Great review. I’ve had my Heckler SL for nearly 2 months now. I actually thought the shock was plush for me but had to fiddle more on the fork with some suspension guys here. This bike corners exceptionally well, super planted, and rides chunk (at least for me) like a beast. My first outing was a bike park and boy does this bike like to jump! You never feel going downhill this is an ebike short of feeling it rails corners better likely due to a little more weight. Motor has been solid for me. Love there is no drag on the motor when it’s off. I do feel the first OTB I will do will destroy the ring controller. Hoping FAZUA considers a metal ring component in the future. This bike is so fun!
It’s interesting to hear other people’s thoughts on the bike. I thought the heckler soaks up rocks beautifully in rocky ass Tahoe and the motor has been dead silent. I am running mine at 31% sag and one click of HSC though, and I still have not found bottom even on big hucks to flat to the point where it’s almost weird. For comparison on the Levo SL I had to run 24% sag and the big spacer in the rear shock just to not bottom out constantly. I run my zeb around 10 psi over the high end of recommend for my weight (plus e-bikes), and it matches the VPP so well. My cranks came loose once. I took out a bunch of grease as there was way too much, never happened again. Also my headset originally was super loud and crunchy. Re-greased and it’s been silent. Comparing to non VPP bikes I have found the heckler unbelievably fast not getting hung up, even compared to the Transmission Relay. Perhaps the shock tune is magic for my 175lbs ? I have generally not loved VPP but I thought the latest Bronson and this feel totally different than the previous examples. Even The mega tower felt kind of slow and choppy. Not defending the heckler by any means, just how it rides for me. One of the best jumpers I have had E-bike or not. It’s still a silly bike though. Can’t recommend it for people that want full power or massive range. Can’t recommend it for people that want a deal. It’s about 4 lbs heavier than the Levo SL despite the Levo having DH tires and the heckler having stock thin tires, although it has a bigger battery and a more Efficient motor. The app and screen are miles ahead on the Levo too. It’s a very niche class of bike. But man I feel like I can take on whistlers chunkiest trails on this thing where the Levo SL I would be a lot more conservative for the same travel.
Thanks very much for sharing your input and experience! Have some great points in there for sure. The Levo SL has some issues in our crew’s opinion as well. One of which you addressed with rear shock. It’ll be interesting to see where the category goes.
I was a little disappointed to see the Heckler SL get dropped only a couple months after I bought my Trek Fuel EXe since my other bike is a 2019 Bronson, but I'm honestly shocked at the performance of the suspension on the EXe especially matched with a 160mm fork. I've had a hard time tuning my Bronson's suspension similar to Drew's experience where high frequency chunk/vibrations really just make it through to the pedals/handlebars a lot more than I expected and wanted from a 150mm suspension. I put a Cascade link and DVO Topaz on it for 160mm travel and easier volume tuning and have found a pretty good place where it isn't the worst on that type of terrain, but it took a while to tune out some issues with harsh bottom outs on big hits. Still surprised, but the 140mm on my EXe feels plusher and more active off the top and I've never once had a harsh bottom out - though obviously it can't take as big of hits. I did not at all like the power delivery, cheap controller, or lackluster screen on the Fazua system I demoed on the Transition Relay but really found the TQ system to be super responsive and natural feeling so I went with the EXe instead.
my heckler SL with coil (EXT E-Storia) plows through rough stuff and traction for days! not as good as my 160e with E-Storia but close!! i think VPP like coil better than air.
I have a Bronson V4 with EXT Storia, and rocky stuff like on the video or braking bumps in the alp's are pretty good, i never feel i have to worry about what is happening at the back of the bike, the stock RockShox air shock does give some kick back which i could not tune out. EXT coil all the way.
When I see and read the reviews of Santa Cruz bikes here and on other channels, one point shines through to me more and more: These bikes don't like air shocks! Even if they were designed with or for them. I also went to coil on my Nomad and the bike feels so much better! You should give it a try with coil!
Damn it! I just bought the bike. How can you not love it? You don't know what your talking about. Every bike I have ever owned is the best bike on the market! All kidding asside. Great review and great thoughts. I may have to look at getting a coil. Keep up the great work. Thanks. Going to grab me some Loam Wolf gear.
Haha thanks for having a sense of humor! Luckily, we’ve got restaurants, bikes, and all sorts of other brands that offer a variety of options for all tastes and preferences! Enjoy your new bike!
I demo'd this bike at the SC factory and also in Marin. Agree that the frame/suspension is super poppy and fun on flowy stuff. It feels like a long travel trail bike; definitely not an enduro bike even though the suspension travel is in that range. The motor and interface feels like a beta release to me- a few glitches with the motor interface and the SC demo bike motor started to make a lot of noise at the top of long climbs. Power is very good for an SL bike and the battery life is great- extrapolating I could have gone 5500'+ vertical in River mode. Ultimately decided not get the bike, basically because I'm not convinced of the motor/interface quality and longevity.
Glad you brought it back home to Thousand Oaks/Simi. Localish to that area (SB) and sometime would love a review on best bike for Tunnel trail, besides saying "steroids, balls, guts, glory". Thanks for the review, not in the market but many friends now are wanting e-bikes as groups disperse and finding shuttle buddies takes time.
Regarding VPP on rough terrain, you are right. I ride v1 megatower. I wasnt impresed with the performance of the shock the frame came with. But When I've tried coil shock, or added Megneg do the super deluxe air, or riding FOX X2, the suspenssion works excelent in all conditions. Perhaps its worth mentioning what upgrades the bike would really benefit from.
Would appreciate your review with a coil shock instead of current. Would that mitigate the overly firm suspension feel you mentioned. I appreciate the same feel you do and don’t really want a harsh ride.
