I just got back from a vacation in Japan and realized my exact Japanese level when sitting next to a family at a café and not being able to understand overhearing the parents when they spoke to each other but understanding them perfectly when they addressed their 3 year old child
I understand you, I can watch kids cartoons in Japanese without problem but when I try a more complicated one I'm totally lost lol. My level is improving really fast and all by myself, now I should try writing something lol.
Sounds good. I don't get why so many people feel the need to somehow "strike back" or "get the last word" as if they've somehow been "wronged". It's very bizarre since getting jouzu'd isn't a bad thing and in fact, it's quite helpful.
@@Archedgar i don't know if it's helpful or not but for sure they don't mean anything bad at all, viceversa. Most of the people that feel offended or anything by that just don't understand japanese culture and/or mentality i'd say.
@@theramendutchman My favourite instance of being 上手ed was at a bar when I was chatting with the Japanese bar tender. Another customer pipes in 日本語が上手ですね and the bar tender immediately responds ありがとう.
I'm at 0.5. I understand enough to understand that I, essentially, don't understand anything at all and all I see is a mountain of language in front of me.
"I think my Japanese is pretty good. Everyone is telling me that my Japanese is jouzu, which means good!" "Dude, it's time for you to know." "What? Everyone is telling me that!" "Yesterday I saw a Japanese telling his dog that its Japanese was jouzu."
You'll know it's real when they have a sort of amazed expression. I got that with chopsticks; my chopsticks game is probably the top .1% of foreigners, able to pick up single grains of rice in rapid succession, and I know all the moves, including that yes, straight up stabbing is actually OK from time to time. So I took the 上手 because goddamnit, I'd earned it.
@@dogchaser520 imagine typing a cluster of clauses that derails "nihongo jouzu" almost entirely to boast about how you're better than 99.9% of us at using chopsticks
@@AdamOwenBrowning Imagine not understanding irony on the internet. I'm pretty good with chopsticks, though not amazing. Enough that some people were genuinely impressed when I lived in Japan. It's not exactly important. Though for whatever reason, it does say a lot about you, culturally, in Japan. If you can't use chopsticks competently you're thought of as being childish and slow, a bit like someone who puts a fork in their fist and shovels food into their mouth in Western countries. Also, looks like Dogen deleted my response to the comment about it seeming like copypasta because it had profanity. Hey, I don't make the rules for the copypasta. I just tried to fit chopsticks into it. Thought it was pretty funny, but hey, everyone's a critic.
@@dogchaser520... Remembering slowly how much I suck at proper eating when we barely use a fork properly in Slavic countries and I'm even worse than most of them...
In actuality the tests around the Dunning Kruger effect where unable to be replicated so by that knowledge I'd conclude that it's closer to a hypothesis than a theory, in the peer review paperwork it shows a clear misunderstanding of mathematics which isn't such a good sign. Peer review doesn't mean what you think it means. The amount of people who underestimate/ overestimate their abilities/skills isn't as drastic as most claim it too be.
That was me when I met this one Japanese guy in my school. He insisted to carry the convo in Japanese with me, “dude, it’s been a few years since I last touch Japanese” I said, he ignored my explanation lol
Same. I used to study Japanese and then I went to a foreign country and when I came back everyone wants to speak with me and I had to explain that it had been 2 years since I'd said anything in Japanese to anyone.
Soon will be 1 year that I came back from Japan and haven’t talked properly in Japanese. Life is so unfair. I spent my many years to learn Japanese, then lived there 3.5 years while studing and working and got N1 level but only several months were enough to start to slowly forget it…
@@fidybeanbird relearning a language should be easier. anyway, my best suggestion would be to watch or listen to a lot of japanese content. gotta use the language as much as you can.
same, and it's really frustrating me. I've put Japanese on hold because I got a thesis to write and I feel so bad about it knowing I'm forgetting stuff while at the same time I don't feel like getting back to Japanese because I'm so demotivated ;;
Man, I relate. I'm too far into the game to quit and I can read manga in Japanese but it takes like 30-60 minutes and even still I don't always understand what I need to understand to enjoy it, you know? But just keep going, and try reading and listening to shows without english translations or subtitles, and eventually your brain will pick it up. That's my philosophy anyway. If you really make it feel as if its a need, by only watching anime and J dramas without eng subs and only reading manga and whatever else without english translations, you tend to pick up a lot more about the language because your brain deems it as relevant and stores it for later use.
The number of times I've had that exact Full Circle conversation. I tried telling people 死ぬまで「まだまだ」です but I don't think anyone could appreciate the dark humor.
First time I went to Japan and I literally only knew "arigatogosaimasu" and "Konnichiwa" (With a very, very, very heavy Dutch accent) and I still got the same compliment..
From what I've been told, they just say that because they want to make small talk, but there's nothing else to say, so they default to that empty compliment.
Imagine going to a McDonald's, and while youre counting your change the cashier said "wow, you're so good at numbers!" That's how it feels getting nihingojouzudesune'ed. EVERY. TIME.
@@coconutpineapple2489 真面目学生！（Sorry, that was on one of my flash cards.） I used to say ゴミバカ instead of ゴミ箱, and once said that to a happy guy who was holding out a garbage bag at the end of a festival. It still makes me laugh. I hope he just thought I was a confused foreigner.
My Japanese boyfriend is volunteering in Malawi right now, he ran into 2 japanese customers which he served. He overheard them speaking in Japanese, so he responded to them in Japanese naturally. To which they then proceeded to continue in English and then said “日本語上手ですね“ YOU CANT WIN EVEN IF YOURE JAPANESE
I felt so called out with number 3!!! I was exactly like this with sweet 15 years lol. And when you said 訓練 (training), I was like "heh, I know this word from Attack on Ti-... oh."
Lmao for reaaaal 😂😂 I'm currently N5 and idk how to say "Please help, I'm lost" but somehow know "The blades won't pierce through..." and "Are we doing this?! Right here?! Right now?!" 😂
Not trying to discredit him but still you gotta keep in mind that he re-records his scripted skit it over and over until it sounds good (or bad) enough. Like, sure, he means business but most of the time we don't hear him speaking impromptu...
@@八咫烏-u1y I think the point of the original comment was that even when Dogen tries to make his Japanese sound bad by messing up pitch, it still just sounds like a native Japanese faking it because pitch and pronunciation is fully built into him. The fact that Dogen can re-record the script gives even more credibility to his Japanese ability since supposedly he can't fully mess up his accent even after several takes.
@@八咫烏-u1y You should see him on other youtubers' videos like when he got 1st place in The Anime Man's Japanese quiz, scoring 10/10. His mannerism and speech (in English) is the same in his videos.
This was too real...not sure if I should love or hate this video haha XD To the point that I was a RADWIMPS fan since way before Your Name came out >_< But seriously, having lived in Japan and knowing many others who did or do, this was so recognisable; I laughed non-stop X'D
NHK staff: Do you have a TV? If you answered YES: You have to pay for it. If you answered NO: A 30 minutes conversation will start and you’ll end up paying.
Still a better outcome than a few years ago in Sweden when people would come to your apartment and try to look past you, into your apartment, to see if you were secretly hiding a TV or not. Thankfully they opted to put that on the general taxes instead of sending these goons to constantly harass people to pay. I understand the usefulness of having a non-state sponsored TV channel stuff that anyone can watch that can openly criticize the government and stuff but that shit was intolerable how they'd hound you. So I imagine it's like that.
at least it's cheaper than in Germany. According to the wikipedia page of the NHK the maximum you would pay is the equivalent of 190€, if you have satellite. For non sat tv it's 109€, in Okinawa it's 96 for non sat and 177 for sat. and you can get 4€ off with a standing order In Germany you just pay 210€, no discounts and no opting out because you don't have a tv. Unless you are getting unemployment benefits, get student funding, are deaf and blind (at the same time), or have dementia or autism you'll have to pay this TV/Radio or not
or you can just close the door, it's literally PUA/salesman tactics, making you think you have to give them the time of day while you actually dont owe them shit
Every level, as other guy said. That's literally language learning. The best defense against this is to just steamroll ahead and say something incorrect. That's what successful learners do. If you beat yourself up about it, you literally will never learn a language.
