Village People | Big Joel
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Village People and YMCA: An analysis and history of the impact of this campy band. Their music is both political and apolitical, seems to endorse gay rights and visibility, yet is read so often as cheesy fun.
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Fun fact - the native american from the Village people was an actual native american and went on to do loads of activism around native rights
Actually, he's half Puerto Rican.
I thought I knew everything about them. I guess not. But he's half puerto rico
FozzieatDetour BillNye He’s half of Puerto Rico?? Damn he must’ve gotten big!
Oh thank god, this makes me happy. And I looked him up and yeah, he was half Puerto Rican and half Native American
@@LuisCasanovaV still native American. Nobody is 100%, you dont have to be pure bred like a dog
What was explained to me as a middle schooler in the 70s was that the YMCA offered dorm rooms back then and hot meals. And a high proportion of the homeless youths sheltered there were young gay men and teens rejected by their parents .
So it was an experience a lot of gay men of that generation had in common.
I know that now, but I didn't know that as a middle-schooler/high-schooler in the 70s. If I recall correctly, they didn't even acknowledge being gay until the Village People mania went down, so it was speculated on, but not confirmed. I know I didn't know for sure, and I went to art school! The US Navy even contacted them to do a song for them, and provided video assistance, but decided not to use it when word came round they were gay.
Well, that's kinda half true. So, what you've got there is a bunch of young gay men staying at the YMCA. And, well... that's where a lot of other gay men are going to go to find young gay men. So, yes, that was an element of it, but that's NOT what the song is about.
Exactly. I commented on that earlier as well. It's a gay anthem without political overtones, it's simply telling a common narrative many gay men faced back then.
@@Magnulus76 being a gay anthem in the 70's is political itself lol
Not everyone knows the YMCA is a gay anthem. Ive blown multiple peoples minds with this knowledge, and they play it at Mormon things which is the funniest shit because theyre so obsessed with "traditional marriage" and yet they play YMCA at dances. It's hilarious.
I'm exmormon and I had no idea the song or group were gay! I remember every single church dance and event playing this song too 😂
We had it sung at our Catholic primary school lol It's a good song, no matter whose anthem it is, I guess.
Also, makes me laugh that Trump used it to play himself out at rallies in 2020. I mean, makes me sad, too, but for him to play a gay anthem at bigot rallies is somewhat ironic.
You: “Your not going to blow anybody’s mind by saying YMCA is Gay”
Me: Holy Crap the village people were gay? Man how sheltered was I?
I am literally the daughter of two gay people WHO MET AT A GYM and I didn't even know this song was gay
Your / you're / yore
All different words buddy
Excuse me, I think you dropped you're fedora?
How fucking dumb are you? Really?
@@Pablo123456x Ah yes, supplying very necessarily to the conversation at hand~
The YMCA served a shelter for young men, which means statistically those were mostly gay men. Knowing that it means the song YMCA is not really about how great the Y is for gay men, it's about telling homeless young gay men to find shelter at the Young Men's Christian Association. That messed me out when I found out
It's both.
It's not only telling everyone they should go to the Y, it's also telling gay men that there is both fun, community, and shelter there. It's a good place.
Actually, these songs were all gay anthems with enough plausible deniability built in so the population at large wouldn't pick up on the actual meaning and spurn the songs and group.
I'm glad you threw the Pet Shop Boys in there somewhere.
The film that they did in the 1980s really tried to make them heterosexual men. Also, in the 1980s, the phrase "San Francisco Democrats" was often used by Republicans to remind people that the party of Lincoln had been taken over by Christian fundamentalists.
I think A LOT of people don't know their music is gay. You may be overestimating the amount that know because of the people you know.
The fact that the village people are gay is a thing that has been referenced in an absolutely massive amount of pop culture since their debut. It’s such a common thing to joke about that it’s been considered kinda hokey for over 20 years. There’s even a Village People/gay club gag in Wayne’s World…2? I think it’s 2.