I've had a couple of weeks on my SHLeckler, coming off a Kenevo SL (so a tough bar to beat on descending). I was not loving the feel initially....I just felt like I was too far back on the bike, with the front end feeling too light on steep climbs and not enough traction on descents. I slammed my stem (-2cm from how it was delivered) and that extra reach made all the difference--the balance now feels right. BB is a bit low for chunky terrain, but that has advantages when you are not pedaling. It feels tauter than the KSL, but faster and more fun except for chunky plunges, which makes sense given it is not a full on enduro rig. My ring controller is already broken (1st day). Fazua needs to fix that....hell, just open source the CAD and someone will 3D print a better option, freeing up Fazua's resources to get the range extender to market. And thanks for reminding me to tighten my cranks.
Seems like a strange move to go from the Kenevo. Assuming your trails require a full send enduro rig why did you chose this. The relay PNW would 100% be my new bike if I could choose
@@jordanmackay3568 the KSL was amazing. It helped me unlock the confidence for fairly extreme terrain and dramatically improved my performance, but I've slowed down after a couple of crashes last year, and the KSL wants full send. I was looking a bit more oomph but not the weight of a full power. I wanted a slack geo for the steeps but just don't need 170mm for the speeds I ride. I've come to terms with the fact that I am not that rad. The KSL is the better bike for the high speed chunk, but the SHLeckler is close, and the SHLeckler is better everywhere else. Had I stayed in the Specialized family, I would have gotten the updated Levo SL.
For $90 a MegNeg will soften the top of the stroke and give a little more progression at the end while keeping the nice middle to push into in corners and pop. SCs reward an active rider who unweights and pops a lot through gnar. They’re a bit more on the playful end than squishy point and shoot. That said, they’re still plenty plush- a lot of my riding is high speed gnar and my Bronnie eats it up.
I thought they were putting less anti-squat on these newer SC bikes. A coil seems to pare well with the VPP. How do the cascade links effect the small bump on SC bikes?
As you have extensively ridden both the Shuttle SL and the Heckler SL, which one would you prefer if the head angle and front travel of the Shuttle was the same as the Heckler? Running the Shuttle SL with a 160mm fork and an Angleset in the high position would steepen the seat angle and slacken the HA to ~64.3°.
So, @theloamwolf -reading your written transcript and watching this it seems this wasn't a total hit for you. You referenced riding Los Angeles area trails-which is what I ride..Right now I have Orbea Rise - what might you look at as a companion bike- for something with more travel, plusher yet still nimble? And I am not sure about the Fazua platform either... Interested to hear suggestions. Specialized Levo? Transition Repeater? SC Bullit?
This bike is great from Santa Cruz’s side i.e. the Bronson is great so long as you like VPP. My main issue is the reliability of the motor, when the v2 comes out I’m down
@@21armyn yeah same here, I know someone who’s got mileage on the shuttle SL and he’s happy. Then again others on the bike for a week and already after a replacement. Not sure I’d gamble on it personally
I do love my Heckler SL. But already swapped the forks out to 38s, I don't think the Lyriks are bad forks, but I just couldn't get them right, I have read elsewhere they (latest model) might need a rebuild. 38s are great. Suspension is a little harsh given I'm coming off a SC Bullit with Push coil. But still, more than capable through the rough stuff. I think I'll convert to coil at some point. The main thing that seems to be adding to the harshness at the moment is the super stiff SC bars. I still have spare oneup bars, so I will put those on and see how they feel.
Im watching your bike and riding and I really think your criticality of the VPP is a result of the shock not being dialed. I had the same opions about my highttower that you have about this bike (in regards to lack of supplness) and now that is completely gone with a shock upgrade and serious tuning. My personal preference on VPP suspension settings is to set the rebound so the bike does pack down the shock "a little bit" I mean like right on the edge. the benefit is that you can run lower air pressure, and then as the bike compresses you get more and more suspension activity with the change of the leverage curve and increase in shock air pressure. It also gets you a little lower to the ground when youre going really fast. Your shock was also bottomed out on an HBO so if that is going to be a bigger problem with lower air pressure you have a couple options. negative volume spacers with the same air pressure, or a shock with a progressive air can and the appropriate volume spacers to match your preference. I really think you should give it another shot. Now the 27.5 hanging up is a different story
We definitely think it could. Just a coil alone would help a bit… but, then again why not just look at a bike that rides the way you want from the factory?
@@TheLoamWolfbecause manufacturers will make a bike for the majority of the target audience but there will be some groups that want the bike to ride a certain way, ie: coil shock for a more supple off the top feel and ground hugging traction.
I have been watching this bike heavily. I am looking at buying in March. It’s between the SL , regular heckler, trek EXE and rail. One thing I can’t understand is it seems the Trek offerings are priced higher than SC. The pricing on the SC heckler GX-T is about $1k less than the same Trek. What gives? The TQ seems to be one of the most reliable. I am a VPP rider now. I had trek before but the suspension was not snappy enough feeling for me. Ebike might change the ride characteristics I am looking for.
Loam wolf did a great comparison of SL bikes in 2023 with the transition relay being the standout. How would you compare the Heckler SL to the Relay ? Which would you choose ?
For the riding we like to do, we would pick the Relay all day. More capable and confident in gnarlier terrain, having a removeable battery is somewhat a bonus, and ultimately can get more for the dollar with transition. The heckler is a good trail bike and is a bit more playful. The Heckler SL will be in this years SL/Lightweight/midpower whatever you want to call it group test. Unfortunately, transition didnt get us a relay this year despite best efforts (they wanted to get us a 2025 model, but didnt show up in time).
