Falling on Gear - Trad Climbing Confidence
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Falling on Gear? Hell yeah!
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One of the most fun and satisfying "exercises" for me...I really needed to start SLOW (read slow AF), only take-ing on gear in a very controlled manner, bouncing around on toprope and SLOWLY increasing the distance between falls. Such an awesome feeling!!!
Music by Epidemic Sound (www.epidemicsou...)
♫♫ - A House of Glass - par
Hey guys, what do YOU do to get comfortable on trad? Are you comfortable falling on gear? Let me know!
I watch howNOT2 on youtube.
Honestly i'm a logical guy, if the gear is rated to a certain amount and i cannot generate that kind of energy then i will happily trust it, then i just make sure my placement are technically correct.
Just watching your falls has made me feel better about falling on gear (granted I am sitting at home not 12m off the ground at Stanage!)
Your comment made me smile!:D Hopefully all this madness blows over soon so we can get scared again at our favourite crags!
I would recommend having more then 2 pieces in when practicing falls but the theory of this is good
Thanks for the comment Micah, will probably do this next time I am practising falls!
You won't always have placement for 2 pieces.
@@xsuperbmentality Very true! Or you might, but you won't have the time or energy to place it before the pump clock gets to you😄
I think Micah was talking about this specific scenario of practising falls only-which is a good point..
i think, doevery four feet instead of every eight, don't test the first few pieces either, or only from ON the ground... there's some math that is not in your favor if ANY of these pieces blow out, and if the third one goes you're definitely going to hit the next one a lot harder than you tested it.
my plan is to carry a small rack on a well bolted sport climb, clip a bolt in a nice clear spot; place trad gear 2' above the bolt, and fall 2' above the trad piece
@@toddmulligan2609 that’s what I thought all the time. You need balls of steel to „test fall“ on your traf gear on a traf route. There’s no back up if your gear wasn’t placed well enough…
Nice! I do this regularly while trad climbing against my fear. I discovered my fear is stronger the higher the crack is. But I prefer smaller distances between the placements when taking falls. As some people already commented, if one piece blew out, you'd have big trouble.
I suppose if I were climbing sth at my limit, I'd be placing a lot more gear...
Good on you for falling on trad, not many people do!
The way I deal with these type of issues is to subject myself to lesser forms of climbing (ie, sport/bouldering) so that I build my skills, get used to falling more, and to feel better with lots of runout etc.
Nice :D I have also been "subjecting myself" to those forms of climbing and I found them being very fun :)
I feel like this is a fantastic thing to practice! I’ve been meaning to do some more test falling myself soon. I feel like I can place all the gear I want and feel like it’s bomber but there’s really only one way to find out for sure haha. Thanks for the great vid, glad all your placements worked lol
You're welcome man, glad you enjoyed the video! It is an awesome thing to practise, that's for sure!
That's the thing!! You can usually TELL whether the gear is placed well enough to hold a fall (rock quality, contact with the rock, etc..rating the placements helps, check out videos on how to place and judge trad climbing gear) so rationally you KNOW it will hold a fall. Therefore you aren't (and really shouldn't :D) "testing" the gear but rather how you mentally handle hanging on the gear or taking a fall. Sorry for the geekiness, haha :D
If I remember correctly, I learned to place trad gear and take falls on sport climbs. That way you have a sport bolt backing up your trad placement gear before you take practice falls on your trad placements.
That's a very convenient AND safe way if you can find a sport route with trad placements, Stew L!
Thanks for bringing this up!
yeah thats what I did to practice placing gear and being able to still climb harder grades instead of doing easy climbs just to practice, and after a few falls on gear I started just doing any climb clean if possible. freeing them pesky Sport routes, should start drawing a pink dot on Sport routes that have been climbed clean. 🤣
Very cool...struggeling with the same fear over here....I know my placements are all right but falling on them is a whole diffrent story
It gets better, keep at it!
Great video, I made a video like this a while ago too, climbing at the gunks. It was funny, I did the fall practice then after I went and climbed a nice roof with a very clean fall and still felt pretty gripped, even after taking a series of falls sometimes with my feet above the gear below me. I need to get out and do this again, its a perishable skill.
