Fabius Bile enhances one squad and then joins another giving them both fearless. Buffing one makes them a threat, but putting your warlord in the other paints them as an equal target. Make a fire base with predators, hellbrutes, and quad gun. If you take abbadon as your warlord you get 5 man chosen as troop that can take a lascannons! There is always something that every codex does better and i personally feel that chaos were the first codex stripped of that.
I agree, with you on this one. Bring in a single Heldrake with its Flamer change up. you get something those longfangs are gonna have alot of trouble trying to shoot at and the S6 AP3 flammer that ignores cover saves is gonna roast those missle launcher spam.
What champion of chaos should have been in my opinion is, "the chaos champion must challenge in every round of combat. They can also choose which enemy character they challenge. that model must accept the challenge" This way you can dodge models you cant kill for a turn, and you can strategically pull out characters you know would eat your marines by sacrificing a worse character and let your lord go to town in the combat.
2x Chaos Lords in termi armour with combi-melta, power weapon, mark of Khorne, Sigil of Corruption, vet of the long war. 4x 10 man Khorne Bezerker squads with Rhino transports, and finally 2x 5 man termi squads with combi-melta, power weapon, mark of Khorne, vet of the long war. Put the lords in the termi squads and deep strike while the bezerkers try to take objectives.
try this list. one chaos lord mark of slaanesh, 20 raptors icon of excess mark of slaanesh vets of long war, 10 noise marines, 10 csm, 6 chaos terminators mark of nurgle, 6 obliterators. sonic weapons ignore cover, flamers and plasma in the raptors, meltas and axes and flamers in the terminators, heavy long range in oblits w/ deep strike, lord has lightning claws and dimensional key for deep striking units to not scatter, and a combat familiar for 2 extra attacks. no rhinos. fast and slow army. shooty and close combat. try it.
I believe that thigns stop as soon as you face a 'good player'. A good player can win with a substandard army, ignoring luck of the dice as you should.
also havocs may cost more for less men, but im sure they may get a sweet chaos gift/mark/icon. 10 man units with las cannos, snapshots and advanceing fire. warp tallons and mutilators deepstriking with the warp key artifact, terminators/chosen lightning claw equiped deepstriking/ advanceing, distracting/ drawing fire. "Ho hum..."
I think that that main downfall is the lack of support firepower. Having the marks of slaanesh big blogs is a great idea for combat, but because they have no support your enemy will be taking no or minimal casualties at range. They know exactly what you have to do to inflict damage and can counter it with lots of ranged shots (aka all those longfangs). If those missiles were shooting down your longer range support those marines could have survived more before engaging.
If you have assault troops never leave home without some sort of fire support, otherwise you are most likely dead As for the chaos list, on on the fly I´d dropped the mark of nurgle on the terminators, the HB and Havocs on the preds and a few marines and gotten a defiler for that
I wonder how an army featuring Helbrute(s) with Plasma Cannon/Power Scourge, Drake(s) w/Baleflamers, Terminators with Combi-Plasma/Axes, Bikers, and Maulerfiend(s) would do. Then, instead of spending a fortune trying to make standard ho-hum CSM's compete with overpowered Space Wolf troops, bring 3 blobs of 35 Cultists to take objectives. Heck depending on points, ally with Daemons, bring a shooty Tzeentch Herald on Disk, big unit of Flamers, unit of Horrors, and a unit of Screamers.
Darrell -Due to Leaders of the pack rule(page 81 of SW codex).I thought every HQ choice had to be different (Psychic powers and Wargear).Due to the Wolves far to proud and individualistic for such unimaginative tactics.Other then that your SW army looks really good.
The released Chaos, then Dark Angels, and the Daemons because those are what th starter set themes are. For someone getting into the hobby and collecting DA or Chaos because of the starter kit, it can help keep them hooked and sell models. I agree that Eldar need an update but so do DA. Daemons not so much, but they are the "fluffy" allies for CSM so I guess it makes sense.
the problem here is that versus close combat space wolves you dont use close combat as well. you take thousand sons and destroy the space wolves before they get to close combat
Is it possible for you guys at Beats of war to do a second match and Battlefield autopsy approximately after a Month to show what you have learned/ tried and how you have adapted with a new codex. Other than that the quick run through is a good idea and cool but having a rehash could let us the audience and potential consumers of the Codex and GWS goods get a better impression. I am looking forward to your CODEX: Chaos Daemons week keep up the good work.
Phil Kelly has this vision of everything being balanced/fair and writes his books as such, but when most authors at GW don't follow this premise it means you get a book that is lower tier in strength ala the new CSM Codex. Plus, the book does have bad unit mutilators are horrible: a slow & bulky CC unit? I'll stick with oblits. Essentially him him you get a book that is nice and fluffy but nothing that makes you go WOW!
