5 reasons why General Aviation in the UK is dying... | Mr MPW
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- Опубликовано: 9 мар 2020
- GENERAL AVIATION IS IN DECLINE IN THE UK - BUT WHY?
As part of my journey to getting back into the air again; I've started to look at the options for revalidating my Pilot's Licenses and getting myself current and competent again.
There has been a 'running theme' though, that has become increasingly evident over the last few months as I've started to engage with the aviation community again... There's an underlying sentiment that General Aviation in the UK is dying and there's a lack of 'fresh blood' entering the industry.
Why is this happening?
Is there any way we can help turn this around and get more people, especially from a younger demographic to begin their aviation journeys?
After some reflection, here are the top 5 reasons why I think GA in the UK is dying and some of the steps we could take as a community, to try and turn it around...
Please feel free to rate the video and leave any comments or questions below...
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Blue skies,
Matt
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It's getting too expensive, and yes, we're killing off our airfields.
Those were two of my big ones... Costing more and more to go and fly ageing aircraft just doesn't sit well with the 'next generation' either and it's they who we need to encourage to join and get involved.
@@MrMPWworking in maintenance site of GA, and to be honest with you I need to stop doing it because of money. Easa not helping at all, creating unnecessary regulation etc. And cost of doing all licences is so huge. Is so sad because I love working with aircraft 😭
It’s simple. They don’t want to peasants to have the opportunity to have personal transport let alone aircraft unfortunately. All under the guise of saving the planet from the literal gas of life
Nice points, I like the systems in the USA. A lot of the airfields are open 24 hours with Pilot controlled lighting, No PPR required, hire cars at the airport, no landing fees etc.
Really interesting video, lots of things here I never really thought about but are true, flying in the RAF in a modern Grob Tutor, but doing my PPL in a 50 year old C150 and paying £150 an hour. From the training perspective I find there are a lot of older instructors that are difficult for younger pilots to connect with, there are some younger and more friendly instructors but its hard to come by.
One thing I cant quite get my head around is hiring a PA28 from a flying school is £144 p/hr, buying a 1/10 share in a PA28 is £3K, plus £130 a month, plus £130 an hour. If I were to fly 4hrs a month that would be £650 with a share, or £576 hiring with no liability for annual repairs etc. Is there something I'm missing?! Where is the cost saving!
Probably biggest reason , that most club plane are very tired, also if you want to take plane all day, then most club ask for a min of
3 hrs flying payment, even if air show or fly in is only 1hr total, also if you join a good group, can end up fly a fast retractable plane,
which is quite nice, recommend your pair up with another pilot, who you get on with and will half your flying cost also go to some far off airfield without breaking the bank
What your missing is when renting you realy can not go anywhere just do that 300$ burger and local airstrips, To go any distance & spend a few nights on a trip you have to pay 3 hours rental fee even if you do not fly that day so when you fly 500 miles to visit relatives or take a vacation your paying that rental fee every day it adds up...
Newer micro lights are much cheaper to run, although they seat only 2 people, fuel prices are low and they can be maintained by the owner.
I’m currently learning to fly at Gamston and fortunately it’s only 10 minutes down the road from me. I’d never considered that the cost of commuting could be such a detractor for potential new pilots, and it certainly gives me a new appreciation for my situation.
Hi Matt, brilliant presentation of an actual concern, in France too GA teaching and facilities would also need a thorough update !! Thanks for raising the issue and happy landings.
Thank goodness, I live in Coulsdon, less than two miles from Kenley Aerodome, Redhill Aerodome and less than 6 miles from Biggin Hill aerodome!
Nice I’m training at redhill
First video im seeing of your and Im hooked, everything you’ve said resonated with me. I currently fly at Stapleford flight center and previously worked in corporate aviation in RSA and you have nailed it.
You touched on the EASA issue: leaving EASA was Brexit madness at its worse.
PPL pilots in the UK can no longer fly non G reg aeroplanes in the European Union and vice a versa: freedom and opportunities lost.
The big problem with the EASA license is whether non-type-certified aircraft would count towards log-able hours. I spent 10 years in South Africa, 4 of which were as Chief Flying Instructor of the largest flight school in Durban, and we moved primarily onto Sling Aircraft which were full glass cockpit. The ICAO license allowed NTCA training. They were incredibly reliable, as you would expect from 3 or 4 year old aircraft. Our additional fleet of type certified aircraft were at least 20 years old. The problem with general aviation seems to be accountability. If you allow training to move away from purely type certified aircraft, who is liable when they go down? I would say the solution is to find aircraft insurance companies willing to embrace the future of NTCA.
One of the main reasons for the decline in general aviation is that it now costs between 3and 4 pounds a minute to fly the average single engined aircraft. There are a lot of other activities that people can engage in at much lower cost. Not to mention the staggering bureaucracy that we have to suffer whilst spending all this money.
Great video, Sir. All very true points. Subscribed! I had a handful of lessons in 2000-2002, then had to stop due to cost. That was about £90p/h for a C152. Now restarted my journey and it’s £190 for a PA38. Same old school aircraft, double the price. Geared my school GCSEs and A Levels way back when to be a commercial pilot, and to give up because of the expense was heartbreaking. Keep doing what you’re doing 👊🏻🤓
Same applies to gliding to a great extent. I think a lot of the clubs in Britain forget people do it for fun. When that part of the equation disappears so do the members.
