He's owed some respect for doing that. So many people make a mistake on videos and won't admit it. Admitting you made a mistake does indeed show integrity. I wished more creators would show the same level of that quality.
Happy to set the record straight, Max! If anyone has any guitar law questions that they'd like to discuss, we love responding to viewer's comments. (Imagine someone reading this at 3x speed: for entertainment purposes only. Any opinions provided are based on the information given and do not constitute actual legal advice. When in doubt, defer to your own legal counsel.)
So is the headstock not protected as they try to make people believe? Sure if I’m making a Gibson style guitar, I wouldn’t want the trouble and would avoid the shape but could I if I didn’t put Gibson on the headstock? (3x speed: Of course this question is not intended to get legal advice as I’m not a luthier, just curious on what your opinion is not your legal advice)
I actually am curious by something you said in a more general sense. You said that Gibson wouldn't/couldn't send the police after his Burny guitar, but could they send the police after a Chibson, something that does violate the Lanham Act? I don't own one, so I'm not worried, just genuinely curious.
A true and honest man admits his mistakes, it's a rare commodity today, To many men just blame others for their mishaps, Hence why I watch your video's, I know you shoot straight with me
The "Lawsuit Era" is a bit of a misnomer, as there was never a court case. Gibson's lawyers threatened Ibanez with legal action and Ibanez along with other Japanese makers chose to redesign their headstocks rather than go to court.
This video was made for me! I'm a lawyer that collects "Lawsuit era" and Grey Market Gibson clones. Tokai are my favorite but Burny is damn good. Be careful if you are in the market, many unscrupulous sellers pass of the Chinese versions as Japanese, and it can be tricky to tell them apart in just photos (esp older Burny guitars which lack serial numbers)
Do you have any Grecos? I have a 1978 EG-900, great guitar. Outplayed an EG-1000 and EG -1200 from same era (give or take a year or two) at a store in Tokyo I purchased it at. Ridiculous price difference on an EG-1800 at another shop, such diminishing returns in that price difference, was a no-brainer to get that 900. I looked at some Burny as well, but didn't find a lot of higher end vintage Burny from late 70s or early 80s. The high-end vintage Tokais were priced very high as well. From what I remember they were the most expensive out of the bunch.
I actually own more Grecos than anything ha ha. My fav is a white custom EG700. (I think its a 700? sticker fell off years ago) They are not quite as authentic to vintage spec as Tokai or Burny, but as an instrument they have everything that counts. Craftsmanship is undeniable. @@cancelbubble6535
Excellent clarification video! Having a knowledgeable attorney provide history and details added to your integrity and credibility from my viewpoint. Your effort in getting things right in your videos is truly appreciated. Another good reason to subscribe.
I only started learning how to play the guitar a little over a month ago & I'm documenting my entire journey on here so watching this was super interesting! Being so honest is a great trait, as well. That's the key takeaway... being honest with yourself.
Huh? 4:59 "Just like when Gibson sued Dean?" I thought Gibson successfully sued Dean for using the same headstock. He's implying here that Gibson's inability to sue Fernandes was "just like" Gibson's attempt to sue Dean? But Gibson did successfully sue Dean.
Interesting stuff. I had the same misconception that Gibson had locked up the headstock shape under the premise that it was part of the "trade dress" of their guitars. Was not aware they waited too long to sue, but it doesn't sound like they would have prevailed anyway.
Gibson has. It was a Japanese court that ruled against them. Try selling a guitar with a Gibson headstock or an Explorer or V body and you’ll end up like Dean.
Hello Max. Thanks for the folIow up and the info on the illegal/lawsuit case. I still have my black Electra Les Paul copy made in Japan, that my parents bought me in the early 80s. It plays really good and sounds great. I had to replace the tuners on it but everything else is fine. It’s got the chrome pickup covers and block inlays on a rosewood fingerboard. I’ll never sell it. 🎸👍
So, this means that any music store could sell any Japanese brand that makes either Gibson or Fender copies in the US (like Fernandez, Tokai, and Edwards) since they explicitly put their brand names on the headstock. The only issue would be with Chibson guitars since they use the Gibson brand but don't have Big G's permission.
Absolutely Not! There is a reason no store or on-line retailer sells these guitars in the US. It IS a trademark violation, and they would be sued. These are grey market guitars. They are legal to be imported by consumers because they are not counterfeit goods, but an importer can’t sell them in the US without getting sued. The laches case wouldn’t hold up here because they’re not and haven’t been sold here legally.
The legal field is a quagmire. What one lawyer says is legal, another says is illegal. Judge's decisions and rulings are often challenged and overturned, and sent to higher Courts in what often looks like a long march to see who will run out of money, patience, and endurance first. The innocent are sometimes wrongly convicted, and the guilty are sometimes not prosecuted or let free. Having worked in the legal field myself, the only ones who consistently win are the lawyers.