And lastly! A 20 man squad can indeed take a rhino and have it drive sideways up the field as a line of sight blocker. If all 3 squads bought one they could go nose to nose in front of all the squads and at least save most of them from 1 round of shooting. That said, noise marines definitely got the biggest boost. S8 ap3 48" ignores cover small blast that doesn't get hot?? It's brutal. And if someone does wanna get close? Doom siren. And hell! If you wanna go for broke, take all sonic
My take on allies: Allies are to 'plug the problem gap' in your army, for example my chaos do not have much in terms of anti air capacity or anti AV14 (tri guard tan squads) so to combat this I get an ally either to deal with them, or to counter them. Allies do not make 6th ed armies, players make good armies, allies is just a choice. also the champion issue, wolfs have 3 AP2 weapons, counter attack, KnF, psychic powers, chaos has 2 AP3 at most... who wins in combat...
Alternatively, some fast units like 15 man raptors, bikers, or those warp talons dropping in and engagin (and blinding) those long fangs and then multicharging them all would have been very wise. You don't have to kill them, just make sure they aren't shooting you, and your marines can go chomp away at the survivors or now, unsupported Blood Claw units.
I think they're comin at it from the wrong point of view. First of all Darrell's wolves list had like 3 characters per squad, where we didn't see near that kind of support from the chaos units. Second, I really do believe that huron blackheart is gonna be the paterfamilius. Had he infiltrated the terminators with huron he'd have put them in rapid fire melt range
Ya he should have put in some helldrakes with their flamers they would have wrecked the gunline + the autocannon turrit isn't that effective against them. And some oblits with plasma cannons are good too.
Now the bolter is a ‘one-shot deal’, with an effective range of 30” in units of 20 CSMs??? A unit like that with MoS doesn’t need to charge and dares anyone else to charge it, it can just stand there in rapid fire range and hose down whatever unit happens to be in its way - 40 S4 shots at BS4 is the kind of thing that would put the shits up even the likes of TH/SS terminators. It's all about boots on the ground and shots in the air, and a good CSM list is well able to provide plenty of them.
I think you guys can maybe see why you still need transports... and deepstrikers/fast movers. Also I think slannesh wasn't the best choice of mark. I would go with nurgle... maybe khorne if you're committed to CC.
Why not run your Chaos Marines as Noise Marines instead? You have a Slaanesh Lord so it doesn't take any HQ swaps. They have Fearless built in, an Icon that gives them FNP, a cheap CCW upgrade at the cost of Special Weapon options (which you took none anyway).
Its really funny when people say that ( if you dont use them your army is NOT a 6th ed army and is NOT a good army). The player makes a good army, not the list. And honestly not the allies.
Plasma range** excuse me, turn 1. Of whatever he wanted, ideally long fangs. Thirdly, dakka preds? Drop those and go for hel drakes. They get guraunteed 2 s7 hits on flyover which is statistically better than the dakka pred ever could be, and has an ap3 flamer which will ignore any saves granted by an aegis. Sure heldrakes are points heavy but well worth it imho, one of the best flyers in the game.
For the points a Tac marine is better than a Chaos marine due to ATSKNF, makes the fearless banner a must buy to avoid getting swept in combat. Not to mention Grey Hunters & a lot of other basic troops (cron warrior). Point being I don't think this dex is up there with Necrons, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, mebe even BA & Daemons. If you are an avid competitive tournament player this dex will b challenging.
with the chaos marines could you not take 6 groups of 10 rather than 3 groups of 20 cos you can get more special weapons and its more to shoot at for the enemy
The best thing this dex does is assault, but unlike say orcs or nids your assault troops aren't cheap, fearless, & expendable. Nor are there any cost effective assault transport options (trukks) or way to make them faster (bounding leap, fleet, move thru cover). They are slow unless you want to spring for a LR. Rhinos are practically useless in 6th 4 an assault army. 6th is clearly a shooty meta(overwatch, rapid fire, snap fire) & that puts slow, expensive assault armies at a disadvantage.
Cut them some slack Guys, They actually complimented the Tau in this video but no one picked up on that. All i see is hating for the sake of hating. I am glad i watched this, every other channel is gushing about how great Chaos is. And i would have spent several hundred dollars if i have gone with what they said, only to find out that they were not as good as thought to be after spending all that cash. Love Chaos week BOW, I love Battlefield autopsy Darryl. Please make more of these. :)
In fact, I would almost say with the new Codex Chaos went down in many way. Daemon Princes are way overcosted, Mark of Tzeentch doesn't work well on Daemons as it doesn't help the invulnerable, in fact Tzeentch and Khorne both seem like bunk, pretty much the only viable list I see the codex railroads you into is Nurlge list followed closely by Slaanesh. Why should Tzeenth the lord of magic's powers suck so bad?
Ive played two games against a Plague Marine list lead by Typhus and a level 3 Sorcerer, Plague Marines with Toughness 5 and FNP for another Marine player is a nightmare to take down he also had a Unit of Talons who Deep striked into my lines causing units next to them to be WS and BS 1. the chaos psykers got a big boost and their list ignored that fact. I dont understand why GW is releasing CSM then Dark Angels then Daemons, Chaos players have been given a huge boost SM should have been next!
