For more information about mashing temperature and enzymes, here are 2 links:- byo.com/article/understanding-enzymes-homebrew-science/ www.murphyandson.co.uk/resources/technical-articles/enzymes-in-the-brewing-process/
As a very hands on brewer I find the S40 the perfect set up. I like to brew without automation except for temp control and without trying to copy any commercial brews. The one thing that set me back in starting with the S40 was the weight of the grainbasket when doing a 10 gallon brew. Not only is the basket very heavy but also needs to be lifted a fair way up. I solved this by adding an electric cable hoist. I can now lift the basket with ease and lift it clear of the wort which is not possible when resting the basket on the lugs it is fitted with. Now looking at the new SF50 to add to my set up.
Buying this and making 2 modifications. Cam lock the recirculation arm and put a hole in the lid for recirculation to save that secondary element from having to run hot all the way through the mash. That 1000w secondary element is a great feature, the 250w element in a Brewzilla just can't keep a mash in range when brewing in cooler weather. The double skin is cool too, I was wrecking my head looking for a jacket for the S40 but now I see why they didn't manufacture one (it also screws with the electronics if you fit one from what I understand)
Hi David, I have heard that the legs on the grain basket are not very sturdy and don't suffer any lateral movement, eg when removing grain after brewing you have to be careful not to tilt the basket on its legs. Thanks
Excellent video David and very helpful sir. I have discussed both systems with my home brewing friends and the con census of opinion is that all of them would rather have the G40. A few have said they would still have the G30 over the S40. Having said all that if I was new to home brewing I think I would go for the S40 as I think it seems a good starting brewing system. On another note I am drinking your Dunkelweizen recipe beer and it is lovely . I have had some very positive comments from it and my mate Michael Halls who you may be familiar with loved it.
Cheers, great to hear that yourself and Michael are enjoying the Dunkel :) The S40 is certainly the budget system of Grainfathers range. Its not going to suit everyone but it sure would suit some people. Naturally I am far more excited about the G40 but it is a much more expensive system.
Hi David, I've just used the S40 for the first time and cannot understand how to allow for the dead space at the bottom of the boiler between the base and the grain basket.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew what does he mean by "dead space" at the bottom of the boiler? I guess there is a gap between the bottom of the grain basket and the bottom of the kettle itself. Why would this be a problem that he must "allow for"???
Thank you for the review David, concise and to the point as usual. I will probably buy this as it allows for a full volume mash when doing 23 liter batches, as it's what I normally go for. My normal set up is BIAB and this system would allow me to do BIAB for smaller batches and sparge for bigger ones.
Interesting. How does GF recommend keeping hops out of the pump/chiller? Whirlpool? Hop spider? Weird that the G40 has a dual stage false bottom/filter to keep matter out of the pump, but the S40 has nothing. Is it simply outlet location?
Seeing you're last two videos, frist the one I am interested in G40 however I would hope for an update on the G70 then I may buy it. it is lovely to see all your videos so we can pick and choose with confidence. Thanks for your effort David 🙏😊
Cheers Allan. Certain parts of the G70 that have been upgraded on the G40 are unlikely to be changed but certainly the grain basket can be. Unless GF decide to redesign a new version of the G70. Unlikely I would think for quite some time.
I heard that the controller won’t kick on elements till it drops 3 degrees, that true? That would seem less than ideal for maintaining certain mash temps. Also does the controller read in Fahrenheit?
Recent owner of S40 here. Im thinking of getting a heat exchanger to chill my wort instead of the immersion chiller. What filteration do you suggest in order not to clog the pump of the S40? False bottom or a hop spider?
Interesting. David, as a user of bog-standard G30 (no connectivity required) does this machine offer a step up, please? Price point attracts. Do you see an option of retaining the counter flow chiller for this application and what are the fasteners around the top for - looks too big for affixing the alembic dome?
Thanks Peter. Certainly if you are looking for more brew flexibility around volume and can withstand the loss of connectivity then this is an interesting prospect for the price.
So much great and interesting information once again David! I think Grainfather made a smart move in bringing a cheaper system to market and at the same time making it pipeless. Though I am thinking the G40 is where my future is. That extra grain basket size is tempting though....
Thanks for the Review. I hope my question is not too stupid, but did I understand you right that it is only possible to program one temperature Zone at the time, so you have to change between rests manual by rising temperature and time for the next Zone? Or is it possible to program a Full mash program? Thanks
David, looks like a Mash and Brew on steriods. Having used the Mash and Brew my problem is the heating element location. I consistently get scorching and sometimes that effects the boil. Will this be a problem with the S40? Thank you for all your work🍻
Ive not used the mash and brew being in Europe but so far ive not had any scorching with the S40. It does not had low watt density heating elements though, so it is possible.
Thank you for your reply, I did email them they didn't really answer my question. They said they would continue to make parts. There is a second hand S40 for sale at a good price but I don't want to be stuck with a faulty machine.
So far Ive not used anything to contain or block hops and its worked out just fine. According to GF they did not include one because during their testing it was found to be unnecessary. There are certainly plenty of after market solutions if you find this to be a problem.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew that’s really good to know. I guess it’s down to the position and size of the port huh? I am pretty excited about this system now!
Great video as usual. When transferring to a fermenter at the end do you use the pump and recirculation arm or just transfer from the tap at the bottom.
Hi David, very informative channel! Much appreciated. Quick question, from purely a quality and longevity point of view, which has better (or are they same?) build and component quality in your opinion between the BZ35 Gen 4 and the GF S40?
Thanks David for this comprehensive review of the S40. Have you confirmed with GF that the S40 burners are low watt density (like the G40 and G70) to prevent scorching and carmelization? Thanks
Hi David, I was wondering about the filtration of the grain in the grainbasket. I saw (atleast I think I saw). While boiling that some grain particles were also boiling? Isn’t that kinda a bad thing? Because of the extraction of some tannins? Or isn’t that so bad? Also if I may ask.. I wanted to buy either a g30 or s40. What would you suggest? They have some pros and cons but it seems that the s40 is more simple to use than the g30? Thanks in advance! Love your channel❤
A small amount of grain is fine, especially these days. Many breweries add boiling water into mash tanks. The modern malting process is way in advance of this being a concern.
