very nice! I also made those experiences, and you can reduce delay by changing the encryption algorithm and coding sizes, or using simple telnet. I have tested also the ftp, pop3 and smtp email, and textual web-browsing using lynx (with no graphic images). another experience was using full-duplex AX25 access by having two channels of communication (RX and TX) in two different frequencies (VHF and UHF), total of 4 radios and 4 tncs. in this scenery I used 1200 bps for uplink (2 VHF radios and 2 tncs) and 9600 bps for downlink (2 UHF radios and 2 tncs), and the final result was much more satisfactory with less delays, being able to be used as a "slow full duplex link"... regards, Roney
If you're talking about people connecting over the radio, they can simply connect to the callsign configured on the ax25 interface using the ax25 protocol (like connecting to any other packet node). IP runs over the top of this but is purely optional; the interface will respond to ax.25 or IP traffic.
Thanks for the comments. I'll try to find some time to do a more thorough overview of the TNC-Pi. It's a great little TNC and very simple to set up and use.
You could use a rolling code to authenticate your login. That's how those keyfobs for cars prevent replay attacks. Or something as simple as jumbling around the digits of the current date and time in a way only you know about would do the trick.
Do you have any good step by step resources for duplicating this setup?I have the PC, TNC, and 2 meter radio all connected and working but I am unsure of how to setup the AX.25 and IP links.
Can you please detail how you fixed the ping issue? How did you find the correct audio level? Is it possible to connect 2 RPi using SSH / telnet or is it required to have a server - client setup? Thanks!
I've got a couple of PK-232MBXs that I was given recently. I'm wondering why I'd use an old hardware TNC like that instead of a modern software TNC like Direwolf?
Hi - thanks for the comment. In all honesty, Direwolf will be more sensitive and even offers error correction. However, I do enjoy using these old devices and it's weirdly satisfying to see the LEDs blinking. Also, more usefully, a traditional TNC will allow unattended mailbox operation (and possibly more) without needing to have a PC powered up 24/7.
@@SteveNetting Thanks, Steve. I suspected that such was the case. There's a lot of these old hardware TNCs out there and I think most of them are just being used for the sake of nostalgia. I think I'll set up one of them as a VHF packet BBS and keep the other as a spare. What do you think?
Will the Pi be a replacement for a PK232? As PK232 has NAVTEX, AMTOR, FAX as well as Packet, could Pi be used along with a faster rate @9300 or even 38400 or above for transmission. I don't want a PK setup that is large and taking up space when a Pi can be smaller and squared away somewhere so not really seen. Thoughts?
On 70cm you can use a 9600 packet. I use it for winlink email when the storms come by and fuck shit up and also travel. Pretty fun, my internet sucks at times,
I'm running ax25-tools along with soundmodem software... I have tcp/ip working ( and loving it ) however is there an easy way with soundmodem to run a bbs. I could run an old fashioned tcp/ip bbs however then others would have to know the ip address, etc.
I love it!!! How much cost to build cheap one and what is needed from hardwares..i think that is P2P but i want have and the ability to send data to all listeners like andflmsg app and i want to work it like a server for others to connect on me ex: 5pc to the central BTS like ISP..(air ISP internet access) but i want to have some faster speed 56k or more if is it possible. Can be done an old 56k modem to communicate over the ham radio with only rj11 to audio Jack adapter with dual link ham radio baofeng? I need the cheeper and best solution. The 51tnc is good for that i needed? Please give me solutions. My regards
The TNC-pi will only run at 1200 baud. It should be possible to run 9600 using a soundmodem driver, however your radio will also need to be capable of this (a dedicated 9600 packet port, or audio taken directly from the discriminator).
I'm not entirely sure if this is legal (might constitute a "secret code") but you could secure it with Google Authenticator. The way it works is that your computer and your phone both generate time-dependant one-time-passwords. The 6-digit numeric code changes in sync every 30 seconds on the two devices. To log in, you have to enter a password and a code, and you can restrict each code to be usable only once.
so this is good for email and irc. you mentioned that encryption is not allowed. but why tho? I always thought the only states that didn't allow encryption were authoritarian, like cuba or iran.
