WATCH MORE - The Blind Side movie has stirred up controversy recently for its portrayal of real life events. So what's the scoop? Heres our TAKE: ruclips.net/video/bvCO-D23g2I/видео.html
The part that broke me was when he was on the roof with his son and he smoked weed for the first time. When he started crying because he wasn't sure if they were bonding or creating a bad memory, it tore me to shreds.
Another layer to the relationship between Mary and Vili that is not mentioned is race. Mary is a blonde hair white American woman, Vili is a native brown Samoan man. Although Vili was the innocent minor in the situation he was accused of being the cause for Mary’s sexual advances, which is what Jim Crow laws used to justify beating, lynching and burning black men just for making eye contact white women. If the tables were turned and this had be a non-white man making sexual advances to a white girl there would not have been a reduced sentence nor would the white girl had been blamed for the statutory rape. I noticed most Mary’s students were white, she was selective on who she preyed on.
yep she went after this kid from a troubled home because she probably thought she wouldnt be caught so easily. if she went after one of the white kids she would be convicted so fast and so easily and be shown no leniency
I totally agreed, so sick of women always. Doing something like this. If a male teacher have done that, to his 12-year-old female student. That man will never see the light of day and be called a rapist and a sick pervert.
More conversations need to be had surrounding young boys being violated. Too often I’m hearing “oh my first time was when I was 9, 11, etc by my babysitter” or any other girl they were in close proximity to. This is not cool, it is flat out r*pe!!!
True. My male friends way too often told me they lost their virginity at 13-15 to women who were 20-25 or something like that. Like that's really common.
@@DanaJaneWriterThat is so messed up. I feel so bad for the young male victims of this assault. It's honestly so disgusting and abusive my heart breaks.
I was 13 when I got inappropriately touched by a woman. She passed by me, but not before she bent to touch my backside. She gave me the 🤫 gesture afterwards after I waved bye at her. Mild compared to others' cases, but still could've went further if we were alone. This was in a Circuit City in 2008, in Bossier City. She was an employee, I was at the gaming aisle waiting for my parents to return something or whatever. I wanted to see her again after that. I finally told my mom about this about a year ago. It was somewhat repressed, partly because, at the time, absolutely no series/movie/PSA and nobody specifically taught me it was wrong for women to make sexual advancements towards the underaged, just men. Let alone little kids, as I was a small 13 year old, not these steroid-kids like today. I've encountered some women and men whom, in discussions, try to convince me to not take this topic seriously, as if to protect predatory women, even though we have no idea how common they are behind unreliable numbers. This only made me more intent on uncovering more and using me being prey of a creepy woman as a drive to keep pushing. Especially with some projects I'm writing in which characters tackle that in ways we've never watched before, but all inspired by real cases. I hope to produce them independently.
I do feel extremely sorry for young boys caught in situations like this. And when it comes to Vili, I know he has to be dealing with some complicated feelings when it comes to the trauma-bonding from that "relationship".
Plus what the media did to him was even worse. If they had any ethics they would have protected a child or adolescent victim instead of exploiting him.
@@FleurPillager10000% it was just as violating as what the teacher did to him. This fetish of hot teacher and school boy being played out in the media. Disgusting
The victim shaming Vili went through is horriifying, per usual survivors of sex abuse are never treated fairly. Mary Kay is a vile evil nasty person, there was something inherently sick about her, she should have been behind bars for life. Us as a society need to keep kids safer!!!
@@Aaron-MackHartfordbrock turner didn't even get 3 months as he was a "promising young man", it's not consistent whether a rapist will be held accountable, but yes i agree a woman is less likely to get a sentence
I've never heard of this case and it's absolutely devastating. Nobody protected this boy. The fact that the abuse continued even after she was sentenced, and the fact that they got married... So much of his life was stolen from him
she was just the worst woman ever 😭 julianne was so good at being awful 😄 the actor playing the father /victim deserves an oscar! he floored me. made me sob. this movie is really well made in terms of showing the aftermath of such a situation , having to stay with your gr00mer. you could physically see he was carrying it all in his entire body. he was AMAZING. it also was so disgusting how natalie's character would say that the kid they cast as him, wasn't s3xy enough. like he is a KID he is not supposed to be. and she even manipulated him to sleep with her. knowing full well he would like sneaking around, cause that's sort of the trauma loop he is already in. it was very gross. but si truthful to how people are. it breaks your heart.
I watched the film and I was so angry, disgusted, and saddened. I don’t understand how people can be so self-satisfied and smug while abusing and taking advantage of the vulnerable. Just horrifying. Makes me think twice about having kids of my own!
In 2021 there was this celebrated film called Licorice Pizza, and while it didn't have the "teacher" it did have an inappropriate relationship with a 15 year old and a 26-28 year old woman. And they made this relationship to be okay because she was emotionally immature mess, and he had his own business. I watched it and thought it was so gross, why wondered why they were romanticizing this? This movie got 3 Academy award nods including Picture and Director and I was mystified why people thought this was a good movie. Probably cuz it was Paul Thomas Anderson. SMH.
The only defense I can get Riverdale for this is that Grundy absolutely does get comeuppance for this, by being fucking murdered, in the next season. However, it’s done more for shock and plot than it is to be like “yeah don’t diddle kids pls” like it should have been.
I have read a lot about Letourneau. I think it is clear that both of them cared about each other, but it wasnt a healthy relationship. I am deeply shocked that society left him as a single dad of 2 with No support as a teenager. They really failed him
I wish the video spoke more about the racial elements at play here. Black and Hispanic boys in America are often treated (and tried in court) as adults. Porn often has the cuck as an older white man and much younger fitter black man. This over sexualisation of men of colour to portray them as animalistic, sexual, savage, dangerous all plays into why white women in these situations get let off the hook even more.
I watched in theaters a french movie called "le consentement" it is such a powerful movie because you see all the abuse very clearly as a spectator of the "love story" between a 14 year old girl and a very famous french Author. The story is based on a book wrote by Vanessa Springora who was a victim of Gabriel Matzneff. Everyone knew about Matzneff's pedocriminal actions and nothing happened to him. He is still free today and has support.
see now imagine if the roles were reversed, if a 34-36 year old man had an affair with a girl who is in the 7th grade, it would be a WHOLE different story. And she is over here saying "I didn't think it was a felony, but I knew it wasn't right", like it is not just a felony but that's literally sexual assault and pedophilia.
This is so sickening for multiple reasons. The trope is gross because it makes this abuse look attractive & "cool." Also, in a way, it's both kind of misogynistic & toxic to boys/men. To think that grown women are "so weak" that a 14yr old can seduce & abuse the adult is beyond disgusting. Adults know the lines & laws, regardless of gender. *If you as a teacher feel attracted to a child in your class, please quit teaching & get therapy ASAP! It is not right or natural.* A child is a child & cannot make those decisions. MKL was a teacher, than she wants to play naive that she didn't know sexual abuse of a child was a felony is just absurd. We cannot keep candy coating female abusers.
If you watch those interviews with Letourneau, she gets a bit huffy at one point and repeatedly queries Vili like a machine gun, “WHO was the boss?” She does it as though to sway that he was the one in control, the one who initiated and she was merely reciprocating his advances. Somewhere in her brain she didnt seem to realize that a 12 year old CHILD cannot give consent, even if he makes the “first move.” Some kids are sexualized prematurely and if they make such a move, it is a red flag. It is something an adult should see as a warning sign of potential abuse at home (or elsewhere), something they should gently and kindly dissuade and then something where they must seek help for that child.
Really good analysis. I see so many people commenting on this movie who didn’t understand the point. Everyone should have to watch your video after seeing it.
This is a story of both how the movie industry exploits real events without even talking to victims (Dahmer is a good example of this) and an example of an Abuser vs Victim dynamic. First time I've seen a boy/man being the victim of rape perpetrated by a woman I swear this film is a good double feature for the movie Happiness with Todd Solonz . This film MUST be seen by men who believe the phrase "women can't rape men" . Just cuz they can't penetrate dosent mean they can't violate.
I've heard enough male friends' stories on their first s*xual experience and they're almost always with a much older woman. They talked about it as if it was nothing but I felt devastated. We must protect our kids, boys and girls, from all types of predators. I just watched the movie and you could see how manipulative Julianne Moore's character is. The movie did show how this thing could ruin a bunch of people's lives. I hope the real boy and his kids stay strong, and their society doesn't shame them but instead protects them.
These types of crimes happen in enabling environments, like at schools and disfunctional communities. When Fualaau's family sued the school for failing to protect him they lost. The court basically said she was guilty but he wasn't really a victim. This story was always all about her and her pretty face and childish mannner. Just like her, the court understood it was 'wrong' but didnt see much of a crime. She wasn't unusual, she was a product of her family and her community and the times. If anything, she must have been a little wilder than the average though
@The Take I work with autistic high school kids in an integrated highschool. I am very mindful of how I look or tease certain kids. What is nice can be interpreted as flirting. Also I've had MORE experiences with realizing teen girls were crushing on me more than wanting to talk about other boys. Honestly I never connected with the younger guy thing. It felt wrong when I dated someone my nieces age once. She told me she was uncomfortable with it and that was that.
I object to the clip from arrested development being used in this video! Lindsay was talking about the teacher becoming his stepmom! She thought he wanted a mom figure. She wasnt encouraging him to "go for it" with her!