Thanks!
I went and watched your video, thumbs up for working on your falling skill, it's a tough one which a lot of people avoid!
Couldn't that have been because you were practising falls on different terrain (vertical/slightly overhung) and the fall from the roof felt unfamiliar?
Also did the practise falls feel good/comfortable? It's hard to tell from a video whether or not the catches were soft and how relaxed the leader feels.
It's a long way (for both/all of us) to get comfortable falling in all safe scenarios and terrain..I myself definitely need to re-read Espresso Lessons from Arno Ilgner and put it to practise more - if you haven't read it I highly recommend it!!
Sorry for such a long comment, got a bit carried away with a topic I am passionate about🙂
Keep up the great work!
Grigrin is developed as a safety device for bolted climbing where the bolts meet UIAA standards. It should NOT be used for traditional climbing where you put your own fuses.
In the right hands, Grigrin is a safe and very flexible aid for securing and has many advantages over other securing tools for sports and indoor climbing. But it does require you to pay attention and use it properly.
Grigrin can eliminate some hazards when securing, but not all. In addition to training at Grigrin, you must also receive training in general principles of hedging.
Read Petzl's instructions carefully before using Grigrin.
Thanks for your opinion man, appreciate it!
Myth
Paráda, zas další fajn video. Už sem si říkal, kdy bude další. Ale vím, že je to těžší než napsat článek na blog. Dobrá práce! Btw, kde to jsi na skále ? Někde v Jeseníkách ?
Ahoj Radku, díky že se sem vracíš, jsem rád že se video líbí..jj je to na Bradle, kousek od Libiny. Cesta je začátek "Sekvencí" a dolez Kučného koutem.
I wouldn't recommend hanging on the rope on your first piece to practice checking it.. if it comes out, you're orientated in a way that puts your ass into the ground. Better to clip a sling to it and bounce on it from a 3 point stance. 2 hands and a foot on the wall and bounce foot in the sling bouncing on the sling while maintaining a balanced stance. I'm not saying you shouldn't hang on your first piece in general. I've fallen on my first piece many times when climbing routes with hard cruxes off the ground. But if you're a noobie practicing, then that's not the safest way.
One of the safest ways to practice gear placements and which is the way I instruct when I guide is having my clients aid while on TR. Standing on every piece they place, seeing how the gear interacts with weight on it.
Overall good video.
Thanks for the input man, good info!
I did my first trad climbing yesterday. What a scary experience...
What was scary about it? It definitely takes some getting used to but once you fall for it you can never go back to only sport climb! :)
@@KubaClimbsRocks The fear of falling, of course ;)
I had no confidence if I placed the gear correctly, will it hold me, will I be able to get it back, etc. Also, it was my first outdoor climg this year, so it felt so different that the simplicity of top-rope gym climbing.
But yeah, I just need to get used to it and grow my confidence.
Yep the transition period from the gym to outdoors after winter is always a struggle for me too! Hopefully we can get over it asap and start crushing!💪😃
Great vid! Where did you film this? (Looked like granite but some of the neighboring routed had rings?)
Thanks Bernd! The crag is called Bradlo, and the material according to the guidebook is 'Quartzite', whatever that might mean. It does have a bit of a granite feel to it..
The older routes do have the classic ring bolts, good observation!
It looks like you are using DMM Dragon Cams. Those are great bombers, I love mine.
Just getting into trad leading this year. When practicing falls, I would go to a sport route and run through a bolt then place the cam above. Take a super whipper knowing you will not deck if the piece blows. Still learning about rope drag and directionals.
I am still sketched out by trad gear especially when you have to rely on an anchor belay position knowing that if it fails, it is death for you and your second - that can be some nightmare material but we are getting it!
Climb on and thanks for the video!
You are welcome, glad you liked it!
Yep DMM make such good gear, absolutely love cams, offsets and nuts.
I remember being sketched out about the anchors too, as there was a higher chance of the 2nd falling than of me falling when leading..I always make sure I am 120% sure before I shout 'on belay'..extra minute can mean the difference...
Keep it up and enjoy learning the craft of trad climbing!
@@KubaClimbsRocks Thanks, bro!
Loving every minute even when it scares the shit out of me.