@@theramendutchman no. More like Person:「日本語が上手です！」 Me: 「あははは、そうですか」* I ask in a playful, disbelieving tone, and then proceed to berate myself mentally on why I couldn’t respond better and JUST TALK DANG IT T_T *
@@dont_harsh_my_mellow > あははは I feel so bad to have read this as "awawawa" and then realizing it's "ahahaha". I think katakana would be a better choice in this case.
@@default632 yeah I considered it when I first posted it. You’ll see it says it was edited. But I decided I wanted to leave it in as I felt it captured my conflict. 😭
went through all the stages with a couple other languages (sadly not Japanese), was genuinely expecting the last stage to be ‘thank you, that’s so nice’
What's wrong with saying ''thank you, I appreciate that''? There is clearly no offence intended and not implying that you are a beginner, people need to stop being so thin-skinned.
@@holliswilliams8426 AFAIK it's not "wrong" it just doesn't abide to japanese levels of politeness. It's more natural to deny a compliment than to take a compliment, because most people living there do that. Responding in an unexpected way will probably make it harder for them to respond, so instead of saying "Ah thanks" it's better to answer in a way they would.
I came full circle recently with all 3 languages I speak (English + two mother tongues). I was born in the states and spent a decade studying in India. Now I question every sentence I speak-all of it sounds, to me, either surreal or unreal when I hear myself speak.
Yup, same here. I find it harder and harder to find the right word for whatever I'm trying to say. The Swedish equivalent is not as powerful as the English, the Icelandic is kind of not really the same thing but still has a better feel to it, and what I really want to use is the Japanese one but then no one will understand what that means and now I don't remember what I was saying in the first place.
Well, I can say the same about my mothertongue... I thought I was proficient in high school, then started doubting myself in university getting a degree in journalism. Now I work as a proofreader ALWAYS checking dictionaries
I noticed his pitch accent was way off; lots of 頭高 pronuntiations. Though I'd probably suck just as much, or at most my pronuntiation would be so mediocre it wouldn't even be that amusing for the natives.
yeah but you understood everything! so tbh why care about pitch accent after all? If your goal is to sound like a native then sure go on, but if you just want to communicate then just learn the words - Japanese is one of the easiest languages in regards to pronounciation I've ever studied
Since you're watching Dogen I'm sure you're well aware of this, but the issue with Japanese is that pitch accent denotes meaning in a bunch of words due to the humongous amount of homophones there are in Japanese. It does so in English as well, but not to the level that Japanese takes it.
@@m8onethousand I don't agree. Yes Japanese has more homophones than English, no question, but stress in English is far more important and more prominent than pitch accent in Japanese. Furthermore, even within Japan itself there is variation in pitch accent. Not all natives speak with the same pitch, and some young Japanese people even speak without any particular pitch accent at all.
I'm always impressed whenever someone who isn't native to english can express their thoughts naturally in english even if it comes out really harsh. I think that is really "knowing a language" and everything else is proficiency. Plus there are people native to my country who can't speak our language so.... yeah its good.
*"I have to pay it, despite the fact I don't have a TV"* _OOF,_ guess that's NHK in a nutshell lol Looks like this is Dogen's calling for help, who uses stamps, paper, and fax machine in 2021? Oh right Japan xD That ending, Dogen is roasting himself again? 😂
Please go to Germany if you have time. "What I have to pay just because I have an apartment?", "What those crazy rich family living in the same mansion have to pay the same as this single parent with 4 kids?"
@@StevenBara When I moved to Germany (without knowing that much German) the ARD ZDF was the first letter I got in the mail. Because I didn’t ask for any such service and nobody told me what that was. I thought it was some kind of scam and I threw the things directly into the trash for months. I ended up with a Bill of over 400€ before someone told me that it’s obligatory to pay for it, even tho I never signed up for anything and no one even explained what it was ( back then I had an ausbildungsvertrag and I got like 280€ a month, so it was hard to pay it off). Technically it should be illegal, since you didn’t sign up for anything, and there is literally no way to opt out (as a normal person). My German teacher kept getting them in the mail for years after he move out from Germany to another country. Even after he send them the papers to prove he didn’t live in Germany anymore they started sending them to his house abroad. Crazy.
@@Dunika yeah they are well known for harassing families by sending payment notices to deceased family members. It got a bit better now that every household has to pay without exception (almost). I'm sure that will be the same in Japan sooner or later.
As someone who’s learning Japanese for my foreign language class online it pains me to say that is exactly what I said to our sensei (doubtful note-checking and self-correction included) stage 1 is where it’s at
Are there more people who do that? I like traditional culture a lot as well as non otaku stuff, but everyone assumes that a learner of Japanese is a weeb
@@Tehmora I’m actually probably at the Dunning Kreuger dip within the range of novice to Dōgen’s Dunning Krueger reference. A meta-Krueger. By that I mean I’m aware my Japanese isn’t very good, I just don’t have a frame of reference to how not good it is. Because I don’t talk to people in Japanese.
@@DoctorLazertron if you think your japanese isn't good than you're not affected by Dunning Krueger, unless you're actually very good at it (reverse Dunning Krueger)
@@andreafantin9567 I know what the effect is, I just can’t spell it apparently. I was being sort of facetious. My Japanese isn’t good but just okay enough to cover some songs with an accent.
Dogen, you hit it out of the park with this! Even if I've seen this 8 months later, I'm glad to see you making videos like this again. I've missed your sense of humor!
Oooh, I loved the bonus easter egg at the end!! 日本語が凄く上手ですね！ Mine would have been the "Over enthusiastic Weeb" where the response would have been "本当に？わあ！嬉しいですね。どうもありがとうございました！”
I guess I exceeded Dunning Kreuger guy when I learned 鍛練 from HxH and then proceeded to go through a phase where I'd try to say it in every conversation to sound "smart" 🤦♂️
I learned from my teachers that the correct way to answer this question is: それほどでも。 I once tried it and people (pre)tend to get even more impressed by my Japanese.
Student: "Sensei, how long should I practise until I can finally say I'm good at Japanese?" Sensei: "Until you don't get "Nihongo jozu desune" anymore"
I'm number 2 for sure. By being a native spanish speaker I have the pronunciation kinda nailed down at this point, but inside my head I feel like I can say a lot even though I probably couldn't say "I´m watching a dogen video" in Japanese.
I met a native Japanese who Nihongo Jouzu'd me after only a few months of study. I gave her a look like "girl, I know you fucking lying". She avoided eye contact. The jouzu truly has endless comedy potential.
Stage 10: After 10 years in Japan and often mistaken for a native on the phone, you get sick of being humble and realize it won't make you more Japanese, so you just say ありがとうございます＾＾うれしいです(*ﾉωﾉ)
Same. I can read and write in japanese using all n5 and most n4 kanji with some help from apps. But if you want me to speak with someone id rather run away screaming from terror. Sudenly I forgot all those fance particles, formal constuctions, no ne sa da and etc sentence enders, difference between tara and kara and so on. I degrade to a level of most basic japanese because that all I remember perfectly. Which is funny because I dont have same problem with english. I successfully forgot 90% of english grammar, 7 out of 12 verbs times, their 2 and 3rd forms. And yet I can still talk and write in english with enough confidence to ignore all mistakes I make.