Jim Stick Public transmissions using pubic frequencies are not allowed to be encrypted for various reasons. Now if you had a business frequency (Ie telephone carriers do encrypt, or a encrypted business two way radio system) then encryption is allowed to protect the assets of the business. However, at least in the US, all transmissions must be sent without encryption to protect the airwaves as Amateur radio is self-policeing. That way, someone can do a transmission with their callsign and people who can decode the afsk can tell who originated the transmission.
+T-LETonTECH +Jim Stick I'm a little fuzzy on this. Since your callsign is unencrypted in the ax-25 headers, then SSH would be acceptable. The encapsulated part is just binary data, right?
Have you tried using two TNC-X/TNC-Pi's in the AX.25 TCPIP case? You are using a PK88 modem and a TNC-Pi in this video. However, I have seen lots of complaints about AX.25 ping failures between two TNC-X/TNC-Pi's. I have one TNC-X and one TNC-Pi, connecting to two Ubuntu Raspberry Pi's, respectively. When either side acts as the source side to issue a ping command, the KISS TNC's red LED lights up correctly, and the Baofeng radios light up in correct order (source side red, then destination side green), but the destination side simply fails to receive the packet (nothing shows up in axlisten -a, and there is no ping response). I tried to use soundmodem (software KISS TNC) to replace the TNC-X/TNC-Pi, and gdb into the software KISS TNC programs, then I figured out the ARP response or ping response (i.e., a response package from the TCP/IP protocol stack) comes back to the destination side too early when the destination side radio is still in the receiving mode (i.e., with green LED on). I tried to set the TXdelay to the maximal value allowed, on TNC-Pi using pitnc-setparams program the maximal value is 255, on TNC-X I just turn R13 clockwisely to the end. No luck to make the ping work. My guess is that I need to set TXdelay to be a larger value (e.g., 800), but TNC-Pi/TNC-X cannot do it. So I just wonder if you have been in the same shoes.
BTW, would you please describe your TNC-Pi settings? Is it possible that your radios have some digital features that are missing in Baofeng UV5R handsets, so the TNC-Pi works well?
I've figured out what's gone wrong in my case: the Baofeng radios. illruminations.com/2014/01/15/baofeng-packet-radio-adventures/ Steve Conklin, AI4QR's investigation shows that Baofeng radios cannot work with TinyTrak4 (similar to TNC-X, TNC-Pi) "because the software in the radio only turns on power to the audio amplifier when it wants to make a sound." To solve the problem, you have to implement hardware Carrier Detect or something equivalent as shown in larr-project.blogspot.com/2014/01/elegant-solution-for-carrier-detect-in.html
I think that not in all jurisdictions is against license conditions. Eventually, who cares. "I was just sending random data from my local /dev/urandom" and you're set.
could you please explain more how you activate your port and your TNC to comunicate, I've also tried it but get no interaction, no pakets run over air... ??? I'm using an TNC 2400 using KISS- mode with these instructions: www.tldp.org/HOWTO/AX25-HOWTO/x1194.html
You should Deffinently do a video about that Raspberry pi and tnc-pi. I am very interested in one but can find nothing about it like how it works (good or bad) or how it is set up. or even in use as the raspberry pi as the client.
Great video!! Could you show us how to setup the RPi and TCP/IP? I would love to use a couple RPi's with Alinco DR-235TMKIII's (w/TNC installed). The DR-235T's can switch from 1200 to 9600 with a KISS command. --73 de N1OBU
Very interesting! Could u measure the after deductions data rate over tcp/ip in ftp? I m interested in making xmpp massaging over ax25. Not necassarily on ham frequencies. 73
I badly want to implement this on our Titan rover (Titanrover.com). It's so difficult to find documentation on ax.25. We would have ham operators, and use a Linux computer on our rover running telnet. Since we have to communicate with our rover from a distance, this would be the perfect solution. I'm going to check out your site, but if you have config files or ANY documentation on how you set up your Linux machine, it would be so helpful. I already have a pi3, and tncPi2. Please share! ☺️ This is amazing.