Keep sending!
I've heard that you shouldn't belay a trad climb with a grigri, the autolocking feature means that during a catch a higher amount of tension is put through the system more quickly, increasing the chances of a piece ripping. Obviously this isn't a problem if sport climbing.
Hi Jay, thanks for pointing it out! I myself had no idea before someone commented this exact thing couple weeks ago!
Good reminder not to get lazy and use the ATC on trad instead of the somewhat comfy grigri.
@@KubaClimbsRocks You can search it up, I believe petzl did the math, tested it and said that a grigri gives no concernable differnece in belaying or force of the fall
That is a myth.
Myth
Why do you want to unlearn grabbing the rope while falling?
Hey Peter! I
feel that it is being nervous and tense about the fall that's making me grab the rope..I'd like to make falling feel totally normal, to the point where I am not scared at all - apart from the situations where I should be scared, haha.
If you grab a loop of rope you can lose a finger
If, however, you learn to place both hands on the knot it stops your arms flailing around and whacking the rockface. I would practise falling with a toprope setup, or a bolted pro and on an overhang, then progress to falling on cams. Or practise in a gym.
@@mountbeckworth1 I don't recall ever whacking the rockface with my arms..Tbh I would be more worried about not having my hands there to help to stay clear of the rockface.
I would not recommend this!
If you are not super experienced in putting in bomber gear, this is a good way to get injured.
We practiced trad in a similar way as shown in this video and a nut came out when loaded. My friend not only injured his hand and butt but also ripped his 200€ Ortovox pants when he hit the rock in the less than vertical terrain.
I recommend climbing a steep and bolted route and putting gear just above the bolts before falling on it. This way, you have a solid backup. Eventually, sure, follow this guy's (not-)tutorial.
Obviously, taking falls on bad gear is not a good thing. - this guy
Nice video ! However I would choose another belayer device , for example a Petzl Reverso , as the Grigri put so much more tension to the placed gear.
Thanks! Yeah so they say, I am still not totally convinced about that..do you have any personal experience with the different belay devices for trad?
Pleas use top rope backup always when testing trad gear. If your goal is to get comfortable as you say falling on trad gear then your goal is not a good one. Falling on trad gear is inherently more dangerous than bolted routes. Getting more comfortable in your placements by limited testing is great, but your goal should be not to fall on trad gear.
Thanks for the comment man, I can see that you mean well :)
What happens then if the gear pulls which it can very easily after the 1st fall as it could move or damage the rock
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. When you fall on a piece of gear and it pulls out, it might leave scratches on the rock. If I place a piece in bad rock, it can rip out a piece of rock with it.
that looks scary !!!
Hey Federico, you are right, I would be lying if I said I wasn't scared! But after a couple of falls/falling sessions, it doesn't seem that bad, it can actually start to be quite the opposite, fun!
@@KubaClimbsRocks Hey Kuba, thx for your reply. I've purchased a trad kit recently.... so I'll be carefully puting this techniques to the test. Already found a route where I can keep a secondary top rope belay for extra safety. Keep up the good content and have a happy 2021. Cheers from Argentina!
@@federicoezequielmackin You're welcome! Stay safe out there and have fun!
What cams are you using in this vid?
Hey man, these are DMM Dragons I believe! :) My favourite brand! :D
@@KubaClimbsRocks do you recommend them? (If you’ve tried them)
@@dhscfsgdcvf Do I recommend them? Hell yeah!🙂
@@dhscfsgdcvf I hate them! ;)
@@deathmetalhablo dang, why?
Terrifying dude haha, great vid though
Thanks, haha :D Falling must be bread & butter for you, given the level you climb at!
@@KubaClimbsRocks I can take some mean whippers on bolts but gear......... next level bro 😂
Gotta take this vid with a grain of salt. Seldom are you so close to an anchor when you fall. Especially if you're alpining, your anchors could be many meters apart. These fabbed falls are awfully conservative, but if practicing like this helps inspire confidence whatever gets you further up the mountain
Thanks for the comment @Parker Jones🙂 Awfully conservative is what I need to be if I am ever to get awfully comfortable with falling 🙂
Protip: watch at 1.3x speed.
