@@IsaiahVance-nc1ow I won’t really call any of the characters on this list as evil. *evil* and *villain* isn’t the right term for them. They never had any “evil” intentions. They were misguided and were brainwashed (I won’t exactly say brainwashed but idk lmao) into thinking that they were doing the right thing, and thought that it would lead to them doing good. They had pure intentions. Just because their views went against Sonic’s and turned them against him doesn’t make them evil. I’d rather call them antagonists, if anything. Eggman,
Dang, why can't Sonic just be the cool dude who's just gotta do what he's gotta do instead of this Superhero wannabe? His character was so simple, now we got people writing lengthy paragraphs defending this "perfect" idw characterization of Sonic, which makes things even more complicated
Superheroes don't beat up their villains and then give them the freedom to change, on top of that his IDW characterization is quite literally the only way for him always sparing his game villains to be consistent, the only actual difference between the two is that IDW Sonic explained himself and game Sonic never did.
@@Peashamactually I disagree with the "him always sparing his villains" part. Sonic doesn't care what his enemies do with their lives, it's not his problem. Cream in episode 1 of sonic X said it best: sonic doesn't "get in eggman's way", he just tries to stop eggman from doing the bad things he likes to do In sonic heroes, sonic reads the threatening message from eggman at the start of the game and looks at it like an invitation to a party, and at the end of the game, after beating neo metal, he just bounces, telling him to let him know when he wants a rematch. Sonic is more concerned with doing what he wants (which, as it happens, is always the "right" thing to do (assuming it's not purely recreational)) than bringing justice upon his foes. He doesn't think himself better or worse than anyone because he doesn't care, but if he sees someone doing something he doesn't like, he's gonna have something to say about it.
@@Peasham my point is that you said IDW's characterization is "quite literally the only way" for it to make sense, and I responded by telling you that it's not, and it was perfectly in character before
I mean I feel like it's a bit of a strawman given that Sonic has made it clear he hates Tyrants. Only reason he gave Eggman a chance at all was because he DID see what good Eggman could do as Mr. Tinker.
I can understand both sides of the argument. On one hand, I can agree with Sonic wanting to give people a second chance to be a better person and not just go gunho on every potential badguy. On the other hand, I agree with people who are angry that he just let's those who've done atrocious things go, via Eggman and the Metal Virus. I'm not saying he has to want to just straight up KILL Eggman on the spot, but at least make him content with putting him in a cell.
Plus, Eggman only became Mr. Tinker when his *entire memory is wiped out*. He's pretty much a different person than the tyrannical Ivo Robotnik everyone knew if
@@ryannathaniel9296 Certainly, and sonic himself shows frustration that Eggman chose to STILL go even knowing how happy he was as Mr. Tinker. Eggman himself admits how peaceful the life was. Hell, this isn't out of character for Sonic. In Sonic and the Black Knight, remember that after stopping Merlina he STILL shows her kindness and understanding even when she tried to kill him and lock the world into a stasis. Sonics philosophy is about letting people live freely as they wish. And if that freedom should interfere with other people's freedoms, he's gonna stop it plain and simple.
Sonic only let Eggman go because he lost his memories and was a different person. And Surge was kidnapped and brainwashed into who she is now. When it comes to his other enemies, Sonic doesn’t try to reason with them. Unless it’s a Knuckles or Blaze type situation, where they’re not actually evil.
You say that like he wasn't beating Surge's ass while trying to talk to her lmao, the only instance where he doesn't beat someone's ass before trying to redeem them is when it's an innocent person (Tinker).
I saw alot of the discourse on this animation. I agree with what you are saying. On even ground with Merlina, it was a discussion. On a high ground against Surge, it was condescending preachiness.
1. Now that i think about it, Sonic And The Black Knight is the only Sonic Game that's not referenced on the IDW Comics 2. I respect Sonic's decisions but from my point of view, the villains in these comics really have nothing to learn. The one who should learn the lesson there is Sonic. He should learn that in the world there are people who no matter how much does he know or how many times he had talked to them, they will never change, they will not want to listen and they will only continue causing chaos.
1. It's the only Sonic game that could significantly poke holes into many of the writing decisions in the comics. Retconning the story in that game would also never work because many of it's fans would immediately recognized and jump on it (like this comment section)
And he learnt that the hard way in issue 56 where Surge almost killed him by electrocuting him in water as he almost had a cardiac attack. For he could die if the Dynamo Cage on Surge didn't break apart.
It actually is referenced, by the way Blaze describes Sonic’s spirit to him when he was amnesiac: “He was as free as the wind. He had no master, but he fought for anyone and everyone” or something along those lines
*Lady of the Lake:* How did it go? *Sonic:* He stabbed in the chest. *Lady of the Lake:* What did I say would happen? *Sonic:* He would stab in the chest.
You mean the game wherein his entire personal philosophy and thought process was driven by freedom, wherein everything he did was to maximize the freedom of everyone around him including the villain? I totally didn't just describe both IDW and Black Knight Sonic there!
@@SonicXisCanonAbsurd. The End is a deity that threatens the entire universe, normal Sonic kills it, as before! What is the interest of this point!? Frontiers is one of the best interpretations of Sonic! What's wrong with you to pretend it's different from before?! His empathy is at its peak, and yet he is still ready to do bad things when it takes, but at the same time, he knows when it's time to ask questions! You should be ashamed to criticize Frontiers Sonic while the really bad Sonic we've got was from 2010s!
@@maryafantalia8614"you should feel ashamed for criticizing trash when the garbage from before was worse" I'm not saying frontiers is trash btw, I was just saying that to prove a point: just because something else was worse, than doesn't automatically make something good or absolve it of criticism. Sonic was more so out of character with handling sage, and the pacing of frontiers' story is so... weird that it doesn't have the same feeling of 2000s sonic. Frontiers is trying to emulate 2000s sonic but it's clearly a different beast no matter how you spin it. 2010s sonic was terrible? Cool, but that's an irrelevant point when they were talking about the frontiers in relation to 2000s and prior, not colors
They really didn't they only made him do that with surge and mr.tinker that's all he only did this with those that he believes they can do good that's all.. He didn't do the same thing when it came to dr.eggman,Starline,zavok,neo metal sonic etc.. This guy however took it easy out of context because IDW sonic isn't that stupid to do something like this everysingle time
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x idk what you've been looking at but Sonic's been sparing almost every villain so far in IDW, and every time he did it led to even more trouble later in the comics I get that Sonic has his own pov. When it comes to giving people second chances and all, but even Sonic should know when something or someone is too dangerous when kept unchecked Its like Batman but without the dark and brooding mood, he never actually puts a stop to the villains, especially Joker for some reason
@@Armani0326 so we just gonna ignore the fact that he was literally one-shotting giant zavok as super sonic in IDW? Because in that moment he knew that zavok is a serious and dangerous and without a second thought or any doubt and spare he just one-shotted his ass so he does take things seriously if he sees a villain really dangerous and won't spare them I mean yes granted him let go of metal sonic was kind of dumb as hell but we can't just forget these factors too bedsides him making peace with some of his enemies is not to out of character for him considering how exactly he met knuckles, blaze, silver and shadow. look...I really understand the criticism where you are coming from though specially with the whole metal virus thing..and it's all valid I'm not saying you are wrong..but I'm gonna sit here and say he actually spared every single villain of IDW considering he ruthlessly one-shot zavok in his super form yeah that was really a thing in metal virus and etc..and he did took accountability for the screw ups he caused and paid the consequences aswell ofc.
@@derple8524you mean to tell me after years of writers who literally knew nothing about sonic and just made up random stuff and ruined basically every characters personality. You guys don’t like Ian because sonic doesn’t immediately try to kill the person they just met.
@@TaypokemonMaekawa is the bar for a lot of fans. Not just in terms of plot, but specifically how he has a lot of the characters express themselves with a lot of the more open ended, shonen style/anime-isms the series had. Flynn isn't cutting it, in that regard. Whether it's simply cultural differences or even because he doesn't want to write them in that fashion, it's valid to not like his writing for that. He's not awful though, and has some neat ideas. It's very much like One Piece the Anime/Manga vs One Piece Live Action; it gets the general broad strokes but sands down or over explains aspects that don't really need it, depending who you ask.
I'm not going to deny Sonic is too preachy in IDW, but I feel like people take it out of context sometimes. The reason he pulls this on Eggman is because he saw the potential good in him because of Mr. Tinker, which to his credit is not entirely misplaced given how Eggman treats Sage in Frontiers. With Surge, he saw that she was a victim, someone who was abused and put into circumstances that nobody would reasonably want. He didn't pull this with Neo Metal Sonic, or Starline, or Zavok. So far he's only pulled this with people he thinks *can* do good. I get why this upsets people, and I certainly hope they tone it down in later issues. But I think people exaggerate it just a bit.
@@youalreadyknowwhoitis3544 I could be technical and say he helped during the Metal Virus, but in all seriousness, Sonic thought Metal could grow to be good. He knows Metal Sonic is smarter than the average Badnik. There's literally a whole game centered around his AI evolving past Eggman's programming. Sonic just severely underestimated what Neo said about Eggman removing the rebelliousness from his programming. If Metal Sonic was thrown into a situation like Mecha Sonic's, he might have changed. But we can't know for certain. I'm not going to deny it was a horrific gamble, but in Sonic's defense he didn't know Metal was going to be what brought Eggman's memories back.
@@esteban8471 And that game you’re referring to is Sonic Heroes, correct? The one where Metal Sonic becomes a monster and tries to kill everyone and take over the world?
@@youalreadyknowwhoitis3544 Yes. That's why I brought up Mecha Sonic, a fellow Sonic doppelganger robot who also grew past his programming and ended up becoming a good guy. If Metal was put in the same situation as Mecha, maybe things might have been different. Or maybe Metal would have stayed evil. I really can't tell you for certain.
@@esteban8471 You can tell for certain because Metal DID grow past his programming in Heroes and he still wanted to kill Sonic and friends. If he didn’t, Eggman wouldn’t had to reprogram Metal Sonic.
No disrespect to any creators/writers/fans, but if they are going to keep saying that IDW Sonic is the same Sonic from the games, then he needs to be written and characterized like Game Sonic. To those who say Game Sonic is already an inconsistent character, none of the shifts in personality from game to game (especially in Japanese) are as contradictory as IDW Sonic. The same complaint applies to Sonic Prime. Game Sonic does not have principles/chivalry/code he does things on a whim. Game Sonic can be forgiving/not kill and be merciless/kill because he has nuance. Game Sonic would not believe Eggman or Metal would change of their own free will. Game Sonic is ok with being a bad guy and is stated to not think of himself as a hero. Game Sonic can put up and shut up like he did with Infinite/Biolizard/Solaris/Dark Gaia/The End/The Zeti/Black Arms/Erazor/King Arthur. Not once did he worry about their freedom or potential to reform or fight/argue with anyone else over that. IDW Sonic said he has principles. He's written like a comic book superhero, so he's against killing he believes that Eggman will change and expected Metal to change. IDW Sonic feels like a modified Archie Sonic more in line with the Games, but it's still not accurate. IDW Sonic also feels too meta with Surge trying to be friends with her because that's how almost every rival to Sonic ends up. For those who think that these principles are a good flaw or makes good character development, Sonic is not going through any character development because he is a mostly static mascot character and they would never put such development in a tie in comic over a game. It's not like the writers want or can have Sonic suddenly be ruthless or change drastically. As for principles being a flaw, Sonic already has flaws they were shown in the Unleashed opening, the storybook games, and Frontiers.
