For all those wondering about where to find the background music: It’s the «alternate soundtrack» I made this year. Link here: ruclips.net/p/PLWtrQe3WXMYaSwrf2EOAFs0xMX7OXrQ9e :)
I can't even imagine the commitment it takes to get this sort of thing done. I always loved hardware but could not handle sitting for long periods programming. Hats off on this one!
Software programing is a monster that is so hard to commit to. I commend all these folks willing to look deeper than hardware to get this beautiful project done. I sure couldn't have done something like this
I have just the opposite issue, having been a software engineer for close to 40 years, i have no desire for hardware. As a matter of fact the most hardware knowledge I have, i got right here. I started out on a commodore pet in 78.
Also the opposite here. I use to sit before the screen for hours to make a certain thing work in code. Hardware and electronics on the other hand are nothing for me. I just don't get this stuff. I like to code in assembly though because it's almost as close to the hardware as you can get.
Atari computers are lovely. I miss mine so much. I swear I'm going to get another one. Can't afford a new old stock Falcon, BUT I want an ST or even anything else on the 8 bit spectrum would do. I got my first one for free back in the late 90's and with a ton of software AND a 5.25 inch disk drive. I played Forbidden Forrest for hours on end.... Why did I not hang onto it... I miss it so much. I swear, somehow, I will have either an ST with TOS running on it OR another 8 bit computer to play Forbidden Forrest again. Not too sure which to aim for first. The 16 bit machines with the midi interfaces are so tempting, BUT the 8 bit systems are so fun and too much nostalgia leans me in that direction. PLUS Petscii Robots running on an 8 bit Atari is tempting as well. Sorry to keep rambling and take up so much time, but I can't suppress my inner geek watching this stuff and go much longer without an 8 bit computer. I still have some of the carts and a few other things, so I'm going to make the plunge soon and I can't wait to play me some Petscii Robots among a few other old favorites. I'm a big fan of 8-Bit Guy, Ben Heck Hacks and many other on RUclips. Thank you all for making us all so much more passionate about our hobbies in technology.
The Atari 8 bits were very advanced systems considering they came out in 1979. The C64 came out two years later, yet in many ways it was no more capable than the Atari machines. Of course, a number of those Atari engineers went on to design the Amiga... which CBM snatched from Atari in a cruel twist of fate. 😁
When you were talking about reusing the box my immediate thought was "and?" AS a Mac guy Im guessing half the games i bought in the 90s were in MSDOS/Windows boxes with a Mac sticker on them. Too me it just means you are a big time software developer!
lol not only that, but so many Mac games were simply source ports of the MS-DOS version. Like, the game entered into some kind of MS-DOS pseudo-emulation mode and the game played within that. Not very often was there a game for the Mac which was NATIVELY written for it, or at least the port was a natively rewritten version. So as a fellow old skool Mac guy, I too am all too used to buying the "hand me down" versions. :P
I was more amused when he first revealed the game. "Oh hey guys I have this idea for a game....and here's a working prototype for 3 different computers"
@@richardhead8264: Um... hello... as of this video he had announced a possible NES version as one that was _not_ made or even planned yet. So DUHH. (Also, the one of the 6 ports is really just the unofficial one of the 2 Atari versions, so I've edited my comment to reflect that now. But if you're counting only official ones, the number -- which includes only one of the Ataris -- is FIVE, and that's what you should edit your OP to say.)
I'm blown away precisely because of how much you have achieved with the limitations you were working against. From the very beginning, this project has, frankly, impressed the hell out of me.
Isn't Doom's source code public domain? Hence why you see videos of Doom running on almost anything. Come to think about it, Doom is a false 3D engine in that there is only one layer of level geometry. You can't have a floor on top of another. And Petscii has multiple levels accessed using elevators, so it completely voids the premise. Unless each level is its own level.
@@mfaizsyahmi Hexen would probably be better suited for it. That game added a hub system to the Doom engine which, if the map design of Petscii Robots allows it, could enable a 3D interpretation of the game in that engine, using elevators instead of warp portals to move between the "levels" of the lab.
@@mfaizsyahmi The ZDoom branch of source ports has supported multiple floors above each other for several years now. There are some invasion maps that take advantage of this for some added verticality. Petscii Robots has logical floors like Paradroid, but you never see more than one floor displayed at a time. That kind of arrangement can be reproduced in vanilla Doom, simply have multiple floors implemented as different areas on the same map, connected by teleporters. But I agree with @Michel van Briemen, Hexen hub structure with the player warping between persistent levels would work too. Anyway, very impressed by 8-bit guy porting his games to multiple platforms like in the old days! Atari 8-bit version could have a rainbow color effect by using display lists, but that would probably look rather tacky in this case. Maybe for the EMP bomb, to represent many different EM frequencies disrupting the robots.
OneLoneCoder (javidx9) has a pretty good video series on raycasting 3D over ASCII it's in C++ but could be ported to ASM: ruclips.net/video/xW8skO7MFYw/видео.html
ZDoom/others aren't running on a 6502 though. The latest versions barely even run on a Raspberry Pi since they do so much crazy stuff. Also I've heard that ZDoom in particular isn't even a 100% faithful Doom engine port. Apparently all the fixed point math that the Doom engine uses was stripped out, and replaced with floating point, which makes you wonder if its even the same engine anymore.
Hoo boy. Be prepared to be flooded with emails asking for the source code for porting it to the NES. Also, TIL that the SNES' CPU is a direct cousin of the Apple IIGS CPU.
I think "Unified box design with different stickers applied" is probably the best plan for any releases you do in the future to cut down on costs. Sure, it'll make things a little less special, buuuuuuuuuut it encourages you to do more stuff in the future I guess?
He should do a standard run, as he does it now, and then six months in, switch to the "budget" version. Otherwise I suspect a lot of retro enthusiasts would give it a miss in favour of just getting hold of the rom. The physical package is a big draw for a lot of people.
Nice to see the Atari getting some love. Seeing a demo machine playing star raiders in the local department store was when I decided I wanted a computer back in 1980. Well, that and Cloudy Mountain on the Intellivision.
I'm very tempted to offer the BBC Micro. I'm in the process of restoring one, and have been spending a lot of time learning about its capabilities. I've been looking for a project to learn 6502 assembly. I guess the biggest challenge would be RAM -- assuming we're targetting a stock BBC B, which ships with 32kb RAM… if we use Mode 1 (40 column text; 4 colours) we lose 20k of that to screen memory, plus a bit extra for the disk filing system, operating system, etc. Mode 4 would only use 10k but give us monochrome graphics. If we used mode 7, that only uses 1k, but has no graphics commands and the character set is not re-assignable. (Also, although colour is supported, you have to use invisible 'control characters' to change colour, and these take up space.) It has some very blocky graphics characters available which we could use. I guess one advantage is that mode 7 graphics are as iconic to the Beeb as PETSCII is to the Commodore platforms! Of course, targetting something higher spec than the BBC B would be easier, but where's the fun in that? Anyhow, I probably can't commit to how much time I could spend on this at the moment -- work is very busy, etc etc, you know the story. But if there was no commitment necessary, it'd be fun to play around with :)
Mode 7 graphics is Teletext which is only available on the BBC, not on the Electron, though you'll have a real time trying to get it on the Electron. There is a part of me that would like to0 see this on the ZX Spectrum, though you'd need some real porting. I think all of the computers it's been ported to (apart from the IBM PC) have been 6502 based and the Speccy is Z80 based.
@@xXTheoLinuxXx " On the other hand, if it was written for mode 4 it should be usable for the Acorn Electron too (ofcourse with limited sound and a bit slower). " And let's face it, if it can run on a PET, it should be doable on the Electron.
I was so excited to see the Atari port of this game, and when he said "I'm reusing the boxes with a label" I was like "It's OK, Guy! I'll buy it!!!" and then "I'm using gray for the disk labels" I was like "Whooooooooa..." and then it sank on me. I don't have a disk drive for the Atari. :'( My dreams... my poor, broken dreams...
@@emmettturner9452 You'll need to find the URL yourself (RUclips comments don't seem to like external URLS atm?), but most editions of the game seem to include the digital edition disk images.
Zowies! I've been to college, university and a tech school, none have helped. BTW, our age group is called the "Baby Bust", directly following the Baby Boom "Boomers". A five year span from 1966 to 1971, which, overall, appears to have been a group of individuals which have had difficulty finding work.