Thanks for the tip, I will try what it feels like to speak 30% faster than my normal speed 😃
@@KubaClimbsRocks that's the spirit! Lol
It's ok, its also the content, it's not much really happening on the screen so a speed up is useful.
@@TarikVann Fair point,I always appreciate a well meant feedback, thanks Tarik! That's how I can keep improving :)
Practicing falling on gear is great - though it seems to me that if that piece blows, you may not end up far from the deck (hard to tell from the vid). Even if not, I find the lack of backup pieces negligent.. If newer climbers are to be taking inspiration from this (which, if well done, I think they should), they ABSOLUTELY SHOULD put some backup pieces.
Even experienced climbers - sometimes a seemingly bomber placement blows, hidden fractures in the rock etc....
Good point dude!!
It would be good to stack double or triple the pieces as back up. The lower pieces can have longer runners so that they don't interfere with the top piece. Some of those falls would be grounders if that one piece failed. Remember it isn't only the placement. Carabiners can fail due to triaxial loading. When we climb for real our first back up is not falling when we plan to fall I would always double or triple up since even a 20' ground fall could be deadly if a temporary hold then fail of a piece could put you head first. Also, notice how lower pieces can be pulled when the rope goes tight.
Hey guys thanks for the advice, I definitely hear you!! Although I felt comfortable taking falls on those pieces of pro, backing them up would have been the smart thing to do, just like you said.
@@KubaClimbsRocks The video is a good one. Usually do it at the beginning of each season to get my head straight. Thanks for the vid.
His advice in the video was to do exactly that, doubling up or even having a toprope backup, and this is definitely how you should do this, not the way he does it. Also if you're testing gear, don't run it out so close to the ground, you are seriously one blown piece away from dying or being paralyzed for life.
Thanks dude, you're welcome glad you enjoyed it!:)
That's right Govanification, I should probably stick to my own advice more - preach what you teach, otherwise it'll come back to bite me in the a** :D
3:36 shows the importance of having a multi-directional piece as your first piece. When you took the fall it created an outward pull on the nut, which can also happen even if you fall before placing any other gear. It's always best to place a cam, and if you can't then try to place a nut that would also hold an outward pull, like a deep constriction!
Spot on advice Max, thanks!! I'll keep this in mind from now on!
My advice is get good advice on gear placements from someone more experienced than you, climb low grades, progress to higher grades but keep it pg, get a sense for how far you can comfortably go above gear, then in a controlled setting with bomber gear backed up, take a fall from the upper end of “comfortable runout at your max attained grade.” So if you have only climbed 5.8, and you ran out 10 feet but felt a little uneasy, take a fall 7 feet above good gear. Or if you only feel comfortable sewing up your routes and placing gear every 2 feet, take a fall from 2 feet above a piece. Name of the game is to figure out if your judgement is good. If after a 15 foot fall you are terrified and shaking, maybe place more gear, and if after a 2 foot fall you are feeling super comfy, maybe try going a little farther between placements. I know starting out it may be a little difficult to acknowledge a risk youve taken while climbing that was not worth it, and many people have, I know a few. But testing what you think your comfortable with might be a little wake up to the overconfident beginner. Or it might make the conservative and nervous climber a bit more confident. Or you may have a good sense of what is acceptable risk. If you are a beginner and youre comfortable running out 20 feet, take a controlled 40 foot fall on gear and see how comfortable you really are. Then you might dial it back a bit. Or you might be adam ondra. But for the love of god don’t make your first whipper a gear ripper, thats what my roommate did and I think he is a moron. Rock climbing is dangerous and every fall can result in injury. Be safe kids
☝️Good advice. Thanks for taking the time to put all this together 🙂
I'd suggest, if you're intending to whip on a piece, then back it up with another piece right below. You would have hit the ground if some of these pieces pulled that you were testing here (see 2:16 ). But hey, it was a good piece and you only weighted it.
Good suggestion🙂
Watching you climb above your gear and then fall is so nerve wrecking! Sitting here with my palms sweating. Keep it up, hope to start getting over my fear of falling on trad and pushing some grades.
Thanks Daniel! Have fun with it, take your time and let me know how the progress is coming along!
