Can Mathematics Explain Biology? | Episode 2208 | Closer To Truth
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- Опубликовано: 17 дек 2023
- If life is a vast space of possibilities, then mathematics can engage with biology. Statistics analyze biological data, and mathematical models improve biological theories and reveal hidden commonalties. But could the mathematics of biology touch fundamental realities?
Featuring interviews with Leon Glass, Martin Nowak, Geoffrey West, Paul Davies, and Robbert Dijkgraaf.
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Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
RLK is such a treasure. He doesn’t shy away from the hard questions we all think about but don’t often discuss.
Math provides a description not an explanation. Is describing something an explanation? Methinks not.
Math is first logical thinking and then calculation. Example: Apes have a baculum in their penis/urethra, humans don't. Why?
Logical answer - Because they wore too narrow jeans before, during and after the evolution and the baculum atrophied.
Math doesnt even provide a description. Math is the increasing sophistication of logic applied to the quantitative realm. Every equality in math is deductible implicitly from the definitions. So actually math is the ultimate art of truism. It is useful indeed but not because it adds very much per se but because we are too dumb to deduce everything every single time, we save sophisticated logic (ultimately autoevident) equalities (that one of our smartest humans gets to deduce), call them theorems and use them in the future accordingly.
Absolute fact....math provides description not an explanation..... Math is logic which works inside human brain and biology is existential wisdom which does not know the word logic.
Exactly, topography and newton showed is this. Everyone can test for themselves. Take a ruler grant deterministic value on your desktop and push the infinite sums of approximating complexity to each end.
Tools of approximation used on this paradoxical reality rely heavily on our human dashboard.
We borrowed the ancient chaldean evolutionary primordial soup radicalized environment dictated by extreme physical lawisms prescriptions structuralism in 1900s is wrong.
It has value and use in judging books by the cover outside in but its limited and wrong it gets in the way of following the evidence where it leads
Absolutely top shelf CTT!
I wish one day this very same question can be asked of the social sciences (predicting human behaviours with mathematical models).
I love models... except the gold diggers.
Thanks!
thank you !
Not entirely, but it is the most important tool for modeling neural processes.
Marvellous
You know it is a great video when there are a lot of "wait, go back?" moments! Does math drive biology, not just describe or help to reveal it? That is quite a question to ponder. Not just ponder. Perhaps one day design experiments to test. How in the world would you test that? Anyway, great video!!
Since Nature exhibits periodicities, our mathematics is very useful in modeling it's activities. Pythagoras said that the Cosmos itself shows us the Music of the Spheres.
"A mathematician is like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there."
Charles Darwin
Biologist (1809-1882)
Awesome and true!
The correct way to create adjuvant mathematic techniques that further describe biological models is to NEVER EVER stray from true reality. Mathematicians of "yesterday" and today create too often blind theoretical models that are far away from the true REALITY.
So, in the direction of the subject of this Robert's new material, the correct method in any domain of human logic usage is to first truly and fundamentally understand the real processes taking place in biological organisms and ONLY after that to create a pure theoretical model of any kind.
The vast majority of the so-called "scientists" ( of "yesterday and today" ) works completely in reverse, and in doing so, almost completely mangles the correct understanding of the REAL DYNAMIC process of the Universe, in which the biological organism is fully integrated.
For example, Paul Davies tries to give a theoretical description of the biological organism, etc without FIRSTLY UNDERSTANDING correctly "why".
Etc.
Without understanding correctly 'a priory' the fundamental "WHY", you can't progress correctly and further in science, and you just add useless and erroneous epicycles on top of other useless and erroneous epicycles ( which is the sad situation of "yesterday and today" so-called "science" ).
It has been said that mathematics and nature are one and the same.
Whilst both essentially concern relative magnitude and rates of change, nature is subject to constraints that form in the dynamic, that result in specific outcomes, and mathematics merely models that.
The Principle of Least Action is fundamental in nature.
Yea, true. If there wasn't nature(physics), there would be no mathematics. Mathematics mimics nature, that's if you want to understand her.
Great episode!
