Why Discogs is No Longer Working for Me
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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Discogs (short for discographies) is a website and crowdsourced database of information about audio recordings, including commercial releases, promotional releases, and bootleg or off-label releases. While the site was originally created with a goal of becoming the largest online database of electronic music,[2] the site now includes releases in all genres on all formats. After the database was opened to contributions from the public, rock music began to become the most prevalent genre listed.[3]
As of 2 May 2022, Discogs contains over 15.1 million releases, by over 8 million artists, across over 1.8 million labels, contributed from over 628,000 contributor user accounts-with these figures constantly growing as users continually add previously unlisted releases to the site over time.[4][5] The Discogs servers, currently hosted under the domain name discogs.com, are owned by Zink Media, Inc. and located in Portland, Oregon, United States.[6]
The discogs.com domain name was registered in August 2000,[7] and Discogs itself was launched in November 2000 by programmer, DJ, and music fan Kevin Lewandowski originally intended to be a large database of electronic music.[8]
Lewandowski's original goal was to build the most comprehensive database of electronic music, organized around the artists, labels, and releases available in electronic genres. In 2003, the Discogs system was completely rewritten,[9] and in January 2004 it began to support other genres, starting with hip hop. Since then, it has expanded to include rock and jazz in January 2005 and funk/soul, Latin and reggae in October of the same year. In January 2006, blues and non-music (e.g. comedy records, field recordings, interviews) were added. Classical music started being supported in June 2007, and in September 2007[10] the "final genres were turned on" - adding support for the Stage & Screen, Brass & Military, Children's, and Folk, World, & Country music genres, allowing capture of virtually every single type of audio recording that has ever been released.
In June 2004, Discogs released a report claiming that it had 15,788 contributors and 260,789 releases.[11]
In late 2005, the Discogs marketplace was launched.[12]
In July 2007, a new system for sellers was introduced on the site called Market Price History. It made information available to users who paid for a subscription - though 60 days of information was free - access to the past price items were sold for up to 12 months ago by previous sellers who had sold exactly the same release. At the same time, the US$12 per year charge for advanced subscriptions was abolished, as it was felt that the extra features should be made available to all subscribers now that a different revenue stream had been found from sellers and purchasers. Later that year, all paid access features were discarded and full use of the site became free of charge, allowing all users to view the full 12-month Market Price History of each item.[2]
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as really a lot of you asked for it: We will give you Stuntrocks Confusions Text in our Lifestream on Wednesday, Stunti agrees to give it to you!!!
I was wondering what those magic words were. Thanks!
Give him our thanks, and a clean shirt!
@@lokitio Any examples for Michael afforementioned "dificult" attitude?
@@lokitio I'll wait to see the wording to voice an option on that. But if you thought this entire video was an example of being difficult you just might be excessively polite, and I'm Canadian.
@@lokitio Where is the wording? Has it been written down somewhere or is it in the Stunty/45 livestream video?
4 years ago I decided to only buy used records on discogs from japanese sellers. After that, I never had any problems anymore. Not the best option for buying UK originals, but japanese collectors always took good care of their records so, for me it works fine
That sounds like good logic, I may have to try the same myself.
They also tend to overrate the wear on the records. Very nice!
Agreed. Those japanese originals are incredible. Super silent.
@@bertroost1675 That's true, a japanese VG+ is better than most european or US records described as NM
Yes I’d go with that ! Most U.K. sellers seem to over grade and over charge. It’s infuriating as I’d be happy to pay a little more for a truly mint- album.
I will tell you this, GRADING has become a real problem with sellers on discogs in the past few years. I've sold 485 records on discogs since 2018, with 100% feedback. I am not sure if it's sellers really not knowing HOW to grade properly, if they are maybe BLIND, or just trying to RIP people off. Regardless, as a buyer and seller for 25 years, just FYI, there is a BIG difference between NM and VG+, and there are many people in the twilight zone that grade USED (OPENED) records as "MINT". Newsflash people, "MINT" doesnt really exist, even sealed records are never really mint. When I have compained about records not properly graded after purchasing them, I've actually had sellers say to me "well, it's 'mint FOR IT'S AGE'!!"
However old titles in near mint condition don't grow on trees, so please take this in mind. I would be in favour of Discogs using a category for sellers that grade conservatively and do this consistently. After years visiting shops and fairs I think I know something about condition. First of all sellers should communicate to you when asking for information. If you are selling your father's collection maybe first ask someone how to grade properly? A mint record has no hairlines nor any spindle marks. It does not matter whether the record was pressed in 1962 or in 1987. The criteria are exactly the same. Near mint is the highest grade possible unless sealed. Even a sealed record is open to fraud though as records in Europe for instance back then were not sealed by the companies.They could however be sealed by shops, department stores etcetera. I have read and heard about resealed records but I have personally never seen one.
@@robertkok5263 well said friend, bravo 🍺🍺🍺
Yeah, I'm bothered by the grading too. For me, M is simply sealed, but NM should be basically mint, though played a few times. I get a lot of records that are graded NM, but when I remove them from the sleeve, they are covered in fingerprints, hairlines and dust. For that reason alone, I don't even bother getting VG+ records anymore unless the description is clear about why they are graded that way.
I agree with your usage on Mint for only perfect sealed, and NM should be opened and essentially flawless. My huge issue with Discogs is the gap between NM and VG+ is too wide, a subjective grading abyss. I dont understand why Discogs doesn't include an EX grading. This is a crucial grade, having only VG+ to cover such a wide range of potential conditions, leads more people to list records as NM that actually aren't, and for very clean records to get lumped in with copies of considerably lower condition as VG+. I just dont see the downside in adding an Excellent grade, which is already widely used in many grading scales.
I suggest an EX petition!
@@headlessheroes551 well said my friend, agree. Keep on spreading the word, cheers
Discogs should track how many returns sellers have. A lot of sellers with 99% positive feedback probably have hundreds of returns for mislisting and overgrading records.
You can always send the Discogs seller a question in advance. Combined with their feedback rating, that should help. I’ve been buying for years and had one mistake.
They'll raise the price on you ....seeing you're interested!