So nah, the people who DONT know The V Peeps is gay are definitely in the minority.
@@dildoniusPeople joke about it all the time, but how many people joke about it because they *know* they’re gay, as opposed to joking about it just because they “look gay”?
@@Necroskull388 The overwhelming majority of people who joke about it know they're gay. Near 100%. And usually if someone doesn't know they are, it's because they're too young to know them or have never seen what they look like before. Then as soon as they see what they look like, they immediate realize they're an EXTREMELY gay group.
This channel is so incredibly underrated.
Just wanna say, the song you're playing in the background c. 2 minutes in (Liebestraum by Franz Liszt) is my favorite song of all time so thanks for putting it in this excellent video essay
I didn't have any reason for making this comment. I'll quiet down and keep watching the video
As if it wasn't clear, the video features the famous Ramrod gay club pretty prominently juxtaposed with the Y. And as for Go West, the PSB then layered another meaning to the song by using Russian choruses and making it "go West from the Eastern bloc", something which would seem to lack a bit of nuance for their usual output (as if they just picked up that meaning for a bit of fun), but which makes for a great version, I love it. Cool video! I had never thought much about the VP.
this video made my gay heart happy, for what that's worth
I see what you're getting at here but I think you're setting up a wee bit of a false dichotomy that ends up muddying the waters. Just because something doesn't offer concrete answers or a cohesive message doesn't mean that work can't be political in some way. Sometimes a lack of explicit "answer" to a proposed theme can make it more potent, not less.
Also, there's the idea that structures being gay/political can be as if not more powerful than whatever the structures house. Gay in form, not in content is still gay, and in the time of the Village People, still very much political. Because at the end of the day even if YMCA wasn't a power ballad about the tragic reality of organizations run by homophobic religious people being one of the few places gay people could feasibly meet it's definitely not a song and video made by men attempting to mimic heterosexuality, ya feel? It's gay as hell, in aesthetic and in lyric, and it's fun. Arguably, that's a lot more potent a political message than something explicitly saying "we're not all tragic cases of mental illness, loneliness and despair. Our lives are full of joy and love. We are not the shadowy other." if only because its sure to spread s lot wider! Sure maybe it's opaque enough that Evangelical Aunt Betty will dance along to it at Jessica and Dean's wedding reception but the fact that it got there at all is not politically insignificant.
In some ways, I think an explicit message can be just as hollow as something confused -- see Macklemore's Same Love which is... saccharine at best. Both approaches can work and not work.
As for oppressionless utopias I just have to think of.thr new Black Panther film as an example of how such a setting (where colonialism never happened) can still be the context for a.deeply political message Not least in form/structure -- a black centered superhero movie in a time where that's novel enough to be a statement itself. And so we circle back
Hmm yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I did vaguely imply that the songs were less political or interesting because they were ambiguous and open-ended, and I don't agree with that at all. Thank you!
CheeseLoversUnited That's a very good analysis. I wonder though, if the political message was not diffused by the fact that the gestalt if the VP as much mocks the culture it evokes more than it celebrates it.
Of course, it also mocks hyper masculinity and heterosexual stereotypes as well, so it functions in different ways to different listeners, serving as sort of a musical Rorshach test.
CheeseLoversUnited I love cheeze, and I am straight, or eather hetero since saying straight implies that anything other than that is... whatever. My wife has wondered whether I am secretly gay since I am so uncompromising when it comes to supporting the right of gay people to be as they will, including the right to marriage and adoption. My wife is very religious. I have a very interesting life to say the least
Delivering the line “They were gay, they were buff, and they were there to have a good time” in your tone and cadence is hilarious to me for some reason
The "biker" in the band is not wearing biker gear; he is wearing leather and chains like gay men did in BDSM clubs in the late 60s and early 70s. That's also how Judas Priest adopted their similar "biker" look of their early days - lead singer Rob Halford is gay, and got the idea from those same clubs he would frequent.
