Adaptive Weapon Proficiency in RPGs - Realistic?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- In many roleplaying systems you find the idea of applying a particular weapon skill to a different weapon at a penalty if need be. So I figured it might be interesting to discuss if and how that would work in real life.
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"Grab your Doritos and your Mountain Dew and get ready to nerd out."
*when i first heard that*
Oh my Skall, that's just stereotyping!
*upon realizing i have Doritos and Mountain Dew right on my desk*
Touche.
Polpot Lee
For a steriotipe to exist, it needs to be true 80% of the time.
Levi Visconti More like 20%. Just enough to be noticeable without actually being generally applicable.
Corwin Hyatt No, stereotypes are usually actually true. It is hard to conform to be defined by abstract qualities and behaviours others see in you, but when you accept that you are a tribal creature, and understand that most human behaviour comes from observing others, you will end up agreeing with the idea that stereotypes are very real and valid.
How fucking good is Mountain Dew though
Fat Mat I personally don't like it, but I do love some Dorito flavours.
I think it's realistic, I tried to learn rapier fighting a while back, failed catastrophically, then latter I learned how to box, then I tried rapiers again and realized that I was a lot better because a lot of the footwork carried over as well as some of the strategies, knowledge of spacing and so on, not just that but it helped my knife fighting out a lot as well so my vote goes for it being 100% realistic
It just sounds like you got a shitty teacher who couldn't teach you footwork properly and the boxing coach was better at it teaching.
OH I had no teacher, there are none in the country as far as I know, I was mostly studying some manuals and trying to figure out the movements
Im a pretty good knife fighter, picked up a rapier one day messed with it, once i got used to the length and guard (took about 3-6 hours of practice) now im amazing with rapiers they used tp be my least favorite now i love em, only thing is im not used to the restrictive grip because i like switching up my stances and grip alot because i can do it fast and im an ambidextrous fighter so it became pretty useful over time and with rapiers you kinda cant, thats why sword bayonets are still my #1 favorite
Reminds me of something RUclipsr Ramsey Dewey said. "Take the best boxer in the world, give them a knife, and now they are the best knife fighter in the world". He was complaining about how a lot of "knife fighting" classes don't teach you techniques that would work in a realistic scenario where someone's actively trying to resist/kill you. Instead, they teach you very fancy disarming techniques that require you to know exactly what your opponent's about to do, make centimeter-precise movements, and move five times as fast as your opponent in order to work (or maybe require your opponent to just stand there like an idiot and not resist you).
oddly enough if you've learned boxing you've actually learned a varient of sword fighting , western 5 style sword fighting is one of the roots of modern boxing , if you don't believe me , get into a typical western 5 en garde stance without a sword....close and turn your fists up like you've seen ye old 1920's boxers do... voila*
I love RPGs that lock items by level like:
"Ah this helmet is much better than mine"
*Shakes violently unable to put it on*
"THIS. IS. BEYOND. MY. POWER!"
If you put it on, its arcane powers will overwhelm and take over you. Duh, OP it's fantasy just imagine shit /s
So every high level helmet is Dr. Fate?
To be fair, I would say that there is a tiny tidbit of fact to it. Like, suppose you steal a full face helmet off of a dead knight during a battle. You put it on, and you realize that you've never trained with extremely restricted eye slits. And you can't find the visor release latch because it's on the outside of your head and you can't see it. Meanwhile, someone comes up to you outside of your (tiny) field of view and stabs you while you're fiddling with it.
This is reflected in my experience: the first time I tried to fight with night vision goggles (I was playing an 18-hour airsoft game and my friend loaned me a set), I was completely useless. I hadn't trained to look through optics through my nvgs, and I hadn't set up my IR laser in a place where I could easily activate it. In other words, I couldn't target anyone and I had to kinda spray uselessly in their direction. Another time, my friend borrowed a helmet with nvgs but it wasn't set up for his head. It ended up slipping off his head constantly throughout the 9-hour patrol, and he would have been better off without any of the kit.
In other words, having fancy equipment doesn't automatically make you good at fighting. Sometimes, it can make you even worse than you would have been without the equipment. Thus, it's not completely unreasonable that you'd want to wait until you have a bit of training before using it (which the game might reflect via level requirements).
Also, you wouldn't believe the number of times I've lit up a friendly because of lack of training with nvgs. It wouldn't surprise me if, the first five times I used nvgs, a quarter of the people I wasted were friendlies.
Also, heavier armour tends to cause more pressure points and restriction in movement. Wearing a combat helmet for several hours can be downright excruciating if it's not set up properly for your head, and if you haven't trained with it. And of course, the helmets I've worn were padded with modern foam and moisture wicking linings, etc. I don't want to think about how bad a medieval one could have been.