Interesting, David. The S40 manual says to “set the temperature to 103°C (218°F)”, which it will never reach and consequently never trigger the timer. If it works at 100ºC why they ask to set it to 103º and time it manually?
Hei David, with it being black Friday there's some interest deals here in Norway. The g30 and s40 are available for a similar price. If you had to choose.......which would you buy?. Many thanks Richard
@@DavidHeathHomebrew excellent, many thanks for your advice. I'm quite torn between the 2. I like the idea of the cfc that comes with the g30 but the no overflow pipework of the s40 also appeals. I suppose the cfc will soon be able to be used with the s40👍👍
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I totally understand that. No one would ever expect you to buy one just to review it. Maybe one of their local distributors or stores would be willing let you review one, would be good publicity for them.
Good review David, you seem to have confirmed my feelings about the S40 - simple/basic system but with Grainfather quality and at a price not too much higher than the other budget systems. One question though, you didn't mention much about the lid, I couldn't help notice that there is no opening for the recirculation arm. I was surprised because the only time I ever use the lid on my current All In One is during the mash as it's a big part of reducing the heat loss.
Thanks Neil. The lid was pretty redundant in my testing. I guess its there if you want to apply it between steps with the recirc turned away. Its not used during mashing, like the G40 the S40 is an open mash system
The lid is pointless,especially when raising temperature to 100 degrees ,you can't see the boil Also you have to do a open mash,basically marking it harder to retain a constant temp
Greetings yet again David...I lost track of things - for some reason, I wasn't receiving news from Grainfather or notifications from RUclips on subscriptions... I knew absolutely nothing on these new models - totally oblivious until I was poking around and came across your comparisons. I mentioned to you that I "upgraded" my G30 to camlocks, false bottom, etc. and was wondering what you thought about using the Brewzilla whirlpool arm with my G30...they're cheap enough - as are all Robobrew/Brewzilla parts vs GF's...
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Well - someone posted a 30 second video and it certainly created a small whirlpool. I am thinking that it might consolidate the hops if used in conjunction with the GF aerator/WP paddle...connect it after hitting it with the paddle...but I am thinking I will wait until a few more Brezilla folks field test it. I have a habit of going out and pimping and blinging up my toys LOL!
Has anyone found a way to change the setting between C and F? I am in Canada and the unit is in F but I normally brew in C. It's not insurmountable but it is annoying. I can only find instructions on the G series.
There are instructions but they do not cover this. From memory if you go all the way up in temp via the controller it will then move into the alternative temp type once you move past the highest temperature.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I tried that and unfortunately it just looped the F setting. I was quite surprised to see it went as low as 40F. I'll keep poking away at this, thank you for the answer anyway.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I contacted Grainfather and they told me. Turn the unit off with the button, not the switch. So the screen is dark, then hold in Set, the F will start flashing, use the +/- buttons and it will switch.
Thanks David, nice rundown on the unit. I noticed that Grainfather state the minimum grain bill for the S40 is 5kg. This would limit one to only "full strength" beers for a single batch, which seems limiting. Am I misunderstanding this figure? Why would there be a minimum grain bill? Cheers!
Hey David, thanks for the overview. Sorry if I missed it in the video, how long does it take to get from ~18˚c (household tap temperature) to ~65˚c and also how long does it take to get from ~65˚c to ~100˚c?
Hi Mark, I am sorry but I have not run those tests yet on the S40. However, seeing as there are two new Kegland units coming very soon I am thinking about a big comparison video comparing various systems and the S40 could be featured within this for such tests.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I bought an s40 and ran a quick test. 25l at 14˚c to 68˚c took 45 minutes. I'll certainly use the timer delay but couldn't figure out how to delay the start with hours AND minutes (seems like you can only delay from 0-24hours, not 6hrs 30mins)
Hi David I have a problem with my S40 when boiling the wort I don’t get a boil timer the boiling point where I am is 99 degrees I set the boil to 103 as per the instructions. I did a test setting the s40 to 99 degrees and it switched to the timer but stopped the heating simply displaying warming. Am I missing something here or do you think my s40 is faulty?
It doesnt sound good Andrew. Naturally if you lived at a high elevation then your boiling point could be 99 but I take it that this is not the case. Sounds like you need to speak with where you bought it for a fix.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew be spoken to Grainfather they seem to be suprised I’m at 1500 feet elevation on top of the Pennines. It’s not a serious problem I use the app to time my boil and additions just a niggle really I’m drinking your dark mild as I type this. That was my first brew on the s40 so it certainly produces great beer.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew yes I’m going to do I have also found out there is another machine that shares the same controller and that you can calibrate the temperature by pressing the plus hand minus buttons… I’ve yet to confirm this but have a brew day next week and will test. I have a all grain Wherry to brew as a experiment?
Hi David, good video as always. I'm enjoying these thorough reviews as I'm keen to see how my system (klarstein Mundschenk 30L) compares. Have you had chance to use that system? I actually see some upsides to it relative to the S40 and even G30 where value for money is concerned.
Thank you. I have tested a couple of the Klarstein systems but I wasnt so impressed. Not the one you mention though. I avoid covering things that I struggle to recommend.
Hi David, thanks for the info. Very helpful. Where I live, I can get S40 or Brewzilla 35L Gen 3.1 for about same price. Which one would you recommend? Thanks
Hi, the Brewzilla has more up to date heating, (low watt density) which makes it faster, no burning on the bottom plus a lighter wort. The controller is also more advanced. So really that is better value.
The primary provider of maltose is beta amylase which is active between 55 to 65C. At 65 it will denature pretty fast. This controller can go above and below this.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I meant maltase that renders maltose into dextrose at much lower temperatures around 35C I seem to remember. The mash step is most commonly used in wheat beer brewing (Method developed by Weihenstephan). I want to use it for belgian strong ales though and this seems a good size bewing system for the application.
