Sneaky Student tries to Trick Frank with a False Dilemma (feat. @PineCreek)
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- A aggressive atheist student asks Frank Turek which would you choose if you were sick: a doctor or prayer? Frank thinks this is a false dilemma. Then Cody asks Frank if he would kill his family if God told him to, and further questions Frank about killing the Canaanites. What would you do? And isn’t God barbaric for ordering these things in the Old Testament?
PineCreek (Doug)
/ @pinecreekdoug
Sneaky student tries to trick Frank with a false dilemma
• Sneaky student tries t...
"Dr. Turek, would you kill your family?" Cody strikes again!
• "Dr. Turek, would you ...
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The long awaited collaboration of my two favorite middle-aged, Canadian, Mennonite-turned-atheist counter-apologists. Yes... it's a small category, but you guys are killing it.
hahaha...that is hilarious!!
This comment wins the internet 😂
I thought Paul was only 35!
@@abdallahayman9802 My sincere apologies to Paul and Doug if I was off the mark with that comment
@@snakeoilliniment8518 No I just thought I had his age wrong, nothing more. I don't think anyone got offended
I recently got diagnosed with cancer.
When people say they will pray, I say "no problem" or "no worries".
Been there. All my best, Dan.
May you have the strength to deal with it
Hope you pull through . Good luck youll be in my thoughts .
All the best to you, man, we're rooting for you.
Apologist casually defending murder. Just an ordinary tuesday.
And decrying subjectively-based morals as if “God’s changing whim” isn’t as subjective as it gets.
"Its time to die mortal, but its not murder when I do it, its just killing!"
"Uhhh..."
Frank is unable to answer the question, typical of apologists.
Frank: "Men don't really die, they just change location."
me: "Would you be willing to change the location of your wife for god?"
... what nonsense.
God having to work through doctors - is like a weight lifter working through a forklift.
More like a forklift having to work through a weight lifter.
@@kevindavis5966 More like a imaginary gravitationally contradictory heavy duty crane working through a imaginary forklift working through a weight lifter. 😁
If the weightlifter can do it, the crane gets the praise and if it's too heavy, the weightlifter will be blamed.
Realy... it's just fucked up.
It's fun to see frank dance around direct questions.
That’s his entire career
There's a debate with Hitchens where he really didn't get that chance...
@Trolltician hello fellow pinecreek fan
@Trolltician It was a thought experiment mister troll. Your question is an example of a dumb question.
To answer your dumb question hypothetically I'd say nutrition value.
@Trolltician You remind me of playing chess with a pidgeon. You've made no moves, take a shit on the chess board, and then fly off claiming victor. I thought maybe this person was actually making an argument. Nope, you're just a troll
Sad for you.
My apologies to Cody, he was supposed to come on the show, but we ran out of time.
If you don't get 10,000 pine points, make a formal complaint to the home office in Wichita.
I hear the Tropicana is really nice!
Considering how much theists despise the muscular structure of your cartoon character you should make it more and more muscular with each video just to piss them off
I still don't get why that bugs them. It is a cartoon avatar. It isn't supposed to look exactly like him. They might as well complain that he draws his head too big.
Super sayan
lol what? People are actually criticizing this?
@@deepforestfire Late but Kent Hovind has at the very least.
So. . . a Paulogia version of Power Girl's boobs?
Theists: Ask hypothetical questions to atheists.
Atheists: Breaks down the question and answers
Atheists: Ask hypothetical questions to theists.
Theists: "That is a stupid question!", "You're putting things out of context!", "I don't answer hypothetical questions."
It tells you a lot doesn't it? I've had conversations with theists on my channel where they would not answer hypothetical questions.
Kind of telling.
@anti-anti-intellectual x Or crazy - or both! :D IDK I don't like to paint with to broad a brush stroke. I've talked to some ... odd people in interviews. Been awhile though.
@anti-anti-intellectual x well, I mean. All we can do I guess is try to encourage logic & reason. :)
@anti-anti-intellectual x Some are like this, but having deconverted myself, I was not like that, but I had to be given the ideas of logic & reason, I had to be asked the questions. You never know who you might reach. :)
@anti-anti-intellectual x have you seen the comment on your discussion section of youtube? :D
"Are you saying God can do things that are illegal?" "I'm saying that when God does something, that means that IT IS NOT ILLEGAL!!"
So my morals are superior to God's then.
