The Final Scope Level (Short Action Customs)
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- Опубликовано: 1 янв 2022
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The SAC Final Scope Level is a simple but precise tool that can yelp you mount scopes for precision rifle shooting, and help you prevent some of the frustration and issues that are common with this task.
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Just hang a plumb bob against a wall, mount your scope on the rifle. Clamp the rifle in a vice (soft jaws) and level it. Shine a good flashlight (torch for the British) through the scope from the objective end. The crosshair will project against the wall, and you can adjust it to the plumb bob string. Use the money saved to buy primers.
@Travis Fox Fortunately I have a memory, and remember 2008 when the politicians talked bad about the sport and components became scarce. So this cycle I loaded up on primers when they were cheap. Bought slowly so not to create a problem for others, but bought enough to last several years.
Or clamp The rifle in a vice. Check if its level. Mount The scope, check The level on scope. Done 5min job..
Find a perfectly flat point on a typical hunting rifle to ensure it is level. It can be a daunting task. AR platforms have the pic rail to do this from but your common bolt gun won't. With this system you can level any weaver base from the looks of it. Old Leupold bases or other 1 piece mounts for rifles that use a 700 clone action, this thing doesn't look like it would work. Gavin, show us this with other rings that aren't pic rail or weaver.
@@henrikm5604 A bubble / laser level will almost always be off. Use a plumb.
Your absolutely right. Who wants to spend that ridiculous amount of money (315 dollars) for their scope leveling kit and everything else that you will need that is sold separately, when you can buy a cheap plumb bob and vice from harbor freight that is just as reliable. Hmmm....I think I would rather spend the money on the cheap vice and plumb bob.
I made one of these years ago. I screwed a scope base to a piece of metal. Then welded nuts in 3 locations with 3 bolts for leveling. It works really well
Yep, I love SAP products, but this is silly and incomplete.
Why not do the same thing with the optic on the rifle using a gun vice like the ctk precision? Same 3 point leveling, take even more variables out, and probably save some money.
I use an adjustable parallel to align the bottom of the scope erector tube assembly to the top of the gun's scope rail, check against a plumb bob in the lab, range test.
Replace those bubble levels with mitatoyo digit angle gauges, for best results.
The simplest way I’ve seen to level a scope is using a wedge like the Arisaka leveling kit. It takes away the need to worry about leveling the rifle. Not only does it level your scope, but it also keeps it in place while torquing.
i was going to just say the same thing and its like 15$ vs hundreds of dollars
Only problem I have ran into with that kit is if the rings are low and the scope tube/turret area is too big to use the wedges. I’ve ran into that in the last few scopes I’ve mounted…..I’m going to have to come up with something and this maybe what I get…..not the kit but the main mount deal. Or just build something myself.
@Travis Fox …and assuming the receiver is dead nuts level. Ariska should only be used to expedite the leveling process. Just like a deck of cards, plumb line, and multiple levels. Saying the Arisaka does it, is like saying you are zeroed after using a laser boresighter.
@Travis Fox 90 % of scopes bases are level. so you are saying that the reticle is off of the base
99% of the eye cant see that. So you are say that a 0.001 margine would be a miss on a 12x20 target at 1000 yards
i think its being over thought just my 2 cents
i have shot clay pegions at 1000+ yards pretty consistently using a wedge tool. guess i don't see the benefits of a 200 scope leveling tool over a 12 dollar tool would love to see the comparison in difference between the to products
SPUHR provides a wedge to use to level as well as marks on top of rings to line up with mark on rear turret. Also use plumb line to make minor adjustments.
Ive got a gadget witha wedge and it levels off rail and flat bottom on scoipe.Does not matter if rifle is unlevel or upside doown.
How do you know the reticle is perfectly level with the flat spot of the scope?
Love the product, would now like to see you mount the scope to a rifle show your process for leveling the rifle and and mounitng the scope.
Coarse method taught at sniper school back when.
1 Find straight line on floor.
2 Devide butt plate perfectly on line.
3 Look into Obj lense and align vertical cross hair.
Later more precice.
Insert two matching wedges between scope mount and flat on bottom of scope. Slide wedges against each other until both scope and mount surfaces are parallel.
Current method.