No need to apologize. But I am confused . Matt mentioned the lawsuit of Gibson vs. Dean. Didn't Dean lose and had to stop the version of the "V"? Why do they have to stop and the companies discussed here don't? Is it because the other companies are from another country? Why do other companies like Harley Benton change the shapes of thier models slightly?
I saw that Burny video and I loved and still love it - and thanks for this interesting video and thanks for all your videos. It's just SO great to see Guitar channels about Guitars and gear. Keep it up buddy, keep em coming cuz we LOOOVE watching...
And here I thought you were just a pretty face. Your a keeper Max! A straight shooter with the fastest hands in the West. RUclips, get this man the recognition he deserves! \m/
I think that first "This guitar is banned" video is one of the very first videos of yours that I watched sometime before subscribing to your channel. I made many of the same assumptions you did, so I can't blame you. I DO, however, praise you for having the integrity to set the record straight and own up to being human. Right on, bro!🤘👍‼️
Thanks for this excellent, informative video, Max! And no need to apologize - it's enough just to admit you were wrong! Love all of your vids and thanks to your helpful advice in so many of your videos, I've bought some very cool and affordable axes!
Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols has played Burny copies of his famed Excalibur (1974 Gibson LP) for over 20 years. He was given the Burnys by Fernandez in the early 90s as Gibson would not give him any recognition. They rectified that with a Signature guitar in the 2000s, but his Burnys were still being used by him then. The point is, he has been a usa resident since 1982, so yeah, Burnys were never illegal in the usa.
Thomann still refuses to ship quite a few of their models to the USA. The chain stores also don't carry them. While not technically banned, some of these are almost impossible to find. Plus, personally, I have avoiding floating tremolos after the turn of the century. Yes I could block them off, but I've migrated back to designs inspired by Leo for some reason - or the stop tail Gibsons.
Takes honor to admit you were wrong. 🙏🏼 I guess the same goes for Greco. A friend of mine has a Greco Les Paul, we done a comparison between my 73 Gibson Les Paul deluxe (has been routed out and Seymour Duncan distortions in it) where I closed my eyes, he handed me each guitar and I played each one not knowing which was which, and I COULD NOT tell the difference. They played identically. We switched multiple times, and it was impossible to tell which guitar I had without looking. The look other than the name was nearly identical. Weight, neck feel, tone, every detail you can feel was EXACTLY the same. I’ve tried to buy that Greco from him for years and he wouldn’t come off it. Unfortunately he has passed away, R.I.P. Jimi Cash, a great friend and great guitarist. His family now has that guitar or I’d try to do a video on it. Thanks for a Great video 🤓🙏🏼
I've got an 80's Burny. I picked it up just cause I saw for it sale locally for a good price and knew about the brand. I wasn't planning on making any guitar purchases, but it's become my main instrument. Really nice.
We all make mistakes. Every single day. What really matters is not the mistake. What really matters is how we handle it when proven factually, irrefutably wrong. Props Max! On point and unquestionably the proper thing to do! XD
I used to own this very guitar but after been diagnosed with a nerve disease I had to quit performing in 2017 so I sold it. I regret selling it and can't afford to buy it again.
surprisingly this type of thing happens all the time. For instance Jeep lost the trademark for their grill the same way, they ignored copies for decades and by the time they sued someone it was just too late and the court told them that.
The law is very often misunderstood here, including by lawyers who deliberately misunderstand it in the interest of their clients, and sometimes they even snow the judges and effectively change the law (e.g. Gibson v. Armadillo.) Kudos to you for correcting yourself. I think I did watch the original video, I might have even dropped a comment telling you you were wrong. ;)
Excellent follow up video Max, great integrity! So how about a link to the original guitar? I saw that video and quickly forgot about it because you'd said it was illegal to buy ine here in the U.S.
Thanks, Max! Great info. I probably would've assumed the same thing. But remember what the definition of assume is. Didn't see that "banned" video, but I'm going to look for it now. An LP with a Floyd Rose? Cool!
Considering Gibson seems to have stolen the body style and headstock from O.W. Appleyton....O.W. Appleton claimed that in 1943 he brought a solid body, single cutaway, electric Spanish style guitar to Gibson as a prototype, 9 whole years before the Les Paul came to market in 1952.
This is a great video - yeah I saw your original vid and would have thought it was true. Now, what's the deal with the headstock shape on Strat clones? Seems that nobody wants to copy the shape since Marlin or Tanglewood did it?
Artist guitars don’t sell their Les Pauls in the US nor Europe. Eko does in Europe and the both guitars look quite similar. Proper bodyshape but different headstocks. Apparently some companies are allowed to use the headstock. Stoner LP for example from a Dutch store Vox Humana. Good thing you put this straight. I seems a bit complicated all in all.
In 1979 (and maybe prior) Tokai had an LP style guitar with an open book headstock and "Les Paul Reborn" in the classic script. I don't know if they got sued or got a letter from Gibson, but the 1980 model was called "Love Rock" so presumably they were aware of what was going on.