Love you videos, I find them very informative, I'm thinking of upgrading from my stove top brewing and was looking at the brewmonk then you come along and review this, all confused again 🤔🤔🤔, would this be suitable for two - three gallon batches? As it's only me that drinks my lovely homebrew, all advice appreciated, keep up the good work 🍻🍻
Many thanks Keith. Yes will work well within this range. Just be aware that at the lower end of this you will need to do a little stirring if you are below the minimum grainbill size to keep effeciency levels.
Hi David, great overview. Here, where I live, I can get Brewzilla 35l or Grainfather S40 at similar prices (50 eur difference). What would you recommend? P. S. Difference in volume is not the most important aspect as I will mainly brew single batches.
Hi Zoran, my preference would be the Brewzilla 35 or better still the 65 for some extra. The heating elements are modern low watt density where as the S40 has the old style. Furthermore the build quality is higher on the Brewzillas along with having a better controller.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Many thanks for the reply, David. It helps when someone with your experience and knowledge gives advice, it's much appreciated :) I'm really surprised that Grainfather didn't position themselves as the best "budget" option with the S40 if they decided to enter that segment.
I’m not sure what everyone else thinks but I find the recirculation arm to be oddly not centered in the pot. It’s too short. Also it would have been better if they had a hole in the center of the lid for the recirculation arm so it made less of a mess. Also it’s odd that they put a gasket on the lid and have clamps but have three little vent holes immediately next to the gasket. I’m considering cutting a hole in the center and getting a bulkhead tri clover which can double as a handle. Then I’m hoping the brewzilla recirculation arm can be bent to fit as it looks longer of course after doing the camlock modification.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I know but I don’t want to cut a hole off Center. That also makes it not level if I want to use it. But I’ve found that it splashes out of the pot using the wort spreader. I have to turn the valve down quite a bit and I don’t have that much liquid on top. Less than they recommend in the instructions.
Hi David, great review as always and thanks for sharing. Quick question as I'm looking at investing in a new system and currently use a G30, are there any downsides to the S40? As this seems to good to be true and why would somebody go for a G40 over an S40? Cheers
Thanks Richard. Advantages are pretty big when comparing G40 to S40. Here are some key areas:- much better build quality, better controller (big area this) , more powerful and advanced heating, better cooling system. You get what you pay for. The S40 is very trimmed down to hit its budget price.
Hmm its not naff, its simply a budget option and the cheapest of Grainfathers brewing systems. Certainly the G30 has its advantages though the S40 beats the G30 in terms of volume flexibility being the larger system plus it has that overflow pipeless design. So really it depends on budget alongside wants and needs. One thing is for sure, the GF range certainly has more options :)
Just subscribed to your channel and have spent the last 4 hours watching your videos as im looking to buy my first ag boiler as i usually make beer from kits but have done a couple of ag brews but find it hard to to keep constant temperatures so i think a boiler will be the way forward for me and will also be easier than using a stock pot on my cooker, the s40 is within my budget and i have saw 1 for sale at a realy good price, what are the cons of the s40? I did read about the pump clogging up as 1 con, the price is £60 cheaper than any other s40's i have saw for sale, should i go for it as my first boiler? If you say yes then i will buy it 🙂
I will make about 6 brews per year about 5 gallon per brew using recipes from dave lines book brewing beers like those you buy and after a while might atempt trying my own recipes
Hi, Glad you have found my content useful. The S40 is very basic compared to more expensive systems. The controller being the main basic area. So you will need to change temperature as you go. No big deal really. I would suggest you look at Brewzilla Gen 3 and 4 also. Not a huge amount more but much more for your money.
Hi David, thanks for this nice video. I like the simplicity of the S40 and the higher volume with a higher ABV possibility :-) Do you think the display and buttons on top are wireless? Then it will be possible to create a sort of separate remote controll. The only thing that would be nice is a level glass in stead of a solid pipe. After all it looks like a very nice unit with lots of options.
You've had a better experience than me then with S40, have you tried a maximum capacity brew,? I mean what's the point unless you brew 2 batches in one ,did you not find the lack of filter on the tap a problem? If you brewed full capacity ,the time taken to heat 40 liters 🤷 did you not think the feet on the grain basket are weak ,did you not think about a honest review
This is not a review. It is clearly stated as an overview and first impressions. A review can only come after much more testing of batch sizes of all types. Up to the point of this video I have brewed minimum and one keg batches. Yes, it would seem based on your comments that you had a different experience to me and are judging me based on this being a review, which it clearly isn’t. I am more than happy to call out bad things when I find them and do in this video I might add.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Sorry for questioning you but nowhere had there been any reference to this even the girl on the help desk didn’t know, still enjoy your videos and miss Tony Yates work kind regards from Little Wanangui New Zealand. Hi John, Thank you for your patience. Our tech team have come back to me with the following information; The S40 is a double walled tank. However, the gap between the 2 walls is only about 5~8mm thick so the exterior wall will still be very hot when the water is boiling. I hope this helps! Please don't hesitate to reach out to us again should you require any further assistance. Kind regards, Shannon - Customer Experience Advocate - Grainfather
No worries at all John. Kinda odd that the GF telephone support did not know that but at least you got an answer in the end. Yeah we all miss Tony. He lives 30 mins away from me though.
S40, as the one would assume, is ready for 40 l of beer. Guess again. Total volume is 46 liter, if you don't take possible boil off into account. Mashing limit is about 37 liters. Everything over this will leave grain basket under liguid level. Worst of all issues I came across is incapability to achive and hold temperature set. That should be the main advantage of electric all in one system. This one, unfortunately, failed every time. Temperature overshooting was even 12 C (54 F). Increase from 64 C (147 F) to 76 C (169 F) happend in less than 3 minutes. Had to stop it with ice and cold water. Sensor does not "read" the temp correctly, so target exact temp with S40 is a dream. Keep the worth boiling at 100 C (212F)- have to set it up to 102 C and keep it like that. Overall, it gives more headache than it helps. Definitely looking for another system.
It looks like that they copied the anvil foundry basket design, why not if it works. S40 looks interesting in price and function, If I were not so invested in my next system I would surely consider it.