I love how you say inconsistencies between games don't matter but then completely dismiss his in-game characterization to say he does everything on a whim when multiple games lay out that he actually DOES have principles he consistently follows, at least within the context of the individual games. Regardless, Sonic has NEVER killed a sentient being, this isn't something you can point to as him having done in the games as it'd simply never happened, and in this context not only has IDW not changed his characterization, it made SENSE of it, taking his stated principles from Black Knight and applying them logically to all his actions in the other games. It's really funny how you imply that IDW Sonic just.. doesn't fight his enemies, or something, "Game Sonic can put up and shut up" and all that, when that's literally consistently how IDW Sonic acts, never once not fighting someone who is a danger to others, him only not fighting Tinker and initially not fighting Surge because neither were a danger to others, with Tinker being helpful to his community and being a genuinely good person no less, with him fighting Surge the second she became a danger to others and him intimidating Surge into not stepping out of line when she comes back "reformed" as he in fact doesn't just blindly trust people and knows not to blindly trust people who've shown themselves capable of hurting others maliciously. Further, no, the only Sonic that's written as a comic book superhero is movie Sonic, what with his love of authority and the upholding of laws, whereas IDW and generally game Sonic is the exact opposite, him holding only disrespect for authority and breaking any and every law he sees fit, especially as IDW Sonic's outlook is him valuing freedom above all else, him fighting all of his villains because they jeopardize the freedoms of others, with him absolutely willing to fight governments to do so. Game and IDW Sonic don't care if laws are broken, they care if people get hurt, and you can call that a hero, but it ain't a superhero. Also, uh.. you know IDW Sonic's flaws, him letting villains go, are present within the games completely consistently, right? In every game with a sentient main villain Sonic never once kills them, this isn't a new flaw present within IDW Sonic, this is a flaw from all the games that IDW points out and criticizes. The only thing IDW adds is a consistent logical basis for Sonic's flaws, it doesn't add new flaws, and managing to ground a cartoon character with real principles and ideology actual people have is, I'd say, pretty impressive.
I'm an IDW fan, and I have wholeheartedly agreed on this matter for a while. What kept me around were his friends being the actual heroes. Thankfully, Sonic saw the error of his ways in Issue 55, and Issue 61 proved that it stuck.
Most of them can't accept any form of criticism launched against the comics. All while those same people would shat on other Sonic media without a second thought
No it really isn't he only do this entire negotiation thing and giving a second chance to surge and Mr tinker He didn't do the same thing with zavok,dr.eggman(when he turned evil again),zavok, deadly six,Starline and neo metal sonic hell during the metal virus when he turn super with no second thought no hesitation he one-shot gigantic zavok and beat him to the ground..so no this guy's just took it way out of context just to get some attentions and slandering IDW sonic because the toxic fans like him don't like the way sonic is written.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xfor one, I'm gonna skip ahead in your reply and guess that you might be the toxic one. I don't follow his social media or anything but I don't think he's gone swinging out the gate with an "EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS TOXIC" or accused anyone of anything. I could be wrong, and if I am, I implore you to prove it Anyway, Mr Tinker made sense and was entirely in character, metal sonic and surge def would've been handled differently by game sonic. Game sonic has no sympathy or respect for metal, so letting him go made no sense. The deal with surge... sonic was treating her like the villain of the week after she info dumped him on exactly *all* of her issues with him, and it doesn't help that she's actually *right* about her gripes with sonic Surge's existence is fundamentally impossible if we used 2000s sonic characterization, but let's pretend it's not and I'll adjust the interaction to what I think should've happened: Sonic would express actual sympathy. He'd understand why she's upset with him and not condemn her for it, but he would *also* make it clear that he's not gonna compromise his beliefs for anyone or any reason. If surge asks him why he does what he does, sonic would just tell her that he doesn't really think too hard about it, he just does what he thinks is right Again, Surge fundamentally wouldn't exist with 2000s sonic, but I hope my attempt to bring him a bit more in line with who he should be helped to show the difference
This is a rather strange thing actually in that Ian writes Sonic on a near consistent bases to hate Zavok far more than Eggman. Like he just lets Eggman go but Zavok and his goons get a 1 way trip to a giant open air prison. This is actually part of why the big talk in issue 50 was a complete crap shoot because IDW Sonic already was shown to be willing to put people into prison and so dramatically restrict there freedom twice already (never forget the Skunks in issue 3) Exclusively Eggman and Metal Sonic get to be Evil to the max and be treated lightly by Sonic. Which makes very little sense really and almost feels like that is just Ian's fanboying over Eggman insuring nothing to bad happens to him (because Evan's Sonic was fine in having Eggman explode in a big away at the end of Urban Warfare).
@@rynobehnke8289 Except that’s not what happened at all. Sonic let Eggman go because he wasn’t Eggman anymore. Eggman had ACTUALLY changed, unlike times in the past where he was only pretending. He would have stayed that way if Starline hadn’t brought him back. In issue 23 Sonic tries to reason with him, having seen the good person he was, and Eggman even finds himself reminiscing for a bit. Of course, Eggman refuses still, and then Sonic says he’s gonna lock Eggman up. So no, Sonic is not “soft” on Eggman in the IDW comics. Nor is he especially hard on Zavok, who WAS locked up until Starline busted him out.
@@theAmazingJunkman What made you think I was referring to Sonic meeting Mister Tinker? I was more so thinking on issue 32 were he just let Eggman flee, same with Sonic and Eggman at the start of Zeti Hunt. Both times could Sonic easily have snatched Eggman but didn't. Also Zavoks first capture happened while Sonic was with amnesia in Blaze world so no idea why you bring that up.
@@ryannathaniel9296What about it? Eggman only got away in the end because there was too much going on for anyone to notice him. They didn’t LET him get away. And besides, they wouldn’t have won without him.
@@Breakaway-ic5gj sonic X season 2 episode 42.. You know the episode when Amy was running to sonic in the beach but sonic was being a total douche like a complete jerk and ignored her like a Total prick and complete douche and just selfishly go on with his own choice aka go racing with Sam speed and just completely ditched and left Amy be like completely ignored her in the beach like he doesn't care and doesn't show any reconsiderations or any concern about Amy's feelings or how his actions would hurt her look I know Amy's characterization in sonic X isn't exactly the best but let's not pretend for sonic's was any better...seeing sonic pulled a stunt like that on Amy in that episode really makes like him like a total jerk and a total douche in that episode! How are you going to excuse that huh? How are you going to defend and justify sonic's actions in that episode answer me this? Answer that question atleast. -sonic X season 2 episode 42 And I'm sure he did this kind of stuff in a few other episodes again I'm not saying he was 100% a jerk through the series but I'm some episodes he really was! Which is why idw sonic is better.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xI think you're projecting a bit on Amy's behalf, in that regard. You're free to dislike it, but it is a part of his character Sonic, while being a paragon, is still a character with his own set of flaws that give him his edge. He has an aloof personality, and is just fine being on his own without his friends. Not that he's trying to hurt her feelings, but he's not gonna do something he doesn't want for anyone. All his friends (Amy especially) understand and admire that aspect of him, despite how frustrating it may be at times
@@spaceace6475 you're just proving my point that makes him a jerk and prick a complete douche who doesn't care about his friends like that stunt he pulled towards Amy in the beach which is really pisses me off here..like a complete jerk and if you're saying that his friends respect this aspect of his character despite it's frustrating and you are going to justify his actions in that episode too you just proving my point that sometimes he can really be pain in an ass and a complete douche if that's a part of his personality which it proves my point then you people say IDW sonic has the worst characterization and sonic X is a better sonic that's just BS let me tell ya why sure IDW sonic has some flaws in his character and made some mistakes no denying on that but atleast he's not a total jerk like sonic X and pull a stunt on his friends like he doesn't care about his friends at all like he did with Amy no....this sonic actually care about his friends and kind,caring and compassionate towards others too and a little cocky and arrogant ofc but atleast not as arrogant as sonic X!! And he's not a total douche too like sonic X if anything I think IDW sonic= game sonic his character is balanced very well..in IDW and frontiers he's not cocky and arrogant all the time unlike sonic X... because his character is actually balanced very well Conclusion: sonic X isn't better than IDW sonic.
Yeah, sums up sonic nowadays. He's better then how he was back in the "meta" era (2010's - 2020), but it's still not great. Instead of taking actions and being the fastest and the second coolest thing in the universe, he's just a motivational talker with little action. Yes, sonic says motivational things here and there, but he's more of gotta do things quickly guy. He has little time to talk, and so he keeps on running. Also, they should just fix/lean more to things in nowadays sonic like: Nature vs Technology Freedom The real sonic doesn't make fun of others, except for knuckles. And when does, he's talking in serious tone with serious altitude (except for k n u c k). The real sonic doesn't weightlessly reference his past. The real sonic says jokes that only fit the his current situation. Sonic looks "ok" nowadays. He used to look like the second coolest thing ever. Sonic doesn't sound like he used to. etc.
Ah yes, because surely IDW Sonic just stands around doing nothing but talking and totally doesn't do motivational speeches as he's beating his opponent's ass, this is very much a true thing that happens in the comics.
I get what people are saying with IDW Sonic being "too merciful", but at the same time, it's not too out of character as shown in the games. In Sonic Adventure, Sonic is the one that talks about how Chaos' turmoil won't vanish if he's sealed away inside the Master Emerald, and is the one to go against sealing him. In Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic talks to Merlina before fighting, asking why did she do all of this, and wondering why she's done everything she did despite wanting to save the kingdom. Although, in Sonic IDW, Sonic acts like he needs a moral reason to have his enemies keep living. In these comics, they make it seem like Sonic is always waiting for Eggman to turn back, but the games mostly shows that Eggman runs away any chance he gets, and Sonic loves the thrill of the chase and the battles from Eggman and knows that Eggman isn't one to turn into a good guy. Sonic rants to Metal Sonic in the comics about staying one-note and staying at Eggman's side, being mad that he didn't stay good. This here just makes no sense coming from Sonic considering the other times Metal Sonic was given free-will from Eggman. In Heroes, he still was being overall bad and wanting to do things his way. And in the comics during Battle for Angel Island, it's clear that Metal Sonic still serves the Eggman Empire and works for Eggman (it's literally said in his opening speech to Sonic in #7). So, yeah, that's just stupid. With Surge, the comics make it all about Sonic and his morals (which IDW really tries to keep explaining for some reason) rather than actually having Sonic try to at least wonder what's going on with her ala the Merlina pre-battle cutscene. Sonic also acts super pretenous and acting like this the same old shtick that is like Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, and Blaze. But, he should know that not everyone he fights is going to go onto his side (like the Babylon Rogues. Heck, Shadow only really has mutual respect for him anyways.), and with the super pretenous way he's going at it, it's even less likely that she would willingly work with him in the slightest. Sonic being forgiving works in certain situations, but I've gotta admit that he can be a little too expecting of everyone being good in the comics. I like the way Ian writes the characters sometimes, but they're defintiely not perfect, and have some flaws that don't make sense for the character to make. Just wanted to throw my badly written 5 dollars in the conversation since a bunch of comments are talking about it.