I watched this video a few months ago and have been obsessed with the the village people since! Go West is something I listen to every day! Thank you making this!👍
Did you do a bunch of video essays before starting this channel or are you just really fast ?
Haha the day after I release an essay I start working on the next one. I don't have a backlog. But I've been considering moving my schedule to once every two weeks to improve the quality (and to do other things with my life)
Big Joel nooooooooooo!
+Martin Stennert yeeeeeees! Better quality and better mental health is great!
Excellent job. Bravo!
Big Joel you should take requests. Maybe for a donation.
I think my mom broke it to me that the whole band was a gay act. I must have been 11 or so and really enjoying the music. Always appreciated my mom telling me things as they are.
It's like what Yatzhee said:
It takes a lot of care to make something that's carefree
The bar they're dancing in front of at 4:36, the Ramrod, was a popular leather bar which later closed after a mass shooting by a homophobic cop in 1980.
I've recently been toying with this idea in my own beliefs of "Conversational Politics vs Utilitarian Politics". Things we discuss, things we outright acknowledge, and even things we argue about and are influenced by are conversational. Whereas, things that actually apply in our day to day life, the things we do or recognize on a daily basis are Utilitarian. A lot of times they overlap, but sometimes we're able to put aside our conversational politics for their more immediate utility.
This is exceptionally well made and you do a great job of explaining the full context of the politics of the time.
I would really like a more recent and in depth analysis of this band from you because it's one of my all time favorites and I know there's more to talk about with regards to them.
I think this is still my favourite Big Joel video.
Even in 1979, you had people like Anita Bryant being very vocal about being anti-gay. Even at that time, it was dangerous for a gay artist to come out of the closet. There were always rumors, but the artists neither confirmed or denied.
She was against gay teachers in California. She said they were out to "recuit" young people into the gay lifestyle.
That's why the song In The Navy, has the line, "We want you as a new recruit!
@@visaman That's a little known bit of history. Good bringing it up!
NYC gay piano bar player here. Fantastic video. Before covid I played to a lot of straight crowds coming to see the gays be gay, and I was happy to oblige. Interestingly enough YMCA was never once requested.
I have known this song since I was a kid. Before watching this video, I had no idea that YMCA was about being gay. They played this song all the time at the Y, I always kind of assumed that it was written for the Y as like a theme song.
Friendly reminder that that lesbian was none other than legendary trans woman Marsha P. Johnson
That is what I thought.
no, the lesbian was Stormé DeLarverie, Marsha P. Johnson was likely not even present at the riot according to Miss Major, a black trans woman who was undoubtedly present.
@@lvem c'mon, give us trans people something...
Chris Abbey trans people were and are central to lgbt liberation, i am not claiming otherwise, i am just tired of false stonewall narratives and i want Miss Major (a black trans woman) to get the credit she deserves.
marsha wasnt a lesbian
This video was incredible. ten out of ten, HENRY! If you were a professor, I would take any class you were teaching.
Having grown up in eastern europe - Go West had a very different ring to it! And of all songd we were convinced that's the one addressed to us, what else could it be!? :D And people largely don't understand lyrics and don't wish to know about the context of groups like the Village People. Brown Girl in The Ring by Boney M - you think people had a clue this has anything to do with black culture or that it concerned them?
I'm now particularly fascinated looking back and putting all these episodes in context. I'm ecstatic to realize how normalized flamboyancy and gayness was in russian pop culture in the 90's just to turn so homophobic in official propaganda later (like nothing ever happened, lol). I love seeing people loose it at wedding parties and rallies to YMCA, because to this day nobody knows ^___^
I don't think that the general audience in the 70s really understood that the Village People were gay (or supposed to be, I don't know for all the singers). And those who got it weren't exactly the one that would need "political information". "Normal people" in the 70s were incredibly naive if it came to homosexuality.
And I may be wrong but I wouldn't consider them a "political" group in a modern way. Weren't they just fabricated like Boney M or other groups? With a certain part of the market in mind? Sp it's more of an ironical thing to me.
