Started hunting the central U.P. at family camp in 1980. I've seen the deer numbers crash since then forsure. The big slide downward started in the mid 90's. Just prior to that was the wolf protection/introduction and a major shift in the DNR's giving out of extreme amounts of antlerless tags starting in the late 80's in areas far outside of what was traditionally only in the menominee "banana belt" area. Initially hunters brought down the deer population a lot in the 90's and into the 2000's. Deer poles were loaded equally with bucks to does in the 90's and also about that time the bridge count started showing way more does than bucks being taken across the bridge. If you seen a truck and trailer on the road hauling a couple bucks back then, you'd almost always see a few does on the trailer as well. Hunters shot the crap out of deer back then believing everything the dnr was saying about shoot more does. The big deer party came to an end with the two back to back winters of 95-96 & 96-97 and has never fully recovered. Man did we ever have deep snow those years. I remember driving down the roads and you couldn't even see into the woods cause of such high snow banks. Deer season of 96 we seen 30% fewer deer than in 95 and then another 30% fewer again in the 97 season. Every year we kept a daily camp log of what we seen hunting. It was shocking but still way better numbers than what we have now. What was crazy is in the fall of 96 the DNR was still giving out large amounts of antlerless tags after we just lost 30% of the population. The dnr slowed down some in 97 but by 2000 were back at it giving out craps loads of antlerless tags and hunters gobbled them down. In the mid 2000 the deer population seemed to stall regardless if we had a mild winter or not. In the 2000's I started spending alot more time at camp, putting in food plots, feeders all the good stuff to attract the deer and no matter what we did we never got back to the numbers we'd had seen in our fields prior to 95. Also in the 2000's hunters in camp starting seeing the sight of wolf tracks more often and every now and then a wolf itself while out hunting. For 10+ years around 2000 the DNR protected the Coyote from being shot during the november rifle season. The DNR and NRC were too concerned hunters would shoot a wolf mistaking it for a coyote. Oddly enough for the past 10+ years it been legal again to shoot a coyote during deer season and no ones been making that mistake. When the dnr tells us hunters we have too many coyotes and they are the biggest contributing factor to fawn predation, just remember who protected them when the vast majority of hunters were afield every year and would have been happy to bag a coyote. I wonder how much coyote populations expanded due to the dnr not allowing them to be shot during rifle deer season?. We will never get back to the deer numbers we used to have, it won't be allowed. As Chad Steward with the Mi DNR called them "Stake holders" Well there are too many "stake holders" at play now. Combined with years of mismanagement and continued mismanagement we'd be lucky if we could just maintain populations. However its showing we can't even keep the numbers at a stable level and this now is mainly due to the wolves having come on so strong. There are many "Stake holders" that benefit from a low deer population and they hire lobbyist to rub shoulders with the politicians and donate to political campaigns to get what they want. Some of these "stake holders" love the fact we have wolves. Wolves can do what hunters can't and pick at the deer herd 24/7/365. Farm bureau loves we have wolves. Less crop damage. Auto insurance industry, just in Michigan in 2022 it was estimated at 130 million in claims due to car deer accidents. Forestry/Timber industry, faster tree regeneration. Certified forest initiative. Beef industry, control of food. Less free venison, have to buy more beef. It's always about the money, follow the money and you'll get your answers to why the deer herd is being allowed to evaporate. The exploding wolf population is a benefit to some "stakeholders" What's also concerning is in 1996 we voted in Proposal G which is " To use the sound scientific management". It seems to me that the DNR has failed to live up to what we told them to do instead allowing "stakeholders" to guide them in making decisions regarding game in the state. Not only is our deer herd faltering but look at our moose population. In the 80's and 90's the goal was a huntable moose population of 2000 moose by year 2000. How cool would've a limited U.P. moose hunt have been? The wolves have set that back how far? Decades perhaps or worse yet we may lose that reintroduction effort all together because of the wolves. Much is out of our control until elections come around. The director of the DNR is appointed. The NRC members are appointed. It matters who we allow to make those appointments for those positions. Lastly, just because the DNR gives out lots antlerless tags it does not mean we hunters need to buy them or use them regardless of the populations numbers they feed us. By now we know the accuracy of their numbers they dished out over the years and it never seems to line up. The DNR has stated that Michigan has 1.8 to 2 million deer, they've been using this same number for the most part since the 90's. There's always some or multiple excuses being pushed as to low harvest numbers, too much snow, too warm, rut was over, too windy, to rainy, opener during the week, corn still up, too many acorns, full moon, deer are nocturnal because we bait, deer were nocturnal because we didn't bait, deer avoid bait piles now and deer have adapted to move less now because of wolves on the landscape. The deer season of 2024 is going to be really interesting for sure with such a mild winter this year. If the population is down again this year and we don't see fawns what excuse are they going to use this year. Maybe the deer had heat stroke over the winter. It's obviously up to us to practice conservation now, the DNR has had years to get it right, to keep a balance and they've clearly failed and do not have the outdoorsman or the outdoor community as their priority "stakeholder".
the deer population was out of balance before you were born. now it is at a natural level of homeostasis. you have to be a talented hunter now. no more easy herd hunting.
@@bromethiustrilbotbromeldeh6625 baiting for deer isnt very "sporting" either. As for the moose they are falling prey to some virus that deer carry , but it doesnt effect them, but it kills moose. Just something to consider.
Non resident here. Hunting schoolcraft County since 1994. I have not seen an 8 pt. In 6 years. I mainly bow hunt but I see the decrease in deer numbers. It was so bad last year I just gave up. So sad I love the outdoors but management needs to change. I am not the only one not seeing deer.
@@primesspct2 As for baiting I don't care if people bait or not. I have done it both ways. I will say this, ALL of the big bucks I've shot have never come over bait. A mature 4,5 or 6 year old buck learns quickly bait piles are not natural. Big bucks will come into the "area" because they are attracted by the does hitting bait but they themselves will avoid the bait pile. A 3.5 y.o. is not a mature buck. Many hunters can't handle seeing so few deer without bait so they lean on the help of bait to see deer. As for the moose, thats the brain worm you speak of, its been around forever. Prior to wolf population explosion, the moose numbers were steadily climbing even with the brainworm in play. That's an invalid argument to their population decline.