1 Level rifle on pooltable. As mentioned in your vid, constant rechecking is necessary thru out process.
2 Project Dewalt framing laser onto wall.
3 Align vertical cross hair with laser.
4 Reconfirm level of rifle thru out ring torqueing process.
All methods have served me well thru out my life.
Side note. When zeroing I use a 4x4 sheet of cardboard. Once cardboard is secured into place at exact distance, I then take a level and marker and apply perfectly aligned grid lines onto target.
I zero vertical and horizontal components separately. Align the retical with the appropriate line and shoot/adjust until your impacts fall onto the line consistently. Then move onto the other component.
This allows you to use the entire length or hight of the retical to align with the grid line.
I find this to be a very easy and precise zero.
I use an electronic level. I clamp the rifle in the vise and set a zero reference to the rail. Install the scope and rotate until the scope reads zero also. Torque in proper sequence (always end on the opposite side of the scope than you started with cap screws) and verify zero (you can actually read the shift as you tighten the screws with a good electronic level and correct). This levels the scope to the rifle base. Next, hang the plumb bob and clamp the rifle so that the vertical cross hair is parallel or collinear with the plumb bob line and install the scope level indicator to read level. Once complete, the scope is leveled to the actual rifle base and the scope level indicator is leveled to the horizon using the plumb bob.
I have been using a plumb bob in front of a large white sheet of paper. Turn out the lights and use a flashlight. All this while the rifle is mounted in a vice with delrin V jaws. Works well for me. But I’m not switching scopes very often. I see this tool being handy for that purpose.
Thanks for the video!
This is great. I feel like I need to get one of these and re-level all of my scopes..
I level the action in a bench vise and then do the plumb bob trick across the room for the vertical crosshair. An old gunsmith who showed me pictures of him and Dieter Anschutz bowling together taught me this technique years ago. The gunsmith, “Doc” told the story of learning proper filing techniques while at Anschutz.
I made one of these for setting up the 2nd and 3rd axis on my archery sights.
I managed to get one of these on eBay for a good discount, only had it a few days, but really nice to be able to check all my scopes are level. What I will be most interested to try is get this bolted down to a sturdy bench and use it to test the tracking of my scopes, that is where I think this will shine........ but I may be wrong !!
Hey Guys
That’s a great little gadget , You now have everything perfectly tru and level to your bench , what happens when you mount the rings and scope to the rifle which maybe or may not be the same as the bench , Every rifle mount is generally different l must be missing something but wouldn’t it be easier to use the rifle mounting as a platform and true and level every thing from there rather than set the scope up on the bench remove it and then go through the same process again on the rifle, like I said maybe I’m missing something if I am please set me straight , Steve .
I level the rifle in the gun vise (x and y axis). The mount the scope in a leveled rifle and level the scope in the rings and cross check the rifle level to ensure both the rifle and mounted scope are level. I then cross check with a string and plumb bob. So far so good with this technique but one has to recheck the rifle in the vise as it could move off perfect level during the ring(s) or scope installation.
I agree, now that they have the scope perfectly in the rings, the rings need to be secured to the rifle. I’d want to check the level and plumb again on the rifle. So why not just do it all on the rifle from the start?
I bought one of these 3 years ago, best money I spent to know the scope it true to the earth…
That's a nice tool, but I can't help but wonder about the duplicability once you transfer the scope rings to the scope base mounted on a given rifle. Obviously there are manufacturing tolerances in scope bases, scope rings, & action mounting surfaces that could impact the accuracy of the final result. I have read that some actually bed their scope bases onto their actions. The plumb bob & a leveled rifle is what I use.
Great Report .
Thank You .
This is the best leveling system I’ve ever seen! Why didn’t I think of it?
Nice tool, you should be able to check the vertical tracking with it too.
Anyway I use a vice method similar to yours, except I shoot a laser level onto a wall across a dim room. Shine a bright light strait down the scope front to back. ( you probably will have to focus the eye piece to get a crisp shadow on the wall ).
Turn / rotate the scope as needed to superimpose the reticles shadow onto the lasers line.
I typically do this mounted on the gun ( clamp the chassis or upper }.
Level the gun from the pic rail or guide rails for the bolt using parallels on a bolt gun and work my way up.