She is saying she didn’t know that it was a felony or crime. If that is her excuse, how the heck did she have a job teaching children at all?!?! It would have been her duty to report to the Principal at the school she worked at any interactions she considered concerning between her students and the adults in the students lives. Was she turning a blind eye to things?
And how would she feel, if that happened to her own child. Like how she did that to her 12-year-old student. Because she had a child the same age, around her 12-year-old student.
I just don't understand Hollyweird. "Let's make a movie and get some money for showing how toxic it is that people want to be entertained by this thing we're making a film about."
I may be a weirdo, but I really hated this movie. Maybe because of where I live, the case was in my face. It was a tragedy. Re the film. I didn't find it funny at all either. Re the film -- I know the actors are excellent but I was floored they were even into being in it. It just lacked taste.. I know Haynes has made controversial films, but this one -- it just doesn't deserve the props it's getting. Shocked it got nominated for a golden globe. It just abuses Fulau even more and that is just grotesque. Plus MKL's adult kids have to see all the crap around the film too. It is awful.
I do think though that more and more younger generations are seeing victims of abuse and grooming as genderless. I think most people under the age of 40 understand and would be as outraged no matter the sex of rhe victim. Sadly they're not the ones in charge of the courts or in law enforcement
This is like Yang Hyun Suk and Lee Eunjoo's relationship. Yang first caught a glimpse of her on TV when she was 12 years old ( and proceeded to keep lying about how old she was by aging her up when evidence of the relationship timeline is proven) when her famous older brother named Lee Jaejin of SECHSKIES in the first generation of Kpop was doing a house tour back in the early 2000s and started grooming her at 15 by promising her a musical career and sabotaged it when she was 20. Then he confessed his feelings for her when she 22 or 23? According to YG, she was his type "small, cute, and *young*" so he had motivations to marry her after from the start by purposely ignoring her group, Swi.T, waited until she was grown enough to marry her and right after her parents died. Even Yang apologized to her for "making her uncomfortable after all these years" as if that makes it any better and said she is free to take his kids with her on a variety TV show. So Yang was already self-aware how much he ruined her life.
Also her children with Vili. Imagine being the product of that and actually being raised by her and told what she did was okay because "love" and because the 12 year pursued her 😢
@@propogandalf for sure! The kids in this are the victims. And the reasoning 'they were in love' is disgusting. If she was SOOOOOOOO in love with this child why couldn't she wait? Is your 'love' so flimsy that waiting for the actual age of consent and for you to be single is unthinkable. Just gross.
@@dietdrpepper15 In reality it's because she wanted someone she can manipulate and control, not someone with a fully developed brain that realized she was a loser and that he had better, healthier age-appropriate options.
This child/man was failed by everyone, his family, school and police. They should have got him right into intensive therapy so the the woman could not get her fangs in to him.
his family sued the school district! and they LOST!! I literally cannot wrap my head around it. I feel like we're missing out on the racial dynamics too tbh
Exactly! Send him out to an aunt’s or grandma outside of that town because there were obviously people helping them reach each other . what other way could they communicate with each other in the 90’s!
she was a predator and chose someone who didn't have that support system even just being surrounded by people who know it's wrong can help but you see whole communities enable or start a witch hunt against the victim
The tv trope is SO harmful because the “boy” is often portrayed by a full grown man. So often 16, 15, 14 year olds are played by man in their mid twenties. It masks the fact that in real life these victims are actual children who LOOK like actual children. The whole thing is even more disgusting than it seems
To give additional context, Vili is about to be a grandpa at 40 - but that's because his and Mary Kay's youngest, Georgia, is 24 and has been in a serious relationship for six years. Mary Kay really did steal Vili's youth from him.
What I liked about the film was that I felt that we, as the audience, were meant to believe that Natalie Portman's character was an A-list actress and this movie she was about to star in was supposed to be this deepdive into the psyche of Gracie, and then in the end it turns out it was just another shallow capitalization of the story.
I feel like in the closing scene she couldn’t get the scene right, because of the last conversation she had with Gracie about her brothers and also because she realized she was playing a pedophile and it just all felt gross and insane.
Yup. That was the point. Noticed how overly sexual that scene was? It was just another gross movie about a gross criminal. Just like the movies about serial killers.
@@Purplenpinkk me too. it reminded me of the dahmer series debacle. Yknow how no one in the producer team asked the victims or their families about the mediatization of the hardships and trauma they had to go through because of dahmer yet they still filmed it just for profit. because true crime sells. some people compare these fictional media based on real people to documentaries but they fail to understand how different they are. a documentary is not just letting people give CONSENT and real interviews but documentaries are not fictional either. it's not a reimagined version of a real event
There are so many men that have been abused by older women and because society frames it as “a win for a teenage boy.” Comedians make the joke “that they wish it was them” We as a society really need to change the narrative that it’s never ok for a teenager to have sexual relationships with an adult.
Yes you are right a teenager should never have a consensual sexual relationship with an adult I think society are focusing on age of consent because they will say that age of consent is 15 to 16 but normally it's supposed to be 18 with a young teenager that is is reaching maturity but sometimes I have realized the law doesn't always make sense age of consent is 15 but why not 18 because it is Young and society is very hypocritical when it's about age of consent
Males also do it it's sickening since they cry about men's mental health so ehy the hell do those who cry about men's mental health do athat as a win and blame society wen it's them not saying it's okay but I think men are their own worst enemy and oaf course predators women who take advantage of little boys sickening and gross and dose also need to be talked about it's sickening
@@yusukeGum If you notice the states with the lowest age of consent usually has the most rape/sexual crimes and many ppl in power are usually dating or with underaged girls. Plus around 15 and 16 ur more likely to get manipulated into thinking these types of relationships are ok.
Half of the comments have no identifying name or picture and you're simply assuming the sex of the person commenting. A man with half a brain would think the same thing. Wtf is even your issue here? Do you hate to see how women hold other woman accountable while men rarely do? It's just weird, and if you don't think that adults having sex with kids is morally repugnant then you know what that makes you.
I was surprised they didn’t mention this too, it’s such a good representation of the effects of sexual abuse on young men. I remember the episode where he’s in college and tells a girl he’s dating about his relationship with his teacher and she says “wow, so you were abused” and he kind of balks. It turns his entire world upside down, he couldn’t consent to that relationship and it kind of ruined his life, but because she was a hot young female teacher he didn’t feel like he could talk about the negative aspects because that dynamic is so fetishized.
Mary Kay Letourneau, like most predators, fixated on a child who was already going through an unstable and chaotic childhood at home. This is like a siren call for these people, they start by grooming children who are neglected under the guise of ‘helping’ them but really setting them up to be compliant to their disgusting ways. It’s reprehensible no matter how you look at it. There is nothing redeemable about her or predators like her.
I watched in horror how in one interview MKL turned to Villi and asked him, "Who was boss back then? Who was the boss?" as she clearly tried to shift blame to him. In a more candid moment during that same interview when he is alone, he admits that he wanted his 2 daughters to have 2 parents which is why he married her. MKL already had 4 children (1 the same age as Villi) meaning that she ended up victimizing 7 children due to her sick fantasies
I commented on that, too. It’s such a chilling point in the interview the way she rapid fires it at him repeatedly. He becomes so uncomfortable, too. It’s awful.
Same!! They're immature, they're a little gross, they are often so innocent and lost. It makes me sick to my stomach that anyone would engage with children that way.
@@basicradical3581 I think that when it comes to fiction (definitely NOT reality) people write these stories most of the time because they try to remember themselves as teens. I thought that at 16-18 I was basically an adult! So my first day of teaching high school I was *shocked* at how they were nowhere near being adults... Most people after high school have no opportunity to interact with teens until they have children, so they don't get this cold shower of "Oh...you're not an adult until 27!"
I was groomed as a 15 year old by a 36 year old man, I really didn't know what affects it would have on me as a grown up. For several years you believe there are no effects, I also convinced myself that it was not that strange and that love knows no bounds. Now that I am 36 years old, reflecting back on my past....I can see how wrong it was and without the right support and therapy it can cause oneself to create resentment, guilt, and isolation. The part about stunting your developmental growth I believe is true. I had to grow up very fast but at the same time I can recognize in myself that I do not have the same emotional intelligence that one would expect at my age. When I tried to talk about the past with the man, now 57,, he always told me it was my fault and that I didn't have a problem with it at the time, but now as a grown woman I could never see myself doing the same thing to a 15 year old child. Anyways, the stories that surround this topic make me think a lot and I am a firm believer that the power dynamics are a very valid issue in these type of relationships, complicated in nature, and leave lasting impacts in people's lives, sometimes impacts that aren't fully felt or understand until a decade later.
I feel like society was way too easy on this woman. They looked at her like she was mentally ill, and there was something wrong with her in her head but if it was a man, she would’ve been in jail for the rest of her life, I mean, it’s obvious that when it comes to men being exploited sexually, they’re always overlooked.
I agree with you on the first part, society was wayyy too easy on this creepy predatory woman! However, one quick look at the statistics assures us that men usually also don't go to prison for life when commiting such crimes.
@@konpulsiv I don’t think he would’ve been put in Jail for life, but there would’ve definitely been more of a side eye and jeering attitudes. They definitely treated Letourneau like a little wounded bird more than anything.