After community college, everything hit a wall, basically. Never knew this issue had a name. I also thought it was mainly my low opinion of myself preventing me from going further. I know what I want to do with my life, but analysis paralysis and the aforementioned low opinion are preventing me from taking the first step.
That on-the-fly character reprogramming trick may (or may not) have been used by some Symantec Norton products to display a graphics mouse arrow in text mode programs,
And by PC BIOS screens to display the Energy Star logo. AMI's "WinBIOS" took it a step further and generated an entire GUI-like interface for the BIOS setup.
@@vwestlife I was suspecting they did something like that for boot logos. On my PC i noticed the the Gateway 2000 logo disappears shortly before the OS is loaded.
@@The8BitGuy ruclips.net/video/RcUa4OreiKo/видео.html David here is a video that just randomly popped up in my feed that has an excellent way to retrobrite I think you should take a look at.
An Atari 600 XL was my first computer, upgraded to a 130 XE with a trade in program offered by Atari. Initially I tried to get a tape drive for the 600 XL so I didn't have to type in my BASIC programs every time I turned the computer off, and my dad was kind enough to take me all over town on this wild goose chase. We never found a tape drive, which is probably fortunate, since floppy drives work much better. Thank you for continuing to champion and create content for classic computer technology! 😀
Pretty good stuff. I do some Atari programming and have experimented with the 5 color text mode. I worked up a Ultima-style RPG tileset using characters. You can greatly expand the available characters if you dynamically swap portions of the character set out, though this requires a significant amount of level design to work out what goes where. In my case, I was able to keep x-many character definitions at the "Top" of the 128 set that exist in all cases (so like, for the main world map, combat map, town map, dungeon maps, etc) and swap out the lower portions depending on where you go. This allowed me to have more unique environments where, say, the town pieces differ a good amount from dungeons. It also allows me to have up to 5 unique you/monsters using 4-character (1 "Tile") on screen at once. It wasn't easy, and it took a ton of time (and mapping out on a spreadsheet) to reconcile the ranges that needed to be swapped, but it works. For your Robots game, it could work, depending, but would need the level/maps designed in areas or blocks so when you cross into one area, characters are swapped. As a direct 1:1 port, probably not, but with new maps this technique could work out.
@@IcyTorment Yes and I do just that in mine. The ol' "Atari Horizontal Display Shuffle." Top line and bottom 6 lines are one character set, the "world" in the middle is another, switch char sets with a DLI.
Reminds me how VHS boxes were used on Betamax tapes towards end of their life span on the shelves, they also added little stickers over the VHS edition to indicate this one was Beta - a fraction of avaliable titles.
Your whole video series has gotten me onto half-baked plans to design an 8-bit computer system from the ground up, but with the added ambition that it is the first in a line of computers that leads to modern 64-bit systems, with full backwards compatibility of executables along the way. It starts with 40 x 25 monochrome character graphics, with a 6809 under the hood...
Thank you! I recognized it but just couldn't place it, it's been too long since I last watched the 5 Docs. 4 Docs + stock footage. 3 Docs and a necessary re-cast. Whatever, Sarah Jane was back so I was good.
My favorite thing about The 8-Bit Guy is how wholesome he is. There's something really enjoyable about watching someone who is so wholesome make youtube videos about something they love.
I remember watching his videos about 5 years ago when I was 13. I already was interested in computers then but he has taught me so much about retro systems and gives me an appreciation for technology.
It is crazy to think that back then they didn't have the luxury of write it on one system and it works on all. All these ports and differing version show that we take modern tech for granted, I could never be as smart.
@@MicahTheManiac It is pretty crazy how many different versions of one game there was back then. You'd have something like an Amiga version that looked and played great then a ZX Spectrum version of the same game that looked like garbage and was barely recognizable!
@@CyanneDTM Which didn't exist on most home computers of the '80s. It wasn't until the '90s that things started to work toward standardisation, and even then, it wasn't always certain which API was going to win. There were several contenders.
@@MicahTheManiac Perhaps that was also a blessing. Back then there was a huge choice of home computer, each unique in it's capabilities and the hardware/software available for it. Today, apart from Apple and it's new M1 ARM processors, everyone has a fairly limited choice of generic x64 PC, generally running Windows or Linux. Android and ChromeOS run on fairly generic hardware, and apart from a few tweaks and visual changes, the OS is the same on every device and they run the same software. 🙁
ah cool, Christian Krüger is a personal friend of mine here in germany. sadly we haven't met in a long while (we regularly did in Berlin every 8 weeks). He was the #1 I thought about who was able to do a port.
David, I personally think your passion for the Commodore 64 is so awesome! There are very few who can appreciate a machine that once could only use a television to put dots on a screen, and very few who have escaped from Basic, dabbed into assembly language to create interesting games that defined the Commodore 64 for its outstanding sprites, raster colors, parallax scrolling, and amazing SID chip speaking the strange language of only bits and bytes. Keep up the good work! You got this one in admiration for your cool game titles including Petscii robots. I started on an Atari computer by the way.
in my experience, port means direct copy, or at least as close as the hardware will let you get. The monochrome graphics of the Atari version make me nostalgic for a Sinclair version.
@@oldguy9051 Well, a ZX81 version would certainly look a lot more like the Petscii version, though good luck fitting it into an unexpanded ZX81. Actually, now I think about it, the Speccy had a game a bit like this: Vortex Software's Android 2. (Also, Android 1, though 2 is a little nearer the mark). and hey, it had a C64 version too! More of a straight shooter than Petscii's puzzley gameplay.
I am just starting out my new game on Python and feeling the equivalent of Writer's block of a programmer. Goes into youtube for refreshment, and here we are. My motivation is went back up again :) for writing a game
Yup… reverse engineering code is a pain. I’ve got a project in progress myself (not a game, a piece of equipment that uses a 6800-class processor), and it is definitely a task and three quarters to figure it all out.
I would love a MS-DOS version.. that being send I really appreciate all the time and effort put into all these games and ports.. keep up the great work. 👍
Wow, that's a lot of work! It's great to see these projects have a life after their initial development though, especially with people in the community taking it upon themselves to work on it. And I'm honestly surprised you didn't do the same thing with relabelling the box for the Apple version, although it's nice that it did get its own. Definitely can't blame you for doing it for the Atari though. Even offering boxed versions at all is going above and beyond what most small developers would do these days.
I grew up with all these computers as a kid. I haven’t thought about them in years except to travel down memory lane with your videos and others like you. But it is a different nostalgia entirely to revisit actual new programming for these rigs so many years later. I only poked around writing custom BBS software for the Amiga back in the day, never things as complex as you are doing. So fun to hear about. Thanks for this I loved it
@@xnonsuchx yeah but as David said in the video, the C64 can use custom characters for all of the 256 spots of PETSCII so it might not technically be "PETSCII" either. And it was a graphics mode on the Apple II version. So "ATASCII" would still be an appropriate name under those circumstances...It would be funny to simulate a spray paint graphic crossing out PETSCII and spraying "ATASCII" in its place..
PETSCII Robots, I finally finished the Amiga version. That is one awesome little game, that must have taken a fair old time to write! What a great achievement, possibly the cleanest most feature packed and nice looking indie game of the last 3 years. I must have played it a good 5-6 hours, and I take my hat off to you David. That was awesome!
First found your channel after watching LGR. I have a small channel unrelated to this sort of thing but have consistently enjoyed your vids as a geek and all around hobbyist when it comes to retro games and computers. Thanks for the consistently great content
Yeah, I think the way you're repackaging the Atari version in C64 boxes is completely kosher and in-line with they way we got them as kids. At least you included the extra slip sheet, sometimes we didn't even get that! I thought I remembered that the Apple version was only bitmapped by necessity; it seems like it would be kind of... out of character... for the "PETSCII" robots to not be in text mode on the X16 :)
I really enjoy what you do, more importantly, you are helping educate a younger audience that doesn't understand what low memory really means. (As opposed to lack of optimization.)
I think what you do is amazing, and that’s why I keep coming back to watch your channel. But don’t forget to be humble. You put down multiple people within the first two minutes of the video.