He really isn't he was only doing that with surge and mr.tinker He didn't do that with dr.eggman,Starline, deadly six,zavok,neo metal sonic Even as IDW super sonic without a second thought he one-shot the gigantic zavok and beated him to the ground with no hesitation he was only trying to redeem 2 villains 1. Surge 2. Mr.tinker aka Eggman thought he's good due to losing his memory
I mean he's.. not too merciful, is the funniest thing. He talks about redemption specifically after beat the person he wants to redeem's ass because he quite literally keeps turning bad guys good after beating their asses.
@@Peasham That literally only happened ONCE, and it was with Merlina! Everyone else either wasn't evil to begin with or wasn't rehabilitated by Sonic himself; argument invalidated!
@@videogollumerAh yes, Shadow totally wasn't planning on murdering as many humans as possible as retribution for Maria getting killed, that's completely fine and not evil! Sociopath much?
@@Peasham Learn how to read! I said "Everyone else either wasn't evil to begin with or *WASN'T REHABILITATED BY SONIC HIMSELF!!!* Did SONIC rehabilitate Shadow?! NO! It was AMY who rehabilitated him! Sonic did NOTHING to influence Shadow! Sonic may be more heroic than fans give him credit for, but he's NOT THE GRAND POOBAH OF ALL GOODNESS!!! Sonic only rehabilitated ONE truly evil character, and it was Merlina!
Also if people really don't like this why don't people talk to Ian about it respectfully. This is the most influence fans had on the series in a while and I don't see people really using that for tangible change. I know ian is under alot of pressure from sega suites and is just doing what is knows but the fact that he has an open podcast on youtube and can directly talk to fans is amazing. Better than always complaining about it Either that or this is not really an issue if no one wants to change it. (I don't mean every fan)
@@EntertainingHedgehog but that's not the point I'm trying to make although i do see where you are comming from but the way people asked kishimoto didn't seem like complaining to me, just thoughful suggestions. Not only that but the opnion on the series is scattered between the different factions of eras along with newer fans with their preferences. Like people will complain about EA's greedy monetization but won't stop buying the games. Completely different example but it's the general idea I'm trying to convey. And there is the cause and effect, if IDW sonic does change to his more unleashed/black knight character, what about the people that like how he was before and think it's an interesting change because there are people that like it. I may prefer how he was in unleashed but I don't think idw is bad, and I'm not saying he shouldn't change or that I don't want him to, I just don't think he should be written off as a whole. Like imagine when sonic and shadow first met but replace shadow with surge. This person. Wants to kill him over something he doesn't know, I doubt he would be alot less respectful and reasonable towards someone whose anger is justified. And in the cannon comic sonic had been through the same song and dance with knuckles, shadow, sliver ect... but he is only working with part of surge's story.
Flynn is 100% aware of the criticisms he gets from fans, he’s an incredibly stubborn guy. That’s why the comic still tries to justify Sonic’s characterization even after all this time.
@@shucaybkarie1389 movie sonic "killed" eggman in the second movie, so he's not like IDW sonic (he didn't check on eggman after destroying the robot). He even tried to punch him in the face early in the movie. But yeah I know what you mean. He's out of character.
@@maryafantalia8614 watch as the whole fanbase change their opinion all because a single guy said some retro opinion changing bs for the hundredth time
What's with the fanbase's sudden fixation on making sonic kill ? Sonic spared his enemies multiple times (knuckles shadow blaze Merlina ect) and no one bats an eye Sonic shows mercy against eggman and surge(a victim of mind control and manipulation) and everyone's saying he's soft and out of character And now want ian Flynn gone (After several years of begging for him to be the writer) Y'all are more inconsistent that the actual franchise tbh
*Actual IDW Sonic:* “You have the freedom to do the right thing, to do whatever you please!” *The portrayal of IDW Sonic:* “Wow! You have a sword? I remember that one time I had a sword…”
I feel like this is too much of an exaggeration on some parts. Like, no Sonic, IDW or otherwise, is going to give someone like the Black Knight a second chance. He gave Eggman a second chance because the dude had amnesia and Sonic felt sure the dude wasn't going to go evil, he gave Surge and Kit a chance because these two were experimented on by Starline, he gave Mecha Sonic a chance in Scrapnik Island because the dude has legitimately changed. Even at the newest IDW issues, when he gave Surge and Kit a chance, the blue dude also subtly threatens Surge about what could happen if she decides to fuck shit up even when he's giving her another chance. The dude gives chances when he sees that person is worth giving a chance, and if you're clearly not worth any chance, he's fucking sending you to the afterlife or something. He's a hero, not an idiot
Anyone who thinks Metal Sonic is capable of reforming IS an idiot; that Soulless killing pile of scrap isn't worth the sum of his parts, let alone the lives of the entire population of the planet! Anyone who thinks Eggman has good in him after he unapologetically stooped as low as technological-necromancy is ALSO an idiot! Thankfully, Sonic saw the error of his ways; trashed Metal Sonic with help from Omega; refused to save Eggman from Shadow trapping him in his about to explode Eggperial City, and won't ever put faith in monsters like them ever again!
Fr plus he's not that merciful fans making out to be he only did this whole merciful thing with mr.tinker and surge who believed they can have a second chance to be good this is not out of character. Plus he didn't do the same thing with dr.eggman(when he turned evil again),Starline,y,the deadly six and neo metal sonic... Heck in IDW super sonic one-shot gigantic zavok without a second thought! And beat him to the ground So he's not that merciful fans making out to be
@@concordiaharmony2302 Sonic threw a rock at Eggman in CD, which hit his machine and made a giant explosion And in Black Knight Sonic goes for the kill with King Arthur, but he doesn't kill Merlina because: 1. She ain't all bad 2. They spent the entire game together, they had an actual friendship
@@concordiaharmony2302 I mean Merlina was pretty obviously not evil just consumed by fear of the inevitability of death. And even than did Sonic to break out the big speech until after he beat her into powerlessness. While I will give you him not wanting to skill Surge as what little into she gave for herself to Sonic would imply that there is more to her so is Sonic saying he would never kill the real problem because as we have seen he totally can and will kill if he thinks his opposition is a truly irredeemable monster or if it that or ending the world (poor Emerl).
Why does everyone interpret IDW sonic as Steven universe? He’s only let his villains go twice and both times were fairly reasonable. He literally just met Surge and doesn’t really know what she’s even attacking him for, plus EVERY time he meets someone, they fight and later become friends it’s not that unreasonable to think it would happen again. Second is Metal Sonic which he also had a good point Metal has shown before that he can change from Eggman’s coding if given enough time, and without any weapons could possibly quit trying to be Sonic and be his own thing. But you guys are acting like he’s strolling up to Zavok and asking to be besties.
I feel like people are just exaggerating to prove a point. And you do have a point. It isn't that unreasonable for someone to think like this. Not sonic though. IDW sonic comes off like "freedom's #1 fan" and not... freedom itself in carnat. Hell, sonic sometimes comes off as a jerk because peoples life problems slow him down. As for Merlina, if you were freedom itself, you met someone terrified of mortality. Next you know, she's trying to make the world stay the same, forever. To you, that sounds like hell. And you decide to tell this misguided person you're prospective on live. Just long enough to get your point across. Not some multipage, mutispeech bubble, overly preachy speech. Just a little talk to help her get out of this, to you, ###### up mindset.
@@RealBroccoliHour Not entirely all Surge ever says is that she only exist and had to suffer because Sonic let Eggman and Starline life. The rest of the story he wouldn't get until they find Surge and Kits construction plans in the "Overpowered" storyline and Evan's writing there is never sighted as a problem despite it even ending on Sonic letting Eggman go free.
You know that the first time Metal changed from Eggman's coding, he still tried to replace all organics with robots? Man, what did Sonic see in Metal that no one could not
The idiot literally admitted that he would rather put innocent lives at risk than put Eggman in jail! At the time, Eggman had just waged war that killed thousands if not millions, NONE OF WHICH were magicked back to life like in Generations or Forces, then he turned almost everyone into melting techno-organic zombies! If THAT isn't a place to draw the line, put your foot down, and lock him up instead of the usual letting him get away, I don't know what is!
i like how you kept the hypocrisy with "sonic" saying "for nobody but yourself" when if he was to actually follow that path,he'd be doing it for "sonic". So in all means,"sonic"'s the hypocrite.
Now I slander IDW Sonic myself but being a good guy is in your best interest. Such as in Arthur's situation, if he were to become a good guy there would be less people like real Sonic or Merlina trying to kill him. He could become good for himself
That did not go as planned! 😅 People keep saying Sonic’s gone soft, but you guys do remember Chaos, right? Dude wiped out the echidnas and drowned Station Square, but Sonic still made peace with him. As for Surge, he literally just met her when he said that. He knew nothing about her at the time.
Chaos actually repented. And had the main source of why he became destructive (negative Chaos energy) removed completely from him. King Arthur, and in IDW's case, Eggman never does
@@ryannathaniel9296 Chaos never repented either, it's just that the chaos emeralds happened to be there so forgiving Chaos became feasible, especially since removing the negative energy is almost a guarantee that he'll become good. If the chaos emeralds weren't there Sonic would likely let Tikal trap Chaos, probably after he fights Perfect Chaos and loses and sees there's nothing that can be done.
@@ryannathaniel9296 But Sonic was the one who purified him. He was against Tikal’s plan to seal him away. When you think about it, even in games, how often does Sonic actually go for the kill? Not counting the Biolizard since it was a mindless beast.
@@Breakaway-ic5gjexactly, the forgiving and merciful thing sonic did for chaos was beating the negativity out of him, he’s simultaneously dealing with threat and helping without trying to talk him out it.
So we just gonna forget that Sonic only started to care about Chaos until after he learned his backstory and became convinced that the real way to defeat him is by using the positive energy of the Chaos Emeralds to free his mind from the rage that clouds him to show him he is wrong in his believe that all non chao life is evil? Redeeming Chaos was as simple as removing the negative energy in him and than have a bunch of chao tell him to calm down people that aren't asses like the Echidnas even build cute little gardens for us.
Meanwhile Archie Sonic: *dropping yet another egg themed space station in his base(d) form* DESU EGGA DA! Black Knight: *desperately unleashes flurry of attacks* Sonic: "Too Late! You Pushed My "Limits" Button!" *Starts punching the Death Egg* Black Knight: *Even more attacks* Sonic: "CRUSH YOU! JUST LIKE MY LIMITS!"
Yeah, cause game Sonic would never give a speech to humble his enemies. You know, like the one that he gave at the end of the game to Merlina, the one that tried to kill everyone.