Nice. My cams are waiting to finally be used so this came along nicely. Planned to do some testing myself once I'm back on the granite. :)
Thanks! Get those cams plugged in some nice cracks, that's what they are for!:D
How I learned to climb, and trust my gear, was to top rope a route near my house, and place gear as if I was leading. Then, with a short knotted rope take small falls on that gear while still on top rope.
Sounds like a really safe way to get comfortable with gear, thanks!
Finally someone testing the gear!!! Gracias amigo !!!if you're around san Francisco C.A let's climb!
De nada! Glad you enjoyed the vid :) I'm based in Europe, the Czech republic..feel free to give me a shout if you're ever over the big pond:)
Why is the sling doubled when you place pro, but just before you clip, you open the sling up? Is the doubled configuration for storage?
You can also clip the doubled sling, extending it is mainly tu reduce rope drag. Having it extended on the hanesss might be too long for comfort, it would swing everywhere.
Practice makes perfect, I’ll be doing the same when I start climbing trad 💪🏻
Exactly, can't get better if you are not constantly trying!
Nervous for you! I will do anything to avoid falling in trad gear!
I used to avoid falling even on sport routes, and I still get scared now! However, sessions like these help me a ton to get more comfortable above bolts/gear. It's a work in progress tho :)
me parece arriesgado y peligroso quedarse colgado de un solo punto de estas características
Gracias para comentar! If the gear's good, then I'd say it's alright to hang/fall on a single piece of gear. Sorry, my Spanish is pretty basic, hopefully that's what you meant:)
@@KubaClimbsRocks thanks for your answer. also my english is not so good.
@@KubaClimbsRocks testing trad without a backup rope? Maybe better to be cautious on the testing; still gives you the answer you want.
@@maartenhart1160 @Maarten Hart
The back up rope is a great method for sure, very safe!!
My aim was to build trust in the gear I KNEW was good. If I couldn't tell a good placement from a bad one, I wouldn't be building my comfort zone with trad falls. I would be learning how to place gear properly.
Nice one
Thanks man!
Proč by mělo být chytání lana zlozvyk? Já to dělám už léta.
Ahoj Pavle, dík za komentář! Moje chyba, měl jsem to trochu rozvést...Přijde mi, že při pádu kdy se chytnu lana nejsem tak uvolněnej a neužiju si ho tolik. To je hlavní důvod proč bych se tomu chtěl vyhýbat v budoucnu.
Taky jsem četl (tuším Rock Warrior's Way), že chytat se lana "by se mělo" jen v situacích kdy hrozí že se při pádu do něj zamotáš, hrozí totiž že se ti do něj chytne prst a zlomí se. Neslyšel jsem ale o nikom komu by se to stalo, takže to může být puntíčkářská metodika, kdoví.
@@KubaClimbsRocks Nevím no, já to dělám intuitivně. Jednou, když jsem padal z velkého převisu, se mi smekla levá noha, byl jsem nalezenej nad posledním jištěním a při pádu jsem se otočil a pravou nohu hodil přes lano. Skončil jsem téměř ve vodorovné pozici s pravou nohou tyčící se směrem vzhůru. Dodnes mám na stehně a pod kolenem stopu po spálenině. Tenkrát jsem lano také chytil, dokonce oběma rukama a troufám si tvrdit, že jsem následné zranění zmírnil. To jen tak jedna příhoda z lezení.
Are ropes heavy?
Depends on the rope and your definition of heavy 🙂for example 1m of a 9.8mm rope can be around 61g i.e. 60m = 3.66kg 🙂
Prečo sa chces odnaučiť chytanie sa lana ked padáš....však to sa práve má robiť aby ťa neotočilo dole hlavou ?
Ahoj Miro, dík za komentář! Přijde mi, že při pádu kdy se chytnu lana nejsem tak uvolněnej a neužiju si ho tolik. To je hlavní důvod proč bych se tomu chtěl vyhýbat v budoucnu.
Taky jsem četl (tuším Rock Warrior's Way), že chytat se lana "by se mělo" jen v situacích kdy hrozí že se při pádu do něj zamotáš, hrozí totiž že se ti do něj chytne prst a zlomí se. Neslyšel jsem ale o nikom komu by se to stalo, takže to může být puntíčkářská metodika, kdoví.
