A question that I usually enjoy is, "can I get your opinion on something?" It easily gets me talking because it's stimulating and shows you value my perspective and makes me feel useful.
5w4, life is meaningless, but that's beautiful because no one can tell you anything specific matters, all that matters is what you personally decide to focus on
We try not to burden others with our problems or ask for help, because it feels like usually anytime we actually do ask for help it falls on deaf ears, is brushed off as nothing or even unimportant..... and people don't understand that if we 5s are asking for help... we've already reached a place of desperation and asking for help in anyway is an absolute last resort
@@twlahue we especially don't like to borrow money or anything for that matter. Which comes right back to us treating others the way we want to be treated... since know we don't like the feeling of someone owing us and the heavy drag of trying to get whats owed to us back... we don't like making other people feel that... I don't know about all 5s but for myself there isn't a single decision or move I make while having any type of social interaction where it isn't filtered through... we will call it "logical empathy" .... always thinking if I do this or that ... and I were the other person... how would that make me feel... and I do my best not to break that rule of treating others how I'd like to be treated.
A great example is not committing to do something and not following through.... so if I'm not going to do it, I'll tell you I'm not.... I won't let myself be someone who just flakes out.... why? Because cant stand it if someone does that to me.... some people just can't seem to be Honest and tell you no when they really want to, and say they will do something for you ... to just no show up.... which I find rude... and then on the otherside of it, some would find me to be rude because of how easily I can just tell people no. Lol
And I definitely relate to asking deep, challenging questions at school and church. Often people can’t or don’t want to answer them. I like debating experts- professors and pastors. I need to balance my search of knowledge with love and sensitivity of people’s feelings though.
I think a good question to draw a 5 out of isolation would be for example asking for an advice, or for concrete/practical stuff that could pique his interest and lead him to open up.
As a 5, I'll try to speak more to the "life is meaningless" aspect. I think this comes about a lot because a lot of us 5s tend to be so fact-based and empirical in their observations, and it's easy for us to fall into the trap of nihilism when the spiritual and metaphysical seem farcical to our worldview. But it's those aspects of life that give a lot of people meaning, and without them, 5s can find themselves with a lack of meaning. So, the state of unhealth for a 5 with this viewpoint is "life is meaningless, what's the point of anything?" That's nihilism. But if you acknowledge that as a living organism, you are here, and you have needs and desires - that's a place to start. And even if you don't find some sort of nirvana or spiritual awakening, there's still plenty of room for meaning. And it can actually be overwhelming, because the opposite of nihilism is existentialism. A 5 in a state of health realizes: Meaning isn't assigned to us by the external world. We assign meaning. We make our own meaning. So, it's up to every 5 to create meaning and purpose in life - and that's something freeing and exciting. Maybe there's no cosmic validation to the meaning we create - and that's OK. All the validation we need is care for ourselves, care for others, and trying to accomplish some positive contribution to the continuation of our species, no matter how big or small.
A true 5w4 will tell you that Nirvana is just a marketing gimmick for an organized religion that wants you to turn inward instead of make changes to the world or challenge the earthly authorities.
#7 Social Pressure - I’m a five and I can say that most people don’t realize that I am a five, due to my intentionally developed social behavior. I learned to be friendly. Once a person is close to me, they will see how often I need to withdraw, as well as how I carefully manage my energy. When I was younger, I was in YWAM and with people 24/7 - many times I would sneak out of my dorm in the middle of the night to walk by myself, or I would skip meals. As as a mother when my kids were young, I had a way of being in the room with them, but creating my own head space, or intoverting with people in the room. I always found ways no matter what.
wow. learning about your son's experience at camp, that was my whole childhood. I pressed leaders at church's for digging deeper, and my parents as well. I remember telling my mother I didn't want to be in my age group class at church because it was baby stuff, as I said. I was 8 years old, and was ready to talk theology. I felt like I was often dismissed, or told to disregard the inconsistencies and I just cannot do that.
I am a 5 and INFJ and have been diagnosed with OCD in the past but I think I outgrew it. but I feel like this is fairly accurate but I feel like there is definitely a meaning to life. I also listen to certain books at a sped up rate. I obsessively research all sorts of things and oftentimes forget to feed myself but having children keeps me on a better schedule. It is very important to keep relationships with friends and family but I realize I can go months without speaking to people and not even realize. I can sometimes do parties at a home or around some close people but feel like I wanna run. Can’t stand bars or clubs. Don’t want to do anything with large crowds whatsoever. I prefer small groups of people. I do want a relationship but I need to be myself and not have something too clingy. I feel like most of the time I come off as clingy because I would rather know what’s going on right away(just to ease my mind) but I don’t actually want to be up under someone. I like my own stuff and I don’t care to be bothered by things I know I don’t care about like sports or whatever. But I also don’t mind if the other person does. Some of this stuff is correct but I definitely feel I have a purpose and that there is so much meaning to life for sure.