@@konpulsiv There are several countries in which women literally cannot be charged with rape, and across the board receive more lenient treatment in the criminal justice system, so female predators are absolutely flying under the radar and getting away with it more by comparison.
"Published...only in France" with a deep voice to show the DEEP irony that of course only in France would this book be published and promoted is - fantastic.
@capucnechaussonpassion14 Did I miss something beneath the uptight American view on how we as Europeans especially the French are dealing with our/ their sexuality? Almost everything sex related seems to be perverted in the US so no surprise that they assume child abuse is supposed to to be viewed as normal in europe.
@@mibri8552 We have a rape culture problem in France, as well as incest especially in créative elites classes that are treated as "romantique" and seen as part of the french charm. France is the unofficial haven for rapists and nonces of all sorts, Kevin Spacey, Polanski. Famous writers whole serial abusers and groomers who brag about It live on TV (Gabriel Matzneff), Duhamel who abused his step kids, PPDA who raped multiple internes under TF1 cover, Morandini who sexually coerced over 20 young boys, only to get 1 year probatory. Hell our interior minister is twice accused of rape and our president Macron, was by all accounts, groomed by the first lady(He was 15, She was 40). Nothing changed, people are speaking UP more. Américain puritanisme is the opposite side of french laissez faire.
There are also quite a few French movies on minor - adult relationships, even incestuous ones ("Beau Père" for example). I'm not saying this kind of thing is seen as acceptable in France but they sure love to explore the taboo subjects. Oh and the president married his former teacher hahahaha
He was 8 years old when she first taught him in year 2. She may have been grooming him earlier than he even realised. They say that paedophiles often see something lacking in the child missing some affection or attention. He may have been even more vulnerable than his peers.
not to mention him being a person of color too. the racial aspect of the situation along with him being male makes it disgustingly easier for people to deny his victimhood
I'm not gonna lie - when I was a young boy, in high school, I would fantasize about sleeping with my hot female history teacher. But as an older man, with a family, and who even teaches, looking back I'm thankful nothing like that happened. There's absolutely NO way a teenage boy can even begin to understand the psychological consequences of such a thing, or handle the responsibility of an adult sexual/emotional relationship. Hell, we're still too stupid at that age to understand consequences, period.
A teacher did a really great job showing the longterm effects of older female to young male abuse. We see fully the immaturity of the character in their sex lives, the effects on his relationships with intimacy, the way he is fetishized by other girls and boys because of it, and the longterm trauma it took on his adult life.
The trope is both mysandrist and mysogynistic. Its mysandrist because it refuses boys and men who experience this victimhood and innocents, its mysogynistic because it treats women like clueless children, unable to discern right from wrong. Whats also interesting is youd expect women to be writers of this trope, but its usually men. Most in the past men that hadnt experienced this seem to romatizise this behavior. That, thankfully has changed but I find mostly men defending this behavior. Its the lack of empathy and this loyalty to the patriarchy, where sex is about power and a male ALWAYS is the one with power. Theres no intersectional analyisis being made. Grown adults need to leave children be, its just that simple.
Wow BINGO. Let me add, it's also abused men who refused to admit they are f*cked up/victims from the situation, so they push the trope that he wanted it/he was horny/she was vulnerable/submissive to attempt to empower and gain control of their abuse. Men seem to fall apart a lot worse then we do if sexually abused, from my personal experience(via work) and knowledge (research). Women generally thrive under victimhood (fat shaming, sexism, gender pay gap etc) and there's this unsaid rule in a society that refuses to hold us accountable for ANYTHING we do; it's ALWAYS the mans fault. Men generally thrive under survivor-hood (Owns it, Fought back, Take no prisoners, Gets his own way to the top etc) and there's this unsaid rule in a society that refuses to empathise with men if they FAIL; he didn't step up to the plate as a husband or he couldn't hack the pressure so he went bankrupt. It's a vicious circle because we're fighting the human action to be compassionate to each other with political point scoring.
My sister was friends with Mary Kay and my niece was friends with her daughters with Vili Fualaau. My sister said she didn't want to hear anything bad against her and I thought to myself "You're an idiot!". She's also an Anti-vaxxer. My sister and I are not close.
I think she was very manipulative and took great care on how she looked from the outside. In the footage of hers, shown in this video, she always seems very charming (in the interviews). Your sister fell for her. (I'm not defending your sister, tho)
Early in the series Buffy The Vampire Slayer, there's an episode called "Teacher's Pet" where a highly seductive teacher is constantly flirting with Xander. When Buffy challenges what's going on, Xander accuses her of jealousy. He accepts "Ms French's" invitation to her house for drinks. Being BTVS, "Ms French" is a kind of succubus who, in order to procreate, selects virgins to mate with, but she becomes a giant preying mantis who decapitates her stud once she gets what she needs. However, the story does frame the teacher-student relationship as one with boundaries that shouldn't be crossed. The fact that "Ms French" (I use quite marks because the monster is using the identity of an actual teacher, albeit one who is much older than "Ms French") seduces virgins is part of the lesson for the audience.
Yeah, it felt a bit weird to have the Buffy clips sprinkled in there alongside Dawson's Creek and Riverdale. The whole point of that episode was that the seductive teacher is someone who preys on and victimizes young boys, and it came out in what, 1998?
There was a really good episode of the podcast "This is Really Happening" that dealt with a young boy being abused by his babysitter at a young age. It was horrible and you really understood how badly it hurt and traumatized him. I wish more people would understand how harmful this kind of sexual abuse can be for children. Also Pop Culture Detective did a really great episode more broadly on male rape played for laughs. It's the same idea that we should question why Hollywood makes light of sexual abuse against men.
Poor guy. He never stood a chance. It’s so hard to leave abusers when you’re so young I feel so bad that he was bullied, and that he was continuously, abused in his adult life with her.
not just the over sexualisation of boys but also infantalisation of grown women is the reason why the accountability isnt fully put on the female adult.... seeing women as emotional creatures while men as logical and if he is logical and wanted it then it must be justified
I hate that they called it "May December" which is usually a name for an age gap relationship. A legit age gap RELATIONSHIP, not the rape of a minor by an adult woman...😢
I think a theory worth mentioning (I haven’t seen it in the comments already) is that May December is to represent two things. 1st it’s original meaning of a romantic relationship between two with a big age gap, BUT ALSO to point out the age gap between Gracie and Portman’s character. Gracie is at the “winter age” and Portman is at the “spring age”… but they are one and the same. I think the real shadowing here is that Portman is the early stage of being like Gracie. You can see this in the way she describes getting off during sex scenes and then her fully diving into the final scene with the young boy. You can see her try to do her makeup like Gracie. When she is walking through the school you can see her blushing at the teenagers and thinking she is their center of attention. Portmans character is the spring to Gracie’s winter..
I’ve had to explain to so many men that they were abused by teachers, babysitters,etc. They truly believe that they were in control and were “that dude” for getting with the hot older woman. This hot teacher trope is dangerous and vile. Thanks for speaking on it.
The double standard in those cases is crazy like boys/men can also be victims, I'm happy that we have more conversation around this because normalizing a women preying on a young boy is not ok and we see this way too often on TV, it's GROSS
I remember I pretty much stopped watching MTV when the video for Van Halen's "Hot For Teacher" came out. I couldn't help recoiling from it. I think another harm it causes is disrespect for female teachers, especially younger, prettier ones. They practically have to wear gunny sacks and greasy hair just to appear like they aren't trying to "tempt" anyone.
i got that part. i think the prev. commenter explained that it was named that way bc ppl perceived them thru that dynamic even if it's really a predator/victim complex instead@@katherineheasley6196
Ngl the trailer reminded me of 2 things: - Aaron Taylor Johnson and the video essay on his marriage - That SNL Skit where Pete Davidson plays a student who gets into a sexcapade and Kate McKinnon playing a distraught mom.
That's right. They're both adults with kids now but I still can't shake the horrified feelings for ATJ. That was sick. I don't care if they said they love each other now, but the fact that the woman really thought it was okay... can't wrap my head around it.
I still remember the weird storyline in "Degrassi" where Sav, a senior, develops a crush on new teacher Miss Oh. He makes a pass at her but she shuts him down. They later meet at a concert, in which Miss Oh tells Sav to drop the formalities and call her by her first name. Miss Oh and Sav then start dating, first in secret, then officially as soon as Sav graduates. It's a weird sympathetic take because "Degrassi" has had three OTHER storylines where teachers either hit on students or flat out date them, and they are always shown as complete monsters. The difference between those teachers, I guess, is that they were all men and in their mid thirties, whereas Miss Oh had stated that she was 25 when she started working at the school and Sav had just turned 18. Miss Oh tries at least once to say that the age difference is a big barrier, but Sav always shot that idea down saying seven years is nothing. I don't know why this story got a happy ending.
7 years is huge! Especially when you compare their situations, a high schooler living with their parents vs an adult who has completed college, has a full time job, lives independently, and has been entrusted with the care of minors.
