CAC Grading Launch Day - How Will They Perform in the Coin Market?
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- Опубликовано: 9 окт 2024
- mediumrarecoins IG page: / mediumrarecoins
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Ben The Coin Geek
Old Pueblo Coin
aestetic is definitely part of what holds ANACS back
I find it a rare occasion when competition does not improve the market especially for consumers.
I feel that modern ANACs submissions are fairly graded, if not a shade graded tougher than PCGS/NGC in the last year or so.
The “blue holder” era of ANACS, dock a point or two off of the grade on the holder in most cases.
The soapbox era, I’ve been fortunate enough to cross any of those over I’ve submitted to NGC and they all upgrded - one by 2 points even from 62 to 64!
ANACS is a good grading company overall, in my opinion, but agree with Ben that it doesn’t get the market recognition and prices that NGC or PCGS will command due to primarily marketing/marketing position and past era grading consistency.
I'm an NGC guy myself....I don't own a single PCGS. Is mostly because I just like the holder better than PCGS so now that I've got all NGC holders....I've just stuck with them. Probably get a PCGS graded coin soon tho.....and maybe I'll end up liking them, who knows.
I am happy to see another grading company . I also like anacs as well I think it is better for the industry to have options
Anacs 🎉
If you have a high dollar coin, would you rather have it in a CACG holder… or a PCGS holder with a CAC sticker? I would rather have the holder that has a proven history of desirability, with a second level of assurance that it meets the grade. I think the marketplace will ultimately agree.
Time for pcgs stickers on cac slabs.
Imagine 😂
Nice in depth analysis on the psychology of CACG.
Hopefully, the competition from CACG will "inspire" NGC and PCSG to improve: a. their return time from submission. b. tighten their grading standards.
I honestly believe that PCGS will remain the #1 grading service. PCGS is very advanced with technology. They do have a few wrinkles here and there. I think that all the hubub about CACG is due to the fact that JA helped start the other grading services. I am one of the people who think they made a big mistake only allowing investors to submit with the soft opening. They could have done a raffle or something random. This is definelty being noticed by collectors. Is this another grading service that will be acquired for a small fortune if it succeeds?
Definelty food for thought and none of it negative.
All in all I do wish them well and I hope theu do succeed.
Hi Ben. Based on a lot of comments, it would be great if you could explain the difference between the two CAC services. There just seems to be a lot of confusion. I think it stems from the fact that a lot of people think if a coin does not sticker that it is overgraded. They think a CACG graded coin would automatically sticker. I say NO. A coin can still be properly graded, but not be above average for the grade. According to CAC, over 50% of the coins do not sticker. CACG will also have to grade those coins. The two services are achieving completely different goals IMO. It would be great to hear your opinion. Maybe something you could address in one of your question and answer segments. Love the content. Cheers!
Thank you Ben!!
I really like PCGS + CAC. I like the PCGS holder much better than the CACG holder. I also, like the idea of having two different “company eyes” looking at the coins and rendering an opinion. I think CACG will do just fine, but I must say, I found the constant refrain from John Albanese about saving customers shipping costs as being the largest catalyst for starting the company as very odd. I would’ve thought this would be mentioned as a small benefit and the focus would be something like we feel we have the best expert graders, our holder is the industry best, this offers consumers another option for grading, but not saving $20 for shipping.
I still haven't figured out if CACG will grade coins that they would not sticker but still make the grade, like what they would call A or B coins.
The key to success for higher profit in the coin grading industry is for grading companies to come up with new and more specialized coin slab stickers that show that someone's slabbed coin is better than the other guy's similar slab coin. Release limited editions of neato looking slab stickers indicating that a slabbed coin is better than the rest of the population could help generate millions of dollars from the coingeek collector market.
I like the idea if for nothing other than competition. It's going to be good for consumers... or at least as good as any grading company can make the market
I bought a CACG common-date Morgan in MS65 for $180 at auction. I think it's a nice mid-grade example: no more and no less.