Im glad the Atari is getting some love finally. its still a shame that the port doesn't really use the hardware as well as it could.. but its better than nothing
@@IcyTorment It's possible on PAL, but AFAIK, you can't do this for NTSC systems, due to timings being too strigent on real hardware. There's lots of flickering on NTSC when tried back then. On emulators there's no problem tho. And yes, it would be memory costly. That's why most demos on the Atari requires PAL at at least a 256Kb upgrade. (then again, all atari 8-bits emulators out there support the extended ram, since it was sold back when the atari's were sold).
@Marek Borowski While the Atari 8-bit has a much larger color palette to select from (thanks to its GTIA chip, not the ANTIC chip), the C64 can actually do the same kinds of tricks that the ANTIC chip can do. This includes switching the character set on every line (in fact, the C64 can switch it on any/every scan line, not just every text line), and changing colors. Additionally, due to its color map, the C64 can display 16 colors across each scan line, so arguably the C64 can be more colorful (depending on the meaning of that word). In the Atari multicolor character mode (ANTIC 4/GRAPHICS 12), each character can have 4 colors at the most, not 5. What the 8th bit of the character codes, which is normally the inverse bit, does in this mode is choose between 2 of the color registers to represent one of the bit pairs (which can have only 1 of 4 possible values, after all). This gives you 5 color registers to choose from per character cell, which is good, but each *character* can still only have 4 colors (you can only choose 4 color registers out of 5 in a limited way). Now, each *line* can have 5 colors--that is true enough--but like I said, on the C64 it is 16 colors across each line, for comparison, and each character has 3 colors from 3 color registers, with the 4th color for each character coming from the color map. Once again, arguably the C64 is more colorful. The Atari is better at some types of graphics and games, but when it comes to tile-based games like this one or the _Ultima_ series, for example, the C64 is generally better ( _Ultima V_ on the C64 even beats the original Apple II version, for which the game was specifically designed). It can even display 16 colors on each line in high-res mode, which has 320x200 pixels. I'm actually surprised that so many--seemingly most--Atari users assume that the C64 can't mix graphics modes and dynamically change colors and characters sets and such like the Atari can. The C64 can do all of these things. The Atari is a great 8-bit computer, especially graphically, and has a really cool architecture with its display lists, but the C64 is really great, too, doing many of the same tricks, while sporting some of its own tricks, such as being better at high resolution, its color map, and having an overall superior sprite system. Not all of the potential of its hardware was used by this game, either.
As an aspiring game dev, I think it is safe to say that I could not do what you do, David. Working with retro systems and all their limitations is beyond my (limited) scope of knowledge. Sometimes I watch these videos and wish I grew up in the 70's or 80's and got to experience these systems 1-on-1. Great work, you're one of my favorite channels!
If you ever get someone to redo the Atari version in bitmap graphics mode, you could issue a revised disk with the text mode game on one side and the bitmap mode on the other, like how the Commodore disk is set up with the Vic-20 version. That way those with machines with sufficient ram could get all the super-duper color enhancements without dropping support for the 48k machines.
For a good Atari 8-bit computer music notation system, I recommend Raster Music Tracker. It'll make brand new POKEY-compatible music that'll work on real hardware and all variations of the 8-bit series! The big problem though is this: it has not been updated since 2002. Still works good on my Windows 10, though! Still easy to download too!
It's a lot of fun seeing all of these ports, not just for their own sake, but in the compare-and-contrast elements that make porting so fascinating (and frustrating). As many others have said (and you mentioned as well), I think the repackaging you've devised for the Atari version is a beautiful throwback to exactly how this was often done. I have more than a few boxes like that from my youth.
David your commitment to making retro style games inspires me. I mean you take huge risk even when you decide to distribute some of these. And it just shows me maybe I can jump into some things I'd always wanted to.
Also, the Oric also has a 6502....As well as the Apple IIgs, the NEC PC Engine and the Watara Supervision and Atari Lynx handhelds (Both at 4Mhz each!). :P
Funny timing. I watched all of the Petscii Robots videos this morning and then this appeared in my notifications. I thought RUclips was recommending one I missed, but nope!
Excited for the DOS version. I found a 386 on the side of the road last year and I've been enjoying getting it all working. PX3 is my most played game on it :)
It reminds me of the many homebrew Dreamcast games with 16-bit level graphics. It is cool homebrew is being made for the DC but so far none of them take advantage of the Dreamcast's 3D capabilities at all. When the homebrew for a 3D system looks like it good run on a SNES or maybe a Neo-Geo it makes it a lot less interesting imo.
Did you not pay attention to the video? All of the reasons were fully explained! Of course, if your expertise is as any near as high as your expectations, you could get the code and show everyone how it should be done!
Just so we're clear. It absolutely could. But it would require somebody to re-write the entire graphics subsystem of the game, and we'd need an artist to draw 256 bit-mapped tiles. Plus the Atari 800 would be on the chopping block because it only has 48K. So yes, it could be done. Maybe it even will be done some day.
Atari ports from other systems will sometimes fall short because they are not so well suited to the Atari graphics architecture. However it is equally true that when games are created to properly exploit the Atari system they would be equally difficult to port away from the Atari. It's unique and powerful design is it's strength, but does make for more difficult ports. Games developed specifically for the machine usually shine brightest, it's all part of the fun of programming the Atari machines. Pretty sure C= were taking notes and inspiration in the years after 1979! Better music is certainly possible and I wouldn't be surprised to see more unofficial ports with interesting tricks appear yet, such is the Atari community. I didn't see a need to fit in 48K though, would many really be concerned about a stock 800 memory size even years ago?!
I'm just glad to see the Atari 8-bit still alive and kicking... Seeing a 1979 machine go toe-to-toe with a C64 from 1984 is like seeing an NES game keep pace with its Genesis/MegaDrive superior, or a Wii game look just as good as its PS3 cousin.
The brilliance and investment for these archaic 8 bit machines is appreciated and praised. Much of my youth was spent enjoying these 6502 based machines. Gray-scale on the Atari version is fantastic being able to run on an Atari 800.
Turn on Artifacting in the Atari emulator. Like the Apple II, you should see green and purple and white pixels. These can be useful if the pixels are placed intentionally for extra color. Also, since the main character is stationary in the center of the screen, you could utilize sprite overlays to give it a unique color or 2 or 3.
That would maximize the Atari's resolution and add some color, but the problem is the amount of memory it takes, which threatens to exclude the 800 (which most commonly came with 48K of RAM, stock, of course). I suppose some Apple IIs are excluded as well, but not the most common ones, and apparently the Atari 800 is considered the baseline for this platform. As for sprites (or player-missiles), they are of lower resolution on the Atari. That might be a fair trade-off, but we should be aware of it, in any case. Another issue is that artifacting on the Atari only offers 4 colors (black, white, and 2 others) rather than the 6 colors on the Apple II, and the colors can vary greatly between different Atari models (while they are consistent on the Apple II).
Well I can very much appreciate the boxed copies from the business side of things, I think it would be much better to make your game available on a platform such as steam while still allowing the option for boxed copies
The fact you needed to cut the same production corners for the physical copies as real game publsihers of the day really is a chefs kiss to the legacy your games celebrate.
Could you imagine taking a game, dissemble it to source, then figure out the code to make a game for a different system just to find out you could have asked for the source in the first place. Oh and the port for that system was already being made officially.
Some people do that sort of thing purely for fun as they enjoy the challenge. I suspect he enjoyed himself immensely. He certainly deserves to be applauded for his efforts and the impressive results.
... much like the War Doctor, the 10th Doctor, and the 11th Doctor all trying to figure out how to get their Sonic Screwdriver(s) to run a background app to create a "wood" setting over hundreds of years in order to free them from their cell in the Tower only to have Clara pop up once it finished and open up the door which was unlocked the entire time...
All because the source wasn't just provided to begin with. I certainly wouldn't think to ask; if he was willing to share it I would assume he would have done so. Given his past position on this for other projects, it's not an unreasonable assumption.
@@JosephDavies The thing is, it's technically a commercial release. Though I'd like to think he could count on the goodwill of the community to stump up the spondies, especially with the goodies like the physical edition that you can't get without purchasing it, I have to admit if I had $10,000 or more tied up in it, It'd certainly give me pause for thought.
