Customer seems like a really nice guy. Blows my mind that people keep their houses at 75 in the winter though. Here in Wisconsin that'd give you one heck of a utility bill. I like 68ish in the winter and 72ish in the summer
I hear you on knees and crawl spaces. I did HVAC for over 25 years. A few years ago, I worked for a Carrier dealer. We had 5 bad Carrier secondaries in the week between Christmas and New Year a couple years back. They we’re all warranty exchanger replacements. Absolutely hated it, because they exchangers come knocked down and need to be assembled. You also have to separate the old exchanger to scavenge a plate they don’t give you with the new assembly 😢
My Carrier heat exchanger had to be replaced while still under warranty. I still had to pay labor. But, I discovered there is a recall on Carrier heat exchangers from the early 2000’s. I emailed carrier through their website. They asked for a copy of the invoice to replace it. Emailed invoice to them and two days later they emailed that they were mailing a check for the labor, over $900. If you payed for this, search carrier heat exchanger recall and you can check your model number.
Good vid. For All the New Guys out there - All Carrier Equipment the Serial number is Read - First 2 numbers are the “ Week of manufacture “. 2nd 2 numbers are the “ Year “ ie: this unit was a 0508 = Furnace was Made the 5th Week of 2008. This is for ALL Carrier , Day & night & Payne products. Furnaces, Condensers & Roof top Package units. What a Nightmare to work under there. Glad I’m in Cali. I don’t do crawl spaces anymore. Got real sick after going in a crawl space once without a respirator. Not too many crawl spaces around here ! I’m glad !
Why do most HVAC techs beat the hell out of the equipment they install and service? I just had a new furnace installed and I don't think there's an inch on it that doesn't have a scratch or scuff on it! And in the past when I had my old furnace serviced, the techs would throw the doors on the cement floor.
They should replace those camp lejune commercials with ones that say DO YOU OR A LOVED ONE LIVE IN A HOUSE WITH A 2006 CARRIER FURNACE? IF SO YOU MAY BE REQUIRED TO REPLACE IT SOON.
Always hate it when the van is out of service. Gotta use the loaner lol, but good job man I’m impressed with how few tools you use to fix a unit. A lot of guys lugging their 80lb bags to change out a damn capacitor 😂
I probably swap 5-10 secondary exchangers a year on these carrier/Bryant's. As a company, we probably do 50-80. Thank God we got full basements here in Wisconsin, cause that swap would be a bi*ch In that crawl space
Great job as always! Love these videos! Every time I watch one of your videos I learn more even though I’m not in the trade. I really enjoy watching you perform some honest work. If your able to show the install that would be appreciated. Thanks and have a blessed New Year.
When I’ve installed these Carrier furnaces I always pitch the unit slightly forward to help with draining , I’m assuming that’s what that rust is from inside the unit . The water is sitting inside and rotting the heat exchanger
Aldehydes - Aldehydes are products of incomplete combustion. They have a sharp, penetrating odor. Aldehydes will sometimes leave a metallic taste in the mouth, along with a burning sensation in the nose and eyes. If the odor of aldehydes is present, it is very likely that carbon monoxide (CO) will also be present. However, if the odor of aldehydes is not present, CO may still be present. Aldyhydes are toxic.
Too bad that is as it makes the rest of the operating parts suddenly a pile of junk. You would think some modular designs could be made so failures like this can be repaired with a part that simply slides in and out. Lots of neat and nicely run wiring etc. under the house. Customer keeps the place up very well too. I'd reckon the new system will be installed ON the soil vs. into that pit idea of a design. Happy 2023.
That’s the nicest crawl space I’ve ever seen I wish the ones in Georgia were like that. Majority of em still have asbestos tape and no plastic layed + it’s impossible to see with the dust and no lights.
In regards to crawlspaces and gravel, I just wear hardcap knee pads and gloves before i go in. What does the bad exhaust smell like when they get the cracked heat exchanger?