Also, the new codex hurts because all the old troop choices are no specials unless you unlock them and your lord can't join units not having his mark. the codex is typical phil kelly great on fluff but wiht some real design flaws just like his Warriors of Chaos book that he wrote for fantasy.
I can see where you're coming from however I would have to disagree. No transports because Rhino's are, as they said, coffins. The only alternative being Land Raiders and they're expensive and don't dish out too much pain, unless your a vehicle. Bolters aren't that good either. Yes they're better but they're not as good as charging with lot's of attacks. Most of the time assaults make or break an army. Forgefiends are short ranged and inaccurate at BS 3, and Heldrakes are over priced. Bill
Force org change is a dumb restriction that limits tactical options & railroads you into playing a specific style. Lord restriction is not moot because it effects core troop choices that is far from moot and it effects what units lords can join. GW has hasn't given up building OP books, the designers are just incosistent. One designer will write a book that is WOW while Kelly will write something EH. Look at the new WHFB books Tomb Kings are fairly balanced, Ogre Kingdoms are Overpowered.
I would say allies are an option but I see people playing armies without allies & doing well; blood angels, grey knights, space woves, necrons, I have seen played w/o allies, even a guard list that seem to do well. Plus are battle brothers are daemons. Doesn't seem very good giving up CSM for a daemon scoring unit. It seems the Codex has some big design flaws and not as good as other armies, and that challenge rule is stupid.
If ur goin against other marines its good to have slaanesh idk y people don't like that it's good combat units ones ment for melee cuz u go before the other marines but I wouldn't take that many regular csm I would deep strike warp talons after send a daemon with demensional key and take terminators with slaanesh and LCs I would take a power sword it's basic doesn't make u go last and goes through marines armor and I'd take a defiler no preditors and havocs with lascannons.
You can't sweeping advance with the Terminator Armour in the blood claws.... just saying. List.... If your man spamming, why! why! why! Are they not units of 20 with FNP or T5?
So the moral of this story ISN'T that Chaos is underpowered or a weak codex. It's that Space Wolves are ridiculously overpowered and cheap. I highly doubt this is "the best chaos army" as they are saying in the video.
Dat lists. All wrong. HQ: Take a sorc (with the telepathy primaris power) or a daemon prince with wings & black mace, unless you're unlocking cult marines with a lord. Troops: Either cult marines (plague or noise marines are probably the best) or cultists. Elites: Don't bother really. Fast Attack: Heldrake(s). Maybe even Warp Talons /w MoS against Space Marines. That'll wreck them. Heavy support: Obliterators all the way. I somewhat agree though, the Champion of Chaos rule is a big problem.
WH is a fun game but Chaos as an army needs a power increase in both WHFB & 40k. I do have to say I think WHFB is a more fun game than 40k & more tactical w/movement and such. As you pointed out the chaos powers are not really as good as the core book and I am willing to bet the ones in specific armies in subsequent books will be better. Again PK writes these no frill books with WOC rules and are cosntantly not able to buy what other armies can and has stupid rules like champion of chaos.
No need to personalize a discussion attack the arguer not the argument. Other marines have drop pods to get large squads across the table w/o have to slog across and get shot up. CSM have no drop pod access which is dumb. Their troops slog across and get shop and their shit is expensive. Do you get this man? No drop pods the same is true in fantasy slow warriors that slog across and suffer mass casualties to artillery and then have to challenge and get their ass whooped when they get there.
I don't dig that chaos list. It was pretty weak. Well balanced for the most part but not particularly strong in many areas. I think they're are better options in the book
plus on his pricing the basic CSM is cheap (although the not so much if you are them wiht CC weapons without taking away bolters...other marines get CC for free, but outside of troops I don't thinkk he is fair price, Chaos is expensive. Like Darrell said his we equivalent to havocs only cost 5 pts more and can split fire. Come on man
Wow some one who speaks sense and uses logic, a rare thing in the hobby now days. I agree with you all the way im dropping my SM army for CSM, from what i have seen and read the new codex allows you to make an army that can rape most others e.g big unit of guardsmen meet the heldrake. CSM are now a lego army they have been stripped down to basic as standard so you can just build them up to be what ever you want. id like to see that gun line hold out against a couple of forgefiends.
Play against Chaos regularly.. not competitive against BA's at all. One time though a defiler did hold my TH+SS for 4 rounds!! Then they died by a Typhus+Termies Charge after finally killing the Defiler. Typhus and his Death Guard termies did get bent over when I shot them up with SternGuard (Inc Tycho+ Corbulo) and a Dev squad. That was all he had left on the board in a 1500pt so victory was mine! Muhahaha!
Now calling me an idiot wasn't very smart. As I said I can understand where you are coming from however Rhinos are vulnerable to just about anything, when it inevitably get's blown up it will get some free hits on the guys inside. Line of sight blockers? Focus Fire. Havoc Launchers? Unless your electing to move only 6 inches then you can't use them. Cheap Allies? If you are referring to Orks then they'll get shot to hell and their transports are very risky. -Don't call me a bad player.