I’m currently 15 and working towards my PPL with Air Midwest at Halfpenny Green airfield just west of Wolverhampton. I absolutely love flying and it is a true passion of mine, I am very lucky to have parents who love that I’m living my dreams and put up with my aviation passion. In the future I hope that I can undergo a flight Instructor course and teach at my current flying school, beyond that I wish to undergo my ATPL and travel the world flying the newest and best airliners.
Thank you for your videos on general aviation, the industry definitely needs you to raise awareness for investment and interest from new and young people, thanks for everything you do.
How's it going? I'm about 5 hours from my PPL(M), buying a CT2K end of year.
I'm in the US, interested in getting my PPL, and it's very interesting to see what could happen to us. Thanks for this video!!
I flew at panshanger. Now it’s not there any more. 😢
An excellent list of ideas. Back in the 80s Cessna's etc. where the height of technology. They were equally to the cars of the day. As you say, today, they are so last century. Fun to fly if you want the vintage experience.
I'm ex Air Force too. First solo'ed in a glider at 16, in a wood and canvas glider. I went from servicing aircraft to designing them.
I've flown vintage, and I've flown a Cirus. Wow, what a change. Very 21st century. As you mentioned, this is what people will want to fly.
Love this video. Really spoke to me! As a kid always wanted to me a pilot, but never got the opportunities that some of my friends had with them being fully qualified commercial pilots. The Closest airfield to me was over an hour away and money was a big issue grown up in my family.
Still now at nearly 30 I’m finding it hard to be able to pull funds together to learn to fly. Huge issue like you said is cost and then the state of some aircraft
Have you considered PPL(M) slightly cheaper. But still expensive 😅
thank you for this video its like ive been understood. im hoping to get my LAPL or PPL at sherburn aero club next year theres just so many thing to think about because when you talk about the LAPL all you really think about are the limitations and when you talk about the PPL you think about how much money it will cost and if its worth it.
The point about old aircraft feels so spot on to me. As someone exploring PPL options, the idea of flying a 50 year old Cessna that looks and smells like my grandparents house when I was a child, is deeply unappealing. Cirrus is tempting but then we get to the price issue. Im also wondering about holding off until the review of UK aviation is completed and we no doubt see new laws governing the end of VOR (and presumably DME) and GPS reigns. I love the WW2 history and enjoy airshows and old planes. But like you said re cars, it's the same thing - as a consumer I want new, shiny, safe, up to date tech when learning something new.
Microlights like C42 or CT2K? Whole craft Parachutes included! CT has Wider cockpit than a Cessna.
For most, including myself, going for a PPL is just too expensive due to the travel and the cost per hour. After coming across some videos of gliding I was hooked and still continue 5yrs later. Fortunately, there is a route from gliding to get a PPL. A quick comparison between gliding and powered, for me gliding is more sporty like a track day and powered is like a touring car going from A to B.
The path to PPL from gliding is (in the UK at the time of writing):
Solo - SPL - SPL w/TMG - PPL (TMG) - PPL (SEP)
Just found your channel, as an ex RAF chap, it's interesting to hear your story. I work a lot with the rotary world and working through your catalogue of content.
Just came across your channel. I first flew in the backseat of a T Mk10 Chipmunk in 1987 at RAF Woodvale but only took a trial flight when I lived in Wyoming a decade later. It wasn't until I returned to Wyoming in 1998 did I fly 36 hours, primarily in a Cessna 172. Came back to Liverpool and didn't continue flying (lessons) and only restarted a couple of years ago. I have a few points to make about your video.
1. The ground school exams are ridiculous. They used to be a selection of 16 questions from a question bank of 120 questions from the Pooleys books - which I thought was too easy. But, early 2021, then changed the system and now you have to study all the books, back to front. That, I don't mind because as an aerospace engineering graduate, I quite enjoyed re-learning all those topics. *However*, the exam questions seem to be designed to catch you out instead of testing your knowledge. Some answers are so vague, it's impossible to differentiate between one and the other. I failed 2 out of 9 exams but passed both the second time around. However, why I was so annoyed was because one question (in my Ops exam) was an ATPL-level question. When I complained to the CAA, they agreed that question shouldn't have been there but "it didn't change the result". So, the PPL ground school exams have gone from one extreme (i.e., simple memorising the question bank, which I personally disagreed with) to the other extreme (having to study all the books).
2. I totally agree with VR. I have XPLANE 11.5 with an Oculus Rift S VR headset (although the Pimax Crystal is the one you should aspire to getting), ORBX GB North, Central and South as well as all the UK airports and airfields. The *best* yoke, throttle quadrant and rudder pedals are from Honeycomb although as of autumn 2023, the Charlie pedals haven't been released yet (so I use my Thrustmaster TPR pedals). Anyway, flying out of Liverpool John Lennon Airport in VR is *absolutely* beautiful. I haven't started using VATSIM yet but I hear nothing but positive reviews about it. It's a system where you talk to real people in ATC so you can practise your RT (radio telecommunications), which for some reason in the UK, I can't do properly.
BTW, Sleap is interesting because the information box gives a "right hand circuit" when it's actually a left hand circuit.
Thanks for the video. Although I wasn't in the air force or navy, it's interesting to see someone who returned to GA from professional aviation so I've given you a follow.
Very interesting video Matt. First of all, thanks for adopting me into your family recently on chat regarding my pfco/drone career and advice given. This topic of obtaining your ppl is very close to my heart as it is something I’m keen on doing. I used to live in Shropshire so it was nice to hear of a place that is not too far away.
Definitely will be following you closely on this topic. Thanks and take care. ✈️😊👍George.