Always ask for a photo when ordering from discogs. Many records are listed under the wrong pressing category because the discogs database was never intended for records that exist in 100+ different variations and the listers lose patience or simply get lost. The 2nd reason is - as is well known - that seller & buyer might disagree on the grading. Having photos might avoid at least some of these issues.
Regarding lost packages, I bought & sold via discogs & eBay and the number of packages that simply disappear was way higher than I anticipated. I eventually stopped, it's just too much hassle.
Discogs can be frustrating. My main problem is inaccurate grading. I order Near Mint on almost everything, so I am expecting beautiful vinyl. So many sellers rate vinyl and jacket at the NM level, but I am getting VG+ a lot. Everyone should have high standards for grading NM and not be too greedy for money. The only other complaint I've had is records arriving that have not been cleaned before shipping. Sellers, please have the courtesy to clean the records before shipping. Only one time in years, did a shipment go missing and I didn't blame the seller. because there was a tracking number. The shipping service lost the package. I still do quite a bit of Discogs business, because I look for the pre-digital music.
If it is a $10 record VG+ is okay if they said NM but if I pay $$$ then it is an issue.
@@bertroost1675 Right, that's the problem. They don't sell NM for $10. If I pay a high price for NM, I expect NM.
In case your not doing this, only buy from sellers with a 100 percent rating and then look if they have any negative feedback and read any neutral ratings they have. I have had very little problems and I buy a lot off discogs. Ive only had issues with warped records and being sent new pressing instead of first pressings because people are too lazy to look things up correctly. Discogs is a joke and has become over priced like ebay. Ive had to change the way I shop on Discogs in the last year. I also only buy within my country, which is really tough because there are about 20 records I want only available in the UK or Japan.
Most of my experience on Discogs has been ok. There is one segment I found very tricky, is anything from 90's to 2000's. These are ones that can easily be sold as OG, but will be sent as a more current pressing. You have to be VERY careful with those. I.E. Beastie Boys, Pavement etc. I just had a situation where I bought a 7" I discovered from Stunty, paid, and the guy has been sitting on it for a month because it's in "Payment Pending." The $ left my account the second I paid. I have 100% feedback and have been buying records on Discogs for a long time. He still hasn't sent it. 😡. I'd cancel it, but it's the only one I could find for sale, period.
Seems like finding these original pressings come with a whole new learning curve for you. The more you do it, you’ll learn who are the better sellers. That just comes with the experience of doing something new.
If I’m gonna be honest, I do like getting nerdy and finding the exact pressing that I have if any record. The best is having something not in the database and creating a new entry. Unfortunately, that is not the case with many sellers. Asking the right questions helps, and that can save you some time and trouble.
Plastic; For clarity he stated he has purchased over 800 records through Discogs in the past. Also when you run a business I shouldn't have to go through a "experience" process to ensure I will receive what I was listed.
@@whittierlibrarybookstore3708 ;so there is no learning curve when starting a business? When things are new or different there are going to be new things to learn.
And for clarity, I get that he has bought a lot of records on Discogs. However when he bought one type of record (ie: new or special pressings) he seemed to have a good experience, because it was easy to ID the pressing. However, Michael’s experience was diminished when he started looking for different kinds of records such as original pressings or specific older pressings. Because there are so many variants in these cases it takes more work to find that particular pressing. In the end it will be your knowledge and gumption that gets the right record.
I think that Michael wants a better rating system for sellers. The system they use now leaves things wide open on the quality of service you’ll receive. It would be helpful to get better data on a seller’s satisfaction rate. But that’s not happening soon. There for; as you or I make our way through different sellers, we will have good sellers and rotten ones. Clearly some of the sellers don’t know their records from their ass. You probably know more about a record being purchased than the seller in some cases.
Personally, I buy and have a successful purchase, I will buy from them again. If they get anything wrong, I don’t buy again. That’s how you learn who is a trusted seller and who isn’t. I agree that in the interest of running a thriving business it’s important to be accurate on your sale of goods. But as a buyer you won’t know who’s better until you get in there and actually buy and experience the highs and the lows. Making mistakes is still a big way that we learn, as long as they aren’t repeated. You should buy on your knowledge and experience, not the seller’s.
@@plasticsoundwavecult Yes, at the end of the day we are all looking for a better buying experience on Discogs. I replied to Michael directly with some Discogs suggestions.
@@plasticsoundwavecult You keep talking about "learning". What's to learn? I know what I want to buy and the original pressing has been detailed on Discogs own archive and a seller has marked his item for sale as per that same original listing. Yet, so many sellers fail at that first hurdle.
It's also a very long shot to suggest that just because a seller was able to supply exactly what was required in the first order that they can do that repeatedly with subsequent orders. I've never got past two orders with any seller, despite 400+ orders. Of course, I have returned to a "trusted seller" and perused their stocklisting, however, invariably they don't have what I'm looking for.
I think it was absolutely established from the start that 45 RPM Audiophile know what he was looking for. But if the seller is a rip-off merchant or simply clueless, it really doesn't matter how much knowledge any buyer has as he will be dealing with the impossible.
I have lost count on the number of times I have received a "Oh sorry about that, it must have slipped through our quality control net. Will you accept a £2 refund?" These shady sellers treat you like you had just sailed up the river in a banana boat.
@@apollomemories7399 I pretty much agree with your comment. There are plenty of shady sellers. Plenty of sellers that get it wrong. It seems to me that it was only when Michael started looking for Original Pressings that he started experiencing difficulties. Which I believe is not something he normally does. He’s usually looking for audiophile pressings. I’m willing to bet that we are talking about two different crowds of sellers. If you’re selling an audiophile pressing to a buyer, you probably know your clientele’s expectations. But to be on the level, I’m speculating, since I don’t specifically buy audiophile pressings. I’m assuming that someone dealing in a higher end product will have a store and experience with audiophiles.
The used market seems a bit less tame. You could be buying from someone I mentioned above, or some weirdo (like the guy that delays shipping because he’s worried Michael’s trying to flip the record). I can only speak on what I heard in the video, so I don’t want to speak for Michael. But it seems as if he has taken a new tact on his purchasing of the records when it comes Original pressings after getting some tips from Stunty at StuntRockConfusion. I believe that started the ball rolling on getting the pressing that he wanted narrowed down to a single seller. So if that’s correct, Michael gained new knowledge to hopefully make his experience better.