It sounds to me like you haven't TRIED to make a working armylist with a single codex and are running to fill your gaps with tried and tested allied units too quickly. Experiment more and try things out. Ive hardly used allies bar a couple Eldar/Tau outings and I've done absolutely fine.
Not sure, guys, but that list sounds terrible? No transports at all? No bolters, in an edition that makes bolters as good as they've ever been? And with no transports, you'd be able to shoot 24" while walking in. It's tough to judge at first glance but the list sounds really bad. No forgefiends for fire support? No heldrakes? Just not sure at all about the list.
Not all of Phil kelly's pricing is fair. WOC in WHFB is constantly outnumbered and outgunned and I get the same feeling when I play CSM, like all the pressure is on me to get across the field & do something while my enemy outnumbers me & shoots. He is not good because of his like of arbitrary charts and chaos having to challenge. I may be a nood to 40k but in fantasy we have lived with this for a long time and it sucks. On this boon table you got a good chance spawn or nothing. The rule sucks,
it could have been a good video, if you guys would have been understandable. One guy is extremly loud, another one barely hearable and one in the middle. Sort out the audio issues pls
That's fine if u disagree. You want to get pissed about a post on youtube & start insulting people that's your prob. The holes in the dex are already well documented. I've been playing chaos for 15 years & winning more often than not. The dex offers nothing to cost effectively deal with flyer spam (cron air, vendettas), plus adding insult to injury we have the most retarded looking flyer IMO.
Except Heldrakes, maulerfiends, flying daemon princes (omg that statline!), double blast noise marines, zombie cultists and Huron beg to disagree with you and all of the beasts of war noobs. All curiously absent from the 'best CSM' army list above. Surprise surprise he got creamed by Darrell *facepalm*
Force org changes is nice & fluffy but mechanically does nothing but nerf already lower tier army. A lord shouldn't be restricted from joining a unit with a different mark. If WHFB 8th did this it would be abysmal. Yes, a Tzeentch's Lord 3+ inv is good but 1000 sons are not as good of troop choices as PMs or NM, in any remotely competitive list for CSM Nurgle & Slaanesh seem to be the way to go. Phil Kelly is not the best writer at GW. For the reason you named
Other marine armies are stronger than chaos, later books won't change it. The exact opposite in fact. PK wrote this no frills, everything is OKAY but not WOW book and when writers like Vetok, jarvis, & Ward write the books they will be amazing. Look at the new WHFB books, TK, O&G are good and balanced i.e weaker than other armies. VCS are strong and the latest Ogres are ridiculous. WOC should have a new tome next year. I fear the name Phil Kelly on the cover. I pray we get Ward or Vetok.
Seems like a pretty weak chaos list. Well balanced but not good at anything. There are better choices than what you took. That being said I agree that the new dex is underpowered & will require very skillful play to be competitive in a tournament scene. A bit disappointed but I like it much more than the last 1. (I have been playing Chaos over a decade)
this army is so sick, it will rape every army, even a full genestealer list! OMG great guys really really great! i'll go to GW now and buy 4 new Chaos marine boxes and 2 terminator boxes!..... HA!
Take huron blackheart,outflank 3 units,rapid fire behind the wolves. Pisses me off that they are just saying negative things about the chaos codex. and they make shitty lists.
Hey man, i have reviews and thoughts on the CSM codex, i have 6 vids so far, please check em out, I have read some of your comments and would like your input on my vids. many thanks!
Another reassuring chaos video. don’t get me wrong guys i love your videos but with every chaos video it makes them look like crap. Let’s cut the fluff, chaos = pooh. *picks up chaos case and places it in the wardrobe* new army time
Fabius Bile enhances one squad and then joins another giving them both fearless. Buffing one makes them a threat, but putting your warlord in the other paints them as an equal target. Make a fire base with predators, hellbrutes, and quad gun. If you take abbadon as your warlord you get 5 man chosen as troop that can take a lascannons! There is always something that every codex does better and i personally feel that chaos were the first codex stripped of that.
I agree, with you on this one. Bring in a single Heldrake with its Flamer change up. you get something those longfangs are gonna have alot of trouble trying to shoot at and the S6 AP3 flammer that ignores cover saves is gonna roast those missle launcher spam.
What champion of chaos should have been in my opinion is, "the chaos champion must challenge in every round of combat. They can also choose which enemy character they challenge. that model must accept the challenge" This way you can dodge models you cant kill for a turn, and you can strategically pull out characters you know would eat your marines by sacrificing a worse character and let your lord go to town in the combat.