Hi Richard - it's surprisingly easy. I thought I'd written a 'howto' but I now can't find it. When you configure an ax.25 interface under Linux the IP address is optional but once you do specify it - you're good to go. Something like 'kissattach /dev/ttyS0 portname 10.0.0.1" where (I think) portname is the device you've specified in /etc/ax25/axports. You will need to disable any auto-discovery services that will otherwise tie up the interface, though. It's been a while since I've done this but please do drop me an email (either google or via www.m0spn.co.uk). Good luck!
very nice! I also made those experiences, and you can reduce delay by changing the encryption algorithm and coding sizes, or using simple telnet. I have tested also the ftp, pop3 and smtp email, and textual web-browsing using lynx (with no graphic images).
another experience was using full-duplex AX25 access by having two channels of communication (RX and TX) in two different frequencies (VHF and UHF), total of 4 radios and 4 tncs. in this scenery I used 1200 bps for uplink (2 VHF radios and 2 tncs) and 9600 bps for downlink (2 UHF radios and 2 tncs), and the final result was much more satisfactory with less delays, being able to be used as a "slow full duplex link"...
regards, Roney
Using this method, it would take over 1 month to send an 8MB MP3 file.
But still, this is absolutely spot on.
+plebian yes, because sending 8mb mp3 files is just what military men need!
+Феофан Это поле должно быть заполнено I know haha, I'm just saying if it were used by consumers.
+plebian Well, here's a basic web page loading ... ruclips.net/video/utqSOfuVcMI/видео.html ;)
+Steve Netting Also, Bauhaus++ ;)
Steve Netting Haha that's solid! Also yes, loved the school!
Yes, my mistake. I demonstrated the connection here using ICMP; usually I'd then demonstrate telnet or similar too.
If you're talking about people connecting over the radio, they can simply connect to the callsign configured on the ax25 interface using the ax25 protocol (like connecting to any other packet node). IP runs over the top of this but is purely optional; the interface will respond to ax.25 or IP traffic.
Nice test! Im planning to set sensor network on this standart, and just start it alone, all info need to find by myself. Thanks!
Thanks for the comments. I'll try to find some time to do a more thorough overview of the TNC-Pi. It's a great little TNC and very simple to set up and use.
You could use a rolling code to authenticate your login. That's how those keyfobs for cars prevent replay attacks. Or something as simple as jumbling around the digits of the current date and time in a way only you know about would do the trick.
Correct. When demonstrating IP over packet at local clubs I typically show ping, telnet, ftp, etc. Here I only show ICMP - my mistake!
Do you have any good step by step resources for duplicating this setup?I have the PC, TNC, and 2 meter radio all connected and working but I am unsure of how to setup the AX.25 and IP links.
If I am a beginner at linux and want to do this, where should I start?
Google, without a doubt
Can you please detail how you fixed the ping issue? How did you find the correct audio level? Is it possible to connect 2 RPi using SSH / telnet or is it required to have a server - client setup? Thanks!
I've got a couple of PK-232MBXs that I was given recently. I'm wondering why I'd use an old hardware TNC like that instead of a modern software TNC like Direwolf?
Hi - thanks for the comment. In all honesty, Direwolf will be more sensitive and even offers error correction. However, I do enjoy using these old devices and it's weirdly satisfying to see the LEDs blinking. Also, more usefully, a traditional TNC will allow unattended mailbox operation (and possibly more) without needing to have a PC powered up 24/7.
@@SteveNetting Thanks, Steve. I suspected that such was the case. There's a lot of these old hardware TNCs out there and I think most of them are just being used for the sake of nostalgia. I think I'll set up one of them as a VHF packet BBS and keep the other as a spare. What do you think?
hi
very interesting... thx for sharing
recently i tested NPR-70 and it was 20 times faster
i wonder if you have tested new packet radio?