Is this the new AI created video? ...very cool
1:23 I think the answer might lie somewhere in the logical structure of:
If A, then B;
If B, then C;
Therefore;
If A, then C.
Mathematics are the foundation of physics.
Chemistry is Physics in action.
Biology is Chemistry taken to its logical conclusion of molecules reproducing themselves.
Therefore; Mathematics are fundamental to Biology, and thus to the self-reproduction of molecules.
But I'm also a pretty simple person...lol
Go Bluejays!
What if truth is one?
I like that explanation. I have a similar argumentative structure. Via set logic.
A is a set that has a subset B
B is a set (subset of A) that has a subset C
C is a set (subset of B, which is a subset of A) that has a subset D
D existing in C existing in B existing in A as subsets. D is contained in A therefore D explained/accounted for by A.
Mathematics is the logical language that gives way to the subset of physics
Physics is the set fundamentals that give way to the subset of chemistry
Chemistry is the set of fundamentals that give way to the subset of biology/life
Therefore since all succeeding sets are subsets of the set of mathematics, mathematics explains biology, not just by approximation, but precisely.
CTT, the last few videos have had audio issues where some dialogue is blocked out.
Absolutely tp notch. Thank you Dr. Kuhn. Jaques Monod would disagree by saying that while life does not violate any Physics laws, it trascends them by being a random event at its core, and trherefore a an event that cannot be predicted by any math or physics laws. It is a different matter if Math can descrivbe some aspects of life.. Life is the "fixing" of serendipity in an ohterwise mechanistic random ally cosmos.
We humans seem to underestimate the potential for life, which really doesn't make sense if one looks around oneself and sees all that is around us.
I guess you could have asked how they define mathematics first:
Here is the definition by ChatGPT:
“Mathematics is indeed a conceptual framework that explores relationships and structures, often abstract in nature. While it may not depend on physical space and time, its applications frequently find relevance in describing aspects of the world around us”
Math is nothing but interplay of concepts that we consciously create and assume and look for it. Math is created by us for survival and search 🔍 meaning of life. Aliens may have entirely different kind of math.
The language that we use to describe mathematics itself is part of life.
No, mathematics shows us that knowledge can be condensed into symbols. Mathematics is a lower kind of symbolism that use logic. Higher kind of symbolism use intuition but is not so obvious to most, since people aren't that intuitive.
Very unusual to meet a fellow with such wisdom. Keep on sailing the seven seas my not so distant relative. @@freeroommalmo2792 ♥
Nature of Personal Identity is very vast than all understand, In true Reality there is only collective Identity, Know disconnection from truth & Laws, When Identity get Narrow & cause of all Suffering, Humanity need Solution to Ignorance & desires creating out of fear,
Mathematics do not explain anything; they haven't the need, nor the apparatus. Only people explain-anything.
I kind of agree... but... "Only intelligent systems explain anything".
😂😂😂 profound
I'm getting lost words at 10:02-10:15 Can u fix the audio?
Who says that mathematics and biology are separate fields in the absolute sense?
Biology is mathematical in structure and not in function. Biological function is connected with consciousness in the deepest fundamental level.
Many functions don't need to be conscious, like breathing and digesting.
Your Quest is over Robert! The Ultimate Truth About Life!
Life is a circle, with no beginning or end.
Life gives existence to all that exists.
Life is real, life is true, life good, life is right.
Man is the paragon of life.
Man is life incarnate.
Man is Eternal Life.
Love Life!
Good day, good sir.
biology seems to be perfectly explained by mathematics, at least in congruous and not overly exaggerated chaotic examples...
since reality also seems to abide to mathematical structures and we're part of it (as sentient biological systems within this reality) then mathematics must also constitute biological systems regardless of their overwhelming complexity 🤔...
Before attempting to derive mathematical model of life function, we must:
1) define LIFE purpose relevantly,
2) define DIGIT as unique type of particles whose interactions inside our mind CORRESPOND to identical interactions inside the GEOLETS (unique for each being) inside the earth that composed our bodies, traceable due to identify of the LAWS OF MOTION for both interactions, viz. the 4 basic rules (+ ÷ - ×) of arithmetic.