I recognized your name! Four times as many people have walked on the moon as have non-native kanji students reached the top rank of kanji mastery as you have. People in these comment sections should be fawning over you! That you are only the third person to not study kanji from childhood and still reach the highest level really demonstrations the complexity of the Japanese writing system. And Level 1 is only about triple the 2136 official joyo kanji! I felt less intimidated about amount of memorization involved in learning Japanese when I learned that most Japanese speakers seem to be fine with command of the joyo kanji or less, as far as I can tell, and reading ability is more important to communication than writing ability. But even a lifetime of learning doesn't take one to kanji mastery unless a special effort is made over many years to become a kanji master. I'm sorry, I feel like I'm wasting the time of someone unique and important with my ignorant musings. Please tell me, what is your opinion on writing reform of the Japanese language? I know Korea eliminated the use of Chinese characters in their language, vastly simplifying their writing system. There exist alternative scripts for Japanese, including the hiragana syllabary (which could be used exclusively in place of kanji), romanization (Hepburn or Kunrei-shiki), and several effective methods of Japanese shorthand. One modern shorthand writing system, EPSEMS, is even designed to be used to write both Japanese and English. The complexity of Japanese, especially the written language, does discourage myself and others from pursuing it. I am not motivated to make the time investment to learn to write Japanese properly. I wouldn't use it often enough to justify the hours of study. I'm interested in learning Japanese, but not enough to devote years of my life to it. So I probably won't, unless I gain a new reason or opportunity to learn the language that increases my motivation to do so.
@@Paelorian i would say that for any language where a substantial part of its vocabulary is based on Chinese loanwords getting rid of kanji would cause a huge amount of mess... mess... mess... probably similar to the one that would have happened to Chinese if they abandoned their "kanji": go to any dictionary, and count how many "words" are there with reading like "こうこう" or "そうそう"... then go on to think what would happen if you didn't have kanji to logographically differentiate between different meanings. madness. pure madness. but what i personally find equally inexplicable is why chinese would not come up with some sort of "hiragana" / "katakana" of their own to write down loanwords or foreign names - because right not it looks like a mess of its own kind (i am not a big chinese language buff so i may be mistaken). many accuse japanese of being too complicated but from my viewpoint it is quite logical and rational giving the circumstances of historical development of japanese language - yes, it may not be easy to learn for foreigners but in itself it not more difficult for native speakers than, for example, russian is for russian native speakers
@@EvgenyUskov So the value of kanji is distinguishing homophones? But doesn't the spoken language prove that it is not a problem, since spoken Japanese is understood fine through context? The use of different characters to distinguish homophones in Chinese is very imperfect solution that creates further problems through differentiating the written language from the spoken language it should represent, as demonstrated by the poem _Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den_ (施氏食獅史, _Shī-shì shí shī shǐ_ ). Wouldn't writing that only captures the sound of Japanese still be easy to understand for Japanese speakers? Korea used a mixed phonetic-logographic (Hangul and Hanja) system similar to Japanese. In just the last fifty years or so, both North and South Korea have gone fully phonetic and ceased the common use of Chinese characters. It seems to have worked well for them. Hangul are quite different from kana, but both are written in syllable blocks. There is always some "messiness" in language reform, but it is sometimes justified. The objection I hear most often to reliance on kana is not actually that it makes communication more difficult. It's merely that the absence of kanji "looks like a child's writing". Isn't that just elitism? The more kanji you use, the more literate you are. Mass comprehension is sacrificed in order to display education, indicating class status. While I understand that this was historically important to Japanese culture, I don't think separating educated classes from the uneducated through the use of a wider variety of kanji is as important as being understood. I most value accuracy, then ease of comprehension, then ease of expression, then conciseness. While people manage to achieve fluency in their native language everywhere in the world, Japanese do need to make more effort than most to achieve literacy and especially written fluency. They do continue studying kanji at least through high school, and to become more literate must continue. I almost wrote "fully literate", but isn't it impossible to be fully literate in Japanese because of rare kanji? Although I suppose any kanji considered archaic wouldn't be considered part of modern Japanese. Is it not a problem that the native Japanese public cannot be expected to write or even read most of the kanji that exist, even though they use some of the words in the spoken language? The challenge of kanji isn't only a problem for communicating with foreigners. It also diminishes the literacy of native Japanese. This is why Japan has made reforms to reduce the number of kanji in use so as to achieve better literacy among the public. It may also be argued that most kanji are so complex to remember and to write that they slow down communication even among those who use them. There are certainly much faster ways to write almost all Japanese words phonetically, although I admit that doing so will not retain specific ideographic meanings and require context to understand. But this is no more difficult than understanding a word in spoken Japanese. As the purpose of language is to communicate, ease of learning the language should be a priority, though not at the cost of accuracy and conciseness. In an increasingly international economy, there is great benefit to foreigners being able to achieve fluency in the language. The reluctance of foreigners to learn Japanese creates more work for the Japanese, because it means they have greater need to learn English and other foreign languages in order to communicate with non-Japanese. This reduces profitable international cooperation. The problem you describe of the Chinese language lacking a phonetic system is like the circumstance in which kana arose, specifically man'yōgana. A system inspired by man'yōgana could be a Chinese way to write phonetically using only indigenous characters.
@@Paelorian "But doesn't the spoken language prove that it is not a problem" - NO. You can understand some spoken words through context - but try to write any serious text without kanji - and it turns into one indistinguishable sea of hiragana and katakana - you would need huge amount of time to comprehend (if you would be able to comprehend at all). I would personally say that no one in Japan would now want to abolish kanji considering all the problems it would cause them, and the sheer amount of cultural loss: with kanji been in usage for more than a thousand of years, abolishing them will for all intents and purposes make it for the most part unintelligible for future generations. Japanese themselves would definitely say NO, and I personally would absolutely say NO too. Whatever the particular shape of hangul may be - it represents only sound - how they use it to meaningfully write down historic Chinese names or words that have been traditionally written with kanji is BEYOND me, and would probably be beyond the absolute majority of Japanese (who from what i have read and heard are actually quite proud that unlike Koreans they have kept THEIR cultural heritage - kanji - and now can use all their culture efficiently and effectively (yes, kanji IS Japanese culture): when you write 孔子 - everyone understands what it means, but write it as こうし - and depending on circumstances you would need to add a ton of additional explanatory text to explain what kind of KOUSHI you mean here. Yes, kanji are difficult to learn - but SO what? With hard work, determination and accustoming to culture nothing is possible (for Japanese themselves, and for foreigners alike). Would Japanese want to get rid of THEIR culture (yes, THEIR culture!) just to make it more easier for some weebs to learn Japanese? - no, no, no.
@@EvgenyUskov Oh, I do think that you're right. The loss of cultural continuity would be too great to accept. There would be a rift between generations if kanji was no longer widely understood. For good reason, such a radical reform of the language has never been popular in Japan, even though movements have existed. Most languages reformers face resistance, because people want to continue their traditions and continue to understand the past. So much history and culture is embedded in kanji, it would be a major sacrifice to lose it. But old texts will not remain easy to read forever. It's the nature of languages to change over time. And sometimes the nations decide to give their language a push. It's not just Korea. The Chinese themselves extensively simplified their characters. Even the Japanese have changed their kanji with the shinjitai. Future generations will inevitably have some difficulty understanding archaic characters in older texts. But I do agree that abandoning kanji would be extremely disruptive. A revolutionary act. And while I am much less invested in kanji than you are, I am inclined to support the maintenance of the tradition. I recognize that it does have value, despite some drawbacks. That said, wouldn't spaces between words go a long way to making sense of kana without kanji? Spaces would display alright with printed text, though they would be especially disruptive or non-functional with vertically written Japanese. Perhaps a few new punctuation symbols would help distinguish between words, and maybe even some diacritics. Even if kana are not sufficient to communicate Japanese, it is certainly possible for Japanese to be accurately recorded in writing in a simpler way than kanji. A writing system could be devised for Japanese, unlike the existing Japanese writing system which was adapted to the language. Although the elimination of kanji may require people to write as they speak, which could be the death of exclusively literary styles of Japanese, those which may not make complete sense when spoken aloud. This is a major reason to keep kanji. Of course kanji mastery is possible, and accomplished students like you prove it. But most Japanese speakers never achieve kanji mastery. This is a major reason why all countries using Chinese characters have adapted and simplified them over time for convenience. I think it would be better to not deliberately radically alter Japanese to be easier to learn. Instead of changing Japanese, international communication could be improved by promoting an auxillary language for international communication, like Esperanto tried to be and like English _de facto_ is today. But Esperanto and English are flawed in this role. Esperanto can certainly be improved on with the last century of linguistic knowledge, and English is very complex and irregular. English is really too difficult to acquire fluency in for this role. The Japanese invest a great deal of time in learning it, but with mixed results. As a native speaker of high ability I understand English intuitively, but I recognize how difficult a language it is to master. Many native English speakers are barely fluent or literate! I also understand the resistance to reforming the English language. I've invested so much effort in mastering it, and so have many millions of others! But I do think I would like to make some changes that would make the English language easier to read, write, learn, and master. I might never benefit from such changes, having mastered contemporary English, but future generations would benefit. Perhaps someday the world will settle on an impressive and easy to learn constructed language as a lingua franca for international communication. I would be happy to learn it to communicate with the world, rather than ask them to learn my language or face the impossible task of learning many of their languages. With widespread multilingualism, we always face the risk of the introduced languages influencing, displacing, and replacing other languages. This can alter and in some cases damage culture. But that's just how living languages are. I think the most important priority for language is that humans can communicate. Preserving culture is important, but intelligibility ultimately benefits culture. Culture benefits when it can be understood and shared. I don't expect the Japanese to change for the likes of me, nor do I want them to. If I want to communicate with the Japanese, I will learn _their_ language as they use it. I would learn kanji. Ideas about changing the language of Japanese are a purely theoretical academic exercise, especially from foreigners like myself.