Coming from a 540w battery and very interested in the heckler SL. I'm about 145lbs on a good day and I can ride an easily 20 miles on trail with my yt decoy and not even use 40 percent of the battery.. and that's with a little over 2500' of climbing. Wondering how much different it would be with the smaller battery and lighter bike.. I know weight of rider and all That takes a big play in it with range on different bikes but also coming for a 170/165 travel bike how well will the heckler sl handle bigger hits ? I like big jumps
Same impression I had with the Heckler 9. Bike was very poppy and fun on flowy trails. In the so cal chunk the bike could not keep up. Suprisingly harsh ride and not composed at all. Sold it and bought an ibis oso....way better in the chunk and just as poppy.
Heckler SL vs Transition Relay? which one would you be most happy with for your type of trails? Which one is better overall in the chunky DH, feels poppy as well and jumps good? If you could also describe the difference in feel of the rear end suspension design between the two.
Transition Relay is for sure more confident, smoother, and would be our pick on rougher trails and bigger sends. SC - stiff, platform, efficient, poppy but not as supple off the top. TR - Plush, smooth, sensitive, lively, poppy
Hey thanks for watching. We actually have an SL EMTB Shootout that we posted just before this bike was released. In that series you’ll find some of those bikes and the reasons why as well as suggestions for different types of riders and terrain. Transition Relay, Cannondale Moterra Neo SL, Pivot Shuttle SL for XC/trail riders, the new Ari Nebo Peak, Giant has one that also really impressed the crew. Hope that helps and that other video gives a more detailed answer.
Regarding VPP on rough terrain, I don not think this generalization is accurate. I've been riding the bronson v3 it was not harsh at all despite being not really plush. But I needec to get a meg neg and a custom tune to get the bottom out resistance and comfort I wanted. Now I got a nomad v5 and man this thing is plush with the super deluxe select+ out of the box. its buttery buttery plush, comparable with my norco aurum (the old horst link one). With megneg it has a little more support without losing any of the plushness. I think it comes down to shock tune and kinematic nuances of a specific model, not VPP in general.
You do bring up some valid points! VPP does inherently have certain traits, just as a four-bar or DW or single pivot would. They can be “more or less” pronounced based on other tuning and design parameters and shock tuning, but overall a design will have its trademark feel. That said, not all SC bikes have the same amount of feedback and stiffness. We’ve ridden some models that are quite impressive and have us eating our words, and others fall inline with what we’d expect. Anti-squat numbers, leverage rates, amount of travel, ebike or non-E are just a few things that can have one Santa Cruz rider feeling one thing, and other saying something else! Not to mention rider weight or what bikes they’re ridden previously for comparison! If they came off an Intense vs a Trek or Norco or Pivot they’d all have very different comparisons. We try to base it off the hundreds of bikes we’ve spent considerable time on. Thanks for sharing your input!!
Great review as always, you’re around the same weight as me so how did you find the range. I’m around 200lbs or 215lbs with all my gear. I don’t need to get up the hill the quickest. I like the idea of the lighter but feeling it’s only for short blasts or is the range and climbing ok? It’s down to this bike for me or the Orbea Wild. Thx
Very dependent on ride mode and pitch if the hill, but I was able to get 3,000 feet of slower/lower assist climbing out of it and more. But it’s certainly not a full power.
Compared to my Orbea Rise M10, my Heckler Sl S model is much more planted and corners much better. Power on the Heckler Sl is muted compared with the Orbea. But, I never rode the Orbea too much in boost to save battery. So over all, the Heckler SL has a better range than the smaller battery Orbea and a similar usable power. I find the 10 second super boost a little hard to use. Sometime on rough terrain, I can' t easily get it actuated. Its also often too short a run, and 10 second power run down on steep climbs can be a little freaky. Consequently, I use it a lot less than I thought I would. The stealth feature is great. Few riders seem to figure it out. So here in ebike hater country in Colorado, its a great feature.
@@jmrider07171Vivid makes a noticeable difference. Much more plush, less of that wooden feeling that you get out of a super deluxe. Added Goodyear Wrangler E tires. AMAZING Laced to We Are One convergent triad carbon hoops in this tracks incredibly well right now. Highly recommend.!!!
For a while they were close to each other in my opinion however about 5-7 years ago both Santa Cruz and Pivots DW bikes (and shock technology) started Making improvements. I run Pivot does DW very well and it offer a nice blend of pedal performance, support and a more forgiving ride than VPP.
Interesting review but got to disagree with its ability to get through chunk and rougher stuff. I ride roots and rocks its never made me think I need more plush. Sounds like you have a bit of a preconceived idea of VPP before riding it. Take some LSC off or run lower psi on back.
There’s a difference between loving rocks and wanting a bike that doesn’t beat you up while going over them for extended descents and longer rides. Bikes that allow you to not fatigue and ride faster, longer over rocks are more desirable for riders who love and spend time in them.
Did you check out our SL group review? Results still stand. But this is a fun bike and can be a better option for some who don’t need that much travel or want a stiffer suspension platform. So, long story short, I personally would still pick Relay.
I’m trying to decide between these two now. Do you think the relay still corners as well with 29” wheels? I think I want the Fox 36 and non coil but the rear 27.5” for cornering is interesting idea (but I’m also 6’, so maybe it isn’t a big deal?)
@@TheLoamWolf rock shox always used this stupid idea of a preloaded rebound stack, that results in what you describe- poor compliance as a result of packing down essentially, that's compounded somewhat by the progressive linkage, being VPP or Horst has nothing to do with it, neither does "brake jack" or anti squat really. I can say that my Propain Tyee with a Mara Pro out back doesn't suffer from this issue, my previous bike that had 130mm travel did, it was terrible with the factory RS shock, and then much better with a Manitou McLeod, but still not bety good, as a result of not having enough travel for what I was riding with it really 😂 a single hole used it all 😉
at some point we just go to Electric “motorcycle “ with dummy pedals . this is the “bridge era” the next generation will go from electric scooters as kids to electric motorcycles then Tesla . bicycle scene is just helping .