I don't comment very often but I think I watched almost all your videos and love them. I have to say I'm rather tempted to buy the x16 when it is available, not that I have any clue at when it comes to coding, but your projects have motivated me to give it try - And that includes restoration stuff - I have an electronic piano and all the A keys are playing up - and your videos have sent me on a mission to learn bits and bob to attempt fixing it myself...The problem being what it is, I've not got much to lose if it goes wrong.
Back in the day, there were not that many "wrong" platforms. Certainly, some died out quickly, others had more, or just different games, hardware add-ons etc, but they all had their own 'character' and a loyal group of followers. As much as I hate football (soccer), there are similarities with '80s computers... you choose a team and support them, even if they're never going to be top of the premiere league. And both groups have been known to get in to physical fights over whose is best. 😁
Usually, perhaps, although in this case it is C64 boxes being repurposed, when back in the day, it definitely was the right platform, as it turned out. In this case, it probably (but who knows?) wouldn't be worth ordering boxes specifically for the Atari port, so taking advantage of the economies of scale involved in the C64 port (with thousands of units sold and more boxes already purchased) makes the most sense. It's just too bad that the Atari's full capabilities couldn't be used, but I totally understand, as this was typical of ports from one of these platforms to the other. The original would make full(er) use of the hardware, while the port would try to do whatever it could while avoiding the extra work of rewriting the whole game to take full(er) advantage of the other rather different hardware. There are enough similarities that playable ports could fairly easily be made, but especially considering how similar these computers are in some ways, their differences are really pronounced overall.
@@another3997 Yeah, those were the days, weren't they? People *still* argue over which computer is supposedly superior, with many of their arguments based on ignorance of the other and, for that matter, their own sometimes, just like back then. :) None of these platforms could be wrong, though, as long as the individual derives enjoyment and learns at least a little something from using it. In business terms, however, fair or unfair, there were wrong choices to be made, and every business in that industry made some real "whoppers"--even the "winner" IBM was displaced from the market long ago. So why did their PC win? There were many reasons, some logical and some not so logical, but mainly it was because they had made a computer that was not only fairly capable back in the day (albeit hardly the best), but most importantly it was also easy to clone using off-the-shelf components and fully compatible alternatives to a very simple BIOS.
Who could've imagined that there would be a bazillion versions of this game, kinda like how lots of vintage game came in IBM PC, Apple II, Macintosh and Atari versions?
I really like the work that has been put into something like this. Being an owner of an Apple IIc, this'll make a nice addition to the system. This is really cool!
I wish I could help out getting an NES or SNES port, but sadly the limit of my programming knowledge for those systems is that they run on the 6502 chip 🤣
Same here. I have an idea for an operating system for the NES, might have to be DOS like to keep it simple. Any thing like keyboard, save (SD card, probably), WiFi, etc might have to go through the cart or a home brew add-on to the NES expansion port. I know that the top loader doesn’t have that, same for the clones.
@@Kara_Kay_Eschel I was just thinking about a basic NES cartridge. Without worrying about some of the fancier memory controllers you can have a 256 kb game. If you used an MMC3 type memory controller you could have 512 KB for the program and another 256 KB for sprites and the like.
@@LifeWithMatthew there is already an official NES BASIC cart, it was only released in Japan for the Famicom as "family basic" had a keyboard and cassette interface on the keyboard.
@@harrisontashjian752 lol, I think there may have been a misunderstanding. When I said a "basic" NES cartridge I didn't mean the programing language, but basic as in simple.
For all those wondering about where to find the background music: It’s the «alternate soundtrack» I made this year. Link here: ruclips.net/p/PLWtrQe3WXMYaSwrf2EOAFs0xMX7OXrQ9e :)
Plus much more. Thanks Anders.
Takker! :)
Thank you, you're awesome as always!!!
Thanks 👍
Time travel
I can't even imagine the commitment it takes to get this sort of thing done. I always loved hardware but could not handle sitting for long periods programming. Hats off on this one!
I love hardware stuff but i just despise working the software side of things. Makes me think i should have been a car guy or something
Love your videos TTT - I'm the opposite haha, suck at hardware but am good at programming
Software programing is a monster that is so hard to commit to. I commend all these folks willing to look deeper than hardware to get this beautiful project done. I sure couldn't have done something like this
I have just the opposite issue, having been a software engineer for close to 40 years, i have no desire for hardware. As a matter of fact the most hardware knowledge I have, i got right here. I started out on a commodore pet in 78.
Also the opposite here. I use to sit before the screen for hours to make a certain thing work in code. Hardware and electronics on the other hand are nothing for me. I just don't get this stuff. I like to code in assembly though because it's almost as close to the hardware as you can get.
Yes! Atari 800 FTW! Hardware keyboard scanner with debounce! Actual working serial shift registers!
Go feed your cat Ben!
Atari computers are lovely. I miss mine so much. I swear I'm going to get another one. Can't afford a new old stock Falcon, BUT I want an ST or even anything else on the 8 bit spectrum would do. I got my first one for free back in the late 90's and with a ton of software AND a 5.25 inch disk drive. I played Forbidden Forrest for hours on end.... Why did I not hang onto it... I miss it so much.
I swear, somehow, I will have either an ST with TOS running on it OR another 8 bit computer to play Forbidden Forrest again.
Not too sure which to aim for first. The 16 bit machines with the midi interfaces are so tempting, BUT the 8 bit systems are so fun and too much nostalgia leans me in that direction. PLUS Petscii Robots running on an 8 bit Atari is tempting as well.
Sorry to keep rambling and take up so much time, but I can't suppress my inner geek watching this stuff and go much longer without an 8 bit computer. I still have some of the carts and a few other things, so I'm going to make the plunge soon and I can't wait to play me some Petscii Robots among a few other old favorites.
I'm a big fan of 8-Bit Guy, Ben Heck Hacks and many other on RUclips. Thank you all for making us all so much more passionate about our hobbies in technology.
The Atari 8 bits were very advanced systems considering they came out in 1979. The C64 came out two years later, yet in many ways it was no more capable than the Atari machines. Of course, a number of those Atari engineers went on to design the Amiga... which CBM snatched from Atari in a cruel twist of fate. 😁
@@another3997 Yes the Amiga was the natural upgrade path for Atari 8 bit enthusiasts
Petscii robots is challenging Skyrim with the amount of versions
and GTA V
this
But no one can outport the *T E T R I S*
@@archivushka or *PAC* *MAN*
This is skyrim. Next episode: David travels back in time and give Petscii robots to “creator” of skyrim.
When you were talking about reusing the box my immediate thought was "and?" AS a Mac guy Im guessing half the games i bought in the 90s were in MSDOS/Windows boxes with a Mac sticker on them. Too me it just means you are a big time software developer!
lol not only that, but so many Mac games were simply source ports of the MS-DOS version. Like, the game entered into some kind of MS-DOS pseudo-emulation mode and the game played within that. Not very often was there a game for the Mac which was NATIVELY written for it, or at least the port was a natively rewritten version. So as a fellow old skool Mac guy, I too am all too used to buying the "hand me down" versions. :P
@@nickfifteen You always hoped for Aspyr to get the license because then you knew it was going to be a true Mac version and not a buggy port.
"Attack of the ATASCII Robots" sounds more menacing.
Personally I would've gone with "ATASCII of the Pesky Robots", lol
Certainly better than "Attack of the Code Page 437 Robots" for an MS-DOS port.
For some reason I didn't expect to see you here.
But it doesn't use the ATASCII character set.
ANTICs of the Pesky Robots?
*1980's:* _"After two long years in development..."_
*David:* _"Yeah, no, here's 7 ports."_
Mighty Number 9 and Cyberpunk: "AAAAAAH WHY DID WE COMMIT TO SO MANY PORTS!?"
Dave: [smiles happily]
SIX ports (if you count both Atari versions: one official, one not). FIVE for now, otherwise.
I was more amused when he first revealed the game.
"Oh hey guys I have this idea for a game....and here's a working prototype for 3 different computers"
@@HelloKittyFanMan. _You obviously are not counting the cartridge port for the NES._ ☝🤓
@@richardhead8264: Um... hello... as of this video he had announced a possible NES version as one that was _not_ made or even planned yet. So DUHH.