To get them by til you replaced the unit, would it have been possible to plug the top burner gas supply? Maybe by siliconing the top orifice & relocating the flame rod down to the next burner? I realize this is ‘not to spec’, just something to get them by.
To bypass the 90 second family circulation, turn off at furnace switch, wait 10 seconds so you don't blow a fuse, and turn back on again and the exhaust will kick start
I have an Amana air command High efficient 90 gas. Not sure how old it is but it came with the house here in Minnesota. So far great no complaints and I have a 6-in 25x30 I believe Merv 15 Plus with carbon filter and a April air humidifier 600 series that I run on maximum in winter time because it's dry as a bone in the house without it. It keeps the humidity at about 65 to 75% which is super comfortable and great for the plants. I looked at the symmetry of the three gas flames and from left to right since it's a vertical system in my basement. The left one which is first on the gas supply is very tight and symmetrical going down as far as you can see in the exchanger, the second is almost as symmetrical and tight as it goes down the heat exchanger and the third is noticeably roiling and doesn't tighten up as much as it goes down the tube like the others. Not much yellow except for a little wisp here and there which gets better the longer it runs. My question is if that lack of symmetry in that third flame which is the one at the end of the gas supply pipe is concerning or not?
Daaaaamn!! That much rust is a guaranteed cracked heat exchanger. With those >93 percenters flame roll out is always a cracked primary or plugged secondary.
Thanks for posting these videos. The temperature dropped to 14 below here one night a couple weeks ago. The next day the high temp barely reached zero. Our Carrier 58mvp100-f-17120 (2003 install date) struggled to maintain 68 degrees. We've had colder winter days but our furnace was always up to the task. I suspect that the secondary is gradually clogging up. Not enough to trip the flame roll out switch yet or produce any noticeable flame issues. In my opinion this condition is like cholesterol in arteries. It just builds up until there's a catastrophic failure. I'm going to pull the heat exchanger in May to inspect the secondary. I also have plans to replace the furnace. I did get a quote from an authorized Carrier dealer to replace the secondary under warranty. It's about $1,500 labor with Carrier covering the parts. From what I understand ONLY authorized Carrier dealers can obtain the parts under warranty. Google; SMB 09-0022 for more information. IMO Carrier's position on this failure is borderline criminal.
Golly. Rest assured not all of us installers aren’t that inept. The owner of the company I’ve been working for has been looking for a lead installer for a few years so I’ve been stuck in install. It doesn’t get more simple where Phoenix Arizona gets mostly 80%s with 49% heat pumps
I know right,where Im at its pretty much all basements,get an occasional attic or one on a slab,couldnt imagine have to go in them crawl spaces all the time.
What is the smell? Unburned gas, hot metal, or something else? How feasible would it be to temporarily plug the top burner to prevent the rollout? You'd lose a lot of capacity, but at least they'd still have heat until they got a new furnace. I hope you do a post-install video so we can see how you arranged the furnace to not be sunk in that pit; set higher, with the flue run differently.
The problem isn't the switch tripping, it's why. The secondary heat exchanger is plugged, restricting path to exhaust. The rollout switch is a safety device. NEVER bypass/cheat a safety device. Source: 20yr hvac tech
holy union fest on that gas piping! 🤣 from the looks of it, they only hauled in so many nipples and fittings and were done crawling in and out. looks like the same thing with the exhaust, didn't have nor order a trap setup so slammed the unit down in the schmutz and pitched it up the whole way. probably like: hey Jimbob what parts you got in your plumbing tray and van, we needs to git-r-done.
I've seen ton of the same working fine vertically with well serviced inducer motor and clean vents. Horizontally should be the same. If they have money to burn sell them a new trane every year. Good for you.
Hope my 2020 Carrier does better. It replaced an 06 York having the same issues. If I have to do it yet again, 80% with zoning and screw the overpriced modulating stuff.
Even though this model was a disaster still prefer carrier 90% furnaces to anything else out there. Find the new ones really never leak through the secondary. The 80% are another story but only because their inducer motors are hot garbage otherwise fine.