This MIND ~ GEOLET correspondence is then associable with resultant food DIGESTION ~ GROWTH of and on PLANTS correspondence, to trace the plant from which each being receives the air it inhales as result of interactions inside its own GEOLET, and to which plant it should target the air it exhales to sustain its life function permanently.
This is possible because the above mentioned 2 correspondences substitute the Bohr's correspondence principle, which hss no relevance whatsoever to particles that compose our bodies, but only to particles (of periodic table and standard model) that derive the properties of minerals, the excreta of plants.
The attempt to derive THE THEORY OF EVERYTHING without associating particles to growth of and on PLANTS, the only entity in the entire known universe that delivers and sustains 100% of all life in it, is identical with attempting to derive LIFE as a function of excreta (CO2, urine and stool).
This reverse logic (attempting to derive function from its EFFECTS instead of its CAUSES) of TEOS (The Experimental and Observational Science) is most clearly visible in the fact that doctors analyze urine, stool and blood samples to diagnose the causes of any disease.
Instead the above 2 correspondences enable assuming existence of 3 unique types of particles that compose parts of plants (leaf as definer of FORCE, flower as definer of POWER and FRUITS as definer of STRENGTH) as linkers of the interactions of every plant with other plants, animals and humans, accordingly.
This model of particle interactions provides the formula for growth of and on PLANTS as functions of particle interactions inside and, accordingly, among GEOLETS that determine individual lives of beings and the interactions among them, accordingly, steerable either as nature has designed (with evil ~ predation, disasters, diseases ~ which include all violence ~ and death) as it exists at present or the way we want it to be, by rectifying the errors in GEOLETS to PREVENT all evil.
CHOICE IS OURS, whether we want to continue the FATALISTICALLY SLAVISH destructive life through cotinuing to follow CHAOCRACY with TEOS (that serves, and sustains itself mainly by, WEAPONS MANUFACTURE) or start sustainable eternal life through perpetuating GEOCRACY after rectifying the errors in GEOLETS.
Please look at the Correlates of War Project, Jeff Carter and Scott Wolford, Penn State.
I thought you would talk with Michael Barnsley about this
Thanks for sharing just where you are in discovery. I am surprised you didn’t include Michael Levin.
More epicycles… not closer to truth.
Everyone is asking questions and talk about their wishes and hopes that someone will answer those, is there even one thing that we know for fact?
Life is inevitable in the universe, life drives the evolution of the universe (not the other way around- like the materialists would say). It would make sense that as systems of the universe evolve and become more complex that they eventually "take on a life of their own" (so to speak). As for math, Mathematics is a system we created to describe, define and measure phenomena. Biology is phenomena, so yes it can. Will it give us the secret of life and the universe somehow (through, magic? I guess, not sure how else it would happen), no- it will measure and describe phenomena (like it always does).
Of course, everything is maths!
It's a pretty profound thought that math can at least claim to explain the origin our our universe, the end of the universe, the origin of matter, and the ridiculous odds of winning the lottery--but it can't explain a cucumber. It's why most math/physicist nerds seem to just brush off live as a weird, unpleasant, anomaly.
Math can't explain biology, because every form is unique, preventing true mathematization. This understanding is explained in depth in "The Implications of Compression and Incompressibility" at Shabda Journal.
It absolutely can, just because something is unique does not mean it cannot be accounted for. There exists in mathematics expressions and probabilities (frequency by uniqueness) that account for this. IE: ax^2+bx+c represents any and all parabolas, and there are presumably an uncountable amount of unique parabolas, but all are accounted for by mathematics in a single algebraic expression.
Can mathematics explain 'Closer to truth'?
Math Impossible show up closer of true this vídeo are always lack an emperism verification. Always wortheless Science. Bizarre and boring.
_Mathematics can’t explain anything_ _In case you encounter mathematics explaining something, you’re being bamboozled._
in second semester Biology
the Math Prof defined
the Cow as a Point Symmetrical Mass
I stopped listening to Mathematicians
Point Symmetrical hyper Smarts
Why the problem did life come about by chance. There is no chance everything is fixed by causation. Life was a cert after the big bang.