And then he protected her by telling Simpson he made the story up! 😭 She got no repercussions, I liked Ms. Oh up until that now when I rewatch her image is tainted
Idk, it's happened before, and even in instances of the male teacher just having to switch districts. Its not so much the courts as it is public opinion of people who find one worse than the other, and that is what we need to change. I do think though that more and more younger generations are seeing victims of abuse and grooming as genderless. I think most people under the age of 40 understand abd would be as outraged no matter the sex of rhe victim. Sadly they're not the ones in charge of the courts
When I was in high school, which admittedly is a long time ago, a youngish male teacher had a 16 year old wife and baby. They had met when he was a teacher in her high school, whose population boundaries were contiguous with ours, so he didn’t even have to change districts. To this day I don’t think male teachers (not to mention youth pastors, sports coaches etc.) necessarily get in a lot of trouble for sexual offenses against students, female or male.
Riverdale has a double whammy of sexism and ageism. Not only is the teacher-student relationship depicted as some sort of epic forbidden romance, but Mrs. Grundy was 80-something in the original comics, NOT a hot mid-late 20s teacher.
Poor Villi. I remember this case as I was the same age as him and I felt so badly for what he went through. It's not romantic. I'm glad he could get his head clear and has a road to healing.❤
I’m ashamed to admit as a 12 year old; I truly thought it was love. As an adult, I’m disgusted that I ever thought that. He was just 12! Why was his name released?! Absolutely everyone failed him. I’m glad he is no longer under her control and has found love again, hopefully he can finally be happy and turn his life around. May December is exploiting his ordeal and although it’s not about vili and Mary it’s pretty damn close, vili deserves to be paid for his story.
I feel like older men (including teachers) abusing young women is similarly not taken seriously though. Pretty little liars was not too long ago with one of the most high profile and beloved couple being teacher student (and a teacher who serially dates underage students). I really don’t like it when pple say “if the tables were turned and the adult was a man he would be in so much trouble. I think the WAY blame is placed may be gendered but blame is consistently put on the victim.
I remember at the time that there was a lot of crazy reframing around Vili looking way more mature than his age, and that he was the pursuer/ aggressor and that this turned out to be a love story because they ended up together. They called it a relationship instead of grooming and assault It’s insane that the media and the judge took this marriage, and. we can see exactly how wrong that is today. Hopefully this brings Vili some closure and peace.
I kinda want to watch this movie now and hope it would be pivotal to debunking the Hot For Teacher trope. I always said that this trope is just a reflection of how misogynistic our society is and how misogyny also hurts boys/men. Because misogyny will always put women in a de-powered status that society has sexualized and objectified female predators. Like it’s truly disgusting how news media would sexualize attractive female predators by posting swimsuit photos or any attractive photo of the predators to evoke the Hot For Teacher trope. Like they are were objects for pleasure for boys and ignore the very real trauma these boys are put through to uphold patriarchy. Although, note that this doesn’t quite work if the female predator is not conventionally attractive then it’s taken seriously.
It is largely down to the activism of various feminist figures and groups that biased laws re. rape and sexual assault perpetrated by female predators exist in various places throughout the world, so by your logic feminist women who are "upholding patriarchy" and promoting misogyny?
That episode of Buffy has the teacher turned out to be a man eating centipede, so yeah, it doesn’t glorify that relationship and Xander brings it up a couple of times😒
We had a case here about 15 years ago in Scotland with a 30 year old female teacher having a relationship with a 16 year old male pupil. The sickest part is that the pupil's dad knew about and ENCOURAGED the relationship because he was also attracted to the teacher and was 'proud' of his son!
One important deviation "May December" took from the true story of the scandal in the '80s is the career the husband/victim followed. It's shockingly implausible that he could have attained a medical degree, much less pursued a practice leading to incredible wealth. How can a child, becoming a parent at 14, then go on to a successful medical career? How could the 36-year-old adult, who is likely facing many legal costs as well as family-court costs, just sink into the background as a loving stay-at-home mom? It's bizarre that this element isn't a part of the dramatic narrative of the film.
The one thing 'Gracie' said in the movie was that they had sold their wedding photos and that helped them pay for their house. I think that part of their finances were realistic. I remember Octomom saying she got 100K for the photo shoot she did for the octuplets first birthday. That is a lot of money for average people. If you think of the amount of interviewers that were willing to pay for their time that were available to them they definitely could have created a comfortable life with that money.
@@jenfoster128 Great points. Yeah, it would make sense the couple earned money from selling their wedding photos. It wouldn't pay for a medical degree (especially combined with the costs of having several young kids), but perhaps the cash-infusion helped them not land in a poverty cycle? Nevertheless, it's so, so tough for parents to try to get by without the support of family, especially financially (nepotism is a HUGE factor in landing high-earning jobs). I dunno, it still seems a weird omission in the story.
I watch a lot of anime and this trope is SO prevalent. When I have conversations with people who support it I always get major pushback that “I have no place to judge them” and “I’m pushing my morals onto them” The major problem with all of this is that it normalizes these tropes which can then translate to kids being more likely to not see the dangers if they’re put in these kinds of dangerous situations Like I always tell people who push back when I call out this problematic trope. It’s OUR job as adults in the community to educate and try to protect those who are younger and more susceptible. Because at the end of the day, even when I was a teenager, I didn’t see ANYTHING wrong with teacher/student relationships other than, it was an exciting secret relationship
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The scene where he confronts his abuser is so real the way, his voice trembles, and he struggles to get the words out. I really felt that.
Yes! And how she kept trying to shut him down. I hope he gets an award for that acting.
This scene made me nauseous and sick to the stomach, it was very good acting .. no one should ever go through this , how painful
❤
I saw the interview with them. Mary definitely groomed him and seemed controlling too.
The part that broke me was when he was on the roof with his son and he smoked weed for the first time. When he started crying because he wasn't sure if they were bonding or creating a bad memory, it tore me to shreds.
She is a pedophile. There wasn't a relationship. Everyone failed this child and it's beyond tragic.
Yes! I felt so sorry for him... His youth, his whole life was broken...
Another layer to the relationship between Mary and Vili that is not mentioned is race. Mary is a blonde hair white American woman, Vili is a native brown Samoan man. Although Vili was the innocent minor in the situation he was accused of being the cause for Mary’s sexual advances, which is what Jim Crow laws used to justify beating, lynching and burning black men just for making eye contact white women. If the tables were turned and this had be a non-white man making sexual advances to a white girl there would not have been a reduced sentence nor would the white girl had been blamed for the statutory rape. I noticed most Mary’s students were white, she was selective on who she preyed on.
100%!!!The adultification of BIPOC children is pervasive and unacceptable!
@@SmartStart24 Exactly, this was more than a case of child molestation it was a hate crime.
@@kadesmith3054it was a bit of both. He was preyed upon & molested bc of adultification based on his race. It was sick and wrong.
yep she went after this kid from a troubled home because she probably thought she wouldnt be caught so easily. if she went after one of the white kids she would be convicted so fast and so easily and be shown no leniency
I totally agreed, so sick of women always. Doing something like this. If a male teacher have done that, to his 12-year-old female student.
That man will never see the light of day and be called a rapist and a sick pervert.
In the 90s they said they were "In a relationship."
Its an amazing feeling to hear "She began sexually abusing him." Like we're in the real world.
More conversations need to be had surrounding young boys being violated. Too often I’m hearing “oh my first time was when I was 9, 11, etc by my babysitter” or any other girl they were in close proximity to. This is not cool, it is flat out r*pe!!!
True. My male friends way too often told me they lost their virginity at 13-15 to women who were 20-25 or something like that. Like that's really common.
@@DanaJaneWriterThat is so messed up. I feel so bad for the young male victims of this assault. It's honestly so disgusting and abusive my heart breaks.
A good deal of men dont see it that way-I'm not defending this in any way- Im just saying there needs to be a major societal shift @@thandondlovu5392
I was 13 when I got inappropriately touched by a woman. She passed by me, but not before she bent to touch my backside. She gave me the 🤫 gesture afterwards after I waved bye at her. Mild compared to others' cases, but still could've went further if we were alone.
This was in a Circuit City in 2008, in Bossier City. She was an employee, I was at the gaming aisle waiting for my parents to return something or whatever. I wanted to see her again after that. I finally told my mom about this about a year ago. It was somewhat repressed, partly because, at the time, absolutely no series/movie/PSA and nobody specifically taught me it was wrong for women to make sexual advancements towards the underaged, just men. Let alone little kids, as I was a small 13 year old, not these steroid-kids like today.
I've encountered some women and men whom, in discussions, try to convince me to not take this topic seriously, as if to protect predatory women, even though we have no idea how common they are behind unreliable numbers. This only made me more intent on uncovering more and using me being prey of a creepy woman as a drive to keep pushing. Especially with some projects I'm writing in which characters tackle that in ways we've never watched before, but all inspired by real cases. I hope to produce them independently.
Ugh one of my best friends was bragging he lost his virginity at 13 to an 18 y/o and it was so heartbreaking 💔
I do feel extremely sorry for young boys caught in situations like this. And when it comes to Vili, I know he has to be dealing with some complicated feelings when it comes to the trauma-bonding from that "relationship".
Plus what the media did to him was even worse. If they had any ethics they would have protected a child or adolescent victim instead of exploiting him.
@@FleurPillager10000% it was just as violating as what the teacher did to him. This fetish of hot teacher and school boy being played out in the media. Disgusting
The victim shaming Vili went through is horriifying, per usual survivors of sex abuse are never treated fairly. Mary Kay is a vile evil nasty person, there was something inherently sick about her, she should have been behind bars for life. Us as a society need to keep kids safer!!!