@@Breakaway-ic5gj she was still willing to hurt others and kill sonic. And if Sonic ever gives an “speech” in the comics is after a fight like with metal sonic or the zeti, or at least during one with surge. And it s not like letting go of bad guys is also something that he doesnt do in the games, like letting go of chaos in SA 1, or of metal sonic in Heroes, or of eggman in literally every game.
Tbf, she was more of an anti villian that game compared to all the others. It's a darker reflection of what he said earlier in the game "I'm willing to play the villian for the greater good"
@@spaceace6475 That doesn’t excuse her trying to kill him, or at least it shouldn’t. Is like people give shit to the comics for having sonic give a speech to surge even tho she tried to kill him, but that exact same thing happens here and people love it.
this comment section made for good popcorn entertainment. thank you. but yeah, idw sonic is a bit too boring for my taste, definitely prefer when Sonic has some less than favorable flaws to him like his pre-reboot archie self.
These ARE less than favorable flaws, far more so than Preboot Archie, and they made Sonic suck! He cared more about evil's freedom than about innocent lives!
Funny enough, he actually does that in Black Knight proper. and also Secret Rings the Zeti get pretty destroyed as well. Eggman comes with Main Villain power and is just tough in general so he keeps surviving.
@@fatalwaffle1715 In Sonic CD Sonic throws a rock at Eggman when he's trying to run away and blows him up, in Sonic Adventure 1 Sonic chases down Eggman even when he's running away saying "I'll crack that Eggman wide open!" and blows him up again. That sounds like he's trying to me
Idw sonic makes me glad the comics aren’t canon lol cuz he’s a well written interpretation, but he wouldn’t last against against his main canon counterparts villians in terms of his willingness to fight
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x no they’re not. There are too many contradictions thag exist within the comics that separates them from the main canon. They’re “canon” sonic media in context to being a separate timeline. But they’re not the main timeline
@@blackhammerxp5489 dude it's literally confirmed it's canon...even tangle's name dropped in frontiers and the lore manager of sonic the hedgehog confirmed it too it's canon to The games
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x that has never been stated once. Also just because the game references one IDW comic character doesn’t automatically make every single piece of IDW sonic comic canon. Especially when again a lot of the comics have massive contradictions that separate them from the main games & it’s canonical establish lore. Also, the dev said that as long as there are no contradictions, and it can be regarded as Canon, but even then you keep forgetting, at the very concept of death of the author exist. Just because the devs/authors believe something is Canon, does not inherently mean it is Canon, especially if it can be proven wrong. The IDW sonic comics, although base it’s lore around the games, not every single piece of its media is canon. To sit here and say that any & or all contradiction successful in the comics are irrelevant because of a particular author statement, it’s being extremely disingenuous. Because again, an author statement can be proven wrong. Thus why death of the author exist in the first place.
@@blackhammerxp5489 dude..even the IDW CHARACTERS ARE IN TYE MOBILE GAMES TOO!! If they weren't canon Plus idw literally mentioned the events of sonic lost world,colors, generations,sonic adventure 2,sonic unleashed it's all connected to the games why are you gaslighting yourself..
To be fair, I would rather take sonic being overly compassionate, then brutally stabbing the black Knight through the stomach and then celebrating brutal murder (which is what happened in the base game) Also, are we just going to pretend like he didn’t do the exact same thing to perfect chaos back in sonic adventure? He could’ve just stuck him back in the master emerald, but chose to give him a chance at redemption. Edit: I just want to emphasize there’s something wrong with disliking IDW and it’s take on sonic. All I’m saying is it’s not like they completely changed everything about the character.
Stucking Chaos back into the Master Emerald would not solve the problem with, especially regarding his wrath. *Something that Sonic himself said in that game* So it's not just pure "Sonic wants to redeem the villain because reasons"
Putting Chaos into the Emerald wouldn't stop the problem it would only delay it Sonic wanted to end it ones and for all and the best way he saw for that was to clear Chaos Ancient rage so he can see his original reason for getting mad has long since stop being valid. Prior to him learning Chaos backstory in Lost World did he during every encounter with Chaos aim to fully get rid of the monster.
Sonic does have a tendency of befriending people who have tried to kill him, Shadow, Silver, and knuckles being an example of this. I don’t think he’d try to befriend this guy though.
this is why I prefer his "I gotta do, what I gotta do" attitude to this, one is doing what he truly thinks is right even if he has to be the villain than preaching EDIT: and I don't care who says it, IDW Comics are not Cannon and never will be Cannon, because then that'll open a bunch of other worms that we'll all regret
unless their introduce in the games appropriately in a physical form with some kind of plot purpose, no, SEGA known for changing things when they feel like it, they did it to the DiC shows, they did it to Archie/Satam, they did it with X, and they'll eventually do it to IDW and the Movies too, just give it time, enjoy the Adaptation and go on with your day
Black Knight: “Ok, I choose to be evil.”
"I choose stabby stab"
🤣 This reminds me of the last scene with Lord Shen in KFP2
@@ryannathaniel9296
“THEN I CHOOSE THIS!”
Sonic: "aw man" *goes super sonic and destroys him*
@@jetengine9996
I'm afraid a serious lack of chaos emeralds is about to hit you in this game lol
Mephiles: **so proud of the Black Knight**
Mephiles: welcome to the club of ‘Sonic Villains who have stabbed the main protagonist at least once’
Sonic’s a friendly dude but he’s always willing to throw hands
Naruto therapy goes wrong
Bro thinks he’s Steven Universe lol
If only sonic had a shield in that moment😂
@@LintLicker625 And buckets of suppressed trauma
Now You Tell me??
All he's missing now is a cringey singing voice.
@@ModernAegis I thought i was the only one that found cartoon songs cringey
Archie and Fleetway Sonic: What an idiot.
Game Sonic: Glad I didn’t do that (eats chili dog)
IDW Sonic: ☠️
Prime Sonic: "The king is so evil, why did he do that the 9th time?? He must try again"
Me: "goodness are you?? Retarded??"
IDW is canon tho
@@Bleeperblopper497 sadly
@@ataladin87
Cope
“YOU GIVE me a choice?!?”
"Made Peace with enough enemies" eggman and Memphis has entered the chat
knuckles, shadow, silver, blaze, merlina, chaos, gemerl, mecha sonic.....
@@IsaiahVance-nc1ow None of those are evil though, but fair point
@@Breakaway-ic5gj they WERE evil. thats the point
or at least misguided
@@IsaiahVance-nc1ow I won’t really call any of the characters on this list as evil. *evil* and *villain* isn’t the right term for them. They never had any “evil” intentions. They were misguided and were brainwashed (I won’t exactly say brainwashed but idk lmao) into thinking that they were doing the right thing, and thought that it would lead to them doing good. They had pure intentions. Just because their views went against Sonic’s and turned them against him doesn’t make them evil. I’d rather call them antagonists, if anything. Eggman,
It seems that Sonic no longer remembers that he is King Arthur
Zero hesitation on King Arthurs/Black Knights part
makes sense.
Dang, why can't Sonic just be the cool dude who's just gotta do what he's gotta do instead of this Superhero wannabe?
His character was so simple, now we got people writing lengthy paragraphs defending this "perfect" idw characterization of Sonic, which makes things even more complicated
Yeah IDW Sonic sucks
But from what I had heard he got better
Superheroes don't beat up their villains and then give them the freedom to change, on top of that his IDW characterization is quite literally the only way for him always sparing his game villains to be consistent, the only actual difference between the two is that IDW Sonic explained himself and game Sonic never did.
@@Peashamactually I disagree with the "him always sparing his villains" part. Sonic doesn't care what his enemies do with their lives, it's not his problem. Cream in episode 1 of sonic X said it best: sonic doesn't "get in eggman's way", he just tries to stop eggman from doing the bad things he likes to do
In sonic heroes, sonic reads the threatening message from eggman at the start of the game and looks at it like an invitation to a party, and at the end of the game, after beating neo metal, he just bounces, telling him to let him know when he wants a rematch. Sonic is more concerned with doing what he wants (which, as it happens, is always the "right" thing to do (assuming it's not purely recreational)) than bringing justice upon his foes. He doesn't think himself better or worse than anyone because he doesn't care, but if he sees someone doing something he doesn't like, he's gonna have something to say about it.
@@igirjei3717 I'm not sure what your point is here in relation to what I wrote
@@Peasham my point is that you said IDW's characterization is "quite literally the only way" for it to make sense, and I responded by telling you that it's not, and it was perfectly in character before
I mean I feel like it's a bit of a strawman given that Sonic has made it clear he hates Tyrants.
Only reason he gave Eggman a chance at all was because he DID see what good Eggman could do as Mr. Tinker.
I can understand both sides of the argument. On one hand, I can agree with Sonic wanting to give people a second chance to be a better person and not just go gunho on every potential badguy. On the other hand, I agree with people who are angry that he just let's those who've done atrocious things go, via Eggman and the Metal Virus. I'm not saying he has to want to just straight up KILL Eggman on the spot, but at least make him content with putting him in a cell.
What else could be more tyrannical than forcing animals to work for you (flickies) or literally taking away other people's free will? (Metal Virus)
Plus, Eggman only became Mr. Tinker when his *entire memory is wiped out*. He's pretty much a different person than the tyrannical Ivo Robotnik everyone knew if
F0rcing animals to work him and taking other people's free w1ll is not tyrannical enough for you?
@@ryannathaniel9296 Certainly, and sonic himself shows frustration that Eggman chose to STILL go even knowing how happy he was as Mr. Tinker. Eggman himself admits how peaceful the life was.
Hell, this isn't out of character for Sonic. In Sonic and the Black Knight, remember that after stopping Merlina he STILL shows her kindness and understanding even when she tried to kill him and lock the world into a stasis.
Sonics philosophy is about letting people live freely as they wish. And if that freedom should interfere with other people's freedoms, he's gonna stop it plain and simple.
Sonic only let Eggman go because he lost his memories and was a different person. And Surge was kidnapped and brainwashed into who she is now. When it comes to his other enemies, Sonic doesn’t try to reason with them. Unless it’s a Knuckles or Blaze type situation, where they’re not actually evil.
I will admit though, they made idw Sonic a bit too preachy. Sonic’s actions should speak louder than his words.
Metal Sonic:
You say that like he wasn't beating Surge's ass while trying to talk to her lmao, the only instance where he doesn't beat someone's ass before trying to redeem them is when it's an innocent person (Tinker).
@@Skibster-w9l IDW Sonic will never shut up and it's annoying.
He literaly let metal sonic go...
I saw alot of the discourse on this animation.
I agree with what you are saying.
On even ground with Merlina, it was a discussion.
On a high ground against Surge, it was condescending preachiness.
Yeah, that's the point, and it comes back to bite him in the ass.
1. Now that i think about it, Sonic And The Black Knight is the only Sonic Game that's not referenced on the IDW Comics
2. I respect Sonic's decisions but from my point of view, the villains in these comics really have nothing to learn. The one who should learn the lesson there is Sonic. He should learn that in the world there are people who no matter how much does he know or how many times he had talked to them, they will never change, they will not want to listen and they will only continue causing chaos.