Every manufacturer has their good and bad. Good and have awesome heat exchangers but the gas valves and flames sensors are garbage. I haven’t ran into many Trane furnaces up here but their AC coil design is Terrible and a nightmare to clean. When picking a manufacturer to sell just sell what you are comfortable with. I honestly prefer York as of late, a lot of good quality of life improvements and very easy to install.
The ones made prior to 2012 are well known for this. The 58 series carrier. The new 59 series isn't much better though as Ive already seen a few with bad heat exchangers.
Can you actually run the flue like you said? I never knew that. I get the concept but that seems way wrong,against code, not per manufacturer… Enlighten me!
Those hack installers shouldn't be in the field. A 5 ton blower with a 4 ton condenser will work but would that house really need that much airflow for just the first floor? I'm assuming they had another system in the attic Great video
at only 15 years old that payne x-changer should be covered under warranty from bryant/carrier up to 20 years...even crawl-space installed equipment should last 20+ years...
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Customer seems like a really nice guy. Blows my mind that people keep their houses at 75 in the winter though. Here in Wisconsin that'd give you one heck of a utility bill. I like 68ish in the winter and 72ish in the summer
as an Arizonian It blows my mind people turn their ac down to 72, we keep ours at 80.
I hear you on knees and crawl spaces. I did HVAC for over 25 years. A few years ago, I worked for a Carrier dealer. We had 5 bad Carrier secondaries in the week between Christmas and New Year a couple years back. They we’re all warranty exchanger replacements. Absolutely hated it, because they exchangers come knocked down and need to be assembled. You also have to separate the old exchanger to scavenge a plate they don’t give you with the new assembly 😢
My Carrier heat exchanger had to be replaced while still under warranty. I still had to pay labor. But, I discovered there is a recall on Carrier heat exchangers from the early 2000’s. I emailed carrier through their website. They asked for a copy of the invoice to replace it. Emailed invoice to them and two days later they emailed that they were mailing a check for the labor, over $900. If you payed for this, search carrier heat exchanger recall and you can check your model number.
Good vid.
For All the New Guys out there - All Carrier Equipment the Serial number is Read - First 2 numbers are the “ Week of manufacture “. 2nd 2 numbers are the “ Year “
ie: this unit was a 0508 = Furnace was Made the 5th Week of 2008.
This is for ALL Carrier , Day & night & Payne products.
Furnaces, Condensers & Roof top Package units.
What a Nightmare to work under there. Glad I’m in Cali. I don’t do crawl spaces anymore. Got real sick after going in a crawl space once without a respirator.
Not too many crawl spaces around here ! I’m glad !
Be nice to see these new systems you install. The improvements you made etc
Why do most HVAC techs beat the hell out of the equipment they install and service? I just had a new furnace installed and I don't think there's an inch on it that doesn't have a scratch or scuff on it! And in the past when I had my old furnace serviced, the techs would throw the doors on the cement floor.
Architects never give enough room for the mechanical equipment! Digging holes to fit a furnace under the house - madness!
Love your videos Ted!
I'm not an hvac tech. You do really good work.
Hey Ted. I think they make something called knee pads. Most of the time, not needed, but as you get up in age, I find they are right handy. Great vid.
They should replace those camp lejune commercials with ones that say DO YOU OR A LOVED ONE LIVE IN A HOUSE WITH A 2006 CARRIER FURNACE? IF SO YOU MAY BE REQUIRED TO REPLACE IT SOON.
Wouldn’t trust a Bryant fire extinguisher if it was a 10mil gallon tank of co2
At least it will be installed properly this time around! Thank you for the video.
I'm new to the field only been in 2 years but I had no idea you could run a vent verticly down. That's good to know learn something everyday
Always hate it when the van is out of service. Gotta use the loaner lol, but good job man I’m impressed with how few tools you use to fix a unit. A lot of guys lugging their 80lb bags to change out a damn capacitor 😂
Do you think high efficiency furnaces are junk due to secondary heat exchangers rotting? I’m currently on year 16 of an 80% furnace.
