of scholarship like 100 years ago. No one believes that now, including Ehrman.
Fascinating
Yo I thought ol' BE was in the Galapagos first Emma Thorne and now my second favorite AOC? I'm getting Bart content all the time, what a treat!
Bart has enormous hands.
And a brain to match
The Gospels are damned if they're too similar and damned if they're too unique. If they're too similar, skeptics say the writers are just copying each other and are therefore not independent. If they're too unique, then skeptics say that their claims can't be corroborated and thus they must've been making things up.
its not that hard to write something with the same facts from a different perspective
@@still_functional I agree. The 4 Gospels do appear to have different perspectives.
It would all have been so much easier if we had just followed Marion's canon 😂. Then surely every atheist believer would become a Christian because there are no more contradictions 😊.
@@still_functionalDifferent perspectives don't create different facts. You may not have all the same facts from different perspectives, but different perspectives doesn't mean two contradictory accounts of the same event can both be true.
@@Don-md6wn that's exactly what i'm saying lol
Great seeing Bart here
Didn't get the link onscreen while mobile, will seek.
Alex and Bart, same show. You’re making me believe there is a god….😂😂
This will blow your mind : someone came up with the whole thing.
Thats just not true, no biblical scholar including Bart Ehrman would say that. Yes some things are made up but not all of it
@@qwertyvypez of course it’s made up. It’s stories, myth. At best a few sections of it may be rooted in some historical truth but with the largest portion of PR sprinkled over them for good measure. Various people came up with it over periods of time, it didn’t just beam down from the heavens - the idea that it did is nonsense.
This will blow your mind: for the field of study that doesn't matter. It's about who came up with it at which time for which reason. And that is the interesting part of it.
@@qwertyvypez yeah, something is accurate because there are historical reference
Certainly the part of resurrection or the virgin mary is completely made up
Some parts aren't made up, for example (some of) the accounts of the Persian kings are accurate (though things like "Darius the Mede" likely aren't)
1. The Hebrew word is (Nazer) which means branch. Which was what the messianic king was referred too (Zechariah 3; 6; Isaiah 11:1-3; Jeremiah 23:1-6). Pretty simple when you know Hebrew Bart.
Right!
5:05 Am I the only one kinda weirded by how big Ehrman's hands look, like when he's talking and the palms are facing us? Now you can't unsee it haha
the fandom of this fantasy franchise is quite passionate so they usually don't like to hear about these plot errors 😶
I wanna see this guy in a debate against William Lane Craig.
I think they actually did one. I forgot on which channel though.
@@MrSeedi76 It was an interesting debate, since I agreed with each one's criticisms of the other.
My 2 heros in one video
I think it would be really good if a cartoon version of Bart Ehrman visits the Simpsons on their show. . He could even go to that church where they all fall asleep listening to sermons about hellfire. You could also have him talking with Homer's Christian neighbour
Great discussion
Bart Ehrman is a great mind, a genius. Love him.
I think Bart Ehrman made everything up 😂 I will believe Bart if he shows me his tickets from the Time Machine.
I love to see people so certain, about things you could never be certain about.
Actually everything he writes and talks about is based on real, concrete evidence. Evidence, something many people either do not understand or do not care about if it contradicts their personal superstitious beliefs.
Like christians?
@@eprd313 Yes, actually. Exactly like Christians. But we Christians admit to having faith, not certainty. We look at all available evidence, including our own experiences, then we place our faith in the probability of that evidence being true. This is exactly how a court of law works. A judge and jury are not present when a crime is committed. They look at the presented evidence and from that they make a decision. The judge and jury can't be certain of anything because they weren't there during the offence taking place. But they don't need to be certain. They just need to believe beyond reasonable doubt. This is the Christian way. Look at evidence for Jesus' teaching and his resurrection and base your faith on that. Certainty is not our way. Faith in the evidence of Christ is.