Why would Cody be surprised that genocide would get applause. Many of the audience probably accept Divine Command Theory
Its shocking that people buy into this nonsense at this level. But not surprising. All I (or anyone) can do is to keep putting out videos in effort to promote logic & reason.
It's not genocide when god does it! Or god's allowed to commit genocide. Or whatever.
He would be surprised because it makes no sense whatsoever. As for the Divine Command Theory, I would presume Cody is probably not sufficiently educated to be sufficiently familiar with the concept.
Angel Mendez-Rivera He needs to be educated to know about a method of how people can excuse their lack of compassion? Well "thank god" for that! If it's that easy to avoid religious evil, I'll take it!
@@88marome Sounds to me like you're deliberately misrepresenting my words, if not misinterpreting them. I never said anything about avoiding religious evil. I'm merely explaining why it'd make sense for a person to not know about the fact that many Christians still today subscribe to the Divine Command Theory. I don't understand what about my explanation is difficult to comprehend, or what about my explanation is incorrect so as to deserve being criticized.
Every time I see Frank Turek speak, he seems angry.
Relax, it's just divine rage
It's an integral part of his comedy routine.
That's how he projects "confidence."
It's a good tactic to make people stop and listen a bit more
Now that is something I can agree with. I think it is perhaps frustration at the inability to see the obvious :)
Why did Abraham not say, “Child sacrifice? That couldn’t be the loving god I know?”
because it didn't actually happen?
@@buttercroissant9633 According to the bible it did, and that is the little detail that many christians dont like to admit.
Because god is not loving in the old testament. Hes a blood thirsty and vindictive god.
@@buttercroissant9633 Yes, but theologically, they are admitting that Abraham thought his god capable and worthy of demanding the ritual slaughter of a child. At the same time, they will say that their god would never do that
@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer Yes, and the Abraham character behaved as if he agreed
Turek: “When God decides someone should die, it’s not murder for him.”
Textbook special pleading
@Trolltician Sorry, but I believe you misinterpreted what he said. I believe he was saying that when God wants to kill someone, or "decide they should die," it is not murder which is special pleading. If I am mistaken, please correct me Tim Davis, assuming you see this.
@Trolltician When anyone purposefully kills someone, it is called murder.
God is an exception to this rule.
Making the argument that God is special, and is the sole exception to this rule (when I kill someone on purpose it is murder) is called special pleading.
@Trolltician wow do you not understand what special pleading is?, it definitely is special pleading
@Trolltician Hi. You are incorrect. You may not kill a burglar, you may stop him by using whatever necessary force is required, which is self defence.
If you stop him, then he is incapacitated, then you decide to kill him afterwards, that is murder.
God doesnt need to kill, he chooses too.
Glad I could clear up your error.
@Trolltician Wonderful! I just like it when a person cannot have a civil conversation! Why did you bother commenting if you are really only going to insult me? I also find it odd that you think I am being arrogant, I was just clarifying what I thought he meant, better yet, I did not even insult you.
I would like to point out that I am well aware of the fact that killing is not in of itself wrong. However, when I say "decides they should die," I am really saying that in quotations, I do not literally mean that God is choosing for someone to die. In reality, when God does kill someone in the Bible, a person will say that God just "chose" to do it, instead of saying what it actually is, murder. Now, are the deaths of everyone caused by God? I do not know, personally, I consider it unlikely, I am an atheist after all. Also, what makes God choosing for someone to die not murder. Your analogy does not really work, as it is self-defense, which, I would imagine, is something God would not need. God "chooses" to have someone die for no justifiable reason, unless you count age which means God still intentionally allowed others to die.
Overall, you seem to be unable to grant a premise for the sake of argument. Which is ultimately what we are doing, we do not believe that God is causing people to die. How you managed to to extrapolate that is beyond me. Anyways, word of advise, stop insulting people in conversations, you are only making others think of you as insufferable, annoying, and insecure in your position.
I'm never really a big fan of in person Q&A sessions like this because it gives the speaker the opportunity to do exactly what Turek did here. Dodge questions, give answers that are designed to emotionally manipulate the other person.
It's irritating to listen to and it accomplishes nothing of value and makes Frank look like he actually knows what he's talking about.
That is a bingo!