What brand would you recommend? Thanks... I have a Trane ..it’s hard for me to get parts.. thought Carrier would be better.
Who ever installed that should go back to trade school.
What a disgrace
Ted, That gravel would definitely hurt my old knees. Happy New Year!
Just a question doesn't the heater changer have to be pitch to help with condensate drainage
I probably swap 5-10 secondary exchangers a year on these carrier/Bryant's. As a company, we probably do 50-80. Thank God we got full basements here in Wisconsin, cause that swap would be a bi*ch In that crawl space
Interesting vid Ted, Happy new year to yourself and the family, i look forward to the new installation 👍 🍷
Beautiful neighborhood, this house deserves a first class system .
Great job as always! Love these videos! Every time I watch one of your videos I learn more even though I’m not in the trade. I really enjoy watching you perform some honest work. If your able to show the install that would be appreciated. Thanks and have a blessed New Year.
How you gonna get a new furnace in that small entrance to the crawl space.
When I’ve installed these Carrier furnaces
I always pitch the unit slightly forward to help with draining , I’m assuming that’s what that rust is from inside the unit . The water is sitting inside and rotting the heat exchanger
Do they last any longer? Usually 10-12 years is the norm here
Some people make it so much harder. Whoever installed that unit must have had a lot of spare time and fittings on there hands
I understand the gravel comment. I hate gravel and hidden chunks of concrete. HAPPY NEW YEAR TED.
Had the exact same problem on the exact same furnace today.. Unfortunately for the customer, Carrier gives us good business!
Man that was one hell of a set up they had putting that down in that hole,they made it way harder then it needed to be.
Oh man feel for ya with the gravel and knee's for sure. Feels like fire
@14:07 what are you smelling? What does it smell like?
What was the smell you spoke of at the end?
The smell of $$$ flying out in the air.
You can actually smell natural gas smells very odd odor from the gas exhaust from the furnace
I think it is the smell of incomplete gas combustion in the furnace exhaust.
Imagine the smell of the exhaust out of a car from the early 70s running rich.
Aldehydes - Aldehydes are products of incomplete combustion. They have a sharp, penetrating odor. Aldehydes will sometimes leave a metallic taste in the mouth, along with a burning sensation in the nose and eyes. If the odor of aldehydes is present, it is very likely that carbon monoxide (CO) will also be present. However, if the odor of aldehydes is not present, CO may still be present. Aldyhydes are toxic.
Great install.. And you dislike DIY'ers? :)
Thx. When did Payne get to be part of ICP and Carrier? 14 or 16 years not very good lifespan.
Too bad that is as it makes the rest of the operating parts suddenly a pile of junk. You would think some modular designs could be made so failures like this can be repaired with a part that simply slides in and out. Lots of neat and nicely run wiring etc. under the house. Customer keeps the place up very well too. I'd reckon the new system will be installed ON the soil vs. into that pit idea of a design. Happy 2023.
Nice video Ted! BTW what happened to your original truck?
In the shop.
That’s the nicest crawl space I’ve ever seen I wish the ones in Georgia were like that. Majority of em still have asbestos tape and no plastic layed + it’s impossible to see with the dust and no lights.
Premature heat exchanger failures are caused by the sh!tty installations. Leveling needs to be precise for proper condensate drainage.
In regards to crawlspaces and gravel, I just wear hardcap knee pads and gloves before i go in. What does the bad exhaust smell like when they get the cracked heat exchanger?
To get them by til you replaced the unit, would it have been possible to plug the top burner gas supply? Maybe by siliconing the top orifice & relocating the flame rod down to the next burner? I realize this is ‘not to spec’, just something to get them by.