I just got back from a vacation in Japan and realized my exact Japanese level when sitting next to a family at a café and not being able to understand overhearing the parents when they spoke to each other but understanding them perfectly when they addressed their 3 year old child
Amazing hahaha
Same. My English😉🌟
@@ReiRei726 keep at it! You’re doing great!
I understand you, I can watch kids cartoons in Japanese without problem but when I try a more complicated one I'm totally lost lol.
My level is improving really fast and all by myself, now I should try writing something lol.
@@miss2971 it sounds like an interesting method, which ones would you recommend me to try it? :D
The final form of Japanese learning: being the guy that says ”日本語すごく上手ですね”
Reminds me of a friend, who when we first met he called me "young man" and then said "Woah, I'm starting to call people 'young man' now..."
@@OrangeC7 Woahh
404 likes really fits the uno reverse card effect of this comment
Just say it to obviously japanese people. You will be loved. :p
Or "英語上手ですね" hahaha.
"Your japanese is so good"
"Thanks yours too"
Omg I wonder how they'd react. I must know, for science! But that would actually be rude. 🤣
@@toasterhed Nah depending on how you put it that might be funny
Sounds good.
I don't get why so many people feel the need to somehow "strike back" or "get the last word" as if they've somehow been "wronged". It's very bizarre since getting jouzu'd isn't a bad thing and in fact, it's quite helpful.
@@Archedgar i don't know if it's helpful or not but for sure they don't mean anything bad at all, viceversa. Most of the people that feel offended or anything by that just don't understand japanese culture and/or mentality i'd say.
@@theramendutchman My favourite instance of being 上手ed was at a bar when I was chatting with the Japanese bar tender. Another customer pipes in 日本語が上手ですね and the bar tender immediately responds ありがとう.
"Your japanese is so good"
**denies**
**replies immediately with his whole life's story**
*Just like in the JRPG simulations*
I’m death lol
@@maikrabbe7155 hi death
@@maikrabbe7155 Please don't kill me.
NPC be like:
Funny, I'm still on stage 0
Wow you're so far ahead me, I'm stuck at stage -50
Same.
Watch his free Patreon videos to get up to level .001
Baby steps 👍
I'm at 0.5. I understand enough to understand that I, essentially, don't understand anything at all and all I see is a mountain of language in front of me.
Go make more scary stories
Maybe the real 日本語上手 was the friends we made along the way
Faxxxxxxxx 🤧😂
No stop liking my low hanging fruit comment you sincerely weird people
@@honoi9508 Japan's got a lot of those
@@themeepiestmorp2685 ruclips.net/video/BW1aX0IbZOE/видео.html
@@themeepiestmorp2685 I love being weird
Your roasting humor is on point
Nice to see you here.
blueAwoo! didnt know you watch Dogen
Eyyyy funny seeing you here lol
Wait wot :o truly Hololive is everywhere
@@potatohunter3502 Been like that for months pal ;)
The "soon to be depressed ALT" burned me so utterly and completely I didn't even feel any pain, just the sensation of my soul leaving my body
What is ALT
@@CodemanS1 assistant language teacher
basically native english speakers teaching english in japan
Don't worry, you just never answer the door unless you're expecting someone or a package/pizza and youre all set
I found going with the expectation of none of it being like I thought it would be, quite helpful. I left after a year.
Should I not apply to the jet Program
"I think my Japanese is pretty good. Everyone is telling me that my Japanese is jouzu, which means good!"
"Dude, it's time for you to know."
"What? Everyone is telling me that!"
"Yesterday I saw a Japanese telling his dog that its Japanese was jouzu."
You'll know it's real when they have a sort of amazed expression. I got that with chopsticks; my chopsticks game is probably the top .1% of foreigners, able to pick up single grains of rice in rapid succession, and I know all the moves, including that yes, straight up stabbing is actually OK from time to time. So I took the 上手 because goddamnit, I'd earned it.
@@dogchaser520 Your comment reads like a copypasta
@@dogchaser520 imagine typing a cluster of clauses that derails "nihongo jouzu" almost entirely to boast about how you're better than 99.9% of us at using chopsticks
@@AdamOwenBrowning Imagine not understanding irony on the internet. I'm pretty good with chopsticks, though not amazing. Enough that some people were genuinely impressed when I lived in Japan. It's not exactly important. Though for whatever reason, it does say a lot about you, culturally, in Japan. If you can't use chopsticks competently you're thought of as being childish and slow, a bit like someone who puts a fork in their fist and shovels food into their mouth in Western countries.
Also, looks like Dogen deleted my response to the comment about it seeming like copypasta because it had profanity. Hey, I don't make the rules for the copypasta. I just tried to fit chopsticks into it. Thought it was pretty funny, but hey, everyone's a critic.
@@dogchaser520... Remembering slowly how much I suck at proper eating when we barely use a fork properly in Slavic countries and I'm even worse than most of them...
I can't wait to ascend to Dunning-Kruger status. Maybe I'll develop a sense of self-confidence.
oh no i felt this so deep in my soul TnT
HA!
It sounded so normal to me and that's the problem 😭😭
In actuality the tests around the Dunning Kruger effect where unable to be replicated so by that knowledge I'd conclude that it's closer to a hypothesis than a theory, in the peer review paperwork it shows a clear misunderstanding of mathematics which isn't such a good sign. Peer review doesn't mean what you think it means.
The amount of people who underestimate/ overestimate their abilities/skills isn't as drastic as most claim it too be.
@@xXJ4FARGAMERXx x2 ;n;
Self-assesed N3: "Iie, nihongo tabemasen dattebayo."
🤣
I joined an anime interest group (for about 2 weeks before I left)
This sums up how they spoke.
No, in normal Dutch conversation.
This is the official 上手 reply to the NHK man's appearance
Sadly most of those guys could not even pass N5.
...you're eating Japanese? But why?
You forgot "Guy who studied Japanese ages ago but forgot most of it and now people expect him to sound like Commodore Perry", that's where I'm at.
That was me when I met this one Japanese guy in my school. He insisted to carry the convo in Japanese with me, “dude, it’s been a few years since I last touch Japanese” I said, he ignored my explanation lol
Same. I used to study Japanese and then I went to a foreign country and when I came back everyone wants to speak with me and I had to explain that it had been 2 years since I'd said anything in Japanese to anyone.
Soon will be 1 year that I came back from Japan and haven’t talked properly in Japanese. Life is so unfair. I spent my many years to learn Japanese, then lived there 3.5 years while studing and working and got N1 level but only several months were enough to start to slowly forget it…
oop that's also me! Cannot even remember how to tell people I've forgotten most of what I know :/
@@fidybeanbird relearning a language should be easier. anyway, my best suggestion would be to watch or listen to a lot of japanese content. gotta use the language as much as you can.
