13:22 Crosses over into emo 😂 had a little Tom DeLonge going on there for a second 🤣 In all seriousness though, this is such a thorough explanation. Really excellent. Thank you🙏🏻
I have noticed other differences between pop/theatre/opera in terms of the training. Opera (at least for men) requires a very strong chest/TA, often carrying a VERY strong chesty mix up very high. Alot of musical theatre also utilizes a very strong chest / belting configuration. Much of the pop vocal training emphasizes "reducing weight", "narrowing as you go higher", "bridging early" in order to avoid singers becoming too shouty, which means there is an emphasis on thin sounds. After spending years focusing on "reducing weight", etc, I feel like I have ended up with not only a chest voice that is a bit weak, but a tendency to avoid being chesty as I go higher due to it being drilled in to my head to avoid that. There is a fine line for the teacher to navigate, but it seems more well understood in theatre/opera that there needs to be focus in all areas, not just the high notes or mix.
Yep, often singers get frustrated focusing on coordinating and balancing the middle voice when they want to shoot of into the higher frequencies. I like to say all the sounds are on the table because that gives you all kinds of information. You may make a wide brassy shouty sound, and while the overall coordination wouldn't suit a classical style, there is information there and even some coordination that it would share. Once you start making sounds in all kinds of styles, you notice all kinds of overlap. In my experience, I find this idea of maintaining a lot of chest in higher mode 1 for classical singing really screws a lot of singers up. (I hear many eager lower voices trying that in practice rooms at the conservatory all the time.) It's pretty astounding how little vibratory activity can yield a very robust and balanced sound. I remembered this at an audition last week when I was trying to push an A-flat to sound super beefy. When I chilled out my vocal fold contact, it rang and had some more generosity to it. Singing is often counter-intuitive, and cooperating with physics and physiology often goes against our brain's initial instincts about how sounds are made.
Thanks Dan. Always appreciated. This was very informative. I'm test driving some Steve Walsh vocals. I always enjoy challenging myself. Admittedly, I'm much more comfortable with some of them a half step down. So my question as a giggjng singer/vocal nerd is: Do you ever stop chasing range? Do you keep at it? What's your personal philosophy on this issue? Amazing how it always seems less challenging when you take it down just one stinkin' half step; and going for it, when you're topping out? To just get one half step? Not easy....lol! Sorry if I'm rambling.
@@chutechi I'll have my appt calendar updated right after the new year, so you can hop on there and grab a 15 minute chat time if you like dancallaway.com/work-with-me/
Primitively, I would also say that one must also have the ability to ‘make’ (for lack of a better term) squillo the most in opera, then musical theatre and last in pop singing.
Yeah, I didn't even dip a toe into squillo -- I think there have to be so many overlaps in what creates that bright metallic color in classical singing together with the brighter sounds we bring into other styles. Kerrie Obert's work on pharyngeal shaping has been pretty mind-opening for me lately -- i recommend google or search for interviews. She's doing some terrific research.
Tbh, meanwhile I don't like most of operasingers, especially Sopranos anymore, the have so much unnecessary Vibrato, it hurts my ears. The singers a 100 years ago had much better voices and better techniques. Clear sound without a Vibrato that makes you think they're out of tune and try to find the pitch through Vibrato by accident! When I compare the voices of maybe Anna Netrebko and Mariah Carrie.... no long to think, who wins! I want opera singers go back to the old style, where the important thing was a "Beautiful voice"
It is very interesting to listen to the wax cylinder recordings of say Caruso or Lehmann -- Though we're still limited by the tech parameters they were working with -- wondering what it sounded like in the hall. Very interesting to see how style shifts and for what reasons. I know I paid more attention to opera after hearing Maria Callas's La Mamma Morta on the PHILADELPHIA motion pic soundtrack -- this sounds real! I thought. When an artist of any style opens the door of their heart with masterful skill, I mean, that's it, right?