To bypass the 90 second family circulation, turn off at furnace switch, wait 10 seconds so you don't blow a fuse, and turn back on again and the exhaust will kick start
I have an Amana air command High efficient 90 gas. Not sure how old it is but it came with the house here in Minnesota. So far great no complaints and I have a 6-in 25x30 I believe Merv 15 Plus with carbon filter and a April air humidifier 600 series that I run on maximum in winter time because it's dry as a bone in the house without it. It keeps the humidity at about 65 to 75% which is super comfortable and great for the plants. I looked at the symmetry of the three gas flames and from left to right since it's a vertical system in my basement. The left one which is first on the gas supply is very tight and symmetrical going down as far as you can see in the exchanger, the second is almost as symmetrical and tight as it goes down the heat exchanger and the third is noticeably roiling and doesn't tighten up as much as it goes down the tube like the others. Not much yellow except for a little wisp here and there which gets better the longer it runs. My question is if that lack of symmetry in that third flame which is the one at the end of the gas supply pipe is concerning or not?
I served in the Army 1986-1990 E-5
Hey Ted, is there anything I should be doing to prevent heat exchanger failure?
Best thing to do is replace it and install it the correct way
The blower motor delay is the worst on Bryant/carrier.
It adds so much service time
I’m 63, my knees can’t handle concrete let alone gravel. Carpet is getting tuff. If I’m on my knees, I hope I can just get up and stand. 😏😬🎅🏻
Good job Ted!!!
Thank you for the video
Do Bryant furnaces have this problem too?
Daaaaamn!! That much rust is a guaranteed cracked heat exchanger. With those >93 percenters flame roll out is always a cracked primary or plugged secondary.
Thanks for posting these videos. The temperature dropped to 14 below here one night a couple weeks ago. The next day the high temp barely reached zero. Our Carrier 58mvp100-f-17120 (2003 install date) struggled to maintain 68 degrees. We've had colder winter days but our furnace was always up to the task. I suspect that the secondary is gradually clogging up. Not enough to trip the flame roll out switch yet or produce any noticeable flame issues. In my opinion this condition is like cholesterol in arteries. It just builds up until there's a catastrophic failure. I'm going to pull the heat exchanger in May to inspect the secondary. I also have plans to replace the furnace. I did get a quote from an authorized Carrier dealer to replace the secondary under warranty. It's about $1,500 labor with Carrier covering the parts. From what I understand ONLY authorized Carrier dealers can obtain the parts under warranty. Google; SMB 09-0022 for more information. IMO Carrier's position on this failure is borderline criminal.
Golly. Rest assured not all of us installers aren’t that inept. The owner of the company I’ve been working for has been looking for a lead installer for a few years so I’ve been stuck in install. It doesn’t get more simple where Phoenix Arizona gets mostly 80%s with 49% heat pumps
I dislike doing ones in the crawl space or attics! But I do it because it’s my job and like fixing so people can get some heat again
I have a 3-year old Carrier HVAC system. Are they still have problems with the failed heat exchangers today?
Your system is brand new. We will know in 10 years, don't we?
Such a nice house with crappy install... Time to break the bad news.
Situations like this are why I prefer air to air heat pumps, ducted or ductless.
Use a plug on the top orifice and move the igniter down one. Any reason why not? You lose 20% capacity but have a working furnace.
would get them by till the cold weather subsides
that pvc vent termination did not look good either...probably a good thing they didn't connect the combustion air honestly.
What does the exhaust smell like from a bad HX?
How long before you can put a new unit in? Sounds like you guys are pretty booked out
Old age and experience beats youth and exuberant every time
No way I can live in a house without a full basement. Not sure where you live, but what is up with all the crawl space furnace locations.
First 2 numbers on Carrier are the week made second 2 are the year made.... that's quite the install.. never dug out for a condensate pump.. lol
Come to NC / SC...
Feel your pain on age been doing it 33years age 59
i just replaced one of those today, 120k btu 355cav. it was a vertical in a well lit basement though
I know right,where Im at its pretty much all basements,get an occasional attic or one on a slab,couldnt imagine have to go in them crawl spaces all the time.