Hi David. One thing you didn‘t mention is how well the measured temperature correlates to the temperature within the grain bed. At the end of your video you can see the tiny temperature probe knob on the bottom, so it‘s measuring temperature at the bottom of the kettle right next to where the heating element is mounted to the bottom of the bottom. This is the same set-up as in all the chinese manufactured robobrew/brewzilla/klarstein-type all-in-one brewing systems, and it has been my experience (with a „MaltMaster“) that the temperature within the grain bed can be much cooler than the temperature the probe is measuring, especially if the grain bed gets compacted and flow through less. This can be highly misleading and I would guess could greatly effect the final product as far as residual sweetness vs. dryness is concerned, as you might be effectively mashing at a much lower temperature than you think. Also, since the temperature control “believes“ the temperature is higher, the wort above continues to cool down…giving it a good stir re-equalizes the temperature quickly but you can expect a big temperature drop. The only solution I‘ve found is almost continuous stirring during the mash…what‘s your experience and your solution? Perhaps you could brew again with the s40 and monitor the temperature within the grain bed with a thermometer (without stirring too much) and compare it to the temperature measured by the probe at the bottom?
Hi Josh, most brewing systems are made in China these days, even the very expensive ones. When you have liquid of any kind being heated like this, even if it is being recirculated it is not all going to be the same temperature. The difference is even bigger as you go up in scale. So you can imagine how this is with brewery beer batches. As I mentioned in this video, it is about temperature range, not precise temperature. Certainly I found the temp to be acceptable when I checked it, it was within 1 deg C accurate.
I am rather disappointed that they have not used a camlock for the pump arm. I understand that it is a budget system, but it would have only made a $3 price difference. The markings down to 10L would have not cost a penny extra. A 23L batch uses 18-21 litres of water, and a 15L batch quite a bit less. It is almost like if the S40 was an afterthought. Looking at the features that the upcoming Brewzilla 4 will have, I feel that Grainfather have undershot what was possible in that price range, and just put this product out there just to get new brewers into the brand. I also feel that they could have done better with the G40, considering the price point, that is not that far from the Brewtools system, but the features are nowhere close. The only advantage I see is the easier cleaning process as it has fewer parts.
I would have preferred camlocks, though I do really like the 360 swing meaning that you dont need to add and remove more than once. The markings certainly I would rather had more, though my work arounds are pretty easy really. However do keep in mind that at its price the S40 is a system of compromise compared to the G40. Its all about choices though :) I hope you found my content useful.
What isn’t? And what does that matter, really…most commercial systems are made in China. Unfortunately in the current economic climate if you want a lower price, that’s your best option, if you want to pay 3-4 times the price with the hope of better quality (I can only infer that’s what you are implying) then buy European (a choice I made for my car). It comes down to design, quality control and support, and personally I’ve had no support issues with GF since buying one of their first units.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
For more information about mashing temperature and enzymes, here are 2 links:-
byo.com/article/understanding-enzymes-homebrew-science/
www.murphyandson.co.uk/resources/technical-articles/enzymes-in-the-brewing-process/
Cooooooool the overview from David Heath I was waiting for this one ! Excellent review as usual thanks!
Cheers Yannis
As a very hands on brewer I find the S40 the perfect set up. I like to brew without automation except for temp control and without trying to copy any commercial brews. The one thing that set me back in starting with the S40 was the weight of the grainbasket when doing a 10 gallon brew. Not only is the basket very heavy but also needs to be lifted a fair way up. I solved this by adding an electric cable hoist. I can now lift the basket with ease and lift it clear of the wort which is not possible when resting the basket on the lugs it is fitted with. Now looking at the new SF50 to add to my set up.
Sounds good to me Steve, many thanks for sharing 🍻🍻🍻
Buying this and making 2 modifications. Cam lock the recirculation arm and put a hole in the lid for recirculation to save that secondary element from having to run hot all the way through the mash. That 1000w secondary element is a great feature, the 250w element in a Brewzilla just can't keep a mash in range when brewing in cooler weather. The double skin is cool too, I was wrecking my head looking for a jacket for the S40 but now I see why they didn't manufacture one (it also screws with the electronics if you fit one from what I understand)
Sounds great to me Darren. Enjoy 🍻🍻😎
Hi David, I have heard that the legs on the grain basket are not very sturdy and don't suffer any lateral movement, eg when removing grain after brewing you have to be careful not to tilt the basket on its legs. Thanks
I think as long as you handle it in a normal way they will be fine.
Excellent video David and very helpful sir.
I have discussed both systems with my home brewing friends and the con census of opinion is that all of them would rather have the G40.
A few have said they would still have the G30 over the S40.
Having said all that if I was new to home brewing I think I would go for the S40 as I think it seems a good starting brewing system.
On another note I am drinking your Dunkelweizen recipe beer and it is lovely . I have had some very positive comments from it and my mate Michael Halls who you may be familiar with loved it.
Cheers, great to hear that yourself and Michael are enjoying the Dunkel :)
The S40 is certainly the budget system of Grainfathers range. Its not going to suit everyone but it sure would suit some people. Naturally I am far more excited about the G40 but it is a much more expensive system.
Hi David, I've just used the S40 for the first time and cannot understand how to allow for the dead space at the bottom of the boiler between the base and the grain basket.
The easy way is to use the GF calc for S40
@@DavidHeathHomebrew what does he mean by "dead space" at the bottom of the boiler? I guess there is a gap between the bottom of the grain basket and the bottom of the kettle itself. Why would this be a problem that he must "allow for"???
Yes thats right. It goes into the water calculations for mashing essentially.
Thank you for the review David, concise and to the point as usual. I will probably buy this as it allows for a full volume mash when doing 23 liter batches, as it's what I normally go for. My normal set up is BIAB and this system would allow me to do BIAB for smaller batches and sparge for bigger ones.
Great to hear Tachi, I am glad that you found it useful :)
Interesting. How does GF recommend keeping hops out of the pump/chiller? Whirlpool? Hop spider? Weird that the G40 has a dual stage false bottom/filter to keep matter out of the pump, but the S40 has nothing. Is it simply outlet location?
Apparently GF did test the G40 with filters but it was found that they were not needed due to the design. Certainly so far Ive not had any issues.