My stage is: Too good at Japanese to give it up, but nearly despairing at the amount I need to learn just to read whatever I like.
same, and it's really frustrating me. I've put Japanese on hold because I got a thesis to write and I feel so bad about it knowing I'm forgetting stuff while at the same time I don't feel like getting back to Japanese because I'm so demotivated ;;
Saaaaaaaaaaaame
Same
I feel you...
Man, I relate. I'm too far into the game to quit and I can read manga in Japanese but it takes like 30-60 minutes and even still I don't always understand what I need to understand to enjoy it, you know? But just keep going, and try reading and listening to shows without english translations or subtitles, and eventually your brain will pick it up. That's my philosophy anyway. If you really make it feel as if its a need, by only watching anime and J dramas without eng subs and only reading manga and whatever else without english translations, you tend to pick up a lot more about the language because your brain deems it as relevant and stores it for later use.
The number of times I've had that exact Full Circle conversation. I tried telling people 死ぬまで「まだまだ」です but I don't think anyone could appreciate the dark humor.
Oh man, I just might steal that XD
Can somebody explain this, I dont understand it
@@elio4444 Translator says 死ぬまで「まだまだ」です means "'Not yet' until death".
@@Mr_Yeah ah thank you :)
@@elio4444 You're welcome.
「そこらへんの留学生と一緒にしないでください」の字幕が “I can order by myself at Mosburger” に笑
そこらの留学生と一緒にしないで(wenomechainsama)
Oh, thank goodness, you said that, because I kept replaying it trying to listen for the English word “Mosburger” and I couldn’t hear it anywhere 😂
First time I went to Japan and I literally only knew "arigatogosaimasu" and "Konnichiwa" (With a very, very, very heavy Dutch accent) and I still got the same compliment..
mada mada desu ne
@@hastley64 you mean um.. mada.. mada.. desu. no ne? is that right?
From what I've been told, they just say that because they want to make small talk, but there's nothing else to say, so they default to that empty compliment.
Too polite for their own good.
But we know why they are scared of Americans.
But some people don't even know "arigatogosaimasu". I really don't think it's meant to be an insult or patronising if they give that compliment.
Imagine going to a McDonald's, and while youre counting your change the cashier said "wow, you're so good at numbers!" That's how it feels getting nihingojouzudesune'ed. EVERY. TIME.
"nihingojouzudesune'ed" lmao
Nihongojouzudesune'ed needs to become an official word.
It is a whole ass mood that's for sure
What a nice joke. 草
I get yourenglishisreallygood'ed a lot.
I like it when I come across a Dogen video, and it reminds me mercilessly that my 日本語 is still くそ
I know just enough to know im shit too. Its depressing.
@@j.e.wattes8991 I'm in the same boat, but on the other hand we're way further along than 90% of people that start learning Japanese will ever be
@@wminerva252 which only means that we are too far in to turn back xD
Sorry to say まじレス(answer too seriously)
ごみ(trash)is more natural.
@@coconutpineapple2489 真面目学生！（Sorry, that was on one of my flash cards.）
I used to say ゴミバカ instead of ゴミ箱, and once said that to a happy guy who was holding out a garbage bag at the end of a festival. It still makes me laugh. I hope he just thought I was a confused foreigner.
I've heard 上手 so many times now that I'm not really sure if I ever going to become it.
Please tell me it literally means upper hand
@@Tsukaiyo that is the literal meaning, yes
@@rachelcookie321 oh, it's phonetically Jozu, so "good". I was hoping it was another case of けっこう where it's "I'm fine" literally AND figuratively
@@Tsukaiyo ah so you were hoping phonetically it was “upper hand” as well? Sadly it just’s “good at”.
@@Tsukaiyo there’s also 下手, which means “bad at”
"にほんごじょうずですね。"
”あの、にほんじんですけど。”
I get this so much
一周して原点に戻るのマジで共感しかない
My Japanese boyfriend is volunteering in Malawi right now, he ran into 2 japanese customers which he served. He overheard them speaking in Japanese, so he responded to them in Japanese naturally. To which they then proceeded to continue in English and then said “日本語上手ですね“
YOU CANT WIN EVEN IF YOURE JAPANESE
I'M DEAD HAHAHA
SCREAMING BAHAHA
They probably thought he was Asian-American or something.
I felt so called out with number 3!!! I was exactly like this with sweet 15 years lol.
And when you said 訓練 (training), I was like "heh, I know this word from Attack on Ti-... oh."
影分身の術！
@@High_Priest_Jonko
斬月！
Lmao for reaaaal 😂😂 I'm currently N5 and idk how to say "Please help, I'm lost" but somehow know "The blades won't pierce through..." and "Are we doing this?! Right here?! Right now?!" 😂
Dogen is so good at pitching that he tries so hard to get out of the pitch but still sound natural.
Sounds like fake foreigners in anime with perfect pitch accent.
Not trying to discredit him but still you gotta keep in mind that he re-records his scripted skit it over and over until it sounds good (or bad) enough. Like, sure, he means business but most of the time we don't hear him speaking impromptu...
I don't know, I think the unnatural parts definitely sounded off (as they were meant to).
@@八咫烏-u1y I think the point of the original comment was that even when Dogen tries to make his Japanese sound bad by messing up pitch, it still just sounds like a native Japanese faking it because pitch and pronunciation is fully built into him. The fact that Dogen can re-record the script gives even more credibility to his Japanese ability since supposedly he can't fully mess up his accent even after several takes.
@@八咫烏-u1y You should see him on other youtubers' videos like when he got 1st place in The Anime Man's Japanese quiz, scoring 10/10. His mannerism and speech (in English) is the same in his videos.
#3 call out is REAL.
HAHAHA IKR
"my favorite music is radwimps" i died 💀💀
This was too real...not sure if I should love or hate this video haha XD
To the point that I was a RADWIMPS fan since way before Your Name came out >_<
But seriously, having lived in Japan and knowing many others who did or do, this was so recognisable; I laughed non-stop X'D
@@7Lee7 your name* lol
@@3all714 thx edited it. No idea why I wrote My lol
NHK staff: Do you have a TV?
If you answered YES: You have to pay for it.
If you answered NO: A 30 minutes conversation will start and you’ll end up paying.
Still a better outcome than a few years ago in Sweden when people would come to your apartment and try to look past you, into your apartment, to see if you were secretly hiding a TV or not. Thankfully they opted to put that on the general taxes instead of sending these goons to constantly harass people to pay. I understand the usefulness of having a non-state sponsored TV channel stuff that anyone can watch that can openly criticize the government and stuff but that shit was intolerable how they'd hound you.
So I imagine it's like that.
@@Zeithri it's just a waste of government money to give these people a job.
at least it's cheaper than in Germany. According to the wikipedia page of the NHK the maximum you would pay is the equivalent of 190€, if you have satellite. For non sat tv it's 109€, in Okinawa it's 96 for non sat and 177 for sat. and you can get 4€ off with a standing order In Germany you just pay 210€, no discounts and no opting out because you don't have a tv. Unless you are getting unemployment benefits, get student funding, are deaf and blind (at the same time), or have dementia or autism you'll have to pay this TV/Radio or not
'No'. Close door.
or you can just close the door, it's literally PUA/salesman tactics, making you think you have to give them the time of day while you actually dont owe them shit
ぎこちない初心者の日本語がすごい上手
鬱になる寸前のALTでめちゃくちゃ笑いました
私の苦しみが笑われたんだ
両方の状況と気持ちがよく分かります。(主人はALTで自分は担当でした....。)
"LikE training and colossal titan" lmao
I don't even know what level I'm in anymore. Is forgetting-vocabulary-and-grammar-midsentence level a thing?
This is me
I'm there too, so yeah XD
That's every level
Every level, as other guy said. That's literally language learning. The best defense against this is to just steamroll ahead and say something incorrect. That's what successful learners do. If you beat yourself up about it, you literally will never learn a language.
🙋♀️ same. Especially when people ask you to say something in Japanese.
The mention of Saizeria had me hacking up my lunges
The Nervous Novice doesn’t even begin to describe my lack of confidence.