It appears that CACG photographs all its coins, like NGC does, but the photos are overexposed and washed out. My coin looks better in the photos than it does in hand.
I'm willing to buy more CACG slabs, if I can get a good deal at auction. The slabs are pretty hot right now.
You mean mid grade mint state, not mid grade.
Hi, Ben. I will buy coins in the new CACG holders with confidence that the grade will be respected by others. However, I do not like the thickness of their new holder. I think a smaller holder would be better. Will CACG be "conserving" coins?
I prefer NGC holders, happy with their grades, I'm sticking with them. Thx
The lack of membership access is the part that bothers me. CAC is like the old boys club. And new collectors aren't welcome.
Agreed
Left in the cold brrrrrr brrrr
I totally agree they don’t want my little 250 coins nor am I in there tax bracket so I can’t sit at there table
Too early to know. They were just doing a soft launch. Also, they are small in comparison to PCGS or NGC. It will take time.
@@don951 true story
Completely false. It’s had nothing to do with who you know or how much money or influence you have. It all comes down to when you applied for membership. As a small time collector myself and my friend MNGA were accepted as members in 2019 and 2020 respectively. After that they were filled to capacity
They aren’t “freezing you out” as you say but you just simply missed the boat
PCGS should start a sticker they put on CAC coins if they think they make the grade 😂
I've been saying that for a year. PCGS and NGC should start a service to sticker other company's coins. Wouldn't that be funny if PCGS doesn't think a CACG coin should be stickered. 🤣🤣
@@JohnD357 yes it would 🤣
@@JohnD357 According to the stats more than half of the coins of a grade won't sticker. So it should be expected that would be the case for CACG graded coins as well. Just because a coin doesn't get a sticker doesn't mean it is not the grade.
@@don951 I agree. At the end of the day, if the sticker game is just to say that two companies have seen the coin and agree with the grade, then PCGS and NGC should get in the game.
I think it will be fun for you to have a 3rd (technically 4th) place to send your crack outs to. CACG will slide right in and bring the same money PCGS & NGC do. Some people will be thrilled others won’t care but most people will end up with coins in their holders eventually lol. Maybe they’ll open up the books someday and make a few more of us.
I agree I really wish Anacs would upgrade there holder to something a little more rounded . I loved there old blue holders but I can also see why they got rid of them the round bottom and top make it hard to set them up on a shelf .
Have you not seen the CACG "Advanced Delivery" Designation on the Silver Eagles slabs?
I personally don’t care what holder a coin is in, I just care that the coin is graded correctly and has great eye appeal.
I pretty much agree with you on everything you've said here. I don't really see CACG cannibalizing their own sticker business at all - a CACG graded coin would just strike me as being effectively a PCGS or NGC graded coin with a green CAC sticker on it. As for defectors from PCGS and NGC, I can't imagine anyone jumping ship from their preferred grading service generally, but if the coin and the price were right I know that I would buy a CACG coin as a PCGS slabbed coin collector because I know about CAC's and John Albanese's extremely good reputations, but I would still tend to pursue PCGS coins in general because of their reputation and the liquidity of their coins, and I think that overall they're the most stringent in terms of grading standards of the long established, top tier TPG services, and I prefer their holders aesthetically. I would probably prefer a PCGS holder with a CAC sticker, but if one weren't available and a CACG coin were, I'd probably go for the CACG coin.
CACg's "in" is going to be if they can manage turn around times better than NGC and PCGS. I dont see that the pricing and the market acceptance are that different to make them stand out. The quality of the early imaging doesn't help either
Does CACG accept non-USA coins? If its like the stickers where its USA coins only, I can imagine that leads to less hype for the new service.
Only time will tell. They will need to prove themselves. Once the initial hype is gone we will eventually figure out their value in the marketplace. I agree they should have stuck with what they know. Grading a bunch of modern coins MS70 looks bad. For now it is an interesting new idea in the hobby -- the slab collectors will be happy. Cheers!