Fantastic news Max👏& the fact that Dude put his suit on to address this speaks volumes most professional indeed🎩i have a 1976 made in Japan Les Paul & now feel i can take it out of the case now & then!😆& yes watched that most excellent video many times🤘⛓⚔☠
Correct, it never became a lawsuit and Ibanez had already moved on, but there are many sources with varying info. I have a Matsumoku made Les Paul copy that has an open book headstock
The ending to the Ibanez part of the story was Gibson was going to hit them at the NAMM show in person one year with a C&D based on the headstock after suing Ibanez and leave them with an almost empty booth but that was the year Ibanez changed the headstock shape so the C&D didn't apply.
The Ventura guitar did sued a Japanese manufacturer for making guitars identical and naming them Ventura. In which I own one of their classical guitars since 1997
...also another thing with Civil Law, there is no lawsuit if there can be no damages proven in the form of monetary damages. A big one is the Anime Lawsuit, that is a landmark case for if Japanese companies do not offer the media in other countries they have no legal rights to sue as they have no competing product which means they have no damages in the form of monetary loss.
I thought there was no lawsuit against Ibanez, but a cease-and-desist letter, after which Ibanez decided to change the shape of the headstock of their guitars to avoid a lawsuit.
As I've always heard it, Gibson owns the trademark for that headstock shape here in the U.S., so guitars with the same shape can't legally be marketed here. But, you can buy them used here or new on formats like eBay and Reverb or from other sources outside the U.S. I know that Rose Morris in England sells brand new Tokai Les Pauls. I bought a used one in new condition directly from Ishibashi in Japan and saved around $200 by bypassing their posts on both eBay and Reverb for the same guitar. Point being, legal to own, just can't be sold new here. If I'm wrong, no worries. Correct info is the endgame here.
Does Fernandez still exist? I searched for them and found nothing in the US. I have one of their necks which I put on a cheap strat knock off. It has tiny frets, an infant can fret notes on it. Wanted to check out their sustainer but all I found was something in Japan.
Gibson is going to litigate themselves out of the hearts and minds of guitar players around the “Play Authentic” world. Personally I sold my 2 off to try out some of these CNC made budget guitars, and I’m happy as a kid in a candy shop about my choice. Kinda the same reason I don’t need a Ferrari to get me back and forth to the liquor store for a basic bottle of Jim Beam .
Okay, maybe for the 60 years I've been around, I AM a total dumb ass. So, DEAN has been making Guitars for as long as I can remember. Why is this lawsuit against them any different than the Burney? I'll even throw this in. Back in the early 80's, I bought a "Lawsuit" Ibanez Flying V. I sure as heck wish I still owned it. The only reason I sold it was due to the fact it wouldn't stay in tune for an entire song! It was STOCK with the Ibanez V Case....I'm an idiot. I will say that at least a lifelong friend of mine still owns his Ibanez V, with Case, and he's left it to me in his Will. Bad thing....I'm not going to live long enough to ever get it. Okay...I'll shut up now but still curious about the Dean Lawsuit.
Mad props on owning being wrong. I love being wrong, but a lot of people have infallibility complexes these days. You only ever learn and grow when you are wrong about something, right? Cheers!
I have a Chibson. Several seasoned Gibbo players have played it and had to be told it was a Chibber. I did a shed load to it, cosmetic and major set up. If I ever sold it, which I won't, I would make it clear it was not pukka. I can see how some might not be so scrupulous. Ta.
I was gonna say I was pretty sure that Ibanez settled out of court with Gibson, but cool video none the less! Also, I can’t help but feel animosity towards Gibson. It’s not right to copy an IP from another person or company, but if they don’t defend their IP for 2, 3, or even 4 decades, then they should not even be allowed to sue. That’s on Gibson for not defending their IPs. This is why I think the Dean lawsuit should be ultimately thrown out because it’s bullshit. The only people hurting Gibson’s sales are Gibson themselves. They need to lower the prices across the board, drastically improve their QC, and actually create guitars that people want in the first place. I’m not very impressed with their current lineup.
Very interesting! I learned a lot! You should do more videos like this! Now, if you'll excuse Im going to start my own brand.... how does Fibson Guitars sound? LOL
It’s not illegal to own counterfeit Gibsons or “Chibsons” either. It’s only illegal to sell them, or “traffic” them, ei: import with intent to sell, generally in bulk
Seems alot if crappy guitar company's go out of there way to look like the Gibson brand. You really can't blame them, Gibson by far is the most iconic guitar company in the world...buy a copy,you'll get crap with little to no re-sale value. In the meantime I'll keep stacking Les Paul's until they reach my roof! Proud owner of 13 of them! 👍🏼👍🏼😁
there's a youtube video where a guy finds a pre-gibson instrument with the exact same headstock. gibson -might- be able to trademark it, but it'd be a cranky beast to maintain, seeing as it's not their original design.