Hey George! :)
Great to have you on-board and if there's anything else we can do, please give us a shout...
Where are you now? Yeah - Sleap has always been a great facility and the club seems to be doing well whenever I get chance to pop in. Going to have lots of content coming on learning to fly, particularly using the simulator in the coming weeks and months... So might just be enough to whet your appetite for getting into the air! :)
Matt
Mr MPW thanks very much Matt. I live in Westhoughton between Wigan and Bolton. The club sounds interesting and would love to hear more.
Really looking forward to your up coming video adventures getting up in the air. Appreciate you getting in touch Matt. Due to the outbreak my working time has now been reduced to 3 days a week. So now have lots of time to either fly for fun, commercially and to learn new skills. Hope to hear from you soon and if you like you can contact me on messenger on Facebook. Cheers buddy and stay safe. 😊👍✈️
Mr MPW hope you are well and looking after yourselves. Took up your offer and booked two training courses with you. My Pfco upgrade to the GVC and my colleague who is new to this exciting career opportunities. Thanks again and best wishes. Fly safe 👍❤️✈️😊
Hey Matt, good video and some genuine issues. Only just found it but the points are sadly remaining valid. I am also an ex-service QFI, now turned atpl and FI (separately). I find the whole system confusing and awkward. I have just renewed my SEP post COVID and even that was a challenge! There are some incredible opportunities now to completely refresh the system and hopefully the CAA take the chance to do so. I can highly recommend my local club (Turweston) they are welcoming with good facilities, but I recognise they are rare. I would love to get back into the FI side of things but the cost even to keep a valid license is significant before hire costs etc... keep up the good fight and good luck with the exams, they are a bugger but good online stuff to learn from these days!
Great video. I particularly like the point on training. I’ve spent hours on flight sims, Vatsim, RUclips etc etc just to get up to speed BEFORE doing it for real. Wouldn’t it be great if some of that actually count for real. Instrument training for example could be virtual
Hi Matt, all good comments and points. As someone who gained their flying experience in Canada and recently relocated back home to the UK I See a lot of differences between the 2 countries. The big killer, on both sides of the pond , is the costs involved for sure. Even those that get their licence, quite a lot let it lapse - why? because they don`t see the "big" picture- the costs of keeping that licence current, medicals etc, they all add up. If you only fly the minimum number of hours (because money is short or the weather is against you when you are free to fly) it makes you a rusty (and dangerous?) pilot and there is so much more in life to do with that money and people drift away to other hobbies, flight sim being a favourite amongst many I have spoken with. Most of the people I met whilst training were on the road to a career - Airline Pilot etc. others started off and many never completed the course - money, weather, life in general - a lot of factors get in the way. One fella told me he wanted to fly so eventually he could fly a warbird - a dream perhaps but for him it was a goal. Nowadays he flies a Spitfire albeit in virtual reality in a flight sim and gets just as much as a buzz knowing its not costing him a fortune! Life is what happens when you`re busy making other plans - John Lennon
I’m in the midlands and I’m looking at getting my PPL. would you recommend any schools in particular? Thanks.
So would you not recommend getting into flying now?
I’ve been thinking about getting a PPL. Where is the most common place to go abroad? Thanks ! Also I’m from the midlands too. (East Midlands) Any tips for where to go around here?
I got my PPL, IMC and Night at Ipswich Airport. It was no more than a walk away for me. It's now a housing estate. Suffolk council carefully engineered its collapse. The airport building was/is(its a listed building) quite large with many rooms mostly unoccupied. The council spent large amounts of money installing burglar alarms and fire sensors in ALL the rooms. It then went on to spend nearly £100,000 on the small café uprating it well beyond all requirements. This was back in the late 80's to early 90's. This produced a self fulfilling prophesy of an 'uneconomic facility'. This became a win win situation for the council, money for the site plus a very much larger on going revenue stream from the council tax. In your enthusiasm for aviation you are overlooking the requirements of those that control society. The 'corporatocracy' that owns and controls everything, including the politicians, only want human drones that produce and consume that which they decide will be profitable to them. GA, light aviation is not one of them. Where as housing and its inflated cost from demand caused by rapid mass migration is.
I guess everything flows towards those who have the money... Such a shame & really don't see how we can expect to maintain our position, as it stands a the moment - let alone, start to build ourselves back up to a position of authority and influence in the aviation industry... :(
Gutted when it got developed! Such a shame
Great content and a few honest points there. The GA industry as a whole does appear to have stuck in the 70s and isn't appealing to the younger generation
The big killer, apart from all the issues you mentioned on the flying clubs, is that EASA and CAA treated GA as if it was CAT aircraft.. Crazy..
I'm just starting my PPL at the age of 50. Biggest reason for waiting until now? Cost. at £200-250ph for training cost is a MAJOR factor. I'm lucky my local airfield is only 3 miles away, so I can fit training in to my timings. I'm looking more at learning to fly as a journey rather than an end's to a means, but who know what the future will hold....
I started when I was 17, cost was £45 per hour then.
For me cost is the biggest factor. When I was in the process of gaining a PPL (mid 90's), I had opportunity to learn at Brize. Living in Bristol the drive was considerable but the cost saving off set this.