You know, this is a great question. Metal is quite operatic in its vibe, I'd say. But yeah, a lot of sounds that don't appear in classical coordinations. I'd say the info about breath support is super helpful because it's important to see how efficient you can be in metal, esp since you're amplified, you can get a lot of bang for little buck. Tract shape info is super crucial, too so understand what promotes screaming, calling out, or even low grunt sounds. I find the Complete Vocal Technique breakdowns of vocal effects to be very helpful -- describing distortion, grunt, growl, rattle, etc. Like I said in the end of the video, it's really most important to understand which coordination makes or promotes which sound, so then you can play with all kinds of coordinations and find what most authentically shares the style and song.
Apoggio sounds better in all styles, hands down... You didn't talked about the mic at all, that was surprizing, cause it changes everything cause those legit high notes will not fill the MET or the collon.
Yeah, I'm not trying to say one way of support sounds better than the other, but to share that there are different options available depending on what you're singing. If you find your coordination of appoggio always sounds the way you want it to sound, terrific. And I figured it was assumed that musical theatre and pop styles often use electronic amplification, though not always. I've performed musical theatre acoustically as well. And filling the Met is outside the scope of my experience and expertise. There are plenty of folks who can speak with more authority about the human voice boosting frequencies above an orchestra. I can only teach what I've experienced to work and demonstrate the training I've found to work best. That's my lane. Isn't it great that there are so many teachers and singers out there who can offer their point of view? Happy singing.
Thanks so much, Dan! I am honored! Your open-mindedness and honesty are truly refreshing.
It's my pleasure -- thanks so much for the question.
13:22 Crosses over into emo 😂
had a little Tom DeLonge going on there for a second 🤣
In all seriousness though, this is such a thorough explanation. Really excellent. Thank you🙏🏻
Absolutely haha -- had to refresh my Blink-182 memories for a sec. Thanks for the kind comment, and hope this was helpful
I have noticed other differences between pop/theatre/opera in terms of the training. Opera (at least for men) requires a very strong chest/TA, often carrying a VERY strong chesty mix up very high. Alot of musical theatre also utilizes a very strong chest / belting configuration. Much of the pop vocal training emphasizes "reducing weight", "narrowing as you go higher", "bridging early" in order to avoid singers becoming too shouty, which means there is an emphasis on thin sounds. After spending years focusing on "reducing weight", etc, I feel like I have ended up with not only a chest voice that is a bit weak, but a tendency to avoid being chesty as I go higher due to it being drilled in to my head to avoid that.
There is a fine line for the teacher to navigate, but it seems more well understood in theatre/opera that there needs to be focus in all areas, not just the high notes or mix.
Yep, often singers get frustrated focusing on coordinating and balancing the middle voice when they want to shoot of into the higher frequencies. I like to say all the sounds are on the table because that gives you all kinds of information. You may make a wide brassy shouty sound, and while the overall coordination wouldn't suit a classical style, there is information there and even some coordination that it would share. Once you start making sounds in all kinds of styles, you notice all kinds of overlap. In my experience, I find this idea of maintaining a lot of chest in higher mode 1 for classical singing really screws a lot of singers up. (I hear many eager lower voices trying that in practice rooms at the conservatory all the time.) It's pretty astounding how little vibratory activity can yield a very robust and balanced sound. I remembered this at an audition last week when I was trying to push an A-flat to sound super beefy. When I chilled out my vocal fold contact, it rang and had some more generosity to it. Singing is often counter-intuitive, and cooperating with physics and physiology often goes against our brain's initial instincts about how sounds are made.
Thanks Dan. Always appreciated. This was very informative. I'm test driving some Steve Walsh vocals. I always enjoy challenging myself. Admittedly, I'm much more comfortable with some of them a half step down. So my question as a giggjng singer/vocal nerd is: Do you ever stop chasing range? Do you keep at it? What's your personal philosophy on this issue? Amazing how it always seems less challenging when you take it down just one stinkin' half step; and going for it, when you're topping out? To just get one half step? Not easy....lol! Sorry if I'm rambling.