(Also, the one of the 6 ports is really just the unofficial one of the 2 Atari versions, so I've edited my comment to reflect that now. But if you're counting only official ones, the number -- which includes only one of the Ataris -- is FIVE, and that's what you should edit your OP to say.)
I'm blown away precisely because of how much you have achieved with the limitations you were working against. From the very beginning, this project has, frankly, impressed the hell out of me.
I liked that "unofficial" port lol. I imagine whoever did it, did it mostly for the challenge. The spirit of the hacker! Lol
it would be really interesting for David to take apart the DOOM engine and make a "Petscii 3D" hahaha
Isn't Doom's source code public domain? Hence why you see videos of Doom running on almost anything.
Come to think about it, Doom is a false 3D engine in that there is only one layer of level geometry. You can't have a floor on top of another. And Petscii has multiple levels accessed using elevators, so it completely voids the premise. Unless each level is its own level.
@@mfaizsyahmi Hexen would probably be better suited for it. That game added a hub system to the Doom engine which, if the map design of Petscii Robots allows it, could enable a 3D interpretation of the game in that engine, using elevators instead of warp portals to move between the "levels" of the lab.
@@mfaizsyahmi The ZDoom branch of source ports has supported multiple floors above each other for several years now. There are some invasion maps that take advantage of this for some added verticality.
Petscii Robots has logical floors like Paradroid, but you never see more than one floor displayed at a time. That kind of arrangement can be reproduced in vanilla Doom, simply have multiple floors implemented as different areas on the same map, connected by teleporters.
But I agree with @Michel van Briemen, Hexen hub structure with the player warping between persistent levels would work too.
Anyway, very impressed by 8-bit guy porting his games to multiple platforms like in the old days!
Atari 8-bit version could have a rainbow color effect by using display lists, but that would probably look rather tacky in this case. Maybe for the EMP bomb, to represent many different EM frequencies disrupting the robots.
OneLoneCoder (javidx9) has a pretty good video series on raycasting 3D over ASCII it's in C++ but could be ported to ASM: ruclips.net/video/xW8skO7MFYw/видео.html
ZDoom/others aren't running on a 6502 though. The latest versions barely even run on a Raspberry Pi since they do so much crazy stuff.
Also I've heard that ZDoom in particular isn't even a 100% faithful Doom engine port.
Apparently all the fixed point math that the Doom engine uses was stripped out, and replaced with floating point, which makes you wonder if its even the same engine anymore.
Hoo boy. Be prepared to be flooded with emails asking for the source code for porting it to the NES. Also, TIL that the SNES' CPU is a direct cousin of the Apple IIGS CPU.
Omg
Would be cool to see a superfx version.
I want a TempleOS version!
Yep, you're correct. NES homebrew scene is big, there are lots of people good programmers there.
SNES CPU basically *is* the IIgs CPU, about to the extent that the C64's 6510 is a 6502.
I think "Unified box design with different stickers applied" is probably the best plan for any releases you do in the future to cut down on costs. Sure, it'll make things a little less special, buuuuuuuuuut it encourages you to do more stuff in the future I guess?
The only problem is the effort of sticking all the stickers on the boxes 😔
He should do a standard run, as he does it now, and then six months in, switch to the "budget" version. Otherwise I suspect a lot of retro enthusiasts would give it a miss in favour of just getting hold of the rom. The physical package is a big draw for a lot of people.
Nice to see the Atari getting some love. Seeing a demo machine playing star raiders in the local department store was when I decided I wanted a computer back in 1980. Well, that and Cloudy Mountain on the Intellivision.
I'm very tempted to offer the BBC Micro. I'm in the process of restoring one, and have been spending a lot of time learning about its capabilities. I've been looking for a project to learn 6502 assembly.
I guess the biggest challenge would be RAM -- assuming we're targetting a stock BBC B, which ships with 32kb RAM… if we use Mode 1 (40 column text; 4 colours) we lose 20k of that to screen memory, plus a bit extra for the disk filing system, operating system, etc. Mode 4 would only use 10k but give us monochrome graphics.
If we used mode 7, that only uses 1k, but has no graphics commands and the character set is not re-assignable. (Also, although colour is supported, you have to use invisible 'control characters' to change colour, and these take up space.) It has some very blocky graphics characters available which we could use. I guess one advantage is that mode 7 graphics are as iconic to the Beeb as PETSCII is to the Commodore platforms!
Of course, targetting something higher spec than the BBC B would be easier, but where's the fun in that?
Anyhow, I probably can't commit to how much time I could spend on this at the moment -- work is very busy, etc etc, you know the story. But if there was no commitment necessary, it'd be fun to play around with :)
Richard broadhurst has gotten much more impressive stuff into a 32k British Broadcasting Micro. A bunch of outstanding arcade ports and "emulators"
Mode 7 graphics before Nintendo! ;)
On the other hand, if it was written for mode 4 it should be usable for the Acorn Electron too (ofcourse with limited sound and a bit slower).
Mode 7 graphics is Teletext which is only available on the BBC, not on the Electron, though you'll have a real time trying to get it on the Electron.
There is a part of me that would like to0 see this on the ZX Spectrum, though you'd need some real porting. I think all of the computers it's been ported to (apart from the IBM PC) have been 6502 based and the Speccy is Z80 based.
@@xXTheoLinuxXx " On the other hand, if it was written for mode 4 it should be usable for the Acorn Electron too (ofcourse with limited sound and a bit slower). "
And let's face it, if it can run on a PET, it should be doable on the Electron.
Every time I try to make a game (using current techniques, I'm not as cool as you), I only get as far as analysis paralysis, so I feel this strongly.
gamejams are amazing for breakinmg this habit, if you're interested
I was so excited to see the Atari port of this game, and when he said "I'm reusing the boxes with a label" I was like "It's OK, Guy! I'll buy it!!!" and then "I'm using gray for the disk labels" I was like "Whooooooooa..." and then it sank on me. I don't have a disk drive for the Atari. :'( My dreams... my poor, broken dreams...
Same, but I have an Atari Ultimate Cart which can run disk images. I’ll just buy it and hope someone can image it for me. :)
@@emmettturner9452 You'll need to find the URL yourself (RUclips comments don't seem to like external URLS atm?), but most editions of the game seem to include the digital edition disk images.
Your game development videos and the insights you're giving are always super interesting!
My whole life is analysis paralysis. I'm still trying to decide whether to go to University and if so what to study. I'm 55.
Zowies! I've been to college, university and a tech school, none have helped.
BTW, our age group is called the "Baby Bust", directly following the Baby Boom "Boomers". A five year span from 1966 to 1971, which, overall, appears to have been a group of individuals which have had difficulty finding work.
@@MattKasdorf difficulties finding a job? Isn't that every single generation past baby boomer?
“I seem to be having this tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle.” Good luck Arthur Dent
After community college, everything hit a wall, basically. Never knew this issue had a name. I also thought it was mainly my low opinion of myself preventing me from going further. I know what I want to do with my life, but analysis paralysis and the aforementioned low opinion are preventing me from taking the first step.
I know how you feel. I only finished my university undergrad last Christmas. I was 53. I started in 1986. :)
I would absolutely LOVE a SNES version of the game. It's the console I grew up on, and seeing this game on it would make me so happy!
Well, the controller issue is nipped in the bud already.
A SNES version would be hard to make
But a NES version could be made easily.
@@Loksiopl it took the game company's 20 employees to make a SNES game it only takes 1-6 people to make a NES game
That on-the-fly character reprogramming trick may (or may not) have been used by some Symantec Norton products to display a graphics mouse arrow in text mode programs,
Yep.. that's exactly what they did. Of course this kind of thing was common on the VIC-20, Plus-4, and other machines that didn't have sprites.
@@The8BitGuy I think I remember you explaining how that work on machine that doesn't have sprites
In an older video
And by PC BIOS screens to display the Energy Star logo. AMI's "WinBIOS" took it a step further and generated an entire GUI-like interface for the BIOS setup.
@@vwestlife I was suspecting they did something like that for boot logos. On my PC i noticed the the Gateway 2000 logo disappears shortly before the OS is loaded.
@@The8BitGuy ruclips.net/video/RcUa4OreiKo/видео.html
David here is a video that just randomly popped up in my feed that has an excellent way to retrobrite I think you should take a look at.