I’m in my 70s, originally from Michigan and I hunted many seasons in the UP. 50 years ago there were no wolves in the UP and few coyotes. The DNR championed the reintroduction of wolves against the residents wishes. After several attempts it seems to have worked. Although I love Michigan and the God’s country of the UP I left 30 years ago due to the deranged liberals that were destroying the state’s economy all around. I now live in South Carolina where sanity in government still exists, where wildlife abounds, the deer season is three months long and the first day of spring is always Groundhog Day.
The Northern 1/3 of Wisconsin holds approximately 4,000 Wolves and the DNR says we have 1,000 to 1,200. I also hunt in Michigan between Ontonagon and Toivola, and from what we see I'd estimate there's at least 3 to 4,000 Wolves in the UP. I had 4 Wolves right up to my tent the opening day of the MI. Rifle hunt, and another member of our group had a Wolf follow him through the woods for 2 hours second day of season. Not too sure what happened to that one? The DNR in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan have been managing for predators since about 2000. We have a bunch of Anti hunters running our DNR in all 3 States. It's a crying shame whats happening. Vote Republican and get these Wolves off the Federal List. Every Wolf accounts for roughly 20 to 25 Deer per year. Calculate what the Deer per square mile used to be and realize each pack stays in a 25 to 40 Sq. Mile area respecting the next packs territory. The Wolves are running out of Deer to kill. I was a professional hunting guide and trapper for 30 years. By 2019 my lifelong business ended because I didn't have the inventory to support my business....not even close.
We used to have a good deer population around crystal falls and now the deer are next to extinction, cancel deer season and put on wolf season, the DNR has the wrong animal protected, the whitetails in the upper peninsula are getting the same stupid management as the ring neck pheasant got 40 and 50 year's ago to the present day, the sport is over
@@brucepoole8552 no kidding? I never realized that after hunting for over 50 years, bahaha, so your point is the wildlife manages itself? That'll all fine and dandy, so it will be fine and appropriate to cut 90%or 100% of the DNR buget, we don't need them, let mother nature take care of it, I bet that we would have just as much wildlife around then?
Bear hunted up around our camp near Trout Lake last year. Did not Deer hunt there the past 2 years. No Deer on any of our game cameras and no Deer tracks on over 12 miles of 2 track around camp. Lots of wolves on the cameras however. Some with collars some not. Im sure there are a great deal more then 600 wolves in the UP.
Not to mention coy-wolves which eventually will make it to my neck of the woods Ohio, where deer are still abundant,. I have lived here 35 years, when I moved here there were NO coyotes here, within the last 20 years their numbers have exploded. There are so many, even with open season year round on them.
Great job keeping the content coming in a tough Winter to do so Dave. The ice for fishing has been goofy, the crusty snow has made rabbit dogs struggle, and the lack of snow has made snow shoeing almost pointless. You and I both are used to our typical winter weather, and have planned our normal activities accordingly. When we get a curveball like this year every 12-15 years, it really throws a wrench in the works.
I remember when you did a few videos like this last year. I really enjoy them. Also there are many more than 600 wolf in the U.P. The DNR just seem to like that number for some reason. The DNR has a wolf trail cam set up close to where we hunt in Central Menominee County. If really like to see the pictures on that. Todd from da U.P.
I've hunted the three lakes area For many years. Last year our Party of four saw one deer over The first four days of rifle season. One of the guys has A great video of wolf tracks Following deer tracks down His driveway.
A good friend of mine has been going to deer camp in the Watton, Sidnaw area for about 60 years. 2023 firearm is the first year he did not go, he went fishing instead. He said there are no deer in the area anymore. Wolves and bears were the only critters on his cameras.
A timbershepard rescue sanctuary in MN says it takes 40 pounds of meat to feed a timbershepard for a week. 600 wolves X 40 pounds X 52 weeks= 1,248,000 pounds of meat. WI just did a survey and found only 47% of fawns live to see the gun deer season. Add killer winters to the mix. PS I grouse hunted all fall, I never saw a buck.
I've been hunting the Sidnaw area since the early 90's. This year, 3 guys in camp hunted 17 days. We collectively saw 2 deer (probably the same one). I have four deer that don't go more than 100 yds from my cabin, and they're nocturnal and spooky (I've got them on multiple cell cameras in video mode). On 60 acres, I run 10 cameras. I only have occasional wolf pics, but several coyotes, which we shoot if we see them. I'll never stop hunting the U.P. but it is a real bummer right now. My guys are all newish to hunting and haven't gotten their first deer yet. I'm hoping they'll hang in there.
And here in the LP we have the second most deer of any state behind Texas. I see them everyday in suburban Detroit. Makes sense since we supposedly don’t have any wolves yet. But coywolves have been found in northern Michigan so some seem to have snuck down.
The UP is officially 10.5 million acres. 600 wolves equals only one wolf per 17,500 acres. I live down in the Mountains of NC...but I'm following this wolf thing very closely. All I can say is "I don't freakin' think so!"
Back in the day many folks headed to the UP to hunt deer. Now the numbers are so low many of the locals aren't even seeing deer and the traveling hunters have abandoned the idea of going. In the lower peninsula they handed out Doe tags like candy last year $20 a pop, up to 10 for state and federal land. We used to have to apply. It seems "some powers" are trying to remove the deer completely. At this rate they'll succeed soon
I was in the UP back in 1992 and saw a wolf. I reported it to a ranger, and he said that I was mistaken and had seen a coyote. "There are no wolves in Michigan!" 🤓
I live in Iron County, Mi. Too many wolves up here. I have a few game cam’s out and I have a number of pictures of the same six deer. Six deer is insanely low for where I live!! Not one of my neighbors got a deer this past season. A very sad state of affairs. I haven’t gotten a picture of any wolves on my camera, but my neighbor has on his. You can hear them at night. There is a distinct difference between wolves howling and barking vs coyotes. Time for a wolf season in the UP of Michigan!!
Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin have 2 to 3 times the Wolves than what they admit to. All the motel businesses, the bars, cafe's , gas stations and grocery stores have suffered for it. And for what? Kids have misssd out on a great tradition. Long time deer camps are gone. People have bought land and cabins for hunting and now they have no deer. And for what? All this public hunting land in northern Minnesota and no deer. So everyone hunts the southern half of the state. Very crowded. And for what? This is so stupid
Hey Dave ya there’s way to many wolfs We have lots at our camp as well. I think they better put new batteries in there calculators cause there’s way more than the 600 they claim there is. Nice video
Wolves have knocked deer numbers down in Reston by our camp too. 100 years ago they trapped, shot,and poisoned they to get rid of them. The native Wolves were smaller. The land should be managed to best benefit man.
i talked to many deer hunters this past deer season and all saw wolves or lots of sign. lots of coyotes as well. my feeling is what is more important -a deer or a wolf. a wolf does not generate the $ that a deer does.
Some areas do have plenty of deer. But I have a few friends that have a lot of wolves in the areas they hunt. One of those friends that consistently gets deer only saw wolve tracks and never even saw a deer last season. So no, the deer aren't gone, but having a pack of wolves in your hunting area can mess it up. But yes, we have a good huntable population of deer in most places.
I love knowing those kind of animals. Moose, Bears, Wolves, And so on live in the UP. It tells you you're in a special place. A place that can sustain that kind of wildlife if some place special. But, On the other hand some of these animals like the wolf needs to be put kept in check. I own a camp near iron river. And I witness the decimation of the deer herd. It's all but gone.
They have been saying 600 for 15 yrs WTF? It’s the number DNR are stuck on because of the size of UP landmass? DNR is a Fkn joke! Chickens are the least of The worry! It’s deer an partridge an Rabbits!
Here in WI, CWD, been here 20yrs already. The DNR didn't help matters being so tight with doe permits for 40yrs. Now, fewer hunters, sick deer. So glad I hunted when I did, the friends and great experience.
People keep saying the Deer population is way down? I can only say I live in Ironwood on Business 2 literally on the edge of downtown. I can see the Train Depot from my house. I have a Spotlight camera on my garage deer are constantly in my yard. Along with some Fox and a bunch of feral cats even some chickens the neighbor owns that get out. I haven't seen Coyote or Wolves yet in over a year. I've seen Elk around Hurly. I think the deer population is probably higher they are just smart where to avoid.
Wolf and bear populations everywhere need to be controlled. Northern Ontario deer and moose population has been devastated by those predators. Spring bear had been cancelled 25 years ago due to Toronto bleeding hearts that have never been north. When crops are ripening for harvest in my area of the north its not unusual to see up to 20 - 30 bears in a field eating destroying a farmers livelihood. Bears are omnivores, wolves on the other hand are not but both eat meat. Bleeding hearts many years ago destroyed the fur trade and wolf populations took off.
@KnettersPracticalOutdoors To have the Michigan DNR blame the deer numbers on anything but wolves, is utterly psychotic. I've seen the damage done on the elk in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.
All animals have high and low cycles. Predator numbers follow the prey cycles. I live and hunt in the UP. In the last 3 years I have seen more deer and more wolves than before. I watched from my blind 3 wolves chasing a doe. They didn't get the doe it was healthy and strong. The wolves went the other way to find a sick, old weak deer. Wolves keep the deer healthy. Again, all animals have cycles up and down. Fact. The wolves are a must. I lived by Oscoda, MI in 1989. Five countries around there had deer with TB. Why? No wolves. Wolves can sense sickness, weakness.
The deer were extinct in the lower peninsula for over 3/4 of a century, from bad management and predation, it wasn't until the wolves coyotes were eliminated and the humans harvest was managed the white tail came back to the lower peninsula, the reason for your TB problem started when the deer contracted it from the cattle herd in your area, which now have to be tested annually, the DNR results on the TB problem speaks for itself, the sport of deer hunting is going to die
@@robinflint6100 The wolves get blamed. I talk to guys and they say if they see a wolf they shot it in the stomach so it run off to die . Oscoda never blamed TB on cattle. Anyway, where I hunt there are less hunters now. Most hunter go to where alot of deer are seen all year. Last year I road two tracks for month and months. Saw 1 deer. That why most hunter go elsewhere. That's fine, more for us.
You say you have to have the wolves, and blame the deer getting TB from a cow as a reason for wolves, why then is the best deer population and healthiest population in southern Michigan where there isn't any wolves, that kinda blow's your whole story, plus you stated you rode around all season and saw one deer? Remember the white tail deer was extinct in the lower peninsula for going on 70 year's, so you can easily see it happening in the UP
@@robinflint6100 my dad lived just south of Lansing surrounded by farmland. We hunted there. We shot two deer that had to be thrown out because they had a green slime covering their meat probably from spraying crops with chemicals. Brain disease is another thing deer get down south. Lots of deer doesn't mean they are good for human consumption. I moved to the UP to get away from all the BS affecting deer "management" lies. They want people to buy license s healthy deer or not. Given a choice of eating a deer killed in the lower or the UP. I'll only eat the UP deer far away from farmers.
I give Chad stewart credit for trying to do interviews. But dnr biologists dont travel out of Lansing much. but, ibet 1000 to 1500 wolves. Shame UP is so forgot about in Lansing.
As a Menominee County resident, I’ve had wolves in my driveway and front yard. They even killed a deer in my backyard, and once attempted to kill my black lab. Yup, I love wolves.
Yes in northern Wisconsin there are way more then 600 wolves .....but they are a historical part of the region, just need to keep the population in check.
Well, OK...Whatever! I will try and be kind because you seem like a great guy, which sort of comes from living in this magical place we call the UP. That being said there is nothing, and I do not mean a little of nothing, but a whole lot of nothing, about hanging a couple of dead chickens to a tree, and then seeing what comes and eats it, proving anything. If anything your data just proved that wolves do not kill anything, they just eat what is already dead. Not the point I think you were trying to make. And the reason why actual wildlife biologist do not listen to anything you all say. I have a suggestion. Since you do know the woods, instead of fighting with people that know a whole lot more about biology than you do, invite them in, show them the woods, and work together. There may well be the need for a wolf hunt in the UP, but the people that will make that decision are laughing at this video. But otherwise I really did like the video.