I've been riding my whole life and was recently diagnosed with DCM. While I can still exercise to a degree I have to keep my heart rate at a moderate level and not let it get above 130. A bike like this allows me to continue to ride with a safe way to assist if my HR raises too high and still keep up with friends on the trail. Without a bike like this MTB wouldn't be an option anymore.
I've realized even suspension shops can't agree on something basic like sag. Maybe this guy is running 20% on the shock or even firmer and is wondering why it feels like garbage. I had my heckler professionally set up by stillwell performance in Phoenix and he tried to run a crazy high pressure that no other shop would recommend. Don't trust this guy even if it is a big channel. Plenty of people think the vpp is plush and supple. Who knows how this guy set his shock up wrong and want to complain about it
Believe it was mentioned in the first ride report as well as in the written review, I experimented with various sag all the way up to 35%, different rebound rates and more….it’s pretty understood, even by people who work at Santa Cruz, that VPP has downsides, and that downside is soft and supple or (plushness) off the top. So, perhaps there are people who think VPP is plush just haven’t ridden enough other bikes to know the difference?? Look, we never try to put people down for what they like, or prefer to ride. We are happy when people love their bikes! Even if it’s a bike we don’t. But our job, after having ridden hundreds and hundreds of bikes, is to compare them to other bikes we’ve ridden and help give honest feedback so people can take our impressions, yes with a grain of salt, and decide if the terrain we ride the bike on or our weight/style of riding is helpful to them or not. Where we have problems is when people want to accuse insult or insinuate we have motives beyond those mentioned above. This isn’t unique to bicycles, imagine a person who has driven 4 generations of Toyota Tundras telling a professional car tester who hops out of a Ford Raptor and tests a Tundra and has criticisms about the Tundra, the he doesn’t know what he’s talking about… does that mean Tundras suck? Or nobody should love or want a Tundra?? No, Tundras are great trucks and loved by many! but that also doesn’t mean there are not performance differences that an open minded tester would not observe. Hope that helps you understand our experience and perspective a bit more. We believe our honesty and explanations about who/what/where bikes do and don’t perform is exactly why people should trust us, but apparently we should do better about clearly explaining every setting we test bikes in to clear any thoughts like yours. Thanks
You could go back in time 10 years and stop e-bikes from being invented. Orrrr, you could find a way to zap our brains to remove our desire to love descending so much and instead make us prefer climbing to having more fun and downhill trail time. If you go that route, please also remove chairlifts and shuttle trucks. 😂😂
Was hoping to hear a roundup with the Heckler SL compared to Pivot Shuttle Sl, and Giant Herp-Derp. I was excited this year to see so many cool SL bikes. Was hoping to replace my old 2016 Haibike. Instead I pulled the trigger on an Acoustic, got the Pivot Trail 429, DW Link, FTW. I’m hoping in a few years these will improve, integration needs to catch-up with Specialized. Perhaps if Toyota’s solid state batteries can make it through the bike industry we can see full power e-bikes, with long range in an SL, sub 40 lbs build. As Queen said, “I want it all, and I want it now”
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Great review. I’ve had my Heckler SL for nearly 2 months now. I actually thought the shock was plush for me but had to fiddle more on the fork with some suspension guys here. This bike corners exceptionally well, super planted, and rides chunk (at least for me) like a beast. My first outing was a bike park and boy does this bike like to jump! You never feel going downhill this is an ebike short of feeling it rails corners better likely due to a little more weight. Motor has been solid for me. Love there is no drag on the motor when it’s off. I do feel the first OTB I will do will destroy the ring controller. Hoping FAZUA considers a metal ring component in the future. This bike is so fun!
It’s interesting to hear other people’s thoughts on the bike. I thought the heckler soaks up rocks beautifully in rocky ass Tahoe and the motor has been dead silent. I am running mine at 31% sag and one click of HSC though, and I still have not found bottom even on big hucks to flat to the point where it’s almost weird. For comparison on the Levo SL I had to run 24% sag and the big spacer in the rear shock just to not bottom out constantly.
I run my zeb around 10 psi over the high end of recommend for my weight (plus e-bikes), and it matches the VPP so well.
My cranks came loose once. I took out a bunch of grease as there was way too much, never happened again. Also my headset originally was super loud and crunchy. Re-greased and it’s been silent.
Comparing to non VPP bikes I have found the heckler unbelievably fast not getting hung up, even compared to the Transmission Relay. Perhaps the shock tune is magic for my 175lbs ?
I have generally not loved VPP but I thought the latest Bronson and this feel totally different than the previous examples. Even The mega tower felt kind of slow and choppy.
Not defending the heckler by any means, just how it rides for me. One of the best jumpers I have had E-bike or not.
It’s still a silly bike though. Can’t recommend it for people that want full power or massive range. Can’t recommend it for people that want a deal. It’s about 4 lbs heavier than the Levo SL despite the Levo having DH tires and the heckler having stock thin tires, although it has a bigger battery and a more Efficient motor. The app and screen are miles ahead on the Levo too.
It’s a very niche class of bike. But man I feel like I can take on whistlers chunkiest trails on this thing where the Levo SL I would be a lot more conservative for the same travel.
Thanks very much for sharing your input and experience! Have some great points in there for sure.
The Levo SL has some issues in our crew’s opinion as well. One of which you addressed with rear shock.
It’ll be interesting to see where the category goes.
I’ll be happy to see some 40lb, full power, and all day range bikes of the future!