Seeing you're last two videos, frist the one I am interested in G40 however I would hope for an update on the G70 then I may buy it.
it is lovely to see all your videos so we can pick and choose with confidence.
Thanks for your effort David 🙏😊
Cheers Allan. Certain parts of the G70 that have been upgraded on the G40 are unlikely to be changed but certainly the grain basket can be. Unless GF decide to redesign a new version of the G70. Unlikely I would think for quite some time.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks David
It seems like I always is hanging in the dark 🤣
More options than ever though :)
I heard that the controller won’t kick on elements till it drops 3 degrees, that true? That would seem less than ideal for maintaining certain mash temps. Also does the controller read in Fahrenheit?
Its actually 2.1 deg C. Not a huge deal really, as long as you are in enzyme range.
Recent owner of S40 here.
Im thinking of getting a heat exchanger to chill my wort instead of the immersion chiller. What filteration do you suggest in order not to clog the pump of the S40?
False bottom or a hop spider?
Hi, False bottom for sure, hop spiders mess with efficiency.
Interesting. David, as a user of bog-standard G30 (no connectivity required) does this machine offer a step up, please? Price point attracts. Do you see an option of retaining the counter flow chiller for this application and what are the fasteners around the top for - looks too big for affixing the alembic dome?
Thanks Peter. Certainly if you are looking for more brew flexibility around volume and can withstand the loss of connectivity then this is an interesting prospect for the price.
Thx for sharing. I think G is the route for me but I totally see it’s market offering!
Cheers. Yes, its all about choices :)
So much great and interesting information once again David! I think Grainfather made a smart move in bringing a cheaper system to market and at the same time making it pipeless. Though I am thinking the G40 is where my future is. That extra grain basket size is tempting though....
Thanks Allan, much appreciated. Yes I think so too. Naturally the G40 is the better system if your budget allows for it.
Thanks for the Review. I hope my question is not too stupid, but did I understand you right that it is only possible to program one temperature Zone at the time, so you have to change between rests manual by rising temperature and time for the next Zone? Or is it possible to program a Full mash program? Thanks
No problem Jim. Yes there is no programming, so you need to adjust temperature as you go.
David, looks like a Mash and Brew on steriods. Having used the Mash and Brew my problem is the heating element location. I consistently get scorching and sometimes that effects the boil. Will this be a problem with the S40? Thank you for all your work🍻
Ive not used the mash and brew being in Europe but so far ive not had any scorching with the S40. It does not had low watt density heating elements though, so it is possible.
Is the Thread at the top of the stand pipe same as my G30? I would like to continue using my CFC.
No but adaption would not be impossible 🍻🍻🍻
Unfortunately Grain father has stopped manufacturing this system, does anyone know why?
That would be a question for Grainfather 🍻🍻🍻
Thank you for your reply, I did email them they didn't really answer my question. They said they would continue to make parts. There is a second hand S40 for sale at a good price but I don't want to be stuck with a faulty machine.
@davidpretorius4821 The parts are the most important aspect for sure 🍻🍻
Could the Blichman hopblocker be installed here and would you recommend it to block large hop additions?
So far Ive not used anything to contain or block hops and its worked out just fine. According to GF they did not include one because during their testing it was found to be unnecessary. There are certainly plenty of after market solutions if you find this to be a problem.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew that’s really good to know. I guess it’s down to the position and size of the port huh? I am pretty excited about this system now!
I believe so, coupled with design in general.
Great video as usual. When transferring to a fermenter at the end do you use the pump and recirculation arm or just transfer from the tap at the bottom.
You can go either way, I prefer the pump method personally.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thx
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Hi David, very informative channel! Much appreciated. Quick question, from purely a quality and longevity point of view, which has better (or are they same?) build and component quality in your opinion between the BZ35 Gen 4 and the GF S40?
That would be the Brewzilla. The S40 is very basic budget and no frills.
Thanks David for this comprehensive review of the S40. Have you confirmed with GF that the S40 burners are low watt density (like the G40 and G70) to prevent scorching and carmelization? Thanks
Cheers Dan. I believe that the S40 heating is high watt density like the G30. The G40 & S70 are low watt density.
is it possible, if one owns a g30, to use the recirculation cooler? do they both share the same thread/pipe diameter?.
The CFC is the same on both but the connectors are different.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks
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Hi David,
I was wondering about the filtration of the grain in the grainbasket. I saw (atleast I think I saw). While boiling that some grain particles were also boiling? Isn’t that kinda a bad thing? Because of the extraction of some tannins? Or isn’t that so bad?
Also if I may ask.. I wanted to buy either a g30 or s40. What would you suggest? They have some pros and cons but it seems that the s40 is more simple to use than the g30?
Thanks in advance! Love your channel❤
A small amount of grain is fine, especially these days. Many breweries add boiling water into mash tanks. The modern malting process is way in advance of this being a concern.
Hey David - what kind of brew paddle duo you use? Where can I buy one like this?
Greez Brewmurphy
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The wooden mash paddle is locally made and no longer sold, however the SS paddle is from Brewtools.
Does your S40 reaches 100ºC and boils? Mine doesn't and there is only a simmer, not a boil.
Yes it does. If yours does not then it probably has a fault. I would suggest you contact where you bought it.
And does it triggers the timer for the boil?
Yes.
Interesting, David. The S40 manual says to “set the temperature to 103°C (218°F)”, which it will never reach and consequently never trigger the timer.
If it works at 100ºC why they ask to set it to 103º and time it manually?
103 will ensure a stronger boil essentially.
Hei David, with it being black Friday there's some interest deals here in Norway. The g30 and s40 are available for a similar price. If you had to choose.......which would you buy?. Many thanks Richard
Hi Richard, I would say that the S40 is better value personally.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew excellent, many thanks for your advice. I'm quite torn between the 2. I like the idea of the cfc that comes with the g30 but the no overflow pipework of the s40 also appeals. I suppose the cfc will soon be able to be used with the s40👍👍
You can always buy an aftermarket CFC
@@DavidHeathHomebrew you just made up my mind 👍👍
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David, Any plans to do a video on the new Braumeister?