Well, of course one wolf sighting doesn't mean anything other than there was at least one wolf in that particular area at that time. It's just my person experience that makes me think there must be more than 600 wolves in the U.P. One year I had 2 different wolves on camera at my house (these 2 wolves attacked my neighbors dog, he ran the wolves off himself as they were attacking. He reported it and the DNR investigated the attack sight and confirmed his story. It was in the news, but that's neither here nor there) and then at least one on camera at my camp 45 miles away. It just seems unlikely that out of 600 wolves I had 3 of them in the small fraction of the U.P. that I have cameras. If I put a camera up on my camp road, no bait, no chicken, no carcass, just a camera pointing down a 2 rut road, I'm just as likely to get a picture of a wolf as I am a bear. And there is estimated to be over 10,000 bears in the U.P. Almost 2,000 bears were harvested last bear season alone. So to me, and I could be wrong, but it just doesn't make sense that there is only 600 wolves. I do try to be helpful to the DNR in these matters. As I mentioned in the video I did register this sighting with the DNR. I had a collared wolf near my house a few years ago. LINK - ruclips.net/video/7biD7bUbWf0/видео.html I had pics and video of it and I sent them to the DNR. They informed me they had no knowledge of a collared wolf in that area. Of course they can't know about every wolf in the U.P. A few biologist doing some studies and getting some feedback of sightings. That's not much to go on and I'm sure they are doing the best they can. Figuring out the number of wolves in the U.P. is going to be a guess to some degree. I don't believe we should kill every wolf and I certainly don't fight with the DNR on these matters as you suggested (whether they are laughing at my video or not). I'm just suggesting that it seems like there is more than 600 wolves in the U.P. I do appreciate you commenting on the video, thanks.
@@KnettersPracticalOutdoors Well that was a reasoned and well measured reply, considering my comment was somewhere between angry and satirical. Actually, I think it was the title that set me off. Like there is someone on RUclips that is going to prove there are more than 600 wolves in the UP. I do personally agree with you, I do think there are more than 600 wolves in the UP. But that is just a personal opinion, a personal opinion shared by many. As to people "laughing at your video", the people that do make these decisions care only about data. Opinion and emotion are not data to them. And trail cams are revolutionizing the gathering of data. The harvest of white tail deer has declined every year for the past 35 years in the UP, so something is going on. The answer could be simple, like it could be the wolf. It could also be as simple as the environment has exceeded its carrying capacity, (this is after all the Northern limit of the white tail). But since I believe in systems theory, I believe the answer is complex. People that continually post comments that state "It's the wolf I know so because I have a trail cam", are not taken seriously. I commend you for stating "I don't believe we should kill every wolf", that is courageous because there are many out there that want to do just that. Once again, my opinion, the wolf has as much right to harvest a deer as we do, that is a badge I will proudly wear. But anyway, I did think the video was cool, more so because, on the 10th of March as I look out my window, there is not a drop of snow on the ground....And that is just not right in the UP!
@@KnettersPracticalOutdoors And I forgot to say, that anyone from the DNR saying they had no knowledge of a collared wolf in the area, while on the surface may be true, it is disingenuous. They know that collared wolves in Canada have traveled 1500 miles in less than a week
Yes your a wildlife biologist we get it your the experts, great job with the management of the ringneck pheasant in the lower peninsula, the same genius wildlife biologist that introduce autumn olive to the lower peninsula and now complain it invasive and out of control, you know where the most game is in Michigan? Where wildlife biologist have the least amount of control, results matter to people with a bit of common sense
They need to regulate the amount of wolves! Once they kill the deer , moose , rabbits, coyotes etc what’s next? Dogs cats a possible child? If everyone on this post is seeing less and less deer then they are already creating a problem
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Started hunting the central U.P. at family camp in 1980. I've seen the deer numbers crash since then forsure. The big slide downward started in the mid 90's. Just prior to that was the wolf protection/introduction and a major shift in the DNR's giving out of extreme amounts of antlerless tags starting in the late 80's in areas far outside of what was traditionally only in the menominee "banana belt" area. Initially hunters brought down the deer population a lot in the 90's and into the 2000's. Deer poles were loaded equally with bucks to does in the 90's and also about that time the bridge count started showing way more does than bucks being taken across the bridge. If you seen a truck and trailer on the road hauling a couple bucks back then, you'd almost always see a few does on the trailer as well. Hunters shot the crap out of deer back then believing everything the dnr was saying about shoot more does.
The big deer party came to an end with the two back to back winters of 95-96 & 96-97 and has never fully recovered. Man did we ever have deep snow those years. I remember driving down the roads and you couldn't even see into the woods cause of such high snow banks. Deer season of 96 we seen 30% fewer deer than in 95 and then another 30% fewer again in the 97 season. Every year we kept a daily camp log of what we seen hunting. It was shocking but still way better numbers than what we have now. What was crazy is in the fall of 96 the DNR was still giving out large amounts of antlerless tags after we just lost 30% of the population. The dnr slowed down some in 97 but by 2000 were back at it giving out craps loads of antlerless tags and hunters gobbled them down. In the mid 2000 the deer population seemed to stall regardless if we had a mild winter or not. In the 2000's I started spending alot more time at camp, putting in food plots, feeders all the good stuff to attract the deer and no matter what we did we never got back to the numbers we'd had seen in our fields prior to 95.
Also in the 2000's hunters in camp starting seeing the sight of wolf tracks more often and every now and then a wolf itself while out hunting.
For 10+ years around 2000 the DNR protected the Coyote from being shot during the november rifle season. The DNR and NRC were too concerned hunters would shoot a wolf mistaking it for a coyote. Oddly enough for the past 10+ years it been legal again to shoot a coyote during deer season and no ones been making that mistake. When the dnr tells us hunters we have too many coyotes and they are the biggest contributing factor to fawn predation, just remember who protected them when the vast majority of hunters were afield every year and would have been happy to bag a coyote. I wonder how much coyote populations expanded due to the dnr not allowing them to be shot during rifle deer season?.
We will never get back to the deer numbers we used to have, it won't be allowed. As Chad Steward with the Mi DNR called them "Stake holders" Well there are too many "stake holders" at play now. Combined with years of mismanagement and continued mismanagement we'd be lucky if we could just maintain populations. However its showing we can't even keep the numbers at a stable level and this now is mainly due to the wolves having come on so strong.
There are many "Stake holders" that benefit from a low deer population and they hire lobbyist to rub shoulders with the politicians and donate to political campaigns to get what they want. Some of these "stake holders" love the fact we have wolves. Wolves can do what hunters can't and pick at the deer herd 24/7/365.
