StarCraft Knowledge Bites - Damage & Attacking
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Everything about damage-related stats in StarCraft in one place.
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I made some mistakes in the video (sorry!)
- I mistakenly said that Splash Air is like Splash All: It should've been "like Splash Enemy"
- I forgot to mention Splash Air always deals full damage to one unit closest to center of the hit, even if it would not be within the inner radius
- Like many of you mention in the comments, I should have clarified that 'HP fractions' aren't actually floats but rather 1 HP visually = 256 HP in-engine. Regens and some spells operate on this as well (ie Zerg HP regen = 4/256 per frame, Protoss Shield regen = 7/256 per frame)
- I forgot to mention the smallest possible damage dealt by a single attack is .5 (128/256). However, if we're above that threshold, it is possible to deal smaller fractions (+0 Ghosts deal 1.75 damage to +1 Armor Valkyries, as an example)
Shield armor can also reduce damage to any positive amount. For instance, a +1 muta hits some protoss units and the third bounce hits a unit with +1 shields. It deals 10/9 - 1 = 1/9 damage (rounded to the nearest 256th). But upgrading shields to +2 will increase the muta damage to 0.5. Just an oddity in the damage formula.
Don't apologize for your accent, you sound perfect to a community that gets excited when hearing "SCIENCU VESSU!!!!"
Trust me man. There are plenty of people who will watch these vids. Remaster casts are still very popular and these will be too. Keep going
i actually had no idea that weird case with shield and health armor existed, that's crazy.
i think there's only really 1 key thing you did not mention in this video, and that is what happens when a unit's damage would get reduced so much that it would either technically not do any damage at all or would do less than 1. in that case, afaik this is how that works:
--the memory locations for the game that stores a unit's health has 1 bit that determines if the unit has "0.5" health or not. whenever that situation occurs, it flips this bit, so changes it from 0 to 1 or from 1 to 0. any time it changes from 1 to 0, the game then subtracts 1 health from the unit. however, this bit is also ignored when a unit's actual health drops to 0. so it can technically have "0.5" health, but still die. and also because of this, a unit also cant do 0 damage, due to the way the damage calculation works it's always assumed that the amount of damage to be dealt being 0 is just a number that was too small to represent as an integer and will always flip this bit-- see Nekron's reply
interestingly, another weird quirk related to death is that death is actually an order the game automatically issues to a unit when its health drops to 0. because of this, if for whatever reason a unit is unable to receive this order (afaik not possible in the game without hacking), it will actually become immortal.
same here!
Oh man I was going to mention minimum damage alongside independent damage, no idea how I forgot. I totally should have this whole thing peer-reviewed lmao. Thanks for bringing it up!
It's not quite right that there's a bool for 1 or 0 damage I'm fairly sure, health is just rounded by the ceil() C++ method (except HP less than 1, in which case it's rounded to 1) . You can test this a bit with regens, but my biggest example would be to check out something like Ghosts vs +1 armor Valks - you can see them deal 2, 2, 2 and then 1 which I feel like would be hard to explain f we had to flip a .5 switch one way or another; they deal 1.75 damage each attack. (So Valks go 200->198.25->196.5->194.75->193.0, displayed in order as 200->198->196->194->193)
@@UEDAIP looking into it now i cant find much of an original source for my claim so not sure where i got the information from. the death thing is something i have personally experienced, though. once upon a time there use to be hacks that would max out the limit to the total amount of orders that can be executed in a single game frame at once, and in doing so it would make units unable to die.
@@UEDAIP I recently heard that the final mutalisk glaive bounce can be reduced to 0 damage through armor upgrades.The final bounce of an un-upgraded mutalisk does 1 damage, and any unit with armor would have at least 1 armor. I anecdotally have seen a plagued science vessel with 1 hp remaining hit with the final glaive bounce of a mutalisk and it didnt die. Is this true or is there something else going on here? Is this in any way different from something like fully upgraded ultralisks taking a hit from un-upgraded marines or un-upgraded zerglings?
Nice video mate, good as always, don't give up!