1. It's the only Sonic game that could significantly poke holes into many of the writing decisions in the comics. Retconning the story in that game would also never work because many of it's fans would immediately recognized and jump on it (like this comment section)
And he learnt that the hard way in issue 56 where Surge almost killed him by electrocuting him in water as he almost had a cardiac attack. For he could die if the Dynamo Cage on Surge didn't break apart.
It actually is referenced, by the way Blaze describes Sonic’s spirit to him when he was amnesiac:
“He was as free as the wind. He had no master, but he fought for anyone and everyone” or something along those lines
*Lady of the Lake:* How did it go?
*Sonic:* He stabbed in the chest.
*Lady of the Lake:* What did I say would happen?
*Sonic:* He would stab in the chest.
I don't care if it isn't funny to Twitter, it is well-done and enjoyable animation
This scenario would be more fitting for Sonic Prime, Sonic
I think this video shows why I like Sonic's characterization in Black Knight.
It leagues better than meta era and IDW sonic
Because he was pragmatic as well as optimistic?
You mean the game wherein his entire personal philosophy and thought process was driven by freedom, wherein everything he did was to maximize the freedom of everyone around him including the villain? I totally didn't just describe both IDW and Black Knight Sonic there!
@@Peasham Except the villain wasn't Eggman in Black Knight!
@@videogollumer I'm glad we agree that Black Knight Sonic and IDW Sonic's philosophies are entirely logically consistent!
You have incurred the wrath of so many in the internet over this video, and I am all for it. Nerd fights are the best to witness.
Yay
It's even more accurate to black knight since it's showing the cutscenes instead of the gameplay
This is such an underrated game. The songs With Me and Live Life *SLAP*
With Me needs to be brought into the symphony setlist. Especially with Adrienne Cowan on board.
Sonic, not everyone is redeemable dude.
Agree
IDW Sonic*
I know this sounds obvious but he did kill the end. He was a force of nature so but was obviously intelligent.
@@SonicXisCanonAbsurd. The End is a deity that threatens the entire universe, normal Sonic kills it, as before! What is the interest of this point!? Frontiers is one of the best interpretations of Sonic! What's wrong with you to pretend it's different from before?! His empathy is at its peak, and yet he is still ready to do bad things when it takes, but at the same time, he knows when it's time to ask questions!
You should be ashamed to criticize Frontiers Sonic while the really bad Sonic we've got was from 2010s!
@@maryafantalia8614"you should feel ashamed for criticizing trash when the garbage from before was worse"
I'm not saying frontiers is trash btw, I was just saying that to prove a point: just because something else was worse, than doesn't automatically make something good or absolve it of criticism. Sonic was more so out of character with handling sage, and the pacing of frontiers' story is so... weird that it doesn't have the same feeling of 2000s sonic. Frontiers is trying to emulate 2000s sonic but it's clearly a different beast no matter how you spin it.
2010s sonic was terrible? Cool, but that's an irrelevant point when they were talking about the frontiers in relation to 2000s and prior, not colors
I get that IDW is trying to make sonic an understanding kinda hero that shows mercy and all, but they're doing it TOO MUCH
They really didn't they only made him do that with surge and mr.tinker that's all he only did this with those that he believes they can do good that's all..
He didn't do the same thing when it came to dr.eggman,Starline,zavok,neo metal sonic etc..
This guy however took it easy out of context because IDW sonic isn't that stupid to do something like this everysingle time
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x -🤓
I hate that type of hero
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x idk what you've been looking at but Sonic's been sparing almost every villain so far in IDW, and every time he did it led to even more trouble later in the comics
I get that Sonic has his own pov. When it comes to giving people second chances and all, but even Sonic should know when something or someone is too dangerous when kept unchecked
Its like Batman but without the dark and brooding mood, he never actually puts a stop to the villains, especially Joker for some reason
@@Armani0326 so we just gonna ignore the fact that he was literally one-shotting giant zavok as super sonic in IDW? Because in that moment he knew that zavok is a serious and dangerous and without a second thought or any doubt and spare he just one-shotted his ass so he does take things seriously if he sees a villain really dangerous and won't spare them
I mean yes granted him let go of metal sonic was kind of dumb as hell but we can't just forget these factors too bedsides him making peace with some of his enemies is not to out of character for him considering how exactly he met knuckles, blaze, silver and shadow.
look...I really understand the criticism where you are coming from though specially with the whole metal virus thing..and it's all valid I'm not saying you are wrong..but I'm gonna sit here and say he actually spared every single villain of IDW considering he ruthlessly one-shot zavok in his super form yeah that was really a thing in metal virus and etc..and he did took accountability for the screw ups he caused and paid the consequences aswell ofc.
Written and Directed by Ian Flynn
Oh, now I see why people don't like him
@@derple8524you mean to tell me after years of writers who literally knew nothing about sonic and just made up random stuff and ruined basically every characters personality. You guys don’t like Ian because sonic doesn’t immediately try to kill the person they just met.
@@Taypokemon welcome to the sonic fanbase
@@TaypokemonTrue, people complain about a slightly too merciful Sonic instead after having a jerkass Sonic during 10 years!
@@TaypokemonMaekawa is the bar for a lot of fans. Not just in terms of plot, but specifically how he has a lot of the characters express themselves with a lot of the more open ended, shonen style/anime-isms the series had. Flynn isn't cutting it, in that regard.
Whether it's simply cultural differences or even because he doesn't want to write them in that fashion, it's valid to not like his writing for that. He's not awful though, and has some neat ideas.
It's very much like One Piece the Anime/Manga vs One Piece Live Action; it gets the general broad strokes but sands down or over explains aspects that don't really need it, depending who you ask.
I'm not going to deny Sonic is too preachy in IDW, but I feel like people take it out of context sometimes. The reason he pulls this on Eggman is because he saw the potential good in him because of Mr. Tinker, which to his credit is not entirely misplaced given how Eggman treats Sage in Frontiers. With Surge, he saw that she was a victim, someone who was abused and put into circumstances that nobody would reasonably want. He didn't pull this with Neo Metal Sonic, or Starline, or Zavok. So far he's only pulled this with people he thinks *can* do good.
I get why this upsets people, and I certainly hope they tone it down in later issues. But I think people exaggerate it just a bit.
Out of curiosity, what good did Metal Sonic do when he let him escape
@@youalreadyknowwhoitis3544 I could be technical and say he helped during the Metal Virus, but in all seriousness, Sonic thought Metal could grow to be good. He knows Metal Sonic is smarter than the average Badnik. There's literally a whole game centered around his AI evolving past Eggman's programming. Sonic just severely underestimated what Neo said about Eggman removing the rebelliousness from his programming. If Metal Sonic was thrown into a situation like Mecha Sonic's, he might have changed. But we can't know for certain.
I'm not going to deny it was a horrific gamble, but in Sonic's defense he didn't know Metal was going to be what brought Eggman's memories back.
@@esteban8471 And that game you’re referring to is Sonic Heroes, correct? The one where Metal Sonic becomes a monster and tries to kill everyone and take over the world?
@@youalreadyknowwhoitis3544 Yes. That's why I brought up Mecha Sonic, a fellow Sonic doppelganger robot who also grew past his programming and ended up becoming a good guy. If Metal was put in the same situation as Mecha, maybe things might have been different. Or maybe Metal would have stayed evil. I really can't tell you for certain.
@@esteban8471 You can tell for certain because Metal DID grow past his programming in Heroes and he still wanted to kill Sonic and friends. If he didn’t, Eggman wouldn’t had to reprogram Metal Sonic.
Steven Universe: You're doing it wrong, man!
No disrespect to any creators/writers/fans, but if they are going to keep saying that IDW Sonic is the same Sonic from the games, then he needs to be written and characterized like Game Sonic.
To those who say Game Sonic is already an inconsistent character, none of the shifts in personality from game to game (especially in Japanese) are as contradictory as IDW Sonic. The same complaint applies to Sonic Prime. Game Sonic does not have principles/chivalry/code he does things on a whim. Game Sonic can be forgiving/not kill and be merciless/kill because he has nuance. Game Sonic would not believe Eggman or Metal would change of their own free will. Game Sonic is ok with being a bad guy and is stated to not think of himself as a hero. Game Sonic can put up and shut up like he did with Infinite/Biolizard/Solaris/Dark Gaia/The End/The Zeti/Black Arms/Erazor/King Arthur. Not once did he worry about their freedom or potential to reform or fight/argue with anyone else over that.
IDW Sonic said he has principles. He's written like a comic book superhero, so he's against killing he believes that Eggman will change and expected Metal to change. IDW Sonic feels like a modified Archie Sonic more in line with the Games, but it's still not accurate.
IDW Sonic also feels too meta with Surge trying to be friends with her because that's how almost every rival to Sonic ends up.
For those who think that these principles are a good flaw or makes good character development, Sonic is not going through any character development because he is a mostly static mascot character and they would never put such development in a tie in comic over a game. It's not like the writers want or can have Sonic suddenly be ruthless or change drastically. As for principles being a flaw, Sonic already has flaws they were shown in the Unleashed opening, the storybook games, and Frontiers.
Nailed it right on the head.
Right?
I agree, and some actually believe this is consistent. 😭
I love how you say inconsistencies between games don't matter but then completely dismiss his in-game characterization to say he does everything on a whim when multiple games lay out that he actually DOES have principles he consistently follows, at least within the context of the individual games. Regardless, Sonic has NEVER killed a sentient being, this isn't something you can point to as him having done in the games as it'd simply never happened, and in this context not only has IDW not changed his characterization, it made SENSE of it, taking his stated principles from Black Knight and applying them logically to all his actions in the other games.
It's really funny how you imply that IDW Sonic just.. doesn't fight his enemies, or something, "Game Sonic can put up and shut up" and all that, when that's literally consistently how IDW Sonic acts, never once not fighting someone who is a danger to others, him only not fighting Tinker and initially not fighting Surge because neither were a danger to others, with Tinker being helpful to his community and being a genuinely good person no less, with him fighting Surge the second she became a danger to others and him intimidating Surge into not stepping out of line when she comes back "reformed" as he in fact doesn't just blindly trust people and knows not to blindly trust people who've shown themselves capable of hurting others maliciously.
Further, no, the only Sonic that's written as a comic book superhero is movie Sonic, what with his love of authority and the upholding of laws, whereas IDW and generally game Sonic is the exact opposite, him holding only disrespect for authority and breaking any and every law he sees fit, especially as IDW Sonic's outlook is him valuing freedom above all else, him fighting all of his villains because they jeopardize the freedoms of others, with him absolutely willing to fight governments to do so. Game and IDW Sonic don't care if laws are broken, they care if people get hurt, and you can call that a hero, but it ain't a superhero.
Also, uh.. you know IDW Sonic's flaws, him letting villains go, are present within the games completely consistently, right? In every game with a sentient main villain Sonic never once kills them, this isn't a new flaw present within IDW Sonic, this is a flaw from all the games that IDW points out and criticizes. The only thing IDW adds is a consistent logical basis for Sonic's flaws, it doesn't add new flaws, and managing to ground a cartoon character with real principles and ideology actual people have is, I'd say, pretty impressive.