「日本語がすごく上手です！」
「ん。」scurries away before i need to say anything else
Like that?
@@theramendutchman Spot on
@@theramendutchman no. More like
Person:「日本語が上手です！」
Me: 「あははは、そうですか」* I ask in a playful, disbelieving tone, and then proceed to berate myself mentally on why I couldn’t respond better and JUST TALK DANG IT T_T *
@@dont_harsh_my_mellow > あははは
I feel so bad to have read this as "awawawa" and then realizing it's "ahahaha". I think katakana would be a better choice in this case.
@@default632 yeah I considered it when I first posted it. You’ll see it says it was edited. But I decided I wanted to leave it in as I felt it captured my conflict. 😭
lmao, heard 訓練 and knew exactly where it was going, because that's totally where I learned it from lmao
Where is it from? 🤔
@Jordan Rodrigues Yeah. Now I know valuable vocab such as キング・クリムゾン！！
@@ChillyCheeseFryz cool, thank you! At least 訓練 i learnt all by myself (🤣) even without being into anime and manga😅
@Jordan Rodrigues 聖域
@@tomaskopecky9348 聖感
I wholeheartedly await the day I go to Japan and a Japanese person converses with me in English...
So I can give em an *英語上手!*
@@woooshbait9696 大日本帝國
英語すごく上手ですね
@@martincarapiaa eto, no thank you?
@@williamadiputra2850 LMAO idk why this is so funny
went through all the stages with a couple other languages (sadly not Japanese), was genuinely expecting the last stage to be ‘thank you, that’s so nice’
It never is tho ;;;;
What's wrong with saying ''thank you, I appreciate that''? There is clearly no offence intended and not implying that you are a beginner, people need to stop being so thin-skinned.
@@holliswilliams8426 AFAIK it's not "wrong" it just doesn't abide to japanese levels of politeness. It's more natural to deny a compliment than to take a compliment, because most people living there do that.
Responding in an unexpected way will probably make it harder for them to respond, so instead of saying "Ah thanks" it's better to answer in a way they would.
すげぇw「超すっげぇ」とか使い方が完璧すぎる！尊敬します！
The best way to confirm that you’re truly 上手 - you can understand dogen’s videos without subtitles
I love how the subtitles for (あそこらへんの留学生と違います、)一緒にしないでください 2:02 is “I can order by myself at Mosburger”😂😂😂😂
Every single stage, you will get nihongo-jouzed
ドウゲンのビデオは最高だと思って、いつも勉強になるし、面白いからです！
I came full circle recently with all 3 languages I speak (English + two mother tongues). I was born in the states and spent a decade studying in India. Now I question every sentence I speak-all of it sounds, to me, either surreal or unreal when I hear myself speak.
Same never used to question myself til now
Yup, same here. I find it harder and harder to find the right word for whatever I'm trying to say. The Swedish equivalent is not as powerful as the English, the Icelandic is kind of not really the same thing but still has a better feel to it, and what I really want to use is the Japanese one but then no one will understand what that means and now I don't remember what I was saying in the first place.
Well, I can say the same about my mothertongue... I thought I was proficient in high school, then started doubting myself in university getting a degree in journalism. Now I work as a proofreader ALWAYS checking dictionaries
This thread is very relatable, even though I'm just bilingual. I keep forgetting words in English or my native language.
The curse of every foreign language student. "I can speak four languages, but only at the same time."
3:10の、つまり、のはさみ方がすごく英語っぽくて好き
Is it wrong that I understood everything Dunning Kruger-san said? *goes to work on pronunciation*
I listened to it and couldn't tell where he had switched the pitch accents 😭
I noticed his pitch accent was way off; lots of 頭高 pronuntiations. Though I'd probably suck just as much, or at most my pronuntiation would be so mediocre it wouldn't even be that amusing for the natives.
yeah but you understood everything! so tbh why care about pitch accent after all? If your goal is to sound like a native then sure go on, but if you just want to communicate then just learn the words - Japanese is one of the easiest languages in regards to pronounciation I've ever studied
演技上手いし、めっちゃ面白い
I'll never live down my first 上手 exchange (3 months into self-study, first time in Japan, completely overwhelmed):
「日本語上手ですね！」
「え－と、上手って何ですか。」
Pffffft oh man lol
😂😂🍪
I never make fun of someone's non-American accent. Anyone from another culture that learns English can speak it however they like.
yeah I wish other places were as chill as us with that stuff
Since you're watching Dogen I'm sure you're well aware of this, but the issue with Japanese is that pitch accent denotes meaning in a bunch of words due to the humongous amount of homophones there are in Japanese. It does so in English as well, but not to the level that Japanese takes it.
@@m8onethousand I don't agree. Yes Japanese has more homophones than English, no question, but stress in English is far more important and more prominent than pitch accent in Japanese. Furthermore, even within Japan itself there is variation in pitch accent. Not all natives speak with the same pitch, and some young Japanese people even speak without any particular pitch accent at all.
I'm always impressed whenever someone who isn't native to english can express their thoughts naturally in english even if it comes out really harsh. I think that is really "knowing a language" and everything else is proficiency. Plus there are people native to my country who can't speak our language so.... yeah its good.
*"I have to pay it, despite the fact I don't have a TV"*
_OOF,_ guess that's NHK in a nutshell lol
Looks like this is Dogen's calling for help, who uses stamps, paper, and fax machine in 2021? Oh right Japan xD
That ending, Dogen is roasting himself again? 😂
Please go to Germany if you have time. "What I have to pay just because I have an apartment?", "What those crazy rich family living in the same mansion have to pay the same as this single parent with 4 kids?"
Just like you pay for roads, schools and health care you don't use.
@@StevenBara When I moved to Germany (without knowing that much German) the ARD ZDF was the first letter I got in the mail. Because I didn’t ask for any such service and nobody told me what that was. I thought it was some kind of scam and I threw the things directly into the trash for months. I ended up with a Bill of over 400€ before someone told me that it’s obligatory to pay for it, even tho I never signed up for anything and no one even explained what it was ( back then I had an ausbildungsvertrag and I got like 280€ a month, so it was hard to pay it off). Technically it should be illegal, since you didn’t sign up for anything, and there is literally no way to opt out (as a normal person). My German teacher kept getting them in the mail for years after he move out from Germany to another country. Even after he send them the papers to prove he didn’t live in Germany anymore they started sending them to his house abroad. Crazy.
@@Dunika yeah they are well known for harassing families by sending payment notices to deceased family members. It got a bit better now that every household has to pay without exception (almost). I'm sure that will be the same in Japan sooner or later.
@@ThreadBomb actually it's a bit different isn't it ;) you use roads passively by getting goods via transportation.
たどたどしい日本語がリアルすぎる件について
As someone who’s learning Japanese for my foreign language class online it pains me to say that is exactly what I said to our sensei (doubtful note-checking and self-correction included) stage 1 is where it’s at
I come back to this video every few months to see what level of Japanese I'm at now
授業切ってサイゼリア行こうぜwwwww
めっちゃ面白いですwwwww
The ryuugakusei one grabbed me by the hair and dragged me around the floor, oof
"study by myself"
Ah yes, studying, uh, traditional Japanese art, culture, and music....right?
Are there more people who do that? I like traditional culture a lot as well as non otaku stuff, but everyone assumes that a learner of Japanese is a weeb
Now I'm even more motivated to getting prononciation right so i don't sound like i need to get "nihongo jōzu'd" right off the bat. Thanks Dogen
I’m almost at Dunning Kreuger, just need to actually speak a little bit … with people. Instead of to myself.
Dunning Kreuger means to be stupid but think you're smart. So er... I don't think you want to be that.
@@Tehmora I’m actually probably at the Dunning Kreuger dip within the range of novice to Dōgen’s Dunning Krueger reference. A meta-Krueger.
By that I mean I’m aware my Japanese isn’t very good, I just don’t have a frame of reference to how not good it is. Because I don’t talk to people in Japanese.