If there was only a word for that. 😜
Leverage your base of almost 28k subscribers. Make a list of all the original pressings you would like to get, and share it. Keep it updated with status (still looking, acquisition pending, OG successfully acquired). I'm in USA (San Francisco) and between record swaps, flea markets, buys from shops, I go through hundreds of vintage rock records each month. I'm sure there are a lot of collectors like me with access to US pressings who'd be willing to help out.
wow that may be a great thing thx collctrify
Hello collectrify,
a great push.👌
Michael can certainly use any support.
❤️Heike
It's a huge problem due there are a lot of ppl selling records without bringing any record-knowledge to this. Every time I want to buy an original copy I ask for pictures and of course to re-check the specifics. It prevented me approx 8/10 times from getting a copy I didn't want to buy. Japanese sellers are pretty great in most cases.
I'm really surprised by your experience on Discogs. Yes, I have experienced a few mis-grades, but not pressings from different countries like you had. Those sellers should have negative feedback so others would avoid or ask questions. I buy much more on Discogs than eBay but I do ask questions on both.
I buy only on EBay as sellers cannot risk a negative rating so if it is not exactly as stated, version or condition they will refund your money. It doesn’t happen often but when it does I give them to young collectors who aren’t as fussy as me as you never have to send them back.
Though in my experience it’s harder to find eBay sellers who give matrix or other specific pressing info. I can sometimes figure out specifics from the label and cover photos, but otherwise Discogs is often the only practical option.
@@xentakis It depends on what you collect, if it is mainstream rock, yes it is difficult as there was so many versions. But I find with jazz or blues the label and sleeve can give you most of the information you need. A RVG stamp or scribe and an ‘ear’ will always be shown!
@@xentakis yes, indeed.
@@asiandetective4998 Yes that is true. It is easier with jazz and blues.
You are spot on its getting really ridiculous the biggest problem I have continually had on discogs is extreme over grading of condition on original pressings and also first generation repress
I've come to realize that discogs has been overtaken by flippers not collectors and vinyl listeners
People really need to play test and not just visually grade
I agree with this completely. I won't buy a record for more than $40 unless it's from someone's personal collection, or if the seller has hundreds+ of ratings indicating that they know how to grade records. When someone grades a record as EX or VG++, or assigns a VG+ with writing on the label, then they don't understand how to grade records and I am accepting all the risk in the transaction.
I have actually had a lot of good fortune with VG records that were advertised as "conservatively graded" which tends to mean YMMV depending on your playback chain, and the seller understands the Goldmine rating system well enough to not give a VG+ rating based on the strict guidelines.
@@YuengsNwings it seems like especially in the last year the flipping has gotten out of control I use to have really good experiences with discogs but since this year started its been really disappointing
Oddly enough when I purchase from overseas through discogs the grading has been right on the money but for some reason american sellers even with high seller ratings have been a mixed bag at best
Flipping is destroying hi-fi prices too, especially in the retro / vintage market. Anything with a silver facia is now $$$$$$.
I keep telling people: broken shit is still broken, even though they don't make it any more.
As a U.K. Discogs seller Brexit was the killer for me, I have nearly 400 orders completed , 100% good feedback, but I stopped selling to EU as so many records were getting held up in customs. Sometimes for 5-6 weeks, not good for me as the records are usually quite expensive 1st pressings, It has a big impact on my sales, I’m not a dealer, I’m just a collector selling off a lot of my collection, it’s not difficult to properly grade a record and identify the version and release, Stampers and labels, cross check with the photos on the Discogs release page, I think a lot of people get lazy with cheaper records, why would anyone care if it’s a 1st 2nd 3rd of 4th pressing of Breakfast in America? They all look the same and cost about the same, but they do, it matters a lot, mastering will be different in most cases, quality of the pressing, it does matter and it’s not difficult. I have buyers that come to the U.K. on holiday from Europe and I ship to the hotel they are staying, I just ask them to write that in PayPal notes and also Discogs notes, and I ship to them next day delivery.
Sad to hear you are having these problems.
I stopped buying from the UK not only because of custom fees, but mainly because Discogs started charging VAT on used records, which is simply illegal, at least where I live. In case I bought new records, I would be forced to pay both UK VAT (as every seller normally lists his items with prices including VAT) and Italian VAT (which is a staggering 22%).
There are a few problems:
1. Since the data is crowdsourced and grows organically, you have the problem where the listings change over time and the listing is no longer accurate relative to when the seller added the item to their collection. I have this problem a lot for things I entered 10+ years ago, back then there was little to no pressing information on discogs at all, just label variations. So you'd add say a UK plum Led Zeppelin I to your collection and there was just a single listing. Come back a few years later and there are now 10+ listings for that record and the original listing got re-used for one of them (that re-used bit is the problem). So even users (like me) who tried to be accurate have had the rug pulled out from under them. Add on top of that sellers who are not motivated and just don't care.
2. The process of finding your pressing variation can kindly be described as "unpleasant". If someone is selling hundreds of records this is a hug incentive to either just not care or to do it incorrectly. And if they are selling hundreds/thousands of records how can the possibly do all this work at that scale, it's just not realistic.
Discogs can also be a cesspool of awful sellers, as you are discovering. Honestly the sellers cancelling your orders are probably doing you a favor. I'm not sure what Discogs can do about it, they could aggressively de-list sellers with negative feedback but then trolls would just de-list every seller. The feedback mechanism isn't a great solution either because if you leave negative feedback then the seller just does the same to you, which provides an incentive to not leave feedback. And I haven't even touched on grading, another huge problem not unique to discogs. If I were buying a $100+ collectable record I'd be conducting an interview with the seller before making the purchase.
This is why I laugh whenever someone says "don't buy a reissue, that OG is easily available for $10". Not unless you have a stack of them sitting at a local record shop.
spot on!!!!