Maybe I'm too young ;) but I remember discussions about sexuality from the early 80s about Annie Lennox and Cultur Club.
Can you imagine being in that world again..? 😞
i didn't realize the double entandre of ymca until i saw those videos with all the little plastic body builders
But thats the thing! The most genuinely rebellious and political thing they could have done was just,, be happy. be unbothered. being gay and happy about it was insane and that's why its genius. It wasn't a curse or a shame or a burden to carry they were just havin a good time. Of course, they had a deeper meaning to their songs but the upbeat nature of it was super purposeful and that's why I think they're so interesting.
Yes more of this!
I never knew that's what it stood for in the USA, in the UK there's an org called YMCA that runs hostels but the acronym is different, no gyms or anything either.
Every assembly in elementary school ended with this song which is so funny to think about considering I'm from the most Republican area in New York State.
I was expecting Little Joel when I clicked, I'm not disappointed
It is a little Joel, but not Little Joel!
Actually most old people don't know that YMCA is a gay anthem
Being from outside the USA, it has literally never in my life crossed my mind that this song could be about gay people xD I expected this about as much as if you had told me this was about space exploration!
It is a very New York song.
the fact that this is 2 yr old and i'm just seeing this now :(
Awesome video!!!
i danced to this song in kinder wyf
my dad is really good friends with the cowboy.. he hit on my dad but he got the hetero hint and now they’re buddies 😁
Your dad lucky to know him. I wish I did
Hi Big Joe! I'm a new subscriber and I've been enjoying so much your videos. I think your videos are very well made and really interesting but the titles you choose and the thumbnails usually don't translate that well your topic and don't catch the attention of new viewers. Your editing, sound and overall content is really good but I think you should take more time to consider different titles and thumbnails because by the quality of what you deliver I think you should have a lot more subscribers.
I lived my entire life until this second not realizing that YMCA was a gay song. I didn't even realize it was the village people.
I'd forgotten about the song "Go West".
that was awesome!
after hearing you recommend game grumps i have to know if you made this before or after watching the bloodborne playthrough (i could probably figure it out using release dates but i'm just gonna leave it ambiguous )
The YMCA isn't a homophobic organization at all, I grew up in a co-ed YMCA youth group as a teen in the early to mid 90's and my experiences there are the root of all my progressive political beliefs
I went to college with one of the Village People.
Wow I love this video. Truly
I had no idea when I was 12. Of course kids today...? P.s. I'm gay. And it was '89
"one that fosters a sense of community, gives poor people a place to go and is incredibly gay." Big Joel has had some good ones in his time but this may just be his best.
I really truly never realized this song was gay
Happy Pride Month!
Didn't Big Joel have another video on the Village People, with "in the navy?" Or am I thinking of someone else?
I love Joel videos the idea that the lyrics from The Village People are put together with some kind of political genius is so daft joels videos are both interesting and also complete nonsense
you seem like such a good person
I've heard that song so many times, but never realized the meaning of the song.
I'm wondering if this isn't a thing, with people that use english as their first language.
Wait, they weren't all gay?
i love doing that with my hands.
0_0 I thought it was an ad for the YMCA.
But why do their popular songs sound so similar?
Is that Bar Mitzfah in Hart House on the University of Toronto campus? Are you a Torontonian?
interesting video man
great ending
I find it odd that Trump played Village People music at his rallies.
Maybe he’s gay
Am I the only one here after they played the song at a Trump rally lol...
Where can I get that Village People documentary?
You should have more subs!!
Gay or straight....we live life once, screw religion n politics....Live life n appreciate it.
go west is by the village people?? i know it by pet shop boys.
Playing homage to the Village People, whose work was pretty fundamental in other gay artists being able to come out (though they didn't come out until after their star was fading).
They both did it. Both are awesome
This analysis needed Rudy Galindo.
Who's the hottest village person big Joel I need to know
Glenn Hughes, the leather guy. The original one, that is.