Mary Kay was a man, she would definitely be there. For at least 30 years.
@@Aaron-MackHartfordbrock turner didn't even get 3 months as he was a "promising young man", it's not consistent whether a rapist will be held accountable, but yes i agree a woman is less likely to get a sentence
I've never heard of this case and it's absolutely devastating. Nobody protected this boy. The fact that the abuse continued even after she was sentenced, and the fact that they got married... So much of his life was stolen from him
I watched May December yesterday and it was so tragic and utterly devastating. I felt so angry watching how he was abused and had his life stolen.
she was just the worst woman ever 😭 julianne was so good at being awful 😄 the actor playing the father /victim deserves an oscar! he floored me. made me sob. this movie is really well made in terms of showing the aftermath of such a situation , having to stay with your gr00mer. you could physically see he was carrying it all in his entire body. he was AMAZING.
it also was so disgusting how natalie's character would say that the kid they cast as him, wasn't s3xy enough. like he is a KID he is not supposed to be. and she even manipulated him to sleep with her. knowing full well he would like sneaking around, cause that's sort of the trauma loop he is already in. it was very gross. but si truthful to how people are. it breaks your heart.
I watched the film and I was so angry, disgusted, and saddened. I don’t understand how people can be so self-satisfied and smug while abusing and taking advantage of the vulnerable. Just horrifying. Makes me think twice about having kids of my own!
In 2021 there was this celebrated film called Licorice Pizza, and while it didn't have the "teacher" it did have an inappropriate relationship with a 15 year old and a 26-28 year old woman. And they made this relationship to be okay because she was emotionally immature mess, and he had his own business. I watched it and thought it was so gross, why wondered why they were romanticizing this? This movie got 3 Academy award nods including Picture and Director and I was mystified why people thought this was a good movie. Probably cuz it was Paul Thomas Anderson. SMH.
that age gap was so uncomfortable idk how people were tryna justify it
THAT'S what that movie's about? I thought it was just an indie coming of age film like portrayed in the trailer. Well now I know to avoid it, gross
The movie also takes place in the 70s
That poor boy was failed by everyone
The only defense I can get Riverdale for this is that Grundy absolutely does get comeuppance for this, by being fucking murdered, in the next season. However, it’s done more for shock and plot than it is to be like “yeah don’t diddle kids pls” like it should have been.
I have read a lot about Letourneau. I think it is clear that both of them cared about each other, but it wasnt a healthy relationship. I am deeply shocked that society left him as a single dad of 2 with No support as a teenager. They really failed him
I wish the video spoke more about the racial elements at play here. Black and Hispanic boys in America are often treated (and tried in court) as adults. Porn often has the cuck as an older white man and much younger fitter black man. This over sexualisation of men of colour to portray them as animalistic, sexual, savage, dangerous all plays into why white women in these situations get let off the hook even more.
I watched in theaters a french movie called "le consentement" it is such a powerful movie because you see all the abuse very clearly as a spectator of the "love story" between a 14 year old girl and a very famous french Author. The story is based on a book wrote by Vanessa Springora who was a victim of Gabriel Matzneff. Everyone knew about Matzneff's pedocriminal actions and nothing happened to him. He is still free today and has support.
yup, just like Roman Polanski
That scans for France
see now imagine if the roles were reversed, if a 34-36 year old man had an affair with a girl who is in the 7th grade, it would be a WHOLE different story. And she is over here saying "I didn't think it was a felony, but I knew it wasn't right", like it is not just a felony but that's literally sexual assault and pedophilia.
This is so sickening for multiple reasons. The trope is gross because it makes this abuse look attractive & "cool." Also, in a way, it's both kind of misogynistic & toxic to boys/men. To think that grown women are "so weak" that a 14yr old can seduce & abuse the adult is beyond disgusting. Adults know the lines & laws, regardless of gender. *If you as a teacher feel attracted to a child in your class, please quit teaching & get therapy ASAP! It is not right or natural.*
A child is a child & cannot make those decisions. MKL was a teacher, than she wants to play naive that she didn't know sexual abuse of a child was a felony is just absurd. We cannot keep candy coating female abusers.
If you watch those interviews with Letourneau, she gets a bit huffy at one point and repeatedly queries Vili like a machine gun, “WHO was the boss?” She does it as though to sway that he was the one in control, the one who initiated and she was merely reciprocating his advances.
Somewhere in her brain she didnt seem to realize that a 12 year old CHILD cannot give consent, even if he makes the “first move.” Some kids are sexualized prematurely and if they make such a move, it is a red flag. It is something an adult should see as a warning sign of potential abuse at home (or elsewhere), something they should gently and kindly dissuade and then something where they must seek help for that child.
Really good analysis. I see so many people commenting on this movie who didn’t understand the point. Everyone should have to watch your video after seeing it.
This is a story of both how the movie industry exploits real events without even talking to victims (Dahmer is a good example of this) and an example of an Abuser vs Victim dynamic. First time I've seen a boy/man being the victim of rape perpetrated by a woman I swear this film is a good double feature for the movie Happiness with Todd Solonz . This film MUST be seen by men who believe the phrase "women can't rape men" . Just cuz they can't penetrate dosent mean they can't violate.
People where sick for letting her get away with this? She went around town rubbing it in the laws face
I've heard enough male friends' stories on their first s*xual experience and they're almost always with a much older woman. They talked about it as if it was nothing but I felt devastated. We must protect our kids, boys and girls, from all types of predators. I just watched the movie and you could see how manipulative Julianne Moore's character is. The movie did show how this thing could ruin a bunch of people's lives. I hope the real boy and his kids stay strong, and their society doesn't shame them but instead protects them.
So we forgot the lifetime version
When the ages were read I had to pause to hork. Grew up during the 90s and kinda remember this but this help fill in the gaps.
I still fail to see how this film was meant to be a comedy-drama in any way.
These types of crimes happen in enabling environments, like at schools and disfunctional communities. When Fualaau's family sued the school for failing to protect him they lost. The court basically said she was guilty but he wasn't really a victim. This story was always all about her and her pretty face and childish mannner. Just like her, the court understood it was 'wrong' but didnt see much of a crime. She wasn't unusual, she was a product of her family and her community and the times. If anything, she must have been a little wilder than the average though
The series "teacher" on Hulu explores the dark side of this trope
I hate this double standard. It's so disgusting.
@The Take I work with autistic high school kids in an integrated highschool. I am very mindful of how I look or tease certain kids. What is nice can be interpreted as flirting. Also I've had MORE experiences with realizing teen girls were crushing on me more than wanting to talk about other boys. Honestly I never connected with the younger guy thing. It felt wrong when I dated someone my nieces age once. She told me she was uncomfortable with it and that was that.
I object to the clip from arrested development being used in this video! Lindsay was talking about the teacher becoming his stepmom! She thought he wanted a mom figure. She wasnt encouraging him to "go for it" with her!
Exactly!
Ever watch the BtVS episode 'I only have eyes for you'?
A Teacher too. That gutted me.
The fact that Elizabeth victimized Joe as well kinda ruins the movie.
She is saying she didn’t know that it was a felony or crime. If that is her excuse, how the heck did she have a job teaching children at all?!?!
It would have been her duty to report to the Principal at the school she worked at any interactions she considered concerning between her students and the adults in the students lives. Was she turning a blind eye to things?
And how would she feel, if that happened to her own child. Like how she did that to her 12-year-old student.
Because she had a child the same age, around her 12-year-old student.
I just don't understand Hollyweird. "Let's make a movie and get some money for showing how toxic it is that people want to be entertained by this thing we're making a film about."
I will say that Charles Melton's performance blew me away. Was not expecting that from him
I may be a weirdo, but I really hated this movie. Maybe because of where I live, the case was in my face. It was a tragedy. Re the film. I didn't find it funny at all either. Re the film -- I know the actors are excellent but I was floored they were even into being in it. It just lacked taste.. I know Haynes has made controversial films, but this one -- it just doesn't deserve the props it's getting. Shocked it got nominated for a golden globe. It just abuses Fulau even more and that is just grotesque. Plus MKL's adult kids have to see all the crap around the film too. It is awful.
Waiting in vain for clips of/a reference to the pretty brilliant Notes on a Scandal (2006)😕
She died in 2020? Bye girl ✌️
I do think though that more and more younger generations are seeing victims of abuse and grooming as genderless. I think most people under the age of 40 understand and would be as outraged no matter the sex of rhe victim. Sadly they're not the ones in charge of the courts or in law enforcement
This is like Yang Hyun Suk and Lee Eunjoo's relationship. Yang first caught a glimpse of her on TV when she was 12 years old ( and proceeded to keep lying about how old she was by aging her up when evidence of the relationship timeline is proven) when her famous older brother named Lee Jaejin of SECHSKIES in the first generation of Kpop was doing a house tour back in the early 2000s and started grooming her at 15 by promising her a musical career and sabotaged it when she was 20. Then he confessed his feelings for her when she 22 or 23? According to YG, she was his type "small, cute, and *young*" so he had motivations to marry her after from the start by purposely ignoring her group, Swi.T, waited until she was grown enough to marry her and right after her parents died. Even Yang apologized to her for "making her uncomfortable after all these years" as if that makes it any better and said she is free to take his kids with her on a variety TV show. So Yang was already self-aware how much he ruined her life.