I think the cost is probably the thing which prevents most people getting into aviation... Although there are some pretty cost effective ways of getting into the air now; gliding, paragliding, the new 3-Axis Microlights etc. Unfortunately, this being the UK, we always seem to find a way to inflate costs and make things unreachable to the majority. I went to Florida for a month to do my PPL and some hours building in 2002. Worked out way cheaper to fly there, stay & live there for a month and do 150 hours flying (I stayed for an extra couple of weeks to do additional hours after PPL), than it was to stay and do it in the UK; this mostly due to fuel prices and no landing fees. Unfortunately, given the current circumstances-I don’t see this getting any better in the next couple of years now... 😢
@@MrMPW Yeah, even now, this late in replying, the biggest block to me learning to fly is cost. It’s just impossible to afford.
12:35 I can't lie, being a student with online lectures is more of a curse than a blessing. I think classes and textbooks have been really handy during my undergrad!
Unusual question, I've been seeing this Ultralight known as the Hummel Ultracrusier and I was wondering can this be found and purchased in the uk or not? It's the only craft I've actually been saving cash for.
Hey Matt, thanks for this video, recently I was also thinking of getting myself PPL qualified but finding the process very expensive and lacks digital learning content : (
I was quite lucky to fly gliders when I was younger with my dad. Although I never wen't solo I had many flights under instruction and really enjoyed it. I don't think many kids these days could say that, but it is a very cheap way to get in the air. I would love to learn to fly a microlight but I think I am a bit on the heavy side for it. Any ideas what the maximum student weight in an ideal world would be to take lessons in a Microlight?
Hey Greg! :) Thanks for taking the time to drop in...
Gliding is something I'm going to be documenting on the channel this year & I'm really looking forward to it - a great entry point and as you say, a relatively inexpensive way to get into the air.
The microlight scene has changed a lot over the last few years & many of the 'microlights' are now basically small aircraft (rather than what we'd traditionally imagine as a microlight'). In terms of weight - something like an Ikarus C42 microlight has a max seat weight of 120Kg... But worth noting that the maximum total cockpit weight is 172Kg.
I'm doing an nppl on microlights. I feel like that's where it is in the UK now, and what I'd recommend people interested in GA to get into.
The training fleet is much more modern, the regulations/licenses are simpler (no medical, less exams), lessons are cheaper, microlights are cheaper, much more fuel efficient, and microlights are better for (what remains of) the UK's infrastructure - there's lots of small grass strips that you'll struggle to get in and out of with the old gas guzzlers.
Of course there's a lot of limitations but if you're doing this purely as a hobby then it's probably the best way.
How's it going? I got grounded for the last 3 months as a fellow student bend the nose wheel 😅 (he was ok)
@@stratotramp6243 not yet done the gst but got lots of flying in this summer. Done all the solo hours & requirements. Enjoying it!
@@bencoder excellent, that's the main thing. I suppose it rarely feels like "learning"
im doing my ppl at sleap and it takes me about 35 to 40 minutes to get there. the next nearest is either welshpool or liverpool which is more like an hour away. but yeah, the roads and runway are bumpy as hell, the clubhouse and facillities are old...even though over lockdown 3.0 they are getting renovated so look forward to that
Hi Matt,
As a former Chaplain to the Air Training Corps, I cannot speak too highly for the pathway to aviation careers that the organisation offers.
For me the highlight of my time with the ATC was taking a Chipmunk up for aerobatics... (flying tractor)... never did get to fly the Bulldog, that was far too new for me!
Interesting. The motorcycle industry seems to be suffering the same issues.
Whilst there always appears to be exceptions to the rule, there seems to be a huge obstacle, cost. The cost is financial but it's also a seen as a deficit in time invested.
I just bit the bullet and started up some channel and socials in preparation for a move to the UK and a new direction in life when things settle down a bit so I'm looking forward to seeing more of your channel and getting just a little more insight into the world in your hemisphere.
Cheers Mr MPW!
I’ll check the channel out this evening! :)
Where are you moving from? If there’s anything I can do to help, give me a shout!
@@MrMPW it's still early days. Unpublished and just starting to schedule the whens and wheres for generating content. I'll be months off from viewing material!
Moving in from Melbourne, Australia and returning the family home. We will probably be moving into NW London but man, I appreciate the offer of help!
I might have to pop through on an excursion to Cad West if you're up for a burger.
ALWAYS up for a burger! 😉
I used two GA airfields less than 30 minutes away, they both closed. There are now two about an hour away, one of those is career pilot training only now.
I was travelling a bit further to do aerobatics and could never find anywhere to park. Once when I did find a place, I later had to move the car because "the club captain" was raging that I had used his space. I didn't go back. Compared to a little grass field place I visited, where the school there made sure everyone was welcome.
Spend your time and money on UK GA if you like spending your money and spending your time.
Or fly Radio Control aircraft using an onboard camera (FPV). Far cheaper, far more freedom, far less regulated. Fly jets, fly aerobatic planes, fly biplanes - whatever you fancy. Same flight principles as full scale - but a lot more fun for your money. And fly from a grassy field in the countryside instead of driving through traffic to an airport.
(I used to fly microlights but had to give it up due to pressures of work. Now that I'm retired I could go back to full scale flying - but Radio Control flying gives me everything I need for less hassle.)
Good points. I want to start flying but the aircraft available are older than my dad… doesn’t seem safe
Simple awnser, it's far to expensive and un accesable too the vast majority. (Especially young aviation enthusiats) I'm 25 soon to be 26 and I've always wanted to get my PPL. However it's simply unattainable due to the un real level of cost thats involved. GA in the UK at least to me feels like something that's only achievable if your in the 45+ age group in a high paying job. I feel my chance to learn has passed me bye at least for now, I'm starting a family now and flying lessons arent on the top of the priority list when I get my pay packet sadly. I wish they're was a easy access course or something subsidised to help younger people get into flying. I don't mean it costing nothing just not thousands upon thousands of pounds.