Yup. That sums it up pretty well
I think that's the point, Why do you think he does it?, if it makes him look good wouldn't he do that?, if it only benefits him he would do it
In general it's a bad idea to try to deliver a gotcha question to someone while they control the room. They'll easily make you look like a fool (at least in the eyes of people who already agree with them) and not let you respond.
@@ARoll925 Obviously that's why he does. I was saying I don't like these kind of venues because nothing of value is accomplished.
Cody could have asked, “If prayer works, why do you need to go to the doctor?”
My religious family got the best specialist doctors when a loved one got cancer. When the patient survived for a while, they thanked god and ignored the medical teams. When he died, their faith was unchanged, at least on the surface
This kind of question was instrumental to me leaving my faith.
He would simply resort to what he tried here - God works through other people, like doctors. To refuse to seek medical help would be to refuse God's help. Because God only cures cancers on his own when he wants to. Yet never regrows lost limbs. Total remission of stage IV cancer is an obvious miracle to many Christians, but a regrown limb never happens because it would interfere with free will, despite the fact that the definition of a miracle is the impossible made possible. Or something.
@@kevindavis5966 Yes, he would probably try that. I would point out that god seems to work thru people at exactly the rate and timing that science advances. God was not working thru people to treat cancer before people came up with the science. And if god is all-powerful, whatever means she works thru, it should succeed immediately and perfectly.
@scienceexplains302 an appropriate response to that would be to ask a question of Frank wanting to know why he limits his all-powerful deity so.
OH Sweet!! I thought he may be joking when he mentioned this.
"With every medical breakthrough, all the gods learn new miracles..."
Lame gods we made in our image!
I throw up in my mouth when apologist obtain doctorates in theology and people call them doctor. It’s degrades people with real degrees.
To be fair a doctorate in anything is an impressive feat of commitment and study. That is assuming the doctorate is obtained from a credible institution.
I mean you could be a doctor of medieval literature and while that doctorate isn't going to help you invent the hover toaster it's not like it doesn't require dedication and expertise to obtain.
The problem with degrees is theology is that so many are granted from disreputable sources.
Turek Recieved his doctorate from Southern Evangelical Seminary which is accredited under title 4 of the higher education act. I can't speak to the quality of the institution but it at least passes the surface level legitimacy test.
One of the best authors of all time, P. G. Wodehouse, said: "It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them."
I feel the same way about using the title _doctor._
@Skeptic Psychologist I'm pretty sure the higher education act is federal.
If engineering would be like theology there would still be no decision on which shape should be used to go under a wheelbarrow.
@Skeptic Psychologist As I said in my first post, I can't speak to the actual quality of the school but the very first test, is Turek's degree accredited, is a yes.
My greater point is that a degree in theology isn't necessarily worthless. It is possible to dedicate your academic life to the study of theology and receive a legitimate doctorate for your effort.
How legitimate is Turek's doctorate? I don't know.
Edit* you're right though, so many evangelical preachers are the definition of dishonest when they call themselves doctors after getting a mail in doctorate from a trailer in the desert.
An additional counter to "You shall not put God to the test". "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it" - Malachi 3:10.
Nice try Cody, but Turok is a crafty bastard who's been outsmarting dinosaurs for many years. (C'mon, I can't be the only N64 fan)
I'm a Turok 2 guy, myself. Cerebral bore, baby.
It took me a minute but the light bulb eventually turned on. Well done.
You aren’t, I have a shirt and a hoodie (and I wore my hoodie to college today) . I even have Turok on my Xbox One
I love that game even more now that I can think of it as a mockery of young earth creationists lol
Haaaa
This guy!
I'm joking a bit here, but I can see a bumper sticker that says, "Jesus is waiting for you at the new spawn point." #gamergeek
Jesus is in another castle
@@trybunt Jesus is chilling in the safe house. #L4D
It took Jesus 3 days to respawn. Talk about lag
@@thebolas000 5Ghz, 502.11ac wifi wasn't a thing back in the Roman Empire, so…
Jesus saves and takes half damage.
You two are wonderful this way. I just avoid conversations like that, because they do frustrate me and trigger me. I've always been told - and I think it is true - that you can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. And Frank Turek is a man who doesn't want to be convinced.
Frank Turek is a man whose income depends on him not being convinced. :P
I definitely do avoid conversations like this too
Can confirm. PineCreek is a great channel. I can recommend subbing to it and checking out his back catalogue.
It is.
Love this Dynamic Mennonite Duo Lol. Great video guys! Would like to see more of you two working together!