Don't you just love it when you're 3 mins into the video and RUclips gives you the notification now.
at least you got the notification
true
I prefer those times when I see a channel has a new video, I watch it, and then YT gives me the notification the next day
More super geeky topics like this please! That was awesome.
Interestingly. More modern RPGs are foregoing single weapon proficiencies and instead have skills like "light weapons". I guess they are dumping realism for sake of simplicity. Who knew the old school RPGs had it right all along:)
Also nice to know you are a GURPs fan. Yes skill lists in the hundreds is also my thing haha.
L5R keeps it simple enough with categories that classify different styles of fighting that don't help at all for different weapons (unarmed combat, chain weapons, swords, knives, spears, polearms, staves), with a specialization that you can get for one specific weapon. Fighting duels is a whole different skill because it's quite different compared to regular combat, and some exotic weapons (like war fans) have their own category because they are so different. Also swords don't include stuff that is too different from a katana in the fighting style, European fighting swords are considered exotic weapons.
In Ad&d, aka 2nd edition, there was a Weapon Proficency Sistem, where points were allocated to a single weapon, not just a group
As Lindeybeige put it: a person with a lot of experience fighting with swords would tend to have a lot of experience with "fighting" period. Thus, they wouldn't be completely screwed using a different weapon.
Great video. I love your serious treatment of the technical aspects combined with the overall lighthearted tone and acknowledgment that it's a nerdy subject.
The D&D movie, Honor Among Thieves, has a scene worth noting for this sort of thing. The group is in a Gladiatorial Maze. No one has a weapon, and thus the group knows that they need to find some. Also, the Sorcerer and Druid have Magic Nullifiers attached to them, so no spells or transformations.
Druid (a Tiefling, mind you) finds a sword in a chest - looks to be an arming sword sort (either a shortsword or a longsword, which druids aren't proficient with, unless they are an elf, have the Weapon Master Feat that has it included, or they multi-classed into/out of a class that has proficiency with them - using D&D 5e rules that is). Barbarian also checks out a chest - It's a Mimic! Druid uses their sword to chop off the creature's tongue to rescue the Barbarian.
So, regardless of if you like the movie or not, it does include how in a pinch, even a spellcaster will grab a sword.
So here is my understanding of the characteristics of weapons that determine their similarity.
- Length
- weight
- Intended motion (curved edge slash, straight edge hew, or stabbing, in that order)
- available motions (for instance, a sai lacks edges entirely, making it a stabbing only weapon)
- 1 or 2 handed
- Existence of hand protection
- Number of edges (1, 2, or 0, in that order)
If you account for all of those, then congratulations, your rpg is probably unplayably dense, but you have achieved realism.
Only nitpick I have, the sai isn't for stabbing. It's more of a baton.
I loved Steve Jackson's "GURPS". This is a good discussion. Thank you :)
Sais have two modes, depending on how you want to use them. At 4:25, that is using them in a more defensive manner. The other mode is using them more like a parrying dagger and for added reach. I've had some time using them and while they are easy to learn, a person does need some training with them to be effective.
The sai is quite literally an eastern parrying dagger with slightly more offensive power, so this isnt too surprising. its designed to catch a weapon, disarm it, and then punch through most basic forms of armor.
Glad to have you validate my system. It's already designed to follow what you've been saying. Thanks.
GURPS is exactly what made me wonder about this particular subject. Good work.
I like going with a weapon triangle, you have in the three corners chopping, cutting and thrusting with the most specific weapons at each edge and the most balanced weapon going in the middle, how you apply the penalty is that it becomes heavier and heavier the farther you move away from the point in which your weapon proficiency lies with an additional penalty if the grip changes (handshake one-hand, hammer one-hand, two-hand, one-and-half does not cause a penalty to the weapon proficiency but to the weapon itself, with slightly less power in hits and parries if you use it as a two-hand and slightly less dexterity as a one-hand no matter what your grip specialization is)
A GURPS bearer!
Once upon a time there was a system named "7th Sea" where fencing styles was a bit more relevant. This system clearly differentiated swords, for instance, by its balance: longswords, great swords, fencing swords, saber-like blades (with the fulcrum point near to the tip), etc.
And there was different fencing styles as well. Some inspired on real world renaissance, others in movies and so on.
I find the concept of the 'false friend" phenomenon interesting. It would imply that habits in one style would be more detrimental when inappropriately applied to another style than attempting the other style completely untrained.
that advertising at the end was awsome
Nicely said... I like your adaptation on gurps :) and advice for any rapier and dagger fencers - take some boxing lessons, it can really help you with hand technique
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it." Mathew Quigley
I've seen games where you use a scimitar to perform thrusting attacks, so yes, if you do that sort of things you could adapt to any weapon
Stick them with the pointy end
Witnessed this firsthand when a friend of mine who's familiar with the messer tried using a sidesword. Even though the actual motions are very similar, just the different way of gripping the sword made it nearly unusable for him.