That was a freakin great vid. The first I saw of your channel. In my point of view it was "banned" from being sold in the US new. Or at least we thought. Hence the the title. Now....if they are not...Why oh why is Burny not selling this here. I'd buy one. I get suspicious of the ones on ebay from japan asking for $1300 or so and wanting you to give them 90 days to ship. Don't know where they are at now.
Yeah you could literally buy a neck and a Les Paul body blank pre-routed for a Floyd Rose from Warmoth and add your own pickup and sustainer system for less than what Japan wants.
Thanks for bringing a lawyer in, rather than going with Gibson's extravagant claims of intellectual property rights. I've never understood how shapes of objects can be "trademarked". It always seemed like a scammy way to get around the time limits of design patents and an invitation for larger companies to use their financial assets to limit competition through legal bullying.
Hey Max . .Here is a topic you might consider making into a future video . . Are Orville guitars Gibsons? Various accounts I've read consider them to be Gibson guitars, made in Japan (and later in Korea, China, etc) as Budget Gibsons, in the way that Squier are budget Fenders. But hang on . . where does that leave Epiphone, which has been Gibson's budget line following their manufacturing being relocated to Japan in 1970? Food for thought right there?🙂
I seen the original video, but my question is how did Dean get screwed over on the Z and V? Any person could tell that they weren't Gibsons. I assumed that all those Les Paul copies would be lawsuit.
Okay; so much for Burny. --- But, what about the notorious "Chibsons"? We would --- and still would --- have liked to have heard something along the same lines specifically with respect to the so-called "Chibson" phenomenon.
Id assume thats how Harley Benton has all them other copies of things like BC Rich Warlocks and such..or how companies back in the day like Hondo, Mako, did BC Rich copies...id think bocy shape would be more of an infringement than headstock..but apparently neither matters
So yes I did see that video and was kind of disappointed cuz I really was like wanting to get that because I love the Les Paul style. of course everybody does. but with the Floyd Rhode but anyway, this is good news. Thanks for clearing all that up Max.
Way to be big enough to admit when you’ve made a mistake after it has been corrected by someone more knowledgeable in this area. We all think we know what we’re talking about . . . until we find out we had no idea all along, lol!
Ibanez missed the opportunity to say that they werent copying, but they made a Moustache headstock design instead of OpenBook headstock. Anyway Max u r a great person for this video. imo, that Burny Les Paul still rockin great and offers more than gibson. I guess og brand/company just wanna maintain the classic kinda guitar. Exactly like how fender quite reluctant to offer the "super-strat" for consumer, leave it to the downline like Charvel USA guitar.
At least you have the integrity to admit you made a mistake. Kudos
This is true.
Well said!
He's owed some respect for doing that. So many people make a mistake on videos and won't admit it. Admitting you made a mistake does indeed show integrity. I wished more creators would show the same level of that quality.
Happy to set the record straight, Max! If anyone has any guitar law questions that they'd like to discuss, we love responding to viewer's comments. (Imagine someone reading this at 3x speed: for entertainment purposes only. Any opinions provided are based on the information given and do not constitute actual legal advice. When in doubt, defer to your own legal counsel.)
Followed
Explain the patent situation preventing more innovation in headless guitars.
So is the headstock not protected as they try to make people believe?
Sure if I’m making a Gibson style guitar, I wouldn’t want the trouble and would avoid the shape but could I if I didn’t put Gibson on the headstock?
(3x speed: Of course this question is not intended to get legal advice as I’m not a luthier, just curious on what your opinion is not your legal advice)
I actually am curious by something you said in a more general sense. You said that Gibson wouldn't/couldn't send the police after his Burny guitar, but could they send the police after a Chibson, something that does violate the Lanham Act? I don't own one, so I'm not worried, just genuinely curious.
And I might add, why is it that Fernandes isn't selling Les Pauls outside Japan? Their Les Pauls would sell like hot cakes.
A true and honest man admits his mistakes, it's a rare commodity today, To many men just blame others for their mishaps, Hence why I watch your video's, I know you shoot straight with me
Your awesome Max , I love your ability to admit that you were wrong and clarify
The "Lawsuit Era" is a bit of a misnomer, as there was never a court case. Gibson's lawyers threatened Ibanez with legal action and Ibanez along with other Japanese makers chose to redesign their headstocks rather than go to court.
Congrats Max, You're still a winner for us guitar enthusiasts' 👍🎸
This video was made for me!
I'm a lawyer that collects "Lawsuit era" and Grey Market Gibson clones.
Tokai are my favorite but Burny is damn good. Be careful if you are in the market, many unscrupulous sellers pass of the Chinese versions as Japanese, and it can be tricky to tell them apart in just photos
(esp older Burny guitars which lack serial numbers)
Do you have any Grecos? I have a 1978 EG-900, great guitar. Outplayed an EG-1000 and EG -1200 from same era (give or take a year or two) at a store in Tokyo I purchased it at. Ridiculous price difference on an EG-1800 at another shop, such diminishing returns in that price difference, was a no-brainer to get that 900.