The OT references scriptures that no longer exist so it's perfectly possible that Matthew was referring to a scripture that never made it into the OT. He never mentioned a particular prophet so he was referring to many prophets.
Is there a full interview for this clip?
One key thing that I don't think is stressed enough in this interview is that the problem with where Matthew takes the "virgin birth prophecy" from does not mean that he took the story from the OT and put it in his gospe. In my opinion it is all more likely that Mathew heard stories about Mary's alleged virgin birth or he thought that it's a fitting birth for a son of a God and then he "found" a passage in the OT that would prove his narrative right. In other words, I think he only "found" the prophecy in the OT once he had an idea about the birth narrative in his head.
It may not have even been his own invention. We're told in the Gospels that Jesus himself, after his resurrection, showed his followers the passages in the Old Testament allegedly dealing with his death and resurrection. Even if Jesus himself didn't actually do that (which of course would require him to have actually risen from the dead), I think many of these reinterpretations of the Old Testament happened very early on as the early Christians were trying to figure out why this happened to the person they thought was the Messiah. Many of these explanations were probably circling in oral traditions before Matthew was written, though he may have come up with some of his own too, of course.
You mean a human performed some post hoc rationalization about an irrational belief they felt emotionally and culturally tied to?! Shocking....
Corruption because Gentiles had no clue about the Ot
My first year in the seminary I learned that the New Testament gospels weren't written first hand & the earliest written document maybe 70 years later. If you just Google bible contradictions it's an eye opener not to mention God acts like a jealous crazy father. Starting with Genesis 1 & 2 they contradict each other. Needless to say my faith was broken based on my first seminary scripture history class 🙄
It is to your credit that scripture history class made you think. That is an unfortunately rare response.
Most mainstream historians agree that the earliest new testament writings were Paul's letters and they were not written 70 years later.
The important date is 70 CE because that's when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed. Since the gospels predict that, scholars think they must be written after that date. This is however only inferred from the text. There is no reason to think this theory is valid since the gospels don't seem to have any real life knowledge of how the temple was destroyed or any other details about the war. Another explanation is that it's just the usual warning prophecy and it's pure coincidence. There is no "proof" either way when the gospels were written. What people fail to understand is that it's all just interpretations of the texts.
There are parts of new testament "prophecy" that make absolutely no sense if they were "invented" after the fact to make it seem it was real "predictions" like the claim that Jesus will return in the lifetime of the apostles and "before they finished preaching to all cities in Israel" the "kingdom of God" will arrive when in fact the Christian community fled from Jerusalem before these things even happened.
That's why Billy Graham wouldn't join his friend and fellow evangelist Charles Templeton at Princeton Seminary. He was afraid of what he might read and there was too much money and fame ahead of him as an evangelist.
@@Don-md6wnor most goes to study it. Find the truth and then come out lying.
@@mooshei8165 I agree. I'd be very surprised if more than half of pastors who have attended a seminary and studied the Bible are actually believers. I think it's a profession to most of them, and it attracts people with big egos who like to be entertainers and authority figures.
Fantastic
Is the nazar shoot/root thing from Isaiah 11:1, not 9:1? I cant find anything about roots in 9:1.
I've always understood the Nazarine thing to be a play on words. In that time, there was a saying that nothing good comes from Nazareth. Saying someone was a nazarine is like saying they are nothing, or worthless. The OT does prophecy that the Messiah would be treated this way. This is why Matthew uses the plural "prophets," rather than the singular, indicating he is not referencing a specific verse, but rather a general teaching.
Secondly, he doesn't specifically say the Scriptures, as Alex characterizes it, here. He says "prophets." This generally refers to the Scriptures, but is not exclusive to it. As such, we are merely assuming Matthew means some verse in the OT, but he doesn't actually say that. The fact that, in that very same chapter, when he makes similar statements he directly quotes the passage he is referencing, but doesn't here, shows that he is not necessarily citing Scripture, but something else.