And on the other end I, being most familiar with the rapier, tried picking up a sidesword, and even though I had a hard time executing the "proper" moves for a sidesword, I was still able to fight somewhat decently well simply by treating it like a shorter and wider rapier because the basic shape and the way of gripping the sword were similar enough.
I love that you have a GURPS book on hand, it's my first choice system to use.
I actually, Unknowingly, made a very realistic system for crafting weapons in a prototype gaming system which has been thrown into the trash as of now. It had different classifications of Melee Weapons (Slashing, Hewing, Thrusting, and Throwing) . You are proficient in the certian classification and they each do different damage based on the technique you use. I'll provide an example (Is not very good) One of my players had a fairly traditional European arming sword. This sword was considered a slashing weapon and had 2d6+1d4 slashing and thrusting damage, and 2d4+1d4 hewing damage. So you could use it to hew but it had a -4 maximum damage, I don't entirely remember how this system worked but I feel if I had refined it more it could have been fairly interesting.
I'm remembering that scene from 13th Warrior where Ibn/Eben, who is trained in fighting with shamshir-like weapons, must use a European spatha-type sword and isn't very good with it. Props to whoever did the fight choreography for that movie for the realism of that moment.
Personal experience of spinning a short staff with weighted ends then trying out nunchuck. The static aspect as apposed to the rigidness throws ya for a loop but a lot of the techniques carried over enough so that I could seriously spin nunchuck in a manner that I was confident moving around and not hitting myself. With that said every object does have techniques strictly related to that object. Depending on the state of mind it could work in a pinch, and your skill level is watered down but just depends how proficient your opponent is In that weapon
What makes no sense is Fire Emblem Fates' weapon proficiency. Like you train a character to master swords up to S rank in the swordmaster class then you reclass him to let say blacksmith and now he's B rank in swords. Like what? He suddenly forgot stuff he learned about sword fighting just because he stopped being a swordmaster.
You could think of it this way: Learning a craft takes up quite a bit of time, so in order to learn blacksmithing he'd have to sacrifice a lot of training time with swords. And martial arts are a "use it or lose it" skill... you don't forget everything if you stop practicing but you'll definitely get worse at it over time.
Anyone else watching the back wall while he's swinging the shamshir around, seeing if the tip is going to connect?
4:45 - not a baa-a-a-d sheepsfoot blade you've got there.
The Parrying dagger grip you used is the same as one of many used on sai. So I would say they are VERY close as I have used both weapons I can tell you they have much in common. A sai can however be used like a club, and the Main-gauche can be used to cut. The sai is not an edged weapon.
Cool video :) , Also ooh I am a fan of your coat at the end of the video.
@3:29 That is one correct way to hold a sai.
Have a look at the last duel in Rob Roy for a pretty good example of how a rapier doesn't work like most other swords.
Great vid. I use Chinese Dao and Jian techniques combined, so I have to use the katana or sabre. Really love both these weapons although I find it far easier to thrust with the katana somehow.
Holy fuck skall has a physical gurps rulebook. His nerd cred has officially skyrocketed.
I'd say yes. When you think about it, the basic principles in combat, no matter the style or weapon.
Are the same. A kick is still a kick, a punch is still a punch. A thrust with a rapier is the same as a thrust with a staff.
The whole idea of the movement is the same; only small changes, to fit the tool used (a.e; Bare hands, Bo Staff, etc.) are made. Try preforming the moves that you use with weapons without them. Or, the opposite. (Just be careful with that one.) Do this, and with some work, you could easily see that with changes. You could quickly and fluidly adapt one movement, one style, one principle, to the other. Anyways, just a thought. Idk. :)
It is a correct grip for the sai. But there are also grips that are more dagger like.
I tried a sabre for the first time and missed a lot of cuts because it was a diff length and the point you hit with was at a diff distance. I imagine for many people there is an "adjustment period" where they figure out how to apply the skills they have -- if any -- to a diff weapon, even a diff type of similar weapon, like a different kind of sword.
Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it. I think we can not talk about penalties for fighting with a given type of weapon (or bonuses for that matter) if we do not discuss penalties for fighting against a given type of weapon. If a katana wielder has never fought a fencer and vice versa, given their weapon of choice there are still issues there. They don't have a clue what they are defending. Many weapon styles and systems, martial systems, are based on fighting what's around. If cultures are crossed... It's like with pole-arms. Pole-arms are used in a specific way in groups in warfare and that's what people train to do for martial training usually. As a hobby in the modern day we don't need to kill anyone or defend anyone and we are using antique weapons so it's all theory. It's too complicated to role-play with accuracy, although it's probably worth trying. IF however we are going to throw in penalties for using weapons you don't know, then there would be penalties for fighting opponents you've never fought before, both offensively and defensively. Now when we get into creatures, that's even more complicated. The bonuses that one gets/proficiency for using parrying weapons like parrying daggers and even the rapier...should mean diddly squat against say a panther. You just shouldn't get a bonus. That weapon is only good to stab something attacking you with a pounce, paws and bites. So my point- WHAT are you fighting??? So weapon proficiency is specific to combat type, dueling vs. battle formations versus just trying to hurt things like beholders, dragons, gelatinous cubes, panthers and so on. If we want to get realistic i think we need a whole lot more rules than anyone thought of till now that I know of. I would say we'd start with taking proficiency in weapons for a specific context which don't carry over into any other context. I think working with bonuses, not penalties is better system was for simplicity, ease of use, understanding etc. etc. Just adding numbers. So there is the basic way of determining what you can do in a given combat scenario without training and skills that you could have to improve your odds/options in that scenario. Having training in a weapon for dueling would have no use outside that context. Carry over could be handled instead as a penalty but as a group of bonuses. So like training with a longsword might give you +1 to longsword and then like like +1 in katana to every so many ranks/levels of the skill and so on. Anyway that is how I would address and simplify it...but I prefer just generic attack bonus. It's a little cheesy and really unrealistic...but you aren't going to get close to realistic anyway. Not unless ALL you do is duel.
Speaking to Pathfinder, proficiency in a weapon is exactly that: the ability to use a weapon to its basic capabilities. For some weapons this includes knowing how to trip someone safely or disarm them with it e.t.c., but it just represents knowledge of the functionality of the weapon.
The Fighter core class then has access to class abilities and a bunch of feats that represent specialised training in specific weaponry, for example the (appropriately named) Weapon Training feature gives them a flat bonus to hit and damage with weapons of a similar group (e.g. swords that can be used in two hands, or polearms, e.t.c.).
Barbarians get martial weapon proficiency as standard, because they know how to fight and get the most out of common weapons, but their real fighting ability comes from their Rage feature so they don't have access to advanced weapon-specific abilities as standard.
Similarly, the Ranger gets martial proficiency but their combat bonuses come from fighting their preferred enemies, and it makes sense that if you know exactly how to get past an enemy's defences and where their vulnerable bits are, it doesn't really matter that much what weapon you're using to do it.
Lastly, Paladins have a couple of divine abilities that enhance their combat capabilities against evil enemies because the power of Law and Good, so a lot of the time they end up being that anime stereotype of "if my sword so much as touches you, you will burst into holy fire."
So yeah, a Barbarian going from a sword to an axe isn't going to have too much trouble because their rage is going to help whatever weapon they use, but Fighters are absolutely subject to the "this isn't my weapon" problem you pointed out in the vid.
In dark souls you can parry bare handed or with punching weapons like caestus, you should do a video on that
I spent two years in Okinawa. I saw dudes break katanas because they were trying to use them with a handshake grip and slamming them straight on against tatami rolls. When they were told to think of it like a fishing rod, they became visibly confused.
thats an awesome coat/jacket at the end. Where did yo uget it?
Fellow gurpsoid here
I say that polearms to quarterstaff is just a matter of adjusting to the different balance, but quarterstaff to polearm would have the issue of edge alignement right?
Skall on 12:04 where is that image from is it from a halberd treatise?
Actually in general, are there any spear or halberd or other pole weapon except quarter stuff treatise in English?
Thanks in advance.
could you do something with a scythe please? I would love to see how one would fight with such a weapon , for I looked it up and found jack so in my mind form what I could put together counter fighting would be best to use with a scythe.
Do you think you could look at some of the weapons from Devil May Cry, such as perhaps Sparda and the Kalina Ann? 👌🤞
My personal belief is that the martial arts should be a collection of techniques, like spells, that can or cannot be performed with various weapons. "Hook" for example is something you can do with weapons with axe blades or actual hooks, like a hook sword or lujiaodao. It wouldn't do as much damage as "Strike of the Stupid Caveman" but would hinder the opponent. Conversely, you could try to use "Strike of the Stupid Caveman" with a rapier or dagger, with less than optimal results, potentially even damaging the rapier.
Duel wielding barongs Condor weak hand Cold Steel strong works fine if you're into that style.
Skall, i've trained hema for a while, but i really want to learn about rapier, do you have any material suggestions and stuff?
A doubt that I already have some time, in a scene of duel, not in a battlefield, it would be feasible to use quarterstaff techniques with a spear or halberd? since it would not be limited to the space of the formation
sorry for the bad English, I understand pretty well, but to write, only with the help of the translator
There's a story I'm working on where the main character typically uses a messer, which he uses predominantly in two hands, but also prominently in one hand. However, he's forced at one point to switch to a longsword. Naturally, the two weapons handle notably differently, though they're at least similar enough to cope with.