I looked at some Burny as well, but didn't find a lot of higher end vintage Burny from late 70s or early 80s. The high-end vintage Tokais were priced very high as well. From what I remember they were the most expensive out of the bunch.
I actually own more Grecos than anything ha ha. My fav is a white custom EG700. (I think its a 700? sticker fell off years ago) They are not quite as authentic to vintage spec as Tokai or Burny, but as an instrument they have everything that counts. Craftsmanship is undeniable.
@@cancelbubble6535
@@cancelbubble6535 A mate has a a Greco LP thats his favourite axe, he has lots of guitars including multiple real Gibsons.
@@cancelbubble6535 Love my 1980 EG-600 3 pup
Excellent clarification video! Having a knowledgeable attorney provide history and details added to your integrity and credibility from my viewpoint. Your effort in getting things right in your videos is truly appreciated. Another good reason to subscribe.
I only started learning how to play the guitar a little over a month ago & I'm documenting my entire journey on here so watching this was super interesting! Being so honest is a great trait, as well. That's the key takeaway... being honest with yourself.
Guitarists can read. I feel more gooder about myself now.😁
Gibson goes and uses those curly letters and expects us to be able to read what that says.
Hey, Max! Good video. Impressive that you go back some distance to own up. What's really cool, is your interest in keeping your info correct.
Huh? 4:59 "Just like when Gibson sued Dean?" I thought Gibson successfully sued Dean for using the same headstock. He's implying here that Gibson's inability to sue Fernandes was "just like" Gibson's attempt to sue Dean? But Gibson did successfully sue Dean.
Interesting stuff. I had the same misconception that Gibson had locked up the headstock shape under the premise that it was part of the "trade dress" of their guitars. Was not aware they waited too long to sue, but it doesn't sound like they would have prevailed anyway.
Gibson has. It was a Japanese court that ruled against them. Try selling a guitar with a Gibson headstock or an Explorer or V body and you’ll end up like Dean.
Hello Max. Thanks for the folIow up and the info on the illegal/lawsuit case. I still have my black Electra Les Paul copy made in Japan, that my parents bought me in the early 80s. It plays really good and sounds great. I had to replace the tuners on it but everything else is fine. It’s got the chrome pickup covers and block inlays on a rosewood fingerboard. I’ll never sell it. 🎸👍
So, this means that any music store could sell any Japanese brand that makes either Gibson or Fender copies in the US (like Fernandez, Tokai, and Edwards) since they explicitly put their brand names on the headstock.
The only issue would be with Chibson guitars since they use the Gibson brand but don't have Big G's permission.
Absolutely Not! There is a reason no store or on-line retailer sells these guitars in the US. It IS a trademark violation, and they would be sued. These are grey market guitars. They are legal to be imported by consumers because they are not counterfeit goods, but an importer can’t sell them in the US without getting sued. The laches case wouldn’t hold up here because they’re not and haven’t been sold here legally.
The legal field is a quagmire. What one lawyer says is legal, another says is illegal. Judge's decisions and rulings are often challenged and overturned, and sent to higher Courts in what often looks like a long march to see who will run out of money, patience, and endurance first. The innocent are sometimes wrongly convicted, and the guilty are sometimes not prosecuted or let free. Having worked in the legal field myself, the only ones who consistently win are the lawyers.
No need to apologize. But I am confused . Matt mentioned the lawsuit of Gibson vs. Dean. Didn't Dean lose and had to stop the version of the "V"? Why do they have to stop and the companies discussed here don't? Is it because the other companies are from another country? Why do other companies like Harley Benton change the shapes of thier models slightly?
I saw that Burny video and I loved and still love it - and thanks for this interesting video and thanks for all your videos. It's just SO great to see Guitar channels about Guitars and gear. Keep it up buddy, keep em coming cuz we LOOOVE watching...
And here I thought you were just a pretty face. Your a keeper Max! A straight shooter with the fastest hands in the West. RUclips, get this man the recognition he deserves! \m/
I think that first "This guitar is banned" video is one of the very first videos of yours that I watched sometime before subscribing to your channel. I made many of the same assumptions you did, so I can't blame you. I DO, however, praise you for having the integrity to set the record straight and own up to being human. Right on, bro!🤘👍‼️
Thank you!
Some great info here, great job Max and Blues Lawyer man! Thanks!
Cool crossover to see two of my favorite channels working together 🙌🙌
Thanks for this excellent, informative video, Max! And no need to apologize - it's enough just to admit you were wrong! Love all of your vids and thanks to your helpful advice in so many of your videos, I've bought some very cool and affordable axes!
Thanks, Max for the info on a very interesting subject on lawsuit models, guitar or bass.🙈🙉🙊
Good video, Max, and thanks for clarifying the situation!!
Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols has played Burny copies of his famed Excalibur (1974 Gibson LP) for over 20 years. He was given the Burnys by Fernandez in the early 90s as Gibson would not give him any recognition. They rectified that with a Signature guitar in the 2000s, but his Burnys were still being used by him then. The point is, he has been a usa resident since 1982, so yeah, Burnys were never illegal in the usa.
Thomann still refuses to ship quite a few of their models to the USA. The chain stores also don't carry them. While not technically banned, some of these are almost impossible to find. Plus, personally, I have avoiding floating tremolos after the turn of the century. Yes I could block them off, but I've migrated back to designs inspired by Leo for some reason - or the stop tail Gibsons.
Takes honor to admit you were wrong. 🙏🏼 I guess the same goes for Greco.
A friend of mine has a Greco Les Paul, we done a comparison between my 73 Gibson Les Paul deluxe (has been routed out and Seymour Duncan distortions in it) where I closed my eyes, he handed me each guitar and I played each one not knowing which was which, and I COULD NOT tell the difference. They played identically. We switched multiple times, and it was impossible to tell which guitar I had without looking. The look other than the name was nearly identical. Weight, neck feel, tone, every detail you can feel was EXACTLY the same.
I’ve tried to buy that Greco from him for years and he wouldn’t come off it. Unfortunately he has passed away, R.I.P. Jimi Cash, a great friend and great guitarist. His family now has that guitar or I’d try to do a video on it. Thanks for a Great video 🤓🙏🏼
I've got an 80's Burny. I picked it up just cause I saw for it sale locally for a good price and knew about the brand. I wasn't planning on making any guitar purchases, but it's become my main instrument. Really nice.
I saw the original video and I forgive you. Also, I bought an LP style guitar by Grote because of your review and I love it.
We all make mistakes. Every single day. What really matters is not the mistake. What really matters is how we handle it when proven factually, irrefutably wrong. Props Max! On point and unquestionably the proper thing to do! XD
I used to own this very guitar but after been diagnosed with a nerve disease I had to quit performing in 2017 so I sold it. I regret selling it and can't afford to buy it again.
surprisingly this type of thing happens all the time. For instance Jeep lost the trademark for their grill the same way, they ignored copies for decades and by the time they sued someone it was just too late and the court told them that.
The law is very often misunderstood here, including by lawyers who deliberately misunderstand it in the interest of their clients, and sometimes they even snow the judges and effectively change the law (e.g. Gibson v. Armadillo.)
Kudos to you for correcting yourself.
I think I did watch the original video, I might have even dropped a comment telling you you were wrong. ;)
Excellent follow up video Max, great integrity! So how about a link to the original guitar? I saw that video and quickly forgot about it because you'd said it was illegal to buy ine here in the U.S.
Thanks, Max! Great info.
I probably would've assumed the same thing. But remember what the definition of assume is.
Didn't see that "banned" video, but I'm going to look for it now. An LP with a Floyd Rose? Cool!
You are letting your integrity show Max. Thank you.
Considering Gibson seems to have stolen the body style and headstock from O.W. Appleyton....O.W. Appleton claimed that in 1943 he brought a solid body, single cutaway, electric Spanish style guitar to Gibson as a prototype, 9 whole years before the Les Paul came to market in 1952.
This is a great video - yeah I saw your original vid and would have thought it was true. Now, what's the deal with the headstock shape on Strat clones? Seems that nobody wants to copy the shape since Marlin or Tanglewood did it?
I do recall that video bro. It’s been awhile but I do recall it.
Artist guitars don’t sell their Les Pauls in the US nor Europe. Eko does in Europe and the both guitars look quite similar. Proper bodyshape but different headstocks.
Apparently some companies are allowed to use the headstock. Stoner LP for example from a Dutch store Vox Humana.
Good thing you put this straight. I seems a bit complicated all in all.
I have loved your channel for years, because of your genuine humility. This is a great example of it!
In 1979 (and maybe prior) Tokai had an LP style guitar with an open book headstock and "Les Paul Reborn" in the classic script. I don't know if they got sued or got a letter from Gibson, but the 1980 model was called "Love Rock" so presumably they were aware of what was going on.
Crazy that Burny even used the same Gibson Font. Cool episode Max!🤘
I like the honesty, kudos for correcting your self so we could have a trip down memory lane of your hairs volume.
Fantastic news Max👏& the fact that Dude put his suit on to address this speaks volumes most professional indeed🎩i have a 1976 made in Japan Les Paul & now feel i can take it out of the case now & then!😆& yes watched that most excellent video many times🤘⛓⚔☠
Whoa! Guitar MAX and lawyers!?!
Closest I've known of Guitar MAX being in a suit!
The only real bummer about this video is that I didn't get to see some your awesome shredding. Great information though. Keep on Rockn!
I must commend you for correcting your mistakes and maintaining your integrity. Well done!
I believe it was just a cease and desist letter, not a lawsuit, Max.