14:45 As I'm sure Paul and Doug know, It's a category error to talk about atheism permitting or not permitting anything. Atheism isn't a philosophy or worldview or moral system, it's the answer to a single question.
@Trolltician I guess you don't have any good points to make, because if you did you wouldn't have to resort to name calling.
God is a special pleading argument personified.
I encourage if you're going to ask one of these dichotomies, remove the agency of the person, rather the event already happened. We have two groups of people:
In one group, people who sincerely believed in the Christian god prayed for theses people's cancer to be healed, and we know they received no other medical treatment.
In the other group we know for certain no one prayed for them, but they did receive modern medical treatments like chemotherapy.
These things happened in the past. The question for Turek is, before we look at the data, which group does Frank expect had a better recovery rate? Frank doesn't have the agency to select which group he would rather be in, he's rather an outside observer being asked to evaluate his expectations with regards to how these two groups turned out.
@Trolltician
Not at all. Both groups exists.
While the members of one group either died or had their cancer go into remission. Asking you or any other Fraud the question doesn't at all create a false dichotomy.
@Trolltician Failed troll. Sad thetard is sad.
@Trolltician -if you’re going to adopt the title “Trolltician,” you should at least try to not be shit at trolling
"Jesus changed location for our sins" - hahaha!!!
The purification of "sin" is the sun rising from winter/darkness (evil) to spring/light (good).
Yay!! Two of my favorite youtubers together! You did a great job. Thank you both!!!
"God can take us out whenever he wants because men just change location!"
So when a man takes out someone, is it ok because he's just changing their location too?
Missed that little gold mine.
🤣
I thought the same. He justified murder by EVERYONE, not just God. Whoopsie.
But he didn't discuss where that person was going. If their destination was Hell does that change things?
I like to think I would have asked much better questions than Cody did, but somehow I think I'd probably do worse.
I think this went way better in Cody's head too
Turek is a PROFESSOR? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
He's more like a fortune teller using the Bible like a crystal ball.
Frank seems to carefully choose which questions get put on his channel. I've seen a few that have really obvious straw man atheist arguments. That's giving him the benefit of the doubt they aren't straight up actors.
@Trolltician like?
@Trolltician So frank does indeed choose strawman arguments to put on his channel. Interesting that you think all of them were obvious strawman.
I remember similar question: You can have a church or
police precinct in your town, not both. What do you choose?
You know, in 2020/2021 that question, for a lot of people, might not be so easy to answer.
Wow. You guys just laid out a series of incredible questions! This Ontarian thanks you.
Our pleasure!
"Murdering is okay for me to do to you. Because I am larger than you." -Frank's God
It gives me soooo much pleasure seeing and hearing you guys together. I hope this will be a regular event.
Sadly Frank lost the argument because he couldn’t answer a simple question.
“We don’t have time” is how you avoid answering questions.
As a side note Cody sounds like I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E from Team America.
Pine Creek is awesome, one of my favorite athiest youtubers!
@Trolltician I haven't noticed, can you give an example?
@Trolltician no i think that's you
@Trolltician So no examples? another baseless assertion from the sad troll.
Paul, I loved this video. Stumbled upon it. If Cody keeps practising and studying hell make a great debator.oved both suggestions how Cody could have approached Turek. Learned a lot. Thanks.
Frank is the type of guy to beat around the bush when you ask him a simple question like what did you have for dinner
I thought Cody did alright. He just didn't know he was arguing against a hoax-.
When he mentioned Hitchens and Dawkins I saw a flinch... Turek's full of old scars... and keeps repeating the same lies, because that is a proven method.
Hoping to see more "apologetics Q&A strategy for atheists" episodes.
Excellent video - thank you Paulogia :)
This vid had my name on it, so I figured it was mine. Magic deserves an earthly master who knows what’s best for his wizard servants. And I’m glad he’s finally woken up to that purpose.
Cody, good effort. Keep studying, keep trying. Paulogia’s approach may be more sophisticated, but it was not terse enough forma the setting.
@Trolltician lol what, trying hard to form a comeback?
I probably spend half my time on TY listening to Pinecreek videos, so I thank you for having him on. Now you need to convince him to get on Patreon! Plz Doug, take my money. I expect no PinePoint$ in return.
Never realized that Paulogia and PineCreek ever teamed up. Very cool!