An Atari 600 XL was my first computer, upgraded to a 130 XE with a trade in program offered by Atari. Initially I tried to get a tape drive for the 600 XL so I didn't have to type in my BASIC programs every time I turned the computer off, and my dad was kind enough to take me all over town on this wild goose chase. We never found a tape drive, which is probably fortunate, since floppy drives work much better. Thank you for continuing to champion and create content for classic computer technology! 😀
Pretty good stuff. I do some Atari programming and have experimented with the 5 color text mode. I worked up a Ultima-style RPG tileset using characters. You can greatly expand the available characters if you dynamically swap portions of the character set out, though this requires a significant amount of level design to work out what goes where. In my case, I was able to keep x-many character definitions at the "Top" of the 128 set that exist in all cases (so like, for the main world map, combat map, town map, dungeon maps, etc) and swap out the lower portions depending on where you go. This allowed me to have more unique environments where, say, the town pieces differ a good amount from dungeons. It also allows me to have up to 5 unique you/monsters using 4-character (1 "Tile") on screen at once. It wasn't easy, and it took a ton of time (and mapping out on a spreadsheet) to reconcile the ranges that needed to be swapped, but it works. For your Robots game, it could work, depending, but would need the level/maps designed in areas or blocks so when you cross into one area, characters are swapped. As a direct 1:1 port, probably not, but with new maps this technique could work out.
@@IcyTorment Yes and I do just that in mine. The ol' "Atari Horizontal Display Shuffle." Top line and bottom 6 lines are one character set, the "world" in the middle is another, switch char sets with a DLI.
Reminds me how VHS boxes were used on Betamax tapes towards end of their life span on the shelves, they also added little stickers over the VHS edition to indicate this one was Beta - a fraction of avaliable titles.
Your whole video series has gotten me onto half-baked plans to design an 8-bit computer system from the ground up, but with the added ambition that it is the first in a line of computers that leads to modern 64-bit systems, with full backwards compatibility of executables along the way. It starts with 40 x 25 monochrome character graphics, with a 6809 under the hood...
Started singing this to myself when I saw the shirt
“🎵To Rassilon’s tower we will go.
Must choose above, between, below.🎵”
Thank you! I recognized it but just couldn't place it, it's been too long since I last watched the 5 Docs. 4 Docs + stock footage. 3 Docs and a necessary re-cast. Whatever, Sarah Jane was back so I was good.
My favorite thing about The 8-Bit Guy is how wholesome he is. There's something really enjoyable about watching someone who is so wholesome make youtube videos about something they love.
Indeed! I love the G and PG rated nature this show presents! I trust him when it comes to content on RUclips!
I remember watching his videos about 5 years ago when I was 13. I already was interested in computers then but he has taught me so much about retro systems and gives me an appreciation for technology.
Agreed! Watching his shows has helped me re-learn a lot of what I had forgotten years and years ago. :)
I wish he was my dad
There’s no pretense, no phony ANYTHING with him. It’s refreshing. Even when things go wrong, his “awww shucks” attitude Seems so authentic.
Very cool stuff. Considering how homogenous architectures are today, it's fascinating how diverse everything was years ago.
That's why there were so many market crashes, it was very unstable.
It is crazy to think that back then they didn't have the luxury of write it on one system and it works on all. All these ports and differing version show that we take modern tech for granted, I could never be as smart.
@@MicahTheManiac It is pretty crazy how many different versions of one game there was back then. You'd have something like an Amiga version that looked and played great then a ZX Spectrum version of the same game that looked like garbage and was barely recognizable!
@@CyanneDTM Which didn't exist on most home computers of the '80s. It wasn't until the '90s that things started to work toward standardisation, and even then, it wasn't always certain which API was going to win. There were several contenders.
@@MicahTheManiac Perhaps that was also a blessing. Back then there was a huge choice of home computer, each unique in it's capabilities and the hardware/software available for it. Today, apart from Apple and it's new M1 ARM processors, everyone has a fairly limited choice of generic x64 PC, generally running Windows or Linux. Android and ChromeOS run on fairly generic hardware, and apart from a few tweaks and visual changes, the OS is the same on every device and they run the same software. 🙁
This guy’s ported this game to about every retro platform I know of, and is even gonna do a DOS port. The absolute commitment.
I love how this man is doing what he most love in life...
And being succesfull on It.
That's dedication, even your voice is in 8bit
I’m still as in awe of people who are able to make games like this as I was when I was 10!
1,000%
1st and 2nd generation 3d graphics are soooo bad, those consumers deserve a refund 😄
Godspeed dude! I've been so excited about this project since it's announcement, I think it will reinvigorate interest in American computing once more.
ah cool, Christian Krüger is a personal friend of mine here in germany. sadly we haven't met in a long while (we regularly did in Berlin every 8 weeks). He was the #1 I thought about who was able to do a port.
David, I personally think your passion for the Commodore 64 is so awesome! There are very few who can appreciate a machine that once could only use a television to put dots on a screen, and very few who have escaped from Basic, dabbed into assembly language to create interesting games that defined the Commodore 64 for its outstanding sprites, raster colors, parallax scrolling, and amazing SID chip speaking the strange language of only bits and bytes. Keep up the good work! You got this one in admiration for your cool game titles including Petscii robots. I started on an Atari computer by the way.
I’d love to see an SNES version of this!
Even after 4 years this music makes me extremely happy, everytime... 😁
in my experience, port means direct copy, or at least as close as the hardware will let you get.
The monochrome graphics of the Atari version make me nostalgic for a Sinclair version.
Yes, the ZX81 version!
@@oldguy9051 Well, a ZX81 version would certainly look a lot more like the Petscii version, though good luck fitting it into an unexpanded ZX81.
Actually, now I think about it, the Speccy had a game a bit like this: Vortex Software's Android 2. (Also, Android 1, though 2 is a little nearer the mark).
and hey, it had a C64 version too! More of a straight shooter than Petscii's puzzley gameplay.
@@TheTurnipKing You have a point there!
I miss my PET 4032. Rescued it from my old elementary school, that tried to thrown it out. A machine I actually USED at age 10, in fifth grade.
I am just starting out my new game on Python and feeling the equivalent of Writer's block of a programmer. Goes into youtube for refreshment, and here we are. My motivation is went back up again :) for writing a game
Hooray! Good luck with your game!
Yup… reverse engineering code is a pain. I’ve got a project in progress myself (not a game, a piece of equipment that uses a 6800-class processor), and it is definitely a task and three quarters to figure it all out.
I would love a MS-DOS version.. that being send I really appreciate all the time and effort put into all these games and ports.. keep up the great work. 👍
Wow, that's a lot of work! It's great to see these projects have a life after their initial development though, especially with people in the community taking it upon themselves to work on it. And I'm honestly surprised you didn't do the same thing with relabelling the box for the Apple version, although it's nice that it did get its own. Definitely can't blame you for doing it for the Atari though. Even offering boxed versions at all is going above and beyond what most small developers would do these days.
Viewers: "Is Petscii Robots available on the..."
David: "Yes!"
Amiga? :)
Sega Mega Drive?
@@TonHet1 I am a joke to you - the Sega Masters System
Do those run off a 6502-based chipset? I thought the Master System used a Z80?
@@Chaos89P yeah the SMS use a Zilog for the cpu and the genesis use it as secondary cpu
I grew up with all these computers as a kid. I haven’t thought about them in years except to travel down memory lane with your videos and others like you. But it is a different nostalgia entirely to revisit actual new programming for these rigs so many years later. I only poked around writing custom BBS software for the Amiga back in the day, never things as complex as you are doing. So fun to hear about. Thanks for this I loved it
11:45 - I honestly love this a bit because it reminds me of some real world nostalga of actual cost savings.
Me too. I miss the old PC games with a sticker with system requirements!
The fact you can keep your passion to produce the same game on so many systems is truly impressive. Respect.
For Atari, the title should be: "Attack of the ATASCII Robots"...
Except the character set is changed, so no longer ATASCII
Oh, boy :(
@@xnonsuchx yeah but as David said in the video, the C64 can use custom characters for all of the 256 spots of PETSCII so it might not technically be "PETSCII" either. And it was a graphics mode on the Apple II version. So "ATASCII" would still be an appropriate name under those circumstances...It would be funny to simulate a spray paint graphic crossing out PETSCII and spraying "ATASCII" in its place..