Besides the abused child, I feel HORRIBLE for Mary's 4 other children! Just wow. Hope they are all doing okay.
Also her children with Vili. Imagine being the product of that and actually being raised by her and told what she did was okay because "love" and because the 12 year pursued her 😢
@@propogandalf for sure! The kids in this are the victims. And the reasoning 'they were in love' is disgusting. If she was SOOOOOOOO in love with this child why couldn't she wait? Is your 'love' so flimsy that waiting for the actual age of consent and for you to be single is unthinkable. Just gross.
@@dietdrpepper15 In reality it's because she wanted someone she can manipulate and control, not someone with a fully developed brain that realized she was a loser and that he had better, healthier age-appropriate options.
And honestly the children she had with the child. There are no winners here.
@@nravaei just all victims of this horrible woman, who “fell in love!!!” Bullcrap. I’d love can’t wait til someone is of age how real can it be?
This child/man was failed by everyone, his family, school and police. They should have got him right into intensive therapy so the the woman could not get her fangs in to him.
his family sued the school district! and they LOST!! I literally cannot wrap my head around it. I feel like we're missing out on the racial dynamics too tbh
Exactly! Send him out to an aunt’s or grandma outside of that town because there were obviously people helping them reach each other . what other way could they communicate with each other in the 90’s!
she was a predator and chose someone who didn't have that support system
even just being surrounded by people who know it's wrong can help
but you see whole communities enable or start a witch hunt against the victim
The tv trope is SO harmful because the “boy” is often portrayed by a full grown man. So often 16, 15, 14 year olds are played by man in their mid twenties. It masks the fact that in real life these victims are actual children who LOOK like actual children. The whole thing is even more disgusting than it seems
Exactly.
That's why i stopped watching riverdale. weird asf.
When Elizabeth was watching the audition tapes of actual 13 year olds I was sooo disturbed. Really put things in perspectives.
@@SmartStart24 When Natalie Portman character stated that none of the boys had "sex appeal"....like....wtf????🤮
That’s a great point
To give additional context, Vili is about to be a grandpa at 40 - but that's because his and Mary Kay's youngest, Georgia, is 24 and has been in a serious relationship for six years. Mary Kay really did steal Vili's youth from him.
I really hope that Vili can have a normal, healthy relationship with someone close in age to him, if he wants one. He deserves that.
That’s crazy a 40 year old grandpa 😬most of his peers have a middle schooler at the same age 😢
That’s insane! My older brother is only three years younger than him and he had his first child a year ago!
What I liked about the film was that I felt that we, as the audience, were meant to believe that Natalie Portman's character was an A-list actress and this movie she was about to star in was supposed to be this deepdive into the psyche of Gracie, and then in the end it turns out it was just another shallow capitalization of the story.
I feel like in the closing scene she couldn’t get the scene right, because of the last conversation she had with Gracie about her brothers and also because she realized she was playing a pedophile and it just all felt gross and insane.
Yup. That was the point. Noticed how overly sexual that scene was?
It was just another gross movie about a gross criminal. Just like the movies about serial killers.
@@blueberriestea yeah! This movie was so good because of all the subtext. I love pieces like this.
@@Purplenpinkk me too. it reminded me of the dahmer series debacle. Yknow how no one in the producer team asked the victims or their families about the mediatization of the hardships and trauma they had to go through because of dahmer yet they still filmed it just for profit. because true crime sells.
some people compare these fictional media based on real people to documentaries but they fail to understand how different they are. a documentary is not just letting people give CONSENT and real interviews but documentaries are not fictional either. it's not a reimagined version of a real event
@@blueberriestea so true!
There are so many men that have been abused by older women and because society frames it as “a win for a teenage boy.” Comedians make the joke “that they wish it was them” We as a society really need to change the narrative that it’s never ok for a teenager to have sexual relationships with an adult.
Yes you are right a teenager should never have a consensual sexual relationship with an adult I think society are focusing on age of consent because they will say that age of consent is 15 to 16 but normally it's supposed to be 18 with a young teenager that is is reaching maturity but sometimes I have realized the law doesn't always make sense age of consent is 15 but why not 18 because it is Young and society is very hypocritical when it's about age of consent
Males also do it it's sickening since they cry about men's mental health so ehy the hell do those who cry about men's mental health do athat as a win and blame society wen it's them not saying it's okay but I think men are their own worst enemy and oaf course predators women who take advantage of little boys sickening and gross and dose also need to be talked about it's sickening
@@yusukeGum If you notice the states with the lowest age of consent usually has the most rape/sexual crimes and many ppl in power are usually dating or with underaged girls. Plus around 15 and 16 ur more likely to get manipulated into thinking these types of relationships are ok.
Amazing how all these comments are written by women. Maybe let men speak for themselves.
Half of the comments have no identifying name or picture and you're simply assuming the sex of the person commenting. A man with half a brain would think the same thing. Wtf is even your issue here? Do you hate to see how women hold other woman accountable while men rarely do? It's just weird, and if you don't think that adults having sex with kids is morally repugnant then you know what that makes you.
I wish you had mentioned the FX series ‘A Teacher’ with Kate Mara. That show did a great job in showing how deeply toxic that kind of relationship is.
Yes! That ending was so raw and beautifully acted.
I was shocked how well the series was because the movie it was adapted from was not good at all despite being from the same writer-director
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll make sure to check it out when I have the chance.
I was surprised they didn’t mention this too, it’s such a good representation of the effects of sexual abuse on young men. I remember the episode where he’s in college and tells a girl he’s dating about his relationship with his teacher and she says “wow, so you were abused” and he kind of balks. It turns his entire world upside down, he couldn’t consent to that relationship and it kind of ruined his life, but because she was a hot young female teacher he didn’t feel like he could talk about the negative aspects because that dynamic is so fetishized.
The show honestly wasn't good. BUT the movie does a much better job. It shows just how much of a loser the teacher is.
Mary Kay Letourneau, like most predators, fixated on a child who was already going through an unstable and chaotic childhood at home. This is like a siren call for these people, they start by grooming children who are neglected under the guise of ‘helping’ them but really setting them up to be compliant to their disgusting ways. It’s reprehensible no matter how you look at it. There is nothing redeemable about her or predators like her.
Imagine being raped multiple times and everyone around telling you that you got lucky and should’ve been proud of it.
That's the plot of a south park episode
@@phoenixfunny4517 yes! I thought about that episode too
That only happens to boys
@@phoenixfunny4517or the snl skit with Pete Davidson
sorry to be a real debbie downer but this happens all the time to all kinds of rape victims and it hurts my spirit
I watched in horror how in one interview MKL turned to Villi and asked him, "Who was boss back then? Who was the boss?" as she clearly tried to shift blame to him. In a more candid moment during that same interview when he is alone, he admits that he wanted his 2 daughters to have 2 parents which is why he married her. MKL already had 4 children (1 the same age as Villi) meaning that she ended up victimizing 7 children due to her sick fantasies
I commented on that, too. It’s such a chilling point in the interview the way she rapid fires it at him repeatedly. He becomes so uncomfortable, too. It’s awful.
That part made my blood boil. The complete unapologetic attitude and blatant manipulation. What a terrible terrible woman she was.
She was sick. I can’t even fathom how there are people trying to justify this 🤢 look how tiny he was when he was in her class she r*ped that child
they replicate that scene somewhat in the movie. really chilling
As a 20-something y.o. teacher, I just don't understand how anyone over 19 can be attracted to teens...they're like tall children.
Same!! They're immature, they're a little gross, they are often so innocent and lost. It makes me sick to my stomach that anyone would engage with children that way.
@@basicradical3581 I think that when it comes to fiction (definitely NOT reality) people write these stories most of the time because they try to remember themselves as teens. I thought that at 16-18 I was basically an adult! So my first day of teaching high school I was *shocked* at how they were nowhere near being adults... Most people after high school have no opportunity to interact with teens until they have children, so they don't get this cold shower of "Oh...you're not an adult until 27!"
Agreed I'm 21 and I couldn't imagine dating anyone in their Teens.
That's the point.
It’s the power dynamic
I was groomed as a 15 year old by a 36 year old man, I really didn't know what affects it would have on me as a grown up. For several years you believe there are no effects, I also convinced myself that it was not that strange and that love knows no bounds. Now that I am 36 years old, reflecting back on my past....I can see how wrong it was and without the right support and therapy it can cause oneself to create resentment, guilt, and isolation. The part about stunting your developmental growth I believe is true. I had to grow up very fast but at the same time I can recognize in myself that I do not have the same emotional intelligence that one would expect at my age. When I tried to talk about the past with the man, now 57,, he always told me it was my fault and that I didn't have a problem with it at the time, but now as a grown woman I could never see myself doing the same thing to a 15 year old child. Anyways, the stories that surround this topic make me think a lot and I am a firm believer that the power dynamics are a very valid issue in these type of relationships, complicated in nature, and leave lasting impacts in people's lives, sometimes impacts that aren't fully felt or understand until a decade later.
I hope you find peace, good luck, wishing you the best 🫶🫶
Thank you for your kind words@@summerm4911
I have the same experience but haven't been able to touch the subject in so long. Thank you for sharing, I need to confront it too. God bless you *-*
I feel like society was way too easy on this woman. They looked at her like she was mentally ill, and there was something wrong with her in her head but if it was a man, she would’ve been in jail for the rest of her life, I mean, it’s obvious that when it comes to men being exploited sexually, they’re always overlooked.