Its not likely. Ive tried contacting them but it seems like they are not interested in reviews.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew That's too bad, it looks like they put in some really nice updates.
Yes. Though I cannot buy it just for a review, I need them to loan me one.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I totally understand that. No one would ever expect you to buy one just to review it. Maybe one of their local distributors or stores would be willing let you review one, would be good publicity for them.
Lets see, I am awaiting a reply for a while now.
Good review David, you seem to have confirmed my feelings about the S40 - simple/basic system but with Grainfather quality and at a price not too much higher than the other budget systems. One question though, you didn't mention much about the lid, I couldn't help notice that there is no opening for the recirculation arm. I was surprised because the only time I ever use the lid on my current All In One is during the mash as it's a big part of reducing the heat loss.
Thanks Neil. The lid was pretty redundant in my testing. I guess its there if you want to apply it between steps with the recirc turned away. Its not used during mashing, like the G40 the S40 is an open mash system
The lid is pointless,especially when raising temperature to 100 degrees ,you can't see the boil
Also you have to do a open mash,basically marking it harder to retain a constant temp
I guess the lid has some effect and you can use the temp display. I just didnt during my brews and testing so far.
It is helpful to keep insects out of the mash, a blow fly doesn’t do it for me stuck in the mash !
Haha me neither but come summer in a commercial brewery insects are all over the mash and boil. All protein I guess!!
I like the simplicity. BUT 2300 watts really well does not instill confidence of a good boil on 11 gallons of wort IMO. Good video! 👍🍻
Cheers Brian. The S40 is double skinned, which is certainly going to help. It did fine on large water tests.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew ok good to know! 👍🍻
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Greetings yet again David...I lost track of things - for some reason, I wasn't receiving news from Grainfather or notifications from RUclips on subscriptions... I knew absolutely nothing on these new models - totally oblivious until I was poking around and came across your comparisons. I mentioned to you that I "upgraded" my G30 to camlocks, false bottom, etc. and was wondering what you thought about using the Brewzilla whirlpool arm with my G30...they're cheap enough - as are all Robobrew/Brewzilla parts vs GF's...
Hi Don, yes there has been much Grainfather news in recent times. Certainly the wp arms are cheap. Just do not have high expectations :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Well - someone posted a 30 second video and it certainly created a small whirlpool. I am thinking that it might consolidate the hops if used in conjunction with the GF aerator/WP paddle...connect it after hitting it with the paddle...but I am thinking I will wait until a few more Brezilla folks field test it. I have a habit of going out and pimping and blinging up my toys LOL!
Hi David, excellent video as usual. Could you upgrade to a cfc with this system? Would the pump handle it?
Thanks Richard. Will some adaption yes. I suspect that GF will provide a kit soon enough.
Has anyone found a way to change the setting between C and F? I am in Canada and the unit is in F but I normally brew in C. It's not insurmountable but it is annoying. I can only find instructions on the G series.
There are instructions but they do not cover this. From memory if you go all the way up in temp via the controller it will then move into the alternative temp type once you move past the highest temperature.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I tried that and unfortunately it just looped the F setting. I was quite surprised to see it went as low as 40F. I'll keep poking away at this, thank you for the answer anyway.
Hmm. Maybe your version is a little different. Try holding down the set button for some seconds.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I contacted Grainfather and they told me. Turn the unit off with the button, not the switch. So the screen is dark, then hold in Set, the F will start flashing, use the +/- buttons and it will switch.
Ok great to hear that you got the solution. Crazy that its not in the manual though!
Thanks David, nice rundown on the unit. I noticed that Grainfather state the minimum grain bill for the S40 is 5kg. This would limit one to only "full strength" beers for a single batch, which seems limiting. Am I misunderstanding this figure? Why would there be a minimum grain bill? Cheers!
Cheers. Yes, this is the minimum for pump only brewing and is based on effeciency. Less can be used if you are happy to do some extra stirring :)
Hey David, thanks for the overview. Sorry if I missed it in the video, how long does it take to get from ~18˚c (household tap temperature) to ~65˚c and also how long does it take to get from ~65˚c to ~100˚c?
Hi Mark, I am sorry but I have not run those tests yet on the S40. However, seeing as there are two new Kegland units coming very soon I am thinking about a big comparison video comparing various systems and the S40 could be featured within this for such tests.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks for the speedy reply :D
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@@DavidHeathHomebrew I bought an s40 and ran a quick test. 25l at 14˚c to 68˚c took 45 minutes. I'll certainly use the timer delay but couldn't figure out how to delay the start with hours AND minutes (seems like you can only delay from 0-24hours, not 6hrs 30mins)
Thanks for the info Mark. I am not sure on the timer but I had an idea you could change the minutes too.
For existing GF owners perhaps it would be useful to provide S40 and G40 options without the chiller. I have three of the GF counter flow chillers.
I see your plight but to offer more versions just adds cost for all.
Hi David I have a problem with my S40 when boiling the wort I don’t get a boil timer the boiling point where I am is 99 degrees I set the boil to 103 as per the instructions. I did a test setting the s40 to 99 degrees and it switched to the timer but stopped the heating simply displaying warming. Am I missing something here or do you think my s40 is faulty?
It doesnt sound good Andrew. Naturally if you lived at a high elevation then your boiling point could be 99 but I take it that this is not the case. Sounds like you need to speak with where you bought it for a fix.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew be spoken to Grainfather they seem to be suprised I’m at 1500 feet elevation on top of the Pennines. It’s not a serious problem I use the app to time my boil and additions just a niggle really I’m drinking your dark mild as I type this. That was my first brew on the s40 so it certainly produces great beer.
Haha, I had the same boiling point at my last house 🍻 You could set it to 100 and see :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew yes I’m going to do I have also found out there is another machine that shares the same controller and that you can calibrate the temperature by pressing the plus hand minus buttons… I’ve yet to confirm this but have a brew day next week and will test. I have a all grain Wherry to brew as a experiment?