I am shocked you even have a GURPS system book. I have not seen one in nearly a decade.
I have always agreed with the ideas of adaptive skills.
I'd say if your life depending on it, you are master of small sword, and you have to fight with a saber, you still would do a lot better than people who never trained in any sword.
A lot of things are transferable (even with unarmed MA).
As someone who has a bit of training in the bo, much moreso than any other weapon, it kind of threw me off that you started to discuss the difference between a bo and a quarterstaff but didn't go into it at all.
I have ramen and coke..is that good enough?
yes
As a certain DM likes to say, "you can certainly try..."
what about 2 skills to one like long sword and axes to rapier or any two to 1 combination
Stick 'em with the pointy end.
with using a different a weapon skill?
Literally grabbed a bag of Doritos and took my first bite when you said to grab Doritos. Woh,
The GURPS system is pretty painstakingly detailed, elegant and accurate I think. Because GURPS.
Why do axe do less damage in RPGs or video games in general even though axes have lower speed and higher weight.
i have never seen a game where axes do less damage than a sword of the same material/quality.
Windhelm Guard pretty much every dark souls game. Axes are pretty much useless.
Plus the first two Fire Emblems.
poorly drawn suicidal tendencies I just find it stupid that games do this, I mean common it not blance or anything.
In Dark Souls some of the most damaging weapons are axes, if you have the stats for them. For example the Dragonslayers Axe is a super beastly FTH/STR weapon thats used in one-shot builds. Debunked.
Perfect timing! I was in the middle of writing a story with game stats being visible to the protagonist when I saw your video. Anyway, could anyone help me out? I was wondering if it would be realistic to take a significant penalty for the protagonist using different types of blunt weapons? He starts out using a club (can't find anything better at first) then switches to using war hammers, would there be a lot of carryover or would they be vastly different if one tried to wield them?
I think a war hammer would give you a penalty if you are skilled with clubs, since hammers need "edge" alignment that you wouldn't learn with most clubs (special clubs like Skall's ball with the spike would count as a hammer). Going to a mace from a club would have no such penalty.
Some Rando Thanks! But on the other hand, a war hammer would do much more damage to the human body than a club due to the concentrated force or would they be about even?
If you hit with proper "edge" alignment, a hammer should probably do more damage than a club (unless the club was special somehow), but a misaligned blow from a hammer would probably do less because it would turn in your hand and flop around.
Some Rando Thanks again!
in japanese budo we use the reverse grip mostly for hide the weapon
not sure if yo ualready did this but could you look at the weapons in Dauntless?
Disc pommel annoying your hand?
Thats because its made for throwing, how else would you end him rightly?
I'd still love to see a realistic analysis of the melee weapons from Warframe!
As long as it has a pommel that can be removed, it is translatable!
"but, you wouldn't die..... Necessarily..."
I can play guitar (classical and rock) quite well, i can pick up a bass and do fingering quite well but not slapping, which is bad foreplay
This, I play guitar, but when it comes to a ukelele or a banjo, i dont even know the basic chords XD
Good thing i recently added screw-pommel to my mace.
Mh, I can see why you would wanna argue that there isn't much overlap in proficiencies but I don't think that is actually applicable to your generic fantasy rpg like DnD (I'm most familiar with that).
And that's not the "it's a game!"-argument.
A character gains the ability to use certain types of weapons after advancing a level and investing in a feat. That is not supposed to represent a magical infusion with a new skill but represent the character's training which arguably happened off-screen.
It would then be argued that such a character did indeed train broadlly rather than deeply. They familiarize themselves with most types of weapons without focusing on a particular weapon.
Secondly, these characters are all legendary and any comparison with one's own skills will lead to failure.
DnD characters are not just phenoms, they are the likes of Von Neuman, Newton and Albert Einstein. People who just understand or invent advanced math. They are like the best athletes we have ever known. People who can become a bjj black belt in 3 years, win ufc titles at 21 years old or win Olympic gold. These people are better than we can ever be before they even started training.
DnD characters are way beyond that. Just look at the stats of a commoner. A feat investment or level advancement represents a ridiculous amount of mastery. It is not comparable with having gone to martial arts class for a year. I'd say a level advancement is more comparable to joining the military and completing special forces training, one level. One level advancement is comparable with someone without any skill to becoming Matt Easton. Just one level. But DnD characters compound on that which results in becoming small gods at level 20.
There's one more thing to consider: The effective range and favored targets change a lot:
A katana is shorter than a longsword but has it's centre of percussion close to the tip, whereas in a longsword the first 15% of the blade are pretty useless for cutting.