Mathematics is not a field of Science - it's part of the Arts Faculty like finger painting, acting and sculpture.
Mathematicians can't even explain Mathematics - why would they bother with a field such as Biology which is a scientific discipline many orders of magnitude more complex?
If nature's optimal growth curve is sigmoidal then why shouldn't sustainable economic growth be also with a flattening of inflation and gdp after a period of growth rather than being like a tumor of limitless growth that capitalists aim for?
Life or consciousness is not emergent rather it is an intrinsic part of the eternal foundation which is historically referred to as God of the universe (or existence). The human mind will most of the times try to assign figures to whatever it encounters. That is part of its mold of comprehension.
These man made languages or prescriptions we impose relies heavily on the human dashboard and its pardolia of mind. Correlations we make. Symmetry we observe or build concesus of but under 1900s structuralism this is no longer the case. Its alot of anti realism granted realism for example
But the Word/ code / info can be more detailed and precise when strengthened by measured value but there values granted simplicity and unification obviously require concesus that has become very currupted because of the 18 & 1900s structural complexity we ignored or told ourselves little lies about around us.
Chaldean model we mapped is obviously wrong. It has value and use but now its getting in our way of following the evidence where it leads as we continue to run into predetermined theory of everything evolution that wants to change evidence to fit .
God like properties for mathematics how predictable
nah -- too nuch of a stretch
❤posh
Anyhoo do it to the real s ground ice, was that a threat, get past my Dalmatian/$taffy/rottie/bulldog/Pitbull/dingo/spot
Is this game just a way of generating revenue ?
Just take a couple of random ideas and construct a question.
Do baby ants go to school ?
True ants skip school.
Jeffrey West describes scaling's impact on networks, metabolic rates and "why you stop growing" (13:49). Let's take scaling in the opposite direction, factoring in cube root reduction (halving the sides of a cube reduces mass & volume by an eighth). Approaching subatomic scales, we'd expect matter to be increasingly relieved of its classical (Newtonian) properties, to ultimately reveal primal causation. Hence my interest in applying Peircean semiotic theory, in the context of association, to the Feynman diagrams. Might association be primal?
The limitation with mathematics is that it is descriptive. "My hand has five fingers" is a meaning, not a thing, "fiveness" is not an object in its own right. Mathematics requires an observer to do the counting (attribute meaning), & it requires objects to be counted or weighed. Hence why I suggest association as primal - that which exists prior to the counter and the counted.
Math -> Physics -> Chemistry -> Biology -> Sociology. So yes, math explains biology, but biology does not explain math. You can only go one way in the chain.
Great chain.
Math is only a mimic of nature(physics), however. Really, Metaphysics place is first on the list. Arithmetics comprehends the Principles, which metaphysics deals with.
Of course, this gang today that hijacked science won't inform you of this.
Obviously it can . And it will . One day .
Mathematics is the root of everything . Maths may well be god
I guess this buries the proposition that biology is grounded on moral theory. I see no moral or ethical design in mathematics.
Can mathematics explain biology?
Mathematics, iconography, symbology, models, theories - all such methods have truly only one reason: to mimic that which is. If there be accuracy, harmony may be had, thus assimilation, therefore there is no explanation but a unity, or union, with That, which is.
Do you know what 'explaination' entails? The tree or the seed - which came first?
You can argue evolution, but that doesn't explain much at, but a prosession. Math deals with the transitory, not the Principles - arithmetics comprehends and deals with Principles.
Regardless - an explanation math can not, in the proper sense of the term, that is. Most certainly help to understand phenomena, for sure.
Nop. A statistical model is a depiction a cartoon of reality, with many assumptions under certain conditions, in a closed environment. So math can’t explain biology. Instead biologist use math to model, to depict certain isolated aspects of biology. Biology is much much complex than physics and chemistry, that’s why there are such successful models in physics but not in biology.
You may not have to believe in God but you had better understand the math of God.
Iterate appropriately!!!
It is all known! But only from the beginning.
Maybe mathematics can explain biology, but there is something that mathematics cannot resolve or explain is how intelligence, human being Soul, spirit, consciousness appearing and how It's working !!! 👑🏹🪁