Frank's dancing would impress even Fred Astaire !
Since when was Frank qualified enough to be addressed as Professor?
ahhahahahahah
My questions for Frankie:
1. “Do people actually pay real money for your books?”
2. “No seriously why would anyone actually buy your books?”
Damn. Those are great questions. I think some people buy them, never read them, and tell people "oh you gotta read this book I just read"
People only buy them to give them to atheists. So yah, the few that are bought, are never read.
I would ask him how do you sleep at night?, if he had a conscience he couldn't do what he does
A fool and his money will soon be parted.
People think that is in the bible.
It is not.
I feel second-hand embarrassment while watching poor Cody.
I love Cody's brave approach to soneone who's been doing this for years. Keep up the good work. Keep studying.
No Cody's flustered responses don't give Frank the appearance of being the reasonable one. Saying genocide is bad only because Jesus said so is not reasonable. Just because he says it with a straight face and calmly doesn't make it reasonable or make the person saying it appear reasonable.
You have to have the perspective of a Turek fan
Love the non-resistance humor!!
You two were already at the top of the list. As a team, you may take over the world. Your reasoned criticism of both sides was spectacular. How you keep your emotions in check in dealing with ole Frank, boggles my mind, in a good way.
Who is Pinky and who is the Brain?
I saw one of these where Turek is annoyed because some scientists explained that the many worlds theory allows for an explanation that we just happen to live in one of these worlds where things are tuned for life to be possible. That conflicts with the finetuning argument.
But Craig needs these many worlds to have his kalam-cosmological theory 'if god is possible he must exist in one of the many worlds of the multiverse'...
That's not the kalam, the kalam (which is kind of a misnomer, since the mutakalimun had many arguments, but it was established as "the kalam" so I use that name anyway) is about everything needing a cause. The "maximally great being" argument is unrelated.
I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "If atheism is true" not followed by unsubstantiated nonsense.
That may partly at least be because atheism makes no truth claims.
If the lack of belief is true.... 🙄
It's a lot like the phrase "Not for nothing"--nothing intelligent ever followed either one.
As soon as they say "if atheism is true", you know they're talking about the strawman.
It's like saying "if not believing in Santa Clause is true, then …". It literally is a nonsense statement, and apologists know this but say it anyway.
Yeaaaahhhh animated Doug!
The team up I've been waiting for!
Perfect answer to the gotcha question about killing your family.
"Well, not again."
Watching this back and forth made me annoyed, because it made me realize just how much apologetics relies on word games. The point is not to have an honest conversation with the person, but to redirect the questions to make it sound like you’re the one winning. For example, Cody asked Turkey a direct yes or no question and he takes the high road by not saying either yes or no but taking the question in a completely different direction. Then he makes Cody lose track of his own question and frustrates him until it makes him look like the bad guy.
It’s so sneaky and even manipulative that it makes me a little sick to my stomach. This is why I left religion. It doesn’t seem genuine to me anymore, just a series of psychological tricks.
And with an audience in attendance that's mostly Christian
It played right into Tureks hands
I got frustrated when he pointed out the assertion that if atheism is true, genocide is allowed and yet the same god whom he claims to be the standard of morality has committed many atrocities of his own in the bible although many Christians selectively alter thier perceptions of this in order to not really answer it directly
Either way
I do agree with
Just psychological tricks that only a few are aware of
@@thedragonofechigo7878 Cody pretty much lost the argument as soon as he said the word “genocide” because most of the people in the audience would immediately take that as an attack. When I was still a Christian, my friend tried to use a similar argument by saying that the Bible condoned some pretty immoral things. The supposedly god fearing Israelites pretty much wiped out entire civilizations in the first section of the Bible for example. His biggest problem was his wording. He could have said, “Do you think mass murder is wrong?” And then Turek would give his answer and probably weasel his way out of it. Then immediately after you could say, “In this verse God commands the Israelites to completely destroy a group of people. Why does he command it here when he condemns murder in the Ten Commandments?”
My point is that he should be showing hypocrisy in the Christian doctrine rather than assuming that people will agree with him when he says the Bible condones horrible actions. That doesn’t work in an audience of Christians
You need to meet with that young man and help prepare him for his next Turek encounter.
Oh hey! I watched and commented on this Cross Examined video 6 days after it came out. Iirc, my question was something like “Why does the fact that the Christian god can resurrect people give him the right to kill people? If I could perform CPR perfectly, that doesn’t give me the right to put people in a place where they need CPR. What’s different about the Christian god?”