5w6, i specialize in math. became interested in mbti and enneagram. if you bother a 5, just ask: "everything ok?". if they open up, then good. if they said 'yeah' and not expounded or just being silent, give 30 seconds and just leave. we will just clam up. Hahaha
I found it really interesting how the "obsessive compulsive" idea and the "fear of the unknown / needing to know the answers" ties in really well with one another. I am a 5 and I used to have OCD, and a major part of dealing with and healing from OCD is learning to accept the uncertainty. It can be pretty tough 😅. Thank you for this wonderful video! (There was something else i was gonna say but i am in a hurry to get to an appointment now, so ill edit later if i remember this)
“Trying to get into that 5 space and debate myself - it’s not going so well. But I would say we love you” LOL what an empathic and honest approach with a wonderful transition into acceptance and love! 15:34
5w6 here. Currently in a highly emotional situation with a husband that had a serious stroke (big blood clot in the brain). The uncertainty of EVERYTHING in his situation and the unkown impact on our future is driving me to the brink of crazy!!! I need to know stuff, so my first impulse to soothe me is to gather facts, bad or good, doesn’t matter: I just need to know… Hyperfocus and withdrawal totally needed there. No option to prepare and plan as we do not know where he ‘lands’ in 2-3 years, hence complete sense of inadequacy. I miss him, as he was. I feel sorrow for his and my loss. I feel completely alone as I know others cannot change the current circumstances nor tell me what I need to know (the future), and as such I feel like a burden. And I cannot add that to his curr burden, nor can others carry it for me, even though so many people offer their kind help. Because cutting the hedges doesn’t help where I desperately need it, and nothing will… For now. In this scenario self neglect is a very real thing for me, as I am so exhausted that I only have the energy for our 13-y-old son, and then nothing left for me. Complete exhaustion. Taking a bath is yet anither chore. I am emotionally exhausted, I allow myself to feel all the emotions, when I am in my safe spot, that is when I am alone, and then I try to make it all work when I need to go out in the world and do all the things and interact with all the people… over and out😢
Same here🌸 I think from learning so many things my brain starts connecting the dots and I see the patterns in behaviors in history, etc Eventually getting into the rabbit holes the brain starts merging biology, physics, evolution, consciousness, feelings and my brain gets too intense and complicated to communicate to my partner which a lot of times can’t understand me because he lacks a lot of information to understand what I’m talking about.
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." - The Call of Cthulhu
Life is full of meaning but it's a lot of work to extract it at times ; I work very hard to not be a burden and I try to share the many burdens of life with other people (but I really don't enjoy it. I merely know that it is the absolute right thing to do); I have the right to intellectualize my feelings as feelings are extremely deceptive and often mask reality and isolation is profoundly essential to my mental health and I never get enough time to process my thoughts, life, experiences, and feelings; conspiracy theories are like a mind puzzle but I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about them; I admit to being obsessive and make lists because I have a very bad reaction to forgetting things; the unknown doesn't really disturb me but I do like having a plan for things that have elements that are outside of my control; I don't listen to people who don't know what they are talking about or who make decisions and constructs about the world out of their feelings; social pressure - yeah....even around my own people. I hate it and only do it out of obligation. It is painful and anxiety inducing; I know I am inadequate and I try to add value where I can. I also know what I'm good at and have a solid confidence in that; neglecting physical needs - yeah, that really is a problem, a failing, an area of neglect. If I could take a pill instead of cook for 3/4 of my meals, what a mercy that would be! Having said all that, I have a son who is an 8 (I think) and a grandson who is a 5. God have mercy but they struggle with one another.
Maybe if you ask the 5 what videos on RUclips they have been watching. Or if you ask them about a specific topic they have been researching. I'm a 2 but I had a college professor that I didn't agree with on certain Bible topics. I didn't argue. I just did my work and worked to get a good grade. If you have good manners and learn about the topic and how to respond the way the professor wants, you usually get a good grade. College isn't always about how you feel or voicing your opinion. Great video! Thank you for sharing!
It SHOULDN'T be about how you feel or your opinion, or about just regurgitating what's been dictated from rote memory to get a good grade- that's the entire point. What it SHOULD be about is what factually IS, and how to verify that it is, not just from a source that may be biased but by logical analysis and falsification. Anything else is little more than being talked down to by someone who can't defend their tenured position with rational answers, and it sets an example that promotes lazy thinking- I can find both of those "qualifications" in any short order cook or barrista for the price of a 20% tip, even without if it's a slow day.
I'm a 5w6 as far as I can tell but my interests and gifting are in theology, philosophy, and history. Not so much science or math. Also, the first designation that life is meaningless I kind of perked up because I instinctively thought, that depends on your worldview. But as you explained it, it made sense but I like to relabel it as minimal effectiveness. Just because we may see that some people are dumb or else entrenched in their beliefs or practices, and one person or group no matter how persuasive won't rock the boat to any significant degree of change.
22:00 😂 I absolutely love your sons reaction. He is absolutely correct. It reminds me of something i say all the time.... " I dont know everything about anything, but I know a little bit about a world of things"
I'm only at 9:27 yet, but I already had to pause the video for a moment, because it was hitting too close. Interestingly, I like this feeling though, it's the reason I always come back and watch more videos!
I think the conspiracy thing is accurate, but not in the way you think about it. I think it has more to do with finding the rabbit in the rabbit hole, rather than putting on a tinfoil hat. A bit like Scully in X-files, it has this novelty and you are allowed to say but here is where you are wrong. I am into UAPs and NHIs, because it gives a space to play with an fiction non-fiction duality. I don't give much for religion either, that doesn't mean I can't show an interest in why some people believe in some deity.
Spot on. I’m an atheist but religion, the supernatural, folklore all absolutely fascinate me. It’s about finding that edge of the unknown then going beyond.
I'm agnostic but I'm currently obsessed with the interpretations of ancient biblical scriptures recently uncovered in the Nag Hammadi library and how they vastly variate from modern "approved" translations
On the question of being instructed by someone who can't or won't engage in rational discussion of deeper implications of a topic and only provide superficial non-answers: it creates the impressions that the person does not respect the subject matter, doesn't respect me, doesn't respect competence or their own integrity, and doesn't HAVE the integrity to honestly admit they don't know the answers, but expect subservience to their pretense of "authority" through a power imbalance and intimidation. I have great respect for those who display competence in any given area of expertise who are willing to teach others, and for those who are curious and imaginative and willing to explore, speculate, and learn; but I have only disdain for anyone who stands only on ceremony, and attempts to use their position of influence to silence honest conversation. Iconoclast?, damn right, an honest one.
Whoa, that's some deep stuff! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Keep being true to your values and seeking out those who appreciate honest conversations.
In case someone gets the impression all 5's are high in disagreeableness: Some are more agreeable and capable of looking for common ground (avoiding verbal fireworks!). 🙂The contrarian-analytical nature may still be there, though.
What is the right question to draw us out of isolation? Ask us for input about something real you are dealing with. Ask us for insight into a situation. Ask us for an opinion. But don't pry into our thoughts or interests if you aren't actually interested in learning more.