I was a little disappointed to see the Heckler SL get dropped only a couple months after I bought my Trek Fuel EXe since my other bike is a 2019 Bronson, but I'm honestly shocked at the performance of the suspension on the EXe especially matched with a 160mm fork. I've had a hard time tuning my Bronson's suspension similar to Drew's experience where high frequency chunk/vibrations really just make it through to the pedals/handlebars a lot more than I expected and wanted from a 150mm suspension. I put a Cascade link and DVO Topaz on it for 160mm travel and easier volume tuning and have found a pretty good place where it isn't the worst on that type of terrain, but it took a while to tune out some issues with harsh bottom outs on big hits. Still surprised, but the 140mm on my EXe feels plusher and more active off the top and I've never once had a harsh bottom out - though obviously it can't take as big of hits.
I did not at all like the power delivery, cheap controller, or lackluster screen on the Fazua system I demoed on the Transition Relay but really found the TQ system to be super responsive and natural feeling so I went with the EXe instead.
@@mikes.8305 Can't wait for solid state battery tech to make its way into the ebike market (or any market for that matter)!
Nice to see you riding Spectrum, and Happy Endings! Definitely fun to session. Great review, too!
Glad you enjoyed it and thank you!! Always love coming back home to ride.
my heckler SL with coil (EXT E-Storia) plows through rough stuff and traction for days! not as good as my 160e with E-Storia but close!! i think VPP like coil better than air.
I have a Bronson V4 with EXT Storia, and rocky stuff like on the video or braking bumps in the alp's are pretty good, i never feel i have to worry about what is happening at the back of the bike, the stock RockShox air shock does give some kick back which i could not tune out. EXT coil all the way.
They definitely ride smoother in the scenarios we talked about with coil.
Thanks for sharing and stoked to hear you’re enjoying the coil upgrade on your bike too.
@@jonibz1456agree I have an Avalanche tuned coil shock on my 5010 V4 with coil in the fork as well. Handles roots and rocks amazingly.
I got a DHX2 on mine and agree!!
Have a Heckler sl on order for my wife. Sounds like a coil shock is the move!
When I see and read the reviews of Santa Cruz bikes here and on other channels, one point shines through to me more and more:
These bikes don't like air shocks! Even if they were designed with or for them.
I also went to coil on my Nomad and the bike feels so much better!
You should give it a try with coil!
no they are just all improperly setup and SC doesnt really put the right tune in them imo.
@@MotorsportsX Thats true. Individual tunings makes so a big difference! RSDU is a really good shock when dialed in correct.
Damn it! I just bought the bike. How can you not love it? You don't know what your talking about. Every bike I have ever owned is the best bike on the market! All kidding asside. Great review and great thoughts. I may have to look at getting a coil. Keep up the great work. Thanks. Going to grab me some Loam Wolf gear.
Haha thanks for having a sense of humor! Luckily, we’ve got restaurants, bikes, and all sorts of other brands that offer a variety of options for all tastes and preferences!
Enjoy your new bike!
I still love the old light blue Heckler with the yellow lettering. Such a great paint scheme.
I demo'd this bike at the SC factory and also in Marin. Agree that the frame/suspension is super poppy and fun on flowy stuff. It feels like a long travel trail bike; definitely not an enduro bike even though the suspension travel is in that range. The motor and interface feels like a beta release to me- a few glitches with the motor interface and the SC demo bike motor started to make a lot of noise at the top of long climbs. Power is very good for an SL bike and the battery life is great- extrapolating I could have gone 5500'+ vertical in River mode. Ultimately decided not get the bike, basically because I'm not convinced of the motor/interface quality and longevity.
Glad you brought it back home to Thousand Oaks/Simi. Localish to that area (SB) and sometime would love a review on best bike for Tunnel trail, besides saying "steroids, balls, guts, glory". Thanks for the review, not in the market but many friends now are wanting e-bikes as groups disperse and finding shuttle buddies takes time.
Any rumblings of a bullit sl in the pipeline? Great vid
Seems like another RUclipsr mentioned the motor noise in the motor that replaced. Could this be the same problem?
Regarding VPP on rough terrain, you are right. I ride v1 megatower. I wasnt impresed with the performance of the shock the frame came with. But When I've tried coil shock, or added Megneg do the super deluxe air, or riding FOX X2, the suspenssion works excelent in all conditions. Perhaps its worth mentioning what upgrades the bike would really benefit from.
Would appreciate your review with a coil shock instead of current. Would that mitigate the overly firm suspension feel you mentioned. I appreciate the same feel you do and don’t really want a harsh ride.
How would you compare the good/bad of the heckler SL to the Fuel exe. (Similar category emtb)
I've had a couple of weeks on my SHLeckler, coming off a Kenevo SL (so a tough bar to beat on descending). I was not loving the feel initially....I just felt like I was too far back on the bike, with the front end feeling too light on steep climbs and not enough traction on descents. I slammed my stem (-2cm from how it was delivered) and that extra reach made all the difference--the balance now feels right. BB is a bit low for chunky terrain, but that has advantages when you are not pedaling. It feels tauter than the KSL, but faster and more fun except for chunky plunges, which makes sense given it is not a full on enduro rig. My ring controller is already broken (1st day). Fazua needs to fix that....hell, just open source the CAD and someone will 3D print a better option, freeing up Fazua's resources to get the range extender to market. And thanks for reminding me to tighten my cranks.
Seems like a strange move to go from the Kenevo. Assuming your trails require a full send enduro rig why did you chose this. The relay PNW would 100% be my new bike if I could choose
@@jordanmackay3568 the KSL was amazing. It helped me unlock the confidence for fairly extreme terrain and dramatically improved my performance, but I've slowed down after a couple of crashes last year, and the KSL wants full send. I was looking a bit more oomph but not the weight of a full power. I wanted a slack geo for the steeps but just don't need 170mm for the speeds I ride. I've come to terms with the fact that I am not that rad. The KSL is the better bike for the high speed chunk, but the SHLeckler is close, and the SHLeckler is better everywhere else. Had I stayed in the Specialized family, I would have gotten the updated Levo SL.