Can’t wait to watch this video and see if Paul brings up that point!
Darn, they didn’t bring it up. I’d love to know if atheists think it’s a worthwhile question, and I’d love even more to hear Christians responses to it
I hope nobody has to spend eternity in hell.
We need more Cody today. Maybe not the best questions but he pointed out the problems with believing in stories. But remember, gods are designed to win every case posible, they are made to valid excuses and racional thinking. God is a Superman that not even kryptonite can cause any weakness. It’s a win, win until it’s not. Like a placebo, it works until it doesn’t and then believers say, the placebo works in mysterious ways. With this mentality the placebo wins every time.
Roberto Jimenez, I like to call it "heads God wins, tails you lose". I still can't fathom how long it took me to figure that out.
My family is Minnonite and Im the only atheist.
@Trolltician Is this supposed mean something?
@@HarderTime89 Don't worry, he's got nothing. He is the Brett Keane of trolls.
With people like Frank Turek I would not want to spend a hour let alone eternity
How can there be a thumbs down before it's even started?
Love the name. I would guess that someone dislikes Paulogia so much it transends content barriers.
Jesus knows everything. And yes, I have fed Hercules father.
It's most likely that pathetic sack of pig crap that goes by the name of Trolltician.
« When I decide someone must dies, it’s not murder for me »
Obviously something no murderer would ever say.
This is a dream team. You need to do a live show together! I have seen Paul on the ACA but I think your nature is more gentle than Matt's and you don't seem to participate as much.
You guys are so freaking smart. Spooky smart. I can't believe how insightful your knowledge on the Christian religion is. You spot strategies in the communication exchange that are incredibly informative.
I feel it is so important to not be perceived as combative in these conversations as it just causes people to put up a defensive wall. You guys were spot on seeing this happen with Cody.
My preferred hypothetical for this sort of conversation is this: You have two men. One is a devout believer, who attends church three times every week, and follows what his pastor suggests to him to a T, but is renowned for having a wicked temper, regularly beating his wife and children and generally tearing down those around him. The other is a stout atheist who volunteers at his local food bank multiple times per week, is nearly always ready with a helping hand, and is an all around morally sound citizen. Which of these men do you believe is more likely to make it into heaven?
I feel that this question really gets to the heart of the issue - which does the person asked believe God cares about most, Faith or Morality? It neatly avoids the standard response of conflating the two ("Well, if a person is truly faithful, then they're also going to be morally sound."), and specifically separates the two traits out (Immoral believer VS Moral nonbeliever). Unfortunately, I haven't actually gotten a straight answer to the question... Probably because it is rather obvious which answer is the correct one (The moral non-believer), and which one is the biblical one (the immoral believer).
See, athiests can beat cancer with one of these choices and not the other. Are there any theists that would be willing to do that?
YES. Wait... living ones? Never mind.
I loved this young man cody!!! Keep asking those questions!!!😀
Here are some more questions that Cody could have asked.
* What makes god's morality objective?
* If god's morality contains things that are indisputably at odds with humanity's best interest, what about it being "objective" makes it worth following? Why would it be better to adhere to an apparently suboptimal "objective" morality?
* Don't we have to make a subjective evaluation that god's standard is objective and worth following? So how does it avoid being mere "personal opinion"?
* Since we know god has commanded harmful acts before, how can we be sure that a harmful act being committed now wasn't also divinely commanded?
My personal favorite question to ask Christians is "did the 300 foxes incident in Judges 15 really happen?" In case you don't remember, this is where Samson catches 300 foxes, ties their tails together by twos, sets their tails on fire, and releases them into the ripe wheat fields of the Philistines. This incident is so laughably over-the-top. I mean, how did Samson keep hold of 300 foxes? Did he build cages? Stuff them into bags? How did he get the foxes to hold still while he's tying up their tails? How many miracles did all that take? Why would God do miracles for Samson, who was not exactly a guy noted for his piety? What was the point of burning the crops of the Philistines instead of, say, sending missionaries to them? This is one of the many stories in the Bible that are so horrible, one can only hope they are not true.
Yes, and then there was the hundreds of people on top of the Philistine temple he collapsed - structures usually rather small, at the time.