CAC sent me a free coin about 6 weeks ago. Just a sample coin. But still a CAC graded coin.
I have several rock solid key date collector coins (e.g., 1913-s quarter in VG condition). The Greysheet indicates stickered coins like these are worth considerably more so I’ve been thinking that I should just send them to CACG and bypass PCGS and NGC. But the advice I’m getting from trusted dealers is go ahead and send them to PCGS/NGC because CACG just might give me a disappointing grade. Plus, I’m not sure the marketplace is actually getting the premiums on CAC stickered coins. What are your thoughts?
enough times has passed i dont think ill give anyone bad ideas but the main reason cacg cant be aloud in the regersty set yet or for a year or 2 is people would double dip on the same coin. crack out there top pop coins in the set and sell them to other registries people in cacg holders keeping there points but not owning the coin. ( not that the registries set is ment for any thing but showing off and for fun) so far im loveing the cacg coins.
ANACS needs to change their holders to resemble PCGS, NGC holders. Get rid of the curve. When you see an ANACS slab you immediately have a negative feeling before you even see the coin. Sometimes standing out in the crowd is not a good thing
True. Yellow holders are the worst idea ever
I wonder if coins submitted to CACG will automatically sticker if approved or we'll have to send it to NJ for stickering.
They can't sticker their own coins.
For me I will reference one of your previous postings about ANACS will CACG by default become the standard thereby pushing PCGS and NGC to tier 2 company and ulitmstely ANACS a 3rd tier grading company ?
That is definitely in the “time will tell” category. In the short term I think P, N and C will trade at similar levels with A behind .
I disagree a lot with Med-Rare Coins here. I think the CACG photos have proven to be on par with TrueView and whatever the hell NGC has (if you pay for them). One thing that bugs the hell out of me with NGC is the great pics don't show up in their registry or even cert lookups. IMHO, the lack of auto-loading, premium photos is the greatest separator between PCGS & NGC in the registry game. Yes at the very top, PCGS is typically stricter on the tippy-top pops. CACG can get a fantastic leg up (over NGC anyway) if they integrate their photography immediately into their registry.
Also, as I've said elsewhere, I actually like the ANACS slab.
I like the fact you can see the label from the top of the ANACS slab
Disappointed only cac dealers can submit.
Ben, you please do a current coin market video? Thank you. Having a hard time finding good inventory. Sales okay for me but waning
Yeah my sales have been a tad bit slow on eBay as well. I believe people will start buying once the Black Friday era comes around
@@JustinCase807 Thanks for sharing Justin. We”ll see with cold weather coming!
Do all CACG slabs come with built in green bean by default? What do they do with coins with lower eye appeal? Do these still get a grade based on technical attributes or net down due to ugly toning or other detracting marks? Or they only get details grade? I mean, how will cacg slabs with the bean logo affect people's response to a "real" sticker where they only receive them based on eye appeal or other more aesthetic merit??? If we find ugly cacg graded coins in market, and with the default bean logo, wouldn't that ruin people's perception on the green bean sticker or cacg logo? Or will cacg refuse to grade these less than ideal coins?
I have a weird feeling that CaCG coins are going to be on the Anacs tier of grading services. The "we grade coins correctly, but enough people want PCGS or NGC such that the demand is softer" tier. It would be hard on someone who wanted all CaCG holders in their collection -- very few of the coins would be out there and re-grading everything you buy would be pricey. If anything, that kind of collector (who is buying to crack) would be drawn to Anacs graded coins because you can get the same coin cheaper.
your nuts. just as their stickers enhance coin value so will their grading service.
@@ltcol2005 CAC stickers offer increased value because they provide a recognized second opinion about the quality of the coin. CACG does not do that at all. They offer the same exact service that the others do.
I'm kind of looking at NGC the same way as ANACS now. My recent experiences selling NGC graded coins is that they just don't sell for as much as PCGS examples. The same is true for ANACS, so why would I waste money on NGC grading? Maybe CACG will rival PCGS in the tier one category, whereas NGC and ANACS can fight it out as tier two graders. I'm waiting to see how it all shakes out before I consider buying a CACG membership, but I've discontinued auto-renew on my NGC account.