Hmm interesting, I do not know if this controller has calibration. Let me know please :)
Hi David, good video as always. I'm enjoying these thorough reviews as I'm keen to see how my system (klarstein Mundschenk 30L) compares. Have you had chance to use that system? I actually see some upsides to it relative to the S40 and even G30 where value for money is concerned.
Thank you. I have tested a couple of the Klarstein systems but I wasnt so impressed. Not the one you mention though. I avoid covering things that I struggle to recommend.
Hi David, thanks for the info. Very helpful. Where I live, I can get S40 or Brewzilla 35L Gen 3.1 for about same price. Which one would you recommend? Thanks
Hi, the Brewzilla has more up to date heating, (low watt density) which makes it faster, no burning on the bottom plus a lighter wort. The controller is also more advanced. So really that is better value.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew awesome. Thanks again David!
Cheers 🍻🍻🍻
What did you say the lowest temperature was? Is it above the range for maltase denaturisation?
The primary provider of maltose is beta amylase which is active between 55 to 65C. At 65 it will denature pretty fast. This controller can go above and below this.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I meant maltase that renders maltose into dextrose at much lower temperatures around 35C I seem to remember. The mash step is most commonly used in wheat beer brewing (Method developed by Weihenstephan). I want to use it for belgian strong ales though and this seems a good size bewing system for the application.
This is not something ive tried.
Love you videos, I find them very informative, I'm thinking of upgrading from my stove top brewing and was looking at the brewmonk then you come along and review this, all confused again 🤔🤔🤔, would this be suitable for two - three gallon batches? As it's only me that drinks my lovely homebrew, all advice appreciated, keep up the good work 🍻🍻
Many thanks Keith. Yes will work well within this range. Just be aware that at the lower end of this you will need to do a little stirring if you are below the minimum grainbill size to keep effeciency levels.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew cheers was thinking that, I might just do a full batch and split it using different hops and yeast strains and see what happens 👍
That certainly is a very interesting way to go 🍻
Hi David, great overview. Here, where I live, I can get Brewzilla 35l or Grainfather S40 at similar prices (50 eur difference). What would you recommend? P. S. Difference in volume is not the most important aspect as I will mainly brew single batches.
Hi Zoran, my preference would be the Brewzilla 35 or better still the 65 for some extra. The heating elements are modern low watt density where as the S40 has the old style. Furthermore the build quality is higher on the Brewzillas along with having a better controller.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Many thanks for the reply, David. It helps when someone with your experience and knowledge gives advice, it's much appreciated :) I'm really surprised that Grainfather didn't position themselves as the best "budget" option with the S40 if they decided to enter that segment.
No problem. I did mention this to GF myself.
I’m not sure what everyone else thinks but I find the recirculation arm to be oddly not centered in the pot. It’s too short. Also it would have been better if they had a hole in the center of the lid for the recirculation arm so it made less of a mess. Also it’s odd that they put a gasket on the lid and have clamps but have three little vent holes immediately next to the gasket. I’m considering cutting a hole in the center and getting a bulkhead tri clover which can double as a handle. Then I’m hoping the brewzilla recirculation arm can be bent to fit as it looks longer of course after doing the camlock modification.
Hey Warren, it doesn’t need to be dead in the centre and its designed to be used with the wort spreader.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I know but I don’t want to cut a hole off Center. That also makes it not level if I want to use it. But I’ve found that it splashes out of the pot using the wort spreader. I have to turn the valve down quite a bit and I don’t have that much liquid on top. Less than they recommend in the instructions.
I do turn it down myself to avoid splashing but it works well enough to not need modification.
Hi David, great review as always and thanks for sharing. Quick question as I'm looking at investing in a new system and currently use a G30, are there any downsides to the S40? As this seems to good to be true and why would somebody go for a G40 over an S40?
Cheers
Thanks Richard. Advantages are pretty big when comparing G40 to S40. Here are some key areas:- much better build quality, better controller (big area this) , more powerful and advanced heating, better cooling system. You get what you pay for. The S40 is very trimmed down to hit its budget price.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew oh so are you saying it's a bit naff and my G30 is a better product..... guessing it must be at £200 more
Hmm its not naff, its simply a budget option and the cheapest of Grainfathers brewing systems. Certainly the G30 has its advantages though the S40 beats the G30 in terms of volume flexibility being the larger system plus it has that overflow pipeless design. So really it depends on budget alongside wants and needs. One thing is for sure, the GF range certainly has more options :)
Just subscribed to your channel and have spent the last 4 hours watching your videos as im looking to buy my first ag boiler as i usually make beer from kits but have done a couple of ag brews but find it hard to to keep constant temperatures so i think a boiler will be the way forward for me and will also be easier than using a stock pot on my cooker, the s40 is within my budget and i have saw 1 for sale at a realy good price, what are the cons of the s40? I did read about the pump clogging up as 1 con, the price is £60 cheaper than any other s40's i have saw for sale, should i go for it as my first boiler? If you say yes then i will buy it 🙂
I will make about 6 brews per year about 5 gallon per brew using recipes from dave lines book brewing beers like those you buy and after a while might atempt trying my own recipes
Hi, Glad you have found my content useful. The S40 is very basic compared to more expensive systems. The controller being the main basic area. So you will need to change temperature as you go. No big deal really.
I would suggest you look at Brewzilla Gen 3 and 4 also. Not a huge amount more but much more for your money.
No pump filter ?
Nope. Not needed. No problems so far at my end.
Hi David, thanks for this nice video. I like the simplicity of the S40 and the higher volume with a higher ABV possibility :-) Do you think the display and buttons on top are wireless? Then it will be possible to create a sort of separate remote controll. The only thing that would be nice is a level glass in stead of a solid pipe. After all it looks like a very nice unit with lots of options.
Hi Chris, I am glad that you found this video useful. Yes, plenty of possibilities here but sadly no wireless.
The mash arm looks like it could be modifyed with a camlock and used for the G30 :D
Sure. Though I think you would lose the 360 movement doing that conversion.
You've had a better experience than me then with S40, have you tried a maximum capacity brew,?
I mean what's the point unless you brew 2 batches in one ,did you not find the lack of filter on the tap a problem?