If I am unsure I will ask the seller about confirming it is the pressing I want. I have never had an issue. I have only bought around 50 titles on my new ID. I bought probably another 50 before I got banned on my old ID for making a statement the owners didn't like under a certain artist.
i think people would be better going to shops, even if they are far away...
save your money and visit every few months and come home with a stack of records...
better yet if you have a local shop - get to know them , and let them know what you like, they will tell you when stuff comes in you want.
Online is a nightmare - and also, takes most of the fun out of the hobby for me. Theres nothing better than going digging and coming home with stuff you wanted for ages
I understand for this channel you want stuff to do videos... but for most of us , we can wait until we come across what we want
Hello Mark...,
absolutely brilliant comment from you.👌
❤️Heike
As a seller on Discogs I can honestly say that Discogs makes it hard to grade properly and sell in a professional manner. I have personally had many listings relabeled incorrectly as they are constantly "updating" the banks. This is because they let the sellers vote on if they think it is the same pressing which can often be subjective, This is because the people who are voting are just sellers who have been on the platform a certain amount of time and not necessarily experts. These types of decisions should be made by hired dedicated experts in my opinion but this is not the case. I have sent records out that were labeled by me personally as US pressings and Discogs updates it to Uk pressing without my consent or knowledge of them changing it. The only thing they do is send a message to your Discogs inbox which is under a mile of spam because they constantly seng you messages and you miss it. So now my customer in Japan is angry and wants his money back and rightfully so. I refund the customer completely but it doesn't send right away because PayPal sometimes puts a hold on this for a few days for whatever reason. They typically do not give you a reason for the hold. And it only happens on Discogs purchases and returns. I know this because I sell music equipment on Reverb and have zero issues with the platform. I completely lose out on these types of issues with international orders because I end up having to pay more than the Discogs shipping label quoted to send it and I have to eat the shipping cost for the return. I totally agree that Discogs does not work for anyone. While I would agree that some sellers are better than others I definitely also believe it's more Discogs fault than you may realize.
I feel your pain my friend, I’m in the U.K. Their is a dealer I’ve known since 1985 who still has a shop packed with vinyl, the owners name is Steve & his shop is called X-Records, it’s in a small town Bolton, Lancashire.
I am sure he can help you & he’s been doing mail order for years, he had a warehouse full of vinyl but I’m not sure if he still has it.
Hi Michael, I worked in a UK record shop in the 1980s and early '90s. Almost all UK Warner Bros and associated labels releases were manufactured in Germany. Perhaps this is why you got so many Germany pressings? Regarding lost items, the postal system certainly got very bad for a time, but it seems to have got slightly better. From what I've heard, it is also taking a lot longer for items to get to Europe from the UK. This is probably because of Brexit and delays at the ports. I hope it gets better for you soon.
I only order from 5 star ratings with 250+ reviews.. I also ask sellers to verify runouts, especially for older pressings.. that definitely limits your options and cost more, but haven’t had any issues with several hundred purchases
Sometimes 5K plus reviews is not so great either, if sellers work in bulk, they don’t pay close attention to every record. Bad reviews can get lost in the shuffle.
You would think that would work, but there have been loads of times, that 5 star sellers hugely over grade records. I think people don’t want to spoil their high ratings and don’t complain.
That British seller deserves ZERO stars.
Awful!
The sellers get lazy when there are too many versions with tiny variations listed. Check the seller's rating and feedback before buying.
It is hard, VERY VERY HARD, to try and keep buyers happy all the time. And as a Discogs seller and buyer, I usually hold all other sellers below my own standards, which in itself is frustrating.. And as a frequent buyer I get it, it’s also super frustrating to drop $$$ on a NM record, and you get some G+ish piece of crap, and then you have to go through the hassle of the return and sometimes you have to fight with the seller even when they have solid feedback.. Then there is Goldmine, many brick & mortar grade a Discogs VG as VG+. And Discogs G+ as VG. And newer buyers think a Goldmine “Good” is actually a good record. So as a seller, you can imagine how difficult it is to develop consistent and accurate grading standards above Goldmine that keep over 99% of your customers happy.
And yes, mistakes do happen, we are only human. Now considering there are millions of records with millions of variants, and you stock several thousand albums, and ship several thousand each year, to be able to list each record under the proper release, grade it to try and ensure 100% of people are happy, write custom, thorough, accurate, and consistent grading comments on each record listing, take the time and effort to develop grading and inventory management programs and standards, design and build custom ultrasonic cleaners that work at scale to help ensure every single non-sealed record is cleaned almost up to par with a Degritter, and anything else that is novel that I can't think of off the top of my head, all of this is done to try and deliver the best possible product to my customers and to build the type of store I would want to shop at. And with overhead exceeding 40%, not including the cost of the record and labor, and any excess revenue or profit going to expand the business, and the 1,000's of non-paid hours poured in to growing the business, and when you've been confirmed as having the best sellers ethos and customer service on the entire platform, it can be super frustrating as a seller when you get unfounded attitude or feedback when you do more to provide one of the best, most accurate and honest, and customer service oriented stores on Discogs, more so than most, if not any other seller on Discogs.
Fortunately the Discogs community is filled with passionate lovers of music, and most are down to earth great people! And while traveling around the World over the years, and visiting every single record store I can, the one common denominator I found that any successful record stores has is that the individuals who operate and run them do so for their passion and love of music, and not for money. No one gets rich running a record store. So that’s been my guiding character when building Around-About-Records, and I’ve found success with it and met many cool people and made many great friends along the way.
Unfortunately, it has turned into more of a non-paid job than a passion project recently. And as a full time grad student, a full time network engineer, and a disabled veteran with a family, I've really wanted to walk away from it. But with so much time, money, energy, passion, and effort poured into it, it's really not possible to quit at this point. So I'm winding down my inventory and looking for the next chapter of AAR.
So if you've read this far, or have been a patron of mine, thank you so very much! The point of all this is to provide a sellers perspective and to say that in my experience, Discogs is still by far the best platform to buy your favorite records online. While I'll be the first to admit there is room for improvement, I've spoken with the staff at Discogs and efforts are well under way to help alleviate many of the common concerns from buyers and sellers. And please keep in mind the staff at Discogs is just like the rest of us, passionate lovers of music and down to earth great people who want to provide the best possible experience for us all.