Very odd results because in south NGC does really well tho I have noticed lower graded coins don’t seem to do well in NGC holders but mint state coins move well in south
Great point. It seems higher end NGC coins will only do well with Cac approval. Washington quarters are a great example just look at the comps for Ms67 or Pf67-68 early dates without Cac approval compared to pcgs. They go for 30~50% as much
I agree that grading modern ms-70 bullion based coins isn’t going to help them short term, long term, wait and see.
Grading companies need to be considered in the numismatic markets they primarily serve. The coin market is really several markets. Some of those markets are at the higher end where seemingly small differences to some people are critical for others. CACG and ANACS matter most in their respective markets. They are less relevant or even irrelevant in other markets.
Can’t I just get a whole roll of these stickers made? Do they take pictures? If not I’m buying a roll of gold CAC stickers!
Just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in???
My thoughts are that cac should have started to do stickers for world coins this would help the brand grow and get more collectors involved for example i collect British milled and have graded coins i would like to get the cac approved but they inly do American coins 😢
Oh, the one thing I did want to say about ANACS... I know some like their slabs because of the curve at the top, and I appreciate that ANACS is doing something differently... but I haven't figured out why it's necessary, people should be able to remember what's in their own slabs!
Oh, as of right now... I'd rather have a PCGS slab with a sticker on it! I'm just bummed because they don't seem to accept SBA's for stickering... it's not popular, I get it, but the wide rims are over 40 years old and that should qualify in my opinion!
People should be able to remember what's in their own slabs....?
I mean, sure, if you only have 5 or 10 slabs...?
I only have one susan b Anthony coin its is pcgs proof69 deep cameo it really is a pretty coin it has gold toning it really makes the cameo pop I’ve had it for about 3-4 years in my 10 years of collecting im 24 now a nice wide rim would be nice to have in the collection i may look into it happy collecting
I liked the superbowl comparison. But who the he'll is buying 100000 dollar coins? I don't think those people watch videos on you tube
😢
When they allow little shrimpy collectors like me to send in coins, im going to send in just 1 really nice coin to get graded by them. When i get it back, im resending it to them for stickering 🤭🤣
If CACG becomes a top tier player over ANACS, then ANACS needs to stop grading. Then, re-open as a stickering company, then start grading after that.
Underrated comment
Walk the middle road, see how they roll out their grading; buy the coin, not the plastic, goodluck to them. Hopefully creates competition in the market.
I preach, buy The coin, not the slab, but I don't always do what I preach. We'll see how they do.
I had hoped the holders would fit with PCGS holders...That's it. Call me shallow.
Spiffy Spiff Macspiff . 379th😊
So does this mean all CACG slabed coins will be green beans, and none can be gold beans?
No. The two services are completely different. Sadly they chose to put a green bean on their label for brand recognition. However, it does not mean anything else. It has just added to the confusion it seems.
Hey Ben
🥇
Crazy part is the first coin graded by CACG was just at a coin show on consignment it was numbered 00001 so people are hunting those or they just had to start somewhere with a number because if it was random then the computer would have that coin a number of 000223 or so and that is why I don’t get my coins in anacs holders because they are not attractive at all but my issue with CACG is they are making it to hard get coins graded by them and they are not worth the money I found 1913 buffalo nickel in CACG holder that was listed for more then same coin in NGC coin one grade higher with CAC sticker on it I don’t know how you can justify that and most are CACG buddies and dealer friends getting coins graded and I am not in there tax bracket nor in there circle so they really don’t want my coins in there club see so I will stick with the Americans working class folks
I agree it was a Huge mistake to Certify bullion coins right off the bat. True there is money to be made there but man that hurts the brand in my opinion
Hallmark.
We all know they'll sell at a premium and the quality of the service is nearly irrelevant. I'm not saying they're gonna do a bad job, just if they did consumers wouldn't care unless it's egregious.