Lastly, writing in the first century, primarily to a Jewish audience (which is why he references the OT so much), and suddenly making up a random prophecy is pretty crazy and unlikely. He would have known his audience knew the Scriptures and knew enough about messianic prophecy that making up something like this would have immediately been noticed and rejected by his target audience. Think about it: he points to other examples of fulfilled prophecy and cites the actual passages fulfilled. What would he gain by adding the nazarine prophecy? Absolutely nothing. Adding this prophecy adds nothing to his argument, and takes away from it if false. As such, it is a reasonable assumption that his audience knew what prophecy he was referring to, but not us. Similar to the star of bethlehem followed by the wise men. Clearly, there were other messianic prophecies running around at that time, not necessarily limited to the OT.
Insisting that this was simply made up is not charitable in any way to the text, and only results from trying to show that the Bible is false. We wouldn't reach that conclusion in any other text, rather we would first give it the benefit of the doubt. Only after other options are rejected can we conclude its made up or something like that.
100% agree. What the bible 'says' and 'doesn't say' is equally important when studying the texts. Coming to conclusions before weighing things up properly is disingenuous.
I think you have a lot of misconceptions about the times in which these were written. Matthew wasn't "writing for a Jewish audience" in a literal sense. He was a figure that commanded respect in these matters, and hearing about such a prophecy from him wouldn't spontaneously create fact-checkers who would correct him. His scholarship would go unquestioned because that is the culture of the time.
@@revlarmilion9574 It is pretty much scholarly consensus that he was, in fact, writing primarily to a jewish audience. He was also writing in the first century, in and around the very people that were enemies of Christ and christians. There is internal evidence that Jews were running around refuting Paul. What makes you think they wouldn't refute someone claiming that their prophets said something completely made up? The author of matthew, as well as most first-century christians, were all Jews. So, yes, they would have been familiar with the OT and would have noticed something completely fabricated like this.
Prophets = OT PROPHETS etc Otherwise you admit that the author of Matthew believed in a different canon like the author of Jude who quotes the book of Enoch or Paul who quoted apokrypha
And the author of Matthew didn't write to Hebrews. He wrote in Greek and even explained things like Eli, Eli... Jews at that time for sure didn't need a translation or explanation for their mother language
Alex, you should have Dr. Michael Brown, a Christian Ancient Hebrew scholar, to discuss these passages from a Christian perspective.He’s considered one of if not the foremost Christian voices on this topics. I think you may find he has some satisfactory answers.
Dr. Bart Ehrman is an American professor of religious studies and a leading expert on the life and times of the Jesus character and an acclaimed New Testament authority.
I’ll have to check out Dr. Brown and see how his studies align.
@@paddlefar9175 Dr. Brown holds a Ph.D in Near Eastern Languages and Literature from New York University, which admittedly seems equally if not more relevant to these kinds of questions than Bart’s credentials, though I don’t think credentials should be looked at above arguments.
@@CollinBoSmith The Bible was originally written in Hebrew (OT) and Greek ( NT) so Dr. Ehrman would be in the better position to understand and translate the meaning of the original text of the Bible, than Brown would be.
@@CollinBoSmith He’s a dinosaur in his thinking. He believes that by a person being Gay, there is something wrong with that person and that society should take a stand against gay activism and not support their right to be who they are.
@@paddlefar9175 PaddleFar, Hebrew falls under “near eastern languages” and is Browns expertise. Seeing as how ehrmans appealing more to the Old Testament Hebrew in this video it seems Brown would be in a better position, but I’m willing to say they both bring needed expertise to the table.
Is the link in the bio too?
I think there is another possibility that Bart Erhman did not mention is that Matthew makes many parallels to OT figures as well as seeking to show Jesus fulfilling many OT prophecies. I think it is possible that Matthew was making a parallel to Jesus being as a liberator/judge like Samson; albeit, a better version.