@@Peasham I don't know, I mean.. I can tell the differences between the two. They're not very similar. 😭😕
Sonic, stop watching Steven Universe!
And thats the problem with idw's sonic
Talk no Jutsu only works in Naruto or some anime 😅
Yes
And that's why IDW Sonic is divisive, at best.
Now we just need Black Knight Sonic and Surge.
Who would she be, Sir Kay?
@@videogollumer Well, there's no shortage of Knights of the Round Table. Pretty sure one of them could be fitted for Surge.
Yes that would be so perfect!
Great idea
Fleetway and Archie Sonic: And what did we learn?!
IDW Sonic has become the Steven Universe of the franchise.
Someone had to say it. Based.
I'm already seeing an avalanche of IDW fans crying in the comments 💀
I'm an IDW fan, and I have wholeheartedly agreed on this matter for a while. What kept me around were his friends being the actual heroes. Thankfully, Sonic saw the error of his ways in Issue 55, and Issue 61 proved that it stuck.
Most of them can't accept any form of criticism launched against the comics.
All while those same people would shat on other Sonic media without a second thought
I saw it myself and they are already throwing fits like little babies.
@@ryannathaniel9296Oh I'd adore actual criticism of the comics, yet "Sonic is literally Steven Universe" is by no means it.
At first I didn't get it, but then I remembered all the points you made in your last video. It's _wild_ how accurate this is.
No it really isn't he only do this entire negotiation thing and giving a second chance to surge and Mr tinker
He didn't do the same thing with zavok,dr.eggman(when he turned evil again),zavok, deadly six,Starline and neo metal sonic hell during the metal virus when he turn super with no second thought no hesitation he one-shot gigantic zavok and beat him to the ground..so no this guy's just took it way out of context just to get some attentions and slandering IDW sonic because the toxic fans like him don't like the way sonic is written.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xfor one, I'm gonna skip ahead in your reply and guess that you might be the toxic one. I don't follow his social media or anything but I don't think he's gone swinging out the gate with an "EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS TOXIC" or accused anyone of anything. I could be wrong, and if I am, I implore you to prove it
Anyway, Mr Tinker made sense and was entirely in character, metal sonic and surge def would've been handled differently by game sonic. Game sonic has no sympathy or respect for metal, so letting him go made no sense. The deal with surge... sonic was treating her like the villain of the week after she info dumped him on exactly *all* of her issues with him, and it doesn't help that she's actually *right* about her gripes with sonic
Surge's existence is fundamentally impossible if we used 2000s sonic characterization, but let's pretend it's not and I'll adjust the interaction to what I think should've happened:
Sonic would express actual sympathy. He'd understand why she's upset with him and not condemn her for it, but he would *also* make it clear that he's not gonna compromise his beliefs for anyone or any reason. If surge asks him why he does what he does, sonic would just tell her that he doesn't really think too hard about it, he just does what he thinks is right
Again, Surge fundamentally wouldn't exist with 2000s sonic, but I hope my attempt to bring him a bit more in line with who he should be helped to show the difference
See the conclusion of the Zeti Hunt arc to see what IDW Sonic would ACTUALLY do in this situation
This is a rather strange thing actually in that Ian writes Sonic on a near consistent bases to hate Zavok far more than Eggman.
Like he just lets Eggman go but Zavok and his goons get a 1 way trip to a giant open air prison.
This is actually part of why the big talk in issue 50 was a complete crap shoot because IDW Sonic already was shown to be willing to put people into prison and so dramatically restrict there freedom twice already (never forget the Skunks in issue 3)
Exclusively Eggman and Metal Sonic get to be Evil to the max and be treated lightly by Sonic. Which makes very little sense really and almost feels like that is just Ian's fanboying over Eggman insuring nothing to bad happens to him (because Evan's Sonic was fine in having Eggman explode in a big away at the end of Urban Warfare).
@@rynobehnke8289 Except that’s not what happened at all.
Sonic let Eggman go because he wasn’t Eggman anymore. Eggman had ACTUALLY changed, unlike times in the past where he was only pretending.
He would have stayed that way if Starline hadn’t brought him back. In issue 23 Sonic tries to reason with him, having seen the good person he was, and Eggman even finds himself reminiscing for a bit. Of course, Eggman refuses still, and then Sonic says he’s gonna lock Eggman up.
So no, Sonic is not “soft” on Eggman in the IDW comics. Nor is he especially hard on Zavok, who WAS locked up until Starline busted him out.
@@theAmazingJunkman Metal Virus go brrrrrrr
@@theAmazingJunkman
What made you think I was referring to Sonic meeting Mister Tinker?
I was more so thinking on issue 32 were he just let Eggman flee, same with Sonic and Eggman at the start of Zeti Hunt.
Both times could Sonic easily have snatched Eggman but didn't.
Also Zavoks first capture happened while Sonic was with amnesia in Blaze world so no idea why you bring that up.
@@ryannathaniel9296What about it? Eggman only got away in the end because there was too much going on for anyone to notice him. They didn’t LET him get away. And besides, they wouldn’t have won without him.
Yeah this is my problem with IDW Sonic sometimes lol, but I do get it, it’s for story purposes
They need villains to make conflict
Yeah, but it made SONIC look like the villain, while his friends were the real heroes.
@@videogollumer that's how I felt
Inaccurate; Sonic isn't wearing an insufferable smug expression and the colors aren't washed out
Making fun of IDW Sonic can be rlly funny actually LMAO, this is why og Sonic is the goat, IDW Sonic is just frustrating
Sonic X was no better infact he was more of a jerk.. sometimes in some episodes remember that.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x I remember him getting flowers for Cream, from the specific patch of grass she had on the poster she liked. How's that a jerk?
@@Breakaway-ic5gj
sonic X season 2 episode 42..
You know the episode when Amy was running to sonic in the beach but sonic was being a total douche like a complete jerk and ignored her like a Total prick and complete douche and just selfishly go on with his own choice aka go racing with Sam speed and just completely ditched and left Amy be like completely ignored her in the beach like he doesn't care and doesn't show any reconsiderations or any concern about Amy's feelings or how his actions would hurt her look I know Amy's characterization in sonic X isn't exactly the best but let's not pretend for sonic's was any better...seeing sonic pulled a stunt like that on Amy in that episode really makes like him like a total jerk and a total douche in that episode! How are you going to excuse that huh? How are you going to defend and justify sonic's actions in that episode answer me this?
Answer that question atleast.
-sonic X season 2 episode 42
And I'm sure he did this kind of stuff in a few other episodes again
I'm not saying he was 100% a jerk through the series but I'm some episodes he really was!
Which is why idw sonic is better.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xI think you're projecting a bit on Amy's behalf, in that regard. You're free to dislike it, but it is a part of his character
Sonic, while being a paragon, is still a character with his own set of flaws that give him his edge. He has an aloof personality, and is just fine being on his own without his friends. Not that he's trying to hurt her feelings, but he's not gonna do something he doesn't want for anyone.
All his friends (Amy especially) understand and admire that aspect of him, despite how frustrating it may be at times
@@spaceace6475 you're just proving my point that makes him a jerk and prick a complete douche who doesn't care about his friends like that stunt he pulled towards Amy in the beach which is really pisses me off here..like a complete jerk and if you're saying that his friends respect this aspect of his character despite it's frustrating and you are going to justify his actions in that episode too you just proving my point that sometimes he can really be pain in an ass and a complete douche if that's a part of his personality which it proves my point then you people say IDW sonic has the worst characterization and sonic X is a better sonic that's just BS let me tell ya why sure IDW sonic has some flaws in his character and made some mistakes no denying on that but atleast he's not a total jerk like sonic X and pull a stunt on his friends like he doesn't care about his friends at all like he did with Amy no....this sonic actually care about his friends and kind,caring and compassionate towards others too and a little cocky and arrogant ofc but atleast not as arrogant as sonic X!! And he's not a total douche too like sonic X if anything I think IDW sonic= game sonic his character is balanced very well..in IDW and frontiers he's not cocky and arrogant all the time unlike sonic X... because his character is actually balanced very well
Conclusion: sonic X isn't better than IDW sonic.
Yeah, sums up sonic nowadays. He's better then how he was back in the "meta" era (2010's - 2020), but it's still not great. Instead of taking actions and being the fastest and the second coolest thing in the universe, he's just a motivational talker with little action.
Yes, sonic says motivational things here and there, but he's more of gotta do things quickly guy. He has little time to talk, and so he keeps on running.
Also, they should just fix/lean more to things in nowadays sonic like:
Nature vs Technology
Freedom
The real sonic doesn't make fun of others, except for knuckles. And when does, he's talking in serious tone with serious altitude (except for k n u c k).
The real sonic doesn't weightlessly reference his past.
The real sonic says jokes that only fit the his current situation.
Sonic looks "ok" nowadays. He used to look like the second coolest thing ever.
Sonic doesn't sound like he used to.
etc.
Ah yes, because surely IDW Sonic just stands around doing nothing but talking and totally doesn't do motivational speeches as he's beating his opponent's ass, this is very much a true thing that happens in the comics.
The reason why sonic treats knuckles differently is, sonic is freedom incarnate, knuckles is order incarnate. Makes sense why they but heads.
Yeah IDW Sonic is so annoying
That is Prime Sonic 🗣️🗣️🗣️
I get what people are saying with IDW Sonic being "too merciful", but at the same time, it's not too out of character as shown in the games.
In Sonic Adventure, Sonic is the one that talks about how Chaos' turmoil won't vanish if he's sealed away inside the Master Emerald, and is the one to go against sealing him.
In Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic talks to Merlina before fighting, asking why did she do all of this, and wondering why she's done everything she did despite wanting to save the kingdom.
Although, in Sonic IDW, Sonic acts like he needs a moral reason to have his enemies keep living. In these comics, they make it seem like Sonic is always waiting for Eggman to turn back, but the games mostly shows that Eggman runs away any chance he gets, and Sonic loves the thrill of the chase and the battles from Eggman and knows that Eggman isn't one to turn into a good guy.
Sonic rants to Metal Sonic in the comics about staying one-note and staying at Eggman's side, being mad that he didn't stay good. This here just makes no sense coming from Sonic considering the other times Metal Sonic was given free-will from Eggman. In Heroes, he still was being overall bad and wanting to do things his way. And in the comics during Battle for Angel Island, it's clear that Metal Sonic still serves the Eggman Empire and works for Eggman (it's literally said in his opening speech to Sonic in #7). So, yeah, that's just stupid.
With Surge, the comics make it all about Sonic and his morals (which IDW really tries to keep explaining for some reason) rather than actually having Sonic try to at least wonder what's going on with her ala the Merlina pre-battle cutscene. Sonic also acts super pretenous and acting like this the same old shtick that is like Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, and Blaze. But, he should know that not everyone he fights is going to go onto his side (like the Babylon Rogues. Heck, Shadow only really has mutual respect for him anyways.), and with the super pretenous way he's going at it, it's even less likely that she would willingly work with him in the slightest.