Farm bureau loves we have wolves. Less crop damage. Auto insurance industry, just in Michigan in 2022 it was estimated at 130 million in claims due to car deer accidents. Forestry/Timber industry, faster tree regeneration. Certified forest initiative.
Beef industry, control of food. Less free venison, have to buy more beef. It's always about the money, follow the money and you'll get your answers to why the deer herd is being allowed to evaporate. The exploding wolf population is a benefit to some "stakeholders"
What's also concerning is in 1996 we voted in Proposal G which is " To use the sound scientific management". It seems to me that the DNR has failed to live up to what we told them to do instead allowing "stakeholders" to guide them in making decisions regarding game in the state. Not only is our deer herd faltering but look at our moose population. In the 80's and 90's the goal was a huntable moose population of 2000 moose by year 2000. How cool would've a limited U.P. moose hunt have been? The wolves have set that back how far? Decades perhaps or worse yet we may lose that reintroduction effort all together because of the wolves.
Much is out of our control until elections come around. The director of the DNR is appointed. The NRC members are appointed. It matters who we allow to make those appointments for those positions.
Lastly, just because the DNR gives out lots antlerless tags it does not mean we hunters need to buy them or use them regardless of the populations numbers they feed us. By now we know the accuracy of their numbers they dished out over the years and it never seems to line up. The DNR has stated that Michigan has 1.8 to 2 million deer, they've been using this same number for the most part since the 90's. There's always some or multiple excuses being pushed as to low harvest numbers, too much snow, too warm, rut was over, too windy, to rainy, opener during the week, corn still up, too many acorns, full moon, deer are nocturnal because we bait, deer were nocturnal because we didn't bait, deer avoid bait piles now and deer have adapted to move less now because of wolves on the landscape. The deer season of 2024 is going to be really interesting for sure with such a mild winter this year. If the population is down again this year and we don't see fawns what excuse are they going to use this year. Maybe the deer had heat stroke over the winter.
It's obviously up to us to practice conservation now, the DNR has had years to get it right, to keep a balance and they've clearly failed and do not have the outdoorsman or the outdoor community as their priority "stakeholder".
Thanks for adding that in. Lots of stuff there for hunters to think about.
the deer population was out of balance before you were born. now it is at a natural level of homeostasis.
you have to be a talented hunter now. no more easy herd hunting.
@@bromethiustrilbotbromeldeh6625 baiting for deer isnt very "sporting" either. As for the moose they are falling prey to some virus that deer carry , but it doesnt effect them, but it kills moose. Just something to consider.
Non resident here. Hunting schoolcraft County since 1994. I have not seen an 8 pt. In 6 years. I mainly bow hunt but I see the decrease in deer numbers. It was so bad last year I just gave up. So sad I love the outdoors but management needs to change. I am not the only one not seeing deer.
@@primesspct2 As for baiting I don't care if people bait or not. I have done it both ways. I will say this, ALL of the big bucks I've shot have never come over bait. A mature 4,5 or 6 year old buck learns quickly bait piles are not natural. Big bucks will come into the "area" because they are attracted by the does hitting bait but they themselves will avoid the bait pile. A 3.5 y.o. is not a mature buck. Many hunters can't handle seeing so few deer without bait so they lean on the help of bait to see deer.
As for the moose, thats the brain worm you speak of, its been around forever. Prior to wolf population explosion, the moose numbers were steadily climbing even with the brainworm in play. That's an invalid argument to their population decline.
I’m in my 70s, originally from Michigan and I hunted many seasons in the UP. 50 years ago there were no wolves in the UP and few coyotes. The DNR championed the reintroduction of wolves against the residents wishes. After several attempts it seems to have worked. Although I love Michigan and the God’s country of the UP I left 30 years ago due to the deranged liberals that were destroying the state’s economy all around. I now live in South Carolina where sanity in government still exists, where wildlife abounds, the deer season is three months long and the first day of spring is always Groundhog Day.
I agree things aren't as good as they could be here.
We all need to be sure to vote to change this!
The Northern 1/3 of Wisconsin holds approximately 4,000 Wolves and the DNR says we have 1,000 to 1,200. I also hunt in Michigan between Ontonagon and Toivola, and from what we see I'd estimate there's at least 3 to 4,000 Wolves in the UP. I had 4 Wolves right up to my tent the opening day of the MI. Rifle hunt, and another member of our group had a Wolf follow him through the woods for 2 hours second day of season. Not too sure what happened to that one? The DNR in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan have been managing for predators since about 2000. We have a bunch of Anti hunters running our DNR in all 3 States. It's a crying shame whats happening. Vote Republican and get these Wolves off the Federal List. Every Wolf accounts for roughly 20 to 25 Deer per year. Calculate what the Deer per square mile used to be and realize each pack stays in a 25 to 40 Sq. Mile area respecting the next packs territory. The Wolves are running out of Deer to kill. I was a professional hunting guide and trapper for 30 years. By 2019 my lifelong business ended because I didn't have the inventory to support my business....not even close.
Awesome stuff, great idea!
vote republican and help overthrow the government. radical dimwit!
I agree with everything except the republican comment.
It's unfortunate that politics come into play that effect sound wildlife management.
S.S.S.
We used to have a good deer population around crystal falls and now the deer are next to extinction, cancel deer season and put on wolf season, the DNR has the wrong animal protected, the whitetails in the upper peninsula are getting the same stupid management as the ring neck pheasant got 40 and 50 year's ago to the present day, the sport is over
sad right?
The DNR isn’t protecting wolves. The feds are.
Deer dont exist to please humans, predator and prey always balance eventually
@@brucepoole8552 no kidding? I never realized that after hunting for over 50 years, bahaha, so your point is the wildlife manages itself? That'll all fine and dandy, so it will be fine and appropriate to cut 90%or 100% of the DNR buget, we don't need them, let mother nature take care of it, I bet that we would have just as much wildlife around then?
@@brucepoole8552 like the buffalo a century ago?