Great video & I agree, and I'm 77 and used to have a PPL back when I was in my 20's & have worked within in the aviation industry most of my career. And at present I'm still here on Crete. Greece & I'm P.C user & thought I could do these exams via a PC, rather than wait and purchase the books ( which would be better to do due the weight & shipping costs etc. ) So a GREAT deal of what you said is so correct, but I suppose these establishment have got to make money?
Don’t know about the wider industry but when it comes to UAV’s then I’d say government, quango, red tape, excessive legislation and that it constantly changes.
Fully agree on the UAV side of things - think it's a little less reactionary in the manned aviation world but still far too much red tape and regulation to help foster any growth...
There is also the problem of a whole load of ageing instructors who have very little in life except lording over younger students. As an overseas qualified aerobatic pilot I was astonished at how weak the two instructors I experienced were in aircraft upset (unusual attitudes). When I deliberately tripped the aircraft into a fully developed spin as part of a spin recovery demonstration one of the instructors actually screamed (I recovered it in less than 1.5 turns FWIW). They neither recognised my qualification/experience nor liked the idea that I (as a foreign PPL) might actually know something they did not (e.g what stick pressure actually tells you). I wanted to fly in the UK but I gave up the idea of flying here as I could not stand the club/CFI attitudes let alone the huge costs (partly due to excessive EASA bureaucracy?).
I think you will successful here ,I am happy find you there. I have watch your talk 0.75x speed (my problem😄) .You are very natural,like a talking with friend (Sorry my poor english)
There's a plus having a training field far out, commercial air traffic does not hender your trainings hours, making it easy for hour building, especially touch and go stage, or just practicing in the GFA area
Interesting video. I live near an RAF base, i know plane owners are based there. Do i know how to get involved? Absolutely not a clue.
I feel it would be easier for me at this rate to buy a field and convert that into a airstrip!
Hi. just discovered your channel. New subscriber here. I got my PPL at Shropshire Aero Club in 2017. Great club and I will be coming back to revalidate my licence at some point. I tried a different club recently due to my house relocation and it wasn’t very inviting and the hire rates didn’t compare. Edit Didn’t realise this video was from 3 years ago. Not sure how it appeared in my recommendations!
I'm glad you got Twitch figured out! I can't run those games on my rig so it's nice to see a professional play them.
I also hope they don't leave the European model as I'm an immigrant that happily did his PfCO with you and hope to work in a streamlined system here and on the mainland with a model similar to the European drivers license... Unless they skip out of that somehow too.
Cheers Alex - me too! :) Did you manage to join us the other night? Looking to go live again tonight at 2050GMT if you're free?
It looks like we'll be closely aligned but it still stands to be seen, what the bilateral agreements will look like (if any at all), come December unfortunately. :(
@@MrMPW oh no sadly I'm an early riser and on the way to Dreamland by then. I did enjoy your controller review though!
Move down to Bristol... EGGD... there is a flying club here!
Can't see that one closing as it's a major airport !
Nice grub too...
One that I have seen and even been subjected to is the level of snobbery that you see in some clubs, I as a pilot have a lot of flying experience and have seen that some clubs will try to quote either aircraft rental and/or flying training prices so high with the purpose of putting people off! My Brother (also a pilot) turned up to a gliding club once and was just told that we don't have your sorts here just because he was wearing scruff (yet fashionable) jeans and a t-shirt. The typical flying club in the UK in my experience is aimed towards the older, usually retired gentlemen that love the "it's always been like this" with the "back in the day" conversations going on all the time. Flying needs to be more affordable and more accessible with clubs and aviation businesses be more accepting of the variation of diversity they should see coming through the doors or it will quite literally die of old age.
Also got out on a medical Discharge. Trying to start my flight training in the spring
Bro sorry about your injury , drive on get it done.
I've almost completed my PPL here in the US and most of these issues are happening here as well. A mitigating factor here at least is gas is not so artificially high priced. Another issue not mentioned is lack of hangar space ... even simple shade hangars. It can take years on a waiting list to get even a basic, distant, and over-priced shade hanger if you're 'lucky'.
I have recently gotten back into the idea of getting into aviation after seeing the innovation/changes thats coming around and weight class changes for microlights (600kg MTOW for example), was considering it in the last 2000s when the RAF turned me down when the big cuts came in (scrapping nimrod for example) and 100% something that saddened me was the difficuilty to get to an airfield which isnt a major international airport. As I have never had an inclination to drive I obviously dont own a car as public transport was always "good enough" but with the recent cuts it would take about 3-5 hours to get public transport to the "close" aerodromes as the direct routes were axed which would require effectively skirting around the entire county.
Really puts me off the idea of even attempting to get into flying, sure the airport has a great (from looking on the outside) training school for getting a PPL but it doesnt look like its going to have a long term capacity open for microlights/600kg class aircraft in the near future which is what I hope to get into (and if I can save it over the next decade on the side, buy my own aircraft/a share). Not to mention of course the kind of daunting idea of being a tiny bug compared to the very large freight aircraft that will be coming in and out all the time and feeling like being in the way while paying very high costs due to the type of airport it is just to take off and land.
As a new aviator (4 months in to ppl training), I agree with most of the points. I would add that younger generations are more in tune with the environmental slant too, such as climate change, and the role that aviation contributes to this challenge. There should be more information at clubs around this at the least, but ideally more options to learn about your environmental impact, and potentially offset it. Better still, I would pay extra to have tuition on an electric pipestrel at my flying club, for example.