Hi Tom, you definitely caught my attention with this one. At this point, I have no doubt I am mainly a Type 5, but not everything that you went through in your list for the fives applies to me. 1. I definitely don't think that life is meaningless, actually it's the other way around. 2. I no longer perceive myself as a burden, I actually know my own value, I just don't like to advertise it like others do. As a 5, I will gladly take some advice from an ignorant and modify it to something more useful, there can be a hidden treasure in an ignorant as well as in a professional and vice versa, it is true for the very opposite. I will also watch and listen some advice from professionals and apply them or modify them to suit my personal needs. 3. You're spot on the "excessive isolation" LOL...not so funny though! I am not obsessed by the unknown, I actually find it intriguing...Social pressure, yes...I would like interaction with groups of people, but I get annoyed and bored quickly by superficiality and feeling depleted most of the time afterward. Fear of inadequacy yes, I suffer it, mostly because I would probably say something that will shocks people to the point of gossiping since they would perceive me as different or perhaps even odd. Next, I am not at the point to burn meals, nor anything major, but when I am focused on something important to me, I like to be able to bring it to a full closure. I do not spend much time pampering my body or face as much as I dedicate in nourishing the mind and spiritual self. My own conclusion is that the type 5 is totally present with me and utterly pronounced, though I have yet to figure out the whole Triad associated with it. I am sure that not all fives are alike, similar maybe, but none is alike another. I am prone to think that my type 5 is more wing oriented somewhere between the 7 and the 8, but the verdict still incomplete just yet, since I find some resonance with the type 4, and a little bit with every other types with the exception of type 9, don't get me wrong here, I love Peace, Harmony and Unity for all, but I don't see myself as being much of an accommodator. I do not like manipulations and find compromises to be rather boring and depressing. I hope this will help you understand more of the type 5, and if you have a better idea on what Triad my type 5 belongs to from these clues here, feel free to let me know, I would be curious to read upon it. Thanks!
If you want to check on a five, ask them to come with you to do/see something mentally stimulating that is interesting to them. It’s likely to be pretty niche. Go tour a historic home, visit an art gallery or museum or a music show or talk, whatever they are interested in.
I could see myself in a lot of these and it's interesting to read through the comments because fives can be so different from each other too. The 'life is meaningless' bit I don't relate to at all, but I did search for meaning from an early age and so I see it and live for it. The one I relate to most is feeling like a burden, but I absolutely do not feel that other people are a burden to me. That's an area of 'fiveness' that made me question whether I am one. I can get socially drained, and being obligated to be at a party or somewhere I need to make small talk can be hard, but I don't feel burdened by the needs of my friends or family, my students or co-workers. If anything, the fact that I have always felt like a burden makes me all the more open to meeting their needs if I can and to being intentional about not making them feel like a burden. A lot of the other ones I can see in myself to varying degrees when I am least healthy or in a particularly stressful situation.
As a 5w4, I really resonate with this content and I appreciate a 7's perspective which seems very understanding and supportive. I also wonder why I chose to be an Engineer instead of a Philosopher or Psychologist... practicality and earning potential probably factored in, but I digress... thank you for the video!
I quit uni when I started to realize I was the one teaching myself out of nothing from my professors. I was even tutoring my classmates during vacant periods. And it’s hard to find a job and respect your superiors if they aren’t intellectually superior.
This is my first video comment, it might be off-topic. I'll watch this later. I want to comment before the thought disappears. I hope my realization helps people. Being a type 5, I realize I lack energy when I'm not intellectually stimulated. I have lots of energy when I am Second, aggression. I don't get angry. But I've surprisingly gotten angry twice and verbally expressed it. I was surprised by the first and handled the second more maturely-ish. I realized in both cases that I only got aggressive because I was dealing with something unknown. The first time was because multiple people gave me different instructions simultaneously. There was no clear outcome or path to take. The other time, I asked for directions at the traffic light and got no response as the traffic grew closer. My guess is that aggression only shows up for type 5s if they can't escape internally or externally. Last, on top fives and stress, I sometimes get comments about being all over the place, but I realize it's divergent thinking. It allows me to weigh multiple options without fully committing to one idea until the best option wins. And that's a valuable skill. Anyway, I watch your videos and want to know what you think. Thank you. Have a good day.
5 Tom Judo'd 7 Tom in that debate 😂 which was funny, but it was pretty accurate. A 5 will seek to undo your entire plan/argument immediately and in 1 question with as few syllables as required. And a very common approach is to undermine the logic of what you're doing. The "treat them how you want to be treated, I am! I'm not bothering them." And "why do you HAVE to draw us out?" are excellent examples. To your point about the 5 need to debate, it's not debating just for sport and entertainment (most of the time), it's debate as a proxy for physical evidence for an abstract idea. If given a compelling enough argument, we'll concede and possibly even change positions in real time. But it has to be a very compelling argument. Because 5s examine their ideas constantly. Basically, you need to tell a 5 something they hadn't thought of that advances the 5's agenda or improves their positioning.
I’m an sp 4w3, but some segments of this 5 video was relatable to me. Which made me think it’s because I have a 5 wing. Such interesting and beneficial information!
Nope not so much. I do feel like a burden sometimes because I’m chronically ill and a do need help. And I don’t like being in large groups and it makes me uncomfortable.
I do have a pet peve on the what do you feel vs what do you think. It has been vommon place when asking for someone's opinion on something in asking them what they feel about it. I could care less what they feel. I want to know what they think. Obviously Ines thoughts and emotions or feelings are interlaced in a myriad of ways, but they are distinct from each other. They should not be confused. Okay, enneamgram 5 rant over. 😂
A protest may not change opinions but it's good to show that, if you have the same opinion as the protestors, you are not alone. Such protests were very important in 2020 (not the police murder thing, the other stuff) for my mental health.
I dont feel that badly about being taught by people who dont fully understand what theyre teaching because it confirms my postition that Im smarter and have more information lol. I tell myself its hard for one person to know everything and that that's my job. To be the person that knows everything.