Speaking of spells and damage, 2 things popped in my mind:
- What's the total damage of a Battlecruiser Yamato cannon, and does it ignore armor? Because if my memory serves me well I could damage units with 255 + 255 armor with Yamato in a custom map
- How nukes work and how much damage they do? It's weird how it can deal more than 1000 damage to a structure but it cannot bring down a full hp BC. Also, unless am going senile, burrow also reduces the damage of nukes?
Thanks!
- Yamato deals 260 Explosive damage; it does not ignore armor
- Nukes deal whichever's highest between flat 500 damage or 2/3rds of the target's HP+Shields, - armor (and - splash radius %dmg reduction further away from the middle). This damage is Explosive.
- Burrow does have some interaction with splash, but I think it just makes them unaffected by the furthest radius? Not 200% sure on this though
Great video, you have the best RUclips channel for learning about these kinds of in-depth details about StarCraft. Thanks for the educational content!
Thanks a million! Just having someone explain the rules of the sandbox makes the game seem so Much less daunting
Amazing video! Thanks for sharing your knowledge 🙏
I wish the UMS Map Editor had the level of detail your client has. I guess there must have been some version of your editor as there were some crazy maps out there back in the day.
This editor is SCMDraft, it's publicly available but kind of tough to get running - requires MPQs to work that Blizzard no longer distributes, though they were included with early versions of SCR
Please don't feel like you need to apologize for your accent - I find your speech perfectly intelligible. Really appreciate these deep dives into Starcraft. How do you get access to the code (e.g. at 1:23)?
This is a snippet from PyICE, part of PyMS - a Python suite used for SC modding
@@UEDAIP Does it mean we could have an enhanced BW version ? (spores deal more damage to organic units, better Scout, etc)?
Are those parameters part on the map settings or are they embedded in the code?
@@yyyy-uv3po Anything that requires changing damage flags (organic) is already modding or possibly EUDs if that happens to be possible, can't be done with just classic mapmaking. But yeah, you could have a mod that changes those things - Scouts and Spores are changed in UEDAIP, though UEDAIP is a very "heavy" mod that deviates a bit from normal StarCraft.
Great video man!
Don't worry about your accent tho. It's not like there's anyone else spitting in-depth knowledge about StarCraft anyways 😅
Thank you so much for these. I've been following BW for such a long time, but I basically never play it. I *can* play it, but I never even laddered until SC2. These videos are fantastic. I've always wanted to know more about the guts of BW. It's a truly fascinating game - for both planned and unplanned reasons, it seems.
Some people say burrow makes units immune from certain splash damage radius. Is it true?
How do burrow and dark swarm(alone and together interact against splash damage?
And certain objects afaik can act as cover so less chance of getting hit does it stack with a higher ground miss chance?
This damage topic could get a second video.
Happy 2024!
It will be great if in the next video, you make your voice more loud and music less loud. I liked the vid^)
Thanks for the English language content. Broodwar will never die and now is a great time to pick up the game.
Very interesting video. Keep doing what you doing!
Really enjoy your videos, always interesting insights. Thanks!
D3signed by alienss jahhahahha thats early designers for haya
5:53 Defilers also have concussive damage, but their weapon is not assigned to them😢.
Give that bug a gun!
RUclips deleted your hostile response.
repeat it please.
Do the flags mean you could modify standard attacks to check for organic/mechanical/etc?
That would really opens
up for some interesting mods.
@@HasekuraIsuna It'd finally let people test out modifying Spore colonies to do bonus damage to Bio.
Love your videos
Your accent is perfectly fine :)
Don't worry about the accent dude I understood everything!
Hi Nekron, I have a question related to Starcraft Blizzard's AI.
Do you know which AI bugs were added in versions 1.10 and up? I think the most famous one is the SCV construction bug introduced in 1.11b. AI won't finish building if the constructing SCV is killed during construction. I also heard about the BW Zerg AI passive bug on islands maps that is present in 1.10 and up. There are others related to BW Terrans, such as not building turrents in expansions or not researching Siege mode versus Terrans.
Are there any more bugs? Is the AIs defense code messed up? I noticed that they would always send a couple of units at a time to defend their bases, even though they have more.
Thank you.