It also feels like the aviation world in the uk is a club run by very few, who have successfully lobbied the governing institutions around to have a monopoly on the market. More digitally minded, innovation and disruption can only encourage healthy competition and in turn drive down cost and increase consumer choice.
It truly is an expensive gig to get into and its a shame seeing as Ive done a number of leasons and enjoyed it but cant keep it up.
My dad and his mates had to travel 1-2hrs to get to a 'local' flying school/club (one of which was Booker in the 1960s). These days he would have three or four choices at 15-40mins distance/time (although the closest is has now shut to be built on as have lots of ex MOD/RAF airfields locally).
I think fixed wing 600kg microlights are probably a good inroad. Aviation as a hobby can be a funny old game. I love all aircraft, I've been lucky enough to have flown in several types, never ceases to amaze me though how certain factions look down their noses at Eg microlights. I'm interested in all things that fly, regardless of budget or status. Arguably most microlights are ideally suited to farm strips - not all GA types are! Thus everyone needs to pull together, if decent airfields are to be kept going, we've lost out on Wellsbourne, Old Sarum, parts of Shorham built on etc. Certain clubs don't help the cause either.
Also am I right in thinking that the British Airways (now foreign owned?) has business interests in the CAA? Not good re levers of power if true.
The UK has allowed it's aviation industry to be eroded by govts and so called 'allies' (over past 50-80yrs), I've seen several classic, serviceable aircraft fall at the last ditch recently only to be carved up or used for 'glamping' etc. Our govt doesn't care about our heritage - only enforced nostalgia - nor does it want GA (It's bending over backwards for Amazon drones though I bet - Amazon running large chunks of govt systems). The UK should be designing and building - at the very least - GA aircraft and fixed wing microlights, we've let such slip through our fingers.
Use it, or loose it!?
I only recently understood the meaning of glass cockpit. I wondered what the other options were? Chicken wire? Bars?
Mechanical gauges vs computer displays.
Excellent presentation. I live in the US and while we still have it good here, but the same thing could happen in the US. Something I think would help, if you could find enough people together, who was willing to start and live in an airpark. There are a number of airparks in Florida. Where you have your house and connected to it is a hanger for your airplane(s). I don't know what the situation is in the UK, if anything of the sort could be worked out so that you are not paying an arm and leg to live in an airpark. Just an idea.
Here in Norfolk I have two options - GA and microlighting. The former is riven with internal politics and, as a new club member, falls just short of hostile. As someone who doesn't have an RV-14 and hasn't yet got a license, well, it's plain they don't want me which is a shame as I'm 3 miles away. Membership is abandoned. 20 minutes away is the microlighting school and it's the opposite. I suggest you try your local equivalent. I expect you to find nice, open people, ready and willing to talk and share advice and information. Lessons are £135 per hour and new aircraft can be built from kits for under £20,000.
Multiflight Cafe, at LBA, awesome burgers, well worth the flight!
A school I now offered two new pipistrelles with glass cockpits and nobody wanted them because they knew they wouldn't be flying them after PPL. They knew they'd be buying a share or hiring a 50 year old Cessna or Piper. Chicken and egg but like so many things the UK is on it's last legs. I really don't see a way back. I got my PPL in 1989 and learned on aircraft from the 60s and 70s. I go the airfield today and they are still instructing on planes from the same decades. I learnt on 20 year old planes. Today they are learning on 50 year old planes......
I also got my PPL in 1989(now lapsed) out of Biggin Hill and it would appear they've pushed aside GA;apparently all the flying schools have gone.
It was expensive then,far more so today and as you say the aircraft we learnt in are still being used with no doubt,many scrapes along the way...no thanks.
As an asides,if i had the money to buy the Mooney i once dreamt about it would have to be steam gauged for me.
I think the NPPL(M) training fleet has got younger alot are now using C42 aircraft of less than 10years old, the microlight class now being upto 600Kg MTOW have performance equal to if not better than a lot of the older Group A and with much lower running costs and fuel burn.
I first took flying lessons (fixed wing) in the mid 90's then stopped. 4 years ago I started again with gyros and just after my 69th birthday achieved my PPL(G). I couldn't believe that the methodology, theory and exams basically hadn't moved forward in that time! Luckily I trained with the Gyrocopter Experience who operate the Gyropedia where lessons can be learned online and there are videos of all manoeuvres to watch before actually flying them, I can honestly say that I knew exactly what was going to be thrown at me before each lesson. I now always fly with Skydemon and have thrown my whizzwheel away, why isn't this required training in this day and age?
As an aside I agreed that learning in the congested skies of UK with poor weather, etc., make a better pilot. Years ago I qualified as a sport diver in the cold murky waters of UK, when I dived the Mediterranean I was astounded at the lack of knowledge and safety procedures of locally trained divers.
I have been thinking about getting a PPL, and would love to be a pilot. but for me, its just too expensive to justify the fun per value ratio. like you said, i dont want to spend 10K+, and then 150 an hour to poodle around in the air for a while, to go bet a burger and chips- as much fun as it would be. If the cost was a lot lower, i would be on board.
Have you considered PPL(M) I fly a CT2K it's faster than a Cessna and wider in the cockpit. Only 2 seats obviously! Maybe consider it. It's slightly cheaper.