Sonic being forgiving works in certain situations, but I've gotta admit that he can be a little too expecting of everyone being good in the comics. I like the way Ian writes the characters sometimes, but they're defintiely not perfect, and have some flaws that don't make sense for the character to make.
Just wanted to throw my badly written 5 dollars in the conversation since a bunch of comments are talking about it.
He really isn't he was only doing that with surge and mr.tinker
He didn't do that with dr.eggman,Starline, deadly six,zavok,neo metal sonic
Even as IDW super sonic without a second thought he one-shot the gigantic zavok and beated him to the ground with no hesitation he was only trying to redeem 2 villains
1. Surge
2. Mr.tinker aka Eggman thought he's good due to losing his memory
I mean he's.. not too merciful, is the funniest thing. He talks about redemption specifically after beat the person he wants to redeem's ass because he quite literally keeps turning bad guys good after beating their asses.
@@Peasham That literally only happened ONCE, and it was with Merlina! Everyone else either wasn't evil to begin with or wasn't rehabilitated by Sonic himself; argument invalidated!
@@videogollumerAh yes, Shadow totally wasn't planning on murdering as many humans as possible as retribution for Maria getting killed, that's completely fine and not evil! Sociopath much?
@@Peasham Learn how to read! I said "Everyone else either wasn't evil to begin with or *WASN'T REHABILITATED BY SONIC HIMSELF!!!* Did SONIC rehabilitate Shadow?! NO! It was AMY who rehabilitated him! Sonic did NOTHING to influence Shadow! Sonic may be more heroic than fans give him credit for, but he's NOT THE GRAND POOBAH OF ALL GOODNESS!!! Sonic only rehabilitated ONE truly evil character, and it was Merlina!
Arthur was not having it, he chose violence✨
Also if people really don't like this why don't people talk to Ian about it respectfully. This is the most influence fans had on the series in a while and I don't see people really using that for tangible change. I know ian is under alot of pressure from sega suites and is just doing what is knows but the fact that he has an open podcast on youtube and can directly talk to fans is amazing.
Better than always complaining about it Either that or this is not really an issue if no one wants to change it.
(I don't mean every fan)
people complaining did made frontiers, though. 😅
@@EntertainingHedgehog but that's not the point I'm trying to make although i do see where you are comming from but the way people asked kishimoto didn't seem like complaining to me, just thoughful suggestions.
Not only that but the opnion on the series is scattered between the different factions of eras along with newer fans with their preferences. Like people will complain about EA's greedy monetization but won't stop buying the games. Completely different example but it's the general idea I'm trying to convey. And there is the cause and effect, if IDW sonic does change to his more unleashed/black knight character, what about the people that like how he was before and think it's an interesting change because there are people that like it.
I may prefer how he was in unleashed but I don't think idw is bad, and I'm not saying he shouldn't change or that I don't want him to, I just don't think he should be written off as a whole. Like imagine when sonic and shadow first met but replace shadow with surge. This person. Wants to kill him over something he doesn't know, I doubt he would be alot less respectful and reasonable towards someone whose anger is justified. And in the cannon comic sonic had been through the same song and dance with knuckles, shadow, sliver ect... but he is only working with part of surge's story.
Flynn is 100% aware of the criticisms he gets from fans, he’s an incredibly stubborn guy. That’s why the comic still tries to justify Sonic’s characterization even after all this time.
@@staticplays1871 👍
@@RealBroccoliHour 👍
Sonic gave King Arthur a chance to turn over a new leaf, but he blew it by murdering him.
Sonic, you did killed the Black Knight, so.... You had it coming...
OG, AOSTH, 2000s, and Frontiers Sonic Chad
IDW, 2010s, Prime, and Movie Sonic Virgin
Yeah IDW Sonic is really lame
@@shucaybkarie1389 movie sonic "killed" eggman in the second movie, so he's not like IDW sonic (he didn't check on eggman after destroying the robot). He even tried to punch him in the face early in the movie. But yeah I know what you mean. He's out of character.
So sonic spares eggman once and now everyone complains about how he's too forgiving ?
Tf is this fanbase ?
it's likely more the preaching in the IDW comics, sparing Eggman is common place
Sonic rarely had the chance where he's in a position to spare Eggman.
Most of the time, Eggman simply had plot armor
@charmingmagican9821 I know right? This fanbase is impossible...
@@maryafantalia8614 watch as the whole fanbase change their opinion all because a single guy said some retro opinion changing bs for the hundredth time
@@charmingmagican9821 I know, mate, I know, that's sad...
I like that Arthur's textures are low resolution 😭
What's with the fanbase's sudden fixation on making sonic kill ?
Sonic spared his enemies multiple times (knuckles shadow blaze Merlina ect) and no one bats an eye
Sonic shows mercy against eggman and surge(a victim of mind control and manipulation) and everyone's saying he's soft and out of character
And now want ian Flynn gone
(After several years of begging for him to be the writer)
Y'all are more inconsistent that the actual franchise tbh
Not wanting him to attempt to redeem villains all the time ≠ wanting sonic to kill all the time
@@teamdarkfan317 he only tried to redeem two villains
He didn't try it with
dr starline
Or Super Neo metal sonic
Or zavok
Or any of the sinister six
@@charmingmagican9821 facts
@@charmingmagican9821he quite literally tried that with Metal Sonic
@@hype5456 He didn't try it with super neo metal sonic, the person said. Y'know, when Metal Sonic was actually a danger to other people?
*Actual IDW Sonic:* “You have the freedom to do the right thing, to do whatever you please!”
*The portrayal of IDW Sonic:* “Wow! You have a sword? I remember that one time I had a sword…”
The black Knight: I understand where you’re coming from but I have a giant sword that hasn’t been used for a little while so 0:27
When someone say that Storybook Sonic and IDW Sonic are the same:
The sword was so powerful that it glitched sonic.
"What are we going to do? Ask him nicely to please stop destroying the universe?"
*proceeds to do exactly that*
I feel like this is too much of an exaggeration on some parts. Like, no Sonic, IDW or otherwise, is going to give someone like the Black Knight a second chance. He gave Eggman a second chance because the dude had amnesia and Sonic felt sure the dude wasn't going to go evil, he gave Surge and Kit a chance because these two were experimented on by Starline, he gave Mecha Sonic a chance in Scrapnik Island because the dude has legitimately changed. Even at the newest IDW issues, when he gave Surge and Kit a chance, the blue dude also subtly threatens Surge about what could happen if she decides to fuck shit up even when he's giving her another chance. The dude gives chances when he sees that person is worth giving a chance, and if you're clearly not worth any chance, he's fucking sending you to the afterlife or something. He's a hero, not an idiot
I mean to be fair it’s a joke video it is a little over exaggerated but yeah I agree with u
Anyone who thinks Metal Sonic is capable of reforming IS an idiot; that Soulless killing pile of scrap isn't worth the sum of his parts, let alone the lives of the entire population of the planet! Anyone who thinks Eggman has good in him after he unapologetically stooped as low as technological-necromancy is ALSO an idiot! Thankfully, Sonic saw the error of his ways; trashed Metal Sonic with help from Omega; refused to save Eggman from Shadow trapping him in his about to explode Eggperial City, and won't ever put faith in monsters like them ever again!
Ya know what? Can we just say IDW Sonic and Game Sonic are completely different interpretations of the character already?
Man now i know why some people don't like IDW sonic they turned him into a pacifist glad sonic learned his lesson for the past events.
Fr plus he's not that merciful fans making out to be he only did this whole merciful thing with mr.tinker and surge who believed they can have a second chance to be good this is not out of character.
Plus he didn't do the same thing with dr.eggman(when he turned evil again),Starline,y,the deadly six and neo metal sonic...
Heck in IDW super sonic one-shot gigantic zavok without a second thought! And beat him to the ground
So he's not that merciful fans making out to be
Dang! He chose evil! XD
You did a miraculous and magnificent job on this animation, PixelRush!
Peak Sonic characterization.
I mean, I do got to admit. Sonic has grown soft in the IDW comics. His classic self would fr take Surge and Kit’s names.
No he wouldn't.
Like, in this very same game you forget he spares Merlina at the end after beating her.
Hes no steven universe and i dont see him trying to change zavok or eggman anymore.
@@concordiaharmony2302 Sonic threw a rock at Eggman in CD, which hit his machine and made a giant explosion
And in Black Knight Sonic goes for the kill with King Arthur, but he doesn't kill Merlina because:
1. She ain't all bad
2. They spent the entire game together, they had an actual friendship
@@concordiaharmony2302 I mean Merlina was pretty obviously not evil just consumed by fear of the inevitability of death.
And even than did Sonic to break out the big speech until after he beat her into powerlessness.
While I will give you him not wanting to skill Surge as what little into she gave for herself to Sonic would imply that there is more to her so is Sonic saying he would never kill the real problem because as we have seen he totally can and will kill if he thinks his opposition is a truly irredeemable monster or if it that or ending the world (poor Emerl).
@@rynobehnke8289 And yet Gemerl still lives.
Sonic, you need a villain to destroy evil
You can’t blame him because he was given the choice to do what he wanted. Sonic can’t blame anyone else but himself
Why does everyone interpret IDW sonic as Steven universe? He’s only let his villains go twice and both times were fairly reasonable. He literally just met Surge and doesn’t really know what she’s even attacking him for, plus EVERY time he meets someone, they fight and later become friends it’s not that unreasonable to think it would happen again. Second is Metal Sonic which he also had a good point Metal has shown before that he can change from Eggman’s coding if given enough time, and without any weapons could possibly quit trying to be Sonic and be his own thing. But you guys are acting like he’s strolling up to Zavok and asking to be besties.
I feel like people are just exaggerating to prove a point. And you do have a point. It isn't that unreasonable for someone to think like this. Not sonic though. IDW sonic comes off like "freedom's #1 fan" and not... freedom itself in carnat. Hell, sonic sometimes comes off as a jerk because peoples life problems slow him down. As for Merlina, if you were freedom itself, you met someone terrified of mortality. Next you know, she's trying to make the world stay the same, forever. To you, that sounds like hell. And you decide to tell this misguided person you're prospective on live. Just long enough to get your point across. Not some multipage, mutispeech bubble, overly preachy speech. Just a little talk to help her get out of this, to you, ###### up mindset.
Surge literally tells Sonic her backstory when they first met and Sonic brushes her off, and Metal Sonic literally cannot not be evil.
@@RealBroccoliHour Not entirely all Surge ever says is that she only exist and had to suffer because Sonic let Eggman and Starline life.
The rest of the story he wouldn't get until they find Surge and Kits construction plans in the "Overpowered" storyline and Evan's writing there is never sighted as a problem despite it even ending on Sonic letting Eggman go free.
You know that the first time Metal changed from Eggman's coding, he still tried to replace all organics with robots?
Man, what did Sonic see in Metal that no one could not
@@rynobehnke8289 Surge even mentioning Surge and Starline in that context should be all he has to hear.
Here lies Sonic.
He ran out of Rings.
And commonsense.