For $90 a MegNeg will soften the top of the stroke and give a little more progression at the end while keeping the nice middle to push into in corners and pop. SCs reward an active rider who unweights and pops a lot through gnar. They’re a bit more on the playful end than squishy point and shoot. That said, they’re still plenty plush- a lot of my riding is high speed gnar and my Bronnie eats it up.
Would you mind dropping your suspension settings, especially with the Lyric
I thought they were putting less anti-squat on these newer SC bikes. A coil seems to pare well with the VPP. How do the cascade links effect the small bump on SC bikes?
Was this a recently recorded vid? Just curious if you're still in town.. I love mine though, got a fox 38 and DHX2 on it. The coil is amazing on it.
Thanks for sharing. Sadly we just left but hope to be back this winter.
@@TheLoamWolf Awesome, We got some epic spots you gotta run. Hopefully we can link up when you're down here brotha. Awesome content as always!
Sounds good to us!
Great review. Helped me decide on the Bullit coil build instead
As you have extensively ridden both the Shuttle SL and the Heckler SL, which one would you prefer if the head angle and front travel of the Shuttle was the same as the Heckler? Running the Shuttle SL with a 160mm fork and an Angleset in the high position would steepen the seat angle and slacken the HA to ~64.3°.
If travel and geo are the same, the pivot.
So, @theloamwolf -reading your written transcript and watching this it seems this wasn't a total hit for you. You referenced riding Los Angeles area trails-which is what I ride..Right now I have Orbea Rise - what might you look at as a companion bike- for something with more travel, plusher yet still nimble? And I am not sure about the Fazua platform either... Interested to hear suggestions. Specialized Levo? Transition Repeater? SC Bullit?
This bike is great from Santa Cruz’s side i.e. the Bronson is great so long as you like VPP. My main issue is the reliability of the motor, when the v2 comes out I’m down
There are certainly things to consider.
@@TheLoamWolf true that, aside from the ring controller, have you noticed anything with the drive unit?
fazua's are hit and miss.. i have a friend with a relay and he has 2200 miles on that thing and still running strong.
@@21armyn yeah same here, I know someone who’s got mileage on the shuttle SL and he’s happy. Then again others on the bike for a week and already after a replacement. Not sure I’d gamble on it personally
Our group only had the issue with that one Controller, otherwise no issues yet…
I do love my Heckler SL. But already swapped the forks out to 38s, I don't think the Lyriks are bad forks, but I just couldn't get them right, I have read elsewhere they (latest model) might need a rebuild. 38s are great. Suspension is a little harsh given I'm coming off a SC Bullit with Push coil. But still, more than capable through the rough stuff. I think I'll convert to coil at some point. The main thing that seems to be adding to the harshness at the moment is the super stiff SC bars. I still have spare oneup bars, so I will put those on and see how they feel.
Weird question but did you switch the rear to a 29er? It looks the same size as the front.
Im watching your bike and riding and I really think your criticality of the VPP is a result of the shock not being dialed. I had the same opions about my highttower that you have about this bike (in regards to lack of supplness) and now that is completely gone with a shock upgrade and serious tuning. My personal preference on VPP suspension settings is to set the rebound so the bike does pack down the shock "a little bit" I mean like right on the edge. the benefit is that you can run lower air pressure, and then as the bike compresses you get more and more suspension activity with the change of the leverage curve and increase in shock air pressure. It also gets you a little lower to the ground when youre going really fast. Your shock was also bottomed out on an HBO so if that is going to be a bigger problem with lower air pressure you have a couple options. negative volume spacers with the same air pressure, or a shock with a progressive air can and the appropriate volume spacers to match your preference. I really think you should give it another shot. Now the 27.5 hanging up is a different story
Peter Stormare rides Santa Cruz , very nice bike .
Does VPP have a lot of chain growth where an O-Chain might help with the chatter?
Good review
Glad you enjoyed it
love that trail ! I ride it a few times a week
That's awesome!
I wonder if a Cascade Components link (when available), with a coil shock would really smooth out the chunk on this bike. Totally did on my Nomad. 🤘🏼
We definitely think it could. Just a coil alone would help a bit… but, then again why not just look at a bike that rides the way you want from the factory?
@@TheLoamWolfbecause manufacturers will make a bike for the majority of the target audience but there will be some groups that want the bike to ride a certain way, ie: coil shock for a more supple off the top feel and ground hugging traction.
@@TheLoamWolf exactly. why do you have to buy a 7k bike then buy a new coil and aftermarket suspension link
@@TheLoamWolf What do you recommend as a eMTB for a more plush and supple ride? Thanks a lot
Trail and scenery are incredible
Thanks very much.
I have been watching this bike heavily. I am looking at buying in March. It’s between the SL , regular heckler, trek EXE and rail. One thing I can’t understand is it seems the Trek offerings are priced higher than SC. The pricing on the SC heckler GX-T is about $1k less than the same Trek. What gives? The TQ seems to be one of the most reliable.
I am a VPP rider now. I had trek before but the suspension was not snappy enough feeling for me. Ebike might change the ride characteristics I am looking for.
what bike would you go for, Hecler(sl) or Orbea Wild?
Greta review, what size is the bike you tested? i'm 5'11 and on the cusp of medium/large?
It was a large and I’m also 5’11
Which helmet is that? Thx! :-)
Fox Speedframe! Love it.
What trail is this the area looks familiar?
It’s Thousand Oaks Ca.
@@TheLoamWolfwas going to say that looked very SoCal to me.
Loam wolf did a great comparison of SL bikes in 2023 with the transition relay being the standout. How would you compare the Heckler SL to the Relay ? Which would you choose ?