Discogs is a minefield. It took me along time to find sellers that items were in the condition described and the correct release. I always said people just sell their old crap off on Discogs. I’ve heard Americans say grading is an issue with UK sellers that’s nonsense I’ve received some terrible vinyl from USA sellers also. Unless it’s something I really want or mint and sealed I don’t use Discogs anymore.
Please we need the nome of user uk seller..eh eh
I’ve had far more problems with eBay than I ever had with Discogs; that’s why I choose to sell on Discogs. I have never sold overseas because of the potential issues. One bad buying experience I did have on Discogs they had my back and resolved the issue Immediately. I can totally understand the problems with the original pressings; they scare me too and I basically deal with reissues. Michael, I love your channel and look forward to every new video!
I do have /had the same problems. It is not the platform in most cases, it is the seller or the bad postage system in certain countries. You were spot on. On Friday i was having a user request session with discogs. They are really trying to improve the platform.
I can see how discogs wouldn't scale well for your purposes, because you have to be prepared to return a high percentage of records even if you're careful checking ratings, etc.
To commiserate, here's one of my worst experiences. Ordered a first pressing from a pretty new seller and included a polite note asking them to reach out before shipping if there's any doubt about the pressing/condition. They ship the record, and of course it's a bootleg (a color-variant in fact, very obviously not the original). I generally don't bother with negative feedback (which is part of the problem, I know), but after the seller got the record back they again relisted it incorrectly, so I left the negative to warn others and immediately got one back in retaliation.
I have been a discogs seller since just over a year ago and I make sure to care for each record and customer. Replying within the first hour of purchase and same day ship always. I have no idea why people decide to sell and just refuse to be decent human beings...
Hi Michael, welcome to the real world of collecting records. I’ve experienced everything that you spoke about but only in much smaller amounts. Discogs needs to find a method by which we can buy from multiple sellers and only pay one carriage fee. Over here in the UK since Brexit all orders attract 20% VAT and that’s a big uplift but other than the shipping fee customs are happy so a £20.00 record becomes £24.00 + shipping are those charges can vary wildly. Good luck with your new route in the UK.
I don't understand your new desire to track down originals just for A/B reviews. Used records are always a risk. I bought a record from my local store last week that looked NM it played VG. Clearly you have the funds to buy anything you wish, I'd stick with new LP's. Did Blondie have a fan club before Parallel Lines? I bought my copy the week it was released. No insert.
Ebay is a great way to buy as up to 12 photos are possible in the listing and the seller is really held accountable at a serious level.
Using the vinylhub map on Discogs and finding the record shops is my favourite way to find original lps.
Did exactly that today in Brussels and found a great lenticular 3d cover of the stranglers raven... right next to the mannequin pis. UK 1st press but 2nd variant. €50. Great shop and service!
Right, I buy 97% of the time from eBay, and always exclusively from listings with actual photos taken by the Seller. Also, if I email a Seller about details and they don't respond, it's a sure indication to me that they don't deserve my business. I actually had a Seller send me insulting messages when I asked about a product (Seller: thepastisnt), and he has a 100% rating? BEWARE!
I've only been burned once on discogs when a shipper sent a record with the bare vinyl OUTSIDE of the sleeve, just rubbing against the mailer. Came completely scuffed. It was a very rare album and I was pretty upset but I did get a refund. He had great reviews and everything, was very apologetic, but I'm baffled as to how that happened.
On the flip side, I also had a fellow from Germany hold a record for me for several months because of Covid complications. He remembered me, kept his word, and reached out, shipped the record quickly and it arrived in great condition. He had no reviews either, just a caring vinyl collector.
Discogs can be difficult indeed. I always try to combine more records from one seller to reduce the total price including shipping. Start a wantlist. Then you automatically see if a seller has some items from this list. Also best to contact the seller beforehand if you want to be sure it's the correct pressing and if the grading is somewhat reliable. Customs are also a bitch, here in Belgium it's even more expensive... Normally I try to avoid buying outside of Europe but that makes it not easy to find decent UK originals or US audiophile releases.
Michael, sometimes the engineers making the original pressing were just “cranking out product”. They had no idea they had a hit on their hands. Sometimes, years later, an engineer who really loved the music, and/or had better equipment available to him, was able to say, “I can improve the sound”. They didn’t call that a remaster (because it wasn’t) and they didn’t call it a “later pressing” (because everybody just understood you’d press more to meet the demand.) And yet, they can sound better than the originals. For these later pressings, the tapes were still fresh, the cutting gear had the benefit of improved technology, and the engineers knew what they were working with. This isn’t true for ALL later pressings - for some, it’s the opposite - they used a dub tape or cheap vinyl. Provenance is never disclosed, and not just mofi. But in my experience, UK original pressings are not guaranteed to sound the best. Later pressings very often outperform the original pressings, in terms of listening value if not collecting value. General principles like “Japanese is better than UK, which is better than German” or “near mint records sound better than very good plus records” just can’t provide a universal guide to buying and enjoying. Other factors matter more. The only way to find great-sounding records is to play lots of copies back-to-back. Thee’s no shortcut to a direct listening comparison, without regard for what’s in the matrix.
I like Discogs because it allows me to find what I want when I want without hoping and praying I can find it digging in a record store. Also it makes it easy for me to find the pressing I want. When looking at records at a shop it’s a major chore to try and identify the pressing while your there. It is the most expensive way to do it but ultimately I like it. I have bought many records from Discogs and have only ever had 1 poor experience and even that ended up ok in the end.
Michael- I really enjoy your channel…AND I’m a CD enthusiast at heart (to the tune of over 9,000 now at age 52). Just wanted to comment that this situation with Discogs isn’t limited to vinyl. I’ve purchased on the site since 2006 and the disinterest in CDs/dumping of mass collections has flippers scouring thrift stores, racing home to research the highest value on Discogs, and recklessly tagging their item as that particular release…don’t even get me started on condition as I believe these new sellers quite literally grade in the dark. They aren’t impaired visually because they would have felt the scratches to the touch before listing items Mint or NM.