If you have your gun, laser and the wall all aligned at 90* you optic will be square to your gun.
( It is alot less trouble to realign the laser than move the vice / gun / plumb bob )
( the retice projected can be several feet in height making it easy to see errors at the top / bottom of the projected
image )
Nice equipment thanks for the information and video.
My eye would think it was 1/2 degree out, but better than a moving bench stand. And better than anything I have done here.
I understand how it levels on the tool, but how does that translate to a rifle rail that may also be off axis?
I agree, it seems to be just a hair off, but I'm sure it's just for video purposes and they would be a bit more meticulous for an actual rifle. I think, at that point, it comes down to your own discretion. Like they said, they're constantly removing scopes and remounting them, so this is probably great for the projects they have going on. Very cool tool, and I see the merit, but, it's very subjective to the consumers' needs. I'm loving the innovation coming from the firearms industry.
EXD Vertical Reticle Instrument. Look it up. It's all you need. Forget level pic rails and such, the real deal is the reticle being perfectly vertical with the center of your bore. That is if you have a quality optic and the adjustment variation is minimal.
Beat me to it! Simple yet very effective even on MOA adjusted bases. I prefer a system on rifle and use it prior to a match just to ensure everything is plumb
🤮
I'm using that exact tool, is very nice
nice thanks!
Nice. The vice makes the process like a rock. I use a laser level instead of the plumb Bob and make sure it's a small amount off the reticle so you can see parallel better. Love the review. Thanks
Looks like a lot easier and more precise way to level a scope. I use line levels and have used a plump bob.
I use a steel rod held in place by a rubber band on top of the scope base. The steel rod is my referance line for my cross hairs. Been keeping it level for over 20 years. Quick easy and cheap.
I have been using an EXD Engineering Vertical Reticle Instrument for years with excellent results. All you need is a stable gun rest and a plum bob. Of interest as well are the Kokopelli scope ring alignment tools made by a very interesting guy in Kalispell MT
I just don't get all the scope leveling gadgets. This is really easy ... (1) Level the rifle in a rifle vise, (2) Mount the rings to the rifle and loosely mount the scope in the rings, (c) Draw a horizontal line on a wall behind the rifle, (4) Shine a bright flashlight through the scope from front to back, (5) Level the reticle projection to the horizontal wall line on the wall, (5) Tighten the rings carefully to maintain the reticle projection to the line on the wall. VOILA ... done ... perfectly leveled scope. And all it cost me was the pencil lead to draw the line on the wall behind the scope, and 5-minutes of flashlight battery power. I love SAC products and have a bunch of them, but this gadget just seems so unnecessary ... but maybe it's just "me" and it's actually a wonderful tool.
That's how I do it... But use an EXD to level and plum bob as a line. I get the muzzle to butt level close initially. Not really important thereafter.
Hardest part of that process is leveling the rifle. It is also possible for reticles to be canted in the scope.
First let’s make sure everyone understands that this is all about precision, long range rifle shooting. Now with that out of the way;
I wish someone in high-end optics would make a scope body with no flat surfaces anywhere on it! And domed turret caps! That way no one would be tempted to waste their time placing a level anywhere on the outside of the scope. And if your rifle has a round receiver then hopefully you won’t be tempted to have a flat surface machined into it somewhere so you can place a level on it!
The only level you need is the one you’re going to attach to the rifle, or scope, for shooting. That and your plumb line. For the minority that are still with me, and wish to understand, please read on;
The video left out the important part of the test, and the only test for which I could see any use for this new gizmo setup. After you’ve rotated the scope so the reticle is plumb, then center the crosshairs on the plumb line, next crank the elevation adjustment way up and way down to make sure the internal adjustments track (that the crosshairs remain centered on the plumb line as the elevation turret is rotated throughout its range).