Yes!! I love the thought experiments at the end of this!!!
doug is turning to super sayan with that hair lol
this looks fun more please
The lesson here seems to be that expecting a given answer before the question is asked does not work for anyone.... regardless of their beliefs.
I would be terrified of doing what Cody did (if only because Dr Turek has decades of experience with gotchas and how to not get into one) so props to him. He does do a little begging the question near the end - probably cuz he was flustered - but I think it was smart to have carefully worded questions written down
Just the mention of having to give up coffee or chocolate set my anxiety off
It really gets my goat how Turek (autocorrected to turkey by my phone, how fitting) uses "atheism allows for genocide" as a gotcha based on our moral feelings about genocide, while at the same time implying that his theism allows for genocide because God can murder whoever he wants and there's nothing wrong with that. He loads a round meant to evoke moral disgust then fires it into his own foot.
Isn't it heresy on Doug's part to feature on someone else's channel ? I'm not complaining, I love it.
Great video guys
I think the big catch here is that the statement was "You can only choose one" in stead of "IF you could only chose one." It may seem like an insignificant detail, but it allowed him to separate that final aspect of the question from the hypothetical nature of the original inquiry.
Pinecreek’s animated debut?
I believe so!
Wow! Pinecreek and Paulogia! At last :)
The issue with Abraham to me is the mindset that doesn't question god's demand as being something that god would ask to begin with, as if there weren't some possibility that they were being deceived by some other entity OTHER than god. This means either that the believer acknowledges that this demand is well within the scope of what they expect from God, or that the believer is unwilling to accept the possibility that they are being deceived by a false god. Either way, said believer cannot be a reliable source for any lessons regarding the character of god. This "second order thinking" appears to elude believers entirely, clinging so closely to the surface of their beliefs that they are incapable of applying any form of critical thinking.
Tsk, tsk. Cody. Better luck next time.😂
Come for the debunk, stay for Frita 🥺
"I don't have time to grow corn."
My rebuttal would be, "Can't your god make food fall put of the sky."
Frank: "What makes you think God doesn't work through doctors?"
Me: "Can't god heal without doctors?"
I'd love to hear Frank's response.
This is probably one of your best videos in my option. Please make more like this.
Frank can't answer a question straight to save his life!
It's funny, Paul, I was imagining a similar hypothetical that I could pose to my Christian friends and it took the following form: "What what would you do if a situation were to arise where what you consider right thing to do clearly conflicts with what God commands you to do?" And I immediately thought that the predictable response would be that they would reject the premises of the hypothetical with something like "well what I consider right would always be what God commands by default so that situation would never happen."
That is an interesting question. If you're friends are thinkers they probably won't respond immediately as you suggest, thought the ultimate answer is likely to something similar to what you say, but it is not a rejection of the hypothetical in this case. Christians are almost always faced with the dilemma of what they think is right and what God thinks is right when it comes to the issue of sexuality or gender.
8:22 - The conclusion that choosing the doctor over prayer would then mean that Frank relies on people rather than God is false. Remember, God created people and encourages us to live in relationship with one another as well as Him. Choosing to trust in doctors created by God trusting that their knowledge of His design of the human body is just as much an act of faith in God as prayer is. In fact, medicine and science are an exercise in the belief that the human body and the universe are orderly enough to be understood. You can only expect this from a universe created (emphasis on created) with a purpose rather a universe born of nothing by unguided random processes.
That Superman/God thought experiment, as stated, needs to be revised. As stated, both God and Superman exists. Therefore, praying to God out loud would result in Superman likely hearing it, and your wife would be saved by Superman, but God would still get the credit. The choice should be between which one you would rather have actually exist in that scenario, not which one you ask for help.
Awesome! Before the start of this video was an ad asking Christians to get out and vote, the day after the U.S. election!
Frank really is as deceptive and as crafty as they come
No question that can cause me to question my faith.
You should always be questioning your faith. Nobody except Jesus was that perfect and even he questioned God: 'If you be willing, take this cup from my lips... but not my will but yours be done.'
@@wayneburchell6346 because of who the author and finisher of my faith is...there is no question that anyone can ask me that will make me question the 1 holy faith that has be given and increased in me by Him.
My faith is not in me so I do not have to question it just use it and build it up.
Although I have to be ready to give an answer for the hope.
@@agentb7433 Fair enough
@@wayneburchell6346 my original statement was to the infidels from the video that went along with the misguided cody.
Amen brother