My experience with lost packages only ever occurs on Discogs from Sellers who list on multiple platforms, have already sold the item, or realize the value has increased/no longer want to sell the item, etc. and then claim it’s lost in the post so they don’t get dinged with bad feedback on the site- a waste of time for buyers. The hurt is all around and I feel your pain. Congrats on your new resource for original pressings!
Never does a flipper selling me scratched up crap get to keep my money. I always get full refund so they lose on item cost and post.
Yes a lot of the sellers on Discogs are absolute clowns!
Wow, this video was so interesting! Your delivery of the numbers had me lol. It is no laughing matter that things are this way, quite sad. Glad to hear you have found a good source of OG records. Thanks again Michael
No wonder you're giving up on them. In your situation, I would too!
For me, Discogs is best for research references on records I find in the wild. I usually check Discogs and 45cat for release dates, and more often than not, 45cat is more accurate.
Discogs can be an adventure. Still use it. Every retailer has its quirks. You being in Germany seems like specific problems. I have specific problems where I am. I like many parts of Discogs. Lots of Record stores. Love n hate with Discogs. Use it all the time. Just depends on what I am purchasing
Your story is specific to your location. I had problems with two German sellers on Discogs. One wanting to sell outside the platform. Not cool.
only issues I've had on discogs were with CDs- there was a specific german CD of Phaedra that I wanted to get- ordered it twice off of discogs, both times it was actually a different CD. decided to just be happy with the shm-sacd I already had.
You should definitely have an expeditor in the UK and US to simplify logistics considering your activity level. Discogs could even consider offering this service as a value add to its users. Love Discogs for the database and cataloging, but agree on the shortcomings. First of all they should allow pictures of what you’re selling with a few standard angles. Clearly capture run outs/dead wax, groove surface, labels, jacket faces, inner sleeves, and corners. Maybe even 15 second audio clips for serious sellers that can capture digitally, just to character groove wear, distortion and surface noise. Grading is always going to be subjective, but there are ways to improve the experience for serious sellers and buyers that haven’t even been touched.
Try Eil in the UK.
There are times when they can be cheaper than ebay and they do seperate inner sleeve with disc from the jacket having used them a few times.
Thak you for sharing your experience Michael. I have to say the best original pressings records I bought at Discogs were from Japanese sellers. Agharta and Dark Magus of Miles Davis are some of them. Both expensive records but Immaculate gatefolds and vinyls. Excellent packaging. That experiences shared on this video seems a joke.
Regards.
Probably the same reason why it never worked for me ;)
I've bought a few albums from Discogs. Personally I do like pictures of what I'm buying. I can't believe Discogs hasn't gotten there yet. I've had great luck with ebay over the years. If it's wrong the buyer has all the power there. So it's like a safety net.
I believe this is to lower the overall bandwidth on the site but I could be wrong. I hate the fact sellers don't publish pictures, it must be the only corner of the Internet where you buy without seeing first.
Sorry to hear about your problems with sellers on Discogs. I’ve never had many issues myself, but then I don’t buy so much on the platform. And my record purchasing over to Denmark from the UK finished after Brexit, as have the same problems with customs regardless of price. Thankfully, I have a couple of trusted record pimps here in Copenhagen that keep me supplied.
Luckily, I haven't had any issues here in the US. I try to stick with US based sellers just in case there is an issue with the record. It's a risky endeavor for audiophiles and collectors who know exactly what they're looking for.
I’m new to the Discogs part and on my first purchase it went wrong…..so never again…I’ll stick to local record shops and record fairs…
Lately I experience the same problems and frustrations with some sellers. It’s also good lately I see a logo marking actual record stores. But get your refund and give the seller the feedback they deserve.
Michael.. hello! I haven't commented with you for a long time, and glad I watched this video ! I have had several bad experiences with Discogs sellers.. overgrading jacket covers. and the vinyl. I just do not buy..rarely anymore from Discogs ! Agreed.. fantastic. database, and useful tool for comparative pricing.. thanks for this video Michael.. and I do like your channel ! Hope things get straightened out for you.. Regards. JT
It sounds like you have been through the mill with Discogs, Michael! I agree there is plenty of scope for improvement, and perhaps we will see some of this in future. However, I have to say that I have had generally good experiences and will continue to use it. But I really, really do my research on the sellers before making a purchase and, over time, I find that I tend to buy from the same sellers over and over again. They tend to have the records I want and I know that they are truthful about vinyl grading, good with dispatching, etc, etc. The only exception was just a couple of months ago when I loosened my usual adherence to my seller research and paid the price. It was a seller I was unfamiliar with and I believe (after some reflection) he was simply advertising records he didn't really have to sell. It took 6 weeks to get a refund because -- I believe -- he was trying to source them for sale on demand.
Wow, what a bad time you have had Michael, I'm very sorry to hear that. I haven't bought NEARLY as many as you have from discogs (maybe 100-150 or so) But, I always, ALWAYS ALWAYS write the sellers first and ask them if they would kindly confirm the vinyl condition and the matrix runout in the deadwax. In the handful of cases where they had not listed it properly, they let me know and re-listed it properly. But, I suppose if you do so many you are bound to have a LOT more negative results.
Never got on with Discogs no pictures and the gradings are usually wrong and the postage cost is crazy but brilliant resource for valuing and information.
The biggest issue is vinyl is almost always graded visually.
After my third "NM" album that was unplayable upon receipt, I vowed to never use Discogs for vinyl again.
They are wonderful for used CDs, though.
Wow - sounds like you had a lot of problems - dodgy sellers passing off bootlegs as original copies and a really strange british guy who didn't want to sell his record! I've had a few issues, but the seller has always offered a refund. I always spend time reading through seller reviews before making a purchase and prefer sellers with large volumes instead of less than 100 feedback etc...
I bought an OG Die Mensch Machine a while back and I too thought there was no matrix in the dead wax but for some reason its very close to the label and quite hard to spot! So relief on that one. In fact I just had to double check! There is definitely a listing on Discogs for an unofficial version with no matrix so I'm guessing thats the one you have. Hope it gets sorted anyway! Very annoying!!