The grading of the bullion coins was both a marketing strategy and profit center. I'm pretty sure they needed a little fresh cash flow to get their motor running. Also, given that coins can only be submitted by members and member dealers, given the dearth of coin shops and accessibility to dealers is going to stunt their growth. CAC may have gotten a little over its skis but only time will tell.
What is worth the most amount of money, a coin graded by pcgs, ncg or a pcgs/ngc with CAC sticker? That being answered, logic would say a CAC graded coin holder would be equal to the sticker and skips the step of grading 1st with ngc/pcgs. If logic prevails. Yes sir, the man has no CAC.
I totally disagree. Because you still only have one opinion. The thing with the sticker is that you are getting a second independent opinion on where that coin stands. Is that coin better than average for the grade. With CACG they are only telling you their opinion of the grade, just like PCGS or NGC. You still will not know if it is in the upper half of coins for that grade without a another trusted party evaluating it. In the current market a PCGS graded coin w/ CAC sticker is the top dog IMO. Cheers!
@don951 opinions are like ASSHOLES, they all stink. You are paying for a subjective opinion no matter if it is pcgs, ngc, or CAC. Yes, that man has no CAC. The coun value market can be swayed by time and opinion and therefore this is an illogical argument. CAC is only taking the first opinion from out of pcgs, ngc and reducing the cost of insurance, mailing and the first grade with pcgs ngc. Unless, you initially submit to CAC first, crack out send to pcgs/ngc and then resubmit to Cac for the optimal price/grade. Logic and yes, That man has no CAC.
I agree 💯. Prefer a pcgs Cac coin over a one opinion Cacg coin
@@tylonnplatinumthe3rd659 I don't know what the best answer will be. Time will tell. I just don't want to be an elitist and say it has to be one way.
@@paulbegansky5650 If you don't like opinions and conversation about coins and the market you are in the wrong place. You said..."opinions are like ASSHOLES", Really? You do you. I was only responding to what you originally posted. Your response didn't address that or make any sense. Good luck.
I know I may be in a minority with my opinion, but I do not like the CACG slabs at all. They look cheap, and just unattractive. Anyway, I am one of those guys who have never really cared one way or the other about CAC stickers. I trust PCGS and NGC for graded coins, and both PCGS and PMG for notes. I wish CACG all the best, but I will not be buying any.
*FOURTEENTH*
😂
Greetings Ben - That comment about CAC grading is not accurate because of the fact that Greysheet publishes prices for CAC - ths to me means they are a widely respected grading company. I think that when CAC graded coins hit the market - they will bring perhaps more for similar coins graded by their counterpart's.. CAC is widely respected. Now when it comes to registry sets - I don't think high grade "registry" type coins will still go to PCGS and NGC - solely because it seems CAC is more meticulous or so it seems as opposed to PCGS and especially NGC. I think you get what my point is. Best Wishes always.
I personally think that all this hype about current bullion coins being graded MS7 - PR70 - first day of issue, etc. is ridiculous. I mean you have sellers - selling these so called perfect coins before they hit market is disconcerting - why buy them??? Best wishes
Hard to take them seriously with no world coins.
@mediumrarecoins was spot on with his analysis other then maybe them scratching easy. They seem more durable than all the others. The holder is ok but the font sucks and it just looks plain. You mentioned Anacs’s holder’s being a small drawback for them but I think it’s a Major drawback. Those god awful but ugly yellow n gray holders will never make it into my core collection sorry. Whoever is in charge of product development and marketing at Anacs should have been fired years ago
Overall I prefer a coin thats Pcgs with Cac certification over a CACG coin. Think about it wouldn’t you rather have a coin with 2 opinions on your coin then one
Anyways like he said I think they will be just fine in the long run
One more point Cac membership isn’t the good ol boys network it literally just comes down to when you applied. As a small time collector I applied in early 2020 and was accepted. Shortly after they ran out of open slots
I am not certain if I got anything out of that, but okay.