Hey, sorry but I didn't track pre-1.16 bugs so I don't really know which bugs appeared when that granularly. I think many of the melee bugs (the Zerg one you mention or Terrans) were just always there though, we recently rewrote building placement code and it's apparent that some of this stuff happens just because of certain base shapes, sizes etc. I tested early BW and SC builds and almost all AI bugs I could think of were still there.
AI sending only a couple of units to defend in campaigns is intentional design and is specified in the script. But on top of that, in StarCraft remastered they actually added two bugs, one of which messes up defense and another that makes AI hang up for a very long time if it cannot immediately build something it requests (for example wants a Dropship but doesn't yet have Starport with Control Tower); normally SC AI is supposed to 'juggle' (temporarily ignore) requests, so many AIs are very imperfect when it comes to timings etc. Which makes AI generally terrible in Remastered without mods
@@UEDAIPThanks for answering.
I had Melee/Custom AIs in mind when I mentioned the poor defense. The AI scripts FAQ mentioned how Campaign AIs have intentional reaction delays, so I already knew that.
But, that might be just because the AI has poor macro after the initial push, so it looks like they're sending few units at a time. The SCV build bug wasn't present before 1.11b. What happens is that AI is trying to repair the building, instead of sending the SCV to resume building. Which obviously doesn't work on an unfinished building, so the AI gets stuck.
Maybe the most obvious bug is when Terran AI ignores Siege Mode. That basically makes Terran mirror matches a joke in BW. I really can't believe that passed the testing. Original Terran AI is working as God intended, though. It's only slow to upgrade. OG will wait till Ghosts and only then upgrade Infantry armor and get Stim Packs. The latter is understandable, since there are no Medics in Original.
If you haven't noticed yet, I'm really into this stuff.
You said that units with Splash Air can only deal inner radius damage to at most 1 unit. Does this include the targeted unit? So for example, if a corsair attacks a perfectly stacked group of 5 mutas, you mean that only the targeted muta will receive 100% damage, and the other 4 mutas will receive medium radius 50% damage?
iirc the target you aimed dont get any dmg at all if it isnt closest to valkyrie missile. While the other target that IS hit by it gets 100% + 50% dmg.
Edit: This should mean in stacked mutalisk case the target you aim will die last.
Edit2: noticed you mentioned sair not valk, but its probably the same case except sair attack dont miss intended target.
yeah this information is beyond me, ill just continue to 4 pool my way up to D rank
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that Starcraft does not handle damage fractions in a normal sense, instead the 1 hp on the screen equals 256 hp in game engine. So, the minimum damage difference between two attacks can be 1/256. But the minimum damage a unit can take is 0.5 hp (128/256 game engine hp). This is why an attack of 1 against an armor of 255 will remove 1 hp in UI with every two shots.
The answer to your question lies within.
You mentioned that minimal damage unit takes is 0.5 hp. As a result any unit will loose 1 hp in 2 attacks despite attack/armour ratio.
I did not write an explicit question, but the implicit question is whether my knowledge is right on the 1/256 resolution of HP. The second part was just some interesting addition which does not contradict my understanding of how HP is handled nor when it is "normal" fractions. Sorry for the confusion.
Ok, but I think it would be weird to add 256 fractions system while simultaniously hard-coding minimal damage as 0.5.
However it might be just a quirk of an old engine.
@@Anubis1993KZ Maybe not that weird, 256 fraction system helps to deal with integers instead of real fractions, and a minimum damage system seems independent from that.
You are absolutely right, Health (and energy, shields) is actually parts of 256. I explain this a little better under TemplarFreak's comment as well, sorry for missing it in the video! I wish I could correct it now but I think it's really hard to edit stuff into an existing video x.x
lurker double damage bug?
Dying Lurkers deal double (or more, to large units) damage - because normally they have a special check that prevents spines from damaging a target more than once, that gets removed if the projectile is still alive but the Lurker is dead.
Well that's fun!
@@UEDAIP to my experience the lurker deals normal damage and double on every spikes throw on death animation . first will deal 20 for exemple and the next 40 and then 20 and so on until the last spike
.,.
Nice video, but please drink a glass of water and dont talk with a dry mouth, makes it rly hard to listen to.
Now do you understand why people like sc2?
there is a scene for both games.