I’ve been entering all of my albums into discogs A-Z over the past 2 months. I’ve been doing alittle bit at a time and I’m currently at M’s. Before Discogs, I entered each album into a note section of my Cell Phone to keep track of everything. I’ve been doing this forever until I decided to use Discogs to track collection.
I’ve discovered that it’s not easy to identify some albums as the ID markings are very difficult to read sometimes. Im sure this is a problem for everyone. I could see how some of these sellers are getting it wrong. BUT I think Sellers should take the time and get it right especially when dealing with High Priced Original Pressings. Not knowing or getting it wrong isn’t a good excuse when money is involved.
Ive only bought on discogs a few times , but I was pleasantly surprised, mind you this was years ago !
discogs sucks because people buy only to resell for insane profit thesedays, I only buy from top sellers who are serious with great feedback !
I've had great experiences through Discogs having been buying off them for over 12 years without issues however have not been into the Original pressing game for the risk involved in validity of quality and receiving in fact an original. Would love to do comparisons on original Jazz pressings eg Mono Blue Train against the new Tone Poet Mono release coming up
I understand the dilemma.
I only order from sellers with a 100% positive feedback stat and if possible over 1000.
Never a real problem.
But I agree, sometimes the grading sucks big time.
Yes, and if the seller has slightly lower than 100% positive, say 99.9 or 99.8, I always look at the feedback to see why. Sometimes it has nothing to do with the quality of the records, but might be a slow shipping issue or something like that. Before I started buying records online four or five years ago, I was a long-time buyer and seller of books. I learned that it really pays to do due diligence when buying online.
Before you purchase a vintage record on Discogs, you can send a question to the seller. Ask him to verify the matrix number on the LP itself. Ask him to verify this is indeed a UK pressing. After verifying this, purchase the item. Good luck!
Wow, lots of problems with Discogs sellers. Sorry to hear of so many issues with these dealers. That stupid freak in the UK needs to be banned from selling anywhere. Hope things improve. All the best.
Danke again Micheal 45 for another enlightening and exciting real talk session about Records! As I said: now that big money is involved in records the Hanky Panky begins. Peace and Love Micheal✌
P.S. can't wait for the magic words!
Stick to record fairs 👍
The " median " price is really the right price give or take a few dollars most of the time & I offer in the neighborhood of that as a buyer & seller.
@45RPM mike, I'm a long time discogs user and contributor (since 2010) and I almost always used it for original. Until 2/3 years ago it was still possible to find nice original copies of records that at least here in Italy were very rare if not unobtainable. Then everything changed, for the worst, prices sky rocking increased and most originals are now unfindable. I know that because I frequently monitor prices for the records in my collection and the vast majority are now incresed 3/4/500% of the price I payed them when back. So IMO problem is that there are no longer enough copies for sale if none.
Same thing for ebay, until before covid I used to do some bidding on large WEEKLY batch (1000) of jazz and fuck originals from US. And I bought so many great records for peanuts..now, no more. It's something from the past...in fact nowadays I almost only buy audiophile reissues since original are so scarce and rare...and it's a pity..not only online but also brick and mortar, here in Turin we have some very very nice old record shops (something like 10!) that I used to visit every Saturday but now it's only a waste of time. Nothing interesting. Yes it's sad
Comic book prices have gone sky-high too over COVID. The owner of Mile High Comics think it's people in hi-tech who have lots of money and time on their hands coming in and buying all the key comics, driving the prices up. It may be true in other collector fields.
"I don't want to marry you, I just want to buy this record." Hilarious!!!!
I'm really sorry to hear about all your troubles with Discogs. I personally don't buy anything used from Discogs for many of the reasons you're experiencing right now. These days, if I'm going to buy used vinyl, I try Ebay first. At least there I can see pictures of the actual LP I am considering buying. I guess I've also been very lucky with Ebay, in that in most cases the album and vinyl are in the condition listed, and in some cases, even better condition than described in the listing. I hope things improve for you Michael, and I hope you don't get discouraged with buying the originals. Great video Michael.
You're ordering a crazy amount on DISCOGS! If you want to be careful I suggest you do one of three things:
1. Ask the seller for pictures of the Lp by email since discogs doesn't allow you to attached pictures.
2. Find a seller you can TRUST and stick with this SELLER.
3. Look for records in a traditional record store discogs has a very handy map that pinpoints exactly where all the record stores are in your area.
One last thing that I should mention is seller rating. Personally, never order from a seller that has under a 99.8% seller rating and you also need to look at the number of buyers that have rated a seller. I hope my advice helps you, I consider myself a very experience discogs buyer. I order almost monthly from the sit multiple packages from all over the world and for the most part my experiences have been good
*And by the way the MAIL ESPECIALLY INTERNATIONAL mail has been HELL since COVID and prices have gone way up for shipping.
Good Luck!
Traditional record stores can be some of the worst sellers for used vinyl. They simply don’t have the time to properly inspect every record. Always read the reviews for nuance. A couple of negative reviews for mis-graded records out of hundreds OK, but comments like “seller does not return messages” or “bad packaging” or “wildly overgraded” means that seller should be avoided, even with a 99.8% rating.
@@christopherpfiffner724 I always leave a little wiggle room for seller grades. I have a book of discog seller that are good and grace well and even under grade. Personally I love record stores there is noting like flipping through a box of records and finding a hidden gem.
Discogs seller grading is terrible. And half the records I receive are either not accurately graded or are damaged. 👎🏻
Mike, I hear your pain. I purchase a great deal of music from Discogs (primarily cd's) and I find grading is a serious problem. For the most part seller's are responsive, but some dealers just don't care and have zero quality control.
I have never ordered through Discogs because of the horrendous postage fees applicable to Australia....maybe a blessing in disguise?🤔
Make sure you leave feedback, if it's good then say so, if it's bad say so. It will help others in the future.
You should have reported the seller so Discogs could remove him. You also can't blame Discogs, you can only blame the sellers. Taking time to look at feedback and even taking the time to send a message before you order may be the best way to ensure you get what you're paying for.
The world is full of douche bags and fees. Stay honest and strong. 😁💪
I've pretty much have had the same problems with originals.