Why it is so me? I'm still not sure if I'm 5w4 or 5w6. I was always struggling with maths and engineering kinds of topics. I don't have a technical mind as such at all. I was always into being more creative and unique in some shape or form. I'm more intuitive and most 4s are quite Intuitive compared to 6s in general more sensory in MBTI tests. I'd say 4 wing looks much closer to me but I really don't like being on spotlight and explain myself creatively and articulately like most 4s do. Or do I? Without conscious effort, that's what'd I be doing, who knows... I've heard numerous times that I am a very creative story-teller and many times people around me appreciated my objective broader insights and resourcefulness. It's like as soon as I feel like my wing is 4, I feel way less unique and 4 feels much more individualized than me. But when I think I'm wing 6, it feels like I'm never that mainstream, and I can never be, no matter how much I try. I believe there are people like me who are both 6 and 4 wings at the same time. Could it be?
Lol when I was doing a selective process for my current job I was asked "How do you feel about the company?" and I just froze, like what do you mean by "feel"? I just couldn't get it.
🤣! Life is meaningless. Yes. Though meaningless doesn’t equate nihilism or pessimism. I find meaning to be subjective. Mostly it’s a human construct to give most a reason to not feel insignificant or that one has a mission of sorts to better the world or have an impact on it. It’s heavy on the “ego” for the aspect of needing to be someone important, to be needed, essential. I rather live a simple life of appreciation and humbleness, were enjoying the beauty of creation and living in harmony with all is my greatest inspiration and way to live besides learning of course🌸
So true. I’m a five. My husband had to tell me he can’t follow me past about two minutes, because I can accidentally go for 20 minutes and barely notice him glazing over and getting distracted. So I keep that in mind when we want to connect. And if I need him to hear a longer form thought I prepare him for it.
I also wonder how reliable of an answer you 5 son is. No offense, but his own self awareness seems minimal by the information you've provided of him in previous videos. It may be more reliable to receive information from more mature and self aware 5s.
I feel like I might be partially responsible for you're "walking on eggshells" here, after all of my pushback in the form of "dumps" on a previous enneagram 5 video.. (oops!) Please, please feel free to say exactly what's on your mind without tip toeing. Sure, I might disagree with some of it. After all, I actually "know" what's true for me and (clearly) I've had no trouble saying what's on my mind! You shouldn't either.! And if I DO disagree with any of it, you can handle it...I have faith!.
INTJ 5w4 here: couldn't agree more on every point. People are shallow and superficial, most of their conversation not really engaging to us. Small talk is a nightmare. Seeing, meeting or being around people is so exhausting, hence our very strong social anxiety, all the more if you add the fear of being rejected because of our impostor syndrome ('you're not good enough, study more!'). Life is meaningless until you understand that Life is learning how to reach back to God. Also, "conspiracy theories" is another name for Truth :p
Yeah, people think we're edgelords but we just prefer conversations about unknowns and contentious issues. Get a few drinks in any 5w4 and he becomes Diogenes.
I agree with most everything too. However, my perspective is that what the average person does in the name of bringing forth change in the world is meaningless. It is mostly something that they do as their morality banner. The other thing is that I don't have time to work on conspiracy theories, let me see the evidence and then I'll decide. BTW, I'm an INTJ 5w4 too, how close are you to taking over the world?
@@cmonster67 I've gradually given up on the idea of taking over the world to change it, because things are currently going the way I feel is right. "God has a plan" has never been so tangible to me right now, so... The world is changing on its own, anyway, going through cycles of Good or Evil periods of time. Just go with the flow and try not to drown :)
This is extremely interesting and pretty accurate. I keep laughing because it’s me….and accurate. I am a 5, wing 4…..but, I think there’s a wing 6 in there too. So watching RUclips and putting off everything else I should be doing. 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️😂 In my defense, I am making an effort to socialize more, got a dog sitter too. And I started juicing. Easier to buy made. 😂😂😂
5w6. What question should you ask?! None! Let me be. I'll come out of my shell and initiate conversation when I'm ready. Don't annoy me with meaningless chit-chat. 😂 Sorry 🤷♀️
what a horrible video!!! 😱all that freaking things are happening to me!!! 😭god! that's so scare... but it was funny at the final of some explainations cuz u look like almost frustraded hahahaha may be u were thinking that we wont get it hahaha but we did ! 😎
This is the absolute truth: (I’m a 5w4) The previous video I watched before this was about the fake moon landing and I am currently making a zinc/copper battery on top of my washing machine. I’m not exaggerating one bit.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
A question that I usually enjoy is, "can I get your opinion on something?" It easily gets me talking because it's stimulating and shows you value my perspective and makes me feel useful.
5w4, life is meaningless, but that's beautiful because no one can tell you anything specific matters, all that matters is what you personally decide to focus on
Internet nihilism -- the basic bitch of anything remotely philosophical
I'm a 5w4... are you sure our lives are meaningless ?? I don't think meaningless is the right word.
@@StephanieStults meaningless until you decide what your personal meaning is, only you can determine what your meaning is
Beautifully said
We try not to burden others with our problems or ask for help, because it feels like usually anytime we actually do ask for help it falls on deaf ears, is brushed off as nothing or even unimportant..... and people don't understand that if we 5s are asking for help... we've already reached a place of desperation and asking for help in anyway is an absolute last resort
Wow, thanks for that insight.
@@twlahue we especially don't like to borrow money or anything for that matter. Which comes right back to us treating others the way we want to be treated... since know we don't like the feeling of someone owing us and the heavy drag of trying to get whats owed to us back... we don't like making other people feel that... I don't know about all 5s but for myself there isn't a single decision or move I make while having any type of social interaction where it isn't filtered through... we will call it "logical empathy" .... always thinking if I do this or that ... and I were the other person... how would that make me feel... and I do my best not to break that rule of treating others how I'd like to be treated.
A great example is not committing to do something and not following through.... so if I'm not going to do it, I'll tell you I'm not.... I won't let myself be someone who just flakes out.... why? Because cant stand it if someone does that to me.... some people just can't seem to be Honest and tell you no when they really want to, and say they will do something for you ... to just no show up.... which I find rude... and then on the otherside of it, some would find me to be rude because of how easily I can just tell people no. Lol
Personally I don’t want to burden others because I feel burdened when others need things from me. Especially emotionally.