I got a hunting cabin near Rudyard and over the years the deer population has definitely dropped, we actually see more wolf signs than deer
sad
Bear hunted up around our camp near Trout Lake last year. Did not Deer hunt there the past 2 years. No Deer on any of our game cameras and no Deer tracks on over 12 miles of 2 track around camp. Lots of wolves on the cameras however. Some with collars some not. Im sure there are a great deal more then 600 wolves in the UP.
sucks
Not to mention coy-wolves which eventually will make it to my neck of the woods Ohio, where deer are still abundant,. I have lived here 35 years, when I moved here there were NO coyotes here, within the last 20 years their numbers have exploded. There are so many, even with open season year round on them.
Was just gonna say this. Just got back from trout lake and we saw at least 15. 600 must all live right around there 😂
Great job keeping the content coming in a tough Winter to do so Dave. The ice for fishing has been goofy, the crusty snow has made rabbit dogs struggle, and the lack of snow has made snow shoeing almost pointless. You and I both are used to our typical winter weather, and have planned our normal activities accordingly. When we get a curveball like this year every 12-15 years, it really throws a wrench in the works.
Yes it's been weird.
Maybe per county.
true
I have a camp in the middle of the upper. The deer herd has been going down for at least 10 yrs
true
Sharpest intellectual approach on this subject yet, without ruffling to many feathers (chickens). Nice work, hats off to you.
Thanks Greg!
Wow, I've seen every wolf in the UP then. All 600.
crazy right?
I remember when you did a few videos like this last year. I really enjoy them. Also there are many more than 600 wolf in the U.P. The DNR just seem to like that number for some reason. The DNR has a wolf trail cam set up close to where we hunt in Central Menominee County. If really like to see the pictures on that. Todd from da U.P.
cool, thanks
I've hunted the three lakes area
For many years. Last year our
Party of four saw one deer over
The first four days of rifle season. One of the guys has
A great video of wolf tracks
Following deer tracks down
His driveway.
Not good!
People should be practicing the 3 S' 😉🤫
Some are
A good friend of mine has been going to deer camp in the Watton, Sidnaw area for about 60 years. 2023 firearm is the first year he did not go, he went fishing instead. He said there are no deer in the area anymore. Wolves and bears were the only critters on his cameras.
sad
A timbershepard rescue sanctuary in MN says it takes 40 pounds of meat to feed a timbershepard for a week. 600 wolves X 40 pounds X 52 weeks= 1,248,000 pounds of meat. WI just did a survey and found only 47% of fawns live to see the gun deer season. Add killer winters to the mix. PS I grouse hunted all fall, I never saw a buck.
crazy
Plus in some counties up there you can’t shoot does so that kills all the bucks. Ridiculous.
I've been hunting the Sidnaw area since the early 90's. This year, 3 guys in camp hunted 17 days. We collectively saw 2 deer (probably the same one). I have four deer that don't go more than 100 yds from my cabin, and they're nocturnal and spooky (I've got them on multiple cell cameras in video mode). On 60 acres, I run 10 cameras. I only have occasional wolf pics, but several coyotes, which we shoot if we see them. I'll never stop hunting the U.P. but it is a real bummer right now. My guys are all newish to hunting and haven't gotten their first deer yet. I'm hoping they'll hang in there.
sad but true for many areas
That's really bad. Guy's need success to stick with it. Good luck and don't give up.
The deer act the same in Trout Creek. They just stay in town. I sometimes see them on front porches.
There's thousands of wolves aka,pos in Minnesota. If you need some let me know.
I hear you!
And here in the LP we have the second most deer of any state behind Texas. I see them everyday in suburban Detroit. Makes sense since we supposedly don’t have any wolves yet. But coywolves have been found in northern Michigan so some seem to have snuck down.
We have the bad winters too. Sometimes a lot of bears - they say they get a lot of fawns in the spring. Cougars and coyotes are all over the place.
The UP is officially 10.5 million acres. 600 wolves equals only one wolf per 17,500 acres. I live down in the Mountains of NC...but I'm following this wolf thing very closely. All I can say is "I don't freakin' think so!"
agree
Back in the day many folks headed to the UP to hunt deer. Now the numbers are so low many of the locals aren't even seeing deer and the traveling hunters have abandoned the idea of going. In the lower peninsula they handed out Doe tags like candy last year $20 a pop, up to 10 for state and federal land. We used to have to apply. It seems "some powers" are trying to remove the deer completely. At this rate they'll succeed soon
We need wolf seasons brought back to stabilize the population.
yes
I was in the UP back in 1992 and saw a wolf. I reported it to a ranger, and he said that I was mistaken and had seen a coyote. "There are no wolves in Michigan!" 🤓
Do they estimate them using the same method as deer population? Count droppings in a square area?
right!
I live in Iron County, Mi. Too many wolves up here. I have a few game cam’s out and I have a number of pictures of the same six deer. Six deer is insanely low for where I live!! Not one of my neighbors got a deer this past season. A very sad state of affairs. I haven’t gotten a picture of any wolves on my camera, but my neighbor has on his. You can hear them at night. There is a distinct difference between wolves howling and barking vs coyotes.
Time for a wolf season in the UP of Michigan!!
I think it might be!
Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin have 2 to 3 times the Wolves than what they admit to.
All the motel businesses, the bars, cafe's , gas stations and grocery stores have suffered for it. And for what? Kids have misssd out on a great tradition. Long time deer camps are gone. People have bought land and cabins for hunting and now they have no deer. And for what? All this public hunting land in northern Minnesota and no deer. So everyone hunts the southern half of the state. Very crowded.
And for what? This is so stupid
Agree
Hey Dave ya there’s way to many wolfs We have lots at our camp as well. I think they better put new batteries in there calculators cause there’s way more than the 600 they claim there is. Nice video
yes I agree
Jesus, use some proper grammar.
Wolves have knocked deer numbers down in Reston by our camp too. 100 years ago they trapped, shot,and poisoned they to get rid of them. The native Wolves were smaller. The land should be managed to best benefit man.
yes
I’ve seen a lot of the recent reports on RUclips and I’m wondering if that figure or those claims are an estimate per county.
yes
i talked to many deer hunters this past deer season and all saw wolves or lots of sign. lots of coyotes as well. my feeling is what is more important -a deer or a wolf. a wolf does not generate the $ that a deer does.
all true
Remove the deer
Discourage hunting
Remove the guns ?
I've spent quite a bit of time in the UP and there are deer all over the place.