Comparing a club to a sword it gets even worse. You'll probably mess up edge alignment and hitting with a club is very different movement than performing a cut.
Similarly. you aim for very different targets. The same can be said just looking at blades:
You can thrust into the skull with a rapier, but not with a broadsword.
You can chop into a skull with a kukri but not effectively with a dagger despite similar length and weight.
You can cut with a rapier mostly at forearms, neck and back of the legs, whereas with a sword you can cut pretty much any part, though some are far more efficient than others...
Visit Broadsword.you to learn more
5:57 your guards are all wrong... they are "porta", door. Not "posta" (mail/post)
Adaptive proficiency definitely works for musical instruments.
Oh man, now I want to see two experts in just a weapon duel but using eachother's weapon of choice.
It would be a pain as someone who tried applying kendo skills to a saber and it was a fucking pain
It would be a pain as someone who tried applying kendo skills to a saber and it was a fucking pain
I in turn have seen a historical catana fencer trying kendo for the first time. Catanas themselves dont have that much mass, but when they gave him a bokken he was happiest person ever, having a blade that litteraly weighs nothing.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fearless_(2006_film)
There's a scene were the katana user and the hero using a three-sectional staff trade weapons. The hero is able to adapt pretty quickly to the katana as he's used Dao's earlier. The samurai clonks himself in the head. Which having (tried to) used a three-sectional staff, is very realistic.
Quite funny.
With using a different a weapon skill?
This is something I like about Kingdom Come, it has separate skills for swords, axes and maces, but also a "warfare" skill which is meant to quantify your general battle experience, your footwork, your ability to read the opponent's movement and so on.
On the katana/longsword comparison, as someone who has worked with both I can say that a katana wielder would be significantly hampered using a longsword for 2 reasons: different guard, and different length. Katanas use a disc shaped tsuba vs a straight crossguard. The projecting quillons can actually get in the way of some katana techniques. Also, the general rule for a katana is that the blade should not touch the ground when gripped at the tsuba. The average longsword is at least 6-8 inches longer. That additional length can be a mixed blessing, affording added reach, but also decreasing maneuverability, relatively speaking.
Surprisingly, I've found katana and messer to be more compatible. The nail on the messer guard provides protection on 3 sides, more equivalent to the katana's disc guard, and the blade length is typically closer.
Luke Diehl Also, you cannot comfortably put your thumb on a blade on a katana. Also the differences in balance would not be ideal, but I don’t think it would be too bad.
Nicolas Hanslik no but u do stand a chance i have used both as well and he does rise good points but there is middle ground but the problem with that your still damn limited by good bit....but it not like the parry dagger and belt knife deal lol
@@NH-xg1cp there are katanas with no guards btw, so you can easily place your finger at the blade
@@Stre79 true yeah but when using typical examples
Like what katana techniques? I don't know any katana techniques that could possibly be disrupted by crossguards
"knifes are not swords technically" "i love my kriegsMESSER" :>
i always see that you can always go down in complexity easier.
for examply you hand a mace to a guy who is proficient with an axe, he'll know precisely what to do with it, doesn't work quite that well if you go the other way.
similarily, anyone who is proficient with any melee weapon is going to have an advantage over someone who has no training, simply because of all the things that have nothing to do with the weapon, such as the abillity to guage distances.
A mace is the easiest weapon to use, if you ask me.
Hold the light end, make the heavy end hit the opponent very fast, and congratulations, you can fight with a mace.
not that easy...remember its rare to get in a quick 1 hit finish in martial arts so u need to learn recovery with the mace and quick follow-ups
No one's gonna take you seriously bro, because I was waiting for you to say "I used to be a adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee"
I always loved the mace as a weapon simply because... there's really no wrong way to hit a guy with a mace , sure there're more effective and efficient ways, but no "wrong" way
Stabbing someone with a mace can be argued as the "wrong way"
Jackie chan translates his weapon proficiencies to other weapons all the time. Like ladders...and revolving doors...and chairs...and steering wheels
Watching the falchion versus Talwar makes me feel instead of splitting weapons into weapon classes it would be more sensible to split them into combat styles, for example, drawing, hewing, thrusting, binding, one handed (Balanced), One handed (Top heavy), Two handed (Hilted) Two handed (Hafted) and so forth, with some weapons having better scaling in certain attributes than others if they have any at all.
That's actually genius
Request: You often see depictions of kids or terrible soldiers wearing pots and pans and colanders and using kitchen utensils to fight. Can you analyse these things and see how effective they actually would or wouldnt be?
Don Quixote fighted with a barber's basin as an helm. I don't think it has ever worked for him.