For the riding we like to do, we would pick the Relay all day. More capable and confident in gnarlier terrain, having a removeable battery is somewhat a bonus, and ultimately can get more for the dollar with transition. The heckler is a good trail bike and is a bit more playful.
The Heckler SL will be in this years SL/Lightweight/midpower whatever you want to call it group test. Unfortunately, transition didnt get us a relay this year despite best efforts (they wanted to get us a 2025 model, but didnt show up in time).
Coming from a 540w battery and very interested in the heckler SL. I'm about 145lbs on a good day and I can ride an easily 20 miles on trail with my yt decoy and not even use 40 percent of the battery.. and that's with a little over 2500' of climbing. Wondering how much different it would be with the smaller battery and lighter bike.. I know weight of rider and all
That takes a big play in it with range on different bikes but also coming for a 170/165 travel bike how well will the heckler sl handle bigger hits ? I like big jumps
Keeping my Relay. 😊
Same impression I had with the Heckler 9. Bike was very poppy and fun on flowy trails. In the so cal chunk the bike could not keep up. Suprisingly harsh ride and not composed at all. Sold it and bought an ibis oso....way better in the chunk and just as poppy.
What trail in TO was that? Been wanting to ride out there. 🤙
Spectrum and happy ending out of triunfo park.
Heckler SL vs Transition Relay? which one would you be most happy with for your type of trails? Which one is better overall in the chunky DH, feels poppy as well and jumps good? If you could also describe the difference in feel of the rear end suspension design between the two.
Transition Relay is for sure more confident, smoother, and would be our pick on rougher trails and bigger sends.
SC - stiff, platform, efficient, poppy but not as supple off the top.
TR - Plush, smooth, sensitive, lively, poppy
@@TheLoamWolf Sounds like the TR checks all the boxes for me.
It look like that motor is very whiny going uphill???
You said this wouldn't be the e-SL you'd buy... so, which would you buy and find better than this?
Hey thanks for watching. We actually have an SL EMTB Shootout that we posted just before this bike was released. In that series you’ll find some of those bikes and the reasons why as well as suggestions for different types of riders and terrain.
Transition Relay, Cannondale Moterra Neo SL, Pivot Shuttle SL for XC/trail riders, the new Ari Nebo Peak, Giant has one that also really impressed the crew.
Hope that helps and that other video gives a more detailed answer.
What trail is this?
Heckler SL or Relay for Southern Utah?
Personally, we’d go Relay for comfort and traction.
Regarding VPP on rough terrain, I don not think this generalization is accurate. I've been riding the bronson v3 it was not harsh at all despite being not really plush. But I needec to get a meg neg and a custom tune to get the bottom out resistance and comfort I wanted. Now I got a nomad v5 and man this thing is plush with the super deluxe select+ out of the box. its buttery buttery plush, comparable with my norco aurum (the old horst link one). With megneg it has a little more support without losing any of the plushness. I think it comes down to shock tune and kinematic nuances of a specific model, not VPP in general.
You do bring up some valid points! VPP does inherently have certain traits, just as a four-bar or DW or single pivot would. They can be “more or less” pronounced based on other tuning and design parameters and shock tuning, but overall a design will have its trademark feel. That said, not all SC bikes have the same amount of feedback and stiffness. We’ve ridden some models that are quite impressive and have us eating our words, and others fall inline with what we’d expect. Anti-squat numbers, leverage rates, amount of travel, ebike or non-E are just a few things that can have one Santa Cruz rider feeling one thing, and other saying something else! Not to mention rider weight or what bikes they’re ridden previously for comparison! If they came off an Intense vs a Trek or Norco or Pivot they’d all have very different comparisons. We try to base it off the hundreds of bikes we’ve spent considerable time on.
Thanks for sharing your input!!
we’re going to need huge gel saddles for these
1st 🥇 great honest review
Appreciate that! Thank you
Great review as always, you’re around the same weight as me so how did you find the range. I’m around 200lbs or 215lbs with all my gear. I don’t need to get up the hill the quickest. I like the idea of the lighter but feeling it’s only for short blasts or is the range and climbing ok? It’s down to this bike for me or the Orbea Wild. Thx
Very dependent on ride mode and pitch if the hill, but I was able to get 3,000 feet of slower/lower assist climbing out of it and more. But it’s certainly not a full power.
Thx!!
Compared to my Orbea Rise M10, my Heckler Sl S model is much more planted and corners much better. Power on the Heckler Sl is muted compared with the Orbea. But, I never rode the Orbea too much in boost to save battery. So over all, the Heckler SL has a better range than the smaller battery Orbea and a similar usable power. I find the 10 second super boost a little hard to use. Sometime on rough terrain, I can' t easily get it actuated. Its also often too short a run, and 10 second power run down on steep climbs can be a little freaky. Consequently, I use it a lot less than I thought I would.
The stealth feature is great. Few riders seem to figure it out. So here in ebike hater country in Colorado, its a great feature.
On behalf of every normal rider, please stop buying Ebikes and encouraging this nonsense. Thanks.
About to throw a Vivid on mine to let the rear plow a little more.
Very curious about this setup. Check back in plz.
@@jmrider07171Vivid makes a noticeable difference. Much more plush, less of that wooden feeling that you get out of a super deluxe.
Added Goodyear Wrangler E tires. AMAZING
Laced to We Are One convergent triad carbon hoops in this tracks incredibly well right now. Highly recommend.!!!
dude what helmet is that?
It's a Fox Speedframe! Love it!
Do you feel the same way about the rear suspension performance with dw link bikes or are dw-link bikes more plush off the top compared to VPP?
For a while they were close to each other in my opinion however about 5-7 years ago both Santa Cruz and Pivots DW bikes (and shock technology) started Making improvements. I run Pivot does DW very well and it offer a nice blend of pedal performance, support and a more forgiving ride than VPP.