2x Chaos Lords in termi armour with combi-melta, power weapon, mark of Khorne, Sigil of Corruption, vet of the long war. 4x 10 man Khorne Bezerker squads with Rhino transports, and finally 2x 5 man termi squads with combi-melta, power weapon, mark of Khorne, vet of the long war. Put the lords in the termi squads and deep strike while the bezerkers try to take objectives.
try this list. one chaos lord mark of slaanesh, 20 raptors icon of excess mark of slaanesh vets of long war, 10 noise marines, 10 csm, 6 chaos terminators mark of nurgle, 6 obliterators. sonic weapons ignore cover, flamers and plasma in the raptors, meltas and axes and flamers in the terminators, heavy long range in oblits w/ deep strike, lord has lightning claws and dimensional key for deep striking units to not scatter, and a combat familiar for 2 extra attacks. no rhinos. fast and slow army. shooty and close combat. try it.
1999 pts. volw, and icon of vengeance is scattered in here as well.
I believe that thigns stop as soon as you face a 'good player'. A good player can win with a substandard army, ignoring luck of the dice as you should.
overlooking the potential of the forgefiend here
also havocs may cost more for less men, but im sure they may get a sweet chaos gift/mark/icon. 10 man units with las cannos, snapshots and advanceing fire. warp tallons and mutilators deepstriking with the warp key artifact, terminators/chosen lightning claw equiped deepstriking/ advanceing, distracting/ drawing fire. "Ho hum..."
I think that that main downfall is the lack of support firepower. Having the marks of slaanesh big blogs is a great idea for combat, but because they have no support your enemy will be taking no or minimal casualties at range. They know exactly what you have to do to inflict damage and can counter it with lots of ranged shots (aka all those longfangs). If those missiles were shooting down your longer range support those marines could have survived more before engaging.
If you have assault troops never leave home without some sort of fire support, otherwise you are most likely dead
As for the chaos list, on on the fly I´d dropped the mark of nurgle on the terminators, the HB and Havocs on the preds and a few marines and gotten a defiler for that
I wonder how an army featuring Helbrute(s) with Plasma Cannon/Power Scourge, Drake(s) w/Baleflamers, Terminators with Combi-Plasma/Axes, Bikers, and Maulerfiend(s) would do.
Then, instead of spending a fortune trying to make standard ho-hum CSM's compete with overpowered Space Wolf troops, bring 3 blobs of 35 Cultists to take objectives.
Heck depending on points, ally with Daemons, bring a shooty Tzeentch Herald on Disk, big unit of Flamers, unit of Horrors, and a unit of Screamers.
Rhinos are great.
They can have a Havoc Launcher, two Combi-Bolters and a Combi-Weapon.
Darrell -Due to Leaders of the pack rule(page 81 of SW codex).I thought every HQ choice had to be different (Psychic powers and Wargear).Due to the Wolves far to proud and individualistic for such unimaginative tactics.Other then that your SW army looks really good.
the bikers definitely seem to be the way to go, or the melee jump pack troops
The released Chaos, then Dark Angels, and the Daemons because those are what th starter set themes are. For someone getting into the hobby and collecting DA or Chaos because of the starter kit, it can help keep them hooked and sell models. I agree that Eldar need an update but so do DA. Daemons not so much, but they are the "fluffy" allies for CSM so I guess it makes sense.
the problem here is that versus close combat space wolves you dont use close combat as well. you take thousand sons and destroy the space wolves before they get to close combat
I had no issue understanding the video at all. It was a tad low, but I simply turned up the volume...
Is it possible for you guys at Beats of war to do a second match and Battlefield autopsy approximately after a Month to show what you have learned/ tried and how you have adapted with a new codex. Other than that the quick run through is a good idea and cool but having a rehash could let us the audience and potential consumers of the Codex and GWS goods get a better impression. I am looking forward to your CODEX: Chaos Daemons week keep up the good work.
Phil Kelly has this vision of everything being balanced/fair and writes his books as such, but when most authors at GW don't follow this premise it means you get a book that is lower tier in strength ala the new CSM Codex. Plus, the book does have bad unit mutilators are horrible: a slow & bulky CC unit? I'll stick with oblits. Essentially him him you get a book that is nice and fluffy but nothing that makes you go WOW!
And lastly! A 20 man squad can indeed take a rhino and have it drive sideways up the field as a line of sight blocker. If all 3 squads bought one they could go nose to nose in front of all the squads and at least save most of them from 1 round of shooting. That said, noise marines definitely got the biggest boost. S8 ap3 48" ignores cover small blast that doesn't get hot?? It's brutal. And if someone does wanna get close? Doom siren. And hell! If you wanna go for broke, take all sonic
My take on allies: Allies are to 'plug the problem gap' in your army, for example my chaos do not have much in terms of anti air capacity or anti AV14 (tri guard tan squads) so to combat this I get an ally either to deal with them, or to counter them. Allies do not make 6th ed armies, players make good armies, allies is just a choice. also the champion issue, wolfs have 3 AP2 weapons, counter attack, KnF, psychic powers, chaos has 2 AP3 at most... who wins in combat...
Alternatively, some fast units like 15 man raptors, bikers, or those warp talons dropping in and engagin (and blinding) those long fangs and then multicharging them all would have been very wise. You don't have to kill them, just make sure they aren't shooting you, and your marines can go chomp away at the survivors or now, unsupported Blood Claw units.
btw with flamers any more than 3 and you can flame turn you deep strike
What I want to know, with those large slaaneshi units, why no mark of excess? The feel no pain would've been amazing once you hit combat.