Well, an iron pot would be uncomfortable and have no padding to soften blows, so concussions would be really easy to get. They'd also be a loft softer, and possibly thinner, than a properly made steel helm, while also lacking all the benefits of a curved shape to deflect blows. A fairly square strike with an axe or hefty sword might even be able to cleave through a pot like that, under idea circumstances. Ideal for the attacker, that is
I got the notification and honest to God thought he was talking about the RPG-7 and the first thing that went through my head was "Soviet heavy weaponry is a bit out of character for Skall"
Yeah, that Indian blade would be quite difficult to use for a practitioner of more traditional swords -- you're deprived of some of your best moves, namely unscrewing the pommel and ending thine opponent rightly.
OBJECTION!!!
Overruled. Prosecution, please continue.
I thought Pommel Throwing was for Defense?
Miguel de Lima I think it's for use on horse in high speed, so not letting your sword slipped out much concern
It’s been 4 FUCKING YEARS!! STOP WITH THE POMMELS!!!
Heard the word "games", and then the music and the game weapon sounds, and my half asleep self for a moment felt like I was actually about to play an online medieval themed game XD
lifeisfeudal.com/
D&D is actually worse than most systems, in this regard. (I play D&D, so I would know.) In D&D, they lump various vastly different weapon types together. For example, a glaive (the polearm, not the shuriken thing) and a greatsword both fall under martial melee (and in D&D, if you have martial weapon proficiency, you can use them ALL), yet you have no penalty to either one being used.
To be fair, the D&D weapon proficiency represents training with all the weapons in that category. Ofc, that makes no sense, particularly with Barbarians.
Yeah, but another example of that is glaive vs longsword. You wouldn't expect someone to know how to use a polearm if they are trained in the use of a longsword primarily.
Weapon proficiency represents basic proficiency. You know the basics of the weapon and its techniques. You can use it with a basic level of competency. Weapon specialization and weapon focus feats represent further training with a particular type of weapon. YMMV on whether the assumptions about skill levels involved here make sense.
Part of the mythos of the Fighter class is "trained in all simple and martial weapons". They are experts in combat. Barbarians having that makes less sense...
Exactly what I was going to say. These proficiencies are so wide open and vague because they're supposed to represent a very basic training with all kinds of arms. Which I find pretty believeable, for a lowly foot soldier to know just the basics of swords, polearms and shields. Showing mastery with a very specific type of weapon is a whole other thing.
One thing to remember is that proficiency with certain weapons can aid with others in abstract ways.
Even if you're a rapier master and have to use a katana, while youre not versed in properly executing the slashing strikes required to make a katana a great weapon, you do have hand-eye coordination and exceptional footwork. No matter what sword you're using, having an understanding of spacing and footwork is a broad skill that applies to nearly all swords, even if its in different ways. Much like a sai user might not understand how to use a large, single edge'd hunting dagger well, they still have the skills and understanding required to get into striking range, as well as the coordination for landing blows.
So while its definitely true training in one particular weapon doesnt mean another will be very effective, it does mean you will have a lot of the required mechanics to adapt. Infinitely more so than a person with absolutely no training in that weapon at all.
I wonder how far this logic goes. Like, suppose you take the 2018 HEMA rapier champion who's never picked up a katana or any sort of dedicated-cutting weapons before (kinda unrealistic, I know), but has trained on the rapier for thousands of hours. And you put them up in a katana-only duel against an intermediate kenjutsu practitioner who's spent a few dozen hours on their specific weapon. I wonder who has the advantage?
I would say the rapier user, simply because in a real fight scenario, experience is one of the larger deciding factors in a fight, the other being luck.
look at it this way, who would win? a guy with a knife, and a decent amount of training in it, or a championship level medium weight boxer?
i would personally say the boxer, because if you can control spacing, you can control your enemies effective options for engagement, if you limit the avenues of attack, it becomes easier to predict them, and maneuver them into a position advantageous to yourself.
I feel like, in such a high-stakes scenario as a unarmed-boxer-vs-knife-wielder fight, I don't know if I would bet on the champion boxer. Every punch the boxer lands might cause a nasty bruise, but every strike the knife wielder lands might cause death. You know what I mean? It's like trying to play chess against a champion, but with the extra rule that the champion will lose if you manage to take a single piece.
You vastly underestimate the power of a fist. A single punch from an expert boxer could definitely knock you unconscious, and only a few could kill you.
You're right, I don't know much about boxing. I still feel like, in the few fights I've seen on TV, the fighters tend to land at least a few dozen hits on each other before one goes down, no?
I feel like the knife fighter still has a significant chance of landing a single hit on the boxer. And if the hit is somewhere important, like between a pair of ribs or in an artery, the boxer would die shortly after "winning" the fight unless he gets immediate medical attention.