Will the Pi be a replacement for a PK232? As PK232 has NAVTEX, AMTOR, FAX as well as Packet, could Pi be used along with a faster rate @9300 or even 38400 or above for transmission. I don't want a PK setup that is large and taking up space when a Pi can be smaller and squared away somewhere so not really seen.
Thoughts?
On 70cm you can use a 9600 packet. I use it for winlink email when the storms come by and fuck shit up and also travel. Pretty fun, my internet sucks at times,
I'm running ax25-tools along with soundmodem software... I have tcp/ip working ( and loving it ) however is there an easy way with soundmodem to run a bbs.
I could run an old fashioned tcp/ip bbs however then others would have to know the ip address, etc.
I love it!!! How much cost to build cheap one and what is needed from hardwares..i think that is P2P but i want have and the ability to send data to all listeners like andflmsg app and i want to work it like a server for others to connect on me ex: 5pc to the central BTS like ISP..(air ISP internet access) but i want to have some faster speed 56k or more if is it possible.
Can be done an old 56k modem to communicate over the ham radio with only rj11 to audio Jack adapter with dual link ham radio baofeng?
I need the cheeper and best solution.
The 51tnc is good for that i needed?
Please give me solutions.
My regards
At 6:00, are the letters for "uptime" being sent one packet per letter or is the SSH protocol overhead making them appear that slow?
The TNC-pi will only run at 1200 baud. It should be possible to run 9600 using a soundmodem driver, however your radio will also need to be capable of this (a dedicated 9600 packet port, or audio taken directly from the discriminator).
Good start have you tired something like a Signalink and a soft modem? Then maybe faster.
I'm not entirely sure if this is legal (might constitute a "secret code") but you could secure it with Google Authenticator. The way it works is that your computer and your phone both generate time-dependant one-time-passwords. The 6-digit numeric code changes in sync every 30 seconds on the two devices. To log in, you have to enter a password and a code, and you can restrict each code to be usable only once.
so this is good for email and irc. you mentioned that encryption is not allowed. but why tho? I always thought the only states that didn't allow encryption were authoritarian, like cuba or iran.
Jim Stick Public transmissions using pubic frequencies are not allowed to be encrypted for various reasons. Now if you had a business frequency (Ie telephone carriers do encrypt, or a encrypted business two way radio system) then encryption is allowed to protect the assets of the business. However, at least in the US, all transmissions must be sent without encryption to protect the airwaves as Amateur radio is self-policeing. That way, someone can do a transmission with their callsign and people who can decode the afsk can tell who originated the transmission.
+T-LETonTECH +Jim Stick
I'm a little fuzzy on this. Since your callsign is unencrypted in the ax-25 headers, then SSH would be acceptable. The encapsulated part is just binary data, right?
Videotaping violating your amateur radio license and the law. That's a bold strategy.
Have you tried the data speeds over 9600 baud? I was thinking about a rf link between hsmm nodes just for ssh and file transfers.
I love your video I've thought about the idea of this. Glad to see it on here. Thanks!!!
Interesting, thanks for the video. I am about to order a Raspberry Pi and TNC-Pi for set up a tx-digi and igate. 73 M6UAV
Have you tried using two TNC-X/TNC-Pi's in the AX.25 TCPIP case? You are using a PK88 modem and a TNC-Pi in this video. However, I have seen lots of complaints about AX.25 ping failures between two TNC-X/TNC-Pi's. I have one TNC-X and one TNC-Pi, connecting to two Ubuntu Raspberry Pi's, respectively. When either side acts as the source side to issue a ping command, the KISS TNC's red LED lights up correctly, and the Baofeng radios light up in correct order (source side red, then destination side green), but the destination side simply fails to receive the packet (nothing shows up in axlisten -a, and there is no ping response). I tried to use soundmodem (software KISS TNC) to replace the TNC-X/TNC-Pi, and gdb into the software KISS TNC programs, then I figured out the ARP response or ping response (i.e., a response package from the TCP/IP protocol stack) comes back to the destination side too early when the destination side radio is still in the receiving mode (i.e., with green LED on). I tried to set the TXdelay to the maximal value allowed, on TNC-Pi using pitnc-setparams program the maximal value is 255, on TNC-X I just turn R13 clockwisely to the end. No luck to make the ping work. My guess is that I need to set TXdelay to be a larger value (e.g., 800), but TNC-Pi/TNC-X cannot do it. So I just wonder if you have been in the same shoes.