Felipe Rose , can't be beat He's great as a solo artist. Check out his Trail ofTears video.
was kind of hoping there would be some explanation as to the alt-rights pro-trump obsession around this song.
Good video, just feel it could've gone a bit deeper.
I had no idea ymca was about gay men.
I know wonder who is the straight?
wwwwwwwwait 'so you can finally just bro out with him?' is that? is that really how jews think? explicate pls
I guess the reason why Trump's staff used it for his rallies was to a) virtue signal and b) try to get the song associated with right-wing ideologies.
So, my parents were partying age back when this song was a hit. They did not know it was a gay anthem, or so they swear. (Tbf English isn't our native language, but still. Shouldn't the costumes have given it away??)
I only recently learnt this song was gay
YMCA is gay?
I'm 27 and it never occurred to me that this song was gay at all. The part at the beginning where it says everybody knew but didn't care really threw me lol. I also knew next to nothing about the Village People.
I always thought YMCA was just a song just about finding male friends and a safe home at the YMCA. Us men normally get along more easily with other men anyways.
Especially if the men are swimming naked.
Thanks now I will not ever listen to that song again...........
YMCA was a big hit in Japan back in the day, and nobody knew what the message was about.
As a gay man, I can say that give seventeen different meanings in one phrase is gay culture.
This video is too good to just sit at half a thousand views. Even though I feel like that's probably not all that the village people were about, it explains so much about how they are recognized.
Since it is rather specific I'm inclined to agree
@@aarter2913 brooooooo did you just agree with yourself??
@@raineamory388this is a year old and i have no idea what happened
66k views now
@@raineamory388 they might have been responding to someone else who deleted their comment
this is really interesting i never even realized ymca was about being gay
Same here. However I knew that one of the members was gay. I just didn't realize most of them were.
Only gay men would wear their kind of costumes.
As a gay man, I can totally understand the gay subtext when it especially comes from such flamboyant masculinity. The song YMCA sort of sounds like it can be describing a gay bathhouse!
Thing is, the song is fairly innocuous. The videos that accompany it are *incredibly* camp, and would be even if every member was straight. But even camp isn't inherently gay, pretty much everything from the time period was camp, and as the video points out, they relied heavily on double entendre and the fact that homoerotica is so hard to distinguish from the concept of Western masculinity.
priestpilot I don't know how old you are, but the song is from only like two years before I was born and even into my youth, the Y in a lot of places was where gay kids who were kicked out went because they had rooms and hot meals and it didn't take much money. I say a lot of places because the YMCA near me didn't offer room and board, but while it arguably could be describing a bathhouse, the more likely scenario is that it was describing what it said on the tin--a place where young gay men could find a place to stay and, ironically, a sense of community. At the *Y-M-C-A* though I don't know how fun it was to stay there.
_Young man, there's a place you can go_
_I said, young man, when you're short on your dough_
_You can stay there, and I'm sure you will find _
_Many ways to have a good time_
Fun fact: People in Europe often think the “Y” is actually an LGBT organization.
for real for real? also is it not one?
@@masterblaster5705 no, it’s just a “young men’s club” sure there might be some gays there, but it’s really just a place where men can hang out and talk to each other, do some games like billiards, sports, and network. Imagine an arcade before arcades were a thing.
@@masterblaster5705 the “C” stands for “Christian”. Usually LGBT+ and “C” don’t go together.. although, they claim to be totally secular nowadays. The YMCA I went to as a child for summer camp and after-school care was definitely religious as well. We sang a lot of “Jesus” songs and said Grace before every snack or meal. But this was also 20+ years ago.
If they're following the word of that guy who hung out with whores then they should be
@@masterblaster5705 not really. Although the song celebrates them as de-facto gathering places for gay men, that is clearly not the intention.
And out in more rural areas, where they arguably play a bigger role (like Central Mass where I grew up), they are pretty boring run-of-the-mill community centers.
Thank you for this wonderful piece on gay history!