“Leveling” the scope when it’s not attached to the rifle is irrelevant. You only use it when it’s attached to the rifle, OK, so lets work this from that standpoint. “Leveling” the top surface of a Picatinny rail is irrelevant also, and you’ll soon see why. All that really matters is that the scope’s internal >>adjustment vectors
I notice the one thing you bring up that almost nobody does, inducing cant. As you said, everyone holds their rifle differently. (There are no two exact same human bodies) We all induce cant. Honestly, I take more of the approach you describe for hunting rifles and thus far it seems to work rather well. I set my eye relief, set the rifle in a sled in my garage and "level" the reticle on a corner of my neighbor's garage across the street. (Yes, I've checked "level" on that particular corner. lol) I snug the scope down, check tracking, if that's good I torque it and go. Seems to work, I consistently hit out to 1,054 yards. (PRS style shooting mind you. I'm not a F class shooter)
Leveling the scope this accurately only makes sense if you are shooting beyond a few hundred yards. Also it’s more important to have a way to check your level when shooting .Just do the math in a ballistics app. At 2 degrees cant you are off 0.1 mrad ( 1 click) at 350 meters, which is 3.5 cm at that distance . If you are shooting at 100 yards ore meters your scope can be canted 8 degrees before you would notice it and could correct it ( 0.1 MRAD, 1 click, 1 cm)
I use the Wheeler scope mounting/leveling kit and also get my scopes sighted in with about 3 rounds because of it. For the price it’s on point. But I am thinking of getting this for my PRS stuff
Snap-on torque 1/4 drive and only snap-on bits. Blue mixture. Dewalt vertical and horizontal laser. Starett machinist level used for verification of laser and smaller starett machinst levels for scope body. Rifle mounted in hog saddle with custom machined vise attachment and cartridge style bore sight. Usually leaves shop and can be fueled in with 3 shots. Careful of the guys doing it at sporting good stores
First time i see one was few days ago phil velayo was using one i will be buying one
I use the wheeler scope level kit. Level the rifle and install the include level on the barrel to match the level on the scope base. I then use a plumb bob on the wall and shine a light into the front of the scope to project the reticle next to the string line. Constantly checking to make sure the level on the barrel is still correct. Then torque the bolts while continuing to check that everything is still level.
If the scope has a flat bottom, then you can just use a flat metal ruler between the scope and mount to flatten the scope to the mount. Just twist the ruler so you're creating a parallel between the scope and the mount and you're done. This would be so much closer to level than any small bubble level.
plumb bob on the wall and make sure its all perpendicular. just using the bubble on the matrix chassis to verify level.
Slick set up. I have their accessory kit but not the base. I usually run Sphur mounts with ZCO or Razor HDs. I set the gun on my Rodzilla which gets the gun very level and then use a laser level to line up the X on the reticle with the X on the laser (the laser level free floats so its alway correct). I use the plumb line to confirm and fine tune (rarely have to) - especially when torquing down the screws. Used to confirm with the EXD kit but it always matched so I stopped confirming. Thats a slick system too but Im just used to my laser level and plumb line method.
Yes that is what we have been waiting for so let’s set it aside and get to it later...good by
use rail mounted scopes you will never have to level again no rings either
Think it would be useful to see the reticle track along the plumb line and windage along a 4 foot level.
SAC makes killer products, but Badger's Dead Level stomps this. Excellent level in the unit, cheaper, and it works. Only extra thing you need is a plumb bob.
I use a plumb bob also to level my scopes.
I was just in the process of piecing together a fixture from commonly available parts to do this very task. Once again, somebody just beat me to it! I think this is the way to go. Other methods work, but this one seems to be fool proof!
I use a wheeler scope leveling kit. I was hoping you would have a reticle tracking test at the end of your leveling setup.
So I use the real avid scope level kit it's pretty nice and works really well
Check your scope is close to parallel to chamber that is elevation. But just bought arken scope with with a 2moa can't so no worries on parnell. Then hang a plumbob and level the retical and all is more perfect than any tool.
I stopped putting my scope level to my action. I level my bubble relative to my scope. I then place my rifle in my should pocket the way it wants to fit. So my rifle is not level but it sits nicely in my shoulder. Then I level the scope in the rings with the bubble. This helped me a lot wit recoil management. I stay on target a lot better.
One thing i never do is put a level on scope cap
If I was leveling/mounting scopes on a daily basis, this would be useful. There are several DIY applications that can be used as mentioned below that will give the same results. I would use the money saved to buy additional reloading components.
nightforce nxs, ctk vice leveled fore aft/side to side, plum bob hanging in bucket of water at 100yds. fat wrench, shoot to verify. Thanks for review.