Interesting review but got to disagree with its ability to get through chunk and rougher stuff. I ride roots and rocks its never made me think I need more plush. Sounds like you have a bit of a preconceived idea of VPP before riding it. Take some LSC off or run lower psi on back.
Why wasn’t it in the shootout?
It wasn't out yet when we began testing and filming our SL Shootout.
Good thing I don’t even know what VPP is.
“I love rocks” also. “ I don’t want to feel the rocks”. Kinda sounds like you don’t actually like chunky terrain.
There’s a difference between loving rocks and wanting a bike that doesn’t beat you up while going over them for extended descents and longer rides. Bikes that allow you to not fatigue and ride faster, longer over rocks are more desirable for riders who love and spend time in them.
So , Relay or Heckler for you?🤔
Did you check out our SL group review? Results still stand. But this is a fun bike and can be a better option for some who don’t need that much travel or want a stiffer suspension platform. So, long story short, I personally would still pick Relay.
@@TheLoamWolf of course i saw it🤘, but wanted to be sure if i understand it correct from this review. I have the Relay and agree with you 👏
🤘🏻
I’m trying to decide between these two now. Do you think the relay still corners as well with 29” wheels? I think I want the Fox 36 and non coil but the rear 27.5” for cornering is interesting idea (but I’m also 6’, so maybe it isn’t a big deal?)
Yeah great apart from you order one and then wait for a year for it to turn up!!!! Uk stock is terrible
Its not the VPP imo, its the shock.
In the words of Billy Madison, it takes two to tango, or something like that.
@@TheLoamWolf rock shox always used this stupid idea of a preloaded rebound stack, that results in what you describe- poor compliance as a result of packing down essentially, that's compounded somewhat by the progressive linkage, being VPP or Horst has nothing to do with it, neither does "brake jack" or anti squat really. I can say that my Propain Tyee with a Mara Pro out back doesn't suffer from this issue, my previous bike that had 130mm travel did, it was terrible with the factory RS shock, and then much better with a Manitou McLeod, but still not bety good, as a result of not having enough travel for what I was riding with it really 😂 a single hole used it all 😉
The cable routing is hideous.
at some point we just go to Electric “motorcycle “ with dummy pedals . this is the “bridge era” the next generation will go from electric scooters as kids to electric motorcycles then Tesla . bicycle scene is just helping .
I've been riding my whole life and was recently diagnosed with DCM. While I can still exercise to a degree I have to keep my heart rate at a moderate level and not let it get above 130. A bike like this allows me to continue to ride with a safe way to assist if my HR raises too high and still keep up with friends on the trail. Without a bike like this MTB wouldn't be an option anymore.
first
I've realized even suspension shops can't agree on something basic like sag. Maybe this guy is running 20% on the shock or even firmer and is wondering why it feels like garbage. I had my heckler professionally set up by stillwell performance in Phoenix and he tried to run a crazy high pressure that no other shop would recommend. Don't trust this guy even if it is a big channel. Plenty of people think the vpp is plush and supple. Who knows how this guy set his shock up wrong and want to complain about it
Believe it was mentioned in the first ride report as well as in the written review, I experimented with various sag all the way up to 35%, different rebound rates and more….it’s pretty understood, even by people who work at Santa Cruz, that VPP has downsides, and that downside is soft and supple or (plushness) off the top.
So, perhaps there are people who think VPP is plush just haven’t ridden enough other bikes to know the difference??
Look, we never try to put people down for what they like, or prefer to ride. We are happy when people love their bikes! Even if it’s a bike we don’t. But our job, after having ridden hundreds and hundreds of bikes, is to compare them to other bikes we’ve ridden and help give honest feedback so people can take our impressions, yes with a grain of salt, and decide if the terrain we ride the bike on or our weight/style of riding is helpful to them or not.
Where we have problems is when people want to accuse insult or insinuate we have motives beyond those mentioned above.
This isn’t unique to bicycles, imagine a person who has driven 4 generations of Toyota Tundras telling a professional car tester who hops out of a Ford Raptor and tests a Tundra and has criticisms about the Tundra, the he doesn’t know what he’s talking about… does that mean Tundras suck? Or nobody should love or want a Tundra?? No, Tundras are great trucks and loved by many! but that also doesn’t mean there are not performance differences that an open minded tester would not observe.
Hope that helps you understand our experience and perspective a bit more.
We believe our honesty and explanations about who/what/where bikes do and don’t perform is exactly why people should trust us, but apparently we should do better about clearly explaining every setting we test bikes in to clear any thoughts like yours.
Thanks
What can we do to get you to never review an Ebike again?
You could go back in time 10 years and stop e-bikes from being invented. Orrrr, you could find a way to zap our brains to remove our desire to love descending so much and instead make us prefer climbing to having more fun and downhill trail time. If you go that route, please also remove chairlifts and shuttle trucks. 😂😂
@@TheLoamWolf shut up and stop the cringe
Hahaha. 😂
Was hoping to hear a roundup with the Heckler SL compared to Pivot Shuttle Sl, and Giant Herp-Derp. I was excited this year to see so many cool SL bikes. Was hoping to replace my old 2016 Haibike. Instead I pulled the trigger on an Acoustic, got the Pivot Trail 429, DW Link, FTW.
I’m hoping in a few years these will improve, integration needs to catch-up with Specialized. Perhaps if Toyota’s solid state batteries can make it through the bike industry we can see full power e-bikes, with long range in an SL, sub 40 lbs build. As Queen said, “I want it all, and I want it now”
Little fellers actually excited for Ebikes 😂😂😂😂
@@DB-sd3cwwhat's wrong with ebikes little feller?
Full power or bust!
We don’t disagree! But these are getting more exciting.
I've been going back and forth, at 230 lbs I think I have to go full power
First