Fans are really stupid if this is what they get from idw sonic
It's more dishonesty than stupidity
The idiot literally admitted that he would rather put innocent lives at risk than put Eggman in jail! At the time, Eggman had just waged war that killed thousands if not millions, NONE OF WHICH were magicked back to life like in Generations or Forces, then he turned almost everyone into melting techno-organic zombies! If THAT isn't a place to draw the line, put your foot down, and lock him up instead of the usual letting him get away, I don't know what is!
Moral: never trust the black knight.
sonic did deserved that one, come on dude! Not everyone is good, how stupid my boy
Very stupid
Game Sonic: Okay I would say something like that but I am not that stupid.
Yeah sonic i dont think hes having it 😅😅😅
Plot twist, Surge the Tenrec is the Black Knight, the armor is actually a mech suit.
20 seconds
20 likes
Now that I've watched the entire video, wow Sonic kkkkkkkkk
He watched enough Steven Universe but not enough Doctor Who. Always be prepared for failure, or think on your feet.
IDW Sonic, is so different than the other Sonic's.
But is one of the strongest sonics.🙃👍
I mean not really
@@D-E-F.2018No he’s not he got overwhelmed from basic badniks 💀
@@DontChuckles with a broken foot or not?
@@D-E-F.2018 Without the broken foot during issue 57
Clearly Sonic didn't see the video of Steven trying to reason with Jack horner haha
i like how you kept the hypocrisy with "sonic" saying "for nobody but yourself" when if he was to actually follow that path,he'd be doing it for "sonic". So in all means,"sonic"'s the hypocrite.
Now I slander IDW Sonic myself but being a good guy is in your best interest. Such as in Arthur's situation, if he were to become a good guy there would be less people like real Sonic or Merlina trying to kill him. He could become good for himself
Hey, guys; I just wanted you to know that Sonic has been over this stupid phase since the end of Issue 55.
Hip hip hooray
I don’t see how RUclips could have possibly marked this “Made for Kids” after that scene. Sheesh
I bet RUclips would mark happy tree friends for kids.
Lmao bro think he’s Talk no Jutsu is gonna have an effect
That did not go as planned! 😅
People keep saying Sonic’s gone soft, but you guys do remember Chaos, right? Dude wiped out the echidnas and drowned Station Square, but Sonic still made peace with him. As for Surge, he literally just met her when he said that. He knew nothing about her at the time.
Chaos actually repented. And had the main source of why he became destructive (negative Chaos energy) removed completely from him.
King Arthur, and in IDW's case, Eggman never does
@@ryannathaniel9296 Chaos never repented either, it's just that the chaos emeralds happened to be there so forgiving Chaos became feasible, especially since removing the negative energy is almost a guarantee that he'll become good. If the chaos emeralds weren't there Sonic would likely let Tikal trap Chaos, probably after he fights Perfect Chaos and loses and sees there's nothing that can be done.
@@ryannathaniel9296 But Sonic was the one who purified him. He was against Tikal’s plan to seal him away. When you think about it, even in games, how often does Sonic actually go for the kill? Not counting the Biolizard since it was a mindless beast.
@@Breakaway-ic5gjexactly, the forgiving and merciful thing sonic did for chaos was beating the negativity out of him, he’s simultaneously dealing with threat and helping without trying to talk him out it.
So we just gonna forget that Sonic only started to care about Chaos until after he learned his backstory and became convinced that the real way to defeat him is by using the positive energy of the Chaos Emeralds to free his mind from the rage that clouds him to show him he is wrong in his believe that all non chao life is evil?
Redeeming Chaos was as simple as removing the negative energy in him and than have a bunch of chao tell him to calm down people that aren't asses like the Echidnas even build cute little gardens for us.
Meanwhile
Archie Sonic: *dropping yet another egg themed space station in his base(d) form* DESU EGGA DA!
Black Knight: *desperately unleashes flurry of attacks*
Sonic: "Too Late! You Pushed My "Limits" Button!" *Starts punching the Death Egg*
Black Knight: *Even more attacks*
Sonic: "CRUSH YOU! JUST LIKE MY LIMITS!"
Yeah, cause game Sonic would never give a speech to humble his enemies. You know, like the one that he gave at the end of the game to Merlina, the one that tried to kill everyone.
He gave it after he defeated her and stopped her, and she wasn't gonna kill everybody she was trying to save her kingdom, there was good in her
@@Breakaway-ic5gj she was still willing to hurt others and kill sonic. And if Sonic ever gives an “speech” in the comics is after a fight like with metal sonic or the zeti, or at least during one with surge. And it s not like letting go of bad guys is also something that he doesnt do in the games, like letting go of chaos in SA 1, or of metal sonic in Heroes, or of eggman in literally every game.
That was to help her come to terms with the inevitability of death not to redeem her.
Tbf, she was more of an anti villian that game compared to all the others. It's a darker reflection of what he said earlier in the game "I'm willing to play the villian for the greater good"
@@spaceace6475 That doesn’t excuse her trying to kill him, or at least it shouldn’t. Is like people give shit to the comics for having sonic give a speech to surge even tho she tried to kill him, but that exact same thing happens here and people love it.
You know, given that this Arthur was a fake, this WOULD happen, no joke.
this comment section made for good popcorn entertainment. thank you.
but yeah, idw sonic is a bit too boring for my taste, definitely prefer when Sonic has some less than favorable flaws to him like his pre-reboot archie self.
These ARE less than favorable flaws, far more so than Preboot Archie, and they made Sonic suck! He cared more about evil's freedom than about innocent lives!
You do realize you're the king right Sonic?
This is why Sonic should just act more like Link and just end his enemies.
Funny enough, he actually does that in Black Knight proper.
and also Secret Rings
the Zeti get pretty destroyed as well.
Eggman comes with Main Villain power and is just tough in general so he keeps surviving.
No. Sonic keeps showing him mercy. He's not even trying to kill him.
@@fatalwaffle1715 In Sonic CD Sonic throws a rock at Eggman when he's trying to run away and blows him up, in Sonic Adventure 1 Sonic chases down Eggman even when he's running away saying "I'll crack that Eggman wide open!" and blows him up again. That sounds like he's trying to me
He destroys the end, the black knight, chaos, and other enemies.
@@Breakaway-ic5gj Then why doesn't he act like he wants Eggman dead?
Skip annoying intro here: 0:07
Sonic Hub made a video concerning this issue. I like the gameplay sonic better than idw sonic. Idw sonic has a terrible philosophy.
Im suprised that the Black Knight didn't kill Sonic while he was yapping
Idw sonic makes me glad the comics aren’t canon lol cuz he’s a well written interpretation, but he wouldn’t last against against his main canon counterparts villians in terms of his willingness to fight
It is canon..
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x no they’re not. There are too many contradictions thag exist within the comics that separates them from the main canon. They’re “canon” sonic media in context to being a separate timeline. But they’re not the main timeline
@@blackhammerxp5489 dude it's literally confirmed it's canon...even tangle's name dropped in frontiers and the lore manager of sonic the hedgehog confirmed it too it's canon to The games
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x that has never been stated once. Also just because the game references one IDW comic character doesn’t automatically make every single piece of IDW sonic comic canon. Especially when again a lot of the comics have massive contradictions that separate them from the main games & it’s canonical establish lore. Also, the dev said that as long as there are no contradictions, and it can be regarded as Canon, but even then you keep forgetting, at the very concept of death of the author exist. Just because the devs/authors believe something is Canon, does not inherently mean it is Canon, especially if it can be proven wrong. The IDW sonic comics, although base it’s lore around the games, not every single piece of its media is canon. To sit here and say that any & or all contradiction successful in the comics are irrelevant because of a particular author statement, it’s being extremely disingenuous. Because again, an author statement can be proven wrong. Thus why death of the author exist in the first place.
@@blackhammerxp5489 dude..even the IDW CHARACTERS ARE IN TYE MOBILE GAMES TOO!! If they weren't canon
Plus idw literally mentioned the events of sonic lost world,colors, generations,sonic adventure 2,sonic unleashed it's all connected to the games why are you gaslighting yourself..
Accurate though. The end had me laughing.
To be fair, I would rather take sonic being overly compassionate, then brutally stabbing the black Knight through the stomach and then celebrating brutal murder (which is what happened in the base game)
Also, are we just going to pretend like he didn’t do the exact same thing to perfect chaos back in sonic adventure? He could’ve just stuck him back in the master emerald, but chose to give him a chance at redemption.
Edit: I just want to emphasize there’s something wrong with disliking IDW and it’s take on sonic. All I’m saying is it’s not like they completely changed everything about the character.
Just another case of people being hypocrites when it comes to Ian Flynn's way of writing Sonic
Stucking Chaos back into the Master Emerald would not solve the problem with, especially regarding his wrath. *Something that Sonic himself said in that game*
So it's not just pure "Sonic wants to redeem the villain because reasons"
Putting Chaos into the Emerald wouldn't stop the problem it would only delay it Sonic wanted to end it ones and for all and the best way he saw for that was to clear Chaos Ancient rage so he can see his original reason for getting mad has long since stop being valid.
Prior to him learning Chaos backstory in Lost World did he during every encounter with Chaos aim to fully get rid of the monster.
It does not have to be r rated, but it doesn’t have to mitigate the consequences for the antagonists. Prison is a fair middle ground for the two.
@@ryannathaniel9296Less “reasons” and more “ because it’s the right thing to do” according to Sonic.
Pretty sure King Arthur took that as an insult
Steven Universe The Hedgehog.
Yes
I guess the black knight's taking peace as a no.
IDW Sonic: YOU-CAN'T-JUST-BE-BAD-THERE-HAS-TO-BE-GOOD-DEEP-WITHIN-YOU-I-KNOW-YOU-CAN-DO-THIS
Jason Griffith Sonic: DON'T CARE!!! 🔥🔥🔥SOULGAUGE SLASH! SOULGAUGE SL-- SOULGAU--, SOUL-- SOULGAUGE SLASH!
Sonic does have a tendency of befriending people who have tried to kill him, Shadow, Silver, and knuckles being an example of this. I don’t think he’d try to befriend this guy though.
@@Skibster-w9l But the IDW fans believe so
I guess I'm not really one to talk since I'm neutral towards IDW Sonic but this is really funny either way
this is why I prefer his "I gotta do, what I gotta do" attitude to this, one is doing what he truly thinks is right even if he has to be the villain than preaching
EDIT: and I don't care who says it, IDW Comics are not Cannon and never will be Cannon, because then that'll open a bunch of other worms that we'll all regret
so are we pretending that Sonic doesn't mention tangle in frontiers
Pure denial and exaggeration.
Why are you gaslighting yourself?
unless their introduce in the games appropriately in a physical form with some kind of plot purpose, no, SEGA known for changing things when they feel like it, they did it to the DiC shows, they did it to Archie/Satam, they did it with X, and they'll eventually do it to IDW and the Movies too, just give it time, enjoy the Adaptation and go on with your day
@@JadenFox9 Sega has no role in DiC productions and Archie Comics, why are you saying?!
0/10
Showing Kindness is NOT a weakness, yeah the black knight is evil but this leaves the the wrong impression.