I agree with you on the first part, society was wayyy too easy on this creepy predatory woman!
However, one quick look at the statistics assures us that men usually also don't go to prison for life when commiting such crimes.
Agreed!
@@konpulsiv I don’t think he would’ve been put in Jail for life, but there would’ve definitely been more of a side eye and jeering attitudes. They definitely treated Letourneau like a little wounded bird more than anything.
@@konpulsiv There are several countries in which women literally cannot be charged with rape, and across the board receive more lenient treatment in the criminal justice system, so female predators are absolutely flying under the radar and getting away with it more by comparison.
"Published...only in France" with a deep voice to show the DEEP irony that of course only in France would this book be published and promoted is - fantastic.
I'm french and this is incredibly fucked up. Thank "god" some very talented authors are changing the discourse now here.
@capucnechaussonpassion14 Did I miss something beneath the uptight American view on how we as Europeans especially the French are dealing with our/ their sexuality? Almost everything sex related seems to be perverted in the US so no surprise that they assume child abuse is supposed to to be viewed as normal in europe.
@@mibri8552 We have a rape culture problem in France, as well as incest especially in créative elites classes that are treated as "romantique" and seen as part of the french charm.
France is the unofficial haven for rapists and nonces of all sorts, Kevin Spacey, Polanski.
Famous writers whole serial abusers and groomers who brag about It live on TV (Gabriel Matzneff), Duhamel who abused his step kids, PPDA who raped multiple internes under TF1 cover, Morandini who sexually coerced over 20 young boys, only to get 1 year probatory.
Hell our interior minister is twice accused of rape and our president Macron, was by all accounts, groomed by the first lady(He was 15, She was 40).
Nothing changed, people are speaking UP more.
Américain puritanisme is the opposite side of french laissez faire.
I'm European buddy and living in the Netherlands - big swing and a miss. @@mibri8552
There are also quite a few French movies on minor - adult relationships, even incestuous ones ("Beau Père" for example). I'm not saying this kind of thing is seen as acceptable in France but they sure love to explore the taboo subjects. Oh and the president married his former teacher hahahaha
Just wanted to say hi from France, you know that country where our reigning president married the teacher he met when he was 15 and she was 39…
I just commented something similar....!
WHAT?!
@@youknowyouwilldespisethis7118I had no idea either
That’s good nothing wrong with that
He was 8 years old when she first taught him in year 2. She may have been grooming him earlier than he even realised. They say that paedophiles often see something lacking in the child missing some affection or attention. He may have been even more vulnerable than his peers.
not to mention him being a person of color too. the racial aspect of the situation along with him being male makes it disgustingly easier for people to deny his victimhood
I'm not gonna lie - when I was a young boy, in high school, I would fantasize about sleeping with my hot female history teacher. But as an older man, with a family, and who even teaches, looking back I'm thankful nothing like that happened. There's absolutely NO way a teenage boy can even begin to understand the psychological consequences of such a thing, or handle the responsibility of an adult sexual/emotional relationship. Hell, we're still too stupid at that age to understand consequences, period.
True and the victim of this crime was not even in high school yet. He was 12 or 13.
Even worse! He was barely out of adolescence. @@FleurPillager
@@Andyanddiana467 He was 12, barely an adolescent. More like a child.
This gets worse the more I learn@@FleurPillager
it's normal for children to have crushes on adults they admire... and it's an adult's responsibility to treat children like children no mater what.
A teacher did a really great job showing the longterm effects of older female to young male abuse. We see fully the immaturity of the character in their sex lives, the effects on his relationships with intimacy, the way he is fetishized by other girls and boys because of it, and the longterm trauma it took on his adult life.
The trope is both mysandrist and mysogynistic. Its mysandrist because it refuses boys and men who experience this victimhood and innocents, its mysogynistic because it treats women like clueless children, unable to discern right from wrong. Whats also interesting is youd expect women to be writers of this trope, but its usually men. Most in the past men that hadnt experienced this seem to romatizise this behavior. That, thankfully has changed but I find mostly men defending this behavior. Its the lack of empathy and this loyalty to the patriarchy, where sex is about power and a male ALWAYS is the one with power. Theres no intersectional analyisis being made.
Grown adults need to leave children be, its just that simple.
This comment really needs to be pinned 👏
You got it exactly right. This is one of those things that's fucked up in all directions, not just in the direction of misogyny OR misandry.
Wow BINGO. Let me add, it's also abused men who refused to admit they are f*cked up/victims from the situation, so they push the trope that he wanted it/he was horny/she was vulnerable/submissive to attempt to empower and gain control of their abuse.
Men seem to fall apart a lot worse then we do if sexually abused, from my personal experience(via work) and knowledge (research).
Women generally thrive under victimhood (fat shaming, sexism, gender pay gap etc) and there's this unsaid rule in a society that refuses to hold us accountable for ANYTHING we do; it's ALWAYS the mans fault.
Men generally thrive under survivor-hood (Owns it, Fought back, Take no prisoners, Gets his own way to the top etc) and there's this unsaid rule in a society that refuses to empathise with men if they FAIL; he didn't step up to the plate as a husband or he couldn't hack the pressure so he went bankrupt.
It's a vicious circle because we're fighting the human action to be compassionate to each other with political point scoring.
So a woman raped a boy but in the end, the woman is the true victim because “misogyny”. Thanks for the enlightenment😂
@nont18411 I am begging you to re read this comment. how can you be so bad at interpreting
There's no way this woman would be looked at sympathetically if she wasn't a blond white woman. She abused & violated a 12 year old child. 🙄
If she was a man, she definitely wouldn’t get any sympathy. If this was in gender reversed.
My sister was friends with Mary Kay and my niece was friends with her daughters with Vili Fualaau. My sister said she didn't want to hear anything bad against her and I thought to myself "You're an idiot!". She's also an Anti-vaxxer. My sister and I are not close.
I think she was very manipulative and took great care on how she looked from the outside. In the footage of hers, shown in this video, she always seems very charming (in the interviews). Your sister fell for her. (I'm not defending your sister, tho)
Early in the series Buffy The Vampire Slayer, there's an episode called "Teacher's Pet" where a highly seductive teacher is constantly flirting with Xander. When Buffy challenges what's going on, Xander accuses her of jealousy. He accepts "Ms French's" invitation to her house for drinks. Being BTVS, "Ms French" is a kind of succubus who, in order to procreate, selects virgins to mate with, but she becomes a giant preying mantis who decapitates her stud once she gets what she needs. However, the story does frame the teacher-student relationship as one with boundaries that shouldn't be crossed. The fact that "Ms French" (I use quite marks because the monster is using the identity of an actual teacher, albeit one who is much older than "Ms French") seduces virgins is part of the lesson for the audience.
Yeah, it felt a bit weird to have the Buffy clips sprinkled in there alongside Dawson's Creek and Riverdale. The whole point of that episode was that the seductive teacher is someone who preys on and victimizes young boys, and it came out in what, 1998?
Buffy is awesome
There was a really good episode of the podcast "This is Really Happening" that dealt with a young boy being abused by his babysitter at a young age. It was horrible and you really understood how badly it hurt and traumatized him. I wish more people would understand how harmful this kind of sexual abuse can be for children. Also Pop Culture Detective did a really great episode more broadly on male rape played for laughs. It's the same idea that we should question why Hollywood makes light of sexual abuse against men.
Do you know what episode it was?
Poor guy. He never stood a chance. It’s so hard to leave abusers when you’re so young I feel so bad that he was bullied, and that he was continuously, abused in his adult life with her.
not just the over sexualisation of boys but also infantalisation of grown women is the reason why the accountability isnt fully put on the female adult.... seeing women as emotional creatures while men as logical and if he is logical and wanted it then it must be justified
I hate that they called it "May December" which is usually a name for an age gap relationship. A legit age gap RELATIONSHIP, not the rape of a minor by an adult woman...😢
But it makes sense! A lot of these age gap relationship are based on grooming and abuse.
@@ЕкатеринаАн-у3б nope, they aren't. These are no "age-gap relationships". Also, you are just trying to fulfill your own bias...
I think a theory worth mentioning (I haven’t seen it in the comments already) is that May December is to represent two things. 1st it’s original meaning of a romantic relationship between two with a big age gap, BUT ALSO to point out the age gap between Gracie and Portman’s character. Gracie is at the “winter age” and Portman is at the “spring age”… but they are one and the same. I think the real shadowing here is that Portman is the early stage of being like Gracie. You can see this in the way she describes getting off during sex scenes and then her fully diving into the final scene with the young boy. You can see her try to do her makeup like Gracie. When she is walking through the school you can see her blushing at the teenagers and thinking she is their center of attention. Portmans character is the spring to Gracie’s winter..
I’ve had to explain to so many men that they were abused by teachers, babysitters,etc. They truly believe that they were in control and were “that dude” for getting with the hot older woman. This hot teacher trope is dangerous and vile. Thanks for speaking on it.
The double standard in those cases is crazy like boys/men can also be victims, I'm happy that we have more conversation around this because normalizing a women preying on a young boy is not ok and we see this way too often on TV, it's GROSS
I remember I pretty much stopped watching MTV when the video for Van Halen's "Hot For Teacher" came out. I couldn't help recoiling from it.