So after using this tool how would you mount it to the rifle and set your eye Relief
You mentioned it briefly in the video, but what torque settings do you like for bases, rings, mounts? Different scope ring manufacturers have different torque recommendations.
I just use a level, grid paper, and a buddy to tighten em down. That way I can check eye relief.
Like others have said, I can’t see spending $200 on this... I also use a flashlight through the objective to project the reticle onto a plumb line on the wall. I do it while the scope is on the rifle and do a reverse bore sight on the same plumb line on the wall to make sure the plumbed reticle is over the bore, using the windage adjustment as needed.
That's fantastic! In reference to the rifle, what does this all mean? The holes that mount the rail to the receiver could be off as I have found several times.
Man this really brought out the COBs…. If y’all are all here talking about how you don’t need this, who is yelling at cars driving by?
My main question is how much variance there might be between different picatinny rails. Both rings might have lug contact when you have it on here, but you might remove them and put it on the rifle, and only have one of the scope rings making contact on the lug while it is mounted to the rifle....
Using built in wedge with the spuhr, I have a tangent theta in mine. But could you mount a optic in a spuhr with the wedge, lock it down then stick it in the SAC level and see if it’s on or off? I’d like to see that.
thoughts on setting eye relief, off gun?
Also, you have to watch those Starrett levels. I'm sure these guys tested it but they didn't mention you want to flip it 180° on a surface to make sure it reads the same. There are videos on how to do it.
That's best practice with any level but agreed as that is the cheapest level Starrett makes. One would think for nearly $300, they could include a level with better than 17-21 minutes sensitivity.
@@DodgeChrgr440 the one they are using is around $30. I have seen mixed reviews.
This^. Mine is also slightly off when swapped end-to-end.
Also be aware that most automatic laser levels intended for the construction trades are not accurate enough for this purpose.
i need to find a poormans channel.
kind of the same as a Barska bore sight kit...... using the sight picture to align the reticle.
Counter argument. A scope perfectly level does not do any good if mounting it to rifle gets say a 3 degree cant. It’s better to make it level to the bore. Concentric
Use a level right from avid
I honestly don’t know how shooters and hunters were even ever able to do it in years past. I’m amazed they were even ever able to hit anything.
Now I’m not saying it isn’t a useful tool. I’m simply saying I don’t know how anyone ever survived without it. Rolls 👀with the sarcasm.
@Gavintoobe What was the piece of flat machined steel you used to verify the level of the body at the end? How do I get one?
If u use 2 hex keys at same time on either side of mount, the scope wont twist in mounts
Flashlight method.. if you don’t know it look it up and it’s very easy and works great…
What distance did you have your plum bob hanging from the rifle and what camera lens and f/stop were you using? Looks like a good way to monitor your cross hairs while tightening the scope rings? Thank you ahead of time
where can o buy the wheeler tools reveal MOAB UT
Just put your vernier calipers under the scope and rotate them against the rail to line the two up.
Literally so easy, i don't know why people do all this Aspergers bs.
Thank you for sharing your research.
I find it amazing that sac can keep making cool toys out of metal but Lyman can’t even get the material to make a #19 bushing for their express trimmer. I love spending money on things I can’t use
How do you know your gun is level. Ive mounted rings and had them both read a different level. Ultimatley, you want your verticle reticle to be perfectly alighned with the center of the muzzel dont you? I often have the hardest time ensuring the actual gun is level itself. I suppose if you had a perfect bore sight, and that lined up with the plumb bob, and the crosshair lined up and then the reticle was plumb, then you have a perfect set up. Am I wrong?
Did you get any 4x shirts yet ?
12:25 there is a very apparent counter-clockwise bias.
Were can I buy this kit
What about eye relief before you tighten down ring screws?
@Travis Fox Thanks! Must have missed that!!
So are we assuming the rings are aligned and don’t need lapping?? Proper scope mounting includes making sure the scope doesn’t have any inadvertent tube pressure right…. The issue I see here is the receiver may not be 100% exactly the same as this tool which in turn could give issues once mounted on the receiver. The slightest variations in machining tolerances could be problematic. JMO. Cool tool but too many variables
Is it bad practice to put threadlock on the screws? For both the rings and the rail.