I recently bought 4 albums (7 discs including Hendrix UHQR) direct from Acoustic Sounds for a total of US$271. Shipping to UK was US$61 and I have also been hit with 'UK taxes' equivalent to US$81. I could live with the shipping costs but the 'UK taxes' on top are a killer.
You can avoid some of the costs when buying from AS by setting up an online billing account with FedEx. That would save you being charged their “Disbursement Fee”.
@@rabarebra not a democratic society but a socialist one!
Import taxes have always been applied from the States. Is this your first order ever?
@@brandnewstart Thanks, that's good to know.
@@DrOz-007 I did one in 2020 (Jethro Tull UHQR plus a couple of others) and seemingly it was my lucky day as I wasn't charged
I also have a love hate relationship with Discogs. Your story confirms that Discogs doesn't care about the Buyer experience. There is no simple way to reach them if you have a concern or a suggestion for improvement.
At least eBay will hound a seller that does not ship on time. If you have a complaint as a buyer, within hours you will get a refund without having to send an item back to the seller. (yes the buyer is expected to return the item) This process even though draconian, works at protecting buyers and forcing bad sellers to go to Discogs :)
MICHAEL - ALWAYS BUY THE SELLER AS MUCH AS THE RECORD CONDITION!!!
Would you share the names of the unreasonable sellers, so we can avoid buying from them?
And what is the name of the seller that came through for you and got you the original Blondie by your deadline? I would like to buy from them.
maybe i share something way more important give me some time please ano
Just ask for details or pics. I never have an issue on discogs when I get the details or pictures needed. Never
The database is superb. The users less so. Probably in a minority? 49.9%
same issue with david bowie santa monica 72 widely bootleg
Michael no one can argue with your own personal experiences with Discogs.
And I appreciate your frustration I noticed comments were people are referencing EBay & although I use eBay (mostly with success from a select group of sellers) the main issue I find is grading of vinyl .
Huge disparity between grading and reality. I even enquired from seller to ask condition only to be told “I’m selling so much vinyl I don’t have time to cheque???”
It’s so hard to trust people now a days. I have been so scared to try discogs, heard so many horror stories. I do of course use it to catalog my own collection but I would much rather see a record in person before buying if possible.
Contact the Sellers and ask questions regarding the condition and if their records are listed correctly. If they don't respond, don't buy from them.
Find out which sellers you can trust and keep buying from them if they have what you are looking for.
A Customs fee of 6 euros? I live in Denmark and the fee here is 21 euros!
Thank you for being so candid, great video as usual. I feel your pain with import handling fees, you are lucky at €6 a pop, in Malta its €13.99. If I order something from say Amazon USA they don't charge it but its the same courier, there is no handling fee included in the pre-calc of shipping Amazon do, go figure that! Keep up the great content!
I won't use Discogs anymore after lots of similar problems. I recently ordered 12 Original pressings from an online UK shop and must say the prices, condition and postage costs were the best. Plus they come with a money back guarantee.
Discogs is generally way overpriced too.
Thankfully we can get back to record fairs and real shops to check before purchasing.
Lots to get excited about with the vinyl community but lots to be aware of.
For the most part, I stopped buying used vinyl from random Discogs sellers around 5-6 years ago. Too much over-grading, wrong records sent, too much back and forth over problems, and an overall waste of time.
As we get further into the whole "vinyl comeback" hype all sorts of amateur hour sellers are moving onto the platform and seeing what they can get away with. Feedback means nothing because it is very easy to game.
A lot of these sellers are counting on the fact that many people new to the hobby are buying now and won't complain if they get the wrong edition or an over-graded copy.
Discogs as a company doesn't care because they rake in fees from each transaction. They are incentivized to increase volume so bad sellers don't get weeded out there.
The Wilco guy transaction could be a Monty Python skit.
It's good that you are establishing "clearinghouses" in the countries you want to buy in. Discogs is never great when buying out of country, and on top of that true NM's are hard to find on a good day.
You never mentioned ratings, however. I've found you've got to stick with those 99.9% folks from a thousand or so buyers. The ones chasing the ratings are usually ok.
I get it, and definitely not arguing your points. I actually just had another one this week that showed up as a repress. Thankfully the seller just refunded, didn't even want it back and in that scenario I'll usually counter to pay something fair, but not when they send it then try to hold me hostage to buy something I did not order. I put a lot of stock into seller ratings; believe them and go back to the negatives if there aren't any recently left. As other have mentioned, there are a lot more less experienced buyers lately so it's worth digging in. Also, if you figure the time it would take to track down the records you were able to order and showed up correctly in a local brick-and-mortar, if you'd even find some of them at all, vs the returns and the hassle, you're almost certainly still ahead, not to mention that you get to comparison shop sometimes for the best price. All that said, it's certainly still frustrating.
In the U.S. these are known as "first world problems." I consider myself very fortunate to have the disposable income to support a music-collecting habit, and you'll never hear me complaining about this sort of thing, especially publicly. It just comes with the territory.
We are lucky in the States. Generally we have zero custom fees and additional taxes that many in the EU and UK have.
What stories. You're a fabulous story teller. I've never ordered from Discogs. Don't plan on it now. 🙂
I dont have a problem with Discogs at all and find it very useful HOWEVER it is a great place for dishonest sellers to thrive and its solely those few individuals who i DO have problems with. Ive probably had to return roughly half the LPs from individual sellers who listed a record as NM and it came anything but. The flipside is theres lots of indies that sell new records at great prices and ive found some great LPs from near and far across Europe.
Sadly with Brexit not working out the duty on EU purchases sucks alot as a UK buyer
I do not think it is necessary for you to be tortured by the now normal state of affairs buying LPs or CDs on discogs. I give you an enormous amount of credit for wanting to do something as interesting as comparing different issues, originals versus reissues. You are such a likeable and honest person I hate to see you so distressed. I think if the comparisons can be done within reason then fine, but you have done such a great job before I think your reviews are extremely valuable regardless. This latest review criteria seems to have followed the Mofi-gate, sometimes a negative can spark something wonderful. There is a saying "all solutions breed new problems ". I must agree with Steve Guttenberg when it comes to the politics of all things Audio and that is - 'who gives a rats ass'. Anyway thank you Michael for your channel and your excellent content.