As a 5, I love the questions “what did you learn today?” and “what have you been curious about lately?”
I am a one on one subtype and I prefer sharing my feelings with my favorite person or best friend and often I “think” and analyze my feelings first.
And I definitely relate to asking deep, challenging questions at school and church. Often people can’t or don’t want to answer them. I like debating experts- professors and pastors. I need to balance my search of knowledge with love and sensitivity of people’s feelings though.
I definitely relate to analyzing, dismissing, or debating as the main things I do with input 😂
I think a good question to draw a 5 out of isolation would be for example asking for an advice, or for concrete/practical stuff that could pique his interest and lead him to open up.
That’s how my sis got me out. She basically has “projects” for me to complete.
As a 5, I'll try to speak more to the "life is meaningless" aspect. I think this comes about a lot because a lot of us 5s tend to be so fact-based and empirical in their observations, and it's easy for us to fall into the trap of nihilism when the spiritual and metaphysical seem farcical to our worldview. But it's those aspects of life that give a lot of people meaning, and without them, 5s can find themselves with a lack of meaning. So, the state of unhealth for a 5 with this viewpoint is "life is meaningless, what's the point of anything?" That's nihilism. But if you acknowledge that as a living organism, you are here, and you have needs and desires - that's a place to start. And even if you don't find some sort of nirvana or spiritual awakening, there's still plenty of room for meaning. And it can actually be overwhelming, because the opposite of nihilism is existentialism. A 5 in a state of health realizes: Meaning isn't assigned to us by the external world. We assign meaning. We make our own meaning. So, it's up to every 5 to create meaning and purpose in life - and that's something freeing and exciting. Maybe there's no cosmic validation to the meaning we create - and that's OK. All the validation we need is care for ourselves, care for others, and trying to accomplish some positive contribution to the continuation of our species, no matter how big or small.
Finally, someone who gets it
Thanks for clarifying this idea.
A true 5w4 will tell you that Nirvana is just a marketing gimmick for an organized religion that wants you to turn inward instead of make changes to the world or challenge the earthly authorities.
Life has no meaning except that which we give it.
#7 Social Pressure - I’m a five and I can say that most people don’t realize that I am a five, due to my intentionally developed social behavior. I learned to be friendly. Once a person is close to me, they will see how often I need to withdraw, as well as how I carefully manage my energy. When I was younger, I was in YWAM and with people 24/7 - many times I would sneak out of my dorm in the middle of the night to walk by myself, or I would skip meals. As as a mother when my kids were young, I had a way of being in the room with them, but creating my own head space, or intoverting with people in the room. I always found ways no matter what.
wow. learning about your son's experience at camp, that was my whole childhood. I pressed leaders at church's for digging deeper, and my parents as well. I remember telling my mother I didn't want to be in my age group class at church because it was baby stuff, as I said. I was 8 years old, and was ready to talk theology. I felt like I was often dismissed, or told to disregard the inconsistencies and I just cannot do that.
I am a 5 and INFJ and have been diagnosed with OCD in the past but I think I outgrew it. but I feel like this is fairly accurate but I feel like there is definitely a meaning to life. I also listen to certain books at a sped up rate. I obsessively research all sorts of things and oftentimes forget to feed myself but having children keeps me on a better schedule. It is very important to keep relationships with friends and family but I realize I can go months without speaking to people and not even realize. I can sometimes do parties at a home or around some close people but feel like I wanna run. Can’t stand bars or clubs. Don’t want to do anything with large crowds whatsoever. I prefer small groups of people. I do want a relationship but I need to be myself and not have something too clingy. I feel like most of the time I come off as clingy because I would rather know what’s going on right away(just to ease my mind) but I don’t actually want to be up under someone. I like my own stuff and I don’t care to be bothered by things I know I don’t care about like sports or whatever. But I also don’t mind if the other person does. Some of this stuff is correct but I definitely feel I have a purpose and that there is so much meaning to life for sure.
Insightful journey, embracing both solitude and meaningful connections.
5w6, i specialize in math. became interested in mbti and enneagram. if you bother a 5, just ask: "everything ok?". if they open up, then good. if they said 'yeah' and not expounded or just being silent, give 30 seconds and just leave. we will just clam up. Hahaha
It's hard to find good 5 stuff, & intj videos that the creator is human; not computer, or A.I. generated. Thanks for all of your hard work Tom.
Wow, thank you!
You're welcome I've been watching your channel for a long time. It's also hard to find a like minded person that fears God, & has great values.
I found it really interesting how the "obsessive compulsive" idea and the "fear of the unknown / needing to know the answers" ties in really well with one another. I am a 5 and I used to have OCD, and a major part of dealing with and healing from OCD is learning to accept the uncertainty. It can be pretty tough 😅. Thank you for this wonderful video! (There was something else i was gonna say but i am in a hurry to get to an appointment now, so ill edit later if i remember this)
“Trying to get into that 5 space and debate myself - it’s not going so well. But I would say we love you” LOL what an empathic and honest approach with a wonderful transition into acceptance and love! 15:34
Thanks
5w6 here. Currently in a highly emotional situation with a husband that had a serious stroke (big blood clot in the brain). The uncertainty of EVERYTHING in his situation and the unkown impact on our future is driving me to the brink of crazy!!!
I need to know stuff, so my first impulse to soothe me is to gather facts, bad or good, doesn’t matter: I just need to know…
Hyperfocus and withdrawal totally needed there. No option to prepare and plan as we do not know where he ‘lands’ in 2-3 years, hence complete sense of inadequacy.
I miss him, as he was. I feel sorrow for his and my loss. I feel completely alone as I know others cannot change the current circumstances nor tell me what I need to know (the future), and as such I feel like a burden. And I cannot add that to his curr burden, nor can others carry it for me, even though so many people offer their kind help. Because cutting the hedges doesn’t help where I desperately need it, and nothing will… For now.
In this scenario self neglect is a very real thing for me, as I am so exhausted that I only have the energy for our 13-y-old son, and then nothing left for me. Complete exhaustion. Taking a bath is yet anither chore.