I think another harm it causes is disrespect for female teachers, especially younger, prettier ones. They practically have to wear gunny sacks and greasy hair just to appear like they aren't trying to "tempt" anyone.
is may-december the right trope for this? may-december romance is for adults, not 30 something teachers sexually assaulting their teenage students.
The title is meant to be like that because it is how the public perceives the couple in the film.
It's the title of the movie they're discussing.
i got that part. i think the prev. commenter explained that it was named that way bc ppl perceived them thru that dynamic even if it's really a predator/victim complex instead@@katherineheasley6196
Ngl the trailer reminded me of 2 things:
- Aaron Taylor Johnson and the video essay on his marriage
- That SNL Skit where Pete Davidson plays a student who gets into a sexcapade and Kate McKinnon playing a distraught mom.
I think they might be trying to normalize or whitewash crimes against children and adolescents.
That skit was hilarious. 😂
That's right. They're both adults with kids now but I still can't shake the horrified feelings for ATJ. That was sick. I don't care if they said they love each other now, but the fact that the woman really thought it was okay... can't wrap my head around it.
I still remember the weird storyline in "Degrassi" where Sav, a senior, develops a crush on new teacher Miss Oh. He makes a pass at her but she shuts him down. They later meet at a concert, in which Miss Oh tells Sav to drop the formalities and call her by her first name. Miss Oh and Sav then start dating, first in secret, then officially as soon as Sav graduates. It's a weird sympathetic take because "Degrassi" has had three OTHER storylines where teachers either hit on students or flat out date them, and they are always shown as complete monsters. The difference between those teachers, I guess, is that they were all men and in their mid thirties, whereas Miss Oh had stated that she was 25 when she started working at the school and Sav had just turned 18. Miss Oh tries at least once to say that the age difference is a big barrier, but Sav always shot that idea down saying seven years is nothing. I don't know why this story got a happy ending.
7 years is huge! Especially when you compare their situations, a high schooler living with their parents vs an adult who has completed college, has a full time job, lives independently, and has been entrusted with the care of minors.
And then he protected her by telling Simpson he made the story up! 😭 She got no repercussions, I liked Ms. Oh up until that now when I rewatch her image is tainted
If this was a male teacher with a 13 year old girl or boy, there is no way they would spend only 6 months in jail.
It has happened tho sadly
Facts
Idk, it's happened before, and even in instances of the male teacher just having to switch districts. Its not so much the courts as it is public opinion of people who find one worse than the other, and that is what we need to change.
I do think though that more and more younger generations are seeing victims of abuse and grooming as genderless. I think most people under the age of 40 understand abd would be as outraged no matter the sex of rhe victim. Sadly they're not the ones in charge of the courts
Victor Salva only spent a year and a half in jail so it does happen unfortunately.
When I was in high school, which admittedly is a long time ago, a youngish male teacher had a 16 year old wife and baby. They had met when he was a teacher in her high school, whose population boundaries were contiguous with ours, so he didn’t even have to change districts. To this day I don’t think male teachers (not to mention youth pastors, sports coaches etc.) necessarily get in a lot of trouble for sexual offenses against students, female or male.
it’s so amazing to charles melton branching out of riverdale.
I think the post-Riverdale work that cast are doing really proves that Riverdale was a cast of great actors trapped in hell together
@@alexgilmour3907 literally! they all hated that show so badddd
Abuse doesn’t discriminate age. Only people do.
What?
This is a double standard that also should be eradicated. It's abuse period.
I didn't know it was a felony?!?! Gurl!!!! The boy in question probably didn't even have public hair yet. I need to barf.
Riverdale has a double whammy of sexism and ageism. Not only is the teacher-student relationship depicted as some sort of epic forbidden romance, but Mrs. Grundy was 80-something in the original comics, NOT a hot mid-late 20s teacher.
You don't have to be Attractive to be a pedophile. Meaning anyone can be a monster. Regardless of how they look like.
No cause pretty little liars was the WORST FOR THIS
There were so many real life cases like these back in the 90s
I don't know if this is the one I remember or another one
This was THE big one. I’m sure if you remember even one big “ripped from the headlines” story from the 90’s, it’s this one.
There are more abuse by female teachers at this moment, then abuse by male teachers and priest put together.
In the “Arrested Development” scene you showed, Lindsay thinks that George Michael says that he wants Ms. Barely as his mom, NOT his lover.
Poor Villi. I remember this case as I was the same age as him and I felt so badly for what he went through. It's not romantic. I'm glad he could get his head clear and has a road to healing.❤
I’m ashamed to admit as a 12 year old; I truly thought it was love. As an adult, I’m disgusted that I ever thought that. He was just 12! Why was his name released?! Absolutely everyone failed him. I’m glad he is no longer under her control and has found love again, hopefully he can finally be happy and turn his life around. May December is exploiting his ordeal and although it’s not about vili and Mary it’s pretty damn close, vili deserves to be paid for his story.
I feel like older men (including teachers) abusing young women is similarly not taken seriously though. Pretty little liars was not too long ago with one of the most high profile and beloved couple being teacher student (and a teacher who serially dates underage students). I really don’t like it when pple say “if the tables were turned and the adult was a man he would be in so much trouble. I think the WAY blame is placed may be gendered but blame is consistently put on the victim.
I forgot he was that young. Crazy!
I remember at the time that there was a lot of crazy reframing around Vili looking way more mature than his age, and that he was the pursuer/ aggressor and that this turned out to be a love story because they ended up together. They called it a relationship instead of grooming and assault It’s insane that the media and the judge took this marriage, and. we can see exactly how wrong that is today. Hopefully this brings Vili some closure and peace.
How did you make this entire video without referencing SOUTH PARK? They lampooned this trope perfectly.
I kinda want to watch this movie now and hope it would be pivotal to debunking the Hot For Teacher trope.
I always said that this trope is just a reflection of how misogynistic our society is and how misogyny also hurts boys/men. Because misogyny will always put women in a de-powered status that society has sexualized and objectified female predators. Like it’s truly disgusting how news media would sexualize attractive female predators by posting swimsuit photos or any attractive photo of the predators to evoke the Hot For Teacher trope. Like they are were objects for pleasure for boys and ignore the very real trauma these boys are put through to uphold patriarchy.
Although, note that this doesn’t quite work if the female predator is not conventionally attractive then it’s taken seriously.
In the movie she’s not a teacher, maybe they changed that as to not further promote the idea of “hot teacher”.
It is largely down to the activism of various feminist figures and groups that biased laws re. rape and sexual assault perpetrated by female predators exist in various places throughout the world, so by your logic feminist women who are "upholding patriarchy" and promoting misogyny?
That episode of Buffy has the teacher turned out to be a man eating centipede, so yeah, it doesn’t glorify that relationship and Xander brings it up a couple of times😒
I love how the movie's details from real life references. "Whos the boss" line from an interview and the photos. It was amazing
The title of the film is misleading. It implies relationship with age difference between adults.
I think that’s on purpose. It’s what Julianne Moore’s character thinks, but we as the audience know is not okay.
Dude the actor of Joe is talented as fuck, holy shit, he was the star of the movie, i really hope he gets to work on alot of projects
We had a case here about 15 years ago in Scotland with a 30 year old female teacher having a relationship with a 16 year old male pupil. The sickest part is that the pupil's dad knew about and ENCOURAGED the relationship because he was also attracted to the teacher and was 'proud' of his son!
🤮🤮
She stole his life, groomed him abused him.. she never should’ve been released!!!!
One important deviation "May December" took from the true story of the scandal in the '80s is the career the husband/victim followed. It's shockingly implausible that he could have attained a medical degree, much less pursued a practice leading to incredible wealth.
How can a child, becoming a parent at 14, then go on to a successful medical career? How could the 36-year-old adult, who is likely facing many legal costs as well as family-court costs, just sink into the background as a loving stay-at-home mom?
It's bizarre that this element isn't a part of the dramatic narrative of the film.
The one thing 'Gracie' said in the movie was that they had sold their wedding photos and that helped them pay for their house. I think that part of their finances were realistic. I remember Octomom saying she got 100K for the photo shoot she did for the octuplets first birthday. That is a lot of money for average people. If you think of the amount of interviewers that were willing to pay for their time that were available to them they definitely could have created a comfortable life with that money.
@@jenfoster128 Great points. Yeah, it would make sense the couple earned money from selling their wedding photos. It wouldn't pay for a medical degree (especially combined with the costs of having several young kids), but perhaps the cash-infusion helped them not land in a poverty cycle?
Nevertheless, it's so, so tough for parents to try to get by without the support of family, especially financially (nepotism is a HUGE factor in landing high-earning jobs).
I dunno, it still seems a weird omission in the story.
I watch a lot of anime and this trope is SO prevalent. When I have conversations with people who support it I always get major pushback that “I have no place to judge them” and “I’m pushing my morals onto them”
The major problem with all of this is that it normalizes these tropes which can then translate to kids being more likely to not see the dangers if they’re put in these kinds of dangerous situations
Like I always tell people who push back when I call out this problematic trope. It’s OUR job as adults in the community to educate and try to protect those who are younger and more susceptible. Because at the end of the day, even when I was a teenager, I didn’t see ANYTHING wrong with teacher/student relationships other than, it was an exciting secret relationship