If you brewed full capacity ,the time taken to heat 40 liters 🤷 did you not think the feet on the grain basket are weak ,did you not think about a honest review
This is not a review. It is clearly stated as an overview and first impressions. A review can only come after much more testing of batch sizes of all types. Up to the point of this video I have brewed minimum and one keg batches. Yes, it would seem based on your comments that you had a different experience to me and are judging me based on this being a review, which it clearly isn’t. I am more than happy to call out bad things when I find them and do in this video I might add.
Are you sure this is duel skin S/S ?
This information came from GF. Looking at the controller position from the inside of the system in has to be true.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew
Sorry for questioning you but nowhere had there been any reference to this even the girl on the help desk didn’t know, still enjoy your videos and miss Tony Yates work kind regards from Little Wanangui New Zealand.
Hi John,
Thank you for your patience.
Our tech team have come back to me with the following information;
The S40 is a double walled tank. However, the gap between the 2 walls is only about 5~8mm thick so the exterior wall will still be very hot when the water is boiling.
I hope this helps!
Please don't hesitate to reach out to us again should you require any further assistance.
Kind regards,
Shannon - Customer Experience Advocate - Grainfather
No worries at all John. Kinda odd that the GF telephone support did not know that but at least you got an answer in the end.
Yeah we all miss Tony. He lives 30 mins away from me though.
S40, as the one would assume, is ready for 40 l of beer.
Guess again. Total volume is 46 liter, if you don't take possible boil off into account.
Mashing limit is about 37 liters. Everything over this will leave grain basket under liguid level.
Worst of all issues I came across is incapability to achive and hold temperature set. That should be the main advantage of electric all in one system. This one, unfortunately, failed every time.
Temperature overshooting was even 12 C (54 F). Increase from 64 C (147 F) to 76 C (169 F) happend in less than 3 minutes. Had to stop it with ice and cold water.
Sensor does not "read" the temp correctly, so target exact temp with S40 is a dream.
Keep the worth boiling at 100 C (212F)- have to set it up to 102 C and keep it like that.
Overall, it gives more headache than it helps.
Definitely looking for another system.
Sounds like you have a defective unit there. I would suggest you talk to where you bought it for a replacement.
How do you compare S40 to Brewzilla?
Brewzilla is much more feature rich, especially GEN 4.
@@DavidHeathHomebrewThank you! How is Brewzilla Gen 4’s build quality?
I would rate it below the premium systems like Brewtools but above the majority of the budget market. Check out my various Brewzilla GEN 4 videos.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks 🙏
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It looks like that they copied the anvil foundry basket design, why not if it works. S40 looks interesting in price and function, If I were not so invested in my next system I would surely consider it.
The basket is nothing new really, just new to homebrewers really.
Hi David. One thing you didn‘t mention is how well the measured temperature correlates to the temperature within the grain bed. At the end of your video you can see the tiny temperature probe knob on the bottom, so it‘s measuring temperature at the bottom of the kettle right next to where the heating element is mounted to the bottom of the bottom. This is the same set-up as in all the chinese manufactured robobrew/brewzilla/klarstein-type all-in-one brewing systems, and it has been my experience (with a „MaltMaster“) that the temperature within the grain bed can be much cooler than the temperature the probe is measuring, especially if the grain bed gets compacted and flow through less. This can be highly misleading and I would guess could greatly effect the final product as far as residual sweetness vs. dryness is concerned, as you might be effectively mashing at a much lower temperature than you think. Also, since the temperature control “believes“ the temperature is higher, the wort above continues to cool down…giving it a good stir re-equalizes the temperature quickly but you can expect a big temperature drop. The only solution I‘ve found is almost continuous stirring during the mash…what‘s your experience and your solution? Perhaps you could brew again with the s40 and monitor the temperature within the grain bed with a thermometer (without stirring too much) and compare it to the temperature measured by the probe at the bottom?
Hi Josh, most brewing systems are made in China these days, even the very expensive ones. When you have liquid of any kind being heated like this, even if it is being recirculated it is not all going to be the same temperature. The difference is even bigger as you go up in scale. So you can imagine how this is with brewery beer batches. As I mentioned in this video, it is about temperature range, not precise temperature. Certainly I found the temp to be acceptable when I checked it, it was within 1 deg C accurate.
The legs of the immersion chiller look a bit short. I'd expect the chiller to go to the bottom
It can be positioned to the bottom
I am rather disappointed that they have not used a camlock for the pump arm. I understand that it is a budget system, but it would have only made a $3 price difference. The markings down to 10L would have not cost a penny extra. A 23L batch uses 18-21 litres of water, and a 15L batch quite a bit less. It is almost like if the S40 was an afterthought.
Looking at the features that the upcoming Brewzilla 4 will have, I feel that Grainfather have undershot what was possible in that price range, and just put this product out there just to get new brewers into the brand. I also feel that they could have done better with the G40, considering the price point, that is not that far from the Brewtools system, but the features are nowhere close. The only advantage I see is the easier cleaning process as it has fewer parts.
I would have preferred camlocks, though I do really like the 360 swing meaning that you dont need to add and remove more than once. The markings certainly I would rather had more, though my work arounds are pretty easy really. However do keep in mind that at its price the S40 is a system of compromise compared to the G40. Its all about choices though :) I hope you found my content useful.
Price point is attractive. And it's a 10 gallon system. For that it's worth it
Sure is :)
and that it will run off a standard 10A/230V power point unlike some other electrical brew systems.
Yes, though I would have to wonder how that impacts performance. There is no such option in Europe.
Still made in China
What isn’t? And what does that matter, really…most commercial systems are made in China. Unfortunately in the current economic climate if you want a lower price, that’s your best option, if you want to pay 3-4 times the price with the hope of better quality (I can only infer that’s what you are implying) then buy European (a choice I made for my car). It comes down to design, quality control and support, and personally I’ve had no support issues with GF since buying one of their first units.
What does it matter? Justify your comment Partridge. This sounds like racism to me.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew just pointing out the most brewing systems are made in China,do you think that grainfathers are engineered any different
@@DavidHeathHomebrew and I would prefer it if you used my first name David, it's Dave
They certainly are, its just the way that you put it.