It's easy to nitpick the problematic passages, and apply ONE interpretation and say "AHA, GOTCHA!"
For the first statement in this video, at least they do mention that there are explanations which are viable, but for the one about the Virgin birth, I wonder why he didn't do that and just says "you didn't read the OT in context." Well, I'm sure the scholars did, and not exposing their view is a neat way of tricking your audience to think that all other explanations are out of context.
A quick search reveals the answers if anyone is interested to know, not just clap for one interpretation that could easily be influenced by confirmation bias, or I guess anchoring bias because Matthew must be wrong somewhere. Keep in mind, there is no reason for Matthew to lie in this way, his audience knew their scriptures by heart, so deception by misinterpretation due to out-of-context translation must be ruled out.
I have had demonic experiences (more than half a dozen) over a period of several years and my heart truly breaks for all atheists out there. My experiences were absolutely horrifying and it wasn't until I got on my knees and cried out to Jesus Christ to save me that these attacks stopped.
Do you realise that in every religion we find people claiming the exact thing ?😂 come with objective arguments or now Hinduism is true too
@@germanboy14 Don't care what other religions claim. I know what I experienced and there was nothing rational or logical about it. And the only name that stopped the attacks was Jesus Christ.
If you have had demonic experiences, you should worry about yourself more than you worry about those of us who don't need to believe in fairy tales to get through life.
@@Don-md6wn My experiences happened many years ago so I am not worried about myself. And saying I worry about you is an overstatement. I pray for you, but your decision is yours.
Makes sense. You observed something that seemed supernatural, tested out words of protection, it worked, and you therefore apply that observation to your life and adjust your beliefs to it. Whatever get us to through this thing called life, is Ok with me. Have a good one ppl.
Great clip but you lied about the link that supposedly 'just appeared on my screen.' Instantly forgiven, of course.
Matthew uses the word Nazarene in reference to a person who is “despised and rejected.” In the first century, Nazareth was a small town about 55 miles north of Jerusalem, and it had a negative reputation among the Jews. Galilee was generally looked down upon by Judeans, and Nazareth of Galilee was especially despised (see John 1:46). If this was Matthew’s emphasis, the prophecies Matthew had in mind could include these two passages concerning the Messiah
Everyone: wow! I love Bart! My favorite New Testament scholar!
Well that explains a lot of why you guys are so misled…
Their favorite enabler of their sin. So they can use his credentials as a fallacy in attempt to say look this 40 year biblical scholar says it, it must be fact! Give me a break.
Jesus predicted his death 3 times in the Gospel mark.
Bart Ehrman: “its clear Jesus is completely shocked during his persecution“
Jesus meets with disciples numerous times and appears to 500 eye witnesses. Thomas recalls physically touching his wounds after resurrection.
Bart Ehrman: “it’s possible it could have been his twin Brother”
LAUGHABLE argument’s.
@@Scotty_cooks I agree… it’s really sad. TBH I think Alex himself is much smarter than this guy Bart. I’m genuinely so unimpressed and I hardly ever say that. So I’m shocked that this comment section loves him. After this video I had my own reasons why I didn’t find it compelling, and then I went to Matthew and re read it again, and genuinely I have no idea what Bart is talking about. The book of Matthew is not at all similar to how he described and apparently disproved it. Im so sad these people live in an echo chamber.
@@jadehart2257 Yes i do agree Alex is most likely more intelligent than bart. However being intelligent a-lot of times usually comes equipped with a decent amount of pride. Even the smartest person who ever lived couldn’t even understand 1% of the universe. Thats only Gods creation not God himself. Yet people reject him on the basis of lack of understanding him which to me is in itself very baffling.
It is very sad I really wish i could take part in helping everyone get saved. However it was written broad is the path to destruction many will enter it. We can take solace in the fact that God will always do what is truly righteous and he knows better than all. He knew the outcome before anything was created.