I am emotionally exhausted, I allow myself to feel all the emotions, when I am in my safe spot, that is when I am alone, and then I try to make it all work when I need to go out in the world and do all the things and interact with all the people… over and out😢
Thanks for sharing this.
An important takeaway: Don’t throw a 5 a surprise birthday party. 🎉
"...at my worst I can experience psychotic breaks with reality..."
When the imagination and reality begin to merge together.
Same here🌸 I think from learning so many things my brain starts connecting the dots and I see the patterns in behaviors in history, etc Eventually getting into the rabbit holes the brain starts merging biology, physics, evolution, consciousness, feelings and my brain gets too intense and complicated to communicate to my partner which a lot of times can’t understand me because he lacks a lot of information to understand what I’m talking about.
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
- The Call of Cthulhu
Life is full of meaning but it's a lot of work to extract it at times ; I work very hard to not be a burden and I try to share the many burdens of life with other people (but I really don't enjoy it. I merely know that it is the absolute right thing to do); I have the right to intellectualize my feelings as feelings are extremely deceptive and often mask reality and isolation is profoundly essential to my mental health and I never get enough time to process my thoughts, life, experiences, and feelings; conspiracy theories are like a mind puzzle but I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about them; I admit to being obsessive and make lists because I have a very bad reaction to forgetting things; the unknown doesn't really disturb me but I do like having a plan for things that have elements that are outside of my control; I don't listen to people who don't know what they are talking about or who make decisions and constructs about the world out of their feelings; social pressure - yeah....even around my own people. I hate it and only do it out of obligation. It is painful and anxiety inducing; I know I am inadequate and I try to add value where I can. I also know what I'm good at and have a solid confidence in that; neglecting physical needs - yeah, that really is a problem, a failing, an area of neglect. If I could take a pill instead of cook for 3/4 of my meals, what a mercy that would be!
Having said all that, I have a son who is an 8 (I think) and a grandson who is a 5. God have mercy but they struggle with one another.
Maybe if you ask the 5 what videos on RUclips they have been watching. Or if you ask them about a specific topic they have been researching. I'm a 2 but I had a college professor that I didn't agree with on certain Bible topics. I didn't argue. I just did my work and worked to get a good grade. If you have good manners and learn about the topic and how to respond the way the professor wants, you usually get a good grade. College isn't always about how you feel or voicing your opinion. Great video! Thank you for sharing!
It SHOULDN'T be about how you feel or your opinion, or about just regurgitating what's been dictated from rote memory to get a good grade- that's the entire point. What it SHOULD be about is what factually IS, and how to verify that it is, not just from a source that may be biased but by logical analysis and falsification. Anything else is little more than being talked down to by someone who can't defend their tenured position with rational answers, and it sets an example that promotes lazy thinking- I can find both of those "qualifications" in any short order cook or barrista for the price of a 20% tip, even without if it's a slow day.
I'm a 5w6 as far as I can tell but my interests and gifting are in theology, philosophy, and history. Not so much science or math.
Also, the first designation that life is meaningless I kind of perked up because I instinctively thought, that depends on your worldview. But as you explained it, it made sense but I like to relabel it as minimal effectiveness. Just because we may see that some people are dumb or else entrenched in their beliefs or practices, and one person or group no matter how persuasive won't rock the boat to any significant degree of change.
22:00 😂 I absolutely love your sons reaction. He is absolutely correct. It reminds me of something i say all the time.... " I dont know everything about anything, but I know a little bit about a world of things"
I'm only at 9:27 yet, but I already had to pause the video for a moment, because it was hitting too close. Interestingly, I like this feeling though, it's the reason I always come back and watch more videos!
I think the conspiracy thing is accurate, but not in the way you think about it. I think it has more to do with finding the rabbit in the rabbit hole, rather than putting on a tinfoil hat. A bit like Scully in X-files, it has this novelty and you are allowed to say but here is where you are wrong. I am into UAPs and NHIs, because it gives a space to play with an fiction non-fiction duality. I don't give much for religion either, that doesn't mean I can't show an interest in why some people believe in some deity.
Spot on. I’m an atheist but religion, the supernatural, folklore all absolutely fascinate me. It’s about finding that edge of the unknown then going beyond.
I'm agnostic but I'm currently obsessed with the interpretations of ancient biblical scriptures recently uncovered in the Nag Hammadi library and how they vastly variate from modern "approved" translations
@@kylewood9078 That does sound interesting. Do you have any good links?
@@paljones8631 most of the discussion amongst scholars is on RUclips, I really like the channel Esoterica
Thanks for clarifying that.
On the question of being instructed by someone who can't or won't engage in rational discussion of deeper implications of a topic and only provide superficial non-answers: it creates the impressions that the person does not respect the subject matter, doesn't respect me, doesn't respect competence or their own integrity, and doesn't HAVE the integrity to honestly admit they don't know the answers, but expect subservience to their pretense of "authority" through a power imbalance and intimidation. I have great respect for those who display competence in any given area of expertise who are willing to teach others, and for those who are curious and imaginative and willing to explore, speculate, and learn; but I have only disdain for anyone who stands only on ceremony, and attempts to use their position of influence to silence honest conversation. Iconoclast?, damn right, an honest one.
Whoa, that's some deep stuff! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Keep being true to your values and seeking out those who appreciate honest conversations.
In case someone gets the impression all 5's are high in disagreeableness: Some are more agreeable and capable of looking for common ground (avoiding verbal fireworks!). 🙂The contrarian-analytical nature may still be there, though.
A good question might be: "what's on your mind?" or "what are you thinking about?"
I'm a 5w4
What is the right question to draw us out of isolation? Ask us for input about something real you are dealing with. Ask us for insight into a situation. Ask us for an opinion. But don't pry into our thoughts or interests if you aren't actually interested in learning more.
Hi Tom, you definitely caught my attention with this one. At this point, I have no doubt I am mainly a Type 5, but not everything that you went through in your list for the fives applies to me.