Some areas do have plenty of deer. But I have a few friends that have a lot of wolves in the areas they hunt. One of those friends that consistently gets deer only saw wolve tracks and never even saw a deer last season. So no, the deer aren't gone, but having a pack of wolves in your hunting area can mess it up. But yes, we have a good huntable population of deer in most places.
Love the pics
thanks
I love knowing those kind of animals. Moose, Bears, Wolves, And so on live in the UP. It tells you you're in a special place. A place that can sustain that kind of wildlife if some place special. But, On the other hand some of these animals like the wolf needs to be put kept in check. I own a camp near iron river. And I witness the decimation of the deer herd. It's all but gone.
I agree, just some management.
That's 600; more than we want
They have been saying 600 for 15 yrs WTF? It’s the number DNR are stuck on because of the size of UP landmass? DNR is a Fkn joke! Chickens are the least of The worry! It’s deer an partridge an Rabbits!
yes
Thanks for another great vdeo. We're having a predator problem plus a lot of disease in our deer herds in WY
That stinks
Here in WI, CWD, been here 20yrs already. The DNR didn't help matters being so tight with doe permits for 40yrs. Now, fewer hunters, sick deer. So glad I hunted when I did, the friends and great experience.
@michaelsicowitz362
Encourage more predators. Predators remove the game. That will remove the hunters, then remove the guns. Simple 10 year plan
Then cows and pigs, turkeys, chickens all would be next. I know they like selling a licence and a freaking stamp for everything possible too@2770
People keep saying the Deer population is way down? I can only say I live in Ironwood on Business 2 literally on the edge of downtown. I can see the Train Depot from my house. I have a Spotlight camera on my garage deer are constantly in my yard. Along with some Fox and a bunch of feral cats even some chickens the neighbor owns that get out. I haven't seen Coyote or Wolves yet in over a year. I've seen Elk around Hurly. I think the deer population is probably higher they are just smart where to avoid.
It does seem like deer hang around people more than say 35 years ago. Maybe because of the predators?
I had a black bear tear thru my trash can last night...trash freakin everywhere...thanks yogi. Love living in the UP.
Yes, I've seen a few more bears this summer than usual.
Great show
thanks
Exactly!! I would say 600 in Marquette alone. I have never seen so much wolf sign
seems like it right!
They are even digging bears out of their dens this year
really
How do I see this for myself?
Wolf and bear populations everywhere need to be controlled. Northern Ontario deer and moose population has been devastated by those predators. Spring bear had been cancelled 25 years ago due to Toronto bleeding hearts that have never been north. When crops are ripening for harvest in my area of the north its not unusual to see up to 20 - 30 bears in a field eating destroying a farmers livelihood. Bears are omnivores, wolves on the other hand are not but both eat meat. Bleeding hearts many years ago destroyed the fur trade and wolf populations took off.
Thanks for adding that in.
I love those gloves. Theyre the best.
Yes!
Why isn’t there a wolf hunting season?
Government won't let it happen.
Supposedly govt.regulated.but basically weak,woke liberal politicians.
My camp is in western Alger county. Thick with wolves.
Not good right!
@KnettersPracticalOutdoors To have the Michigan DNR blame the deer numbers on anything but wolves, is utterly psychotic. I've seen the damage done on the elk in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.
Hunted 10days by ELO Michigan seen three deer. but on trail camera had 10 to 20 wolves every night. four different Hunters, four different areas
sad
Rather have lots of deer than wolves.
same
All animals have high and low cycles. Predator numbers follow the prey cycles. I live and hunt in the UP. In the last 3 years I have seen more deer and more wolves than before. I watched from my blind 3 wolves chasing a doe. They didn't get the doe it was healthy and strong. The wolves went the other way to find a sick, old weak deer. Wolves keep the deer healthy. Again, all animals have cycles up and down. Fact. The wolves are a must. I lived by Oscoda, MI in 1989. Five countries around there had deer with TB. Why? No wolves. Wolves can sense sickness, weakness.
good stuff
The deer were extinct in the lower peninsula for over 3/4 of a century, from bad management and predation, it wasn't until the wolves coyotes were eliminated and the humans harvest was managed the white tail came back to the lower peninsula, the reason for your TB problem started when the deer contracted it from the cattle herd in your area, which now have to be tested annually, the DNR results on the TB problem speaks for itself, the sport of deer hunting is going to die
@@robinflint6100 The wolves get blamed. I talk to guys and they say if they see a wolf they shot it in the stomach so it run off to die . Oscoda never blamed TB on cattle. Anyway, where I hunt there are less hunters now. Most hunter go to where alot of deer are seen all year. Last year I road two tracks for month and months. Saw 1 deer. That why most hunter go elsewhere. That's fine, more for us.
You say you have to have the wolves, and blame the deer getting TB from a cow as a reason for wolves, why then is the best deer population and healthiest population in southern Michigan where there isn't any wolves, that kinda blow's your whole story, plus you stated you rode around all season and saw one deer? Remember the white tail deer was extinct in the lower peninsula for going on 70 year's, so you can easily see it happening in the UP
@@robinflint6100 my dad lived just south of Lansing surrounded by farmland. We hunted there. We shot two deer that had to be thrown out because they had a green slime covering their meat probably from spraying crops with chemicals. Brain disease is another thing deer get down south. Lots of deer doesn't mean they are good for human consumption. I moved to the UP to get away from all the BS affecting deer "management" lies. They want people to buy license s healthy deer or not. Given a choice of eating a deer killed in the lower or the UP. I'll only eat the UP deer far away from farmers.
I have seen wolves near lake Ottawa
Makes a person speculate .Like who is being bought off.Car insurance companies have allot to gain.Politicians seem far less than honest.hmmm
Follow the money.
I give Chad stewart credit for trying to do interviews. But dnr biologists dont travel out of Lansing much. but, ibet 1000 to 1500 wolves. Shame UP is so forgot about in Lansing.
sad
2013 they said there were 650 or more????
LOL!
Tons of wolves. Count not accurate just based on declining deer. Ask any UP dairy farmer.
true
That 600 is just propaganda to try to keep the ya's and na's from fighting..
noted
From what I hear and read you'll need to take matters into your own hands. S.S.S. !!
some are
I am watching is video for an assignment😂
What is the assignment for?