Whole video is false. Jackie Chan had fist proficiency and yet he could fight with a ladder, a chair and a sawhorse without any penalties.
Choked on my moutain dew laughing
Yeah he is a master in improvised weapons.
basically we need a "Footwork" skill more than anything loool
I don't drink Mountain Dew or eat doritos. What should I get instead? Salted pork?
Big Brother Cashews and mead.
KaiserAfini
Of course. I have salted and honey glazed cashews already and some mead on the rack, so why didn't I think of it before?
You said there is a difference between bo and quarterstaff. Since these are quite the same weapons could you elaborate about the difference in fighting techniques?
bo staff is a bit longer, and i believe heavier
I think it's actually the other way around, in fact it's not uncommon for a bo staff to have a slight bit of flex to it. The main difference in use is in the grip though - a quarterstaff is held near the end, while a bo staff is more often held towards the middle (though there are strikes that use the full length of the staff)
A Bo is a long, fast, light and flexible weapon to poke and cause pain not serious damage.
A quarterstaff is a heavy, short, slow and hard rod to hit and break bones.
Ok, let's clarify:
- Quarterstaff is 1.8m or more and typical bo is about size of the wielder. So quarterstaff is either as long as a bo, for example when used as a walking stick, or longer when used specifically as a pole-weapon.
- Both, 1.8m long, will have diameter about 3cm and will be made of a hardwood. Hardwood has similar weight, no matter if it's ash, oak or hickory. Tournament bo, which can weight less than 1kg should not be even considered as a weapon, it's light to look nice and flashy in kata competitions.
These are the same, very simple weapons. There is really no point in looking for differences here ;)
The one thing I like in D&D 5e, any class can use any weapon. I actually had a human sorcerer use a shortsword instead of a dagger. Reason is, my guy was of the Noble background, and most Nobles aren't going to use a knife in a fight - they use swords! Granted, I lost the proficiency bonus, but since shortswords have the Flexible trait I could still use my dexterity modifier for my attacks. Of course, as a magic user, with like 23 hit points (+8 temporary hp, due to my Inspiring Leader feat) and a 15 AC (My guy was of the dragon bloodline subclass) I was rarely in the front anyways, so I barely used it for combat, and it was more for flavor, but it's still something.
In fact, there's a story somewhere about a magic user, who didn't have any mundane weapons, who upset some tough guards, only to discover real quick that they were out of magic, and tried to run away, only for them, and their party, to get trapped in the room. The party decided to fight the guards, but the magic user kept running in circles, not trying to attack (why they didn't use cantrips, I don't know). Some members of the party were like "Take my back-up weapon so that you can fight!" but he was like "No thanks! Can't hit with those!" to which others were like "Be better than nothing!" I think they got rid of him for his exceptional foolishness.
Man. I don't know if there's anything nerdier than breaking out a damn GURPs book and I'm so here for it
uuh biomechanics he said... SEE MUM I AM LEARNING HERE !
im 26 and lving alone btw....
3 seconds ago 1 view
1 minute ago 30 view
Well then..
16 minutes ago, 50 views.
26 minutes ago, *1,998* views.
What.
I've noticed this before, even saying 28 views when in reality it has thousands.. might be youtube using people's desire to see videos before others to get them to click.. not sure though
Then there's the videos that have about three times as many likes as they have views.
There are a lot of weird things RUclips does with viewcounts soon after videos are uploaded, mainly with the intent of preventing bots from making videos seem more popular than they actually are
Imagine how someone used to rapiers would feel if they had to use somethink like a sweihander. Or vice versa really. That could be a cool dueling video. Two specialists swap weapons.
I know this video is old, but it is really awesome! I really want to get into tabletop roleplaying!
Now I've been always a videogame player, and some RPGs I can remember that impemented something similar to this have been:
Final Fantasy II = You level up your skills rather than your character, which was pretty cool and IMO felt more realistic than the standard leveling system... I mean just kill a million wolves and then you'll be able to kill a cosmic horror... doesn't make sense, but with enough skill, even luck, basically anyone can defeat a stronger more trained warrior.
World of Warcraft (vanilla to WOTLK) = Your class had access to specific type of weapons, you could even learn to wield a different kind of version not standard for your class but you could go to the weapon master to learn how to use it and then you had to skill up your weapon skills, under-leveled weapon meant you would miss a lot and hit weaker, which helped a lot in immersion
Final Fantasy XI (yeah another MMORPG) = Kinda similar to WoW but in this case you could basically use weapons suited for your class, and had to skill up otherwise you would miss a lot and hit weak, also your class had weapon rankings that determined which was the max skill level you could level your weapon to (for example a Dark Knight could skill up Scythe to max level, followed by 2 handed sword, but if you wanted to use a single handed sword your max skill level was really underwhelming)