BTW, would you please describe your TNC-Pi settings? Is it possible that your radios have some digital features that are missing in Baofeng UV5R handsets, so the TNC-Pi works well?
I've figured out what's gone wrong in my case: the Baofeng radios. illruminations.com/2014/01/15/baofeng-packet-radio-adventures/ Steve Conklin, AI4QR's investigation shows that Baofeng radios cannot work with TinyTrak4 (similar to TNC-X, TNC-Pi) "because the software in the radio only turns on power to the audio amplifier when it wants to make a sound." To solve the problem, you have to implement hardware Carrier Detect or something equivalent as shown in larr-project.blogspot.com/2014/01/elegant-solution-for-carrier-detect-in.html
Where can you buy the TNC-Pi at for my Raspberry Pi?
From the team at tnc-x: tnc-x.com/TNCPi.htm - they have a 9600 baud version available now, too!
I think that not in all jurisdictions is against license conditions. Eventually, who cares. "I was just sending random data from my local /dev/urandom" and you're set.
Could you have used soundmodem (using the built in sound chip) instead of the dedicated hardware ?
could you please explain more how you activate your port and your TNC to comunicate,
I've also tried it but get no interaction, no pakets run over air... ??? I'm using an TNC 2400 using KISS- mode with these instructions:
www.tldp.org/HOWTO/AX25-HOWTO/x1194.html
Fun to show off and usable without the ssh overhead. Maybe be practical. I wonder if DHCP works =)
and where to get these wallpapers?
ping is ICMP, not TCP nor UDP
can u demonstrate this communication at 9600 baud?
From what I remember your not going to get "error free" above 2400baud (simplex?).
Turiyan Gold I'm sure psk on multiple lines within the channel band can. Digi audio has gone this way and works!
You should Deffinently do a video about that Raspberry pi and tnc-pi. I am very interested in one but can find nothing about it like how it works (good or bad) or how it is set up. or even in use as the raspberry pi as the client.
Great video!! Could you show us how to setup the RPi and TCP/IP? I would love to use a couple RPi's with Alinco DR-235TMKIII's (w/TNC installed). The DR-235T's can switch from 1200 to 9600 with a KISS command. --73 de N1OBU
lol is anything legal in the UK?
Steve, are we witnessing multi-packet streams here?
Very interesting! Could u measure the after deductions data rate over tcp/ip in ftp? I m interested in making xmpp massaging over ax25. Not necassarily on ham frequencies.
73
I badly want to implement this on our Titan rover (Titanrover.com). It's so difficult to find documentation on ax.25. We would have ham operators, and use a Linux computer on our rover running telnet. Since we have to communicate with our rover from a distance, this would be the perfect solution. I'm going to check out your site, but if you have config files or ANY documentation on how you set up your Linux machine, it would be so helpful. I already have a pi3, and tncPi2. Please share! ☺️ This is amazing.
Hi Richard - it's surprisingly easy. I thought I'd written a 'howto' but I now can't find it. When you configure an ax.25 interface under Linux the IP address is optional but once you do specify it - you're good to go. Something like 'kissattach /dev/ttyS0 portname 10.0.0.1" where (I think) portname is the device you've specified in /etc/ax25/axports. You will need to disable any auto-discovery services that will otherwise tie up the interface, though. It's been a while since I've done this but please do drop me an email (either google or via www.m0spn.co.uk). Good luck!
The Pi has no Sound in, you would need a USB sound device.
telnet would be faster - not secure though
More please
Now try and load a webpage ;)
+radiosification It's taken me a year but ... ruclips.net/video/utqSOfuVcMI/видео.html :)
I copied your desktop terminal colours 😅
can it do RUclips 😂
aarrgghh where does the fucking cracking come frome? please make a new video without.