I know what you mean about booker. Stapleford had the same feel and that was just buying a coffee in the cafe! Quite a few unwelcome glares from instructors in nice pressed shirts.
literally agree with most points. Ive had my skills test cancelled for the 5th time due to weather and it has put me off flying. I cant afford to continue as the examination fees and rental fees are high. The facilities are bad, membership fees are high and in my opinion pointless and yeah when i done my QXC the amount i paid for landing fees were almost the same amount as one hour in the cessna. However as a gen z (i speak for myself and a lot my friends of the same gen) we dont necessarily like the new planes and glass cockpits. We too like the old school steam gauges and older aircraft. The science behind it is: many pilots decided to be pilots from a young age with our generation that was a time we still had old school planes such as DC10, Concordes, MD-11s the old 737s etc we looked up on those planes and dreamed of flying THOSE planes and as we got older and now at a age where we can start flying as pilots those aircraft and their partly steam guages have mostly been retired. Many of us would have loved to flown a concorde or a 727 with steam instruments because that was the dream right? and the nearest thing we have is an old cessna or pa28. Many of us like the challenge of looking at the guages and working out what its saying rather than having a glass instrument literally saying it. Also a lot of us still prefer going into a classroom to study the theory. Myself and many of my mates done a groundschool course in a classroom. We grew up with technology. Its isnt new for us and as many of the older generations would say that we get bored quick and have a shorter attention span it is true. We rather have a human teach us than use our phone as we are bored of our phones and if we study at home we again lose concentration and start working on other things. So having someone there to teach us and get our interest is better for us. Lastly its financial access. Long gone are the days where mum and dad had enough savings to finance their kid’s education. Taxes, cost of living, rent etc has gone up a lot. Parents now need what money they have left to pay that. Therefore (and again i can only speak foe my generation and what ive seen amongs friends and my own experience) we now need to work long and difficult hours to pay for training. Yes maybe thats how it should be but at the same time that distracts people from studying. I have had to work night shifts on two hours of sleep, work in the cold, work in tough conditions just to cough up enough for training and many of the people i know do the same. Making flying financially accessible is also something to consider. In Sweden the government has a scheme where they pay for flight training. There should be a similar scheme here or schemes done by flying clubs and academies. For instance the gliding guys done it well. They have a cadet scheme. I remember i used to wake up at 4am, travel for 2 hours to a gliding club. I used to clean gliders in the cold and rain, retrieve them, bring in customers and i wouldnt get paid but i got free flight lessons in return it was hard work but i didnt mind because i was doing something i loved and this is the sort of schemes that would get more of us in. We wouldn’t mind working for the school if we get a free flights or some financial help so wr can pay these high rates. Also retaining pilot numbers is important. In the states they have the civil air patrol where again you dont get paid but you can earn flight hours and build experience. These are the things that would get people in as many of us have the dream and ability to become a pilot but the financial burden slows us down and in many cases deterred people from continuing flight training. I could go on about the whole CAA EASA recognition thing but this comment is long enough 😂😂
I'm really trying to get people back into it. Microlights are pretty cheap relatively and a lot more advanced than previously. I just hope the government is honest about making the UK the best place for GA. I wish I knew how 'affordable' it was sooner (it's not cheap but not 100s of thousands like I thought). Now I think in 10 years there won't be anywhere to go unless we get more pilots. Lol at the roads. Try getting onto Sackville.
A great summary f what is lacking in the UK and, it really does need to be modernized on a number of fronts. I am not sure if it is too late. There has been a general lack of understanding about the aviation industry. Most's peoples encounters with aviation are limited to the annual air display or the long awaited holiday, after that, it is well and truly in the rear view mirror. I am an x RAF serviceman myself and I cannot but help that the RAF themselves (Ok MOD) have actively contributed to the demise of the sector. They have closed perfectly good airfields like RAF Lyneme and moved the gear to places like Brize Norton which in effect become Superbases! Whilst we could debate the merits of this both Tactically and Strategically, (One carefully deployed explosive device can effectively wipe-out RAF Transport Operations) I question to merits of this move to save money.
Yes I know that the Army has taken over Lyneme and it is technically still available and the same can be said for far away bases such as Chivenor which the Marines now have but I think this has damaged the view of aviation in the eyes of the youngster's and the public at large. They are too far removed from the actual bases so they have no affiliation to aviation. Unfortunately, there also appears to no political appreciation of the assets. Whilst the merits of building Greenham Common were discussed many years a ago - Did we really have to dig it up after the nukes had gone home? I thinks that the RAF themselves could have adapted a more flexible approach to the positioning of their bases. Take RAF St Mawgan, a super large runway that is now in the hands of the local council. Perhaps if the RAF had spread themselves across the country and partnered up with different local councils they could have shared these resources and held onto them a bit longer. In many parts of the world you will often find small military bases alongside a civilian airport, but not in the uk - Perhaps this was a lost opportunity!
I took my first 1 hour flight lesson as an Xmas gift from my wife at Swansea Airport in a P38 Tomahawk at 62 years of age 4 days ago ,Best thing iv'e ever done and regretted not doing it it earlier in life. I noticed quite a few young Pilot instructors there and was ,as you said a bit taken aback how old and under developed the airfield was .But the staff there were superb and the flight was amazing.As i head for retirement this is what i want to do,and with a good pension i can facilitate this,But the financial investment for younger pilots is daunting and concenrning to someone who has been bitten by the bug late in age .Cost,Location can be inhibitive to most
Suggested just that to the local flying club about 20 years ago, yes you heard it right!
No interest then, no interest now....
So disappointing.
Hope this change before it's too late....