Can I ask if that could have led to a lawsuit if no cease and desist was visible?
@@juancarlosdelgado7791 No doubt.
Correct, it never became a lawsuit and Ibanez had already moved on, but there are many sources with varying info.
I have a Matsumoku made Les Paul copy that has an open book headstock
@@dw7704 Very nice.
The ending to the Ibanez part of the story was Gibson was going to hit them at the NAMM show in person one year with a C&D based on the headstock after suing Ibanez and leave them with an almost empty booth but that was the year Ibanez changed the headstock shape so the C&D didn't apply.
A man stands behind his word/work . respect my brother . 🇨🇦🎸🎸🎸🎼
The Ventura guitar did sued a Japanese manufacturer for making guitars identical and naming them Ventura. In which I own one of their classical guitars since 1997
...also another thing with Civil Law, there is no lawsuit if there can be no damages proven in the form of monetary damages. A big one is the Anime Lawsuit, that is a landmark case for if Japanese companies do not offer the media in other countries they have no legal rights to sue as they have no competing product which means they have no damages in the form of monetary loss.
I love listening to lawyers. No fake news, no alternative truths, or even outright lies. Just the facts, Jack!😝🤘🏻🎸🇺🇸
I saw that video. It takes a big man to admit when their wrong , kudos to you for that.
Nice work, interesting info. No fault to you Max, you're not a lawyer. Especially international business law in the 1970s!
Thanks Mak and Blueslawyer!
I watched the first video and was right there with you. Wow. You learn something new every day, I guess.
I seen the video when you first put it out and all it did was make me want a Burny.
I owned a Fernandes Flying V style with their Floyd Rose Head crasher, it was amazing.
I thought there was no lawsuit against Ibanez, but a cease-and-desist letter, after which Ibanez decided to change the shape of the headstock of their guitars to avoid a lawsuit.
As I've always heard it, Gibson owns the trademark for that headstock shape here in the U.S., so guitars with the same shape can't legally be marketed here. But, you can buy them used here or new on formats like eBay and Reverb or from other sources outside the U.S.
I know that Rose Morris in England sells brand new Tokai Les Pauls. I bought a used one in new condition directly from Ishibashi in Japan and saved around $200 by bypassing their posts on both eBay and Reverb for the same guitar.
Point being, legal to own, just can't be sold new here. If I'm wrong, no worries. Correct info is the endgame here.
Does Fernandez still exist? I searched for them and found nothing in the US. I have one of their necks which I put on a cheap strat knock off. It has tiny frets, an infant can fret notes on it. Wanted to check out their sustainer but all I found was something in Japan.
Gibson is going to litigate themselves out of the hearts and minds of guitar players around the “Play Authentic” world.
Personally I sold my 2 off to try out some of these CNC made budget guitars, and I’m happy as a kid in a candy shop about my choice.
Kinda the same reason I don’t need a Ferrari to get me back and forth to the liquor store for a basic bottle of Jim Beam .
@@creamwobbly
I’m a creature of habit and have been drinking JB and cola for over 4 decades 🥃 Cheers
Okay, maybe for the 60 years I've been around, I AM a total dumb ass.
So, DEAN has been making Guitars for as long as I can remember.
Why is this lawsuit against them any different than the Burney?
I'll even throw this in.
Back in the early 80's, I bought a "Lawsuit" Ibanez Flying V.
I sure as heck wish I still owned it. The only reason I sold it was due to the fact it wouldn't stay in tune for an entire song! It was STOCK with the Ibanez V Case....I'm an idiot.
I will say that at least a lifelong friend of mine still owns his Ibanez V, with Case, and he's left it to me in his Will.
Bad thing....I'm not going to live long enough to ever get it.
Okay...I'll shut up now but still curious about the Dean Lawsuit.
I used to have a left handed Ibanez “Les Paul Custom” black with white binding and a left handed Ibanez Flying V 1980. Nice guitars
I thought I was wrong once,
but I was mistaken!
🤣😁🤣
As a lawyer myself I approve and appreciate this message 🙂
Mad props on owning being wrong. I love being wrong, but a lot of people have infallibility complexes these days. You only ever learn and grow when you are wrong about something, right? Cheers!
I have a Chibson. Several seasoned Gibbo players have played it and had to be told it was a Chibber. I did a shed load to it, cosmetic and major set up. If I ever sold it, which I won't, I would make it clear it was not pukka. I can see how some might not be so scrupulous.
Ta.
A guitar lawyer, with his collection of Lawyer guitars. Most excellent.❤❤❤🎸🎸🎸🤘🤘🤘
I was gonna say I was pretty sure that Ibanez settled out of court with Gibson, but cool video none the less! Also, I can’t help but feel animosity towards Gibson. It’s not right to copy an IP from another person or company, but if they don’t defend their IP for 2, 3, or even 4 decades, then they should not even be allowed to sue. That’s on Gibson for not defending their IPs. This is why I think the Dean lawsuit should be ultimately thrown out because it’s bullshit. The only people hurting Gibson’s sales are Gibson themselves. They need to lower the prices across the board, drastically improve their QC, and actually create guitars that people want in the first place. I’m not very impressed with their current lineup.