@@DoctorLazertron if you think your japanese isn't good than you're not affected by Dunning Krueger, unless you're actually very good at it (reverse Dunning Krueger)
@@andreafantin9567 I know what the effect is, I just can’t spell it apparently. I was being sort of facetious. My Japanese isn’t good but just okay enough to cover some songs with an accent.
僕は自分自身と話すことについての部分に関係することができます。（笑）
I think he sounded pretty good for only 10 years of study
Nailed it. I've been through most of these except the ALT. :)
your videos make me both afraid of japanese and excited to learn
完璧なひとり舞台。面白すぎる。
Dogen, you hit it out of the park with this! Even if I've seen this 8 months later, I'm glad to see you making videos like this again. I've missed your sense of humor!
Man you're actually a legitimate content creator. Love your work, it's honestly on a whole different level.
Oooh, I loved the bonus easter egg at the end!! 日本語が凄く上手ですね！
Mine would have been the "Over enthusiastic Weeb" where the response would have been "本当に？わあ！嬉しいですね。どうもありがとうございました！”
As a Hafu Japanese who speaks japanese, my go-to response is:
ありがとうございます！あなたも上手上手！
え？日本人だから当たり前？ですよね、僕もそうだから
I'm definitely a foreigner, but I'm gonna try the first part anyway just to see their reaction.
I guess I exceeded Dunning Kreuger guy when I learned 鍛練 from HxH and then proceeded to go through a phase where I'd try to say it in every conversation to sound "smart" 🤦♂️
I learned from my teachers that the correct way to answer this question is:
それほどでも。
I once tried it and people (pre)tend to get even more impressed by my Japanese.
I just ignore them xD ... i am like は～！... then i just change the subject ...
でも means "not yet" ?
@@High_Priest_Jonko it can mean “even” as a particle. In this case something like “Even to that extent”
@@noir371 Ahh. I definitely know でも as "even" I just didn't think of it that way. Thanks for the reply
Stage 3 listing hobbies and facts about himself unprovoked is too real
Student: "Sensei, how long should I practise until I can finally say I'm good at Japanese?"
Sensei: "Until you don't get "Nihongo jozu desune" anymore"
I miss the 8bit song intro but that's my only complaint. The videos are great,
currently at let’s hit saizeriya fam stage
Oh, Dogen, you crack me up so much. I wish my 日本語 could ever be as 上手 as yours :P
Yeah this is accurate
@@downsouth777 yes and i watched it all before commenting!!!
"I have to pay for it even though I don't have a TV?" As a German, it hurts because it's true
Number 3 was a perfect summary of everything I learnt last year, I didn’t have to even read the subtitles 😂
I really enjoyed that. You make me laugh and sometimes that’s all we need in life
Can;t wait Dogen on Trash Taste really. Hope they collab soon, because Dogen jokes is top tier.
I'm waiting for this too. He was recently on joeys channel with Chris broad, so that's like half of trash taste
すげえ！この方、発音カタコトsの字幕、発音おかしいところだけ大文字にしてる〜！😮😮
こういう文字遊び大好き〜！
スラングさんの日本語ヤバすぎてわろたww
Probably the best Dogen video!?
I'm starting to wonder if these are all phases Dogen went through.
The existential dread of not noticing any mistakes in stage 2
I'm number 2 for sure. By being a native spanish speaker I have the pronunciation kinda nailed down at this point, but inside my head I feel like I can say a lot even though I probably couldn't say "I´m watching a dogen video" in Japanese.
4のスラングさんが、学生同士の会話としては一番自然だと思う。フォーマルな場で4さん話せるのかはわからないが。
このチャンネルのコメント欄、英語の人がほとんどであることにいつもびっくりする。英語の字幕で主に理解しているのだろうか？ それとも流暢な日本語音声のほうで主に理解しているのだろうか？
聞き取れる外国人もいるけど、初心者の方が多いかもしれない（途中でやめる人が殆ど）
When you don't get Nihongo jouzu'd at all,
That is when you can consider your japanese to be good enough.
I needed this omg
Oh gosh. Three got me so accurately to the point in which it even got my name right. Dogen once again reads the minds of his viewers
I met a native Japanese who Nihongo Jouzu'd me after only a few months of study. I gave her a look like "girl, I know you fucking lying". She avoided eye contact. The jouzu truly has endless comedy potential.
The bit about the TV felt super relatable, as it's the same in my country.
Stage 10: After 10 years in Japan and often mistaken for a native on the phone, you get sick of being humble and realize it won't make you more Japanese, so you just say ありがとうございます＾＾うれしいです(*ﾉωﾉ)
You are so right about it.
It's so true
めちゃくちゃ面白かった♪特に３と６の終わり方!!!
The "colossus titan" got me crying 😂
after learning Japanese for nearly two years and still being in stage one, i'm going to have to take your word on what the other stages are like.
I've been learning Japanese for 4 years and I'm still on stage 1
Same. I can read and write in japanese using all n5 and most n4 kanji with some help from apps. But if you want me to speak with someone id rather run away screaming from terror. Sudenly I forgot all those fance particles, formal constuctions, no ne sa da and etc sentence enders, difference between tara and kara and so on. I degrade to a level of most basic japanese because that all I remember perfectly.
Which is funny because I dont have same problem with english. I successfully forgot 90% of english grammar, 7 out of 12 verbs times, their 2 and 3rd forms. And yet I can still talk and write in english with enough confidence to ignore all mistakes I make.
I just say ［それよく言われます！］
and leave it there.
STAGE 99: spent many many years on preparation, and FINALLY passed Kanji Kentei level 1 (actually, that's me)
I recognized your name! Four times as many people have walked on the moon as have non-native kanji students reached the top rank of kanji mastery as you have. People in these comment sections should be fawning over you! That you are only the third person to not study kanji from childhood and still reach the highest level really demonstrations the complexity of the Japanese writing system. And Level 1 is only about triple the 2136 official joyo kanji!
I felt less intimidated about amount of memorization involved in learning Japanese when I learned that most Japanese speakers seem to be fine with command of the joyo kanji or less, as far as I can tell, and reading ability is more important to communication than writing ability. But even a lifetime of learning doesn't take one to kanji mastery unless a special effort is made over many years to become a kanji master.
I'm sorry, I feel like I'm wasting the time of someone unique and important with my ignorant musings. Please tell me, what is your opinion on writing reform of the Japanese language? I know Korea eliminated the use of Chinese characters in their language, vastly simplifying their writing system. There exist alternative scripts for Japanese, including the hiragana syllabary (which could be used exclusively in place of kanji), romanization (Hepburn or Kunrei-shiki), and several effective methods of Japanese shorthand. One modern shorthand writing system, EPSEMS, is even designed to be used to write both Japanese and English.
The complexity of Japanese, especially the written language, does discourage myself and others from pursuing it. I am not motivated to make the time investment to learn to write Japanese properly. I wouldn't use it often enough to justify the hours of study. I'm interested in learning Japanese, but not enough to devote years of my life to it. So I probably won't, unless I gain a new reason or opportunity to learn the language that increases my motivation to do so.
@@Paelorian i would say that for any language where a substantial part of its vocabulary is based on Chinese loanwords getting rid of kanji would cause a huge amount of mess... mess... mess... probably similar to the one that would have happened to Chinese if they abandoned their "kanji": go to any dictionary, and count how many "words" are there with reading like "こうこう" or "そうそう"... then go on to think what would happen if you didn't have kanji to logographically differentiate between different meanings. madness. pure madness. but what i personally find equally inexplicable is why chinese would not come up with some sort of "hiragana" / "katakana" of their own to write down loanwords or foreign names - because right not it looks like a mess of its own kind (i am not a big chinese language buff so i may be mistaken). many accuse japanese of being too complicated but from my viewpoint it is quite logical and rational giving the circumstances of historical development of japanese language - yes, it may not be easy to learn for foreigners but in itself it not more difficult for native speakers than, for example, russian is for russian native speakers
@@EvgenyUskov So the value of kanji is distinguishing homophones? But doesn't the spoken language prove that it is not a problem, since spoken Japanese is understood fine through context? The use of different characters to distinguish homophones in Chinese is very imperfect solution that creates further problems through differentiating the written language from the spoken language it should represent, as demonstrated by the poem _Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den_ (施氏食獅史, _Shī-shì shí shī shǐ_ ). Wouldn't writing that only captures the sound of Japanese still be easy to understand for Japanese speakers?