1. I definitely don't think that life is meaningless, actually it's the other way around.
2. I no longer perceive myself as a burden, I actually know my own value, I just don't like to advertise it like others do.
As a 5, I will gladly take some advice from an ignorant and modify it to something more useful, there can be a hidden treasure in an ignorant as well as in a professional and vice versa, it is true for the very opposite. I will also watch and listen some advice from professionals and apply them or modify them to suit my personal needs.
3. You're spot on the "excessive isolation" LOL...not so funny though!
I am not obsessed by the unknown, I actually find it intriguing...Social pressure, yes...I would like interaction with groups of people, but I get annoyed and bored quickly by superficiality and feeling depleted most of the time afterward. Fear of inadequacy yes, I suffer it, mostly because I would probably say something that will shocks people to the point of gossiping since they would perceive me as different or perhaps even odd. Next, I am not at the point to burn meals, nor anything major, but when I am focused on something important to me, I like to be able to bring it to a full closure.
I do not spend much time pampering my body or face as much as I dedicate in nourishing the mind and spiritual self.
My own conclusion is that the type 5 is totally present with me and utterly pronounced, though I have yet to figure out the whole Triad associated with it.
I am sure that not all fives are alike, similar maybe, but none is alike another. I am prone to think that my type 5 is more wing oriented somewhere between the 7 and the 8, but the verdict still incomplete just yet, since I find some resonance with the type 4, and a little bit with every other types with the exception of type 9, don't get me wrong here, I love Peace, Harmony and Unity for all, but I don't see myself as being much of an accommodator.
I do not like manipulations and find compromises to be rather boring and depressing. I hope this will help you understand more of the type 5, and if you have a better idea on what Triad my type 5 belongs to from these clues here, feel free to let me know, I would be curious to read upon it. Thanks!
If you want to check on a five, ask them to come with you to do/see something mentally stimulating that is interesting to them. It’s likely to be pretty niche. Go tour a historic home, visit an art gallery or museum or a music show or talk, whatever they are interested in.
That is great...
Thanks so much for your content Tom. I really appreciate your work.
❤ Great series thank you for sharing!
You are so welcome!
I could see myself in a lot of these and it's interesting to read through the comments because fives can be so different from each other too. The 'life is meaningless' bit I don't relate to at all, but I did search for meaning from an early age and so I see it and live for it. The one I relate to most is feeling like a burden, but I absolutely do not feel that other people are a burden to me. That's an area of 'fiveness' that made me question whether I am one. I can get socially drained, and being obligated to be at a party or somewhere I need to make small talk can be hard, but I don't feel burdened by the needs of my friends or family, my students or co-workers. If anything, the fact that I have always felt like a burden makes me all the more open to meeting their needs if I can and to being intentional about not making them feel like a burden.
A lot of the other ones I can see in myself to varying degrees when I am least healthy or in a particularly stressful situation.
Diverse experiences enrich our understanding of Type Five.
As a 5w4, I really resonate with this content and I appreciate a 7's perspective which seems very understanding and supportive. I also wonder why I chose to be an Engineer instead of a Philosopher or Psychologist... practicality and earning potential probably factored in, but I digress... thank you for the video!
5w6. Absolutely despise conspiracy theories. Agree with the absent minded professor analogy.
I quit uni when I started to realize I was the one teaching myself out of nothing from my professors. I was even tutoring my classmates during vacant periods. And it’s hard to find a job and respect your superiors if they aren’t intellectually superior.
Right
This is my first video comment, it might be off-topic. I'll watch this later. I want to comment before the thought disappears.
I hope my realization helps people.
Being a type 5, I realize I lack energy when I'm not intellectually stimulated. I have lots of energy when I am
Second, aggression. I don't get angry. But I've surprisingly gotten angry twice and verbally expressed it. I was surprised by the first and handled the second more maturely-ish. I realized in both cases that I only got aggressive because I was dealing with something unknown.
The first time was because multiple people gave me different instructions simultaneously. There was no clear outcome or path to take. The other time, I asked for directions at the traffic light and got no response as the traffic grew closer.
My guess is that aggression only shows up for type 5s if they can't escape internally or externally.
Last, on top fives and stress, I sometimes get comments about being all over the place, but I realize it's divergent thinking. It allows me to weigh multiple options without fully committing to one idea until the best option wins. And that's a valuable skill.
Anyway, I watch your videos and want to know what you think. Thank you. Have a good day.
5 Tom Judo'd 7 Tom in that debate 😂 which was funny, but it was pretty accurate. A 5 will seek to undo your entire plan/argument immediately and in 1 question with as few syllables as required. And a very common approach is to undermine the logic of what you're doing.
The "treat them how you want to be treated, I am! I'm not bothering them." And "why do you HAVE to draw us out?" are excellent examples.
To your point about the 5 need to debate, it's not debating just for sport and entertainment (most of the time), it's debate as a proxy for physical evidence for an abstract idea. If given a compelling enough argument, we'll concede and possibly even change positions in real time. But it has to be a very compelling argument. Because 5s examine their ideas constantly. Basically, you need to tell a 5 something they hadn't thought of that advances the 5's agenda or improves their positioning.
I’m an sp 4w3, but some segments of this 5 video was relatable to me. Which made me think it’s because I have a 5 wing. Such interesting and beneficial information!
Thanks
Nope not so much. I do feel like a burden sometimes because I’m chronically ill and a do need help. And I don’t like being in large groups and it makes me uncomfortable.
I do have a pet peve on the what do you feel vs what do you think. It has been vommon place when asking for someone's opinion on something in asking them what they feel about it. I could care less what they feel. I want to know what they think. Obviously Ines thoughts and emotions or feelings are interlaced in a myriad of ways, but they are distinct from each other. They should not be confused. Okay, enneamgram 5 rant over. 😂
A protest may not change opinions but it's good to show that, if you have the same opinion as the protestors, you are not alone. Such protests were very important in 2020 (not the police murder thing, the other stuff) for my mental health.
I dont feel that badly about being taught by people who dont fully understand what theyre teaching because it confirms my postition that Im smarter and have more information lol. I tell myself its hard for one person to know everything and that that's my job. To be the person that knows everything.