Great video... thanks for setting the record straight...
Hey, no one is perfect. Thanks for the update 🙂
Very interesting! I learned a lot! You should do more videos like this! Now, if you'll excuse Im going to start my own brand.... how does Fibson Guitars sound? LOL
It’s not illegal to own counterfeit Gibsons or “Chibsons” either. It’s only illegal to sell them, or “traffic” them, ei: import with intent to sell, generally in bulk
Seems alot if crappy guitar company's go out of there way to look like the Gibson brand. You really can't blame them, Gibson by far is the most iconic guitar company in the world...buy a copy,you'll get crap with little to no re-sale value. In the meantime I'll keep stacking Les Paul's until they reach my roof! Proud owner of 13 of them! 👍🏼👍🏼😁
I own a Burny Les Paul (John Sykes model) and it is PHENOMENAL!
Always liked you, and your channel, Max. This just solidifies that sentiment. And thanks to @blueslawyer. Some very cool information.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Just gave us another great and informational video to watch on your channel!
Very informative video. Thank you brother. By the way, that Burny with the sustainer sounds exactly like my Schecter Reaper FR-S. Rock On! 🤟🎸
there's a youtube video where a guy finds a pre-gibson instrument with the exact same headstock. gibson -might- be able to trademark it, but it'd be a cranky beast to maintain, seeing as it's not their original design.
Eh' no big deal Max! Keep on reviewing brother.
That was a freakin great vid. The first I saw of your channel. In my point of view it was "banned" from being sold in the US new. Or at least we thought. Hence the the title. Now....if they are not...Why oh why is Burny not selling this here. I'd buy one. I get suspicious of the ones on ebay from japan asking for $1300 or so and wanting you to give them 90 days to ship. Don't know where they are at now.
Yeah you could literally buy a neck and a Les Paul body blank pre-routed for a Floyd Rose from Warmoth and add your own pickup and sustainer system for less than what Japan wants.
@@JoeR203 I love Warmoth..I built 3! Sold one...but still have my tele and strat builds.
Thanks for bringing a lawyer in, rather than going with Gibson's extravagant claims of intellectual property rights.
I've never understood how shapes of objects can be "trademarked". It always seemed like a scammy way to get around the time limits of design patents and an invitation for larger companies to use their financial assets to limit competition through legal bullying.
Unique guitar probably has a rare guitar value . Sweet of you to verify its authenticity. Tx shed master Max.
Hey Max . .Here is a topic you might consider making into a future video . . Are Orville guitars Gibsons? Various accounts I've read consider them to be Gibson guitars, made in Japan (and later in Korea, China, etc) as Budget Gibsons, in the way that Squier are budget Fenders. But hang on . . where does that leave Epiphone, which has been Gibson's budget line following their manufacturing being relocated to Japan in 1970?
Food for thought right there?🙂
Then why do we not these in large supply in our American music stores?
At least you are humble and admitted the mistake .
I seen the original video, but my question is how did Dean get screwed over on the Z and V? Any person could tell that they weren't Gibsons. I assumed that all those Les Paul copies would be lawsuit.
Okay; so much for Burny. --- But, what about the notorious "Chibsons"? We would --- and still would --- have liked to have heard something along the same lines specifically with respect to the so-called "Chibson" phenomenon.
I've got Burny which is a clone of 335, really pleasure to play.
Did watched the original video aswell. Fernandas was an amazing guitars
0:50 So Burny is related to Fernandes, who makes Fernandes and Burny? Gotcha. ;-P
Id assume thats how Harley Benton has all them other copies of things like BC Rich Warlocks and such..or how companies back in the day like Hondo, Mako, did BC Rich copies...id think bocy shape would be more of an infringement than headstock..but apparently neither matters
The lawyer has my red ELP 05 Classic hanging on his wall ! 👀🤯
So yes I did see that video and was kind of disappointed cuz I really was like wanting to get that because I love the Les Paul style. of course everybody does. but with the Floyd Rhode but anyway, this is good news. Thanks for clearing all that up Max.
Way to be big enough to admit when you’ve made a mistake after it has been corrected by someone more knowledgeable in this area. We all think we know what we’re talking about . . . until we find out we had no idea all along, lol!
7:49 I see no 10k PRS in the back ground. Questioning his status as a partitioner of law
Ibanez missed the opportunity to say that they werent copying, but they made a Moustache headstock design instead of OpenBook headstock. Anyway Max u r a great person for this video. imo, that Burny Les Paul still rockin great and offers more than gibson. I guess og brand/company just wanna maintain the classic kinda guitar. Exactly like how fender quite reluctant to offer the "super-strat" for consumer, leave it to the downline like Charvel USA guitar.