Nothing wrong with it just beware of using anything to strong, there are different levels of it and the high level stuff will make you hate life if you have to remove it in the future.
I have found out on my own, what you are doing is obsolete.
Any scope alignment tools are not needed.
Your phone is all you need.
The digital XYZ style axis sensor in your phone is much more accurate then any level you could afford.
Download a good level app with .1 degree accuracy.
Check your ground level.
Check your rifle level.
Level your scope to .1 degree.
Its another choice but doesnt look like anything Id use.Just another gadget.
Want to do a review on one of their rifles?
@Travis Fox just let me know how to make it happen.
I am looking for some great long range scope. Any tips?
@Travis Fox
300 rum for 800 to 1400 yards
I thought you guys were making something like this?
I get in lots of youtube comment section arguments with people when I tell them that you don't really need to level "the gun." The truly critical part is that the vertical crosshair is plumb when using it for holdovers at great distance (AND/OR the vertical crosshair MOVES in a plumb manner when cranking the turrets). People try to tell me that bore and crosshair can be misaligned if the scope isn't "levelled" with the rifle. They're correct, but the error THAT adds is minimal (if it were off by 0.1" -- which is a LOT, then a rifle sighted at 100 yards would be off 1 inch at 1000 yards). One famous shooter (David Tubbs) in fact likes to cant his rifle 5 degrees, for a more comfortable hold -- but as long as his level bubble says that his vertical crosshair is plumb, all is well, even at great distance. The way I prep is to make absolutely certain that my scope-mounted bubble level is correct vs plumb vertical crosshair, and then I just mount the scope so that I'm COMFORTABLE when the bubble level shows level. I don't care whether or not the rifle mounting rail is level in that position (within reason, of course).
$200 for the level tool, then another $60 for a $2 bubble level, a $1 caribiner and some string? Pass. As many of the comments below state, there are easier, and far less expensive ways, to level a scope.
Not useful for me as I have a Remington 700 style action (Howa mini action) with direct mount rings.
Hate to be that guy, but you have a misspelling in the description, you have yelp instead of help. I know how you guys seek perfection!
This method works great assuming that your bases are mounted level and square to the bore on your rifle.
I level my scopes to the base mounted on the rifle.
Nice but no thanks, I've been leveling scope for over forty years with a gun vise or a leveled gun rest and a plumb line,
haven't been disappointed thus far............
what scope level was that on the scope?
Lone Star
My preference is Accurate 1st
L'optique n'a pas besoin d'être parfaitement aligné avec l'arme. Mais on doit tirer avec le réticule parfaitement au niveau, peu importe si l'arme est légèrement penchée pour ce faire.
Haven't had a chance to test if it holds zero, but mounts just fine and has nice clear glass. Centered vertically true to a plumb line with the crosshairs which is always a plus!It's a great ruclips.net/user/postUgkxc4K63Fd5LglDMObu7-Bgapxp_ef0W8hE scope. There's no parallax adjustment or focus ring, so may be limited to 3-7x, have to see how it is on the range. Also be aware that the rings are "look through" so you can still use irons, but they are really tall if you only intend to use the optics. On a 22LR no biggie since I'm not shooting competitions or worried about a hard cheek press. Will boresight and range test, if all goes well, I'll leave it at that!
Gavin, very disappointed you NEVER REVERSED THE LEVEL as they have errors in them and by reversing the level you half any error. Ask any good builder as they will check their level by that method...
What’s something like that cost?
200$
$260 and you couldn't machine slots to install your own vials? The biggest problem would be hoaw do you know if the scope is Square with the action? Your going to have to do this all over again with the scope mounted on the gun.
What if the dovetails on the action are just a little bit off causing the Rings to realign to the action when you put the scope back on?
What if the picatinny rail mounting screws are a little bit out of alignment on the action/ Barrel warping the rail ever so slightly when they're tighten down?
If you have a one piece monolithic scope mount you can do it on a kitchen table with a spare piece of picatinny rail don't even need to level the table. Just make sure the bubble goes to the same spot on the scope as it does on the table.
But the only way to accurately do this is to get the scopes elevation squared to the gun itself.
This product is the equivalent of reinventing the wheel without an axel hole.
Sure it rolls but you can't put it on anything.