It's pathetic what we've allowed happen to the U.P.
true
As a Menominee County resident, I’ve had wolves in my driveway and front yard. They even killed a deer in my backyard, and once attempted to kill my black lab. Yup, I love wolves.
crazy isn't it
Fk the Boot commercial!
ok
😂😂😂😂😂 Bullshit 600. I spent two years surrounded by a large pack in Bruce Crossing off North Baltimore road .
600 seems crazy
600 is plenty...to many
true
You look like you’ve lost some weight. The easy winter must’ve kept you active.
Finally someone noticed! LOL!
Yes in northern Wisconsin there are way more then 600 wolves .....but they are a historical part of the region, just need to keep the population in check.
yes
The DNR will not manage the wolves, so we will..END OF STORY
I sawq 3 wolves last year so there cant be 600. lol.
i know right?
#WolfNumbersEqualsMDNRBullshit
#LetsGoBrandon
Triple the 600 and you might be close
yes
Way more than 600.Lies for sure.evry time i go in the bush up there i see fresh tracks.Its a lot of wilderness.Dont compute in my head.
Has to be right?
Definitely a Wolf
Yes!
550 to many
true
Have you ever considered that deer are overpopulated? Stop using the boom years as a baseline.
I'm just saying it seems like more than 600 wolves in the U.P.
SSS
I hear you!
What eats a dead chicken in the woods, everything.
yes
Well, OK...Whatever! I will try and be kind because you seem like a great guy, which sort of comes from living in this magical place we call the UP. That being said there is nothing, and I do not mean a little of nothing, but a whole lot of nothing, about hanging a couple of dead chickens to a tree, and then seeing what comes and eats it, proving anything. If anything your data just proved that wolves do not kill anything, they just eat what is already dead. Not the point I think you were trying to make. And the reason why actual wildlife biologist do not listen to anything you all say.
I have a suggestion. Since you do know the woods, instead of fighting with people that know a whole lot more about biology than you do, invite them in, show them the woods, and work together.
There may well be the need for a wolf hunt in the UP, but the people that will make that decision are laughing at this video.
But otherwise I really did like the video.
Well, of course one wolf sighting doesn't mean anything other than there was at least one wolf in that particular area at that time. It's just my person experience that makes me think there must be more than 600 wolves in the U.P. One year I had 2 different wolves on camera at my house (these 2 wolves attacked my neighbors dog, he ran the wolves off himself as they were attacking. He reported it and the DNR investigated the attack sight and confirmed his story. It was in the news, but that's neither here nor there) and then at least one on camera at my camp 45 miles away. It just seems unlikely that out of 600 wolves I had 3 of them in the small fraction of the U.P. that I have cameras. If I put a camera up on my camp road, no bait, no chicken, no carcass, just a camera pointing down a 2 rut road, I'm just as likely to get a picture of a wolf as I am a bear. And there is estimated to be over 10,000 bears in the U.P. Almost 2,000 bears were harvested last bear season alone. So to me, and I could be wrong, but it just doesn't make sense that there is only 600 wolves. I do try to be helpful to the DNR in these matters. As I mentioned in the video I did register this sighting with the DNR. I had a collared wolf near my house a few years ago. LINK - ruclips.net/video/7biD7bUbWf0/видео.html I had pics and video of it and I sent them to the DNR. They informed me they had no knowledge of a collared wolf in that area. Of course they can't know about every wolf in the U.P. A few biologist doing some studies and getting some feedback of sightings. That's not much to go on and I'm sure they are doing the best they can. Figuring out the number of wolves in the U.P. is going to be a guess to some degree. I don't believe we should kill every wolf and I certainly don't fight with the DNR on these matters as you suggested (whether they are laughing at my video or not). I'm just suggesting that it seems like there is more than 600 wolves in the U.P. I do appreciate you commenting on the video, thanks.
@@KnettersPracticalOutdoors Well that was a reasoned and well measured reply, considering my comment was somewhere between angry and satirical. Actually, I think it was the title that set me off. Like there is someone on RUclips that is going to prove there are more than 600 wolves in the UP. I do personally agree with you, I do think there are more than 600 wolves in the UP. But that is just a personal opinion, a personal opinion shared by many. As to people "laughing at your video", the people that do make these decisions care only about data. Opinion and emotion are not data to them. And trail cams are revolutionizing the gathering of data. The harvest of white tail deer has declined every year for the past 35 years in the UP, so something is going on. The answer could be simple, like it could be the wolf. It could also be as simple as the environment has exceeded its carrying capacity, (this is after all the Northern limit of the white tail). But since I believe in systems theory, I believe the answer is complex. People that continually post comments that state "It's the wolf I know so because I have a trail cam", are not taken seriously. I commend you for stating "I don't believe we should kill every wolf", that is courageous because there are many out there that want to do just that. Once again, my opinion, the wolf has as much right to harvest a deer as we do, that is a badge I will proudly wear. But anyway, I did think the video was cool, more so because, on the 10th of March as I look out my window, there is not a drop of snow on the ground....And that is just not right in the UP!
@@WilliamEricStone All good stuff! Thanks for adding to the conversation.
@@KnettersPracticalOutdoors And I forgot to say, that anyone from the DNR saying they had no knowledge of a collared wolf in the area, while on the surface may be true, it is disingenuous. They know that collared wolves in Canada have traveled 1500 miles in less than a week
Yes your a wildlife biologist we get it your the experts, great job with the management of the ringneck pheasant in the lower peninsula, the same genius wildlife biologist that introduce autumn olive to the lower peninsula and now complain it invasive and out of control, you know where the most game is in Michigan? Where wildlife biologist have the least amount of control, results matter to people with a bit of common sense
The color pictures looks like 2 different wolves! The tail is different on one of them!
you might be right!
Chootem
!!!!
All bs
ok
Title on this video is very misleading. Do a better job with that
ok
Wolves are great for the ecosystem consider yourself lucky.
I don't have a problem with a few. Some form of management.
They need to regulate the amount of wolves! Once they kill the deer , moose , rabbits, coyotes etc what’s next? Dogs cats a possible child? If everyone on this post is seeing less and less deer then they are already creating a problem
They need to be managed
Davemindenont.wehavetomanyalso
sad