R.I.P Chaos Marines..we loved you when you were good.
Autopsy sounds kind of scary.
I think they're comin at it from the wrong point of view. First of all Darrell's wolves list had like 3 characters per squad, where we didn't see near that kind of support from the chaos units. Second, I really do believe that huron blackheart is gonna be the paterfamilius. Had he infiltrated the terminators with huron he'd have put them in rapid fire melt range
Ya he should have put in some helldrakes with their flamers they would have wrecked the gunline + the autocannon turrit isn't that effective against them. And some oblits with plasma cannons are good too.
Now the bolter is a ‘one-shot deal’, with an effective range of 30” in units of 20 CSMs???
A unit like that with MoS doesn’t need to charge and dares anyone else to charge it, it can just stand there in rapid fire range and hose down whatever unit happens to be in its way - 40 S4 shots at BS4 is the kind of thing that would put the shits up even the likes of TH/SS terminators. It's all about boots on the ground and shots in the air, and a good CSM list is well able to provide plenty of them.
I can't wait till there's a new Space Wolf codex, Darrell is going to actually cry when they nerf a bunch of stuff.
I think you guys can maybe see why you still need transports... and deepstrikers/fast movers. Also I think slannesh wasn't the best choice of mark. I would go with nurgle... maybe khorne if you're committed to CC.
Why not run your Chaos Marines as Noise Marines instead?
You have a Slaanesh Lord so it doesn't take any HQ swaps.
They have Fearless built in, an Icon that gives them FNP, a cheap CCW upgrade at the cost of Special Weapon options (which you took none anyway).
Its really funny when people say that ( if you dont use them your army is NOT a 6th ed army and is NOT a good army).
The player makes a good army, not the list. And honestly not the allies.
how about slaanesh blast masters? for long range support?
Plasma range** excuse me, turn 1. Of whatever he wanted, ideally long fangs. Thirdly, dakka preds? Drop those and go for hel drakes. They get guraunteed 2 s7 hits on flyover which is statistically better than the dakka pred ever could be, and has an ap3 flamer which will ignore any saves granted by an aegis. Sure heldrakes are points heavy but well worth it imho, one of the best flyers in the game.
Well they did think the heldrake was worthless, I think they just didn't know how to play chaos
For the points a Tac marine is better than a Chaos marine due to ATSKNF, makes the fearless banner a must buy to avoid getting swept in combat. Not to mention Grey Hunters & a lot of other basic troops (cron warrior). Point being I don't think this dex is up there with Necrons, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, mebe even BA & Daemons. If you are an avid competitive tournament player this dex will b challenging.
with the chaos marines could you not take 6 groups of 10 rather than 3 groups of 20 cos you can get more special weapons and its more to shoot at for the enemy
My 9 Valkyries would smash both of them list
The best thing this dex does is assault, but unlike say orcs or nids your assault troops aren't cheap, fearless, & expendable. Nor are there any cost effective assault transport options (trukks) or way to make them faster (bounding leap, fleet, move thru cover). They are slow unless you want to spring for a LR. Rhinos are practically useless in 6th 4 an assault army. 6th is clearly a shooty meta(overwatch, rapid fire, snap fire) & that puts slow, expensive assault armies at a disadvantage.
Cut them some slack Guys, They actually complimented the Tau in this video but no one picked up on that. All i see is hating for the sake of hating.
I am glad i watched this, every other channel is gushing about how great Chaos is. And i would have spent several hundred dollars if i have gone with what they said, only to find out that they were not as good as thought to be after spending all that cash. Love Chaos week BOW, I love Battlefield autopsy Darryl. Please make more of these. :)
In fact, I would almost say with the new Codex Chaos went down in many way. Daemon Princes are way overcosted, Mark of Tzeentch doesn't work well on Daemons as it doesn't help the invulnerable, in fact Tzeentch and Khorne both seem like bunk, pretty much the only viable list I see the codex railroads you into is Nurlge list followed closely by Slaanesh. Why should Tzeenth the lord of magic's powers suck so bad?
Ive played two games against a Plague Marine list lead by Typhus and a level 3 Sorcerer, Plague Marines with Toughness 5 and FNP for another Marine player is a nightmare to take down he also had a Unit of Talons who Deep striked into my lines causing units next to them to be WS and BS 1. the chaos psykers got a big boost and their list ignored that fact. I dont understand why GW is releasing CSM then Dark Angels then Daemons, Chaos players have been given a huge boost SM should have been next!
Also what's a Prediror?
Also, the new codex hurts because all the old troop choices are no specials unless you unlock them and your lord can't join units not having his mark. the codex is typical phil kelly great on fluff but wiht some real design flaws just like his Warriors of Chaos book that he wrote for fantasy.
I'd expect a well-written list to do well against SW.