@@Scotty_cooks “the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom”
@@jadehart2257 Amen 🙏
“Better is open rebuke
than hidden love”
“Wounds from a friend can be trusted,
but an enemy multiplies kisses.”
Im only on here to refute their arguments in attempt to get them to reconsider their rigid way of thinking. I’m more concerned with their eternal security than their feelings being hurt. They don’t truly know whats at stake.
Bart Ehrman is a boss.
Only if you never read even the most basic introduction to the new testament.
Nice bookshelves. I have stacks of books all over my house and some really lame shelving.
Are they talking about Matt verse 2?
*Yeah, I'll never be able to unhear that ever again
His book ‘Misquoting Jesus’ is very good and highly recommended (by me, at least)
This dude is a badass for handing a big L to William Craig, along with Sean Carroll and Shelly Kagan.
@1:50 Could it be that part was later omitted in the OT?
Bart Ehrman interview about New Testament mistranscription by Drew-- I mean... Alex O'Connor! Was this a coincidence or did you upload near the same time on purpose?
1. The NT writers apply passages about Israel to Jesus not because they misunderstand the passage, but because they believe Jesus must fulfill Israel's history and destiny. This is not a "misunderstanding," but an applied understanding in light of their messianic definition.
2. Matthew isn't denying the original context of Isaiah 7. Like most handling of prophecy in the NT (and Second Temple Judaism) they believe a text can have multiple fulfillments, and usually understand future fulfillments to be bigger than the original. Isaiah 7 carries over into Matthew quite well because before Jesus was older than a paidion Herod died, just like the disbanding of the kings in Isaiah 7.
I feel confident Ehrman has heard these things before, but it is beyond the scope of his interest to engage them. Or then again perhaps not. Ehrman is sometimes accused of having a head full of twentieth century scholarship on the Gospels (hence his dated notion that Jesus could not speak Greek).
The post-exilic Old Testament books originally written in Aramaic. They were translated into Hebrew by the Massoretes.
Bart went to the same high school as me! Though not at the same time, sadly.
Dream guest, let's go
Where's the full video?
When's the whole thing coming out???
I don't want to listen to the clip because I am just waiting for the full episode to drop ASAP
The "full episode" occurred 2,000 years ago. Although I respect these two scholars, most of the discussion is seemingly speculation.
Respectfully....
As a Christian (Quaker UK) he is absolutely spot on. The Jesus parable shows him as a homeless militant outsider who championied simplicity and emptiness. Very Zen.
Alex, no link appeared on the screen.
I think the part about how that verse in Isaiah doesn't refer to the conception of a virgin is worthy of a Shorts clip.
I really wish the seminarians Bert mentioned studying with would communicate their rational approach to the Bible to the members of the religions in question. They *know* it's not to be taken entirely literally, but that idea is never a part of religious instruction.
Really interesting guest.
It is a part of religious instruction is many churches and denominations, especially those with seminary-trained pastors, and was the case throughout historical Christianity.
Kinda like fox talking heads, knowing and saying different than what they tell the lemmings.
@@charlesatty Are you referring to Fox News? Because i would agree. Let's add CNN, MSNBC and NBC while we're at it. All of these media outlets are heavily pushing an agenda and can't be trusted as impartial.
Only discovered Alex O’Connor’s channel a couple of weeks ago, what I’ve seen so far is high quality.
Bart D. Ehrman books on New Testament Scholarship and early Christianity are highly accessible to the non specialist reader.
I have been informed and entertained while reading his books during the last 20 years.
I am planning to start a degree course in New Testament studies this October, Bart has inspired me to attempt this.
I was raised a Christian, and continued as such for around 35 years. Then circumstances challenged me to dig into the reasons for my faith. Those reasons were found wanting. Bart Erman was one of the people who helped me with my deconversion. His books and online discussions were invaluable. That was 15 years ago.
A great wise man