Great work. Outstanding presentation. Fantastic examples. Wonderful demonstration s. Amazing talent on display.
Thanks so much for the kind comment -- hope this video was helpful
@ Pedagogy Pro! Would love to get your ears on my vocal development.
@@chutechi I'll be gearing back up with teaching mid-January if you want to set up a time to chat
Dan great !!! Sure when???
@@chutechi I'll have my appt calendar updated right after the new year, so you can hop on there and grab a 15 minute chat time if you like dancallaway.com/work-with-me/
Primitively, I would also say that one must also have the ability to ‘make’ (for lack of a better term) squillo the most in opera, then musical theatre and last in pop singing.
Yeah, I didn't even dip a toe into squillo -- I think there have to be so many overlaps in what creates that bright metallic color in classical singing together with the brighter sounds we bring into other styles. Kerrie Obert's work on pharyngeal shaping has been pretty mind-opening for me lately -- i recommend google or search for interviews. She's doing some terrific research.
Fantastic stuff as always
thank you thank you -- hope this was helpful
Thanks a lot and merry Christmas
Of course -- Merry Christmas!
Thank you as always!
of course! Hope you're having a good holiday season
Tbh, meanwhile I don't like most of operasingers, especially Sopranos anymore, the have so much unnecessary Vibrato, it hurts my ears. The singers a 100 years ago had much better voices and better techniques. Clear sound without a Vibrato that makes you think they're out of tune and try to find the pitch through Vibrato by accident! When I compare the voices of maybe Anna Netrebko and Mariah Carrie.... no long to think, who wins! I want opera singers go back to the old style, where the important thing was a "Beautiful voice"
It is very interesting to listen to the wax cylinder recordings of say Caruso or Lehmann -- Though we're still limited by the tech parameters they were working with -- wondering what it sounded like in the hall. Very interesting to see how style shifts and for what reasons. I know I paid more attention to opera after hearing Maria Callas's La Mamma Morta on the PHILADELPHIA motion pic soundtrack -- this sounds real! I thought. When an artist of any style opens the door of their heart with masterful skill, I mean, that's it, right?
May classical basics be helpful for developing extreme singing styles, like those in metal music?🤔
You know, this is a great question. Metal is quite operatic in its vibe, I'd say. But yeah, a lot of sounds that don't appear in classical coordinations. I'd say the info about breath support is super helpful because it's important to see how efficient you can be in metal, esp since you're amplified, you can get a lot of bang for little buck. Tract shape info is super crucial, too so understand what promotes screaming, calling out, or even low grunt sounds. I find the Complete Vocal Technique breakdowns of vocal effects to be very helpful -- describing distortion, grunt, growl, rattle, etc. Like I said in the end of the video, it's really most important to understand which coordination makes or promotes which sound, so then you can play with all kinds of coordinations and find what most authentically shares the style and song.
@@dancallawaystudio thank you!
Apoggio sounds better in all styles, hands down... You didn't talked about the mic at all, that was surprizing, cause it changes everything cause those legit high notes will not fill the MET or the collon.
Yeah, I'm not trying to say one way of support sounds better than the other, but to share that there are different options available depending on what you're singing. If you find your coordination of appoggio always sounds the way you want it to sound, terrific. And I figured it was assumed that musical theatre and pop styles often use electronic amplification, though not always. I've performed musical theatre acoustically as well. And filling the Met is outside the scope of my experience and expertise. There are plenty of folks who can speak with more authority about the human voice boosting frequencies above an orchestra. I can only teach what I've experienced to work and demonstrate the training I've found to work best. That's my lane. Isn't it great that there are so many teachers and singers out there who can offer their point of view? Happy singing.
Unfortunately for me Mr Dan reminds me that you need healthy ribs and diaphragm and neck. Those things I don’t have. 😂
That's a very salient point -- the video does make a lot of assumptions. What coordinations do you rely on/use when you sing?