I can see where you're coming from however I would have to disagree. No transports because Rhino's are, as they said, coffins. The only alternative being Land Raiders and they're expensive and don't dish out too much pain, unless your a vehicle. Bolters aren't that good either. Yes they're better but they're not as good as charging with lot's of attacks. Most of the time assaults make or break an army. Forgefiends are short ranged and inaccurate at BS 3, and Heldrakes are over priced.
Bill
yes rhinos die... but they are usually terrrain giving cover to the guys running behind
Then you can add what ever support you would like to bulk it up to 2000 points
Force org change is a dumb restriction that limits tactical options & railroads you into playing a specific style. Lord restriction is not moot because it effects core troop choices that is far from moot and it effects what units lords can join. GW has hasn't given up building OP books, the designers are just incosistent. One designer will write a book that is WOW while Kelly will write something EH. Look at the new WHFB books Tomb Kings are fairly balanced, Ogre Kingdoms are Overpowered.
eh what about other non power armor armys like eldar or tau, i think they need an update before another power armor army
The Eldar need a new codex pretty please..
so try a 5 man squad of horrors for moving cover and i would try boon on my sergents. i would try at lest 1 chaos chaplian
I would say allies are an option but I see people playing armies without allies & doing well; blood angels, grey knights, space woves, necrons, I have seen played w/o allies, even a guard list that seem to do well. Plus are battle brothers are daemons. Doesn't seem very good giving up CSM for a daemon scoring unit. It seems the Codex has some big design flaws and not as good as other armies, and that challenge rule is stupid.
I know Darell in real life and btw, he is the biggest longfang spammer ever,
I feel that you have forgot the artifacts. black mace.
If ur goin against other marines its good to have slaanesh idk y people don't like that it's good combat units ones ment for melee cuz u go before the other marines but I wouldn't take that many regular csm I would deep strike warp talons after send a daemon with demensional key and take terminators with slaanesh and LCs I would take a power sword it's basic doesn't make u go last and goes through marines armor and I'd take a defiler no preditors and havocs with lascannons.
You can't sweeping advance with the Terminator Armour in the blood claws.... just saying.
List.... If your man spamming, why! why! why! Are they not units of 20 with FNP or T5?
I would sell my soul for an open-topped or a cheaper assault vehicle the the LR!
So the moral of this story ISN'T that Chaos is underpowered or a weak codex. It's that Space Wolves are ridiculously overpowered and cheap.
I highly doubt this is "the best chaos army" as they are saying in the video.
Why don't u guys do bat reps?
I fired this video hoping for some insight into the Chaos Marine Codex ... instead what I got was "Aren't I such a great Space Wolf player". Boring.
Dat lists. All wrong. HQ: Take a sorc (with the telepathy primaris power) or a daemon prince with wings & black mace, unless you're unlocking cult marines with a lord. Troops: Either cult marines (plague or noise marines are probably the best) or cultists. Elites: Don't bother really. Fast Attack: Heldrake(s). Maybe even Warp Talons /w MoS against Space Marines. That'll wreck them. Heavy support: Obliterators all the way.
I somewhat agree though, the Champion of Chaos rule is a big problem.
Say's cannot find useful tanks, enemy has no anti air, doesn't mention the Heldrake
curious to know why the power sword is free? O_O
WH is a fun game but Chaos as an army needs a power increase in both WHFB & 40k. I do have to say I think WHFB is a more fun game than 40k & more tactical w/movement and such. As you pointed out the chaos powers are not really as good as the core book and I am willing to bet the ones in specific armies in subsequent books will be better. Again PK writes these no frill books with WOC rules and are cosntantly not able to buy what other armies can and has stupid rules like champion of chaos.
No need to personalize a discussion attack the arguer not the argument. Other marines have drop pods to get large squads across the table w/o have to slog across and get shot up. CSM have no drop pod access which is dumb. Their troops slog across and get shop and their shit is expensive. Do you get this man? No drop pods the same is true in fantasy slow warriors that slog across and suffer mass casualties to artillery and then have to challenge and get their ass whooped when they get there.
I don't dig that chaos list. It was pretty weak. Well balanced for the most part but not particularly strong in many areas. I think they're are better options in the book
plus on his pricing the basic CSM is cheap (although the not so much if you are them wiht CC weapons without taking away bolters...other marines get CC for free, but outside of troops I don't thinkk he is fair price, Chaos is expensive. Like Darrell said his we equivalent to havocs only cost 5 pts more and can split fire. Come on man
You can tell someone is not impressed...
Wow some one who speaks sense and uses logic, a rare thing in the hobby now days. I agree with you all the way im dropping my SM army for CSM, from what i have seen and read the new codex allows you to make an army that can rape most others e.g big unit of guardsmen meet the heldrake. CSM are now a lego army they have been stripped down to basic as standard so you can just build them up to be what ever you want. id like to see that gun line hold out against a couple of forgefiends.