Korea used a mixed phonetic-logographic (Hangul and Hanja) system similar to Japanese. In just the last fifty years or so, both North and South Korea have gone fully phonetic and ceased the common use of Chinese characters. It seems to have worked well for them. Hangul are quite different from kana, but both are written in syllable blocks. There is always some "messiness" in language reform, but it is sometimes justified.
The objection I hear most often to reliance on kana is not actually that it makes communication more difficult. It's merely that the absence of kanji "looks like a child's writing". Isn't that just elitism? The more kanji you use, the more literate you are. Mass comprehension is sacrificed in order to display education, indicating class status. While I understand that this was historically important to Japanese culture, I don't think separating educated classes from the uneducated through the use of a wider variety of kanji is as important as being understood. I most value accuracy, then ease of comprehension, then ease of expression, then conciseness.
While people manage to achieve fluency in their native language everywhere in the world, Japanese do need to make more effort than most to achieve literacy and especially written fluency. They do continue studying kanji at least through high school, and to become more literate must continue. I almost wrote "fully literate", but isn't it impossible to be fully literate in Japanese because of rare kanji? Although I suppose any kanji considered archaic wouldn't be considered part of modern Japanese.
Is it not a problem that the native Japanese public cannot be expected to write or even read most of the kanji that exist, even though they use some of the words in the spoken language? The challenge of kanji isn't only a problem for communicating with foreigners. It also diminishes the literacy of native Japanese. This is why Japan has made reforms to reduce the number of kanji in use so as to achieve better literacy among the public.
It may also be argued that most kanji are so complex to remember and to write that they slow down communication even among those who use them. There are certainly much faster ways to write almost all Japanese words phonetically, although I admit that doing so will not retain specific ideographic meanings and require context to understand. But this is no more difficult than understanding a word in spoken Japanese.
As the purpose of language is to communicate, ease of learning the language should be a priority, though not at the cost of accuracy and conciseness. In an increasingly international economy, there is great benefit to foreigners being able to achieve fluency in the language. The reluctance of foreigners to learn Japanese creates more work for the Japanese, because it means they have greater need to learn English and other foreign languages in order to communicate with non-Japanese. This reduces profitable international cooperation.
The problem you describe of the Chinese language lacking a phonetic system is like the circumstance in which kana arose, specifically man'yōgana. A system inspired by man'yōgana could be a Chinese way to write phonetically using only indigenous characters.
@@Paelorian "But doesn't the spoken language prove that it is not a problem" - NO. You can understand some spoken words through context - but try to write any serious text without kanji - and it turns into one indistinguishable sea of hiragana and katakana - you would need huge amount of time to comprehend (if you would be able to comprehend at all). I would personally say that no one in Japan would now want to abolish kanji considering all the problems it would cause them, and the sheer amount of cultural loss: with kanji been in usage for more than a thousand of years, abolishing them will for all intents and purposes make it for the most part unintelligible for future generations. Japanese themselves would definitely say NO, and I personally would absolutely say NO too. Whatever the particular shape of hangul may be - it represents only sound - how they use it to meaningfully write down historic Chinese names or words that have been traditionally written with kanji is BEYOND me, and would probably be beyond the absolute majority of Japanese (who from what i have read and heard are actually quite proud that unlike Koreans they have kept THEIR cultural heritage - kanji - and now can use all their culture efficiently and effectively (yes, kanji IS Japanese culture): when you write 孔子 - everyone understands what it means, but write it as こうし - and depending on circumstances you would need to add a ton of additional explanatory text to explain what kind of KOUSHI you mean here. Yes, kanji are difficult to learn - but SO what? With hard work, determination and accustoming to culture nothing is possible (for Japanese themselves, and for foreigners alike). Would Japanese want to get rid of THEIR culture (yes, THEIR culture!) just to make it more easier for some weebs to learn Japanese? - no, no, no.
@@EvgenyUskov Oh, I do think that you're right. The loss of cultural continuity would be too great to accept. There would be a rift between generations if kanji was no longer widely understood. For good reason, such a radical reform of the language has never been popular in Japan, even though movements have existed. Most languages reformers face resistance, because people want to continue their traditions and continue to understand the past. So much history and culture is embedded in kanji, it would be a major sacrifice to lose it.
But old texts will not remain easy to read forever. It's the nature of languages to change over time. And sometimes the nations decide to give their language a push. It's not just Korea. The Chinese themselves extensively simplified their characters. Even the Japanese have changed their kanji with the shinjitai. Future generations will inevitably have some difficulty understanding archaic characters in older texts.
But I do agree that abandoning kanji would be extremely disruptive. A revolutionary act. And while I am much less invested in kanji than you are, I am inclined to support the maintenance of the tradition. I recognize that it does have value, despite some drawbacks.
That said, wouldn't spaces between words go a long way to making sense of kana without kanji? Spaces would display alright with printed text, though they would be especially disruptive or non-functional with vertically written Japanese. Perhaps a few new punctuation symbols would help distinguish between words, and maybe even some diacritics.
Even if kana are not sufficient to communicate Japanese, it is certainly possible for Japanese to be accurately recorded in writing in a simpler way than kanji. A writing system could be devised for Japanese, unlike the existing Japanese writing system which was adapted to the language. Although the elimination of kanji may require people to write as they speak, which could be the death of exclusively literary styles of Japanese, those which may not make complete sense when spoken aloud. This is a major reason to keep kanji.
Of course kanji mastery is possible, and accomplished students like you prove it. But most Japanese speakers never achieve kanji mastery. This is a major reason why all countries using Chinese characters have adapted and simplified them over time for convenience.
I think it would be better to not deliberately radically alter Japanese to be easier to learn. Instead of changing Japanese, international communication could be improved by promoting an auxillary language for international communication, like Esperanto tried to be and like English _de facto_ is today.
But Esperanto and English are flawed in this role. Esperanto can certainly be improved on with the last century of linguistic knowledge, and English is very complex and irregular. English is really too difficult to acquire fluency in for this role. The Japanese invest a great deal of time in learning it, but with mixed results. As a native speaker of high ability I understand English intuitively, but I recognize how difficult a language it is to master. Many native English speakers are barely fluent or literate!
I also understand the resistance to reforming the English language. I've invested so much effort in mastering it, and so have many millions of others! But I do think I would like to make some changes that would make the English language easier to read, write, learn, and master. I might never benefit from such changes, having mastered contemporary English, but future generations would benefit.
Perhaps someday the world will settle on an impressive and easy to learn constructed language as a lingua franca for international communication. I would be happy to learn it to communicate with the world, rather than ask them to learn my language or face the impossible task of learning many of their languages. With widespread multilingualism, we always face the risk of the introduced languages influencing, displacing, and replacing other languages. This can alter and in some cases damage culture. But that's just how living languages are. I think the most important priority for language is that humans can communicate. Preserving culture is important, but intelligibility ultimately benefits culture. Culture benefits when it can be understood and shared.
I don't expect the Japanese to change for the likes of me, nor do I want them to. If I want to communicate with the Japanese, I will learn _their_ language as they use it. I would learn kanji. Ideas about changing the language of Japanese are a purely theoretical academic exercise, especially from foreigners like myself.
You are an international treasure.
I’m Japanese and I’m sure almost all of Japanese are stage 7.
Everyone in the younger generations, definitely. Nobody is more annoyed by the failures of Japanese culture to adapt than Japanese people.
"You don't, right? *RIGHT?* Glad we got that sorted." was so aggressive lmfaooo
Sometimes i just say arigatou, and then when they try to speak in english ill say “英語すごく上手ですね👏。”
I’m all about the UNO reverse card at this point
0:38 Even though I don't say my Japanese is good, but you got me here
I love that in every instance the Japanese native says the obligatory, "Your Japanese is amazing!"