Why it is so me? I'm still not sure if I'm 5w4 or 5w6. I was always struggling with maths and engineering kinds of topics. I don't have a technical mind as such at all. I was always into being more creative and unique in some shape or form. I'm more intuitive and most 4s are quite Intuitive compared to 6s in general more sensory in MBTI tests. I'd say 4 wing looks much closer to me but I really don't like being on spotlight and explain myself creatively and articulately like most 4s do. Or do I? Without conscious effort, that's what'd I be doing, who knows... I've heard numerous times that I am a very creative story-teller and many times people around me appreciated my objective broader insights and resourcefulness. It's like as soon as I feel like my wing is 4, I feel way less unique and 4 feels much more individualized than me. But when I think I'm wing 6, it feels like I'm never that mainstream, and I can never be, no matter how much I try. I believe there are people like me who are both 6 and 4 wings at the same time. Could it be?
Lol when I was doing a selective process for my current job I was asked "How do you feel about the company?" and I just froze, like what do you mean by "feel"? I just couldn't get it.
🤣! Life is meaningless. Yes. Though meaningless doesn’t equate nihilism or pessimism.
I find meaning to be subjective. Mostly it’s a human construct to give most a reason to not feel insignificant or that one has a mission of sorts to better the world or have an impact on it. It’s heavy on the “ego” for the aspect of needing to be someone important, to be needed, essential. I rather live a simple life of appreciation and humbleness, were enjoying the beauty of creation and living in harmony with all is my greatest inspiration and way to live besides learning of course🌸
I am supposedly a textbook 5. Are not 5s are highly resistant to conspiracy theories? Do we have any counterexamples?
5 opening questions: what have you been learning today? What are you into lately? Etc....be prepared to be drowned in Info though
So true. I’m a five. My husband had to tell me he can’t follow me past about two minutes, because I can accidentally go for 20 minutes and barely notice him glazing over and getting distracted. So I keep that in mind when we want to connect. And if I need him to hear a longer form thought I prepare him for it.
My obsessiveness led me to watch this and all your other videos 😂
hilariously rrrright..greetings from a swiss 5/6..😁🤩🤭😏👏👏👏
Hello there!
I feel like I oscillator between wing 4 and 6
It's interesting how we can relate to different wings at different times!
5w4, 8. Is there any hope?
Hey, don't stress! You've got this. Just be true to yourself and keep going.
I dont think im a burden... but i go way, way, way! out of my way not to be one
Interesting.
Can you do a video about 4s?
That one is up next!
"splitting atoms in your laboratory" ....im guuna be honest that one creaked me up
You're Welcome
What are you studying now? What have you learned you’d like to share?
I never stop studying...
@@twlahue Thank you for taking the time to reply. I wrote those questions in response to how to “bring out” a 5.
Laughing hard of Tom being so triggered about "life is meaningless" 😄 Just embrace it 😄 Well thanks for the talk. Good stuff as always!
So true!
I also wonder how reliable of an answer you 5 son is. No offense, but his own self awareness seems minimal by the information you've provided of him in previous videos. It may be more reliable to receive information from more mature and self aware 5s.
I feel like I might be partially responsible for you're "walking on eggshells" here, after all of my pushback in the form of "dumps" on a previous enneagram 5 video.. (oops!) Please, please feel free to say exactly what's on your mind without tip toeing. Sure, I might disagree with some of it. After all, I actually "know" what's true for me and (clearly) I've had no trouble saying what's on my mind! You shouldn't either.! And if I DO disagree with any of it, you can handle it...I have faith!.
INTJ 5w4 here: couldn't agree more on every point. People are shallow and superficial, most of their conversation not really engaging to us. Small talk is a nightmare. Seeing, meeting or being around people is so exhausting, hence our very strong social anxiety, all the more if you add the fear of being rejected because of our impostor syndrome ('you're not good enough, study more!'). Life is meaningless until you understand that Life is learning how to reach back to God. Also, "conspiracy theories" is another name for Truth :p
Yeah, people think we're edgelords but we just prefer conversations about unknowns and contentious issues. Get a few drinks in any 5w4 and he becomes Diogenes.
@@christopherkelley1664 That was sincerely funny.
I agree with most everything too. However, my perspective is that what the average person does in the name of bringing forth change in the world is meaningless. It is mostly something that they do as their morality banner. The other thing is that I don't have time to work on conspiracy theories, let me see the evidence and then I'll decide. BTW, I'm an INTJ 5w4 too, how close are you to taking over the world?
@@cmonster67 I've gradually given up on the idea of taking over the world to change it, because things are currently going the way I feel is right. "God has a plan" has never been so tangible to me right now, so... The world is changing on its own, anyway, going through cycles of Good or Evil periods of time. Just go with the flow and try not to drown :)
Our CEO is a 5w6. Dk if that’s inspirational to anyone but
This is extremely interesting and pretty accurate. I keep laughing because it’s me….and accurate. I am a 5, wing 4…..but, I think there’s a wing 6 in there too. So watching RUclips and putting off everything else I should be doing. 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️😂
In my defense, I am making an effort to socialize more, got a dog sitter too. And I started juicing. Easier to buy made. 😂😂😂
Yes, as a 5 I love researching conspiracy theories. Problem is that most of them has turned out to be true 😂
True.
5w6. What question should you ask?! None! Let me be. I'll come out of my shell and initiate conversation when I'm ready. Don't annoy me with meaningless chit-chat. 😂 Sorry 🤷♀️
what a horrible video!!! 😱all that freaking things are happening to me!!! 😭god! that's so scare... but it was funny at the final of some explainations cuz u look like almost frustraded hahahaha may be u were thinking that we wont get it hahaha but we did ! 😎
You shouldn't be teaching if you don't have the information
Right
This is the absolute truth: (I’m a 5w4) The previous video I watched before this was about the fake moon landing and I am currently making a zinc/copper battery on top of my washing machine.
I’m not exaggerating one bit.
That is awesome. Thanks for sharing this.