I've been going through some of your videos and when I got to this one it hit me what I really like about them- you don't just go for low-hanging fruit. With a lot of media analysis channels it seems like the instinct is to go for whatever is popular and resonating at the moment, but it seems like you really do just talk about whatever you'd been thinking about and what is interesting to you, and it's a breath of fresh air. And yeah, going for low-hanging fruit pays dividends, but it's such a delight to be able to get insights based on just like, the random thoughts that insightful people are having without real ulterior motives?
Re: your kind of rushing the analysis in this video as other people mentioned, I feel like it might be worthwhile to revisit the village people at some point with a more rounded analysis, or maybe even include them in a broader discussion on a related topic if you were ever to cover it?
Anyway, I love you, never change! Or if you decide to change, change in a positive direction!
The YMCA was too often the place many gays went after their parents threw them out of their homes onto the streets. So there is a bittersweet subtext to this song.
The "Christian" aspect of YMCA also was overplayed in the video. The organization was never known for the kind of religion we associate with the term today. It was originally a place that immigrants to a city could go to stay while they looked for work. One step away from a homeless shelter. More of a mission to urban youth, and less of some kind of paragon of sanctity or moralism.
Not all of their records are campy and fruity like that. "New York City", "Five O'Clock In The Morning", and "Do You Want To Spend The Night" are very underrated records from them and it's more soul and avant garde/R&B ish, rather than their campy disco anthems. As a gay black man I like the Village People.
Good point. I had considered going through the entire village people discography, and I still just might do that at some point, but for now, I wanted to focus on their commercial successes.
San Francisco is one of my favorites. They have a lot of deep disco tracks as well but no one knows about that and they are not as culturally relevant to non-disco people..
As a straight white male I liked your comment
@@SoundBlackRecordingsI agree - Get Away Holiday is a wonderful track. It should have been released after 'In the Navy', with perhaps 'Ups and Downs' as a b-side(if you remember them). 'Go West' although a fine record, was too different, too soon. They are a fascinating band, for a lot of reasons.
Short answer: because they slap.
As someone who sometimes works in a YMCA summer camp, I can confirm that it is still very, very gay. Like, a good half of our counselors are gay. More are gay than are religious. They’re currently trying to better trans kid’s experiences, it’s a work in progress, but they’re really trying. It’s great.
Loads of people just don't get subtext. Hell, some people barely listen to song lyrics at all. In 1996 a song called 'You're Gorgeous' by Babybird got to no 3 in the charts here in the UK. It has a big anthemic chorus which goes "You're gorgeous, I'd do anything for you..." and loads of people think its really romantic and it's still frequently played at weddings. The thing is, its a deliberately dark, horrible song, told from the point of view of a woman whose abusive boyfriend is bullying her into posing for porn magazines. The lyrics to the verses make the meaning really clear, and aren't hard to make out, plus the songwriter has repeatedly stated what it was about in interviews as he meant it as a critique of misogyny, but many people are just oblivious. They seem to blank the verses out completely and assume its just a love song... or pretend its just a love song because that's what they want it to be.
The Village People are the more positive flipside of this coin- a family disco staple about cruising for gay sex in homeless shelters.
It's a common misconception that all the members were gay. Only two of the village people were actually gay, despite the large number of lineup changes over the years. They all just played very gay roles because that's how they were marketed.
oh whoops haha, did I say all the members were gay. Yeah, I think I did.
The most popular line up of Village People (1977) was: Victor Willis (lead singer), Felipe Rose, Randy Jones, David Hodo, Glenn Hughes (R.I.P.) and Alex Briley. All of them are gay except Victor.
@@LuisCasanovaV David wasn't and Alex never said
@Khashon Haselrig Victor Willis denies it vehemently. Other sources also say he was not. (Read 'And Party Everyday: The Inside Story of Casablanca Records' by Larry Harris). On a side note, he also wrote the lyrics for the major hits and says that he didn't intend those lyrics to have a gay undertone, which is hard to believe.