@@KubaClimbsRocks diky za odpoveď. jasné je to každého vec ja to nerozporujem. Za mňa teda, vždy sa chytať :D uzlu. Hlavne ked lezeš po vlastnom, a nahodou by si niečo počas pádu vytrhol tak ťa otočí dole hlavou. Videl som také filmy od belgického alpine clubu, točené Sean O´Driscollom, inak velmi pekné odporučam. Borci tam lezú prvovýstupy novýmy bigwallmi po vlastnom v 99% a tam je vidno pri tých velkých pádoch ako moc to pomože ked sa držíš lana. Ale nevnucujem ti to :)
www.mntnfilm.com/en/filmography/sean-villanueva-o-driscoll
@@miroslavkysela7073 super, kouknu na to! Díky moc 🙂
Rock climbing is dangerous and blah blah blah. Blah blah blah 😅😂🤣
awsome vid ! very important topic, head is most important tool ;)
Thanks Bartek! Yep, training your head as well as your body is the key :D Easier said than done..
Multiple falls on the same piece were concerning, especially without a backup piece or separate TR system. At the minimum, I would double check the placement if it is still bomber before taking another fall...
Maybe it is the camera but it seemed like the runouts between gear placements were pretty long, about your body length. That would freak me out.
I also have the rope grab habit 😅 and videos like this are really great.
Yep the runouts were pretty decent! I wasn't too concerned, but maybe I should have been, who knows..luckily I lived to tell the tale ;):D Thanks for the comment man!
hi, nice video, and I suspect this is an issue for many. just a tips, I may be wrong, but too me it looks like your second piece of protection, a blue cam, seems to be placed between loose rock. If this is not wrong, please remember to always place active protection (cams) that expand when falling on them, in sold rock, If this is what I suspect, then those blocks, and the cam have a good chance of falling out,
Thanks for the comment man! Good tip for sure, the rock quality around that placement definitely could have been better, tho I made a judgement call at that moment and decided it was okay.
I'd say both active and passive pro should only be placed in solid rock, don't you think? In an ideal world..I know I have placed some very questionable pieces in my climbing life😄
My first fall was a whip on a .2 and it was a much bigger fall than any of these 😬
Mine was a 15 footer onto a #4 BD nut.
Jesus Luke, the smallest cam I own is .3 and I don't really "like"/trust that one! :D Did id influence your confidence afterwards?
Haha that's a pretty nice fall on such a small piece of metal! What was your longest fall, seeing that your first one was already almost 5 meters? :D
@@KubaClimbsRocks Probably only about 6.5 meters, but a lot further off the ground. The first fall was one of those ones that catches you buy surprise because I did something dumb and just barndoored off.
@@brandonwhite6421 Lol you got me beat, that’s crazy!
“I think this is how you use a grigri”😂
:D :D classic Ian
Thanks for this! I've not fallen on trad yet either, so I'm going to try it for myself, although I think I'd place a back up piece of gear just in case 😳💩 I like the idea of weighting each piece after you place it.
You're very welcome! :) Definitely back everything up, safety first!
Weighting each piece carefully is a good confidence booster - if the piece you placed is good and holds :D Otherwise not so much :D
Let me know how it goes :)
@@KubaClimbsRocks Managed to get out this afternoon for the first time in 6 months or so! Definitely need to get my head game sorted out, I was crapping myself leading again! Didn't get a chance to weigh each peace though, I'll make sure to do it next time.
@@StevenSugref Oh man, stoked for you! It's been at least 4 months since I last climbed, I am sure my head game will be in a similar place :D
You NEVER EVER EVER EVER belay the leader with a grigri on trad. Climbing!!!! Sportclimbing on bolts? Fine, but Never on nuts, CAMs or anything trad!!!
Thanks for the comment man, that sounds like a very strong opinion, kudos for voicing it.
I reckon this topic has been discussed a ton already, apparently using a grigri would be a risk in case your protection is not solid. In those cases ATC would be preferable ...
My advice would be to have a GOOD BELAYER and place BOMBER GEAR :)