Good vid Ted ... Show the new install ...
what does the odor smell like?
What is the smell? Unburned gas, hot metal, or something else? How feasible would it be to temporarily plug the top burner to prevent the rollout? You'd lose a lot of capacity, but at least they'd still have heat until they got a new furnace.
I hope you do a post-install video so we can see how you arranged the furnace to not be sunk in that pit; set higher, with the flue run differently.
The problem isn't the switch tripping, it's why. The secondary heat exchanger is plugged, restricting path to exhaust. The rollout switch is a safety device.
NEVER bypass/cheat a safety device. Source: 20yr hvac tech
Hello from the great state of Michigan
holy union fest on that gas piping! 🤣 from the looks of it, they only hauled in so many nipples and fittings and were done crawling in and out.
looks like the same thing with the exhaust, didn't have nor order a trap setup so slammed the unit down in the schmutz and pitched it up the whole way.
probably like: hey Jimbob what parts you got in your plumbing tray and van, we needs to git-r-done.
Appreciate your video. What do you charge for service calls?
$ 105.00
With a new carrier?
I've seen ton of the same working fine vertically with well serviced inducer motor and clean vents. Horizontally should be the same. If they have money to burn sell them a new trane every year. Good for you.
What was the gas pressure?
Heat exchanger was clogged… I didn’t care about gas pressure at that point.
Hope my 2020 Carrier does better. It replaced an 06 York having the same issues. If I have to do it yet again, 80% with zoning and screw the overpriced modulating stuff.
carriers are junk
What is wrong with your van?
Water pump, radiator, thermostat, hoses belts etc,
As a Wis boy, that install looks strange as hell
“double trapping situations”. dats funny right der.
would like to see the new install compared to existing
Even though this model was a disaster still prefer carrier 90% furnaces to anything else out there. Find the new ones really never leak through the secondary. The 80% are another story but only because their inducer motors are hot garbage otherwise fine.
Are these known to have bad heat exchangers? That's what my work sells and I'm an installer
I'm curious too
Every manufacturer has their good and bad.
Good and have awesome heat exchangers but the gas valves and flames sensors are garbage.
I haven’t ran into many Trane furnaces up here but their AC coil design is Terrible and a nightmare to clean.
When picking a manufacturer to sell just sell what you are comfortable with.
I honestly prefer York as of late, a lot of good quality of life improvements and very easy to install.
The ones made prior to 2012 are well known for this. The 58 series carrier. The new 59 series isn't much better though as Ive already seen a few with bad heat exchangers.
You ain’t lying about the gravel I’m in my 30’s and my knees don’t like the gravel
Back to the grind. Take care
Can you actually run the flue like you said? I never knew that. I get the concept but that seems way wrong,against code, not per manufacturer…
Enlighten me!
What a mess,the bottom of that cabinet will rust away before the furnace wears out
You do good work. 👍
Those hack installers shouldn't be in the field. A 5 ton blower with a 4 ton condenser will work but would that house really need that much airflow for just the first floor? I'm assuming they had another system in the attic Great video
I’d like to see that new install
"Gettin down to the real Nitty Gritty".....nice camera work
at only 15 years old that payne x-changer should be covered under warranty from bryant/carrier up to 20 years...even crawl-space installed equipment should last 20+ years...
Carriers don’t need a trap on the exhaust pipe
Happy New Year .
Those houses are huge!
I would have run the exugust up and over the cross beam. Happy New Year Ted.
I'm so glad that homes don't have crawlspaces in my state!!
Ted, when you get to be our age there is no good crawl space!
That fresh air intake must be connected and sealed.
No sir.
Could always hire Isaiah and his Dad , they got nothing going on for the next four weeks , I’m sure they could complete this replacement in that time
Ooo that’s pushing it chingus. They could definitely have the old unit demo by then tho
They used up the pipe pieces they had laying around.
Charged for intake air pipe work not used. Nice
I just condemned one of these today! Way to go.
Both you and Steve Lav are having truck problems...