Most flying clubs don't operate with decent margins, and don't have the capital to buy any new(er) aircraft. For a lot of schools, once their aircraft goes bang-thats it. It's very sad
I don't know if im just weird but im 14 and I love the old aircraft with steam gauges😂, I just feel like glass cockpits are better on airliners.
What is the video talking about?
@@transportguy1k635 There was a part where it said younger people prefer glass cockpits in GA but I don't😅
No I meant what is this video exactly about
@@transportguy1k635 Oh, it's just about how flight schools need to change in the uk because we have some of the worst ones
Things haven't improved in the last 2 years: costs have gone up and realtime disposable income for most people has been squeezed. I really hope things pick up for the industry!
What concerns me is all the hype about futuristic flying cars etc.
Where the hell are they going to take off from with all the airfields closing ???
I'm 35 year old and want to get my pilots licence. I'm not bothered about age of aircraft for me it's more about cost.
I'd love to get my commercial pilots licence but it's the cost that stopping me and I'm sure it's the same with a lot of people.
To rent a modern glass panel AC it's 400 a hour US thats a lot of money , If you have deep pockets or rich parents it's possible but for the average Joe it's not possible. Good Video though. I have been flying since the 1970s ppl / rotorcraft, taildragger rated. It's a expensive hobby but i LOVE it...
It's Cost. Always has been, always will be. The better training and better aircraft will all come through free market dynamics once the numbers of budding pilots increase - which will only happen when it actually becomes affordable. The CAA needs to lower the running cost burden on aircraft, and could start by lowering the insurance SDR percentage and lowering costs of inspection and license issuance. An annual inspection on a single engine two seat light aircraft costs ~£2k, and that says nothing of the extortionate 50, 100 and 150 hr inspections.
Yes, sadly it's just too expensive. I got a PPL in the US for under $5,000 in the late 1980s - of course I couldn't afford to convert and keep it current after my return to the UK because it cost 3-4x as much here (cheap fuel over there made a big difference). So I had the experience I wanted - learning to fly - but could never capitalise on it. I think about taking it up again but at what, £15,000? just for a course, never mind ongoing costs, it's not practical, sadly. And with fossil fuels inevitably (and rightly) becoming more and more expensive, it won't be in my lifetime. :(
I really want to get my ppl but it’s the cost that puts me off, £140 an hour to rent a aircraft is a lot of money if that was for a day I wouldn’t mind.
Is the U.K. government really interested in maintaining general aviation?
Doesn’t seem so at the moment... Seems like we’re more of a hinderance to them commoditising the airspace unfortunately! 😬😔
_"The investment isn't there, in the infrastructure..."_
That's just a description of England mate. Most roads are a bloody mess here.
Speaking as someone who's spent god knows how much time driving in Japan, China, South Korea...their roads make ours look like the top of a Rhubarb crumble.
I drive 100 miles to get to the aircraft. And then 100 miles back…if I didn’t love helicopters so much…
UK legislation seems to be designed to put as many obstacles in the way of people’s lives
Certainly seems that way eh? 🥴
I was obsessed by helicopters I flew RC helicopters and then started training in full size it was the cost that stopped me in the end even though the instructor said I was a natural it seems the Air Force or military is the only viable way to learn
You only have to watch a uk flying video vs a US video on RUclips to see they in the US have all the best up to date digital equipment
😢😢😢😢😢
One thing I thought would deffinetly be in here would be cost... Average PPL is almost 10k and thats incredibly expensive for the average joe....... Or someone without rich ass parents or ability to get a loan
Left cost out of it as an individual point because it kinda goes without saying... Flying has never been and never will be cheap in the UK.
That being said; you’d be surprised how far you can get with it if it’s the hobby you want to do. Lots of people at my club have.do pay for it by cutting out a meal or two ‘out’ a month and not heading to the pub a couple of nights a week.
That’ll get you a couple of Cessna 152 hours a month, right there!
@@MrMPW not going the pub!😵😵 Thats what I think im gonna have to do :(
In the UK there has been general decline in boating, motorcycling, and sports in general. Catastrophic decline in amateur football participation. Decline in just about every past time you can think of that consumed boys imaginations in the 20th century. How can you compete with gaming, social media, entertainment etc.? Not to mention how vulnerable all the old institutions are to attacks from left and right.
Spot on Tommy as a frustrated father of three who's had a multitude of hobbies interests all my life all my kids are interested in is screening.
Stapleford great flying school i learnt there
What's killing general aviation in Britain, is youngsters are doing there PPL and CPL in South Africa, were pounds turned into South African Rands takes you a lot further into getting a license, part from South Africas perfect weather, and fantastic air schools
I can’t fault a single point made here…
It seems to be the same story across all aviation disciplines. Hang gliding is suffering from a lack of interest amongst the younger generations. The average age within our tow group is probably late 50s. The flying is great tho and we operate on a shoestring. Feel free to drop in at Croft when you start flying again!
ruclips.net/video/x3UjDwNK9h8/видео.html
Hey Doreen; it's such a shame isn't it? Hopefully we can make it more appealing to a younger audience and convince them that it's actually something which is worth doing (alongside making it accessible and cost-effective for them to get into)... I'll let you know as soon as I get back into the air and organise a trip down to see you all!
Mr MPW we have a dual hg. Maybe we could arrange a flight if you want! One of our members is ex forces chopper pilot.
Tech is the way forward, Aviation is in a dire situation if nothing else because of COVID ! When the dust settles general aviation is going to come out im
C A A Stands for cancel all aviation Why is it that the CAA still insist on learning how to use a manual flight computer when they are not used in the real world and have not been used in years