@@TheJeremyHolloway So all versions besides the original PET should have a unique name???
PETSCII Robots, I finally finished the Amiga version. That is one awesome little game, that must have taken a fair old time to write! What a great achievement, possibly the cleanest most feature packed and nice looking indie game of the last 3 years.
I must have played it a good 5-6 hours, and I take my hat off to you David. That was awesome!
When is the final episode of the commodore history coming out?
I've been wondering the same thing.
I'm still waiting on his episode about Commodore printers!
@@nickfifteen Commodore Amiga
Sadly its probably never gonna happen... But the nostalgia nerd's amiga story is a good substitute!
I love these PETSCII Robots videos. They're absolutely my jam.
Petscii Robots slowly becomes David's own Skyrim
First found your channel after watching LGR. I have a small channel unrelated to this sort of thing but have consistently enjoyed your vids as a geek and all around hobbyist when it comes to retro games and computers. Thanks for the consistently great content
Yeah, I think the way you're repackaging the Atari version in C64 boxes is completely kosher and in-line with they way we got them as kids. At least you included the extra slip sheet, sometimes we didn't even get that! I thought I remembered that the Apple version was only bitmapped by necessity; it seems like it would be kind of... out of character... for the "PETSCII" robots to not be in text mode on the X16 :)
I'd probably bundle the Petscii port WITH the X16, and offer the eventual enhanced version for sale.
I really enjoy what you do, more importantly, you are helping educate a younger audience that doesn't understand what low memory really means.
(As opposed to lack of optimization.)
You had me at "DOS system". Take my money!
I think what you do is amazing, and that’s why I keep coming back to watch your channel.
But don’t forget to be humble. You put down multiple people within the first two minutes of the video.
I noticed that, too.
Im glad the Atari is getting some love finally. its still a shame that the port doesn't really use the hardware as well as it could.. but its better than nothing
@@IcyTorment It's possible on PAL, but AFAIK, you can't do this for NTSC systems, due to timings being too strigent on real hardware. There's lots of flickering on NTSC when tried back then. On emulators there's no problem tho. And yes, it would be memory costly. That's why most demos on the Atari requires PAL at at least a 256Kb upgrade. (then again, all atari 8-bits emulators out there support the extended ram, since it was sold back when the atari's were sold).
@Marek Borowski While the Atari 8-bit has a much larger color palette to select from (thanks to its GTIA chip, not the ANTIC chip), the C64 can actually do the same kinds of tricks that the ANTIC chip can do. This includes switching the character set on every line (in fact, the C64 can switch it on any/every scan line, not just every text line), and changing colors. Additionally, due to its color map, the C64 can display 16 colors across each scan line, so arguably the C64 can be more colorful (depending on the meaning of that word).
In the Atari multicolor character mode (ANTIC 4/GRAPHICS 12), each character can have 4 colors at the most, not 5. What the 8th bit of the character codes, which is normally the inverse bit, does in this mode is choose between 2 of the color registers to represent one of the bit pairs (which can have only 1 of 4 possible values, after all). This gives you 5 color registers to choose from per character cell, which is good, but each *character* can still only have 4 colors (you can only choose 4 color registers out of 5 in a limited way). Now, each *line* can have 5 colors--that is true enough--but like I said, on the C64 it is 16 colors across each line, for comparison, and each character has 3 colors from 3 color registers, with the 4th color for each character coming from the color map. Once again, arguably the C64 is more colorful. The Atari is better at some types of graphics and games, but when it comes to tile-based games like this one or the _Ultima_ series, for example, the C64 is generally better ( _Ultima V_ on the C64 even beats the original Apple II version, for which the game was specifically designed). It can even display 16 colors on each line in high-res mode, which has 320x200 pixels.
I'm actually surprised that so many--seemingly most--Atari users assume that the C64 can't mix graphics modes and dynamically change colors and characters sets and such like the Atari can. The C64 can do all of these things. The Atari is a great 8-bit computer, especially graphically, and has a really cool architecture with its display lists, but the C64 is really great, too, doing many of the same tricks, while sporting some of its own tricks, such as being better at high resolution, its color map, and having an overall superior sprite system. Not all of the potential of its hardware was used by this game, either.
As an aspiring game dev, I think it is safe to say that I could not do what you do, David. Working with retro systems and all their limitations is beyond my (limited) scope of knowledge. Sometimes I watch these videos and wish I grew up in the 70's or 80's and got to experience these systems 1-on-1. Great work, you're one of my favorite channels!
If you ever get someone to redo the Atari version in bitmap graphics mode, you could issue a revised disk with the text mode game on one side and the bitmap mode on the other, like how the Commodore disk is set up with the Vic-20 version. That way those with machines with sufficient ram could get all the super-duper color enhancements without dropping support for the 48k machines.
Yep. I've considered that. If it ever happens, that's probably what we'll do.
with the stickers and inlays it gets even more fitting to the time period you try to emulate - Great Job!
For a good Atari 8-bit computer music notation system, I recommend Raster Music Tracker. It'll make brand new POKEY-compatible music that'll work on real hardware and all variations of the 8-bit series! The big problem though is this: it has not been updated since 2002. Still works good on my Windows 10, though! Still easy to download too!
I mean... It's not like POKEY is exactly a moving target.
SUNVOX!
Doesn't Defliemask (sic) also do POKEY? Of course, now with Atari 8-bit homebrews, the trick is to support Dual and Quad POKEYs...
It's a lot of fun seeing all of these ports, not just for their own sake, but in the compare-and-contrast elements that make porting so fascinating (and frustrating).
As many others have said (and you mentioned as well), I think the repackaging you've devised for the Atari version is a beautiful throwback to exactly how this was often done. I have more than a few boxes like that from my youth.
2015: DOES IT RUN DOOM
2021: does it run Petscii robots?
crysis cries in the corner
David your commitment to making retro style games inspires me. I mean you take huge risk even when you decide to distribute some of these. And it just shows me maybe I can jump into some things I'd always wanted to.
Also, the Oric also has a 6502....As well as the Apple IIgs, the NEC PC Engine and the Watara Supervision and Atari Lynx handhelds (Both at 4Mhz each!). :P
Funny timing. I watched all of the Petscii Robots videos this morning and then this appeared in my notifications. I thought RUclips was recommending one I missed, but nope!
We got from running Doom on everything to running PETSCII Robots on everything.
Excited for the DOS version. I found a 386 on the side of the road last year and I've been enjoying getting it all working. PX3 is my most played game on it :)
Great to see an Atari 8-bit version, but surprised that it doesn't come close to taking full advantage of the Atari's graphics capabilities.
It reminds me of the many homebrew Dreamcast games with 16-bit level graphics. It is cool homebrew is being made for the DC but so far none of them take advantage of the Dreamcast's 3D capabilities at all. When the homebrew for a 3D system looks like it good run on a SNES or maybe a Neo-Geo it makes it a lot less interesting imo.
Did you not pay attention to the video? All of the reasons were fully explained! Of course, if your expertise is as any near as high as your expectations, you could get the code and show everyone how it should be done!
Just so we're clear. It absolutely could. But it would require somebody to re-write the entire graphics subsystem of the game, and we'd need an artist to draw 256 bit-mapped tiles. Plus the Atari 800 would be on the chopping block because it only has 48K. So yes, it could be done. Maybe it even will be done some day.
Atari ports from other systems will sometimes fall short because they are not so well suited to the Atari graphics architecture. However it is equally true that when games are created to properly exploit the Atari system they would be equally difficult to port away from the Atari. It's unique and powerful design is it's strength, but does make for more difficult ports. Games developed specifically for the machine usually shine brightest, it's all part of the fun of programming the Atari machines. Pretty sure C= were taking notes and inspiration in the years after 1979! Better music is certainly possible and I wouldn't be surprised to see more unofficial ports with interesting tricks appear yet, such is the Atari community. I didn't see a need to fit in 48K though, would many really be concerned about a stock 800 memory size even years ago?!
I'm just glad to see the Atari 8-bit still alive and kicking... Seeing a 1979 machine go toe-to-toe with a C64 from 1984 is like seeing an NES game keep pace with its Genesis/MegaDrive superior, or a Wii game look just as good as its PS3 cousin.
The return of the Tomb Of Rassilon t-shirt! Excellent!