Play against Chaos regularly.. not competitive against BA's at all. One time though a defiler did hold my TH+SS for 4 rounds!! Then they died by a Typhus+Termies Charge after finally killing the Defiler. Typhus and his Death Guard termies did get bent over when I shot them up with SternGuard (Inc Tycho+ Corbulo) and a Dev squad. That was all he had left on the board in a 1500pt so victory was mine! Muhahaha!
Now calling me an idiot wasn't very smart. As I said I can understand where you are coming from however Rhinos are vulnerable to just about anything, when it inevitably get's blown up it will get some free hits on the guys inside. Line of sight blockers? Focus Fire. Havoc Launchers? Unless your electing to move only 6 inches then you can't use them. Cheap Allies? If you are referring to Orks then they'll get shot to hell and their transports are very risky. -Don't call me a bad player.
It sounds to me like you haven't TRIED to make a working armylist with a single codex and are running to fill your gaps with tried and tested allied units too quickly. Experiment more and try things out. Ive hardly used allies bar a couple Eldar/Tau outings and I've done absolutely fine.
LET THE RED RIVER FLOW!!!
Not if you're playing Nurgle... Har har har...
Not sure, guys, but that list sounds terrible? No transports at all? No bolters, in an edition that makes bolters as good as they've ever been? And with no transports, you'd be able to shoot 24" while walking in.
It's tough to judge at first glance but the list sounds really bad. No forgefiends for fire support? No heldrakes? Just not sure at all about the list.
acronyms!!! yay!!!
Not all of Phil kelly's pricing is fair. WOC in WHFB is constantly outnumbered and outgunned and I get the same feeling when I play CSM, like all the pressure is on me to get across the field & do something while my enemy outnumbers me & shoots. He is not good because of his like of arbitrary charts and chaos having to challenge. I may be a nood to 40k but in fantasy we have lived with this for a long time and it sucks. On this boon table you got a good chance spawn or nothing. The rule sucks,
it could have been a good video, if you guys would have been understandable. One guy is extremly loud, another one barely hearable and one in the middle. Sort out the audio issues pls
That's fine if u disagree. You want to get pissed about a post on youtube & start insulting people that's your prob. The holes in the dex are already well documented. I've been playing chaos for 15 years & winning more often than not. The dex offers nothing to cost effectively deal with flyer spam (cron air, vendettas), plus adding insult to injury we have the most retarded looking flyer IMO.
Except Heldrakes, maulerfiends, flying daemon princes (omg that statline!), double blast noise marines, zombie cultists and Huron beg to disagree with you and all of the beasts of war noobs. All curiously absent from the 'best CSM' army list above. Surprise surprise he got creamed by Darrell *facepalm*
Force org changes is nice & fluffy but mechanically does nothing but nerf already lower tier army. A lord shouldn't be restricted from joining a unit with a different mark. If WHFB 8th did this it would be abysmal. Yes, a Tzeentch's Lord 3+ inv is good but 1000 sons are not as good of troop choices as PMs or NM, in any remotely competitive list for CSM Nurgle & Slaanesh seem to be the way to go. Phil Kelly is not the best writer at GW. For the reason you named
Other marine armies are stronger than chaos, later books won't change it. The exact opposite in fact. PK wrote this no frills, everything is OKAY but not WOW book and when writers like Vetok, jarvis, & Ward write the books they will be amazing. Look at the new WHFB books, TK, O&G are good and balanced i.e weaker than other armies. VCS are strong and the latest Ogres are ridiculous. WOC should have a new tome next year. I fear the name Phil Kelly on the cover. I pray we get Ward or Vetok.
Would be good to actually see the games they play instead of just talking about it. Watching a match would be good.
Seems like a pretty weak chaos list. Well balanced but not good at anything. There are better choices than what you took. That being said I agree that the new dex is underpowered & will require very skillful play to be competitive in a tournament scene. A bit disappointed but I like it much more than the last 1. (I have been playing Chaos over a decade)
this army is so sick, it will rape every army, even a full genestealer list! OMG great guys really really great! i'll go to GW now and buy 4 new Chaos marine boxes and 2 terminator boxes!..... HA!
Champion of Chaos is going to b a b!tch going forward & there is no way around it.
I honestly think they know nothing about chaos or are being paid to maket them look bad :/.
wtf is that list.......
massively beardy git like army....for the Wolves but what do you expect?
that chaos list was not very good at all
Take huron blackheart,outflank 3 units,rapid fire behind the wolves. Pisses me off that they are just saying negative things about the chaos codex. and they make shitty lists.
Hey man, i have reviews and thoughts on the CSM codex, i have 6 vids so far, please check em out, I have read some of your comments and would like your input on my vids. many thanks!
Another reassuring chaos video. don’t get me wrong guys i love your videos but with every chaos video it makes them look like crap. Let’s cut the fluff, chaos = pooh. *picks up chaos case and places it in the wardrobe* new army time
i'm sorry that is a TERRIBLE chaos list this whole thing is null and void
This was the best you could do? that list was awfull.
Yeah sorry. You are right. I am cant play 40k, I dont use allies. You are the god of gaming. You are a noob.