I was wondering if that was from The Five Doctors. It's been ages since I last watched it, so my memory is a bit fuzzy on what it looked like.
The player character in Atari looks like a star trek crewmember.
Yes, a "red shirt" character.
But wait - the Atari version has no color! -> He'll live!
I think when I was testing RC release if it was Spock on the screen :)
You have an Atari 1200XL abd never done a video about it??? Outrageous!! That was my first computer as a child and i loved every momment with it.
He's too busy playing with his 1450XLD. ;)
I hope somebody is able to make an SNES port possible given the heavy influence the controller has had on development on the game.
A lot of really good work being done there including the port to the Atari without any of the source code great stuff
I assume porting the Atari 800 version to the 5200 would be quite simple. They have such similar hardware.
The brilliance and investment for these archaic 8 bit machines is appreciated and praised. Much of my youth was spent enjoying these 6502 based machines. Gray-scale on the Atari version is fantastic being able to run on an Atari 800.
Turn on Artifacting in the Atari emulator. Like the Apple II, you should see green and purple and white pixels. These can be useful if the pixels are placed intentionally for extra color. Also, since the main character is stationary in the center of the screen, you could utilize sprite overlays to give it a unique color or 2 or 3.
won't artifacting end up with black and white images with an RGB mod?
@@TheJeremyHolloway Yes. But, not on an NTSC CRT using the original monitor and tv out ports.
That would maximize the Atari's resolution and add some color, but the problem is the amount of memory it takes, which threatens to exclude the 800 (which most commonly came with 48K of RAM, stock, of course). I suppose some Apple IIs are excluded as well, but not the most common ones, and apparently the Atari 800 is considered the baseline for this platform. As for sprites (or player-missiles), they are of lower resolution on the Atari. That might be a fair trade-off, but we should be aware of it, in any case. Another issue is that artifacting on the Atari only offers 4 colors (black, white, and 2 others) rather than the 6 colors on the Apple II, and the colors can vary greatly between different Atari models (while they are consistent on the Apple II).
This is going to be the most vast project of yours so far. Spanning across the most retro devices.
Well I can very much appreciate the boxed copies from the business side of things, I think it would be much better to make your game available on a platform such as steam while still allowing the option for boxed copies
You can buy a digital version for 10 dollars, at least for Planet x3
It's just amazing what you and your friends created. You deserve my highest respect.
Almost there... Petscii Robots almost has more versions than GTA V...
The fact you needed to cut the same production corners for the physical copies as real game publsihers of the day really is a chefs kiss to the legacy your games celebrate.
My man David is actually running a game company from the 80's, and it's working.
I love the new background. Great work on your petscii game. Looks like a lot of fun
So he’s experiencing the same issues devs back in the 80s had! When it comes to sales and profits for a given platform. Lol!
I love how chill you are with sharing this knowledge and data.
i hope you are good there is a big storm again...
Thank you. It brings back a lot of my childhood memories!
Could you imagine taking a game, dissemble it to source, then figure out the code to make a game for a different system just to find out you could have asked for the source in the first place. Oh and the port for that system was already being made officially.
Some people do that sort of thing purely for fun as they enjoy the challenge. I suspect he enjoyed himself immensely. He certainly deserves to be applauded for his efforts and the impressive results.
@@another3997 absolutely. Maybe he can do the snes or nes port!!!
... much like the War Doctor, the 10th Doctor, and the 11th Doctor all trying to figure out how to get their Sonic Screwdriver(s) to run a background app to create a "wood" setting over hundreds of years in order to free them from their cell in the Tower only to have Clara pop up once it finished and open up the door which was unlocked the entire time...
All because the source wasn't just provided to begin with.
I certainly wouldn't think to ask; if he was willing to share it I would assume he would have done so. Given his past position on this for other projects, it's not an unreasonable assumption.
@@JosephDavies The thing is, it's technically a commercial release. Though I'd like to think he could count on the goodwill of the community to stump up the spondies, especially with the goodies like the physical edition that you can't get without purchasing it, I have to admit if I had $10,000 or more tied up in it, It'd certainly give me pause for thought.
Using a sticker to cover a C64 box with a DOS sticker or Amiga sticker is a time honored way of dealing with this problem.
Like I told you before, I'd love to take up the challenge of porting this game to the SNES. UwU
Would it be easy to do a game boy port as well? Not an expert in programming and game porting but just thought ID bring up the question
I don't comment very often but I think I watched almost all your videos and love them. I have to say I'm rather tempted to buy the x16 when it is available, not that I have any clue at when it comes to coding, but your projects have motivated me to give it try - And that includes restoration stuff - I have an electronic piano and all the A keys are playing up - and your videos have sent me on a mission to learn bits and bob to attempt fixing it myself...The problem being what it is, I've not got much to lose if it goes wrong.
Loving the new background! A big improvement over the old studio, great look.
'This kind of thing was common back in the day'
Yes, usually a good indicator you bought the wrong platform.
Back in the day, there were not that many "wrong" platforms. Certainly, some died out quickly, others had more, or just different games, hardware add-ons etc, but they all had their own 'character' and a loyal group of followers. As much as I hate football (soccer), there are similarities with '80s computers... you choose a team and support them, even if they're never going to be top of the premiere league. And both groups have been known to get in to physical fights over whose is best. 😁
Usually, perhaps, although in this case it is C64 boxes being repurposed, when back in the day, it definitely was the right platform, as it turned out. In this case, it probably (but who knows?) wouldn't be worth ordering boxes specifically for the Atari port, so taking advantage of the economies of scale involved in the C64 port (with thousands of units sold and more boxes already purchased) makes the most sense.
It's just too bad that the Atari's full capabilities couldn't be used, but I totally understand, as this was typical of ports from one of these platforms to the other. The original would make full(er) use of the hardware, while the port would try to do whatever it could while avoiding the extra work of rewriting the whole game to take full(er) advantage of the other rather different hardware. There are enough similarities that playable ports could fairly easily be made, but especially considering how similar these computers are in some ways, their differences are really pronounced overall.
@@another3997 Yeah, those were the days, weren't they? People *still* argue over which computer is supposedly superior, with many of their arguments based on ignorance of the other and, for that matter, their own sometimes, just like back then. :)
None of these platforms could be wrong, though, as long as the individual derives enjoyment and learns at least a little something from using it. In business terms, however, fair or unfair, there were wrong choices to be made, and every business in that industry made some real "whoppers"--even the "winner" IBM was displaced from the market long ago. So why did their PC win? There were many reasons, some logical and some not so logical, but mainly it was because they had made a computer that was not only fairly capable back in the day (albeit hardly the best), but most importantly it was also easy to clone using off-the-shelf components and fully compatible alternatives to a very simple BIOS.
This is fascinating. Love to learn how those 8 bit computers of my youth worked. Also, the 6502 and Z-80 are the true heroes of the 8 bit era.
Who could've imagined that there would be a bazillion versions of this game, kinda like how lots of vintage game came in IBM PC, Apple II, Macintosh and Atari versions?
I really like the work that has been put into something like this. Being an owner of an Apple IIc, this'll make a nice addition to the system. This is really cool!
I wish I could help out getting an NES or SNES port, but sadly the limit of my programming knowledge for those systems is that they run on the 6502 chip 🤣
Same here. I have an idea for an operating system for the NES, might have to be DOS like to keep it simple. Any thing like keyboard, save (SD card, probably), WiFi, etc might have to go through the cart or a home brew add-on to the NES expansion port. I know that the top loader doesn’t have that, same for the clones.
@@Kara_Kay_Eschel I was just thinking about a basic NES cartridge. Without worrying about some of the fancier memory controllers you can have a 256 kb game. If you used an MMC3 type memory controller you could have 512 KB for the program and another 256 KB for sprites and the like.
@@LifeWithMatthew there is already an official NES BASIC cart, it was only released in Japan for the Famicom as "family basic" had a keyboard and cassette interface on the keyboard.
@@harrisontashjian752 lol, I think there may have been a misunderstanding. When I said a "basic" NES cartridge I didn't mean the programing language, but basic as in simple.
Basic as in simple not BASIC as in something to write games or simple programs.
Always a pleasure watching your content David :)
And hey, if you ever do a more finalized batch of Atari versions, the versions with stickers instead of print will be collectors items! lol